January 6, 2002

4:02 AM

From the "No good deed goes unpunished" file: What's in your pet food? (And is your first reaction upon finding out really the right one, in the long run?)
posted by Steven Den Beste (37 comments total)

What kind of article is this, no mention of PETA in it!

The one thing the article lacked I thought were people saying why they were upset about this. They had some dude say "some pet owners think of their pets as children" or something... I think it woul have been funny to read the pet owners justify getting upset about already dead cats and dogs but not otehr animals.
posted by Keen at 4:45 AM on January 6, 2002

Ahh! Can't even spell "would" correctly even with the preview option!
posted by Keen at 4:48 AM on January 6, 2002

It's cannibalism writ large. Chickens are fed ground chickens, cows are fed cow-bones in their feed and it's apparently "dog eat dog" at the lower end of the pet food industry too. It's disgusting. At least pet food manufacturers should be forced to list their ingredients more specifically. Though the dog-eat-dog competition is to blame: what do people expect for the price they're prepared to pay?

Not to mention Microsoft, of course.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 4:52 AM on January 6, 2002

How ironic that people get upset about their pets eating food that has bits of chopped-up and rendered animals in it, but they don't give a damn about eating it themselves (e.g., jello's gelatine).
posted by kv at 4:56 AM on January 6, 2002

Soylent Green... It's Poodles!! POODLES!!!!
posted by demannu at 5:00 AM on January 6, 2002

One alternative: vegetarian pets. I have no idea whether a veggie diet is really good for the pets, though. These sites say dogs can go veggie but cats can't.

Another alternative: no pets. It would be better if more people, especially city people, just didn't own pets. Animals need space.
posted by pracowity at 5:13 AM on January 6, 2002

So, anyway... When do we eat?!
posted by IXOYE at 5:23 AM on January 6, 2002

If only we'd just listened to Bob Barker, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.
posted by crunchland at 5:24 AM on January 6, 2002

My first reaction was...this is not surprising. The labeling laws regarding pet food are ridiculous. According to this article, pets were not ground up and put into pet food in this instance. Legally, they can be. Because of the lack of accurate labelling information, I've fed my very happy, healthy Newfoundland a vet supervised home-made diet for the past seven years. She is 165 pounds and will come after you if you say that it is a waste of time for me to do it. Just as soon as she finishes her broccoli.

I think that if the pet owners were upset to find this kind of thing in their pet's food, they were naive. If they didn't like the cannibalism aspect of it, I think that it is understandable. I mean, people probably made little protest t-shirts for their pets to wear on the picket line. And little visors that matched.

The cost of unspayed/neutered pets to society is horrible, however you analyze it. I don't think the real solution to the problem is rendering vs. cremation. It involves enforcement of leash laws, free spaying and neutering and a change in our ideas about how cute puppies are.

After previewing- yes, you can feed dogs vegetarian diets. My dog is an omnivore. When my dog has encountered cows in the country, she kicks their ass. I respect her wishes.
posted by colt45 at 5:31 AM on January 6, 2002

"Pet food comes from meat products classified as '4-D'. 4-D stands for Dead, Dying, Diseased and Disabled bit of meat that the government inspectors decide are not fit for human consumption. These bits include ear flaps, nose skins, toe folds, and such diseased parts of animals as lungs with ulcerated tumours on them. "
(from this site on vegetarian pet food)

Whatever happened to the real function of "doggie bags"? People have become so pc(including me, a 3-cat owner) that they now refuse to give their pets their left-overs. Pets eat from these enormous bags, all very nutritionally balanced and very boring, day in, day out.

But every time we give the bastards a bit of fish from our plates they go haywire. Things have got too simple. Methinks I'm going to change their menu...

P.S. I hope 4-D doesn't become a term of abuse among humans, as in referring to former presidents or porno queens or anything.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:35 AM on January 6, 2002

Cartoons aside, that's simply silly: cats can, and in cities, should, be indoor pets. Dogs have to go outdoors for obvious reasons, which is a whole other urban issue--we have a scoop law in Seattle that is observed more often than not in my neighborhood--and small dogs like pugs, say, bred as pets exclusive to any work, do fine in apartments. Larger dogs do need space to run and play and off leash parks are a flash point politically hereabouts.
As for vegetarian cats--yeah, right...
posted by y2karl at 5:35 AM on January 6, 2002

The Straight Dope agrees about the dog veggie, cat not issue, although people do sell vegetarian cat food with commercially synthesized taurine.
posted by Charmian at 5:36 AM on January 6, 2002

I should have mentioned that was a response to pracowity's attempt at jocularity.
posted by y2karl at 5:36 AM on January 6, 2002

When my dog has encountered cows in the country, she kicks their ass. I respect her wishes.

