GNN.
May 22, 2002 7:33 AM Subscribe
GNN. Once Again we find some great stuff over at GNN. We have IBM and the Holocaust, The Lie wont stand , also they have a link to A TIMELINE SURROUNDING SEPTEMBER 11TH - IF CIA AND THE GOVERNMENT WEREN'T INVOLVED IN THE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS WHAT WERE THEY DOING? Good Stuff!
So, you're suggesting the CIA and the government could have "been involved" in destroying the WTC and blasting the Pentagon?
Here's the REAL TRUTH at last revealed: websites like this are actually operated by secret government agents.
Bury the real problems, including the failure of the intelligence system and administration to realize the coming threat, in enough Trilateral Commission X-Files black chopper nuttiness, and it makes it easier for the administration to just wave away all criticism of its pre- and post-9.11 policies as kooky ranting.
Crazy, you say? Aha! That's just what a SECRET GOVERNMENT AGENT would say.
posted by sacre_bleu at 8:53 AM on May 22, 2002
Here's the REAL TRUTH at last revealed: websites like this are actually operated by secret government agents.
Bury the real problems, including the failure of the intelligence system and administration to realize the coming threat, in enough Trilateral Commission X-Files black chopper nuttiness, and it makes it easier for the administration to just wave away all criticism of its pre- and post-9.11 policies as kooky ranting.
Crazy, you say? Aha! That's just what a SECRET GOVERNMENT AGENT would say.
posted by sacre_bleu at 8:53 AM on May 22, 2002
June 2001 - German intelligence, the BND, warns the CIA and Israel that Middle Eastern terrorists are "planning to hijack commercial aircraft to use as weapons to attack important symbols of American and Israeli culture." [Source: Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, September 14, 2001.]
Summer 2001 - An Iranian man phones U.S. law enforcement to warn of an imminent attack on the World Trade Center in the week of September 9th. [Source: German news agency "online.de", September 14, 2001, translation retrieved from online.ie in Ireland.]
August 2001 - The FBI arrests an Islamic militant linked to bin Laden in Boston. French intelligence sources confirm that the man is a key member of bin Laden's network and the FBI learns that he has been taking flying lessons. At the time of his arrest the man is in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals. [Source: Reuters, September 13.]
Summer 2001 - Russian intelligence notifies the CIA that 25 terrorist pilots have been specifically training for suicide missions. This is reported in the Russian press and news stories are translated for FTW by a retired CIA officer.
August 2001 - Russian President Vladimir Putin orders Russian intelligence to warn the U.S. government "in the strongest possible terms" of imminent attacks on airports and government buildings. [Source: MS-NBC interview with Putin, September 15.]
September 6-11, 2001 - No other airlines show any similar trading patterns to those experienced by UAL and American. The put option purchases on both airlines were 600% above normal. This at a time when Reuters (September 10) issues a business report stating, "Airline stocks may be poised to take off."
It has been documented that the CIA, the Israeli Mossad and many other intelligence agencies monitor stock trading in real time using highly advanced programs reported to be descended from Promis software. This is to alert national intelligence services of just such kinds of attacks."
And anyone can believe that there wasn't general knowledge that terrorists were going to use airplanes as weapons?
posted by five fresh fish at 9:47 AM on May 22, 2002
Summer 2001 - An Iranian man phones U.S. law enforcement to warn of an imminent attack on the World Trade Center in the week of September 9th. [Source: German news agency "online.de", September 14, 2001, translation retrieved from online.ie in Ireland.]
August 2001 - The FBI arrests an Islamic militant linked to bin Laden in Boston. French intelligence sources confirm that the man is a key member of bin Laden's network and the FBI learns that he has been taking flying lessons. At the time of his arrest the man is in possession of technical information on Boeing aircraft and flight manuals. [Source: Reuters, September 13.]
Summer 2001 - Russian intelligence notifies the CIA that 25 terrorist pilots have been specifically training for suicide missions. This is reported in the Russian press and news stories are translated for FTW by a retired CIA officer.
August 2001 - Russian President Vladimir Putin orders Russian intelligence to warn the U.S. government "in the strongest possible terms" of imminent attacks on airports and government buildings. [Source: MS-NBC interview with Putin, September 15.]
