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November 22, 2010 1:38 PM   Subscribe

If you thought fanbase reaction to The Last Airbender was negative, you ain't seen nothing yet. Warner Bros has announced a Buffy reboot with no involvement from Joss Whedon. There's an interview with the screenwriter here.

Comments on both the linked articles as well as other sites, both general and fan-specific are trending negatively.

On the other hand, why not read some recaps by TV critics who are watching the show for the first time? The AV Club and Cultural Learnings both have ongoing series catching up on Buffy and Angel.
posted by kmz (227 comments total) 10 users marked this as a favorite

 
From Beneath You It Devours...
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:41 PM on November 22, 2010 [7 favorites]


Oh, HELL NO.

Weirdly, I never noticed that the AV Club was "catching up" on the series. I'm just starting the 3rd season. Once you can get over the hump of the awful, awful first season (even by the usual "Joss was having a bad hair day" standards), it's pretty great.
posted by schmod at 1:41 PM on November 22, 2010


So let me get this straight. A writer (who has never written a screenplay before, unless I'm mistaken) decides that she wants to reboot a series (that is FANATICALLY loved by fans, and in fact still has ongoing canon) that she loves. So she writes a fanfic script that is then picked up by a studio that jumps aboard, without consulting the original creator? She then compares her script to Nolan's reboot of the Batman series?

I don't see how this could possibly go wrong.
posted by specialagentwebb at 1:42 PM on November 22, 2010 [18 favorites]


Hey, W&B, they already made a re-imagining of Buffy. It was called Buffy The Vampire Slayer and it came out in 1992.

Meanwhile, I don't know where else to tell this story but I used to work a few storefronts down from one of the biggest indie movie theaters in New York City (the IFC) The second biggest line I had ever seen outside of it -- a line stretching nearly to the end of the block -- was for the premier of Crispin Glover's It Is Fine! Everything Is Fine (featuring a Q&A w/ Mr. Glover after the screening)

The biggest line? A screening of "Once More With Feeling." It was probably twice as long as and ten times as sheerly excited the Glover one.
posted by griphus at 1:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [5 favorites]


Not your High School Buffy huh? We have no idea what that could mean, soccer Mom Buffy? Space Cadet Buffy? College drop-out Buffy? (Oh no wait, we had that once already). We're not sure what to think.

Strung out on heroin Buffy, unemployed Buffy, Buffy vs. Predator, Hobo Buffy, Mafia Boss Buffy, Ernest meets Buffy, Baby Geniuses 3: Vampire Babies vs Buffy
posted by Mister Fabulous at 1:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


The reaction to The Last Airbender was negative because they cast too many white people and made a terrible movie. The Buffy reboot may be good, Whedon or not, nobody knows at this point.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [5 favorites]


I, for one, am excited to stand aloof and apart from all you nerds and pretend that this doesn't offend me, while inside I rage and rage and rage
posted by Think_Long at 1:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [22 favorites]


I bet they give it the whole Twilight treatment. It will be so fucking sparkly you will need sunglasses to watch it and not go blind.
posted by Iosephus at 1:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


I eat the cheese, the cheese doesn't eat me.
posted by fight or flight at 1:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [16 favorites]


I've got to go to my happy place happy place happy place....
posted by The Whelk at 1:46 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Heh. Well, it's difficult to see the 1992 film as any kind of sacrosanct work of art... on the other hand, it's diffciult to see any point to this.
posted by Artw at 1:46 PM on November 22, 2010


WHERE IS FRAY MOVIE GIVE US FRAY MUST FILM FRAY
posted by ricochet biscuit at 1:49 PM on November 22, 2010 [9 favorites]


It's as if as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.

In other words, we wish WE COULD HATE YOU TO DEATH.
posted by lumpenprole at 1:49 PM on November 22, 2010 [7 favorites]


From Beneath You It Devours...

I think you meant "It eats you starting with your bottom."
posted by NoraReed at 1:49 PM on November 22, 2010 [11 favorites]


WHAT
posted by ourobouros at 1:50 PM on November 22, 2010


Wait you guys, maybe this is finally the proof we needed that we're in the EVIL alternate dimension and just have to break the wishing stone.
posted by The Whelk at 1:51 PM on November 22, 2010 [11 favorites]


Well, it's difficult to see the 1992 film as any kind of sacrosanct work of art...

Oh, I don't think anybody cares about the 1992 film. If anything, part of the anger is aimed at the Kuzuis who produced and by most accounts ruined the original movie and cashed in on the TV shows despite having no part in making the shows. Now they're cashing in on the character again.
posted by kmz at 1:51 PM on November 22, 2010 [5 favorites]


I'd be all offended and stuff if I'd ever seen the original. I like Firefly and Dollhouse but never got around to going back and watching Buffy.
posted by octothorpe at 1:52 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh god this is really real? I heard about this a while back but I was in an insane asylum and my dead mom and my absentee father were there telling me this was a figment of my imagination. Seriously.
posted by hecho de la basura at 1:54 PM on November 22, 2010 [23 favorites]


I mean, whatever, it's just a TV comedy series. It's a good one, but we aren't exactly talking about scripture. And Joss Whedon just doesn't seem to know how to make a decent big budget movie.
posted by empath at 1:54 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Eh, they'll hire Whedon at the last minute to punch it up and it will still suck.
posted by cjorgensen at 1:55 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


The producer, Charles Roven, also told the Times that he hopes to see the film reach theaters in 2012 or perhaps even 2011.

OK right now I'm thinking of that Fantastic Four film that got made for pennies and then instantly shelved so the studio could retain the rights. Do WB have some deadline to make something of the IP before it lapses?
posted by permafrost at 1:55 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Not your High School Buffy huh? We have no idea what that could mean, soccer Mom Buffy?
To be fair, A Whedon-helmed movie starring SMG as a soccer-mom Buffy? Yeah. I'm there.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:56 PM on November 22, 2010 [11 favorites]


Is there some way I can blame this on Russel T. Davies?
posted by juiceCake at 1:56 PM on November 22, 2010 [9 favorites]


First, TelevisionWithoutPity's recap collection, with bonus links to Hulu's Buffy content (seems to be mostly 2nd season).

Second, they want this out by 2011 or 2012? Seriously? Films made in that time frame usually end up being produced for SyFy Channel, nestled between ever larger mutant carnivores and three way natural disasters.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:57 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Wait you guys, maybe this is finally the proof we needed that we're in the EVIL alternate dimension and just have to break the wishing stone.

It may be green and affixed to your lapel.
posted by shakespeherian at 1:57 PM on November 22, 2010


I love Buffy and all, but we had seven seasons of Joss Whedon. They were great. The man told the story he wanted to tell. I don't see any reason to get up in arms about someone with a compelling new angle getting her teeth into the world and making it something slightly different. I mean, sure, this could go either way at this point. But let's not waste all our GRAR and then look the fool when it turns out to be good.
posted by lholladay at 1:57 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


Why not give Whedon an executive producer credit (and some hush money) just to keep the fans from their (totally predictable) negative assessment (which could derail the project very early on).
posted by oddman at 1:57 PM on November 22, 2010


I mean, whatever, it's just a TV comedy series. It's a good one, but we aren't exactly talking about scripture. And Joss Whedon just doesn't seem to know how to make a decent big budget movie.

Three sentences. Three lies. You're batting three for three empath!

I'm really not as angry as I seem!
posted by Think_Long at 1:58 PM on November 22, 2010 [8 favorites]


tled between ever larger mutant carnivores and three way natural disasters

Personally, I would pay good money to see Buffy vs. Mega Crocosharktopus. Ten bucks on the blond.
posted by fight or flight at 1:58 PM on November 22, 2010 [8 favorites]


My understanding is that the rebooted Buffy will be a sort of vessel for the spirits of slayers past, each episode her young human frame inhabited by a different personality as she lives every possible life...except for her own.

That or she'll be a space cowboy.
posted by cortex at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2010 [5 favorites]


...Mob doctor Buffy, 12th century Hohenzollern Buffy, bowling tournament Buffy, geology buff Buffy, Minnesota Educational Computing Consortium programmer Buffy, half-hearted vegetarian Buffy, prescriptivist linguist Buffy...
posted by Iridic at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2010 [14 favorites]


I bet they give it the whole Twilight treatment.

