Photoblog your life
July 8, 2003 11:22 AM Subscribe
Sept. 11, 2003: Photoblog your life
"I've been thinking about September 11th. I've been thinking about the United States response - The Patriot Act. Invading Afganastan & Iraq. Death. Fear. Oppression. It seems to me that this is NOT the America I want the world to know. So I propose a blogwide Photoblog your Life day on September 11th. Take your camera with you. Take pictures. Show the world your life. Show the world your daily delights. Show the world that we choose life, happiness and freedom."[via Big Pink Cookie]
If this is about community, why does it need to be based on a political premise?
posted by fuzz at 11:46 AM on July 8, 2003
posted by fuzz at 11:46 AM on July 8, 2003
s this to include the lives of the many who have lost their jobs and homes because of the downturn in the economy ? Or the ill who are without sufficient health plans to get the heop needed? Or the cuts to just about every program that helped Americans? If so, count me in! Once I get my camera back from the pawnbroker.
posted by Postroad at 11:50 AM on July 8, 2003
posted by Postroad at 11:50 AM on July 8, 2003
and this will accomplish what, now? i mean, beyond touting another ridiculous blogword abomination like "photoblog". ah, what the hell, it prolly won't work in my politically correct browser anyway.
posted by quonsar at 11:51 AM on July 8, 2003
posted by quonsar at 11:51 AM on July 8, 2003
Cool idea, but I'm indifferent to the the life-after-sept-11 angle--won't the results be identical to any day-in-the-life photoblog created before Sept 11th? Why must it be political to succeed? Anyhow I'm looking forward to the submissions.
I only wish I had a digital camera. Or a blog.
posted by dhoyt at 11:58 AM on July 8, 2003
I only wish I had a digital camera. Or a blog.
posted by dhoyt at 11:58 AM on July 8, 2003
Count down to Bush-bashing thread in 5... 4... 3...
Actually, I had an idea similar to this once, to collect, archive.org style, the front pages of websites from Sept. 10, 2001. Sort of a "portrait of lost innocence." Unfortunately, that would require ambition, and I seem to have misplaced mine.
posted by arto at 12:06 PM on July 8, 2003
Actually, I had an idea similar to this once, to collect, archive.org style, the front pages of websites from Sept. 10, 2001. Sort of a "portrait of lost innocence." Unfortunately, that would require ambition, and I seem to have misplaced mine.
posted by arto at 12:06 PM on July 8, 2003
Can't you do it for July 9, 2003 instead? A day is a day, right? We're impatient.
posted by techgnollogic at 12:08 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by techgnollogic at 12:08 PM on July 8, 2003
Once again, Bloggers will save the world! Not since the hippies has there been a bigger group of self-important morons. At least the hippies had some good drugs and music and the whole thing didn't reek of one big circle-jerk.
posted by bondcliff at 12:08 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by bondcliff at 12:08 PM on July 8, 2003
I guess this only works for those who have cameras.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:08 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:08 PM on July 8, 2003
"Show the world that we choose life, happiness and freedom."
Which is to say - show the world that we have the freedom that they wish they did, but would deny them help in acheiving it. :)
Deeply idiotic to suggest that fear and oppression and death do not predate September 11th, similarly stupid to suggest that afterwards, we're worse off.
3,000+ Americans died that day in the single biggest sneak attack we've ever faced. Iraqis did not, until May, have the freedoms that you (you being the author) hypocritically cherish in their faces. Iranians still don't, as you'll find out (hopefully (and hopefully nonviolently)) when they protest tomorrow. Neither do North Koreans.
But by all means, get out your camera and take pictures of the way you wish the world was, because the way it is, shockingly, is getting better.
One evil malevolent dictator toppled in Iraq, another teeting in Liberia, Mugabe making noises about stepping down (at least, according to the BBC this morning) if he can maintain his legacy, Iran on the cusp of a democratic revolution (which will hopefully not be snuffed out, although it may get ugly) Al Qaeda on the run (see any terrorist attacks on the US lately?) Israel and Palestine in a freakin' Cease Fire (mostly... except Islamic Jihad...) and on and on.
Yeah. That's it. The world is much worse off thanks to those developments.
