November 1, 2001

10:06 AM

"It feels like a warm, wet vagina."A mandatory "sex orientation" for students at Dartmouth College. The administration claims it was educational. Students who attended aren't so sure. Is this sort of thing common elsewhere?
posted by gdog (105 comments total)

so a vulva party is a lot like those prostate parties we fellas have all the time, hmm?
posted by mcsweetie at 10:20 AM on November 1, 2001

in high skool in like 1985, my gym teacher advocated heating up a piece of liver and wrapping it around ... well. i swear this is true.
posted by danOstuporStar at 10:22 AM on November 1, 2001

The author of this article apparently feels that the mention of sexual topics is vulgar. And quite frankly seems to be quite a sexual prude -- he sounds like the most conservative of our current national leadership.

I can understand being turned off (heh) by the presenter's style, but the information she presented sounds valid. Dartmouth is trying to help prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies. It seems Maria wants to be sure that the guys know how to show their girlfriends a good time, too.

The author is getting exposed to the real world. Let's hope he begins to see sex and sexual pleasure as a good thing -not a dirty, vulgar, and uncomfortable thing.

BTW, the reason to masturbate with the condom is to eroticize it so that guys can still enjoy intercourse while wearing it. No more pressure to not wear it because of the sex-with-a-raincoat issues.
posted by Red58 at 10:26 AM on November 1, 2001

my sex ed sure wasn't like that.

on a side note, my college paper could learn a thing or two from dartmouth.
posted by yangwar at 10:27 AM on November 1, 2001

*BluDoBleEP* Alex, my answer is "What is uncooked room temperature chicken?"
posted by Jeremy at 10:28 AM on November 1, 2001

When I was a freshman at Kenyon College (Go Lords!) I attended a (non-compulsory) presentation on safe sex during orientation week. The presenter stood up in front of the group and said, "I'm sorry, but I usually give this presentation to gay men health groups. The slides I use are pretty explicit. If you want to leave, I won't be insulted." Everyone stayed put. He then started his presentation. And the non-clued-in half of the audience realized that he meant explicit gay sex. It was like FilePile without the kitties. There were some titters, some moaning, and some people quietly leaving throughout the entire show. It was great.

It's all about knowing your audience. Dartmouth messed up by hiring someone who is probably used to speaking in front of a much different audience and then forcing the students to attend. But nobody got hurt, and you go to college to be exposed to different ways of thinking anyway, so what's the big deal?
posted by turaho at 10:36 AM on November 1, 2001

I'm sorry Jeremy, the correct answer is "What is fresh apple pie?"

Red58, I agree that the author does seem a bit prudish.

But to me, the seminar seemed crude, and should not have been mandatory. It *does* overstep the bounds of some people's cultures and/or religions and the college should have provided an alternative presentation if their intention was to help stop the spread of STDs.

It sounds unlikely that a college would make this mandatory, so.. there could be some confusion there. Although it's been a while since I was in university, perhaps things have changed a great deal 8)
posted by SiW at 10:40 AM on November 1, 2001

"I want all you men to use saran wrap to envelop your ass and penis — girls too. It turns me on, and its better that way."

Defend this woman all you want, but that's a little more than sex ed, to be sure. Although strangely hilarious, and certainly memorable, that's going a bit far. Or maybe this is normal and I'm just a prude?

Oh man, now I have to go buy some Saran Wrap.
posted by Samsonov14 at 10:42 AM on November 1, 2001

It's mighty lonely up there in the woods of New Hampshire, and those Dartmouth types need to get all the help they can find. (Moan)
posted by briank at 10:53 AM on November 1, 2001

The author doesn't sound so much like a prude to me as he does a guy who has found an incredibly easy target for ridicule and/or slightly posed outrage. Is it possible that this guy is making this up?

If not, the presentation sounds more than boneheaded -- it would be really, really stupid to hire someone who is going to put on an exhibitionistic show under the guise of "education." And turaho, what gets hurt is the credibility of legitimate educators: To talk about the splendors of group masturbation ("vulva parties"?) to a group of incoming college first-years is to help make sure that sex ed is continually viewed as left-wing flakery.

The more I think about it, though, the more I suspect some amount of authorial exaggeration.
posted by BT at 10:53 AM on November 1, 2001

I have no problem with the session, but why would any college be requiring its students to go to sex ed classes? I frankly don't see how it is the school's concern that I know the value of giving head.
posted by obfusciatrist at 10:54 AM on November 1, 2001

As a MeFi resident & Dartmouth graduate, I can remember some basic sex ed during orientation. It was nothing so memorable as this, however.

Incoming students have various levels of experience with alcohol, drugs, sex, etc. so the idea is to level-set the students with some basic information. I don't remember any of the details because I had a pretty extensive sex-ed in middle & high school.

Also, there was little that was mandatory during orientation, but everyone tends to go to as many events as possible because one is new to the whole experience and is trying to get a handle on everything at once.

