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Just a list of non hetero comic book characters
November 29, 2010 7:03 AM   Subscribe


 
I'm probably showing my age, but a list without Northstar (from Alpha Flight...and I think Marvel's first openly gay superhero character) isn't much of a list to me.
posted by xingcat at 7:12 AM on November 29, 2010 [3 favorites]


Don't get me wrong, I love Alyson Hannigan and Willow in a way that is frankly embarrassing for a 33 year old man, but is Willow really a comic book character? Surely she's a TV character that has been represented in comic books rather than the other way around...
posted by sodium lights the horizon at 7:14 AM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


I question the awesomeness of any list which places those dipsticks from Torchwood ahead of Northstar.
posted by fight or flight at 7:20 AM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


xingcat, the writer mentions Northstar frequently but doesn't think highly of him, and calls him a "minstrel show" several times.

The thing that puzzled me was that Wiccan and Hulkling together ranked as #4, but #1 was Midnighter, with no mention at all of his husband Apollo. (Since the writer likes Midnighter a great deal, dare I imply that he'd like to keep him all to himself?)
posted by Faint of Butt at 7:20 AM on November 29, 2010


...but a list without Northstar...

Northstar wasn't awesome.

... but is Willow really a comic book character?
Her appearances in comics have further defined the character, so I'd say she's both, a tv and comic book character.
posted by nomadicink at 7:21 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Northstar wasn't awesome.

Seconded, but I still have problems with this list: it's not all comic book characters and while I can't judge his gay cred, his nerd cred is lacking throughout. Nelson Muntz does not laugh like "AH HA!", he laughs like "HA HA!" And white people drive like this . . .
posted by yerfatma at 7:23 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


5. Wallace Wells

I'm okay with this.

And Northstar was lame.
posted by The Whelk at 7:24 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Yeah, I'm not a fan of this list (a comic book fan arguing over a list, the devil you say!). I agree that leaving out Apollo from Midnighter is missing the point, especially if you're going to list Wiccan and Hulkling together. Midnighter alone still has a gay identity, though it frankly verges on angry gay man unhappy with himself territory, but it's the moments of really sweet tenderness in The Authority (or at least the Authority books I read) that make him a character.

And leaving Northstar off is also a problem. As far as I know, he was the first out Marvel character. And he's a character, with a personality. He's gay, but he's also arrogant and unlikable in a way that only other speedster's seem to be (see Quicksilver).
posted by X-Himy at 7:25 AM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


No Dykes to Watch Out For? Or am I not understanding his definition of comic book characters?
posted by rtha at 7:26 AM on November 29, 2010 [18 favorites]


Good list, bad writing (well hey, it's livejournal). The dude keeps using the "happens to be gay" trope, and keeps talking about what "the bigots" did to a character without giving any context. Mad points for pointing out in the Xavin entry that white and male is not the default for Humans, though.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:31 AM on November 29, 2010


Yeah, definitely needs some DTWOF. Also, agree regarding Apollo and Midnighter. Just not that well done. Glad he did it, I suppose, but execution is meh.
posted by josher71 at 7:38 AM on November 29, 2010


No S. Clay Wilson lesbian pirates? This list sucks.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:39 AM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


Needs more T.

Rebis. Danny the Street. Coagula. Lord Fanny.

Yes, mostly by one author, but all awesome, and all characters that actually originated in comic books; you don't need Tara from Buffy to come up with a great LGBTQ list.

5. Wallace Wells

Although, fuck yes.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 7:39 AM on November 29, 2010 [6 favorites]


Daken is like a million times more lame than Northstar.

Also: No Lord Fanny, The Enigma or Lenny? Must have been too busy watching Television to read any Vertigo comics.
posted by Artw at 7:40 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


I kind of wish he'd just stuck to superhero comics, as including one character from Scott Pilgrim but ignoring the literally hundreds of other queer characters that appear in indie comics makes this list impossible to take seriously. Or...hmm. Well, I shouldn't be taking internet lists seriously to begin with. So maybe, "More than usually misguided."

As it is, he's just made it very obvious that Scott Pilgrim is probably one of the only non-superhero comic he's ever read.