Postroad has a point, on the other side, however. Life's not great. But anyone who told you it was was lying or trying to get into your pants or both.
posted by swerdloff at 12:09 PM on July 8, 2003
Which is to say - show the world that we have the freedom that they wish they did, but would deny them help in acheiving it. :)
Deeply idiotic to suggest that fear and oppression and death do not predate September 11th, similarly stupid to suggest that afterwards, we're worse off.
3,000+ Americans died that day in the single biggest sneak attack we've ever faced. Iraqis did not, until May, have the freedoms that you (you being the author) hypocritically cherish in their faces. Iranians still don't, as you'll find out (hopefully (and hopefully nonviolently)) when they protest tomorrow. Neither do North Koreans.
But by all means, get out your camera and take pictures of the way you wish the world was, because the way it is, shockingly, is getting better.
One evil malevolent dictator toppled in Iraq, another teeting in Liberia, Mugabe making noises about stepping down (at least, according to the BBC this morning) if he can maintain his legacy, Iran on the cusp of a democratic revolution (which will hopefully not be snuffed out, although it may get ugly) Al Qaeda on the run (see any terrorist attacks on the US lately?) Israel and Palestine in a freakin' Cease Fire (mostly... except Islamic Jihad...) and on and on.
Yeah. That's it. The world is much worse off thanks to those developments.
Postroad has a point, on the other side, however. Life's not great. But anyone who told you it was was lying or trying to get into your pants or both.
posted by swerdloff at 12:09 PM on July 8, 2003
Once again, Bloggers will save the world! Not since the hippies has there been a bigger group of self-important morons. At least the hippies had some good drugs and music and the whole thing didn't reek of one big circle-jerk.
Thanks for your helpful contribution, bondcliff!
posted by jokeefe at 12:10 PM on July 8, 2003
Thanks for your helpful contribution, bondcliff!
posted by jokeefe at 12:10 PM on July 8, 2003
One evil malevolent dictator toppled in Iraq, another teeting in Liberia, Mugabe making noises about stepping down (at least, according to the BBC this morning) if he can maintain his legacy, Iran on the cusp of a democratic revolution (which will hopefully not be snuffed out, although it may get ugly) Al Qaeda on the run (see any terrorist attacks on the US lately?) Israel and Palestine in a freakin' Cease Fire (mostly... except Islamic Jihad...) and on and on.
Cool! I obviously woke up today in a parallel universe from the one I was inhabiting last night, in which things were going to hell in a handbasket. Otherwise, I'd have to say that your portrait of the fine advances lately in foreign relations, the march of democracy, etc., are unrecognizable to me. Or, more simply: W.T.F.?
posted by jokeefe at 12:14 PM on July 8, 2003
Cool! I obviously woke up today in a parallel universe from the one I was inhabiting last night, in which things were going to hell in a handbasket. Otherwise, I'd have to say that your portrait of the fine advances lately in foreign relations, the march of democracy, etc., are unrecognizable to me. Or, more simply: W.T.F.?
posted by jokeefe at 12:14 PM on July 8, 2003
Thanks for your helpful contribution, bondcliff!
Bondcliff.net: Saving the world one cynical comment at a time.
posted by bondcliff at 12:16 PM on July 8, 2003
Bondcliff.net: Saving the world one cynical comment at a time.
posted by bondcliff at 12:16 PM on July 8, 2003
At least the hippies had some good drugs and music
I never met a hippie with good drugs, and most of their music just plain sucked.
Now photos of hippies around the world, there's an idea...
posted by ciderwoman at 12:19 PM on July 8, 2003
I never met a hippie with good drugs, and most of their music just plain sucked.
Now photos of hippies around the world, there's an idea...
posted by ciderwoman at 12:19 PM on July 8, 2003
... and the whole thing didn't reek of one big circle-jerk...
I'd have to take exception with that one too, Bondcliff.
Ever attend a "Peace-In" or "Enlightenment Session"?
posted by dhoyt at 12:24 PM on July 8, 2003
I'd have to take exception with that one too, Bondcliff.
Ever attend a "Peace-In" or "Enlightenment Session"?
posted by dhoyt at 12:24 PM on July 8, 2003
Let's see.
Saddam and sons: Out of power. Ending things like this. (How you can not be pleased by that, no matter what side of the political spectrum you're on?)