It's also important to remember that this article is from The Dartmouth Review and is the non-Dartmouth-affiliated conservative newspaper that got into trouble in the '90s for publishing parts of Mein Kampf, including many other stupidities.

The official student newspaper is The Dartmouth
posted by gen at 10:55 AM on November 1, 2001

It was like FilePile without the kitties.

Could there ever be a yin without a yang?
posted by jpoulos at 10:56 AM on November 1, 2001

siW: It was mandatory for all freshmen. Some, though, did leave partway through.

More than simple prudeness, the writer's opinion seems to be that 1) the talk did go beyond the realm of good taste and 2) as an educational event, little information was transmitted (and none that students probably didn't already know. Condoms? That one's a shocker.). Instead, the speaker basically spent the hour or so promoting promiscuous sex and giving unsavory details from her own sex life.

It might have made a fine open event, but mandatory? And administrators refuse to call it anything other than "educational" (there was another article in the Review that isn't online) or admit that the program may have been a mistake.
posted by gdog at 11:00 AM on November 1, 2001

Why do colleges feel it's their job to educate students on STDs and the like anyway? Parents send their children to college to get an academic education. That type of thing is no more the responsibility of colleges than it is the responsibility of public schools, in my opinion.
posted by tippiedog at 11:00 AM on November 1, 2001

Seriously though - Saran Wrap? On my ass?
posted by Samsonov14 at 11:05 AM on November 1, 2001

It seems to me that it's just continued pushing of this (relatively new) idea that every human being in the world should be involved in the hottest, most fulfilling sexual relationship imaginable in which they engage in intercourse thrice daily. Which is not to say that this wouldn't be neat and all, but I'm fairly sick of tv and magazines (and now educators) trying to make all the normal people in the world feel inadequate.

And besides that, NO AMOUNT of masturbation is going to help anyone learn how to better please a woman. If it did, then all us guys would be absolute heroes in the sack.
posted by glenwood at 11:09 AM on November 1, 2001

tippie, of course; it's better for people to learn about sex from their friends, after all.
posted by moz at 11:11 AM on November 1, 2001

I remember the days when sex was supposed to be special.

Can't this society find a happy medium between repression and stupidity?

And yes there is one....
posted by bunnyfire at 11:14 AM on November 1, 2001

"It feels like a warm, wet vagina."

Speaking strictly as a straight guy, there's no way I'm NOT going to click on that. A lb. of room-temp liver to our man gdog for a great front-page link.
posted by luser at 11:30 AM on November 1, 2001

Or woman. And make it a wisconsin summer sausage, or something. I don't know.
posted by luser at 11:31 AM on November 1, 2001

Perhaps repressing the stupidity? Hey....wait! That was SUPPOSED to be a flip comment.

Damn. Now I sound reasonable.

fellatio sucks! Maybe that'll fix my reputation....
posted by dwivian at 11:34 AM on November 1, 2001

nb: the first thing that you find out about this woman is that she's overweight. not surprising, since it's from a so-shocked dartmouthite, but come on people.
posted by maura at 11:37 AM on November 1, 2001

Bunnyfire, repression is not the opposite of stupidity. Freedom is. It just sounds bad to say, "a middle ground between repression and freedom."
posted by Doug at 11:38 AM on November 1, 2001

I wonder if the schools have made these classes mandatory because of lawsuits from date rape, STDs, etc.? Silly either way.
posted by owillis at 12:13 PM on November 1, 2001

Masterbation with the Condom? WTF? The idea of spending money to spank it is just rediculous.
posted by delmoi at 12:29 PM on November 1, 2001

i. am. dying. here.

(moan)
posted by adampsyche at 12:30 PM on November 1, 2001

Building on maura's statement, wonder what would have been written if it was a porn star type giving this talk?
posted by melissa at 12:31 PM on November 1, 2001

Every "mandatory" event at my college wasn't strictly mandatory. You were supposed to be there, but no one was taking attendance - they just call these things mandatory so people will go.

tippiedog: If we don't have consistent, informative, and accurate STD information in schools, where should it be? Even if I'm a good parent and teach my child the right stuff, what's to say his girlfriend won't convince him otherwise? "No, baby, I can't get pregnant on the second time..." Of course graphic how-tos aren't appropriate in state-sanctioned classrooms, but college? Hell, I know there are a lot of people here that could have benefitted from some instruction.
posted by phoenix enflamed at 12:34 PM on November 1, 2001

I think the guy who wrote this article sounds like a pussy. Or no...wait...sounds like..um...wet slapping sounds on saran wrap? This five condo thing sounds rather interesting though....
posted by hellinskira at 12:40 PM on November 1, 2001

fat. middle-aged. porn. star. dart. mouth. liver.

Hell, I know there are a lot of people here that could have benefitted from some instruction. how did you find out about that? hey it was my first time and the restraining order expired like 3 months ago.
posted by danOstuporStar at 12:45 PM on November 1, 2001

Even if I'm a good parent and teach my child the right stuff, what's to say his girlfriend won't convince him otherwise?