(Of course, if it had been specifically labeled as a superhero list, I would have just ignored it entirely.)
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:40 AM on November 29, 2010 [4 favorites]


Aw, I haven't seen Buffy past the first season and now I got spoiled.
posted by Memo at 7:40 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


I kind of wish he'd just stuck to superhero comics

If he'd done that I think it'd be much stronger. But we'd still argue about it because, hey, it's a list.

So, I always just kind of assumed Mystique and Destiny were doing it, anybody else?
posted by Artw at 7:46 AM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


The lack of mention of Love & Rockets makes me sad.

Or you know, any manga. If we're willing to include bisexual characters, Motoko Kusanagi of Ghost in the Shell spends most of the series kicking ass and keeping her lesbian affairs on the down low and only late in the books does she date a guy for a while.
posted by yeloson at 7:51 AM on November 29, 2010 [4 favorites]


So, I always just kind of assumed Mystique and Destiny were doing it, anybody else?

According to a comic book urban legend, Mystique was originally supposed to be Destiny's lover and the father of Nightcrawler.
posted by fight or flight at 7:55 AM on November 29, 2010


With all due, this guy has no idea what he's on about.

No Hopey Glass, no Maggie Chascarrillo, no Doyle Blackburn, no Danny La Rue (Granted, Danny's a tranvestite, but I think there's room for him under the umbrella), no Bill Woolcott Promethea, no Hooded Justice and Captain Metropolis (A very slight plot point from Watchmen, but still a gazillion times more interesting than most of the dross on the list), no Francine and Katchoo, no Devlin Waugh, no Lord Fanny, no Monsieur Mallah and the Brain, and that's mostly just off the top of my head?

Bunkum!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:55 AM on November 29, 2010 [8 favorites]


tbh I thought it was just a misnamed article that should have been "The 25 Awesomest Superhero LGBTQ Comic Book Characters" until #5. We could then quibbled about where on the spectrum so and so fits and not worry too much about leaving someone off. But throwing in a token non superhero just kind of opened the list up to ridicule and mocking. And yeah, would have been better without the crossover from TV characters... but whatever.
posted by edgeways at 7:56 AM on November 29, 2010


I'm probably showing my age, but a list without Northstar (from Alpha Flight...and I think Marvel's first openly gay superhero character) isn't much of a list to me.

If you read the reviews, you saw that the author hates Northstar, which is why he doesn't put him on the list. So whether you agree with him or not, it was a deliberate choice, not an oversight.
posted by outlandishmarxist at 7:56 AM on November 29, 2010


Xena is gay? I know there was an awful lot of projection of lesbian identities on Xena and Gabrielle back in the day, but was there ever anything more concrete? It seems like it's more of a Sam and Frodo thing (who, in fairness, are totes gay for each other).
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 7:59 AM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


They got very canon about the Xena/Gabriel love -- also Xena had earlier female lovers.
posted by jb at 8:03 AM on November 29, 2010


Yeah, as the show went on Xena's subtext became bright yellow screaming neon text.
posted by The Whelk at 8:04 AM on November 29, 2010 [9 favorites]


Cool, I caught the occasional episode in first run and had started watching the earlier seasons on Netflix, but it's all still subtext at that point. It'll be interesting to see the progression if I keep going.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:08 AM on November 29, 2010


So two of the top three are characters who aren't actually comic book characters, one of whom is repeatedly defined by the creator as not being gay but a different type of sexuality altogether.

And no mention of several comics already mentioned here that are, you know, entirely cast with gay characters. Were it not for #1 being from a Warren Ellis book I'd also agree this person has never actually read a comic book.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 8:15 AM on November 29, 2010


No Wulf and Johnny Alpha!

( Come on, they retired to a country cottage together. )
posted by Artw at 8:15 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


No Hot Head???
posted by wg at 8:16 AM on November 29, 2010 [10 favorites]


Yeah, as the show went on Xena's subtext became bright yellow screaming neon text.

