Dot-Com Is Dot-Gone, and the Dream With It
November 25, 2001 7:34 PM Subscribe
Dot-Com Is Dot-Gone, and the Dream With It A New York Times article on the dot-com-crash.
"Each day, the old idols seem to fade further into the dim past, barely recollected in a country where the languages of "revolution" and "warfare" are no longer just business metaphors. This is the next step after the bursting of the dot-com economic bubble — the bursting of the cultural bubble, the end of the nerd as a crossover hit, of the I.P.O. zillionaire as role model to college students."
I agree that our country is in the beginning of a cultural revolution; starting with the dot-com crash last year and accelerating with 911. Am I alone or does anyone agree?
I am intrigued that the new message for being a good, patriotic citizen is to spend money. Too many science fiction stories of a dark future are coming true.
posted by fleener at 7:54 PM on November 25, 2001
posted by fleener at 7:54 PM on November 25, 2001
The dot-com revolution's dead. I think everyone agrees on that. It must be a slow news day for the New York Times to publish an article oin a topic that's been covered to death.
posted by Homeskillet Freshy Fresh at 7:55 PM on November 25, 2001
posted by Homeskillet Freshy Fresh at 7:55 PM on November 25, 2001
When I read such stories after September 11, my mind often turns to an article I excerpted from the New York Observer, just a few days before the attacks, that noted our fatigue with being successful. "Remember last autumn, when New Yorkers felt omnipotent? We had the Subway Series, a frothy, yeasty Dow, frilly, feminine fashions, serious steaks at restaurants, a Mayor who was boldly stepping out with his mistress (how French!). We were playing handball inside our lofts, the better half of Hollywood was relocating to Tribeca, women in their mid-40's were popping out babies, and the political climate was about to be dominatrixed by the smooth, competent, sexlessly reassuring Gore Girls. Well, this fall already feels like a bracing cold shower."
posted by Mo Nickels at 8:11 PM on November 25, 2001
posted by Mo Nickels at 8:11 PM on November 25, 2001
Yeah, who's gonna drive the bus now that Ken is gone?
posted by shoepal at 8:28 PM on November 25, 2001
posted by shoepal at 8:28 PM on November 25, 2001
Yadda Yadda Yadda dotcom is dead, basic laws of economics still apply, a bunch of out-of-work dotcommers are writing lousy books about how lousy they ran thier businesses, and foosball tables are not a deductible business expense. Move along you lookie-lous, nothing to see here.
Sorry, I've read enough commentaries that say the same thing. Saying that truth is more true after 9/11 does not make it new.
posted by ilsa at 8:31 PM on November 25, 2001
Sorry, I've read enough commentaries that say the same thing. Saying that truth is more true after 9/11 does not make it new.
posted by ilsa at 8:31 PM on November 25, 2001
Wrote this a while back about whether anything lasting came out of the boom, and whether resenting the people involved is/was really appropriate. Wrote this about a reporter who was all to eager to capitalize on the industry downtrend by hanging some ordinary folk out to dry. And wrote this recently about a little part of the dream that is clearly gone, something I miss, something I will keep dreaming of until it returns someday.
Is the dream gone? (first ask which one...)
1) The internet will change people's lives.
No
2) Everyone involved will become rich.
Kind of. Many did. Some even did it by innovating and creating lasting value. Lots of smart people found work there. Many (not all) of those folk are now out of work, so be kind when trashing the stupidity of the dreamer. But some of us are still plugging away in high hopes.
3) That old companies will be destroyed by new, young, dynamic webs of interconnected revolutionaries empowered to redefine value and save the soul of the consumer.
Yes. That one's over.
What does 911 have to do with any of it?
posted by scarabic at 9:07 PM on November 25, 2001
Is the dream gone? (first ask which one...)
1) The internet will change people's lives.
No
2) Everyone involved will become rich.
Kind of. Many did. Some even did it by innovating and creating lasting value. Lots of smart people found work there. Many (not all) of those folk are now out of work, so be kind when trashing the stupidity of the dreamer. But some of us are still plugging away in high hopes.