Does that mean Buffy will have Taylor Lautner abs?
posted by blucevalo at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


BTW, hope I'm not contributing too much to my own thread, but from what I'm reading, because Warner Bros optioned the rights from the Kuzuis, they only have rights to the movie characters, so only Buffy would be allowed to be used from the TV show.
posted by kmz at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2010


Speak not the unclean thing.
posted by pointystick at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Why so serious? This won't damage my enjoyment of the TV series anymore than Jackson's LOTR movies made me re-evaluate my initial reactions to the 1980 Return Of The King animated special.

C'mon! Couldn't Jackson have just included some of the musical numbers? Like 'Where There's A Whip, There's A Way?" It would have been all like Lord of the Glee
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2010 [6 favorites]


Oh, I don't think anybody cares about the 1992 film. If anything, part of the anger is aimed at the Kuzuis who produced and by most accounts ruined the original movie and cashed in on the TV shows despite having no part in making the shows. Now they're cashing in on the character again.

Yeah, I seem to recall reading some interview with Whedon (possibly linked here on MeFi) where he talked about how far removed the 1992 movie ended from his original vision, and how the TV series was his attempt to bring the character back in line with his vision. Which makes this reboot seem....odd, to say the least.

I really am much more Firefly fan than a Buffy fan, but I still think this enterprise seems pointless, and I can't imagine any of my friends who are hardcore Buffy fans being at all happy about this. Who do they think is going to see this movie?
posted by DiscourseMarker at 1:59 PM on November 22, 2010


They obviously don't know the fundamental law of cult projects:

Never fuck with something that nerds love.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2010 [8 favorites]


lholladay: "But let's not waste all our GRAR and then look the fool when it turns out to be good."

I don't consider this a waste of GRAR. Instead, it feels like a high-yield GRAR investment. Yes, the movie might be good, and I might lose this amount of GRAR. But if it's bad, then I get a huge return on my initial GRAR.
posted by specialagentwebb at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2010 [48 favorites]


I've got a theory ... Some kid is dreaming... and we're all caught up in his wacky Broadway nightmare...
posted by Skwirl at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2010 [18 favorites]


what the fuck
posted by elizardbits at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2010


Hey wait, so Joss Whedon doesn't own the legal rights to Buffy? Like, we could make our own version of the story?
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:00 PM on November 22, 2010


...Actually a series that followed a different Slayer, different eras, etc each season ...could work.
posted by The Whelk at 2:02 PM on November 22, 2010


But it would be like Slayer Who.
posted by The Whelk at 2:02 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


I appreciate the comparison you were trying to make, and I'm sure Buffy fans' concerns are justified, but there is no conceivable way a studio could fuck up a Buffy movie to the degree that Paramount and Shyamalan fucked up the Airbender adaptation.
posted by pts at 2:02 PM on November 22, 2010 [6 favorites]


actually wait a second (grabs green lapel stone, makes wish)
posted by The Whelk at 2:03 PM on November 22, 2010


The Buffy reboot may be good, Whedon or not, nobody knows at this point.

You are technically correct, but the odds seem stacked pretty heavily against it. Joss Whedon is associated with his works by his fanbase to a degree that few other creators are. As well, they are looking at redoing a show that had not much wrong with it in the first place.

Seven years ago, Mefites had mixed reactions but many seemed to feel there was scope for cautious optimism with rebooting Battlestar Galactica, and that worked out okay on balance. And it seems the less Gene Roddenberry had direct input on Star Trek, the more room it had to succeed (and occasionally fail spectacularly). But this... I dunno. This would be like rebooting The Sopranos or Six Feet Under with an entirely new cast and creative team. I suppose you could, but what would be the point?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:04 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


this is not your high school Buffy

Yeah, what? I mean, what? The whole point of "Buffy" is that she's a spoiled high school Valley Girl (with a Valley Girl name) put in the most incongruous of circumstances. What's the point of the story without that?

Actually, all other considerations aside, the whole "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" name isn't even funny anymore, because it's such a late-eighties/early-nineties valleygirl joke. Nobody has trust-fund names like Buffy and Muffy and Preston and so forth anymore, do they?
posted by Gator at 2:04 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


based on what's considered "hot" in pop culture today, it'll be Tea Party Buffy staking Libtards starring Bristol Palin.
posted by oneswellfoop at 2:04 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


But it would be like Slayer Who.

I'd watch this. Each one could have a different umbrella.
posted by ZeusHumms at 2:04 PM on November 22, 2010


Hey wait, so Joss Whedon doesn't own the legal rights to Buffy?

I would assume Warner Bros owns it.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:07 PM on November 22, 2010


The man told the story he wanted to tell.

Um... he's still telling it. Buffy Season 8 is being done in comic form, and Angel had his own post season 5 comic series - they've now intersected. Whedon has written pretty much all of it.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 2:08 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


I have never seen it but am outraged anyway, just by dint of the space-distorting reverence that people in my orbit have for the show.
posted by everichon at 2:08 PM on November 22, 2010


many seemed to feel there was scope for cautious optimism with rebooting Battlestar Galactica, and that worked out okay on balance

And then there was that wretched Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy abomination.
posted by Gator at 2:08 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


BTW, hope I'm not contributing too much to my own thread, but from what I'm reading, because Warner Bros optioned the rights from the Kuzuis, they only have rights to the movie characters, so only Buffy would be allowed to be used from the TV show.

Oh, man! So Pike could come back? Rad! I liked the '92 movie quite a bit!
posted by Greg Nog at 2:09 PM on November 22, 2010


I can't imagine any of my friends who are hardcore Buffy fans being at all happy about this. Who do they think is going to see this movie?

Everybody else.
posted by JaredSeth at 2:09 PM on November 22, 2010


James Cameron has signed on to produce. Via
posted by Mister_A at 2:09 PM on November 22, 2010


Upon reflection, I suppose Warner Brothers could tap Michael Bay to direct, and he could decide that Buffy needed to be a man, and in the end dude-Buffy would like beat the shit out of a hot chick vampire queen. Only then would it begin to approximate the violence that was done to the Airbender animated series by its film adaptation.
posted by pts at 2:10 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


If you are incapable of verses like:

They got
the mustard
ouuuuuttt....


then you are too short for this ride.
posted by Malor at 2:13 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


I really hope Peewee is on board.
posted by bonehead at 2:18 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


Once more, with product placement.
posted by Danf at 2:18 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Oh shit. The internets are gonna implode.
posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on November 22, 2010


> Oh, I don't think anybody cares about the 1992 film.

Well, I liked it so much I didn't feel the need to watch any of the spinoff TV series.
posted by scruss at 2:22 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


but many seemed to feel there was scope for cautious optimism with rebooting Battlestar Galactica, and that worked out okay on balance

It worked great until it didn't and then it was all downhill. However, the original BSG wasn't a beloved series only a few years old. Buffy is.

None of this should be too surprising though. Buffy is a production, owned by a corporation. If they think there's money to still be made, they're going to go for it.
posted by nomadicink at 2:23 PM on November 22, 2010


I'll stop being mad if they get forget Buffy and make the movie all about Dawn. Then I can ignore it completely since it/she doesn't exist.

Nope. Never happened.
posted by bibliowench at 2:23 PM on November 22, 2010


What's kinda funny is that if you do a quick Google for buffy reboot you see that this has been in the works, sans Whedon, for like a year and half. I guess nobody really thought they were going to be crazy enough to go through with it, but, see above re: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
posted by Gator at 2:23 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


If they think there's money to still be made, they're going to go for it.

What really pisses me off is that it's going to be MY money they're getting. I'm such a fucking sucker.
posted by Think_Long at 2:24 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


JaredSeth, why would everybody else care? It's a remake of an unsuccessful movie with the same name as some TV show they half-remember.

This doesn't fill me with rage, just irritation at the utter pointlessness of it. As a non-obsessive Buffy fan (I've watched it all, but there are lots of episodes I've only seen once) I'm surely in some notional target audience, and I can't imagine anything I'm less likely to do with my leisure time that go and see this.
posted by howfar at 2:25 PM on November 22, 2010


bibliowench, can I be in your Get Rid Of Slimy dawnS club?
posted by Gator at 2:25 PM on November 22, 2010


Uwe Boll's Firefly.

Coming in 2013.
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:25 PM on November 22, 2010 [9 favorites]


I don't know why, but this reminds me of when they took Cassavetes' Gloria, starring Gena Rowlands, and remade it with Sharon Stone.

