Where is languagehat when we need him? Etymology =/= meaning! The fact that the use off the word "gay" to mean "lame" originates in it's reference to homosexual men does not mean that current usage necessarily has any connection to homosexuality.

This is true but beside the point, just as griping about how niggardly is not etymologically an ethnic slur is beside the point. The point is that if enough people... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 3:05 PM on October 9, 2008

I'm sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. Your use of etymogically as some libelous talking head might use allegedly or technically, or as a yellow tabloid might use scare quotes, is a cheap rhetorical trick. And you are directly encouraging the decline of public discourse and of handing control of our very thought processes to the lowest common denominator of impulse-driven screeching monkeys.

Uh, is this a joke? Or performance art?
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 5:38 PM on October 9, 2008

When I was in grade school, we called things "corroded." As in, she is so corroded, that is so corroded.

I like that. Let's start spreading it. Who are we going to offend, Iron Man?

Also, languagehat, gotta say I disagre with you about "niggardly." Prescriptivist as it may seem, I'm not about to be cool about letting ignorant people destroy the actual meaning of a word without a fight. One of... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 2:03 PM on October 10, 2008

All the suggested translations so far are wrong. I do not know enough Latin to answer this, and I suggest you wait until someone who does comes along. Note to compulsive answerers: if you have to preface your remarks with a disclaimer, don't make them. There are people who actually know the language.
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 10:52 AM on October 9, 2008

I find these conflicting reports most conflicting, 'hat. :-)

I know you added a smiley, but just to be boringly obvious: it is not only possible but common to know enough of a language to recognize when something is wrong without being sure of one's ability to correct it.
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 4:59 PM on October 9, 2008

Vir is 'male person.' Hence "virile."
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 5:46 PM on October 9, 2008

it is not only possible but common to know enough of a language to recognize when something is wrong without being sure of one's ability to correct it.

Please feel free to correct then.

Is this some kind of joke? If I knew enough to correct it, I would. Nobody here knows enough. Presumably the Finns do; I look forward to seeing their response.
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 1:42 PM on October 10, 2008

If you're wondering what Matt heard when he fired up MetaTalk this morning: happy birthday.

Man, that made my day. Despite the soul-killing fear produced by the financial meltdown, that dumb polka put a smile on my face. Thanks!

And happy birthday, Matt!
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 1:35 PM on October 10, 2008

Shouldn't we save that for languagehat's birthday?

Seriously. I don't even think Matt likes flameouts.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 1:36 PM on October 10, 2008

What? Embassies are there for cultural exchange and diplomatic relations, aren't they?

When I needed to find a place to buy some Linie Akvavit in NYC pronto, I called the Norwegian consulate and they got the answer for me right away. I don't know about other regions of the world, but Scandahoovian diplomatic representation is all about the booze.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 1:26 PM on October 10, 2008

The "public executions by hanging" derivation is ridiculous. People, read the OED entry quoted above: it originally meant "to become familiar with the proper wielding or use of a tool." If your or someone else's bright idea doesn't start from that, it's wrong. And I don't think there's anything particularly unclear about it; one of the things you do when you get accustomed to a tool is get the heft, the feel, of it, part of which involves getting used to the way it hangs... [more]
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 10:56 AM on October 9, 2008

the OED's oldest cite there is 1845, and it seems far from confident, since that use is clearly one that was written long after the writer expected the idiom to be understood. There's no claim to be certain that that was what it "originally" meant.

Certain? No. But I presume they didn't put "to become familiar with the proper wielding or use of a tool" in the definition merely because that happened to describe the first citation.... [more]
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 5:15 PM on October 9, 2008

Great article—thanks, y2karl!
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 3:00 PM on October 9, 2008

Nice story, thanks!
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 6:26 AM on October 9, 2008

When I lived in New Haven and wrote to people in the same city, I would end both their and my addresses with "City" instead of "New Haven," a fine old tradition I'd continue if I still wrote actual letters.
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 11:03 AM on October 9, 2008

But it wouldn't work. All your letters are scooped up from your local mailboxes and sent directly to a sectional sorting facility, of which there is only one in western Massachusetts (Springfield). So once in the stream there, they would have no idea what city you're talking about.

*cries*
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 2:30 PM on October 9, 2008

unless my man Yves Bonnefoy can manage to live until he's 116 or something, this is looking very very bad. it sucks for poor Yves.