September 6-11, 2001 - No other airlines show any similar trading patterns to those experienced by UAL and American. The put option purchases on both airlines were 600% above normal. This at a time when Reuters (September 10) issues a business report stating, "Airline stocks may be poised to take off."
It has been documented that the CIA, the Israeli Mossad and many other intelligence agencies monitor stock trading in real time using highly advanced programs reported to be descended from Promis software. This is to alert national intelligence services of just such kinds of attacks."
And anyone can believe that there wasn't general knowledge that terrorists were going to use airplanes as weapons?
posted by five fresh fish at 9:47 AM on May 22, 2002
You hit it, five fresh fish. There were compelling reasons, linked to $, financial liability, criminal liabilty, and sheer embarassment, for ignoring the potential for malicious use of airplanes ...
That S-11 Redux was very entertaining, and a great overview of the process of creation of an enemy, but there is a deeper sort of structural change taking place on both the technological and idea / ideological levels. These structural changes are starting to happen because S-11 is forcing people all over the world to face up to the potential for disruptive, malicious uses of modern technology. "Letting things slide" and "looking the other way" so as not to inconvenience the monied interests or powerful players just doesn't work anymore. The chickens are coming home to roost, and the only way to minimize trouble is to start cleaning up our act.
To really get a handle on the structural changes that are needed right now and on their implementation, IMHO you have to put in the time and effort to dig through things like C-SPAN material. Some is on the web, but only available for real-time broadcast viewing. You also need to dig into things like sustainable technologies, emerging technologies, the politics of risk assessment and failure analysis, the changes in US military warfighting strategies, serious background on foreign countries, and develop some insight into conflict resolution and what helps people with different religions and philosophies coexist. Figuring this stuff out is a lot easier when you get hooked up with material on the kinds of alternatives that really knowledgeable people are exploring right now. If the conspiracy theorists make it possible to bring necessary reforms to intelligence agencies, fine-- but if everyone gets stuck complaining about the fact that "they rule," instead of implementing structural changes, then conspiracy theories aren't helpful.
posted by sheauga at 10:06 AM on May 22, 2002
That S-11 Redux was very entertaining, and a great overview of the process of creation of an enemy, but there is a deeper sort of structural change taking place on both the technological and idea / ideological levels. These structural changes are starting to happen because S-11 is forcing people all over the world to face up to the potential for disruptive, malicious uses of modern technology. "Letting things slide" and "looking the other way" so as not to inconvenience the monied interests or powerful players just doesn't work anymore. The chickens are coming home to roost, and the only way to minimize trouble is to start cleaning up our act.
To really get a handle on the structural changes that are needed right now and on their implementation, IMHO you have to put in the time and effort to dig through things like C-SPAN material. Some is on the web, but only available for real-time broadcast viewing. You also need to dig into things like sustainable technologies, emerging technologies, the politics of risk assessment and failure analysis, the changes in US military warfighting strategies, serious background on foreign countries, and develop some insight into conflict resolution and what helps people with different religions and philosophies coexist. Figuring this stuff out is a lot easier when you get hooked up with material on the kinds of alternatives that really knowledgeable people are exploring right now. If the conspiracy theorists make it possible to bring necessary reforms to intelligence agencies, fine-- but if everyone gets stuck complaining about the fact that "they rule," instead of implementing structural changes, then conspiracy theories aren't helpful.
posted by sheauga at 10:06 AM on May 22, 2002
US agents told: Back off bin Ladens
CBC Interview with Michael Springman exposes CIA Links to Osama bin Laden - Audio from Centre for Research on Globalization - A blogger's Summary
Has someone been sitting on the FBI? - 11/6/01 BBC Newsnight transcript
French commentary on above transcript
Sauduction on 9-11
9-11 Deja Vu - The Apartment Bombing Mystery - Suggests that Russian apartment building bombings were staged as a pretext for invasion of Chechnya
xymphora - lotsa speculation and links as to whodoneit and why.