Made me laugh out loud. Thanks.
posted by josher71 at 8:16 AM on November 29, 2010


I can't believe he left out Steve Traynor from Top 10, whose partner, by a strange apparent coincidence, is also named Wulf.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:18 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


And Jack Phantom, for that matter.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:19 AM on November 29, 2010


What, no Batman and Robin?!
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 8:21 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


no LOVE AND ROCKETS?!?!?!
posted by liza at 8:25 AM on November 29, 2010 [8 favorites]


Interesting that Marvel has an LGBT "ban". I hadn't heard that before. Wasn't at least one version of Angel gay?

While DC isn't excatly progrssive on these things either, they've always seemed to have a broader tent, at least in their more adult books. Grand Morrison had the Joker as a transvestite in the mid 80s in Arkham Asylum, and created Danny the Street and Lord Fanny in the 90s. DC's oldest existing character has been recast as dual gendered by Neil Gaiman: Dr. Occult/Rose Psychic.
posted by bonehead at 8:27 AM on November 29, 2010


Just to add to the list, there's also Alan Moore's Top 10 had Jetman Traynor and Jack Phantom.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:32 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


no Danny La Rue (Granted, Danny's a tranvestite, but I think there's room for him under the umbrella)

The "T" in "LGBTQ" stands for "transsexual," so yes, he would be under the umbrella.
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:38 AM on November 29, 2010


(Apologies, "transgendered" is probably a better word, as the post's tags suggest)
posted by Narrative Priorities at 8:43 AM on November 29, 2010


What, no Rage?

And I'm really glad they squeezed Captain Jack in there. I saw Ianto and said, "Jack better be further down the list or else this is all bunk".
And really, who WOULDN'T want to squeeze Captain Jack?
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 8:53 AM on November 29, 2010


Marvel doesn't so much have a "ban" as it tends to bring characters out of the closet, abuse them horribly, and then write them out of the series. Karma, for example, keeps getting bounced from the library to minor redshirt roles, and a quick search reveals that they just amputated one of her legs above the knee.

DC fares a bit better largely because it managed to get a brilliant set of writers in the late 80s and gave them an imprint that allowed them a high degree of creative freedom that only marginally touched on the continuity of the flagship universe.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 8:55 AM on November 29, 2010


Transgendered and transvestite are two completely different things, though.
posted by me & my monkey at 8:55 AM on November 29, 2010 [3 favorites]


i'm right there with you, rtha. I came looking to see where Leonard & Larry were going to land on the list, but they aren't even mentioned.
posted by hippybear at 8:56 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


no Danny La Rue

Ooo, good call! Danny The Street was always awesome.
posted by nomadicink at 8:56 AM on November 29, 2010


This is a pretty weak FPP, frankly, because it's just one fan's opinion and he freely admits that it's not meant to be all-inclusive and he hasn't read Love & Rockets &c. &c. It's the kind of list that you could expect someone whose local comics shop doesn't stock (or doesn't particularly promote, even if they do stock it) some of the titles mentioned above; I don't think that mine (in a medium-sized city, but not one that has a decent-sized college) has ever had L&R, although they do have the TPBs of Top 10.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:03 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


What about Phil, Buddy's bisexual doppleganger from Hate?
posted by jonmc at 9:07 AM on November 29, 2010


"5. Wallace Wells

I'm okay with this.

posted by The Whelk"


The entire time I was watching the movie (not so much in the books, shrug), I was like, OMG IT'S THE WHELK. (I have since met both Kieran Culkin *and* the Whelk and can confirm they're different people.)

I note that most of this list is about "people who happen to be gay not gay people, yay!" Which is a nice move, in the sense that gay people really are just people. *gasp!* But then comments like this get to me: "Xena is gay?" It's like there's a one-drop rule for homosexuality. People aren't just gay/not-gay. And I'm saying this as a guy who's really, really hetero. Like, never even thought about a dude in that way. Though I have played at least one explicitly bi character, which allowed me to sort of get into that headspace and just be like, "Hey, love is love." I understand the need to call out the behavior as normal, but man, I can't wait til who you sleep with doesn't come with a label (Captain Jack Harkness is a step in that direction, though the majority of his relationships seem to be homosexual, or at least those ones are played up more; the heterosexual ones seem less emotionally deep).

