Obese people may get an extra seat for free

February 21, 2002 2:59 PM

Obese people may get an extra seat for free when they catch a flight in Canada, following an unprecedented legal ruling that is rattling the airline industry.
posted by obiwanwasabi (41 comments total)

Having been assigned a seat next to a practical Jabba The Hut, a man who completely oozed out of his seat and into my own, I am thankful. Especially because I'm stocky enough to fit my seat firmly.

LUCKILY, he had his daughter on the flight in another seat, and offered to switch places. Thank God. I wouldn't have been able to STAND IT.
I don't care what they say. It is unfair to make me sit next to someone who can't fit in a conventionally sized seat!
posted by jmccorm at 3:13 PM on February 21, 2002

Strange - there was a story today in one of the british tabloids about a passenger who needed an extra seat because he was obese - when he got on the plane he found that the seats reserved for him were in two different rows and on opposite sides of the aisle.

Not that i read tabloid newspapers.
posted by Spoon at 3:13 PM on February 21, 2002

The airlines should prefer an occasional free seat to the added cost of retrofitting even a limited number of properly-sized seats. Of course, this leaves open the question of how it will be determined who is obese enough to need an extra seat. One would hope that the airlines would defer to the other customers such as jmccorm in such cases, but I wouldn't count on it.

But I still think they should be required to have a certain number of oversize seats, even though I know it opens up its own can of worms, e.g. the passenger who demands one but isn't, um, wide enough -- he just wants extra room.
posted by dhartung at 3:26 PM on February 21, 2002

The trouble is people are opportunistic, lazy, and self-centered. Just as a High Court ruling prohibiting the execution of the mentally retarded would lead to capital offenders falling all over themselves to prominently display their profound lack of cereberation, extra-wide or free seats will lead to loud claims of fatness, fake fatness, or --worse case-- people actually intentionally increasing their girth in order to snag a comfy seat. You think I jest, but I'm a frequent flyer and people will do *anything* for an upgrade.

Then the inevitable flurry of lawsuits when people who have 'bulked up for comfort' have a heart attack or something that they can lay at the feet of the airline industry. Hey, it's America. Give us an inch and we'll make ourselves fat enough to fill that inch up.

...and then sue you.
posted by umberto at 3:55 PM on February 21, 2002

> when he got on the plane he found that the seats
> reserved for him were in two different rows and on
> opposite sides of the aisle.

They could just as well have made two trips for him.
posted by jfuller at 3:55 PM on February 21, 2002

what's next, free drinks for alcoholics?
posted by tsarfan at 4:08 PM on February 21, 2002

umberto, that is the most insane theory I've ever heard. I don't know how I feel about this ruling, but if there's on thing I'm absolutely sure of, it wont lead to people becoming morbidly obese just to get a more comfy seat. I mean, if someone wanted an upgrade that bad, they could just buy a wheelchair on ebay and pretend to be disabled.
posted by Doug at 4:10 PM on February 21, 2002

Private airlines should just be allowed to charge people with a larger girth more money for a larger seat. There would probably be a large market for such a thing, although the stigma attached to getting the "fat seat" would probably be too much for most people to bear. So, in retrospect, the airline should, the way they fit bags for overhead compartments, have a people-sized standard. Then they can charge people bigger than the standard for the second seat (perhaps at a discounted price).

I still think the first idea would be in the end cheaper for the consumer, though.
posted by insomnyuk at 4:10 PM on February 21, 2002

I just think it sucks that some who's 5' 1" and 6' 3" both get the same economy class seat.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:12 PM on February 21, 2002

Doug, it won't do so directly. Buy Umberto is quite right all the same. More sympathy and recognition of obesity will allow some obese people to feel comfortable with themselves. It is for this reason that the need for extra space, however common, should be treated as an outstanding, special medical circumstance unique to the ticket buyer.

Also, if you give americans an inch, we will take a mile. Americans and Huns and sometimes Laotians too.

Dhartung - it will be determined with a big pair of calipers made from fom-core, construction paper and popsicle sticks.
posted by Settle at 4:17 PM on February 21, 2002

I have a friend who has several times --on cross-country flights-- carried a 4-legged cane so as to get preferred seating and priority boarding.