posted by sheauga at 10:35 AM on May 22, 2002
CBC Interview with Michael Springman exposes CIA Links to Osama bin Laden - Audio from Centre for Research on Globalization - A blogger's Summary
Has someone been sitting on the FBI? - 11/6/01 BBC Newsnight transcript
French commentary on above transcript
Sauduction on 9-11
9-11 Deja Vu - The Apartment Bombing Mystery - Suggests that Russian apartment building bombings were staged as a pretext for invasion of Chechnya
xymphora - lotsa speculation and links as to whodoneit and why.
posted by sheauga at 10:35 AM on May 22, 2002
Is the 9/11 Deja Vu article that you meant to link? (The other one yields an SUV article.)
posted by lampshade at 11:20 AM on May 22, 2002
posted by lampshade at 11:20 AM on May 22, 2002
I'm reluctant to believe that the US Government is evil right to the core. I suspect most government officials know very little, and few of them are deliberately choosing actions that result in the deaths of Americans (and probably reluctantly choose actions that kill non-Americans).
I have no difficulty believing the CIA is among the most evil organizations in existance, and readily believe that they'll willfully and maliciously kill anyone to achieve their goals.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:54 AM on May 22, 2002
I have no difficulty believing the CIA is among the most evil organizations in existance, and readily believe that they'll willfully and maliciously kill anyone to achieve their goals.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:54 AM on May 22, 2002
::oops, thanks for correction:::
Collective Responsibility of the Bush Administration for the September 11 Terror Attacks
Right now, I'm also finding this a confusing and muddled batch of evidence. Clearly signs were picked up that something was afoot, but I still don't have a clear sense as to why it didn't all add up. I'm offering up a few loose ends in the hope some of you have spent more time than me on piecing all this together to get the big picture.
posted by sheauga at 2:30 PM on May 22, 2002
Collective Responsibility of the Bush Administration for the September 11 Terror Attacks
Right now, I'm also finding this a confusing and muddled batch of evidence. Clearly signs were picked up that something was afoot, but I still don't have a clear sense as to why it didn't all add up. I'm offering up a few loose ends in the hope some of you have spent more time than me on piecing all this together to get the big picture.
posted by sheauga at 2:30 PM on May 22, 2002
Salon (Premium) has a new interview with Jean-Charles Brisard, coauthor of "Bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth." Apparently the American edition, coming in July, has a new chapter in which the author claims that French intelligence informed the FBI of Moussaoui's connections to al Qaida but the info was never acted on:
You've hinted that politics and oil interests trumped law enforcement when it came to al-Qaida before Sept. 11. There's also some evidence the U.S. missed intelligence signals. But your Moussaoui revelations are more explosive than what came before. What did you learn?
The case of Zacarias Moussaoui was a typical missed signal. But it also reveals a cultural difference between the way the U.S. and other countries use intelligence. The French citizen was arrested in the United States on Aug. 17, 2001 -- less than a month before the attacks -- for visa violations, and he turned out to have been enrolled since February 2001 in a flight school in Oklahoma, training to be the 20th hijacker. Officially, however, neither the FBI nor the CIA had sufficient evidence to allow them to interrogate Moussaoui before the attacks, they say. The European intelligence services, notably the French, had already alerted the FBI to the Moussaoui case, at least once in August 2001 -- but the information sent, according to the Americans, was insufficient to put him under surveillance.
In a new chapter for the U.S. version of the book, however, I reveal that in late August, French antiterrorism services alerted the Americans to Moussaoui and passed on unambiguous intelligence, leaving, at least in the minds of the French, few doubts as to the suspect's terrorist links. It was shown to the Americans that Moussaoui had traveled to Afghanistan, that he was trained in 1998 in a camp controlled by al-Qaida and that a strong possibility existed that he had been in contact with members of its network in Europe. Another 20-page document that includes an interrogation of his brother, which confirms this information, was later sent to the American services. So, nearly one month before the Sept. 11 attacks, or at least since the arrest of Moussaoui on Aug. 17, the U.S. authorities had two fundamental pieces of evidence before them: They knew that the suspect apprehended on American soil was linked to the al-Qaida network, which in itself should have been cause enough for prompt serious investigations; and they knew that he had taken part in flying lessons for civil aircraft.