What exactly do you mean by "kick their ass?" Cows belong to farmers and ranchers who most likely do not appreciate their livestock being harrassed by dogs. You should be aware of the fact that in many rural areas, a farmer is legally permitted to shoot any animal that's chasing their stock.
posted by MrBaliHai at 6:05 AM on January 6, 2002

What exactly do you mean by "kick their ass?" Cows belong to farmers and ranchers who most likely do not appreciate their livestock being harrassed by dogs.

Umm, chases them merrily with a jaunty wag of her tail whilst the cow looks for the nearest tree to hide behind?

Thanks for letting me know of the laws. Truly. I live in Texas where people can be shot for trespassing. That being the case, I take my dog to my friend's ranch where he doesn't mind my dog playing with his cattle before he has them slaughtered. I don't think the cows appreciate any of us.
posted by colt45 at 6:26 AM on January 6, 2002

Thanks for letting me know of the laws. Truly.

Thanks for clarifying, and sorry for the thread hijack.

Loose dogs killing livestock and wildlife are a big problem where I live (Wisconsin) and most owners seem to be totally unaware that their pets could be shot and killed by farmers or game wardens.

I don't think the cows appreciate any of us.

They're just waiting patiently for their opportunity to strike back at us all, y'know. All this ground-up meat in their feed is slowly turning them into a predatory species with beady little forward-set eyes and sharp pointy teeth. Eat more beef or someday the beef may be eating you!
posted by MrBaliHai at 7:01 AM on January 6, 2002

Whatever happened to the real function of "doggie bags"? People have become so pc(including me, a 3-cat owner) that they now refuse to give their pets their left-overs.

Not following. What's PC about not feeding pets leftovers?
posted by delapohl at 7:27 AM on January 6, 2002

Whatever happened to the real function of "doggie bags"? People have become so pc(including me, a 3-cat owner) that they now refuse to give their pets their left-overs.

Feeding your dog tablescraps is a good way to give it pancreatitis, a painful disorder in which high fat causes an animal to start digesting its own pancreas. A dog I owned nearly died from it after eating a bunch of ham, and was in excruciating pain for 72 hours.
posted by rcade at 7:29 AM on January 6, 2002

I seem to remember that in the whole "Fast Food Nation" debate, there was mention of chain burger restaurants serving 4-D meat -- to humans.

And the cannibalism aspect is disturbing because (as far as I understand) feeding dead cows to cows is the reason for BSE. What's next -- mad puppy disease?
posted by muckster at 7:39 AM on January 6, 2002

Beyond the aesthetics of it, I don't think it's healthy to feed species X to species X. That is what vectored Mad Cow Disease, feeding ruminant meat (including sheep and possibly cow) to cows. For that matter, that's what propagates kuru, humans eating human brain. It's easy to imagine Fifi, who ate table scraps in Europe, emigrating to the US with her owner, succumbing to unrecognized Mad Poodle Disease, being recycled into pet food, infecting thousands of other dogs and cats, who would then die, be recycled... [insert picture of formerly cute, now ataxic and drooling kitten]

The supposed BSE agents are heat stable, so rendering at normal temperatures would not um, render them harmless, so to speak.

I just don't think it's wise to feed Fido to Fluffy.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 7:54 AM on January 6, 2002

Arrrggghh! Faced by muckster!
posted by Slithy_Tove at 7:56 AM on January 6, 2002

Though only tangentally related to this particular story, it is worth noting that the spread of scrapie and BSE in the UK has been at least partially attributed to farm anials being fed with protein derived from BSE-infected animals -- the agents that cause BSE, CJD, and so on, are virtually indestructible even by heat. (The article mentions that the heat of the rendering destroys "most" disease-causing agents).

FWIW, I think crunchland and colt45 are on the money -- if we, the humans charged with taking care of domesticated animals, could be more responsible about their care, this situation could be significantly alleviated.
posted by briank at 7:59 AM on January 6, 2002

MrBaliHai, Thanks for the concern. My dog's only piece of clothing is a bright orange hunting vest that she wears during deer season.

From muckter's cannibalism link above: Fore men supplemented their bean-and-sweet-potato diets with small game, but women and children lacked protein. To make up for this, the women had recently started a ritual of eating the brains of tribal members who had recently died.

Fore Child: Mom, I'm hungry.

Fore Mom: We don't want to bother dad while he is eating his dinner.

Fore Child: But, I'm hungry!!!

Fore Mom: I know, let's eat grandpa's brain!