3) That old companies will be destroyed by new, young, dynamic webs of interconnected revolutionaries empowered to redefine value and save the soul of the consumer.
Yes. That one's over.
What does 911 have to do with any of it?
posted by scarabic at 9:07 PM on November 25, 2001
Isn't our country ALWAYS in a cultural revolution? Picture each decade in your mind...
1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s
they all feel completely different, sometimes based on the economy, sometimes on war, sometimes on social issues. But that's the weird thing about this country, we really seem to love change. Or is it just me?
posted by billder at 9:13 PM on November 25, 2001
1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s
they all feel completely different, sometimes based on the economy, sometimes on war, sometimes on social issues. But that's the weird thing about this country, we really seem to love change. Or is it just me?
posted by billder at 9:13 PM on November 25, 2001
Isn't our country ALWAYS in a cultural revolution? Picture each decade in your mind...
The most obvious, and yet most insightful comment in this thread. People with various vested interests are always trying to say and prove that "their" period is more interesting, more revolutionary than others.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:29 PM on November 25, 2001
The most obvious, and yet most insightful comment in this thread. People with various vested interests are always trying to say and prove that "their" period is more interesting, more revolutionary than others.
posted by ParisParamus at 9:29 PM on November 25, 2001
I agree that our country is in the beginning of a cultural revolution; starting with the dot-com crash last year and accelerating with 911
Hogwash, there may be change coming, but don't give the dot-commers who failed credit for providing the groundwork for our future. And give our society more credit for its pre-existing benevolent side than that. Business was changing all throughout the 90's and most people were not, and never have been, as self-absorbed as the young dot-commers got rewarded for being. We will not be a kinder, gentler nation because of the Web.
Every few years the world that college students are facing changes and, predictably, they change with it. When the economy is bad, grad school and Peace Corps applications rise. When it is good, Wall Street and other get-rich-quick jobs are lusted after. Anyone who graduated in the 80's as I did is not impressed with this "newfound" altruism or personal development plan of current graduates.
the new message for being a good, patriotic citizen is to spend money.
It has always been the message; there has been no need to articulate it bluntly for 10 or so years, but it's been there. Simply put, Consumption is 70% of our GDP (our economy, roughly), give or take, and guess what Consumption is?
posted by dness2 at 9:34 PM on November 25, 2001
Hogwash, there may be change coming, but don't give the dot-commers who failed credit for providing the groundwork for our future. And give our society more credit for its pre-existing benevolent side than that. Business was changing all throughout the 90's and most people were not, and never have been, as self-absorbed as the young dot-commers got rewarded for being. We will not be a kinder, gentler nation because of the Web.
Every few years the world that college students are facing changes and, predictably, they change with it. When the economy is bad, grad school and Peace Corps applications rise. When it is good, Wall Street and other get-rich-quick jobs are lusted after. Anyone who graduated in the 80's as I did is not impressed with this "newfound" altruism or personal development plan of current graduates.
the new message for being a good, patriotic citizen is to spend money.
It has always been the message; there has been no need to articulate it bluntly for 10 or so years, but it's been there. Simply put, Consumption is 70% of our GDP (our economy, roughly), give or take, and guess what Consumption is?
posted by dness2 at 9:34 PM on November 25, 2001
I agree that our country is in the beginning of a cultural revolution; starting with the dot-com crash last year and accelerating with 911. Am I alone or does anyone agree?
I'd agree that what the U.S. is going through is more than a natural evolutionary process. It is a revolution, because we are revolting (okay, I opened the door; go ahead and pile on there with yer punny comments, silly MeFiers). What are we revolting against? Our "terrorism? it can't happen here" past -- a past that was not only carefree, but, as it seems all too apparent now, careless.
