September 8, 2002

2:58 PM

US Neo-Nazi Groups to CELEBRATE 911 Is it cool to be angry? Do I care? I'm VERY angry about this. [...] And so on, and so forth.
posted by artifex (42 comments total)

I'm gonna go beat up some white people, starting with myself ... then maybe Edward Norton.
posted by artifex at 3:02 PM on September 8, 2002

Howzabout we book a cage match between these chumps and the "London Muslims" of earlier today.

Biggest pay-per-view in history.
posted by jonmc at 3:04 PM on September 8, 2002

Cockfight of the century, fer sure.
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:06 PM on September 8, 2002

International Media to CELEBRATE 911. Is it cool to be angry? Do I care? I'm VERY angry about this. blah blah blah.

Too many people are trying to use the anniversary of a very, very sad event to further their own agendas. If TV stations said they wouldn't run commercials that day I might feel a bit better...

It's not surprising that fringe/lunatic media like the Neo-Nazi group above are following the example.
posted by Stuart_R at 3:09 PM on September 8, 2002

Actually, make that fistfuck of the century ... fer sure.
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:10 PM on September 8, 2002

Snark the first: Ya know, there's this nifty feature here at MeFi that lets you comment on a FPP in the thread dedicated to it rather than having to post a new FPP to comment on it.

Snark the second: That said, it's important not to tar all Neo-Nazis based on the actions of a small, radical subset of them.
posted by boaz at 3:21 PM on September 8, 2002

That said, it's important not to tar all Neo-Nazis based on the actions of a small, radical subset of them.

If you had said "all white people," okay -- but you're clearly making a racist correlation respective to the earlier thread. Good job.
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:24 PM on September 8, 2002

Does anyone else find this comforting?

...a rally and hate music concert in Washington, D.C. last weekend that attracted nearly 500 supporters.

Ooooh, NEARLY 500 supporters! Wassamatter, Neo-Nazis, having trouble making friends? It's good to see that this particular group of ninnies is small and/or scared to crawl out of their holes.
posted by hilatron at 3:27 PM on September 8, 2002

Wassamatter, Neo-Nazis, having trouble making friends?

Yes, the Luftwaffe Square Dance Festival and Mark Fuhrman Invitational Golf Tournament did not not go as well as they's hoped and the Genocide 'n' Fritters Bake Sale was a complete bust.
posted by jonmc at 3:32 PM on September 8, 2002

If you had said "all white people," okay -- but you're clearly making a racist correlation respective to the earlier thread. Good job.

Islam is a religion, ds, not a race. As such, it is much more comparable to an ideology like Neo-Nazism or Socialism than a race like black or white.
posted by boaz at 3:32 PM on September 8, 2002

As such, it is much more comparable to an ideology like Neo-Nazism or Socialism

But not Christianity or Judaism, right? Pffft.
posted by donkeyschlong at 3:34 PM on September 8, 2002

Wow. I can't believe you just compaired islam to neo nazis.

Islam is a religion, Neo Nazi's are just a hate group. We all know full and well that not all muslims want to blow American sky high. Islam has a history, and a culture, and beliefs far beyond just terrorism. They've got a wonderful history of art and archicechture as well. Neo Nazis just hate people.

I'm appalled.
posted by atom128 at 3:47 PM on September 8, 2002

What I find strange is that in expressing their anti-semitism, they are using a Jewish holiday that corresponds to a memorial to the tragic events of 9/11. Does that mean that if you hate Jews you are in favor of terroists destroying a piece of America and killing so many people?
Seems not a smart way to draw people to your cause.
posted by Postroad at 3:53 PM on September 8, 2002

Wow. I can't believe you just compaired islam to neo nazis.
Islam is a religion, Neo Nazi's are just a hate group.

Radical Islam is a political movement (Just like National Socialism) the difference is that Radical Islam hides under the vise that it is a religion.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 4:06 PM on September 8, 2002

Radical Islam is a political movement (Just like National Socialism) the difference is that Radical Islam hides under the vise that it is a religion.

how do you define zionism? similarly?
posted by donkeyschlong at 4:28 PM on September 8, 2002

But not Christianity or Judaism, right? Pffft.

Sure, and if these were Christian or Jewish groups celebrating 9-11, I surely would have made that comparison (you too, I suspect). However, since they are in fact Neo-Nazis, it doesn't make much sense to compare Judaism to Islam in this context, no?