People are responsible for their own actions, you know. I have no problem with schools teaching sex ed, at the approval of the parents. But there's only so far you can pass the buck when the human mind and hormones are involved.
posted by owillis at 12:45 PM on November 1, 2001

"Vulva parties"? Oh, honestly....you girls don't really do that, do you?
posted by alumshubby at 12:51 PM on November 1, 2001

In this country we are fortunate to have sex ed, when there are communities around the world that have no idea how AIDS is spread, hence the alarmingly high infection rate in places like Africa. I think this is a little different though, and being told to apply a liver to my penis doesn't really fit under the bill. It sure was funny, though.

Of course graphic how-tos aren't appropriate in state-sanctioned classrooms,

We had that in school. I went to a Jesuit school, and they at had to give The Church's (TM) view, but they did tell us pretty much everything we needed to know. Does this all remind you of that Monty Python script? Which movie was that, where the teacher demonstrated with his wife?
posted by adampsyche at 12:54 PM on November 1, 2001

warning: minority mefi opinion ahead:


I suppose that none of u has the slightest understanding that sex is a lot more than someone just having an orgasm.....

but I am not in the mood to be mocked or flamed so I will simply leave that comment for you all to think upon....

again, I am not anti sex nor am I a prude....just a very happy bunny...
posted by bunnyfire at 12:55 PM on November 1, 2001

Maria (middle–aged and fat; the Orientation booklet states no last name)
First, I'm kinda sure that if your parents pay a fortune to get you a good education you should have the right to listen to more interesting lectures than that (to gather info about condom-masturbation and Saran Wrap techniques and cherry condoms and stuff like that there's always girlie magazines and adult cable television, right?)
But I still can't see why the writer should IMMEDIATELY mention that the lecturer was "middle aged and fat".
Like, if the lecturer is attractive then she's authorized to be crass?
posted by matteo at 1:07 PM on November 1, 2001

Monty Python and the Meaning of Life
posted by ookamaka at 1:10 PM on November 1, 2001

bunny:

if you aren't in the mood to be "mocked or flamed," then you should not claim that "none of u has the slightest understanding that sex is a lot more than ... having an orgasm." not only is it irresponsible to say something like that in a hit-and-run, what you said was is ignorant. i'm very tired of people who say things to the effect of "you all suck" or "you're all wrong" and then claim the moral high road by concluding "but i have no time to waste in this conversation."
posted by moz at 1:18 PM on November 1, 2001

Everyone's waiting until COLLEGE to learn this stuff???

Allright people, I want everyone - and I mean EVERYONE, bunnyfire! - to pair off and start getting it on. That's right, don't stand around looking stupid, pick someone and get busy! You heard me! Put that saran wrap DOWN you monkey, this ain't cooking class! And we are going to KEEP doing it until you people get it RIGHT!
posted by UncleFes at 1:20 PM on November 1, 2001

I remember the days when sex was supposed to be special.

I suppose that none of u has the slightest understanding that sex is a lot more than someone just having an orgasm.....

Oh, now I see the light. If only I had been born X number of years ago, back when people were having "special" sex rather than all these empty orgasms I keep encountering.

This is condescending fogeyism. Does it really elude you that it is genuinely possible to love sex, think it is at its best when shared with someone "special," and still not have a real problem with a presentation like this?
posted by Skot at 1:20 PM on November 1, 2001

I want all you men to use saran wrap to envelop your ass and penis — girls too.

Girls with penises? That Maria is full of surprises. Or, something.
posted by verdezza at 1:32 PM on November 1, 2001

I suppose that none of u has the slightest understanding that sex is a lot more than someone just having an orgasm.....

but I am not in the mood to be mocked or flamed so I will simply leave that comment for you all to think upon....

I searched high and low, and for the love of all that is sacred, pure, and holy, i can not find, for the life of me, a single word in this thread that would give an ounce of support for your generalizations. Thank you. I am now thinking, like you so boldy instructed us.
posted by adampsyche at 1:52 PM on November 1, 2001

Maria rocks. The journalist was stupid, why does he mention that she is "fat". The moaning may have been a little weird and I don't know many women who would go to a pussy party, but she's right about communication, eating pussy and all that. Oh well, Jocyln Elders got fired for recommending people spank it.
posted by archeopterix at 1:54 PM on November 1, 2001

"(Ann Arbor, Michigan) Community High senior's vagina costume earns suspension: But his classmates gave him first prize in costume contest."
posted by Carol Anne at 2:23 PM on November 1, 2001

Well, excuuuuuse me for posting when I didn't have time to be more detailed....

I am happily married, and i do mean happily, and I am sick and tired of what this society is projecting about sex.

I know from experience that two people, married to one another, who do not have to worry about sexually transmitted diseases, can experience a lot more joy, fun, and real connection than any amount of what this society says a sex life should be....