Iran: Tomorrow is the planned Freedom protests in Iran.
Mugabe: BBC said so, I can't verify it, heard it on the radio.
Liberia: Charles Taylor is leaving
Israel and Palestinian cease fire: Here it is on Google News
Now - which handbasket to hell were you riding in? The one where sodomy is still illegal? The one in which affirmative action is totally dead?
posted by swerdloff at 12:40 PM on July 8, 2003
Saddam and sons: Out of power. Ending things like this. (How you can not be pleased by that, no matter what side of the political spectrum you're on?)
Iran: Tomorrow is the planned Freedom protests in Iran.
Mugabe: BBC said so, I can't verify it, heard it on the radio.
Liberia: Charles Taylor is leaving
Israel and Palestinian cease fire: Here it is on Google News
Now - which handbasket to hell were you riding in? The one where sodomy is still illegal? The one in which affirmative action is totally dead?
posted by swerdloff at 12:40 PM on July 8, 2003
I personally plan on completing the hippie/blogger circle this summer by posting the photos I'll be taking at the two-day Phish festival to my photoblog. Assuming I'm sober enough to know what end of the camera to look through. Or that I don't suddenly decide that documenting individual moments in time is such a bourgeous consensus-reality meme, or something.
posted by Asparagirl at 12:43 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by Asparagirl at 12:43 PM on July 8, 2003
Actually I do thank you, Bondcliff, your comment made this thread, which started off so unpromisingly.
And ciderwoman, you clearly didn't know the right hippies. As for the music, well, you either like Surrealistic Pillow or you don't.
posted by mojohand at 12:44 PM on July 8, 2003
And ciderwoman, you clearly didn't know the right hippies. As for the music, well, you either like Surrealistic Pillow or you don't.
posted by mojohand at 12:44 PM on July 8, 2003
Now - which handbasket to hell were you riding in?
Hey, maybe he's really Terry McAullife?
posted by Asparagirl at 12:47 PM on July 8, 2003
Hey, maybe he's really Terry McAullife?
posted by Asparagirl at 12:47 PM on July 8, 2003
Actually, despite my snarkiness, I think this is a great idea, _IF_ the rest of the world could be convinced to do it. Iranian bloggers photoblogging. Israeli's doing the same. Chinese (if they can get around the great Firewall of China), Koreans, Africans, Brazillians, whocareswhatians, what have you.
We're all just people here. Maybe this sort of initiative could help remind the rest of the world that.
America, for example, isn't made of superpeople OR evil villain illumnati. We're just people. Maybe telling both sides of the story would help illuminate that for the parts of the world that hate us.
posted by swerdloff at 12:57 PM on July 8, 2003
We're all just people here. Maybe this sort of initiative could help remind the rest of the world that.
America, for example, isn't made of superpeople OR evil villain illumnati. We're just people. Maybe telling both sides of the story would help illuminate that for the parts of the world that hate us.
posted by swerdloff at 12:57 PM on July 8, 2003
How you can not be pleased by that, no matter what side of the political spectrum you're on?
it's not the fact of whether or not you are glad that saddam and co. are out of power. it's the way in which the war was justified, with lies and deceit, that make many people upset.
posted by chrisroberts at 1:00 PM on July 8, 2003
it's not the fact of whether or not you are glad that saddam and co. are out of power. it's the way in which the war was justified, with lies and deceit, that make many people upset.
posted by chrisroberts at 1:00 PM on July 8, 2003
It's such a passive concept! Too much observation, not enough critical engagement. We're awash in meaningful images, and anyone's who's not, doesn't have access to a blog, so okay, let's do something about it already. It's a very sweet idea, but it just doesn't seem all that political. We all have eyes---it's access to legislation that we don't have.
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:01 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:01 PM on July 8, 2003
Chrisroberts - whereas Saddam was pure of heart and intent? That's a nonsequitur.
Holding the US up as a beacon is fine. Holding it up as beyond reproach _OR_ to a higher standard than the rest of the world? Less fine.
Which lies? The Nigeria thing, fine. Intelligence isn't like a bond movie, or even a Tom Clancy novel.