How does someone even get an idea like that?
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:26 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Bored now.
posted by maryr at 2:26 PM on November 22, 2010 [32 favorites]


The Buffy reboot may be good, Whedon or not, nobody knows at this point.

I may also be a better quarterback than Tom Brady, nobody knows at this point because no one has ever evaluated my football skills.
posted by King Bee at 2:27 PM on November 22, 2010 [9 favorites]


Nobody has trust-fund names like Buffy and Muffy and Preston and so forth anymore, do they?

Well, the people who were originally given those names in the 70's, 80's and 90's presumably still have them.

But now parents seem more inclined to name their kids after characters in bad romance (or Left Behind) novels, like Trinity, Brooklyn, Peyton, Nevaeh, Mackenzie and Genesis.

Or, they name their kids after actresses and rock stars, like Aaliyah, Angelina and Mariah.

Obligatory link: Baby's named a bad, bad thing.
posted by zarq at 2:27 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Uwe Boll's Firefly.

Coming in 2013.



Ooooooo, Reaveriffic!
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:30 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


...ethnobotanist Buffy, kabuki onnagata Buffy, nitro-burning funny car Buffy, Ken Loach kitchen-sink Buffy, CSI: Buffy, old-timey bluegrass Buffy, Busby Berkeley Buffy...
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 2:30 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


I don't know why, but this reminds me of when they took Cassavetes' Gloria, starring Gena Rowlands, and remade it with Sharon Stone.

How does someone even get an idea like that?


Cocaine.
posted by fryman at 2:34 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


howfar, nobody has to care. It's another big budget vampire film and the vast majority of potential viewers don't have any emotional attachment to the series...hell, most of the target audience will have been about 6 or 7 years old when the show went off the air. I'll bet it makes a bundle.
posted by JaredSeth at 2:35 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


old-timey bluegrass Buffy

O Buffy, Where Art Thou?

This I would watch. "Damn, Xander, we're in a tight spot!" Also all the Slayer-Vampire duels are fisticuff-style.
posted by furiousthought at 2:37 PM on November 22, 2010 [18 favorites]


JaredSeth, then what's the point of calling it Buffy? It's like all these unfaithful adaptations of comic books that no-one apart from us nerds had heard of until the films came out. It's not enraging, just irritating. But hey, no-one's forcing anyone to watch it.
posted by howfar at 2:41 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Wasn't there a vaguely similar thing to this a few years ago with George A. Romero being unable to get a new "Of The Dead" movie going, but the studio greenlighting the remake of "Dawn" instead?

In any case there's a good chance it'll get at least a few people to check out the original. After all, the Airbender movie got me to watch the show, which I loved!
posted by Monster_Zero at 2:44 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Buffy 2 : Demonic Boogaloo
posted by panboi at 2:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


JaredSeth, then what's the point of calling it Buffy?

Indeed, using the name "Buffy" was sort of a Valley Girl joke that was already a little dated when the original movie came out.

If they want to capitalize on the franchise and attempt to leech off of intrigue the fan base, they would be better served to keep the "The Vampire Slayer" part of the name, but select a new name that suggests a vapid, spoiled rich girl.

May I suggest "Paris, The Vampire Slayer?" Or, perhaps, "Ke$ha, The Vampie Slayer?"
posted by Joey Michaels at 2:48 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


I'm a Buffy fanboy, but don't really care about this. It'll be easy enough to ignore.

(And someone's been making a career of demon slayer as soccer mom.)
posted by Zed at 2:57 PM on November 22, 2010


I'm just surprised nobody here has tried to blame bunnies yet.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 3:02 PM on November 22, 2010 [7 favorites]


Oh god, no. The melodramatic college freshman in me who in 1997 fell hardcore for Buffy (and still drives my yearly re-watch of all seven seasons) is taking over. I expect wrist-cutting to commence at any moment. Where are my Mr. Pointy and Mr. Gordo replicas?

Seriously though, this is bullshit.
posted by mewithoutyou at 3:03 PM on November 22, 2010


"Damn, Xander, we're in a tight spot!" Also all the Slayer-Vampire duels are fisticuff-style.

The Buffy spin-off I'd like to see:

Sid the Demon Hunter in the 1930's (occasionally guest-starring Su-Li* the Vampire Slayer)

* Sid tells us he know a Korean slayer; the google tells me there seems to have been some fanfic naming her Su-Li Kim)
posted by Zed at 3:05 PM on November 22, 2010


Maybe they'll do the one thing Joss wasn't brave enough to do, and make Buffy a vampire.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:06 PM on November 22, 2010


One day they'll reboot Star Wars.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:08 PM on November 22, 2010


She did don the vampface once, in the first season episode "Nightmares," when nightmares became real because of that comatose little boy's astral blahblah.
posted by Gator at 3:10 PM on November 22, 2010


Does the Buffyverse have any confirmed instances of a Slayer becoming a vampire? I wonder if the demon essence inside the Slayer would have a chance to fight it out with the demon introduced by the vamping-attempt, similar to what happened here.
posted by Zed at 3:12 PM on November 22, 2010


This just reeks of the kind of television / film necrophilia that is a symbol, for me, of how our culture has lost it's originality. Everything is Ocean's 15, or As of Yet Unexploited Comic Book Series - The Movie! I'm not a fan of Buffy, and haven't seen a single episode of the show, but at a basic level it's appalling for a writer to re-do what has already been done. OK, you want to make a vampire show. Make a vampire show, why does it have to be called Buffy?
posted by StrangerInAStrainedLand at 3:25 PM on November 22, 2010


most of the target audience will have been about 6 or 7 years old when the show went off the air.

Not if Sunday kills every single person who might see this.
posted by Danf at 3:27 PM on November 22, 2010


Jeez, people. The movie hasn't even been made yet. By the looks of things, all that's happened is that a studio has commissioned a script. It's still to be seen whether the film actually ever does get made at all, let alone whether Joss Whedon has or hasn't got anything to do with it at some point.

Is there a word for judging something beforehand? There must be, right?

Hmm.

So let me get this straight. A writer (who has never written a screenplay before, unless I'm mistaken) decides that she wants to reboot a series (that is FANATICALLY loved by fans, and in fact still has ongoing canon) that she loves. So she writes a fanfic [...]

No, no, let's not strike out that word for a just moment. Let's instead go ahead and assume it's fanfic on film. How in in the heck is that a bad thing? If fans resent a fan for daring to take her fandom to the next level, well, um, phooey to that.

Okay, now let's strike out that word again and assume she's doing all this purely to get into the pockets of those legions of FANATICAL fans. Well, if she's doing that, and it sucks, those fans would avoid it, and she would fail. If she's doing that, and it doesn't suck, what then?
posted by Sys Rq at 3:30 PM on November 22, 2010


Imagine a reboot stamping on a beloved franchise, forever.
posted by cortex at 3:31 PM on November 22, 2010 [22 favorites]


Buffy Season 8 is being done in comic form, and Angel had his own post season 5 comic series - they've now intersected. Whedon has written pretty much all of it.

And it's really really painfully oh my god bad.
posted by aspo at 3:31 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


Oh, I don't think anybody cares about the 1992 film.

My husband is another one of the folks who really liked it and couldn't get into the TV series. I suspect there are more like him out there than people think because unless you like getting into it with TV series fans, it's not something you want to discuss. (No, really, you can't mean you like the movie better. Come on, stop bullshitting me.)
posted by immlass at 3:32 PM on November 22, 2010


...or maybe midgets.

I thought the whole point of the last season was that anyone can be a slayer. Why not follow the lineage.. why does it have to be Buffy Summers again? Short lifespans and all of that. This is insane troll logic.
posted by marco_nj at 3:33 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


I'm not going to reiterate every other criticism of Whedon out there--they're easy enough to find--to point out why a Whedon-less BtVS isn't the worst thing that can happen; this is the worst thing that can happen.
posted by Halloween Jack at 3:34 PM on November 22, 2010


Why not follow the lineage

'cause these people seem to have the right to make a sequel/remake/reboot/whatever to the original Buffy movie, but don't have any rights to everything else Whedon's done since.

And it's really really painfully oh my god bad.

Eh. Some of it, yeah. Some moments have been pretty great.