I mean, come on, don't you people think all this talk about liver and its extracurricular uses degrading?
That is what I mean. No, I do not want things to go back the way they were when sex was something to be tittered about , where "nice girls" weren't "concerned" about things like that.... to me that is an equal abomination.

So let me say this :

SEX IS GOOD.

But I also happen to believe it is to be respected, and in MY world view, it is something sacred....given by God not only for procreation and bonding, but also to represent a higher mystery.......

so that's my opinion, and i am sticking with it.

ps: Let me assure you my husband is a VERY happy man.
posted by bunnyfire at 2:45 PM on November 1, 2001

Well, excuuuuuse me for posting when I didn't have time to be more detailed....

I am happily married, and i do mean happily, and I am sick and tired of what this society is projecting about sex.

I know from experience that two people, married to one another, who do not have to worry about sexually transmitted diseases, can experience a lot more joy, fun, and real connection than any amount of what this society says a sex life should be....

I mean, come on, don't you people think all this talk about liver and its extracurricular uses degrading?
That is what I mean. No, I do not want things to go back the way they were when sex was something to be tittered about , where "nice girls" weren't "concerned" about things like that.... to me that is an equal abomination.

So let me say this :

SEX IS GOOD.

But I also happen to believe it is to be respected, and in MY world view, it is something sacred....given by God not only for procreation and bonding, but also to represent a higher mystery.......

so that's my opinion, and i am sticking with it.

ps: Let me assure you my husband is a VERY happy man.
posted by bunnyfire at 2:45 PM on November 1, 2001

"also to represent a higher mystery"

Well if you were to take the f**ckin classes, it wouldn't be a mystery anymore, would it?

I'm sick and tired of what this society is projecting about sex, too. You know, that it's supposed to be between married people only, that we shouldn't talk about it or think about it, that doing whatever you want with other consenting adults is somehow wrong.

And forget about the liver. Get a pickle.
posted by yesster at 2:58 PM on November 1, 2001

Anyone ever figure that perhaps the story is complete bullshit? No WAY would this happen in a University setting. Lawsuit! Lawsuit!
Perhaps she was explicit, but I bet the author took a little journalistic freedom in writing this. I mean, COME ON!
posted by aacheson at 3:26 PM on November 1, 2001

Bunnyfire, I hope you and your husband continue to have wonderful, special, sacred sex. However, I don't have the same world view as you. It's very condescending to assume that because my opinion is different than yours that I haven't thought about the issue, or lack a level of understanding. You're found something that works for you, and I've found things that work for me.
Namely, anal beads.
posted by Doug at 3:37 PM on November 1, 2001

Why is that when I see a bunnyfire post I get a mental picture of the psychic/medium midget chick from Poltergeist?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:37 PM on November 1, 2001

I've been home for a few hours, and with the help of a few coors lights and a girlfriend with a sense of adventure, I tried the Saran Wrap thing. Let me say this: Don't bother. It makes your ass all sweaty.

By the way, before someone else brings this up, I realize that many of you won't know what grosser, the coors light or the sweaty ass. For the record, it's a tie.
posted by Samsonov14 at 4:11 PM on November 1, 2001

Another view of sex and sexuality at Dartmouth College (and on GroupieCentral.com) these days: Hey, Frat Boy! Meet the Groupies.
posted by Carol Anne at 4:14 PM on November 1, 2001

Yesster, I talk about it, and I think about it.

But what I am NOT thinking about is whether I could have an STD, or whether my partner gives a damn about me or not....

We have truly lost something when most people think of sex as an itch to be scratched. Yes I am a Christian, and I consider unmarried sex to be against the will of God-you know, the Deity that came up with the whole idea of sex in the first place-....but do you really have to be a Christian to see that sex has a higher context?

Or are all men really just dogs -like my female coworkers proclaim?
posted by bunnyfire at 4:16 PM on November 1, 2001

Bunny, don't be silly.

I've been going out with my girlfriend for a bit more than 2 and a half years, and the sex is pretty cool. There's a lot of love in it, and it's great.

But there's also that crazy no-strings-attached kind of sex that I think a lot of us experienced in college. Just because you're having sex with someone who you don't know all that well doesn't mean it's a bad idea, as long as you're smart about it.

Sex sometimes is like an itch to be scratched. But you have to be careful about scratching it. Like when you have chicken pox, and you don't practice caution and restraint, you'll end up with a scar.
posted by Samsonov14 at 4:25 PM on November 1, 2001

Funniest. Thread. Ever.

{catches breath}

OK, it was just pretty good. Thanks. Especially Samsonov.
posted by dhartung at 4:31 PM on November 1, 2001

Tangina, that was her name. Maybe it was the post title and not bunnyfire after all...how Freudian...
posted by obiwanwasabi at 4:32 PM on November 1, 2001

"a happy medium between repression and stupidity"

I want that on a t-shirt.
posted by rodii at 4:55 PM on November 1, 2001

That's right, don't stand around looking stupid, pick someone and get busy!