So yes, a gay man can sleep with a woman. Because he is a man. And men can sleep with men or women. When you see the label as superfluous, it no longer seems mindblowing. Again, peoples is peoples.
posted by Eideteker at 9:10 AM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


What about Phil, Buddy's bisexual doppleganger from Hate?

Also if you have sex with some who looks just like you, is that a döpplegängbäng?
posted by jonmc at 9:13 AM on November 29, 2010 [6 favorites]


John Constantine?
posted by permafrost at 9:13 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


What, Ralf König's Konrad und Paul has not even been translated into English?
posted by ikalliom at 9:25 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


But then comments like this get to me: "Xena is gay?" It's like there's a one-drop rule for homosexuality.

Sorry, I stated that badly. To be clear, the last time Xena was on my radar any homosexuality was fan/scholarly projection, not implicit in the character's actions or revealed backstory, so I was surprised to see the character listed. You could make a claim that the show challenged gender norms from the start, but I don't think that's the same thing.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 9:26 AM on November 29, 2010


Xena ... scholarly projection

Eh? "scholarly"?
posted by I_pity_the_fool at 9:46 AM on November 29, 2010


Great list, Northstar should be there!!
posted by mel001 at 9:54 AM on November 29, 2010


Great list, Northstar should be there!!

Whoa, spammer comin' down the line, folks.
posted by interrobang at 10:01 AM on November 29, 2010 [6 favorites]




Eh? "scholarly"?

You bet!
posted by rtha at 10:06 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


I thought Northstar was pretty awesome when the Hand resurrected him and his evil self took the time to go around the country killing homophobes after bringing down the S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarrier. But my take on awesome often contradicts many.

(And I'm always glad to see somebody cripple S.H.I.E.L.D.)

posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:06 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


(Also, in my dreams where I'd be a viking if I was Ralph Wiggum, I'd be Shatterstar, so while his appearance on the list makes me happy, I'd defend the list more if he was higher.)
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:09 AM on November 29, 2010


Not being a comic fan (although I had my 2000AD phase, my Cerebus phase and expect to be in my Jim Woodring phase until I die), I hesitate to join the discussion.

Just... if we're exploring the sexuality of graphic fictional characters I have to say there's one who SO qualifies as loud, confident and bi.
posted by Devonian at 10:10 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Dude, Dazzler is Shatterstar's MOM. Can you imagine the boozy faded-diva Edina Monsoon life ?

Okay I'll imagine it for you cause it amuses me.
posted by The Whelk at 10:19 AM on November 29, 2010 [6 favorites]


I read the whole list thinking "where the hell are Apollo and Midnighter?" Then it was over and no Apollo :(
posted by Sternmeyer at 10:24 AM on November 29, 2010


I hadn't known that Chuck Dixon was homophobic. I'm havin a bit of an Orson Scott Card moment now, having to reconcile my enjoyment of his writing with his lousy personal politics.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 10:27 AM on November 29, 2010


JEEZ! This is the most, "What, no?!?!!?!"-rage I've ever seen in any thread about anything ever.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 10:28 AM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Apollo wasn't awesome. Midnighter was fucking awesome. It's like that with couples sometimes.
posted by nomadicink at 10:31 AM on November 29, 2010


JEEZ! This is the most, "What, no?!?!!?!"-rage I've ever seen in any thread about anything ever.

And exactly how long have you been reading MetaFilter, sir?
posted by Faint of Butt at 10:32 AM on November 29, 2010 [5 favorites]


Seriously, Apollo was just another variation on Superman. Garbage in, Garbage out.
posted by nomadicink at 10:38 AM on November 29, 2010


It's cool that there are non-hetero comic book characters. But really, an awful lot of those "characters of color" are drawn pretty white if you ask me. Without the narration by the blogger, I wouldn't have realized most of them were supposed to be depicting people of color.