In those things, I've found it to be kind of like the series.
posted by Zed at 3:37 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Okay. Here is what I find irritating about this. We have a new film in which no one associated with the original series is involved. I feel it is reasonably safe to say it will be rubbish, and that people will say so, loudly and repeatedly. And then we will be left with an entire generation of people seeing Buffy for the first time and somehow thinking that it is actually worse than Twilight, and what is left of my soul will die that much more.
posted by elizardbits at 3:39 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 3:44 PM on November 22, 2010


And then we will be left with an entire generation of people seeing Buffy for the first time

I don't know about that...the real problem here for the producers is that, if anything, Buffy and Angel have been on TV about a million times more often in their afterlife than they ever were when they were actually on new. I suspect the average modern teenager is at least somewhat familiar with these shows, and can tell the difference between them and a wonky imitation.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 3:46 PM on November 22, 2010


This sounds cool, like the Battlestar Galactica reboot. Ibet they even have a Plan, just like BSG did.
posted by nomadicink at 3:47 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


I am for sure not really a Whedon fan nor have I ever seen so much as an episode of Buffy, but I'm always staggered when a big studio pays a lot of money for a property or a film and goes "Remember that thing that made this really popular? Let's get rid of that!". What's the point of sinking all that time and money in just to take a gamble?
posted by GilloD at 3:50 PM on November 22, 2010


I'm actually less horrified than I thought I might be. Given that we're highly unlikely to see any new film or TV Buffy created by Whedon, it's not like this new version is displacing anything. And it's not being written by a known hack like Akiva Goldsman, so there's at least a slim chance that it'll be good. So, the way I figure, either it'll be good and we'll get to re-experience Buffy in a whole new way (a la BSG 2.0), or it'll be as horrible as we fear, and we can just cringe and move on.
posted by Pants McCracky at 3:52 PM on November 22, 2010


And then there was that wretched Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy abomination.
posted by Gator at 2:08 PM on November 22 [+] [!]


Hm? I thought that was pretty solid. Good, even. Better than the TV series, slightly less random than the radio series. And you can't call it a reboot unless you are a mental.

I think the biggest problem is that people didn't think it was that funny - but really, the jokes aren't jokes anymore. They're the comedic DNA of the geekosphere. Important, but not that chucklesome.
posted by Sebmojo at 3:57 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Sorry, I clearly overstated when I said nobody cares about the 1992 movie. I think it's a decent cheesy movie myself, but it's a totally different league from the series.

Buffy/Pike 4EVA!

And yes, I too have the M Night abomination to thank for introducing me to the awesome cartoon series. I'm only comparing the two right now because of my (possibly mistaken) perception that Buffy fandom is quite a bit larger and more fanatical than A:tLA fandom.
posted by kmz at 4:01 PM on November 22, 2010


1. Yes, people still do give their kids names like that, Gator. Ugh? Ugh. Meh? Meh.

2. I'm pretty sure, but am too lazy to Google right now, that Whedon did originally write the screenplay for the 90's film Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which got hacked up and camped up when it finally saw screen. Then he managed to get the tv show made like he wanted Buffy to be, originally. I am pretty sure the movie was not an attempt to cop stuff from the show, since the show didn't come out until several years after the film.

3. how about a true Frank Miller-ish "Dark Knight Returns" kind of Buffy? Yeah, unlikely. Although despite the humonstrous popularity of Miller's Dark Knight, the movies have still yet to show us a Batman who kicks ass at the (visible) age of 50+. Per the end of the series, she's certainly seen more than enough crap to lose a lot of her humour....

er... Buffy / John Constantine team up?
posted by bitterkitten at 4:03 PM on November 22, 2010


New Buffy! Now with 400% more bisexuality and sideboobs!
posted by happyroach at 4:04 PM on November 22, 2010


So, have we figured out this season's Big Bad? Warner Bros or the new writer?
posted by never used baby shoes at 4:08 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Ok, I've had a few minutes to think about this....





Nope, still physically want to vomit, and possibly stab someone with a pointy stick. I'm pretty much the most ridiculously fangirly Buffy fan ever (hello? my cats are named Spike and Giles... one year, our Christmas tree had fake-blood-covered wooden spikes hanging off it and a Buffy action finger on top as the Angel). I wouldn't necessarily mind a Fray movie, or something that expands the Buffy universe.

But not this. My god, not this.

A suggestion for a t-shirt was made over at Whedonesque -- NO JOSS NO BUFFY. That's pretty much my feelings on the matter. And by the way, the Galactica reboot? Seriously? Apples and oranges. The original sucked. This is too close to the end of the original and smacks of those fucking Kuzuis moneygrubbing.

I once tried to license the rights to use Buffy in a book I wanted to publish. The studio wanted 20 grand just to call it Buffy-whatever. (Yeah, right...that's more than most book budgets are, total, in this genre). And now this?

GRRRRRRR, ARGH.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:10 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Hardcore Buffy fans get spergier than almost any internet collective. I think this is gonna be a fun ride.

Seriously, though, "There is an active fan base eagerly awaiting this character's return to the big screen."? Has anybody actually been saying "Man, I'd love to see some more Buffy, just without Whedon or any of the actors!"
posted by kafziel at 4:12 PM on November 22, 2010


Oh those wacky Kuzuis.
posted by rmd1023 at 4:12 PM on November 22, 2010


one year, our Christmas tree had fake-blood-covered wooden spikes hanging off it and a Buffy action finger on top as the Angel

What? You didn't have Angel on the top?
posted by King Bee at 4:14 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


There are plenty of ways a revisit to the Slayerverse could be done well.

This isn't any of them.
posted by cmyk at 4:14 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


As long as they don't fuck with my gorgeous hilarious adorable wonderful perfect precious BB Xander, they can do whatever they want with Buffy. I believe, much like my love of Adric in Doctor Who, my preference for female Holly in Red Dwarf, and my enjoyment of the Widow Twanky episodes of Hercules: the Legendary Journeys, this makes me a Bad Fan, but I'm beyond caring at this point. *strokes Xander poster*
posted by Mizu at 4:18 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Nope, still physically want to vomit, and possibly stab someone with a pointy stick. I'm pretty much the most ridiculously fangirly Buffy fan ever (hello? my cats are named Spike and Giles... one year, our Christmas tree had fake-blood-covered wooden spikes hanging off it and a Buffy action finger on top as the Angel). I wouldn't necessarily mind a Fray movie, or something that expands the Buffy universe.

See, this is what I'm talking about. This makes you "physically want to vomit"? You want a large-release movie based on a small-release spinoff comic that makes no sense without having seen 12 specific seasons of TV shows?

It was a pretty good show but jesus, settle the hell down.
posted by kafziel at 4:18 PM on November 22, 2010


What? You didn't have Angel on the top?

Nah, seemed a little obvious. :)

Without any prompting, cat Spike just came over and comforted me...I think he knows I'm super pissed off.

Also, since I live in Cleveland (really!), I can say that ANYTHING other than this would be preferable. How about a movie set on the Cleveland hellmouth where Lebron James leaves and we find out he's a vampire or something? Eliza Dushku can take him out with some martial arts and it'll be great. Yeah. Umm. Or something.

Again -- why not a Fray movie? Why this? They're probably going to hire some lameass Generic Blonde Actress (elsewhere I saw ol' Goldfish Eyes Amanda Seyfried suggested -- REALLY? THIS IS THE BEST YOU CAN DO, HOLLYWOOD?), and it's just going to suuuuuuuck.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:20 PM on November 22, 2010


You want a large-release movie based on a small-release spinoff comic that makes no sense without having seen 12 specific seasons of TV shows?

No, I don't want ANY idiotic non-Joss Buffy reboot. Period.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:21 PM on November 22, 2010


On further thought, there is something to be said for a strong female superhero who doesn't wear a spandex costume. It got a little weirdly preachy in the last couple of seasons, but the whole feminism angle is something that ought to be shoved back up into Hollywood's face, via Buffy or something else. If it takes the fetish for reboots to accomplish, I'm willing to make some sacrifices.
posted by Mizu at 4:22 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


I understand that you're upset, bitter-girl, but I won't brook this sort of talk about Amanda Seyfried!!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:22 PM on November 22, 2010


WIDOW TWANKY FOR WATCHER IN 2011
posted by Gator at 4:23 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Actually, the more I think about it, and still thinking that this film is a deeply terrible idea...could we maybe get an Asian Buffy this time? I mean, just to balance out The Last Airbender.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:26 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


COME ON, KITTENS. Seriously? You cannot possibly think that would be a good idea. You and me may need to have some fisticuffs the next time you are in town. It's like... it's like... casting Taylor Swift in a live action movie as Darkseid.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 4:28 PM on November 22, 2010


I wouldn't necessarily mind a Fray movie, or something that expands the Buffy universe.