Would you have supported the war if, instead, it was sold as the liberation of Iraq?
posted by swerdloff at 1:04 PM on July 8, 2003
Holding the US up as a beacon is fine. Holding it up as beyond reproach _OR_ to a higher standard than the rest of the world? Less fine.
Which lies? The Nigeria thing, fine. Intelligence isn't like a bond movie, or even a Tom Clancy novel.
Would you have supported the war if, instead, it was sold as the liberation of Iraq?
posted by swerdloff at 1:04 PM on July 8, 2003
Israel and Palestinian cease fire: Here it is on Google News
Hilarious. Here are the top headlines your search brought up.
1. Middle East Terrorism: A Muddled Scorecard
2. Israel's conditions on prisoner release pose threat to ceasefire
3. Gaza removes inflammatory graffiti in gesture to Israel
4. Hamas Continues Making Weapons
5. Top Fatah Leader Warns: Ceasefire in Danger
6. Driver's death mars ceasefire
So, uh, yeah, things really are rosy after all. They did remove that graffiti, ya see.
posted by soyjoy at 1:07 PM on July 8, 2003
Hilarious. Here are the top headlines your search brought up.
1. Middle East Terrorism: A Muddled Scorecard
2. Israel's conditions on prisoner release pose threat to ceasefire
3. Gaza removes inflammatory graffiti in gesture to Israel
4. Hamas Continues Making Weapons
5. Top Fatah Leader Warns: Ceasefire in Danger
6. Driver's death mars ceasefire
So, uh, yeah, things really are rosy after all. They did remove that graffiti, ya see.
posted by soyjoy at 1:07 PM on July 8, 2003
They've moved forward - there IS a ceasefire. The fact that the Palestinians want to add criteria that aren't in the roadmap is a stumbling block, and that they have violated it a handful of times but there IS a ceasefire. It's a start.
posted by swerdloff at 1:10 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by swerdloff at 1:10 PM on July 8, 2003
"...they have violated it a handful of times but there IS a ceasefire..."
Not to pick nits (OK, to pick nits) but if either side's still shooting it's hardly a ceasefire, is it?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:20 PM on July 8, 2003
Not to pick nits (OK, to pick nits) but if either side's still shooting it's hardly a ceasefire, is it?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:20 PM on July 8, 2003
The fact that the Palestinians want to add criteria that aren't in the roadmap is a stumbling block...
Your agenda is showing.
posted by jpoulos at 1:20 PM on July 8, 2003
Your agenda is showing.
posted by jpoulos at 1:20 PM on July 8, 2003
PROCTOBLOGGING!
everyone bend over, photograph your asshole, and blog it NOW!
posted by quonsar at 1:25 PM on July 8, 2003
everyone bend over, photograph your asshole, and blog it NOW!
posted by quonsar at 1:25 PM on July 8, 2003
So's everybody elses, jpoulos. This is Metafilter, not "the department of nice people with no opinions."
(And if the Israeli's've violated the cease fire that they're not a party to, I'm not clear on A) how that would work and B) what they did)
posted by swerdloff at 1:25 PM on July 8, 2003
(And if the Israeli's've violated the cease fire that they're not a party to, I'm not clear on A) how that would work and B) what they did)
posted by swerdloff at 1:25 PM on July 8, 2003
"PROCTOBLOGGING!
everyone bend over, photograph your asshole, and blog it NOW!"
Well, whaddya know? The guy behind goatse.cx was a visionary... (*shudder)
posted by Jughead at 1:37 PM on July 8, 2003
everyone bend over, photograph your asshole, and blog it NOW!"
Well, whaddya know? The guy behind goatse.cx was a visionary... (*shudder)
posted by Jughead at 1:37 PM on July 8, 2003
I get the impression from the post that while the author's political leanings drove him to the idea, the idea itself is fairly nonpolitical and nonpartisan. Basically all he's saying is that he wants to provide a forum where people can demonstrate what Americans are actually like, as opposed to the negative images that non-americans have of them.
Hey, at least he's trying to do something positive.
posted by vraxoin at 1:38 PM on July 8, 2003
Hey, at least he's trying to do something positive.
posted by vraxoin at 1:38 PM on July 8, 2003
Show the world your life. Show the world your daily delights. Show the world that we choose life, happiness and freedom.