Oh, great, UncleFes! This is gonna be just like PE in gradeschool...nobody's gonna pick me! Thanks for the nightmare.
posted by rushmc at 5:07 PM on November 1, 2001

ps: Let me assure you my husband is a VERY happy man.

fyi: I don't care.

And methinks the lady doth protest too much.
posted by rushmc at 5:09 PM on November 1, 2001

This is the most inane stuff I have ever read. I never wanted to know this much about the sex lives of MeFites. Never. The sacred sex, the anal beads, the saran wrap, it's just All.Too.Much. Please people, think of the children.
posted by Dreama at 5:38 PM on November 1, 2001

ps: Let me assure you my husband is a VERY happy man.

fyi: I don't care.

Nice one old bean!

Seriously though, Bunny, no one really cares how wonderful your sex life is. Hell, I'm the last person whose going to be giving a damn that your husband is VERY happy.

You can have your conceptions (no pun intended) of sex, and I'll have mine. That is how this whole "freedom of choice" thing works, or am I wrong?
posted by Dark Messiah at 5:41 PM on November 1, 2001

Dreama: don't get me started about the expired marmalade and peach preserves. Or, if you like it rough, just throw some sand in the vaseline! Mwahahaha!!
posted by Dark Messiah at 5:42 PM on November 1, 2001

Darn it....the thread degeneration begins.
Thread starts: Franken disses Oprah--->thread evolves: is Oprah's book club good or not? Is Franken cool or not?---> thread degenerates: books I think should be on Oprah.
Thread starts: Terry Goodkind, blah blah blah---> thread continues--->Terry Goodkind is overrated--->thread degenerates: authors I think are better than Terry Goodkind.
Here: Thread starts--->Whoa, explict sex ed---> thread evolves: This sex ed was tacky/author irritating prude--->thread degenerates: How I have better sex, spiritually and physically.

[For the record: I am a frequent contributor to the decadent phase]
posted by Charmian at 5:45 PM on November 1, 2001

We have truly lost something when most people think of sex as an itch to be scratched.

And yet, many people think that we have really gained something in sexual freedom.

but do you really have to be a Christian to see that sex has a higher context?

You don't have to be Christian, and just because you're Christian doesn't mean you do. I know a lot of Christians who are sexually free. It's not a Christian/heretic thing.

Or are all men really just dogs -like my female coworkers proclaim?

Hey, I know just as many women who are sexually free. It's not a man/woman thing...
posted by fooljay at 5:50 PM on November 1, 2001

Whoops. My "here" link didn't work as planned, even though it worked just fine in the preview. Oh, that's why...there's a base href on this page, but not the preview page. Lovely. Sorry.
posted by CrayDrygu at 5:54 PM on November 1, 2001

aacheson: I'm fairly sure the story's not bullshit. Three years ago at American University my freshman class was subjected to this woman, I believe, or someone remarkably like her.

The flavored condoms, the pussylick positivity. She seems to have raunched it up a bit since then, but when my mouth drops open, the presentation must be extraordinarily perverse.

We were amused, as I recall. "Name your pussy! Buy a speculum!" And the discussion continued on my dormitory floor, post-program, for the next 8 months.
posted by juniper at 5:54 PM on November 1, 2001

-my final post on this thread(wild cheers erupt!.....)

Why is it everybody can talk about saran wrap and unorthodox uses for liver but the moment I talk about a happy husband everyone is mortified????

see you on the feminist baby thread.....
posted by bunnyfire at 5:55 PM on November 1, 2001

Why is it everybody can talk about saran wrap and unorthodox uses for liver but the moment I talk about a happy husband everyone is mortified????

Ooh, she's got you there, folks.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 6:13 PM on November 1, 2001

Why is it everybody can talk about saran wrap and unorthodox uses for liver but the moment I talk about a happy husband everyone is mortified????

Because the saran wrap and liver is funny. It's outrageous, though not unrealistic, and therefore funny. I honestly don't want horrible realistic details about your sex life, or anyone else's.
posted by Dark Messiah at 6:24 PM on November 1, 2001

CrayDrygu: What are you wearing?
posted by verdezza at 6:30 PM on November 1, 2001

"Please people, think of the children."

Dreama, that's disgusting.
posted by Doug at 6:59 PM on November 1, 2001

bunnyfire: happy husbands (and wives) are great things. It's just when someone says that the married-in-the-eyes-of-God couple is the *only* way to appreciate sex, it's absolutely silly--it's like saying that the *only* way to appreciate food is to eat it with solid gold flatware.
Hey, if it makes you feel better to have exchanged rings and to have a priest give you his blessing, more power to you. But respect others who've chosen a different path--leave the judgment to the Lord, if He even gives a wet slap. (And don't forget, there are a *lot* of unhappy marriages out there.)
posted by darukaru at 7:18 PM on November 1, 2001

I just read on Drudge that Rosie O'Donnel like bush. Didn't we already know this?
posted by RavinDave at 7:45 PM on November 1, 2001

if He even gives a wet slap

Kinky shit with God...is that better than the liver thing?
posted by hellinskira at 7:48 PM on November 1, 2001

Why is it everybody can talk about saran wrap and unorthodox uses for liver but the moment I talk about a happy husband everyone is mortified????