THIS. 1000x this.
posted by edbles at 4:29 PM on November 22, 2010


I would watch that movie SO HARD.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:29 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Really, though, the only reason I think Amanda Seyfried would be a problem is that she's kind of old, if they're doing Buffy in high school...and I don't see any good reason not to do Buffy in high school, as that was really the high water mark of the show. TBH, Sarah Michelle Gellar always struck me as the weakest link of that cast. Now if they were going to recast Willow...
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:32 PM on November 22, 2010


See, this is what I'm talking about. This makes you "physically want to vomit"? You want a large-release movie based on a small-release spinoff comic that makes no sense without having seen 12 specific seasons of TV shows?

Wut? Fray has a completely coherent universe that's almost freestanding, the only expositional backstory you need is the whole supposed to have slayer dreams and powers thing and not just power and you're good to go. Just show a little montage of all the slayers through time fighting and getting killed and getting taught different parts of the slayer mythos and then show a 2 second clip of all the demons being banished forever, then throw us into the Fray universe. IT WILL BE KICKASS.
posted by edbles at 4:32 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


Fray would totally work as freestanding movie, it's just that Dawnbreakers took a huge shit on the "Vampires Win In The Future" concept.

I still like the idea of Slayers: The Series. Follow different slayers in different pre-modern eras, maybe some spooky time-travel-physic-link stuff.

Plus the first season could be all grunting and pre-language hunter gathers following how they develop agriculture and tools to deal with the Vampires...because I am totally sure everyone else in America shares my interest in stone age anthropology.

With all of history as a canvas, think of the Slayers you could have. Akhenaten was turned Vampire and worshiped the sun and built a whole city of vampires. Machuu Piccu built to withstand the attacks of the super-organized Vampire legions. South Sea Slayers swimming the waves to kill swimming vampires preying on moon fishers and divers. Rasputin Causes Trouble.

It's not exactly a Bad Idea.
posted by The Whelk at 4:42 PM on November 22, 2010 [4 favorites]


And if, like Buffy Canon says, Slayers are (like Vampires) half-demon in orgion, then you can have The Queen Of Sheba as a Slayer, as she is called half-demon, on her father's side.
posted by The Whelk at 4:44 PM on November 22, 2010


(er DayBreakers)
posted by The Whelk at 4:44 PM on November 22, 2010


I echo bitter-girl. Grr. And also - arrgh.
posted by grrarrgh00 at 4:56 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


400% more bisexuality and sideboobs!

I think 400% more sideboob = entire boob.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:01 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


I will simply point, and mock, and laugh.
posted by tzikeh at 5:07 PM on November 22, 2010


TheWhiteSkull: "…Ken Loach kitchen-sink Buffy…"

Now that I'd watch! Though I'm thinking more The Navigators than Poor Cow or Cathy Come Home..
posted by Pinback at 5:17 PM on November 22, 2010


...because I am totally sure everyone else in America shares my interest in stone age anthropology.

I do! I do! Also, these ideas don't need to necessarily reside only in the Buffyverse. Just say VAMPIRES, someone will bite. Write it down. We are all waiting to watch/read this. (well I am)

Also, to comment on the topic: This is the stupidest thing I have heard of lately. And I have lately heard of some very stupid things.
posted by mkim at 5:19 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]




tl;dr the comments.

All I can say is: Once, plus a series years later which precipitated not one, but TWO spinoff series... well... that was enough. Let the damn horse die. Vampires will be so-last-week by the time it comes out anyway. What idiot producer thought this was a good bet? I hope they prove me wrong.
posted by sunshinesky at 5:26 PM on November 22, 2010


Mewithoutyou linked it just above, but I think it's a classy response so here it is in textywords.

Kristin, I'm glad you asked for my thoughts on the announcement of Buffy the cinema film. This is a sad, sad reflection on our times, when people must feed off the carcasses of beloved stories from their youths—just because they can't think of an original idea of their own, like I did with my Avengers idea that I made up myself.

Obviously I have strong, mixed emotions about something like this. My first reaction upon hearing who was writing it was, "Whit Stillman AND Wes Anderson? This is gonna be the most sardonically adorable movie EVER." Apparently I was misinformed. Then I thought, "I'll make a mint! This is worth more than all my Toy Story residuals combined!" Apparently I am seldom informed of anything. And possibly a little slow. But seriously, are vampires even popular any more?

I always hoped that Buffy would live on even after my death. But, you know, AFTER. I don't love the idea of my creation in other hands, but I'm also well aware that many more hands than mine went into making that show what it was. And there is no legal grounds for doing anything other than sighing audibly. I can't wish people who are passionate about my little myth ill. I can, however, take this time to announce that I'm making a Batman movie. Because there's a franchise that truly needs updating. So look for The Dark Knight Rises Way Earlier Than That Other One And Also More Cheaply And In Toronto, rebooting into a theater near you.

Leave me to my pain! Sincerely, Joss Whedon.

posted by Sebmojo at 5:28 PM on November 22, 2010 [6 favorites]


Buffy the Franchise Slayer
posted by Xoebe at 5:32 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Also if they really wanted to expand the Buffy universe or hold on to the IP why not to that Ripper series they kept taking about or that animated Buffy thing?
posted by The Whelk at 5:38 PM on November 22, 2010


It would make more sense then just re-booting a movie series, but it seems to do with the strangeness of IP law.
posted by The Whelk at 5:39 PM on November 22, 2010


I'm more into Firefly and Dollhouse than BTVS, but the very idea of a Whedon-less Buffy appalls me. What are these guys thinking? How out of touch are they? How stupid, arrogant and clueless of the scriptwriter to think that fans WANT to see what she hacks out? I can't see this ending well.

In fact, I rather see this going down like the Hindenburg.
posted by suburbanbeatnik at 5:42 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


OR if you kept too the letter of the law, they can only use characters from the movie, then take Donald Sutherland's Watcher character and give him a new slayer to tutot with only glancing reference to the Other One.

Hell, set it in Cleveland.
posted by The Whelk at 5:42 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]


A Wes Anderson Buffy might actually have something going for it.
posted by sammyo at 5:45 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Hell, set it in Cleveland.

Well, they'd have to get permission from Seth MacFarlane to do that.
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:45 PM on November 22, 2010


Cleveland is hot property
posted by The Whelk at 5:47 PM on November 22, 2010


All those shitty Star Trek movies have not diminished my enjoyment of the TV series.

And Christ, those are shitty movies.
posted by munchingzombie at 5:52 PM on November 22, 2010


As long as Paul Reubens is in it.
posted by frenetic at 6:17 PM on November 22, 2010


I actually enjoyed the JJ Abrams Star Trek. Chewbacca was rad.
posted by Mister_A at 7:13 PM on November 22, 2010


They should do a movie with Spike and Angel and Xander and Andrew, on a road trip.
posted by nomadicink at 7:39 PM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]


And if, like Buffy Canon says, Slayers are (like Vampires) half-demon in orgion, then you can have The Queen Of Sheba as a Slayer, as she is called half-demon, on her father's side.

I don't think Buffy Canon works that way. It's not a matter of being born from a demon, but rather that the original Slayer was imbued with the spirit of the demon by 3 old dudes who gave the girl no choice. After all, learning this left a rather large impact on Buffy at the time and is one of the reasons season 7's ending and ignoring 6 seasons of character personality progression at a whim pissed me off.
posted by jmd82 at 7:49 PM on November 22, 2010


I hear you and I understand but QUEEN OF SHEBA IS A SLAYER.

C'mon.
posted by The Whelk at 8:16 PM on November 22, 2010


I have mixed feelings about this.

I'm mostly in the "Why, Warner Bros, why?" camp. The series ended not so long ago. While there is a vampire surge going on right now, there are plenty of other vampire properties that could serve your purposes if you want to cash in on the Twilight market.

But I'm also not sure I would want a Joss-helmed Buffy movie either. Because season seven was decidedly meh, and the comics have been terrible.