I don't see how the dot-com bust is related, except for what it represents in this context: our fixation on "the good life", occupying ourselves with the comparatively trivial -- stock portfolios, celebrity worship, etc. -- as opposed to the truly important: the value and fragility of human life, everywhere in the world. (I only wish we'd get the "everywhere in the world" part down in a lasting way, but quick.)
posted by verdezza at 10:38 PM on November 25, 2001
I'd agree that what the U.S. is going through is more than a natural evolutionary process. It is a revolution, because we are revolting (okay, I opened the door; go ahead and pile on there with yer punny comments, silly MeFiers). What are we revolting against? Our "terrorism? it can't happen here" past -- a past that was not only carefree, but, as it seems all too apparent now, careless.
I don't see how the dot-com bust is related, except for what it represents in this context: our fixation on "the good life", occupying ourselves with the comparatively trivial -- stock portfolios, celebrity worship, etc. -- as opposed to the truly important: the value and fragility of human life, everywhere in the world. (I only wish we'd get the "everywhere in the world" part down in a lasting way, but quick.)
posted by verdezza at 10:38 PM on November 25, 2001
First off, I don't think that the dotcom era is over. The fact that you're discussing this on an internet message board seems absurdly ironic in that sense. For those who were involved with the internet before the web (yes, the internet existed before browsers) the revolution was always about something bigger than email and websites. It was about changing the way people think about computers and physical boundaries. In that sense, the revolution succeeded and will continue to prosper.
The crash was the result of the hype. The expectations that could never be met under any circumstances. Saying that the dotcom era is a failure is like saying the space program is a failure because we don't all live on spaceships and teleport everywhere. If the dotcom era is a failure it's strange that most experts expect online sales to increase anywhere from 40% - 70% this year.
The dotcom era is not dead, it's simply gone back to what many of us always thought it should be.
posted by billman at 12:08 AM on November 26, 2001
The crash was the result of the hype. The expectations that could never be met under any circumstances. Saying that the dotcom era is a failure is like saying the space program is a failure because we don't all live on spaceships and teleport everywhere. If the dotcom era is a failure it's strange that most experts expect online sales to increase anywhere from 40% - 70% this year.
The dotcom era is not dead, it's simply gone back to what many of us always thought it should be.
posted by billman at 12:08 AM on November 26, 2001
1) The internet will change people's lives.
No
How can you honestly say that? The internet may not have changed our culture much now. But it certanly has changed our lives greatly.
Anyway, I think that while it may not alter the laws of economics or whatever, the internet is greatly going to change our lives and culture in the long run.
posted by delmoi at 12:26 AM on November 26, 2001
No
How can you honestly say that? The internet may not have changed our culture much now. But it certanly has changed our lives greatly.
Anyway, I think that while it may not alter the laws of economics or whatever, the internet is greatly going to change our lives and culture in the long run.
posted by delmoi at 12:26 AM on November 26, 2001
delmoi: scarabic was answering "no" in response to the question is the dream gone?, so it looks like you both agree after all.
posted by moz at 12:32 AM on November 26, 2001
posted by moz at 12:32 AM on November 26, 2001
Cultural revolution? Sorry, but nope. Temporary thoughtful introspection brought on by a calamity of epic proportions? Yup. All encompassing 5000 channel television/internet universe is here to stay with all the cheesiness (oj trial) and titillation (britney) inherent in that. More than any other culture (I think), Americans have really short memories.
We're not going back to the "good old days" (good for whom anyway?). We can learn from the past but not be obsessed with returning to its values.
The economy tanks, the Dow/Nasdaq will probably be in the crapper for the next 2-3 years. A boom will come back, probably not web-centric but certainly net-related (biotech, efficient web businesses) along with other technologies.
posted by owillis at 1:07 AM on November 26, 2001
We're not going back to the "good old days" (good for whom anyway?). We can learn from the past but not be obsessed with returning to its values.