Who's mortified? I want details! What do you two do together?
posted by rodii at 9:02 PM on November 1, 2001

-my final post on this thread

I doubt it...

So anyway, a buddy of mine used to talk about this "trick" he'd do with an alka-seltzer tablet.....

What?
posted by jpoulos at 9:07 PM on November 1, 2001

"Vulva parties"? Oh, honestly....you girls don't really do that, do you?

Yep, we sure do. In fact, there's one going on just behind that door over there...*slam*

Girls! We got another one!
posted by kittyloop at 9:34 PM on November 1, 2001

I'm going to support (or if you prefer puns, stick up for) bunnyfire (and in a sense, CrayDrygu) here. My very limited sexual experience spans from a partner who was fun, but mostly a novelty (i.e., my first) to a partner who I really clicked with and whose company I enjoyed. The first was regrettable for everything except the bit about not being a virgin anymore (and not having to explain it to everyone and deal with their looks of pity or, sometimes, revulsion). The latter was a lot of fun and had meaning. I`d imagine sex with someone I was really in love with would be mind-blowing.

This relates to bunnyfire in that it seems to me she started at the "mind-blowing sex with soulmate" level, never dealing with the "sex with attractive acquaintance followed by lots of awkwardness and wondering about one`s sexuality because the experience was so bad" phase.

I`m jealous. I don`t think either bunnyfire nor CrayDrygu would step down a level. Nor do I expect that they would tell anybody else that any sex is good sex, as long as you`re getting some. Good for both of them.

Link related:

The problem with this sort of sex education is that, in going as far as she can to shock people, she may open a few minds to "sexual liberation" but she`s drawing attention far away from what seems to be the most critical issues. Once you`re aware of the basic biology, it comes down to "know yourself and listen to your partner."

No lecture like this is going to convince someone who doesn't already care that their partner's satisfaction is important. And you can`t just say "all women like this" or "all men like that" because it's simply not true. I`d bet this sort of thing does more harm than good.
posted by chiheisen at 10:24 PM on November 1, 2001

did you ever wonders what happens when you just start drinking something and you bust out laughing? the answer is your breath causes the beverage to spash up into your eye. and if there's vodka in that beverage, it stings.

i'm just saying.
posted by palegirl at 10:55 PM on November 1, 2001

This relates to bunnyfire in that it seems to me she started at the "mind-blowing sex with soulmate" level, never dealing with the "sex with attractive acquaintance

Never assume. Whether she stepped "down," "up," or "sideways," she admits to some steppin':

I used to sleep around when I was a stupid single back in the seventies. I did not enjoy it. Thread 11097 (I don't know how to link to a specific comment in a thread, sorry.)
posted by rushmc at 11:05 PM on November 1, 2001

Is it an urban myth that if you wear contact lenses and splash alcohol into your eye, it can denature the protein in your cornea and leave you unable to see outta that eye? Since some sort of protective natural coating is killed by wearing the contact, is what is in my brain for some reason.

I'm just asking.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:11 AM on November 2, 2001

Here are my thoughts on it:

1) Having that speaker speak was their (Dartmouth's) first mistake.

2) Making it mandatory for anyone, but especially freshmen, some of whom were international students from countries where this sort of thing is completely unheard of, was their second.

I don't feel that sex education is appropriate, and go ahead and call me a prude or a "right-wing wacko" or whatever the term of the hour is. Using my own life experience as a guide to determine what is right or wrong, I solidly stand on the side of sex after marriage, and not getting married just to have sex. However you want to take issue with that, you must admit that two people who get married as virgins (that means no sex at all, not just the "we didn't technically have it because we did it in the..." or what-have-you) and have a monogamous relationship for the rest of their lives have an almost zero chance of contracting an STD (except of course, if someone put infected pubic hairs in their salad at a restaurant or something). That is an inarguable point, and I like to start with those when possible. Not to mention the fact that if you don't have anything to compare sex to, you won't be able to say, "oh so and so was better than my wife/husband--too bad I can't be with them," which is yet another argument in the favor of monogamous, post-marital coitus.
posted by Totally80sGirl at 4:12 AM on November 2, 2001

totally80sgirl: how wonderful for you if this is your reality. guess what? it's not everyone else's -- there are people who DO feel the need to act on their hormones and who might not always have access to things that would aid them in this endeavour. did you ever stop to think that good sex ed might lower the number of abortions and sexually transmitted infections? and i'm not just talking abstinence only sex ed, which has a very high failure rate from kids who think blowjobs/handjobs/anal sex/fill in the blank isn't real sex. look at statistics for teenage pregnancy and vd in countries that have good sex ed classes (amsterdam, france, holland, etc). then look at our statistics. BIG difference. yes, we should support kids who are able to control this urge, but we should also make options available for kids who can't or don't want to.

remember becky bell. that's all i'm saying.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:27 AM on November 2, 2001

I think the no sex until marriage thing is silly. Unhealthy, too, maybe. After years and years of only having had sex with one person, ever, something's got to give. There have got to be men and women out there who have "saved" themselves till they got married who are bored out of their wits ten years later, and just dying to see what fucking somebody, anybody else is like.