I would love some feminist, vampire ass-kicking heroines in my films -- but as so many others have asked, why must it be Buffy? Can't we have some other slayers? Or even better, come up with a new feminist kick-ass heroine?
posted by JustKeepSwimming at 9:18 PM on November 22, 2010


It's not so much Why Warners? or Why Whit?, as Why Fran and Kaz?. They own the rights to the movie characters, and they probably made some sort of not-too-expensive deal. Whit Anderson is one of the several credited writers of Need, which has been attached to Nicole Kidman and Naomi Watts, but that doesn't mean that the film is in production. Anderson has probably--not that i have proof of this-written other scripts or rewritten other scripts that have found favor with the producers who brought the project to Warners. She might have written the Buffy script as a spec, but that's highly unlikely--not with a property as well-known as the Buffy franchise.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:30 PM on November 22, 2010


This whole idea is like a bidet of evil.
posted by New England Cultist at 10:05 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


I don't think it's fair to compare ANYTHING that doesn't exist yet with The Last Airbender. You need to leave yourself somewhere to go if it turns out to be truly, mind-numbingly awful.
posted by chundo at 10:56 PM on November 22, 2010


If you DO NOT WANT, don't go and see the movie. FWIW, I hope that it is Twilightesque. I hope that the movie is a fanboi nightmare that attracts nothing but 13 year old girls. I hope that Buffy is an attractive but insecure teenage loner with a cop father who dispenses cod wisdom about beat up trucks. I hope that Angel drives a scandanavian car and twinkles. Because we had our Buffy. But stories are for retelling, and sometimes those stories need to be told to newer generations in ways that make the older generations weep.
posted by seanyboy at 11:54 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]


Joss Whedon Reacts to Buffy Movie News: "I Have Strong, Mixed Emotions"
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:38 AM on November 23, 2010


Is it just me, or does that Whedon quote sound as if, despite some creator anxiety, he's pretty much OK with the reboot.

"This is a sad, sad reflection on our times, when people must feed off the carcasses of beloved stories from their youths—just because they can't think of an original idea of their own, like I did with my Avengers idea that I made up myself."
posted by seanyboy at 4:42 AM on November 23, 2010


How many freakin' vampires am I supposed to care about these days?
posted by brevator at 4:59 AM on November 23, 2010


Jeez, you guys. I'm sure they'll put Marti Noxon in charge and it'll be--
posted by kittyprecious at 6:00 AM on November 23, 2010


Is it just me, or does that Whedon quote sound as if, despite some creator anxiety, he's pretty much OK with the reboot.

Mmmm, no. Judging from things he's written in the past on Whedonesque, etc, that just sounds like his version of being diplomatic, using self-deprecating humor as he is wont to do.

I was making the point to someone else about this earlier today who said oh come on, you KNOW you're all going to go see it anyway, just for the schadenfreude, to which I said nooo, this is not like those Watchmen fans who love Alan Moore and claim they will never see the movie because it isn't Alan Moore-approved...

[KITTENS FOR BREAKFAST AND EDDIE DEVIL, I AM LOOKING AT YOU, BECAUSE I KNOW WHAT YOU SAID BEFORE THE MOVIE CAME OUT AND I KNOW THAT YOU THEN ACTUALLY SNUCK OFF AND WATCHED IT ANYWAY!]

...we're talking a universe of fans who make their own damn movies, who take out full page ads in Variety magazine to support the 'verse, raise money for charity...fans who fed and assisted Whedon et al on the picket lines during the writer's strike...these are people who care not only about the stories, but about the people behind them.

It's like saying you can replace your mom with a mom-robot. It might look like your mom. It might sound like your mom. It's not your mom.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 6:29 AM on November 23, 2010


What if it were a John Ritter-shaped robot?
posted by cortex at 6:32 AM on November 23, 2010 [2 favorites]


This isn't about the fans. I know you feel personally invested, but you don't own the stories just because they consume so much of your life.

Personally, this is all sounding a little too much like when the denizens of www.Naufragium.com went mental after the studios rebooted Naufragium and added all those Ovid Soliloquies. (Now that was a Tempest in a teacup).
posted by seanyboy at 7:00 AM on November 23, 2010


It's like saying you can replace your mom with a mom-robot. It might look like your mom. It might sound like your mom. It's not your mom.

It worked so well for Warren, why not us?
posted by jmd82 at 7:06 AM on November 23, 2010


[shudder] I have a hard time rewatching that episode, cortex, the Ritter-bot creeps me out.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:06 AM on November 23, 2010


It worked so well for Warren, why not us?

I wanna point out Warren's Girl Bot was a concept that could have been so so stupid but worked out so well.

"Maybe if I wait here he'll find me!"

ooo poor Girlfriend Bot.
posted by The Whelk at 7:09 AM on November 23, 2010 [2 favorites]


(Oh, and seanyboy -- when you as a producer use, as your justification for the project: "“There is an active fan base eagerly awaiting this character’s return…", then maybe...just MAYBE...you might want to actually, oh, make sure that's true. If they'd said "damn, kids, y'all love some shiny vampires, and we saw you made this, so we thought we'd bring back the vampire slayer to cash in on some of that SWEET teenager cash..." -- well, at least that'd be HONEST. Besides, this is what I have to say about exploiting Buffy fandom to cash in on Twilight money).
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:10 AM on November 23, 2010


Also, Nicholas Brendon owns a copy of my book.

I just feel the need to say that every 3 months or so.
posted by The Whelk at 7:16 AM on November 23, 2010 [1 favorite]


If I were a producer, I think I'd pretty much say anything that helped any projects I was managing through the gates. Because, oh, that's what producers do.

Feel I'm slipping off the main point here though. How producers sell movies really has nothing to do with how betrayed you feel right now. You feel betrayed because you want Buffy portrayed *your* way. This is understandable.

However, stories need to be retold. And they need to be retold to a new audience. You have your limited edition box sets. And you have your fanfic. Now - Someone is repackaging this franchise for a bunch of new people. I'm not saying that they will like it. It's actually pretty hard to make a good film. But it should be tried. We owe it to our culture to constantly rewrite.

Ironically, you're protesting the rebooting of a *Vampire* story. I've actually met some of those Bram-Stoker-philes who refuse to watch Buffy because it's a travesty unto proper vampire writing, and they act like petulant morons. Please don't be the same as them.
posted by seanyboy at 7:29 AM on November 23, 2010


Look, seanyboy, it's not just me. It's not just the fans. Even the original actors (see: Twitter over the last 24 hours) have said aaaaaagh, no. (Boreanaz went for a visual opinion).

I'm all for a good retelling of a story, but one of the things that made the show what it was = the writing style of Espenson, Whedon et al. And not just on Buffy -- look at the much-loved projects Buffy writers have gone on to do -- Espenson at Battlestar Galactica, etc. Unless Whit Anderson can bring the snappy dialogue that made Buffy more than just another vampire whatever to her script, it's gonna suck. It's not about the vampires.

(BTW, off topic but funny -- BtVS comic book/etc writer Brian Lynch weighs in).
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:53 AM on November 23, 2010


Also, Nicholas Brendon owns a copy of my book.

Pics or it didn't happen.
posted by Think_Long at 7:57 AM on November 23, 2010


I was at NYC Comic Con and he stopped by the booth and bought the book and thank god my mouth was full of pretzel at the time cause I just would have scared him away with my loud honking noises.
posted by The Whelk at 7:59 AM on November 23, 2010


I have no regard either way for anything Whedon related (I find the forced "adorableness" of his dialogue to be tiring) but this reminds me (in a smaller sense) when fans of Repo! The Genetic Opera got all bent out of shape about that Jude Law movie Repo Men was announced, and one can't blame them, as it was a direct rip off of the idea (technically the movie was based on a book, Repossession Mambo, which was... a direct rip off of the idea)

Long story short, there was a whole lot of fanwank about How Dare They make this movie, and dread that people would flock to a big budget action film starring big name stars and forget about their cute little Indie Musical That could, leaving it in the dust... And then Repo Men came out and everyone immediately forgot it.

I think reboots are hit or miss, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Either way, it doesn't eliminate the source material, and sometimes adding a new chapter on a timeless classic can endear it to a whole new generation of fans. Hell, it worked for the Mormons.

Hell, set it in Cleveland.

At least it's not Detroit
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 8:12 AM on November 23, 2010


That's pretty cool. Apparently he's on Criminal Minds or something now. Who would of thought that Michelle Trachtenburg (sp?) would have the most successful career out of the cast.

Actually, I suppose Allyson Hannigan has had the best.
posted by Think_Long at 8:13 AM on November 23, 2010


Also, married to Doyle.