Dear comic book artists: Don't be afraid to make non-white people actually look non-white. Thanks. (Also, Hollywood, when you make the comic into a movie, stop casting white people for the roles of characters that obviously aren't. Thanks.)
posted by caution live frogs at 10:44 AM on November 29, 2010 [4 favorites]


>>no Danny La Rue

Ooo, good call! Danny The Street was always awesome.


D'oh, apologies to actual Danny La Rue for getting the two mixed up. Then again, he's dead, so I doubt he cares much.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:48 AM on November 29, 2010


Midnighter was fucking awesome.

He became such a dick, though. I was rooting for Captain Atom to kill him during that whole crossover thing.
posted by ArmyOfKittens at 10:51 AM on November 29, 2010


Seriously, Apollo was just another variation on Superman. Garbage in, Garbage out.

Oi! Don't be dissing Superman.

Though, year, it is painfully apparent that all of the writers involved had some cool ideas for their deadly Batman clone and know idea what to do with their Superman clone other than "he's sleeping with Batman!".

In defense of Millar he has actually written one of the all time great Superman stories (Red Son) so Apollo being so boring is probably more at Ellis's door.

(Grant Morrison, who writes an excellent Superman, did breifly write The Authority, but the less said about that the better)
posted by Artw at 10:56 AM on November 29, 2010


Northstar: I honestly thought writing Northstar as gay was the height of timidity. "Let's use a throwaway character whom nobody likes from a third-tier group title! That way if there's a fan backlash, we can always just get rid of him and, hey, no problem! But we'll look all edgy & stuff for trying!"

Daken: Can't help but eyeroll everything Wolverine and Wolverine-ish, so I haven't really read much of this dude. I also can't help but think they only went for the bi angle to make him seem more scary to the fanboys. "Not only is he bad ass and evil -- he's into DUDES, TOO!!"

Destiny & Mystique: How is it that this implied cartoon relationship made the list, but Poison Ivy & Harlequinn didn't? Ivy & Harley are WAY more recognizable. And fun.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 10:58 AM on November 29, 2010


Cerebus

Now there's an interesting one. Does S/he even fit under the LGBTQ rubric? Cerebus never had sex with a male afaik, and self-identified as male, but "he" was a biological hemaphrodite. A sexually naive and mysogenistic one, but fully functionally male and female together, to the extendt that ve was supposed to be able to have vis own child.
posted by bonehead at 11:00 AM on November 29, 2010


He's like Wolverine, but dark! And edgy! And has wrist claws!
posted by Artw at 11:01 AM on November 29, 2010


What?! Cerebus didn't have wrist claws!
posted by nomadicink at 11:09 AM on November 29, 2010


ivan ivanych samovar, I was just coming in to recommend the Desert Peach, too, especially since I just discovered yesterday that the back issues are being published online. "Erwin 'The Desert Fox' Rommel‘s fictitious homosexual younger brother", as Wikipedia puts it, is a far more interesting character concept than most of the ones in the linked article.

I recommend starting in the middle, maybe around Issue 4; it takes a few issues for Barr to really get a feel for the characters.
posted by fermion at 11:24 AM on November 29, 2010


Yeah, as the show went on Xena's subtext became bright yellow screaming neon text.

Agreed - I'm in the middle of season 6 right now, which makes me howl with delight on 5-minute cycle on average.
posted by ikahime at 11:47 AM on November 29, 2010


No Wulf and Johnny Alpha!

( Come on, they retired to a country cottage together. )


Whut!?! I know Johnny got retconned to life upteen times but Wulf too? My poor heartses!
posted by Sparx at 12:03 PM on November 29, 2010


Heh. I'm mainly making a joke based on theircozy getaway on Smiley's World where they'd chop wood together and other manly bonding stuff. Then Max Bubba turned up and Wulf died.

SPOILERS FOR 90s BADNESS: Then, much later, Alan Grant was the sole wroter, and Wulf came back as a zombie for a bit in The Final Solution, the one in which Johnny Alpha was killed by a giant flying thing, only a bit later in a Gronk spin off it turned out he wasn't quite dead but kept alive by evil magic so they killed him again. Since then the both of them have been proper dead, except...


