September 3, 2001

11:28 AM

I did a brief search through the archives for Scientology because I know there have been a number of varying posts about it in the past. I didn't, however, see anything directly relating to the page I'm linking, so here goes. In the past I've heard and read comments about how horrible the Church of Scientology is, but not having anything to judge these comments on, I never paid much attention. But after watching all of these Real Audio streams of an indepth interview about a young woman who tells all about her experience with the church, I'm absolutely shocked and horrified that these kinds of things happen. It's completely ruining these people's lives.
posted by lizardboy (30 comments total)

I am a bit surprised that the poster is "shocked and horrified." After all, in our country there are many cults operating and getting away with stuff becazuse of our freedom of religion. In fact this outfit already looking for handouts from faith-based charity funds from the Bush plan. The Unification Church (Moonies) has paid handsome money to George Bush (the father) for speaking iengagements.
Gmerany, when it began to clamp down on Scientology was comapred in Scientology ads to nazism. This group is hard hitting; has top lawyers who sue over all things and bankrupt groups and indiviiudals. They even drove the an anti-clult group out of business and then bought and used the name of this group to further propagandize their group.
posted by Postroad at 11:52 AM on September 3, 2001

Yes, but not everyone is as well-versed in thes arena as you are. That's why I posted it. Obviously it wasn't for your benefit, but theirs.
posted by lizardboy at 11:56 AM on September 3, 2001

lizardboy
thanks, this will be an eye opener for me. looking forward to understanding what they are all about.
posted by redhead at 12:32 PM on September 3, 2001

I'm not surprised at the stories of Astra's experience with the church, rather I'm surprised at the eloquence of her story.

For a young woman brought up in Scientology, she seems remarkably well adjusted and bright.
posted by DBAPaul at 1:02 PM on September 3, 2001

"For a young woman brought up in Scientology, she seems remarkably well adjusted and bright." Is that a joke? Many people are brought in scientology and turn out fine. For example, Neil Gaimon was raised in a scientologist family.
posted by klint at 1:15 PM on September 3, 2001

Operation Clambake is also a good place to start for information about Scientology.
posted by normy at 1:16 PM on September 3, 2001

Scientology Secrets is an interesting read as well.

Searching for "scientology" and "lies"/"copyright"/"fraud" turns up tons or results as well. The "church" has been very vigilant at suing everyone who is critical of them. They know how to keep their legal department busy, that's for sure.
posted by Witold at 1:34 PM on September 3, 2001

The Road to Xenu.
posted by rodii at 2:40 PM on September 3, 2001

For example, Neil Gaimon was raised in a scientologist family

Neil may be bright, but I wouldn't call him particularly well adjusted.
posted by MrBaliHai at 2:41 PM on September 3, 2001

Sorry for being (or sounding) out of the loop, but who is Neil Gaimon?
posted by Rastafari at 4:00 PM on September 3, 2001

eek! no masturbation... (Joining the Sea Org episode)
posted by fellorwaspushed at 4:08 PM on September 3, 2001

MrBaliHai: I think he was joking...
posted by crog at 4:11 PM on September 3, 2001

The church of scientology is a criminal organization worse than banks.

Every time i go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art, i walk by their "celebrity center," whatever the hell that is. It gives me the creeps. Having read extensively about this evil organization in the past, I was very interested in seeing these clips - thanks for posting it. It's really amazing stuff.

What I've always wondered is, how come all these celebrities are Scientologists? Is Tom Cruise really THAT stupid? or Nicole Kidman? or John Travolta? (I know there'll be jokes about these people's intelligence, but come on, they should know better). Which is why I am sure they are well compensated by the organization and are in fact spokespeople the same way Fabio up until recently pushed I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.

According to this, I am right. Some of the "facts" presented there sound like they're not terribly well researched, but I think it's on the right track.

The link also lists Chick Corea, Kirstie Alley, Nicole Kidman, Kelly Preston, Priscilla Presley, Lisa Presley as well as Jenna Elfman and even Charles Manson as famous Scientologists.

(To the church of Scientology: I am kidding of course. You guys ROCK!)
posted by edlundart at 4:27 PM on September 3, 2001

MrBaliHai: I think he was joking...

Usually.

Rastafari: Neil Gaiman is known primarily as a writer of comic books (or graphic novels for the euphemistically inclined), he's famous for the Sandman series. He's also written several novels without graphics, his latest book is called "American Gods." His outlook on life as it comes out in his printed work at least, is pretty twisted. However, he seems fairly well-adjusted in person.
posted by MrBaliHai at 4:47 PM on September 3, 2001

By the way, look at this -- one of the most exciting independent films in production I've seen in a while. It's so good, I thought about posting it to the front page, but decided to just post it to this thread instead of creating a new one. The tagline is "If you wanna make some real money... you gotta start your own religion."
posted by Laugh_track at 5:31 PM on September 3, 2001

Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Kirstie Alley, Kelly Preston, Priscilla Presley, Lisa Presley. These people strike me as the most creepy, soul-less celebs. It's no surprise they are involved in Scientology. The only question: is it cause or effect?
posted by ParisParamus at 5:51 PM on September 3, 2001

John Travolta made Battefield Earth. Yes, he is that stupid. Thanks for asking.
posted by benjh at 6:15 PM on September 3, 2001

ParisParamus and benjh, I don't disagree much with your views on those celebrities, but I still believe they push Scientology not because of stupidity, but because of significant amounts of money and/or other benefits provided by the church in return for their favors.