(WHY DO I KNOW THIS?!)
posted by The Whelk at 8:15 AM on November 23, 2010


(Uther Bentrazor, as a Cleveland native and resident, I concur with those videos. The Flats are like a "Scooby Doo ghost town"! And West Sixth Street is the "perfect place if you're a douchebag"!)

Can't believe they didn't mention the Hellmouth, though if you look at the Season 8 Faith comic book arc, it does show her sitting on the Hope Memorial Bridge. The writer of that arc, Brian K. Vaughan (yes, the one from Lost) is from Cleveland.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:19 AM on November 23, 2010


he's done more then Lost
posted by The Whelk at 8:22 AM on November 23, 2010


ooo poor Girlfriend Bot.

In Buffy, robots are always about bad, obsessive love.

Exhibit A
Exhibit B
And Warren's girlfriend-bot and the Buffy-bot.

I've never known quite what to make of that.

Also, Nicholas Brendon owns a copy of my book.

Poor, poor Whelk. Kelly Donovan goes around comic cons all the time letting people think that.
posted by Zed at 8:25 AM on November 23, 2010 [2 favorites]


Also, married to Doyle.

If you're talking about Aly Hannigan, I think you mean married to Wes (Alexis Denisof). Doyle was the original non-Cordelia sidekick on Angel, and was played by the late great Glenn Quinn. RIP, Glenn and Andy.
posted by kmz at 8:27 AM on November 23, 2010 [1 favorite]


he's done more then Lost

Oh I know. (I own the entire run of Y The Last Man). I just figure most people know him from Lost.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:30 AM on November 23, 2010


Er, yes. Denisof. Who did a great bush impression as the feckless senator in Dollhouse.
posted by The Whelk at 8:31 AM on November 23, 2010


Aw, hell. I didn't know Andy Hallet was dead. He had a really tremendous voice and I'd always hoped he'd get a chance to do bigger things than be the comic relief in green make-up.
posted by Zed at 8:31 AM on November 23, 2010


(Also, Vaughan went to my boyfriend's high school, and my boyfriend draws a comic book with MeFi's Own kittens for breakfast). So for all I know, Whelk, maybe Nicholas Brendon owns a copy of El Gorgo! too. ;)
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:33 AM on November 23, 2010


And yeah Andy was heartbreaking, it was such bad luck.
posted by The Whelk at 8:33 AM on November 23, 2010


Whit Anderson is gorgeous. If she sticks herself in it, I think all those Buffy fanboys will be suddenly okay with it.
posted by anniecat at 8:37 AM on November 23, 2010


Look, seanyboy, it's not just me. It's not just the fans. Even the original actors (see: Twitter over the last 24 hours) have said aaaaaagh, no.

Well I'm convinced. I mean - If it were just the fans, I'd not even consider their low worthless opinions. But now... The ACTORS? The good looking people from the original shows that were paid to read the lines? Those actors?

I'm sorry bitter-girl. I have gone too far. It is obvious that a Buffy reboot is a terrible idea.
posted by seanyboy at 8:40 AM on November 23, 2010


Whit Anderson is gorgeous.

Yes, she's SO QUALIFIED TO WRITE A MOVIE because she's pretty. Seriously, anniecat? That's an insult to female Buffy fans, too. Oh, a woman wrote it, so it must be ok. It's all, like, feminist and empowering and girl power and stuff.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:40 AM on November 23, 2010


Hey, I know the only reason I love Joss's work is that he's a stone cold fox. Mmm, Numfar.
posted by kmz at 8:44 AM on November 23, 2010 [1 favorite]


Awwww yeah, do that Dance of Shame, baby.
posted by Gator at 8:45 AM on November 23, 2010 [1 favorite]


i too saw the video of him at comic-con for the Avengers movie and wondered when exactly he decided to go all muscly
posted by The Whelk at 8:46 AM on November 23, 2010


cause you know, directors, uh, not usually the most photogenic people

exception

posted by The Whelk at 8:47 AM on November 23, 2010


The good looking people from the original shows that were paid to read the lines?

And who help the fandom raise money for charity, and who are often very deeply involved with its projects? Yeah, those guys. The ones who worked for the actor equivalent of pennies to see a cool project come to fruition? Ditto. I think it's fair to say that the actors who have been involved in his projects have a fairly strong personal connection to Whedon as well. (The musical episode? Inspired by a get-together around the piano at his house, for example...)
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:49 AM on November 23, 2010


It doesn't really matter though, does it?

Your main argument seems to be that this story belongs to a group of people who've invested a lot in it. That it has to be told a certain way, and there will be hell to pay if it's not told in that way. And then you back that up by pointing to other people invested in exactly the same thing as you, and you say "these people agree with me, so I must be right."

You're going to find edge cases why I'm wrong no matter what I say, but this is really just the New Trek, New Who, New Batman, New V, BSG, Watchmen, Reginald Perrin argument writ out again.

Let the youngsters sit round a different fire and tell the story slightly differently. That's my position. You won't like it, but you aren't them and it will not be for you. It doesn't matter which "essential" features are jettisoned. It doesn't matter if the sparky dialog is removed or if the Sassy strong female characters are watered down. It doesn't matter if the themes of alienation and responsibility are completely destroyed. If they manage to fit the mythos around their own newer worries, it'll be good. And they'll enjoy it.

You're taking the position of an Elder who insists that a story be told in exactly the right way. the BtVS 7 series box set is not the Qu'ran.

Stories (All of them) should be fluid. Buffy is no exception.
posted by seanyboy at 9:05 AM on November 23, 2010 [1 favorite]


But don't you see, seanyboy, the "youngsters" (what are you, *old*?) don't want some tired retread of an older generation's story. They need a completely new story, one that's with it, that's hip, that's *relevant* to their unique new interests, that's HAPPENIN', baby! Buffy is OLD! It's b-o-r-i-n-g. It's *so* '90s! Hello?!?!?!111!?!?

Let the old fogies have their story. Anything new is automatically better, right? So make it completely new, and *don't* call it "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Please. Don't.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 9:26 AM on November 23, 2010


Yes, she's SO QUALIFIED TO WRITE A MOVIE because she's pretty. Seriously, anniecat? That's an insult to female Buffy fans, too. Oh, a woman wrote it, so it must be ok. It's all, like, feminist and empowering and girl power and stuff.

Uh, seriously bitter-girl? You have what I actually wrote confused for something else brewing up in your head. "If she sticks herself in it" means if she writes herself a part and shows up on-screen, the droolers will show up to see it and declare it okay then buy a copy when it comes out on DVD.

She's so gorgeous she looks computer generated.

LOL qualified to write a MOVIE. THIS IS AMERICA! QUALIFICATIONS ARE FOR TERRORISTS! I PAID TO SEE TRANSFORMERS REVENGE OF THE FALLEN because I have a soft spot for Shia LeBouef, who was on 'Even Stevens' which I, childfree and immature, watched in my mid to late-ish twenties. I DIDN'T HATE IT. I AM NOT A DISCERNING INDIVIDUAL MY DAD WATCHED BENNY HILL WHAT DO YOU EXPECT!? SHOW ME THE MONEY!
posted by anniecat at 9:41 AM on November 23, 2010


Yes, because clearly Buffy fanboys only watched the show for the eyecandy. TV shows and movies are so devoid of good looking people that when a rare movie comes out with a beautiful woman in it, it automatically gets a devoted fanbase.
posted by kmz at 9:53 AM on November 23, 2010


Yes, because clearly Buffy fanboys only watched the show for the eyecandy.

Oh for Christ's sake.
posted by anniecat at 9:57 AM on November 23, 2010


Aw, hell. I didn't know Andy Hallet was dead. He had a really tremendous voice and I'd always hoped he'd get a chance to do bigger things than be the comic relief in green make-up.

This. Wow.. I loved Lorne, he was probably one of my favorite characters in Angel. And all the stories about Andy made him seem like such a nice guy. I'm going to go be sad now.
posted by ashirys at 10:05 AM on November 23, 2010


Er, yes. Denisof. Who did a great bush impression as the feckless senator in Dollhouse.
posted by The Whelk


Except for his accent. Sweet LORD is that man the worst British actor I've ever seen at working an American accent. My girlfriend and I were having difficulty because in almost all of his scenes we were dying of laughter at his ridiculous attempts at morphing his accent. He did vaguely okay when he was doing speeches... but the other dialogue scenes? Hilarious, and not in the on purpose way. If I'd been the director of those scenes there is NO way I'd have let them air like that. He had the same problem when he guested on his wife's sitcom How I Met Your Mother. Excellent actor... but ONLY PLAY BRITISH PEOPLE PLEASE!
posted by haveanicesummer at 10:08 AM on November 23, 2010


Sweet LORD is that man the worst British actor I've ever seen at working an American accent.