So, when does PETA get here?
posted by colt45 at 8:21 AM on January 6, 2002

The dog eat dog nature of the pet food industry forces companies to seek lower cost raw materials. Just wish they would use more natural grains and oats than old Fido when he expires - just one of my pet peeves.
posted by marc-hamilton at 9:32 AM on January 6, 2002

Is there anyone here who thinks for a moment that their dog, were it "gone wild" would not eat another dog? Ditto for cats.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:47 AM on January 6, 2002

Right, I bet there are tons of instances in nature where dogs eat other dogs, fish eat other fish, etc. and nothing horrifying comes of it. I think most people's initial horrified reaction is one based in cultural brainwashing about cannibalism, and not any clearly substantiated scientific line of reasoning.
posted by hitsman at 10:19 AM on January 6, 2002

P.S. - Euthanized animals end up in the cheap junk feed that slaughterhouse cows/pigs/chickens/sheep eat - the same ones that end up on our dinner tables. So, not only Fluffy is eating dead pets.
posted by gsh at 10:23 AM on January 6, 2002

Hmm, they've had 'mad squirrel disease' in Kentucky from people eating squirrel brains and eggs scrambled--you're probably thinking, as I am, Yum! --and I've read of 'mad deer disease' cases in Canada from hunters eating venison.

Um, I'll have the Spongiform Encephalopathy Omelette with the squirrel brains and a venison steak on the side. Oh, and a Diet Pepsi, please..
posted by y2karl at 10:59 AM on January 6, 2002

(my first mefi post!)

After the BSE/scrapie phenomenon began to get press, the U.S. rendering companies decided (way back in 1989) that they didn't want the liability associated with rendering sheep and goats. Sheep and goats are usually burned. There's also a scrapie eradication program in the U.S. and other countries.

There's a reasonably accurate treatment of BSE and prion disease under the BSE link from that front page.

In addition, in 1997, a law, "Animal Proteins Prohibited From Use in Ruminant Feed," Title 21, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 589.2000, designed to address this issue was passed. The gov't interpretation of that law is here.
posted by marmot at 11:18 AM on January 6, 2002 [1 favorite]

The fact is, they put all kinds of weird crap in manufacured dog food. My wife bought a book on dog health and they described all these ailments that can be caused by the nasty crap they throw into dog food. She responded the only way she could; she makes the dog's food now. The book gave a recipe that the dogs love, she makes a bunch about every two weeks, freezes it, and thaws as necessary.
posted by tcobretti at 11:18 AM on January 6, 2002

Just to gross everyone out, I've heard that 30% of all pet food is eaten by human beings, mostly the elderly, who probably can't afford other food.

I recently read "Fast Food Nation" and though its somewhat off topic i'd like to share some of the more surprising revelations that were in the book. (btw - read it)

1. The beef industry regulates itself. The government can recall a defective children's toy, but they do not have the power to recall deadly tainted meat.

2. The danger presented by animals eating animals is real, because of how quickly disease can be spread across the globe through reprocessing. When I was in England, I watched parliament debate whether or not they should napalm cows w/ mad cow's disease, or put them all in a navy ship and sink it at sea.

3. Natural flavouring is mostly created in laboratories in New Jersey, the same ones that make perfume. Your McBurger could as easily be made to taste like grass as burger.

4. Most of the more controversial practices of the beef industry are done to save a couple cents here and there.

5. There is more fecal matter in the average American's sink than there is in their toilet.

Apologize for the long post. Been waiting to share those little factoids. Oh, one other thing I found fascinating - my cousin is applying to colleges and was told that the cooking class she took could be used as creadit for applied chemistry. She really was doing most of her cookin with test tubes and stuff in the school. I guess that's the future of gastronomy.
posted by xammerboy at 12:25 PM on January 6, 2002

I have chickens, and they regularly eat their own eggs, or each other's eggs. I think that while it is abhorrent to us, it might not be to other species. There is a difference between chicken eating chicken, and cows eating any meat. They can't really digest it properly, and wouldn't look at it as food in the wild.

So...
dogs eating dogs = ok
cows eating dogs != ok
posted by goneill at 2:00 PM on January 6, 2002

pracowity: Thanks for the link to the short film. Good stuff.
posted by Optamystic at 2:50 PM on January 6, 2002

If you're interested in Fast Food Nation... besides the Fast Food Nation exctract mentioned in the earlier linked MeFi thread, there's a lengthy two part Rolling Stone article online, that later, in expanded form, became the book.
posted by southisup at 11:51 PM on January 6, 2002

Soylent Green is Poodle!
posted by BitterOldPunk at 1:44 AM on January 7, 2002

"I have chickens, and they regularly eat their own eggs, or each other's eggs."

That happens when they are stressed and/or vitamin deficient. Sometimes they can simply be calcium deficient (ground oyster shells are a good supplement) and the behavior can quickly become a habit which is hard to stop.

"Is there anyone here who thinks for a moment that
their dog, were it "gone wild" would not eat another
dog? Ditto for cats."

Unless starving and/or severely malnourished, animals do not like feeding on other animals in the same species as they. This aversion serves a real purpose. As previously mentioned, animals are far more likely to catch and spread disease if they feed from other animals in the same genetic sub groups. The species would not thrive.
posted by lucien at 6:24 AM on January 7, 2002

I was more upset to find out that chicken manure was given to cattle as a nutritional supplement. I guess it's all just chemistry!
posted by SteveS at 10:44 AM on January 7, 2002