I share your pain (and your hopes for Yehoshua and Munro). And I offer a wry smile at your "I haven't read much Le Clézio unfortunately, only three books"—that's probably three more than any other MeFites! Is Gens des nuages good enough that I should take a break from my obsession... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 8:51 AM on October 9, 2008

I really think he has this beautiful Cartesian clarity, in that -- for all his humanism and love of travel and of different cultures and his transcending his national literature -- to me he is stylistically in that French tradition.

Thanks, that's good enough for me—I'm a sucker for the classical French tradition (having had Descartes, Racine, et al stuffed into me by a very traditional alsacienne).
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 10:45 AM on October 9, 2008

Could we have a moratorium on the incessant "FTW"?

Tsk, nobody's bothered to answer the question, so I will:

No.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 10:52 AM on October 8, 2008

I think the only fair thing to do at this point is call a FTW thunderdome.

Fine with me, chucklehead. I'm The Man With The Blood On His Hands, and I was weaned on chicken milk and cocaine.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 2:22 PM on October 8, 2008

WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY WINNING?

They are winning what Mrs. Wilbur M. Hubbard of Chestertown, Maryland, won when in 1928 the Women's National Democratic Club offered a prize for the best slogan for the Democrats in that year's elections; for her entry "Eight Years of Wall Street; Now Give Main Street a Chance" she won an etching of Woodrow Wilson's tomb.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 4:56 PM on October 8, 2008

Fighty FTW!
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 9:02 AM on October 9, 2008

foldy!!
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 9:00 AM on October 9, 2008

You have no idea what you're talking about.

No, he's absolutely correct, if (as he says) pedantic. The Times should refer only to the U.K. paper; if you're referring colloquially to some other paper, that would be printed "the Times."
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 2:06 PM on October 8, 2008

If you want to be sure that people know you're talking about the one, you have to say The Times of London. Otherwise, in the eastern half of the U.S., "the Times" generally means the one in New York

This is also correct (except that The in "The Times" should either be ital or lowercase). Unfortunately, far too often, instead of writing "the Times... [more]
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 4:49 PM on October 8, 2008

I suppose it should really be The London Times.

If you're going to go that route, it should be The (London) Times.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 6:28 AM on October 9, 2008

A gentleman does not wear white gloves after Labor Day.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 8:59 AM on October 9, 2008

I'm missing the point too. Kneading dough takes five to ten minutes and it's like playing with a stress ball. Plus you can listen to music or watch TV while you do it. If you're going to go to effort of making bread in the first place, I can't see why you wouldn't do it properly.

Jesus Christ. My wife loves kneading and misses it when she makes this, but she makes it anyway because it's FUCKING GOOD. You are indeed missing the point, but your... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 8:57 AM on October 9, 2008

I had the pleasure of working for Phil for about two years

So you can tell me with authority: how do you pronounce Pirages? Like the word peerages? Pi-RAY-jez? This languagehat must know!

As for "I don't get it": who cares? You know, nobody enjoys/"gets" everything in this world. I don't "get" ballet or any form of dance, but I don't go into posts about dance to snark... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 5:58 AM on October 9, 2008

it's Pi-RAY-jes, rhyming with "courageous."

Thanks very much!
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 8:45 AM on October 9, 2008

Lots of great advice here. I just want to emphasize that this guy is not necessarily "scummy," he's a hormone-driven teenager. You need to compensate heavily for your mother-of-teenage-girl paranoia; just keep telling yourself "I raised her right and she'll be fine." Focus on the grades issue and try to keep your feelings about her boyfriends to yourself.
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 6:53 AM on October 9, 2008

Great post, and I thank you for introducing me to a poet I was unfamiliar with. Too bad Finnish is so little known that many of the translations are from German translations! Maybe I'll get around to learning Finnish (needless to say, I already have a dictionary) so I can appreciate his poetry; that's one of the main reasons I learn languages.

Also, that first link is amazingly thorough and readable; I don't know who runs kirjasto, but I'm always impressed by their writeups.
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 6:15 AM on October 9, 2008

I just read the answers in the AskMe thread; they're all on point and helpful except for the B.O. one, which is on point and funny and doubtless kept getting submitted, so why not leave it? An answer of "smells like Kevlar," on the other hand, is stupid and unhelpful and was rightly deleted. This is a bad callout and you are a bad person for making it.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 6:04 AM on October 8, 2008

I note that this MeTa pretty much replicates the nasty MeMail you sent to me except for some reason it skipped the "shame on you" part. While I appreciate that you feel strongly about this at some level, I really think that's over the top.