I have a cousin who shot himself in the foot to get out of the service.

I can't find a link for it, but there is some kind of club for "short little fat guys" where you have to have this very specific inseam length, height, and waist size to be a member. People have actively attempted to make themselves fatter just to join, and that involved no personal advantage whatsoever, beyond being known as 'officially' short and fat.

You think if someone is already a jiggling adipocere mass, but just under the size cap, and has to fly long distances frequently, adding a few more pounds to qualify won't occur to them? I'm not saying I'm going to zoom from 160 up to 320. But for marginal cases of frequent flyers, I think you underestimate the human ability to be absolutely insane if some suspected advantage might accrue.
posted by umberto at 4:23 PM on February 21, 2002

So, in retrospect, the airline should, the way they fit bags for overhead compartments, have a people-sized standard. Then they can charge people bigger than the standard for the second seat (perhaps at a discounted price).

"OK, what are you, 290? Larry! HEY LARRY! We got a 290 here! You! You, back there behind 290! How bout you? 98 pounds? Sorry, you're too skinny to go to Cairo.

"Anyone over 150 pounds here that wants to go to Egypt? Pyramids, Sphinxes and shit? It's beautiful! How about indentical twin midgets? We got two little tiny seats left! Step right up!"
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:38 PM on February 21, 2002

I just think it sucks that some who's 5' 1" and 6' 3" both get the same economy class seat.

The sad truth is even if you're 5'1", you're already wanting for space.
posted by BentPenguin at 4:39 PM on February 21, 2002

Having been assigned a seat next to a practical Jabba The Hut, a man who completely oozed out of his seat and into my own, I am thankful. Especially because I'm stocky enough to fit my seat firmly.

That's nothing. One time I had to sit next to this really ugly retarded guy, and he was totally DROOLING all OVER HIMSELF, and he kept LOOKING at me, but he couldn't focus very well, and oh MAN did he stink! I was so glad when that flight was over!

Sorry, but making fun of disabled people is not funny. Someone who physically requires two seats to accomodate him has problems in his life that make the minor inconvenience of having to actually (gasp) sit next to him insignificant.

Yeah, it sucks to be in a situation where your time is made more awkard, and nobody asks to do it--I mean, I would try to change seats too if I were in that position--but the dehumanization of the obese in this thread so far is more than a little alarming..
posted by Hildago at 4:52 PM on February 21, 2002

Life would be easier if we listened to Ann Coulter. Really.
posted by owillis at 5:00 PM on February 21, 2002

I would gladly sit next to an obese passenger if I could be spared from children in flight. On my last overseas flight, there was a rambunctious toddler in the seat behind me, who refused to remain seated. In fact, he preferred to jump up and down, banging his head against my seat for most of the flight. I gave several pleading looks to his mother, who was oblivious, and thought Junior was cute as all get-out.
posted by Oriole Adams at 5:02 PM on February 21, 2002

Private airlines should just be allowed to charge people with a larger girth more money for a larger seat
Don't we already have 1st class for people who pay to have larger seats and more leg room?
posted by gyc at 5:08 PM on February 21, 2002

Not to be argumentative, Hildago, but I think we are talking about the humanizing of the obese here. Mentioning that someone posseses a characteristic is not to demonize it. And if that characteristic happens to be one that intrudes in certain situations, to mention that is not to dehumanize their condition either.

To agree with OAdams about the hideousness of children on a long flight (people who cannot help their condition either) is not to declare oneself anti-childrest (?) or sound a rallying cry for youthanesia.

Very tall men expect to pay more for their pants. No one decries this as an assault upon the differently heighted. And all the PC clamor in the world ain't gonna get a tailor to charge the same amount for an extra 2 yards of cloth.

Different people --through the vicissitudes of nature-- consume resources at different rates. Most (succesful)marketplaces work on the precept that compensation is based on resource consumption, be it tangible or no. On commercial airliners, space is a resource.