Alexis Denisof? He's not British. He's from Maryland. (I guess that's a testimony to how good his prissy British accent was in the Buffyverse...)
posted by Gator at 10:12 AM on November 23, 2010 [2 favorites]


Alexis Denisof, like James Marsters, is American. (Though he did work in England for a number of years.)
posted by kmz at 10:13 AM on November 23, 2010


Hunh. I also found his American accent in Dollhouse ludicrously bad and am now mind-croggled.
posted by Zed at 10:16 AM on November 23, 2010


seanyboy: I understand where you're coming from, but the comparisons you are drawing just aren't the same. I'm often on the other side of this debate when it comes to remakes because I'm generally an optimist. Sure, most of them suck, but when a great remake or adaptation rolls around, it makes the Truth About Charlies and League of Extraordinary Gentlemens worth it. However, in the case of Buffy, it's not a long dead property whose original creators are either dead or no longer invested in it. The spearhead of Buffy is still involved in the property, and it's not like they can argue they don't trust him with it or somesuch since Marvel is trusting a much, much bigger property to him. This isn't New Who either, as Doctor Who was never tied so heavily to one person as Buffy was. This is clearly about money and nothing else, and the worst part is, it's probably not the best plan for a money grab either. I know you're saying the fans don't have a hold on this and shouldn't cling to it so fiercly and fine, I'll grant you that sake of argument. But the actual creator shouldn't get some say because of some rights issues? Couldn't they have at least offered him the same deal they're giving these people who from their statements seem more like they want to pillage the property than anything else.

Yes, it can be good to remake, rework, remix, reinject new properties "for the kids" or whatever. But that doesn't even seem like what this is. This seems like lazy opportunism AND not the best way to make money.
posted by haveanicesummer at 10:18 AM on November 23, 2010 [2 favorites]


Wait... REALLY? What is UP with the way he talks then? Seriously. His intonation is insane!
posted by haveanicesummer at 10:20 AM on November 23, 2010


While we're talking of fluid stories retold for the younger generation, everyone be sure to grab Dracula The Un-Dead by Dacre Stoker - "the official sequel to Dracula". I understand that Stoker's great-grandnephew and his ghost-writer feel this re-envisioning of the story with Dracula as the oppressed hero is a vivid update for a new generation's concerns, and not at all a tacky attempt by a pair of undistinguished would-be creators to cash in on their accidental franchise rights.
posted by ormondsacker at 10:33 AM on November 23, 2010


See, "Dacre." Now THAT is a pretentious name for THIS generation.
posted by Gator at 10:36 AM on November 23, 2010


Alexis Denisof? He's not British. He's from Maryland.

Bizarro Dominic West?
posted by Sys Rq at 12:39 PM on November 23, 2010 [1 favorite]


Wait, scratch that.

Except for his accent. Sweet LORD is that man the worst British actor I've ever seen at working an American accent. My girlfriend and I were having difficulty because in almost all of his scenes we were dying of laughter at his ridiculous attempts at morphing his accent. He did vaguely okay when he was doing speeches... but the other dialogue scenes? Hilarious, and not in the on purpose way. If I'd been the director of those scenes there is NO way I'd have let them air like that. He had the same problem when he guested on his wife's sitcom How I Met Your Mother. Excellent actor... but ONLY PLAY BRITISH PEOPLE PLEASE!

Bizarro Dominic West?
posted by Sys Rq at 12:42 PM on November 23, 2010


And I only found out recently that Carcetti is Irish.
posted by haveanicesummer at 12:42 PM on November 23, 2010


Stringer Bell: Englishman.
posted by Sys Rq at 12:45 PM on November 23, 2010


Having a script is pretty far from it actually happening. Studios buy scripts all the time that never go anywhere at all. I'll believe it when I see it.
posted by stoneweaver at 1:32 PM on November 23, 2010


Stories (All of them) should be fluid. Buffy is no exception.

Typically, I agree with this, but this particular story isn't even finished being told the for the first time.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, Buffy so far is only "broke" in the sense that it isn't a Twilight cash-in. This is entirely a business decision, not a creative one, so defending it on creative grounds doesn't really work, IMO.
posted by Amanojaku at 2:36 PM on November 23, 2010


Gotta love Whedon's recognition that he can hardly complain when he's in the middle of making a movie that will be giving a new re-boot to someone else's characters.
posted by straight at 2:38 PM on November 23, 2010


That's pretty cool. Apparently he's on Criminal Minds or something now. Who would of thought that Michelle Trachtenburg (sp?) would have the most successful career out of the cast.

Actually, I suppose Allyson Hannigan has had the best.


Boreanaz, surely. $200k an ep for Bones (for certain monetary values of success, obviously)
posted by Sparx at 3:41 PM on November 23, 2010


But anyhow - as a fairly big fan at one time I really have no opinion on this. On the one hand, obviously there's an excellent chance it will be of the suck, but things have sucked before and not done me any mortal harm.

And on the other hand, this Whit person might have just had the most fantastic idea in the history of ever.

Plus it'll be years before jokes about the Buffy reVamp get old. YEARS!
posted by Sparx at 4:01 PM on November 23, 2010


I just want to let you all know that because of this thread I had a dream last night wherein Boreanaz took me to prom. And later the people in our hotel were getting murdered. So when I tried to rescue them he was like "are you KIDDING me? Let's jump out the window! We're only on the second floor! I'm just an actor, man!"

Damn you, MeFi. Damn you.
posted by Mizu at 4:03 PM on November 23, 2010 [2 favorites]


You guys, seanyboy is right. You wheezing old farts probably just can't see around your bifocals at the fucking future, man, but do you realize this show went off the air in, like, 2003? OMG!!1! I guess maybe for some of you that seems like not so long ago, since you're old and crap and what's seven years to someone who might be thirty-five, even, lol, but okay don't have an angina attack but the titanic youth of today knows all too well how much has changed since way back when you started taking your jurassitol!! Let me break this shit down, yo:

IN 2003, Buffy would have been talking on some kind of bullshit flip phone. It probably didn't even play any mp3s!! TODAY, Buffy would have an iPhone. We are already like rewriting reality down to its very fucking foundations bitches but let me go on IF YOU CAN TAKE IT

IN 2003, George W. Bush was president. TODAY it's some other guy!

IN 2003, vampires were like this thing no one had heard of because there was no Stephenie Meyer yet. NOW VAMPIRES ARE SUPER POPULAR

IN 2003, we were at war with Iraq and Afghanistan...wars some said would never end. GUESS WHAT FOOLS

IN 2003, there was no MetaFilter there was a MetaFilter but it was from a long time ago when things were stupid

Well, I guess I've made my point. To Carousel* with you all!!!

*You will understand this joke no later than 2013...come on, no one's remade this yet?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:52 PM on November 23, 2010 [10 favorites]


You won't be laughing when it's your palm blinking red!
posted by Zed at 5:03 PM on November 23, 2010 [2 favorites]


I had a dream last night wherein Boreanaz took me to prom.

Funny, all my high school dreams had Giles taking me to the prom.

(well okay sometimes Xander)
posted by The Whelk at 6:30 PM on November 23, 2010 [1 favorite]


My cat took you to prom, Whelk?
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:08 PM on November 23, 2010


no one's remade this yet?

They're trying!
posted by kmz at 7:38 PM on November 23, 2010


also Wild Horses never made me cry when I was dumped in a bar and it came up on the jukebox cause I was thinking about the prom episode that i stupid no one does that
posted by The Whelk at 8:10 PM on November 23, 2010


Thanks kittens for breakfast. You really made me laugh with that last comment.
posted by seanyboy at 1:00 AM on November 24, 2010


"Remember that thing that made this really popular? Let's get rid of that!"

TOTALLY. I'll never get over Frank Oz's remake of The Stepford Wives (2004) or Gus Van Zandt's Psycho (1998). Whatever you have to say about their intentions, that's 4 hours of my life I'll never get back.If there was a point to either one of those remakes, I missed it.
posted by vhsiv at 7:05 PM on November 24, 2010


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