Or maybe donate some money so an NGO can provide clean water or protease inhibitors to someone in Africa. Then go masturbate in front of a gilded mirror. Almost as narcissistic, and much more helpful. Remember to use recycled Kleenex when mopping up.
Have a nice day.
posted by stonerose at 1:44 PM on July 8, 2003
Or maybe donate some money so an NGO can provide clean water or protease inhibitors to someone in Africa. Then go masturbate in front of a gilded mirror. Almost as narcissistic, and much more helpful. Remember to use recycled Kleenex when mopping up.
Have a nice day.
posted by stonerose at 1:44 PM on July 8, 2003
metafilter can help spreading the meme.
mathowie, since you are interested in this project, what about setting a day (same as Dec 1 tradition) when people should photoblog. The date might be or might not be 9/11; the theme might be different too.
Metafilter is not well equipped to handle a lot of images, but how about setting something similar to MeFi-Music (maybe based on photos.metafilter.com? ). And, yes, there is the bandwidth issue; donations might help.
Show the world that we choose life, happiness and freedom.
hmm .... it is not easy to take pictures that reflect the above. Most pictures are static, they do not show the social interactions. They might show higher buildings that are the result of progress and innovation based on democratic system (US case), but this will just tell people US is rich ("yeah, by taking our oil!") and nothing about the people.
posted by MzB at 1:44 PM on July 8, 2003
mathowie, since you are interested in this project, what about setting a day (same as Dec 1 tradition) when people should photoblog. The date might be or might not be 9/11; the theme might be different too.
Metafilter is not well equipped to handle a lot of images, but how about setting something similar to MeFi-Music (maybe based on photos.metafilter.com? ). And, yes, there is the bandwidth issue; donations might help.
Show the world that we choose life, happiness and freedom.
hmm .... it is not easy to take pictures that reflect the above. Most pictures are static, they do not show the social interactions. They might show higher buildings that are the result of progress and innovation based on democratic system (US case), but this will just tell people US is rich ("yeah, by taking our oil!") and nothing about the people.
posted by MzB at 1:44 PM on July 8, 2003
he wants to provide a forum where people can demonstrate what Americans are actually like,
But he said "yes" when asked if citizens from other countries could participate. So it doesn't sound like exclusively promoting American life is his goal.
I still like the idea of a day-in-the-life capture from all over the globe. I'd love to walk in a dozen people's shoes, in the virtual sense, and it can be cool if the photo narration is done right. I love to travel but can't afford to do it every day. A photo series can sometimes be almost as good.
posted by dhoyt at 1:51 PM on July 8, 2003
But he said "yes" when asked if citizens from other countries could participate. So it doesn't sound like exclusively promoting American life is his goal.
I still like the idea of a day-in-the-life capture from all over the globe. I'd love to walk in a dozen people's shoes, in the virtual sense, and it can be cool if the photo narration is done right. I love to travel but can't afford to do it every day. A photo series can sometimes be almost as good.
posted by dhoyt at 1:51 PM on July 8, 2003
This is not a novel idea. This is an idea that was carried in fairly grand fashion by over 400 people all around the world less than two months ago. And you know what, most people's days were boring. They went shopping, they took naps, they went to the park and played with their dogs, they surfed the web, they ate some meals. There was nothing profound or terribly illustrative about it, and it truly seemed like many people intentionally engaged in photo-worthy events for the purposes of the project. It was interesting, but not at all earthshaking.
I just don't get what "community" message people are supposed to take away from these kinds of projects. That we're all just people, doing our thing, living our lives, hoping that today isn't the day that our world falls apart or some maniac devides to kill us? It would seem that the people who don't get that (the maniacs) aren't the people who are going to to even know about a bunch of random people posting on random photoblogs, and even if they did, wouldn't give a fraction of a damn anyway.
So who's zooming who?
posted by Dreama at 1:54 PM on July 8, 2003
I just don't get what "community" message people are supposed to take away from these kinds of projects. That we're all just people, doing our thing, living our lives, hoping that today isn't the day that our world falls apart or some maniac devides to kill us? It would seem that the people who don't get that (the maniacs) aren't the people who are going to to even know about a bunch of random people posting on random photoblogs, and even if they did, wouldn't give a fraction of a damn anyway.