And, owillis, that was one of the funniest things I've read lately.
posted by umberto at 6:08 PM on February 21, 2002

People that fat should walk.
posted by Settle at 6:42 PM on February 21, 2002

Crying children simply need the Baby Hammer.

Actually, if you wanted to, you could make the argument that since more fuel is required for heavier loads, fat people should pay more. I mean, it's not a good argument, but...

I'm really for more room for everyone, really. I mean, they tell me there was once a time when getting on a plane was a Big Deal, instead of the bus-like experience it is today. Surely the airlines could get better vacancy rates if they just removed some seats...
posted by solistrato at 8:54 PM on February 21, 2002

What the hell, when you buy a seat you want one you can fit into.
posted by semmi at 9:03 PM on February 21, 2002

ParisParamus, being a fat girl, I learned to ask for a seat next to an empty one from a tall guy. If you're a tall guy, this might be a solution. The last few times I've flown I've always been able to be seated next to an empty seat, which saves you all the absolute torture of sitting next to me. Which is no grand picnic for me either, by the way. And while I don't require two seats, I'm sure that the people who do are embarassed enough without the "people that fat should walk" comments.
posted by kittyloop at 9:12 PM on February 21, 2002

Do you think if I asked, they'd put me between two fat girls? I'm a tall guy, and I'd enjoy that.

Seriously. I'd even fly more often if I could get that. Fat girls rule.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:50 PM on February 21, 2002

sorry I asked.
posted by ParisParamus at 10:07 PM on February 21, 2002

I think it's very simple: people pay for a certain amount of "space" on the plane. Usually this is one seat and a certain weight of baggage. More baggage, more money is paid.

The same should go with seating. If you're going to take up two "units" of space, as opposed to one, you should pay twice as much.
posted by Neale at 10:10 PM on February 21, 2002

sorry, that was "you all" not you specifically, ParisParamus, in fact, not you at all. or something. i'm just up past my bedtime, and you know when the kids get tired, they're easily riled. seriously, you should try the empty seat idea, if you're not picky about where you sit in the plane.

*winks at mr. crash davis*
posted by kittyloop at 10:41 PM on February 21, 2002

If airlines are to be required to seat by girth, they should be able to charge by the pound: when you buy your ticket, you stand on a scale. Everyone would pay a certain base price, but the rest would be determined by how much precious cabin space you are going to consume (and maybe how much fuel it takes to move your carcass from A to B).

Or they could use a simple test chair: if you can't sit in it and not complain -- and not sag over into the next seat -- you have to buy a larger seat at a higher price. Waiting-room chairs could be built to the same dimensions as onboard seats, and each seat could have a price display on it. Maybe they could build a scale into the chairs, too, and then adjust the price by girth and weight.

[Hell, I need to sleep lying down. I insist the bastards give me a bed on overnight flights. And massage my weary feet. And make sure no one smelly sits next to me.]
posted by pracowity at 11:30 PM on February 21, 2002

They should replace the chairs with cones of silence.
posted by insomnyuk at 12:21 AM on February 22, 2002

And, everyone should be forced to undress, ship their clothes, go through a human x-ray machine, and wear a standard kind of hospital smock/jumpsuit for the flight, while sitting in their cone of silence. That would probably eliminate the threat of hijackings, once and for all.
posted by insomnyuk at 12:22 AM on February 22, 2002

The same should go with seating. If you're going to take up two "units" of space, as opposed to one, you should pay twice as much.

I agree, actually.
posted by rushmc at 12:47 AM on February 22, 2002

Until very recently I was obese (now, technically, merely "overweight'). I of course try to find empty seats, to sit in the aisle, etc. I can't afford first class, so for now I'll do what I can. But I do not think that my girth entitles me to anything extra. You pay for one seat, you get one seat. Measuring people as they get on the plane might be humiliating, but that's not a reason the people who are going to sit next to them should get less than what they paid for.
posted by bingo at 1:29 AM on February 22, 2002

I am with some of the other posters here.. if obese people are getting second seats, extremely tall people should be afforded some leeway also. I am only 5'4", but have been forced to sit next to extremely tall people in a variety of places (movie theaters, airplanes, buses, trains) and am always irritated that they insist on folding their legs, grasshopper style, into my seating space. I swear they seek me out. "Look, a midget. She won't mind if I have to use a third of her space!"
posted by xyzzy at 4:01 AM on February 22, 2002

Actually, I have zero interest in flying these days. I don't want to have to contemplate my horrific death. Actually, I've always felt that way, big seat or small, terrorism or none.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:17 AM on February 22, 2002

will these obese people get an extra meal with their extra seat? that would be wrong. There should be a condition that they can have an extra seat, but they dont get any food, except salt, and no water neither.