SPOILERS FOR 00s: ...they appear in flashback stories written by John Wagner, who was a little unhappy about the whole Johnny being dead thing... And then just recently there was a retcon when John Wagner basically overturned Alan Grants stuff.

-Phew-

John Wagners not a fan of the hide der cucumber version of what Wulf and Johnny got up to at their cabin, BTW.
posted by Artw at 12:42 PM on November 29, 2010


I'm a fan of Buster Wilde, myself...
posted by Drexen at 1:46 PM on November 29, 2010


I'm sad that these lists tend to not include Go-Go Fiasco from Codename:Knockout. Sure, there were only 24 issues, but I'm fairly sure that he was one of the first blatantly gay, uber flamboyant and straight up sex positive(well, the entire series has tons of sex) character on a major comic imprint(Vertigo).
posted by sawdustbear at 2:31 PM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


Where the fuck is Katchoo on that list?
posted by Asparagirl at 2:37 PM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


what about RANMA 1/2? teen angst wrapped around "the curse" of becoming a woman after getting hot wet? that's queer enough in my book :D
posted by liza at 2:54 PM on November 29, 2010


TBH I mainly get the impression that this persons exposure to comics is all basically in the last 10 years, with maybe some reading up on the past exploits of some characters that are still around today.
posted by Artw at 2:56 PM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


one of whom is repeatedly defined by the creator as not being gay but a different type of sexuality altogether.

Good thing it was a list of LGBTQ comic book characters, not a list of gay comic book characters, then.
posted by NoraReed at 3:18 PM on November 29, 2010


me & my monkey: Transgendered and transvestite are two completely different things, though.

This is wrong in a couple different directions. First, "transvestite" probably isn't the word you're looking for. That tends to be clinical, exoticizing and insulting (though some people prefer the term). A generally better term would be "crossdresser".

Second, by many (probably even most) definitions, "transgender" includes crossdressers. Transgender is not a synonym for transsexual; transgender is, by most definitions that I've seen, an umbrella term that includes crossdressing, transsexuality, genderfuck, etc.

If the statement were "transsexual and crossdresser are two completely different things", you'd be far more right (though even there, there's some overlap).
posted by jiawen at 4:02 PM on November 29, 2010


The entire time I was watching the movie (not so much in the books, shrug), I was like, OMG IT'S THE WHELK. (I have since met both Kieran Culkin *and* the Whelk and can confirm they're different people.)

Eideteker, you are like the 5th person to say that. I don't understand. I hardly sleep-text anymore.
posted by The Whelk at 4:06 PM on November 29, 2010


Possible Ex Machina spoiler alert....

I nominate Mitchell Hundred as the awesomest closeted, possibly maybe LGBTQ comic book character. Brian K. Vaughan is a great writer.
posted by mbrubeck at 4:23 PM on November 29, 2010 [1 favorite]


This post's title accurately describes its contents, unlike the blog post's title.
HATE TARA SO MUCH.
posted by edbles at 7:42 PM on November 29, 2010


He's like Wolverine, but dark! And edgy! And has wrist claws!

I'm inclined to agree with the writer's take on Daken -- making the son of Wolverine (possibly the most Mary Sue character in comics) gay is a pretty bold move. It's the anti-Northstar. Here, they took a character that was just screaming for thirteen year-old-boys to identify with his CLAWS! ANGER! GRAR! ... and gave them something a lot of them are probably going to have a much harder time accepting. (Or not -- I'm sure there are lots of young gay kids who'd love to have an angry, macho icon of their own.)

The complete and utter stupidity of anything related to Wolverine/Daken storylines in the last five years is another matter entirely, of course.

Anyway, I never got the impression that Apollo and Midnighter were particularly good gay characters. It seemed like, in their initial appearances, their homosexuality was a joke. "Oh, they're like You-Know-Who ... but they're buggering each other! Aren't we taking the piss?!" You know: the kind of Ellis/Ennis/Millar thing where the punchline is sodomy.

And let's face it -- if DC really had guts, number one on that list would be Wonder Woman.
posted by Amanojaku at 9:20 PM on November 29, 2010 [2 favorites]


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