Seriously? Shit, wfrgms, come back and flame out like a man. It's the only way to justify your existence.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 10:50 AM on October 8, 2008

*mutters, approaches cortex while waving thunderstick threateningly*
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 2:11 PM on October 8, 2008

TPM is great, and I appreciate the link to the story of how it got started and grew—thanks!
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 8:05 AM on October 7, 2008

Josh Marshall was vehemently opposed to Howard Dean's takeover of the Democratic Party (he was for Simon Rosenberg.)

In revisionist fashion he has since deleted all the negative things he said regarding Howard Dean

Cite please?
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 12:47 PM on October 7, 2008

Not everyone is happy with Marshall.

Wow, that guy sounds completely insane. He not only spews hatred of Josh Marshall and virtually every other liberal commentator (while not expressing any actual disagreement with them), he says this about them: "And they gave you the dead of Iraq." Why not blame them for Vietnam, too, while you're at it?
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 1:06 PM on October 8, 2008

Yeah, some look worse than others, but most "alternative Nobel" lists are a lot worse than what the Swedish Academy has actually produced

This is a good one. Only in Russian, unfortunately, but I cited some of his choices here.
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 3:01 PM on October 6, 2008

Two of the best translators working now are Peavar and Volkhonsky

Excuse me, but what are you basing that on, their blurbs? Do you read Russian, and have you compared their versions to the originals? Here's a verdict by someone who does and has:When you compare the English to the Russian, you find mistranslations; inconsistencies of approach (sometimes idioms are translated literally -- even if they make no sense; sometimes not); stylistic errors;... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 5:55 AM on October 7, 2008

I don't care "who the guy is"; the things he's said in public are ridiculous, and I continue to believe he's a bozo covering his ass. Do you know him personally? If so, you're covering for a pal. If not, I don't see how you're any better informed than the rest of us. And all any of us are doing here is "ranting on a public forum"; you're just pretending that your ranting is better informed.
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 6:31 AM on October 7, 2008

the oldest, really?

That does seem a pretty silly claim. Hebrew, for one, blows it out of the water.
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 9:22 AM on October 7, 2008

my point is that some authors are universal, whereas the ones that were mentioned are rapidly becoming dated.

What bullshit. If you don't like them, that's fine, say so. Saying "Roth, Updike, Pynchon, DeLillo are parochial" or are "rapidly becoming dated" is pretending your own taste is some objective standard.

I don't read Russian, but I have associates in the Iowa Writers Translation program... [more]
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 12:44 PM on October 7, 2008

I fear these are not necessarily the first signs of a general Afghan movement.

I fear you're right, and I certainly wouldn't want the post to be taken as a sign that I think things are looking up in general there, but it was a nice bright spot in a world of increasingly gloomy news, and I thought I'd share it.

Thanks for the extra links, mandal!
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 9:24 AM on October 7, 2008

The subjunctive mood is fairly common and more complicated to explain than to use.

None of the examples in the question are subjunctive.
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 5:05 PM on October 6, 2008

They're all passive.

None of the examples in the question are passive.

So, I become just as annoying!

Far more annoying, actually. The other people are just using polite formulas, which are not meant to be taken literally, any more than "Goodbye" is meant to be taken as "God be with you." You, on the other hand, are deliberately being obtuse and annoying, assuming you actually do that.
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 6:23 AM on October 7, 2008

Yeah, Earth From Above is one of the best photo books (and exhibitions) I've ever seen. If you get the chance, run, do not walk.
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 6:11 AM on October 7, 2008

I don't think that will look too good when gas goes back down to $2/gal.

I don't think gas is going back to $2, if that makes you feel any better. (Do "carpool tags" entitle you to use the carpool lane with nobody else in the car? If so, that seems like a mockery.)
posted to MetaFilter by languagehat at 6:00 AM on October 7, 2008

It also is a question with an understood subject.

No, the subject is "who."
posted to Ask Metafilter by languagehat at 5:01 PM on October 6, 2008

My username speaks for itself, and can be worn if the weather turns bad.
posted to MetaTalk by languagehat at 3:18 PM on October 6, 2008