So who's zooming who?
posted by Dreama at 1:54 PM on July 8, 2003
Count down to Bush-bashing thread in 5... 4... 3...
Deeply idiotic to suggest that fear and oppression and death do not predate September 11th, similarly stupid to suggest that afterwards, we're worse off.
Gee, your countdown was pretty right on, but:
s/bashing/blowing.
would obviously have been more accurate, as shown above.
Now - which handbasket to hell were you riding in?
Now...which handbasket of cherrypicked, incomplete news stories were you riding in?
it's the way in which the war was justified, with lies and deceit, that make many people upset.
posted by chrisroberts at 1:00 PM PST on July 8
Chrisroberts - whereas Saddam was pure of heart and intent? That's a nonsequitur.
Holding the US up as a beacon is fine. Holding it up as beyond reproach _OR_ to a higher standard than the rest of the world? Less fine.
Oh, excellent, excellent. I'm so glad someone is bringing the United States down to the moral equivalent of Saddam Hussein. If some horrid "evil dictator" (one formerly propped up by the United States) must be dealt with, it's then quite OK for the United States to drop any of its principles too, right swerdloff? I mean, if the Iraqis were lying about their WMDs for their purposes, it's OK for us to lie about their WMDs for OUR purposes, right swerdloff?
What a much better world we've become, post 9/11.
And if we say they were lying about their WMDs, it's ok to invade them, right? Guess some other country'd be perfectly justified in terrorist-attacking us over our own WMDs and our own lies and general bullshit too, then, right swerdloff? That the kind of world you want us to live in, swerdloff -- where lies are de rigueur to justify killing, where our "interests" are paramount, and where right is no longer any part of might?
Great post 9/11 world.
I think the quote in the thread topic above was "Death. Fear. Oppression. It seems to me that this is NOT the America I want the world to know."
Sounds like that's exactly the America some of you are trumpeting. Sounds like that's exactly the kind of world and America some of you want to live in.
So much for a better world, post 9/11. Your own circle jerk of rationalizations for stupidity and corruption condemn it more eloquently than anything else could.
Would you have supported the war if, instead, it was sold as the liberation of Iraq?
Oh, selling. Selling. There it is, magnificently summarized. Gee, whatever works.... right, swerdloff? More of that glorious post 9/11 world....
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 2:04 PM on July 8, 2003
Deeply idiotic to suggest that fear and oppression and death do not predate September 11th, similarly stupid to suggest that afterwards, we're worse off.
Gee, your countdown was pretty right on, but:
s/bashing/blowing.
would obviously have been more accurate, as shown above.
Now - which handbasket to hell were you riding in?
Now...which handbasket of cherrypicked, incomplete news stories were you riding in?
it's the way in which the war was justified, with lies and deceit, that make many people upset.
posted by chrisroberts at 1:00 PM PST on July 8
Chrisroberts - whereas Saddam was pure of heart and intent? That's a nonsequitur.
Holding the US up as a beacon is fine. Holding it up as beyond reproach _OR_ to a higher standard than the rest of the world? Less fine.
Oh, excellent, excellent. I'm so glad someone is bringing the United States down to the moral equivalent of Saddam Hussein. If some horrid "evil dictator" (one formerly propped up by the United States) must be dealt with, it's then quite OK for the United States to drop any of its principles too, right swerdloff? I mean, if the Iraqis were lying about their WMDs for their purposes, it's OK for us to lie about their WMDs for OUR purposes, right swerdloff?
What a much better world we've become, post 9/11.
And if we say they were lying about their WMDs, it's ok to invade them, right? Guess some other country'd be perfectly justified in terrorist-attacking us over our own WMDs and our own lies and general bullshit too, then, right swerdloff? That the kind of world you want us to live in, swerdloff -- where lies are de rigueur to justify killing, where our "interests" are paramount, and where right is no longer any part of might?
Great post 9/11 world.
I think the quote in the thread topic above was "Death. Fear. Oppression. It seems to me that this is NOT the America I want the world to know."
Sounds like that's exactly the America some of you are trumpeting. Sounds like that's exactly the kind of world and America some of you want to live in.
So much for a better world, post 9/11. Your own circle jerk of rationalizations for stupidity and corruption condemn it more eloquently than anything else could.