-----------------

'Baby Hammer'

Class.
posted by Frasermoo at 4:47 AM on February 22, 2002

and am always irritated that they insist on folding their legs, grasshopper style, into my seating space

Well, our only other alternative is to leave them sticking straight up in the air, yoga-style.

Stewardess, that man's feet are blocking the movie...
posted by ook at 6:51 AM on February 22, 2002

Everyone would pay a certain base price, but the rest would be determined by how much precious cabin space you are going to consume (and maybe how much fuel it takes to move your carcass from A to B).

So we penalise people for being athletes (more muscle mass = more weight than the average), for being pregnant, for being taller (which generally means weighing more) for requiring steroids to treat an illness (which can add extra pounds) in addition to penalising the fatties, who shouldn't dare to want to fly comfortably and safely too.

That's really smart thinking. Yeah, very progressive and equitable.
posted by Dreama at 7:03 AM on February 22, 2002

> So we penalise people...

Nope. Airlines would simply make people pay a fair price for a service. Very progressive and equitable.

If we were talking about shipping mail, you wouldn't complain that it costs more to ship bigger, heavier things. And airlines can and do charge more for people bringing extra bags, not to be mean, but because it costs them more to haul the extra junk around and because there's limited space and fuel on the plane.

By your own reasoning, airlines are now, by charging the same for everybody, penalizing midgets, amputees, children, the elderly, women in general, anorexics, AIDS patients, and other people who, for one reason or another, might be expected to weigh less than the average human being. Thin, sick women who weigh one hundred pounds each have to pay more so the airlines can afford to squeeze them in with professional wrestlers and McDonald's gorgers.
posted by pracowity at 7:49 AM on February 22, 2002

yah, lets make those fat people sit in the back of the bus^h ^h ^h er plane.
posted by jbelshaw at 7:55 AM on February 22, 2002

If you give fat-asses extra cargo space, then give us tall people extra leg room~!
posted by Mach3avelli at 11:16 AM on February 22, 2002

Basically, this problem exists because of airline greed. They have steadily reduced the size of seats and the space between rows over the decades, in order to squeeze in more of them. It is now to the point where anyone even slightly bigger than "average," in height or weight, is going to have a pretty miserable time on a flight unless he can afford first class, or is lucky enough to have an empty seat next to him. (Luckily, the airlines' already-horrific service has so steadily worsened since 9/11 that the chances of you getting that empty seat are quite high.) Given that it's the airlines that have been decreasing seat sizes, I don't see why the "fair resolution" is for the "fat people," or anyone who has the gall to have a genetic makeup that makes them bigger than a teenaged female gymnast, to have to pay extra.

The fair solution is actually quite simply accomplished:

a) Install single seats, each two- or three-"persons" wide, on each side of the aisle, and place armrests on them that can be slid back and forth. The two/three people assigned to those seats on every flight can then lock the armrests into place as it best suits them.

b) Allow people to move around without creating an international incident. Two 400-lb guys get assigned next to each other by random luck? Let one of them switch seats with Verne Troyer over there.
posted by aaron at 6:38 PM on February 22, 2002

I am very small (5'), and I always think that with all of the disadvantages that go along with my short stature (I can't reach anything, can't read the copier when it says that it is out of paper, can't see in movie theaters...) clothes should be cheaper for me, there is so much less material used. I didn't know that tall men pay more for their clothes. I think that perhaps small people should pay less.
And, as for seats: I think that it is still uncomfortable for me on an airplane, albeit less so, but it is a 'perk' that I get.
posted by goneill at 6:50 PM on February 22, 2002