October 11, 2001

4:31 PM

Yes, it's an Onion link, but with lines like "It is therefore urgent," Rumsfeld continued, "that all Americans be quiet, stop asking questions, accept the orders of authorities, and let us get on with the important work of defending liberty, so that America can continue to be a beacon of freedom to all the world.", they really nail the problem with the prevailing attitude (one that comes up in many MeFi threads as well). Does anyone else think Fleischer is especially creepy in this regard? And how do you attempt to instill reason into the debates around you? Any luck so far?
posted by cps (17 comments total)

Is Ari Fleischer wearing lipstick in that picture?
posted by msacheson at 4:40 PM on October 11, 2001

Well.

That's still an Onion link, all right.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:48 PM on October 11, 2001

The problem is, if there is a war, at least in a conventional "over there, over there"-come-back-home-doughboy-don't-play-harmonica-in-a-foxhole kind of war, there will be a greater emphasis on conformity. I'm curious about the history here -- were Brits more conformist during the blitz? What forces led some Israelis to believe that any and all manifestations of Arab self-determination equal Israel's demise?

A little rally round the flag should be expected. but how far is too far? Of course, Americans have been known to suck very badly (see also: slavery, Japanese internment camps) in this regard. So it's a scary time.
posted by Bootcut at 5:00 PM on October 11, 2001

I really liked this article, really funny and biting. The Onion's stock has really gone up for me, they have proven to the most intelligent, insightful folks on the media scene these days. How weird is that?!
posted by cell divide at 5:14 PM on October 11, 2001

And how do you attempt to instill reason into the debates around you? Any luck so far?

Whenever someone tries to instill reason into the debates, I get real quiet for about 3 seconds, then I yell, "Can't you see we're at war, you hippie?! It's good versus evil!"

Then if they keep talking I ignore them.
posted by Hildago at 6:33 PM on October 11, 2001

Yes, it's an Onion link, but the hell with our host's wishes, I'm going to post it anyway, because I want to.
posted by luser at 6:36 PM on October 11, 2001

Ok, let me get this straight. Y'all are getting upset because fiction is matching your prejudices. Neato. How do you folks keep your arms from doing those Seig Heils?
posted by Real9 at 7:12 PM on October 11, 2001

And how do you attempt to instill reason into the debates around you?

The way I do it is to link to an Onion story most people were going to see anyway and insult the MetaFilter community as unreasonable dolts who march in lockstep with the government.

Then I take my shirt off and write "Amerikkka" across my man breasts.
posted by rcade at 8:11 PM on October 11, 2001

Does anyone else think Fleischer is especially creepy in this regard?

No. He's human. He screwed up the once when he made the offhand comment about how Americans should "watch what they say," in response to a reporter's direct question about comments made by Politically Incorrect host Bill Maher. Asked about it a day or two after, he said he regretted his words but not the thought behind it -- that all of us should think before we speak -- and I agree with that (how can you not?).

I actually found the Onion piece patriotic as for the light it sheds on the current controversy over the anti-terrorism bill being debated in Congress. It reminded me that even though we are at war, and as imperative as it is that we find more bad guys -- especially preemptively, before they have opportunity to act again -- we really do need to not act too hastily as we consider making changes to laws regarding surveillance tactics that could impinge upon our civil rights and the rights of visitors to our country.

The notion that America was founded on a noble idea, and that that idea is worth fighting for, even dying for, is what rang through from the article in The Onion for me.

Besides, it was a real hoot.
posted by verdezza at 8:13 PM on October 11, 2001

rcade said "man breasts." Huh. Huh huh huh. Huh huh huh huh.
posted by verdezza at 8:15 PM on October 11, 2001

rcade -- The way I do it is to link to an Onion story most people were going to see anyway and insult the MetaFilter community as unreasonable dolts who march in lockstep with the government.

I'm not "insulting the MetaFilter community" -- I'm pointing out that we've had these attitudes come up in threads here. I've followed some of those threads, and seen and participated in similar conversations in my surroundings. It can be a frustrating experience.

To me, how we deal with mindlessness remains an urgent question.

And this article offered the most concise characterization of that mindlessness I've seen so far. IMO thereby offering a possible approach to defusion.

But good for you that you're so sure about what most people are going to see and pay attention to.
posted by cps at 9:29 PM on October 11, 2001

When it comes to how most people feel about Onion links on MetaFilter, I'm pretty sure, cps.
posted by rcade at 9:43 PM on October 11, 2001

I love metafilter, I have seen many new articles that I wouldn't have seen. I had never heard of the Onion before I joined this community, I have had and read many thought provoking arguments, that have very much had an effect on me and my own politics.

What I'm trying to say is that although I agree with the policies of double posting, I am starting to disagree with the policies of what can and can't be posted. The majority of posts on metafilter are relevant, and as long as some people find them interesting why not leave them alone, instead of bashing people for joining in.
posted by twistedonion at 2:43 AM on October 12, 2001

How do you folks keep your arms from doing those Seig Heils? (Real9)

How nice here at Metafilter. People accusing others of being nazi's without giving strong arguments for the accusation. What's usually been done with comments like this? Should I ignore it? Should I condemn it?
posted by igor.boog at 7:14 AM on October 12, 2001

You could read about it.
posted by nikzhowz at 7:22 AM on October 12, 2001

Thanks nikzhowz. I start liking this place. Cheers.
posted by igor.boog at 8:27 AM on October 12, 2001