In other words, they'd been informed that a terrorist from al-Qaida was training to fly civil aircraft in the United States. Was the response of the FBI before Sept. 11 appropriate? Could they have acted differently? The fact is Moussaoui was held at an Immigration and Naturalization Service location in Minneapolis and wasn't transferred to FBI custody until after Sept. 11.
What is at issue is the method of data processing. Intelligence is a business of gathering facts. Some might come to the conclusion that the information provided by the Europeans was "insufficient" to signal an immediate threat, while others would have taken the necessary measures to erase the slightest doubt or at least would have taken the time to analyze and confirm all suspicions. For their part, the French believe that placed in the same situation as their counterparts, they would have registered and investigated this information, however fragmentary. And the fact that the FBI tried to obtain a special surveillance warrant [to examine the hard drive of Moussaoui's computer] as part of an antiterrorist procedure proves that some of their agents were taking seriously the intelligence collected on Moussaoui. To miss a low signal is admissible; to fail to integrate in the law-enforcement system as loud a signal as the Moussaoui one is a major failure.
posted by homunculus at 8:30 PM on May 22, 2002
You've hinted that politics and oil interests trumped law enforcement when it came to al-Qaida before Sept. 11. There's also some evidence the U.S. missed intelligence signals. But your Moussaoui revelations are more explosive than what came before. What did you learn?
The case of Zacarias Moussaoui was a typical missed signal. But it also reveals a cultural difference between the way the U.S. and other countries use intelligence. The French citizen was arrested in the United States on Aug. 17, 2001 -- less than a month before the attacks -- for visa violations, and he turned out to have been enrolled since February 2001 in a flight school in Oklahoma, training to be the 20th hijacker. Officially, however, neither the FBI nor the CIA had sufficient evidence to allow them to interrogate Moussaoui before the attacks, they say. The European intelligence services, notably the French, had already alerted the FBI to the Moussaoui case, at least once in August 2001 -- but the information sent, according to the Americans, was insufficient to put him under surveillance.
In a new chapter for the U.S. version of the book, however, I reveal that in late August, French antiterrorism services alerted the Americans to Moussaoui and passed on unambiguous intelligence, leaving, at least in the minds of the French, few doubts as to the suspect's terrorist links. It was shown to the Americans that Moussaoui had traveled to Afghanistan, that he was trained in 1998 in a camp controlled by al-Qaida and that a strong possibility existed that he had been in contact with members of its network in Europe. Another 20-page document that includes an interrogation of his brother, which confirms this information, was later sent to the American services. So, nearly one month before the Sept. 11 attacks, or at least since the arrest of Moussaoui on Aug. 17, the U.S. authorities had two fundamental pieces of evidence before them: They knew that the suspect apprehended on American soil was linked to the al-Qaida network, which in itself should have been cause enough for prompt serious investigations; and they knew that he had taken part in flying lessons for civil aircraft.
In other words, they'd been informed that a terrorist from al-Qaida was training to fly civil aircraft in the United States. Was the response of the FBI before Sept. 11 appropriate? Could they have acted differently? The fact is Moussaoui was held at an Immigration and Naturalization Service location in Minneapolis and wasn't transferred to FBI custody until after Sept. 11.
What is at issue is the method of data processing. Intelligence is a business of gathering facts. Some might come to the conclusion that the information provided by the Europeans was "insufficient" to signal an immediate threat, while others would have taken the necessary measures to erase the slightest doubt or at least would have taken the time to analyze and confirm all suspicions. For their part, the French believe that placed in the same situation as their counterparts, they would have registered and investigated this information, however fragmentary. And the fact that the FBI tried to obtain a special surveillance warrant [to examine the hard drive of Moussaoui's computer] as part of an antiterrorist procedure proves that some of their agents were taking seriously the intelligence collected on Moussaoui. To miss a low signal is admissible; to fail to integrate in the law-enforcement system as loud a signal as the Moussaoui one is a major failure.
posted by homunculus at 8:30 PM on May 22, 2002
Well, I hate to be snide, but let's face it: it was French intelligence. I rather doubt it's as highly regarded as their whine and cheese.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:25 PM on May 23, 2002
posted by five fresh fish at 1:25 PM on May 23, 2002
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posted by betobeto at 8:24 AM on May 22, 2002