Also, what if two idealistic young scamps who've saved their virginities for their wedding night find out that they're sexually incompatible after it's too late and they're hitched? It could happen...
posted by andnbsp at 5:56 AM on November 2, 2001

Yes, Becky Bell -- chose not to use contraceptives, chose to lie to her parents, sneak out of state, have a non-medical abortion performed by a hack artist with filthy instruments, chose to ignore the fact that she felt like hell for days afterward and subsequently, died. I don't know what kind of education can counter that kind of counter-intuitive ignorance. I don't think she's the poster child for anything save the tragedies that can arise from refusing to appropriately address the consequences of your actions.

Besides, is a woman who jumps around on a stage exhorting 18 year olds to experiment with saran wrap a sex educator or a sex promoter? Is she giving people the facts that they need to enter the realm of adult sex responsibly, or is she merely advocating a particular brand of sex? Is she arming them with knowledge or titillating them with funky ideas?
posted by Dreama at 6:02 AM on November 2, 2001

why would any college be requiring its students to go to sex ed classes?

The reason colleges often try to have some sort of semi-mandatory sex ed is generally because they are in some ways subsidizing the students' health care and in hippie schools like the one I went to, once a few bed hoppers get STDs, it quickly becomes an expensive epidemic. So, making sure everyone is starting with the same baseline knowledge is a public health issue, not just a private one. You should, however, be able to fill out a form that says "I never get any, I am excused from sex ed" Then there's boosterism and that seems to cross a line [as dreama said while I was typing] and making hype mandatory to listen to seems rude.

but, there's facts and opinions. I think we can agree that knowing how to prevent STDs is good, not being ashamed of the sex you decide to have is good, and that there's a limit to how much we want to know about others' sex lives. However, I'm sure that limit varies.

FWIW, I didn't have sex with my husband until after we were married, but I'm sure glad I had other people to compare him to when I did.
posted by jessamyn at 6:19 AM on November 2, 2001

isn't there like zero chance of getting an STD if you limit your relations only to other species too, no matter how promiscuous you are?

also i think if you only eat Ritz© crackers all your life you practically habe no chance of food poisoning.

personally, though, i enjoy a nice Wheatables© every now and again---some of those fancy european crackers are quite nice too---i've even put sardines on them sometimes. but never---i mean never (except that one time)--do i eat the sardines after the can has been left open on the radiator for a month. i think i play it pretty safe.
posted by danOstuporStar at 6:23 AM on November 2, 2001

a happy medium between repression and stupidity
new mefi tagline anyone?

personally, i use a large vibrating egg
posted by rorycberger at 6:24 AM on November 2, 2001

Is it an urban myth that if you wear contact lenses and splash alcohol into your eye, it can denature the protein in your cornea and leave you unable to see outta that eye?

I don't know about that, but when you put blue food coloring in your contacts, people look at you funny. And they look funny too. Like smurfs. With anal beads and saran wrap over their non-specific genitals. Oh yeah, I am going out for pancakes for lunch today. Anyone coming?
posted by adampsyche at 6:58 AM on November 2, 2001

and not getting married just to have sex

do people actually do that?
posted by jpoulos at 6:59 AM on November 2, 2001

Sex is natural
Sex is good
Not everybody does it
But everybody should
posted by werty at 7:43 AM on November 2, 2001

colleges don't need classes to tell students how to have sex. I think they have that figured out -- and besides, isn't that why they have ethernet connections? Just say "Hey, you don't want to get diseases or get pregnant, so here are some condoms, and try not to do it in front of your roommate while she's studying" and move on to not putting up your Rage Against the Machine poster with putty or playing your music loud in the middle of the night.
posted by dagnyscott at 7:56 AM on November 2, 2001

colleges don't need classes to tell students how to have sex. I think they have that figured out -- and besides, isn't that why they have ethernet connections? Just say "Hey, you don't want to get diseases or get pregnant, so here are some condoms, and try not to do it in front of your roommate while she's studying" and move on to not putting up your Rage Against the Machine poster with putty or playing your music loud in the middle of the night.
posted by dagnyscott at 7:56 AM on November 2, 2001

dreama:
1. becky bell "chose to lie to her parents" because of the oppressive parental consent laws surrounding abortion, which in turn led to her choosing to get an abortion with "filthy instruments", getting sick, and, subsequently, dying.