Battlefield Earth was bad beyond any kind of reason. I tried wathcing the DVD twice but I couldn't get more than halfway through it.
posted by edlundart at 6:33 PM on September 3, 2001

I don't disagree much with your views on those celebrities, but I still believe they push Scientology not because of stupidity, but because of significant amounts of money and/or other benefits provided by the church in return for their favors.

Sorry to sound cruel, but I had the impression these people were "genuinely" involved with this organization, and that their personalities had either been shaped by them, or that their personalities, initially vapid, lead them to Scientology. I would go for the latter theory. John Travolta creeped me out from day one of Welcome Back Kotter.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:39 PM on September 3, 2001

In a way, I hope you are right. You may very well be. But I am suspicious.

If you need a crutch, there are other religions that cost less. This organization is largely a money-making machine and I have a hard time believing that these celebrities are on the money-losing end of the scheme.
posted by edlundart at 7:05 PM on September 3, 2001

The may be both making money and True Believers.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:09 PM on September 3, 2001

A lot of actors and other creative people have holes in their souls, so to speak. The impulse that drives one to be a performer is not exactly healthy, after all. Many performers I have known have been on a quest to find meaning in their lives, and are prone to believing in all sorts of non-logical things, like astrology for example. The attraction of Scientology is that it purports to explain things to those who need an explanation.

Kind of like Catholicism, or any other organized religion. We human beings crave structure in a chaotic world. Even us smart humans.
posted by acridrabbit at 7:26 PM on September 3, 2001

XENU will are punish infidels!!!
posted by blackholebrain at 8:08 PM on September 3, 2001

hold up, is that Xenu story actually the basis of scientology? if so, then.... man, i don't even know what to think..
posted by lotsofno at 8:53 PM on September 3, 2001

lotsofno, yes, it is. That's one reason why the 'church' of $cientology is so secretive and protective of their doctrine. If that story was general knowledge amongst new recruits... well they probably wouldn't get many. You're supposed to have undergone years of 'auditing' (and made plenty of corresponding donations) before being exposed to such important and priviledged information.

Despite all the supernatural benefits of Dianetics and Scientology believers claim, its obvious L Ron Hubbard didn't manage to predict the Internet, and that there would be enough ex-members and others who thought the whole thing was a con, for such material to become freely available to anyone willing to look.
posted by normy at 9:28 PM on September 3, 2001

I don't know why one needs to criticize (for example) John Travolta for his choice of religion. I do suspect that Scientology must offer particularly useful advice to actors with a project/drought/project/drought type of career, though I've never really investigated that hypothesis. For my money, Travolta is a fine actor and has high (Pulp Fiction) and low (Look Who's Talking) points in an interesting career.

If you're nonetheless looking for vapid actors to criticize, don't forget Jenna Elfman.

If you're looking for a spot-on parody of Scientology, be sure to rent Steve Martin's comedy Bowfinger.
posted by dhartung at 9:48 PM on September 3, 2001

After seeing the videos, it makes perfect sense to me why
Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise got divorced. If they are not allowed to have children...and Nicole got pregnant, and probably refused to get an abortion by Tom's demands, it's only natural that he would leave soon after finding out about the pregnancy. Nicole says "It was a shock when he wanted a divorce"...and Tom has always said, "Nic knows why"....If it's based on the rules of Scientology, and she didn't follow the rules, he was out of there. Nicole has always claimed that she was not a scientologist, but a Catholic...
posted by Sonserae at 10:30 PM on September 3, 2001

After seeing the videos, it makes perfect sense to me why
Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise got divorced. If they are not allowed to have children...and Nicole got pregnant, and probably refused to get an abortion by Tom's demands, it's only natural that he would leave soon after finding out about the pregnancy. Nicole says "It was a shock when he wanted a divorce"...and Tom has always said, "Nic knows why"....If it's based on the rules of Scientology, and she didn't follow the rules, he was out of there. Nicole has always claimed that she was not a scientologist, but a Catholic...
posted by Sonserae at 10:30 PM on September 3, 2001

dhartung: Don't make the mistake of calling $cientology a religion. It isn't. It's a money-making scam, a nasty little cult who care nothing for their members beyond how much money they can screw out of them.
posted by salmacis at 1:13 AM on September 4, 2001

A Piece of Blue Sky, by Jon Atack

A pretty informative and well researched history of L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology.
This book is particularly hated by scientology.

John Travolta made Battlefield Earth because it was written by L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology.
it was a pet project of John's.

also, some theorize that scientology has become popular among celebrities due to its exorbitant costs, it can cost upwards of $350,000 to get into the higher levels of the programs, and movie stars, etc, tend to have alot of money to burn, making it that much more attractive to them. just a theory though.
posted by iamjacksamnesia at 11:52 AM on September 4, 2001