I would love a quick explanation of why you consider comparing an ideology to a religion racist. The only possibly racist comparison I've seen yet is comparing Islam to White, since that's the only one that brought the issue of race into it at all. Oh wait, that was yours, wasn't it?

Wow. I can't believe you just compaired islam to neo nazis.

Just for clarification, are you referring to me or artifex here? You do realize that artifex basically copied another FPP, substituting "US Neo-Nazi Groups" for "London Muslims", right?
posted by boaz at 4:31 PM on September 8, 2002

fuck it, let them all marginalize themselves further.
posted by adampsyche at 4:32 PM on September 8, 2002

if you're going to satirise the other post shouldn't the title be more along the lines of "right wing americans..."?
posted by andrew cooke at 4:32 PM on September 8, 2002

the nazis do have a religion , its based on a worship of the old pagan 'gods' like wotan and all that jazz,
im sure these kind of groups must be secretly funded by news agencies .....................
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:42 PM on September 8, 2002

how do you define zionism? similarly?

Yes, It has political goals and agendas. Just like segments of the Christian population does.

Can't dismiss the Crusades of the Middle Ages as "Oh that's just the Christian religion, that's what they do." Can you? No it was a political moment using religion as a means to and end.

I am Catholic, and when I goto Mass on Sunday I goto worship, but on the other hand, my Grandparents donate money to the Missionary Fund at the Non-Denominational Church they attend.
I am go to Church to be closer to God, the do that as well as contribute to a political movement to spread "the word of Jesus"

That is the difference.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 5:12 PM on September 8, 2002

*puts hands in pockets, looks down, traces foot in dust, strolls away slowly*
posted by hama7 at 6:09 PM on September 8, 2002

So neo-Nutzis want to celebrate 9/11, eh? Why am I not surprised? Let the bastards make themselves look like the fools they really are.
posted by jasonbondshow at 6:53 PM on September 8, 2002

pst, sgt.serinity, real Odin (asa) belivers hang up nidstänger for neo-nazis who have misundertsood just about everything. during ww2 propaganda used and misused and downright reinvented history, and also the old religions to further hitlers agenda.
posted by dabitch at 7:09 PM on September 8, 2002

Too many people are trying to use the anniversary of a very, very sad event to further their own agendas. If TV stations said they wouldn't run commercials that day I might feel a bit better...

I agree. The media abuse 9/11 just as much as the extremist groups celebrate it. They can be as solemn as they like, still a lot of so-called righteous people (who Scott Peck would refer to as the People of The Lie) will make money off of 9/11. It's a hot ticket for the media. The money game appeals to the worst of our nature.
posted by SpaceCadet at 7:14 PM on September 8, 2002

I may be going out on a limb, since I'm quite new here and I'm about to say something that may not make me very popular, but oh well.

I don't think it's fair to the neo-nazis that they're being compared to that particular group of Muslim extremists in London.

The Muslim group is going to spend Sept. 11th discussing the "positive outcomes" of an attack that killed about 3,000 people, a attack they feel was justified.
The neo-nazis plan to spend Sept. 11th passing out flyers which blame the Sept 11th attack on American foreign policy and aid to Israel.

Is it in poor taste? Sure. Is it bad timing? Without a doubt. Are they celebrating 9/11, saying the attacks were justified, or talking about the positive outcomes? No, they're not.

One group holds the opinion that the attacks were a positive event, one that should be remembered favorably. The other has said nothing of the sort, and plans to use the date to further their political agenda. Neither are admirable activities when you're talking about the one year anniversary of a tragic event that resulted in huge numbers of innocent people dying, but they are hardly comparable.
posted by Kellydamnit at 7:15 PM on September 8, 2002

The Muslim group is going to spend Sept. 11th discussing the "positive outcomes" of an attack that killed about 3,000 people, a attack they feel was justified.

There could have been positive outcomes from that attack, but the Bush government squandered the opportunity. I think it's misguided and distasteful to celebrate the attacks last year, but I also think it's foolish to imply that such a tragedy could not have led to outcomes which made the world a better place rather than a more violent one, and ensured the security of the American people without curtailing their civil liberties.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:35 PM on September 8, 2002

I thought Fox and many other networks had decided not to show commercial 9/11 - it's been the advertising trades hottest topic these past few months.
posted by dabitch at 7:37 PM on September 8, 2002

Kelleydamnit, I read your post over and over, but I'm really confused about your point. Honestly, I have never heard the phrase "unfair to neo-nazis" before, and maybe my head is spinning from trying to make sense of that. I made you an appointment with a rationalization addition specialist, just in case.