2. as far as her "choosing not to use contraception" -- i would argue that we shouldn't have to tell our girls things like "yes, you CAN get pregnant the first time", "yes, you should take proper precautions even if he tells you he's sterile," etc. but in this case someone needed to be told that with dire results.
3. link-related: i believe in sex ed, but this seems rather out there. "hey, sex has physical risks, use condoms. you know this, and you can get supplies in the student health office."
posted by pxe2000 at 8:18 AM on November 2, 2001

Don't you guys know how to close a bold tag??
posted by fooljay at 3:11 PM on November 2, 2001

Jesus, it's not a bold tag or an inline style declaration. Weird... If this doesn't worked, then I'll be fooked...
posted by fooljay at 3:16 PM on November 2, 2001

Whew!
posted by fooljay at 3:16 PM on November 2, 2001

and not getting married just to have sex

do people actually do that?

Yep. I wouldn't go so far as to say that's the only reason, but I've seen many young relationships accelerate to marriage simply because the people involved couldn't wait any longer. From a religious viewpoint, it makes sense. You don't want to shame God/your parents/your peers by having premarital sex, so you get married as early as possible. Everyone's happy, theoretically speaking.
posted by brookedel at 4:05 PM on November 2, 2001

why is it so wrong to go with the sexual instincts that God gave you? If he didn't want you to do anything till age x, why do you have instinct to do these things at an early age?

It just doesn't make sense to me.
posted by andryeevna at 12:44 AM on November 3, 2001

This is wretchedly off-topic, but puh-lease:

1. becky bell "chose to lie to her parents" because of the oppressive parental consent laws surrounding abortion, which in turn led to her choosing to get an abortion with "filthy instruments", getting sick, and, subsequently, dying.

No, Becky Bell chose to lie to her parents because she was too afraid to own her actions and live up to the truth. She lied because she was afraid of her own parents who have spent the years since her death trumpeting the strength of their relationship with her. The law didn't force her to lie, the law didn't force her to sneak out of state, the law didn't force her to be butchered. The law simply said that if she was under 18, a minor, her parents would have to consent before she had an invasive surgical procedure, without exception for abortion. There are limits as to what those who are legally children can and cannot do -- Becky made the decision to try to work around those limits with extremely tragic results, but she wasn't forced to that end by any means.
posted by Dreama at 1:15 AM on November 3, 2001

even more "wrtechedly off topic":

there is no convincing you, dreama, is there?

i hope nothing happens where the trust your kids have in you is tested like this.
posted by pxe2000 at 8:07 AM on November 3, 2001

In 1992 at Vassar, the first-year sex orientation talk wasn't mandatory, but most people attended. It was given during the second afternoon of freshman orientation by a 20-year-old upperclassman. I was an 18-year-old from a Massachusetts suburb learning for the first time about rimming, fisting, water sports, strap-on dildos, and how to make a dental dam out of a rubber glove (guidelines on how best to cut up the glove "and remember to use your tongue on the side without the powder"). It was a bit weird, but no one noticeably freaked out. All the kids maintained the cool, disaffected, nonchalant pose that they would perfect during their collegiate years. I suppose Vassar is a bit weird as far as colleges go. The most popular party every year was The Homo-Hop (some details are exposed in the article I wrote for the college paper in '94). Another infamous campus party was the cooperative dorm's annual masterbation party, during which the all the furniture was covered in saran wrap in order to ensure easy clean-up. But we never felt that our school was overly deviant; someone was always reminding everyone that nearby Wesleyann had a clothing-optional dorm. And of course, there were always some much more odd sexual stories about students at Hampshire and Bard. Dartmouth, on the other hand, always had the reputation of being overwhelmingly conservative...
posted by popvulture at 1:10 AM on November 5, 2001

Sex is natural
Sex is fun
Sex is best when it's
One on one
posted by werty at 2:25 PM on November 5, 2001

Don't you guys and girls think it's curious there is so much talking about sex and so much less action ?

I mean, as long as you know that

1) you can get diseases if you don't use a condom or
you may even die of aids , then use a condom for G'Shake
or pay your ignorance with disease or life. Get more information on safe sex everywhere on the internet !!

2) sex is natural ! Yes it is every mammal being on earth
is doing it. Humans are mammals, so what's the big news ?

3) Sex is fun, isn't addictive as drugs and you got a billion
potential partners out there. Don't become discouraged if you don't find one in a snap.

4) You just need to take care of not becoming dependant of sex : I mean if your guy/girl is paying you with sex to obtain something other then sex, he/she is wrong and u must leave him/her asap. Just like love is paid with love, sex is paid with sex.

5) Unfortunately it's hard to understand if sex = love or sex not = love. It's a personal experience. Nobody on the planet probably has a definitive answer on that topic.

then you already know a lot..we can surely learn more but I guess that sex needs more practicing then talking.
posted by elpapacito at 6:53 AM on November 9, 2001