The economy tanks, the Dow/Nasdaq will probably be in the crapper for the next 2-3 years. A boom will come back, probably not web-centric but certainly net-related (biotech, efficient web businesses) along with other technologies.
posted by owillis at 1:07 AM on November 26, 2001
I think there's been a quiet cultural revolution. I just watched that Startup.com movie again the other day, and was shocked at the hubris of those people. Not only did they think their little semi-retarded idea was going to change the world, but they were able to convince the money men that they were right...
Certainly a very strange time for America...
That said, even though I've been laid off from several dotcoms and most of my ex-coworkers have left the industry entirely, I still make a good living from the internet. As a webdeveloper/community guy at a major health-oriented dotorg, we've seen nothing but growth in our services being delivered to a worldwide audience.
... so, maybe the novelty is gone, but now the internet has become part of the everyday fabric of everyday life.
posted by ph00dz at 6:35 AM on November 26, 2001
Certainly a very strange time for America...
That said, even though I've been laid off from several dotcoms and most of my ex-coworkers have left the industry entirely, I still make a good living from the internet. As a webdeveloper/community guy at a major health-oriented dotorg, we've seen nothing but growth in our services being delivered to a worldwide audience.
... so, maybe the novelty is gone, but now the internet has become part of the everyday fabric of everyday life.
posted by ph00dz at 6:35 AM on November 26, 2001
From the NYT article: Though dot-com executives might seem irrelevant these days, the technologies they sold, by and large, are not, pointed out Paul Saffo, an analyst at the Institute for the Future in Menlo Park, Calif. "People haven't stopped using the Internet," he said. "The fact is that it is changing the world, and it has changed the world." People now expect to be able to buy a book or make an airline reservation in the middle of the night, "and it's washed into the rest of their lives."
I don't think anyone here is questioning how much the Internet has changed our lives. Let me try to rephrase one aspect of what I think the originator of this thread was trying to ask -- and if you think I'm misstating the case or have any other pertinent comments, please feel free to make yourself heard...
As the economy was being driven to record heights due to the hype-heavy dot-com frenzy, we witnessed the triumph of the nerd; now that the economy has subsequently fallen, has the image and/or influence of the nerd suffered a correspondingly precipitous fall?
Anyone? Anyone?
posted by verdezza at 9:25 AM on November 26, 2001
I don't think anyone here is questioning how much the Internet has changed our lives. Let me try to rephrase one aspect of what I think the originator of this thread was trying to ask -- and if you think I'm misstating the case or have any other pertinent comments, please feel free to make yourself heard...
As the economy was being driven to record heights due to the hype-heavy dot-com frenzy, we witnessed the triumph of the nerd; now that the economy has subsequently fallen, has the image and/or influence of the nerd suffered a correspondingly precipitous fall?
Anyone? Anyone?
posted by verdezza at 9:25 AM on November 26, 2001
I don't think so. Why? Because the richest man in the world (love him or hate him) is a bonafide nerd. Besides a couple folks, I think the dotcom frenzy was more the "triumph" of the marketroids and bizdev-ers than geeks. The geeks are still running the servers...
I mean, come on we've got Nick Burns: Your Company's Computer Guy!
posted by owillis at 9:39 AM on November 26, 2001
I mean, come on we've got Nick Burns: Your Company's Computer Guy!
posted by owillis at 9:39 AM on November 26, 2001
I am intrigued that the new message for being a good, patriotic citizen is to spend money.
This is nothing new. "Buy American", "Buy War Bonds"...these are all common battle cries in times of war.
posted by glenwood at 1:18 PM on November 26, 2001
This is nothing new. "Buy American", "Buy War Bonds"...these are all common battle cries in times of war.
posted by glenwood at 1:18 PM on November 26, 2001
And maybe the music'll get better. That 90'sstuff really sucked the big one.
posted by HTuttle at 3:05 AM on November 27, 2001
posted by HTuttle at 3:05 AM on November 27, 2001
If you ask every single person in the world what they think about all the music in the world, millions of people will hate every single individual piece of music.
posted by trioperative at 8:09 PM on November 27, 2001
posted by trioperative at 8:09 PM on November 27, 2001
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