BTW, it really is perfectly ok to judge people who believe September 11th was a good thing.
posted by joemaller at 7:47 PM on September 8, 2002

My general point was that, even though they're not using the best judgement, good taste, and so on by picking 9/11 as a day to spread their propaganda, the neo-nazi group hasn't said anything about Sept. 11th being a good thing. The article from the ADL actually mentions a flyer blaming US-Israel relations as the cause of it, putting 9/11 in a very negative light, which would lead me to believe they're just as against it as the majority of Americans have been.

It doesn't seem right to lump them in with a group that _does_ think 9/11 was a positive event and is spending a day celebrating it, only because they have equally unpopular, if not more unpopular, beliefs.
posted by Kellydamnit at 8:19 PM on September 8, 2002

There could have been positive outcomes from that attack, but the Bush government squandered the opportunity.
Somehow, that sentence just doesn't sound right.
posted by jmd82 at 10:11 PM on September 8, 2002

...Bush government squandered the opportunity...

that does.
posted by hotdoughnutsnow at 10:31 PM on September 8, 2002

Hrm, arn't a lot of people celebrating 9-11? I mean it is Patriot's day after all.

Comming in 2004, patriot's day sale @ target! 40% off. Yay.
posted by delmoi at 11:11 PM on September 8, 2002

Kellydamnit seems to have actually read the story. If artifex, donkeyschlong et al did so, they might have realized that the nazi group chose the 9-11 anniversary simply so as to point out what they think is an example of the peril of American support for Israel. This is vastly different from "celebrating" what happened.

So it's me defending nazis. That's pretty funny.
posted by shoos at 11:16 PM on September 8, 2002

Is it cool to be angry?

Am i the only one thinking of Conor Hammil every time i read this? (Is this cool? Is this cool? Is this cool? Is this cool? Is this cool? Is that cool? All these people: are they cool? Is this cool? This guy- cool, is he? This guy, is he cool? This woman, is she cool? So what about me? Do I look cool? Well do I? Do I look cool? Do I really look cool? Do I? Do I? DO I?)
posted by robself at 2:03 AM on September 9, 2002

American-confusing's robself, there.
posted by Grangousier at 2:42 AM on September 9, 2002

I have never heard the phrase "unfair to neo-nazis" before, and maybe my head is spinning from trying to make sense of that. I made you an appointment with a rationalization addition specialist, just in case.

It's really not that difficult to understand, just requires a bit more analysis and a bit less self-righteousness.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 6:09 AM on September 9, 2002

There are VERY FEW hardcore "hate group" members in the USA (or for that matter world wide) Reasonable USA estimates are between 5 to 10,000 full time members(I think that figure comes from klanwatch but I disremember) The thing that brings them more members and lends them creedence are dip-shit reporters making a major mountian out of a anthill. These groups thrive on negitive reinforcement to maintain the "us against the world"attitude.
posted by hoopyfrood at 7:31 AM on September 9, 2002

Amritage shanks...I know this is going to open the mother of all flames but I have to say this. Although I hate neo-nazi groups they have every right in our country to exist and to spread their "gospel" through peacable means. If that includes useing 9-11 as a bully pulpit so be it.
posted by hoopyfrood at 7:34 AM on September 9, 2002

wot? no fucknuggets?!?!?!?!
posted by terrymiles at 9:04 AM on September 9, 2002

"If that includes useing 9-11 as a bully pulpit so be it."

Actually, enough groups have been using 9/11 as their "bully pulpit" as it is. It doesn't preclude the Nazis or anyone else from joining in, but how does this actually bring about anything positive?

Besides, I heard enough "bully pulpit" stuff to last me for the next 100,000 years when the Cassie Bernall story broke after Columbine.
posted by ethmar at 9:12 AM on September 9, 2002

There could have been positive outcomes from that attack, but the Bush government squandered the opportunity. I think it's misguided and distasteful to celebrate the attacks last year, but I also think it's foolish to imply that such a tragedy could not have led to outcomes which made the world a better place...

Amen.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 10:47 AM on September 9, 2002

Ok, Fold_and_Mutilate and Stavros - How? Ante up.

1) How do you protect the United States from terrorists without curtailing civil liberties?

2) How could the Bush admin have made the world a better place?

Go.
posted by swerdloff at 2:05 PM on September 10, 2002