Would you have supported the war if, instead, it was sold as the liberation of Iraq?
Oh, selling. Selling. There it is, magnificently summarized. Gee, whatever works.... right, swerdloff? More of that glorious post 9/11 world....
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 2:04 PM on July 8, 2003
stonerose you are wrong. People in other countries* (non EU, US, Australia, etc.) do not know the way people in 'western' world behave. Installing the standard institutions for a democratic system it is not enough, people have to learn how to play the game, they have to change their mentality.
The problem it is more general than it seems. The crises in Asia in '98 and what happened afterwards over there had a lot to do with the percentage of people employed by the financial-services system. Laws were in place, but people did not know how to deal with bankruptcies, for example. A recent paper (pdf) recommends attracting more people to these expert / consultant professions.
Back to the main idea: if the pictures are telling a story, yes they are helping. For example, when you buy something take pictures. Is it a busy day? If yes, take a picture of the parking lot and add a comment. Do you trust the store or do you look at the expiration date? Do you smell the fresh produce? (if they are GM/improved they are not very tasteful) How long is the line? Self-service check out? (in some places where people do not trust each other you will not see this system) Do you pay cash, by check or by card?
* and yes, these people might not have internet access too, so photobloging might not help at all.
posted by MzB at 2:25 PM on July 8, 2003
The problem it is more general than it seems. The crises in Asia in '98 and what happened afterwards over there had a lot to do with the percentage of people employed by the financial-services system. Laws were in place, but people did not know how to deal with bankruptcies, for example. A recent paper (pdf) recommends attracting more people to these expert / consultant professions.
Back to the main idea: if the pictures are telling a story, yes they are helping. For example, when you buy something take pictures. Is it a busy day? If yes, take a picture of the parking lot and add a comment. Do you trust the store or do you look at the expiration date? Do you smell the fresh produce? (if they are GM/improved they are not very tasteful) How long is the line? Self-service check out? (in some places where people do not trust each other you will not see this system) Do you pay cash, by check or by card?
* and yes, these people might not have internet access too, so photobloging might not help at all.
posted by MzB at 2:25 PM on July 8, 2003
OMG! Only 65 more shopping days to Sept 11! What am I going to do this year to make it seem like I care??
Seriously though.. is that the best you could come up with? - photoblog?.. hmpph.
posted by carfilhiot at 2:39 PM on July 8, 2003
Seriously though.. is that the best you could come up with? - photoblog?.. hmpph.
posted by carfilhiot at 2:39 PM on July 8, 2003
MzB, your asterisk was my point. This is an insular, narcissistic exercise in preaching to the choir. Even within Western countries, how many people have the means, time, inclination, and knowledge to access the fruits of this labor? Now, ask that question with regard to the people whose minds we (the West) need to influence. And throw in cognitive bias, for good measure - i.e., ask yourself how likely these people are to respond to these images in the anticipated manner, rather than feeling even greater impotence, alienation, resentment, and desire?
People in the global "South" are sick of feel-good projects emanating from the North. They are, to be blunt, just plain sick. They need help, not cyber-visions of utopia.
I stand by my harsh judgment: while this is an aesthetically lovely idea, it needs to be judged according to its social merits (because it tries to stand on those merits). And as such, it is bankrupt.
posted by stonerose at 2:40 PM on July 8, 2003
People in the global "South" are sick of feel-good projects emanating from the North. They are, to be blunt, just plain sick. They need help, not cyber-visions of utopia.
I stand by my harsh judgment: while this is an aesthetically lovely idea, it needs to be judged according to its social merits (because it tries to stand on those merits). And as such, it is bankrupt.
posted by stonerose at 2:40 PM on July 8, 2003
Show the world that I chose to take a crap at 7:36am, that I ate Cracklin' Oat Bran quickly thereafter, that I had Subway for lunch at approximately 12:33pm, and that I read a book around 6:36pm and finally crawled into bed at 11:22pm.
FREEDOM!
posted by xmutex at 2:41 PM on July 8, 2003
FREEDOM!
posted by xmutex at 2:41 PM on July 8, 2003
"Oh, selling. Selling. There it is, magnificently summarized. Gee, whatever works.... right, swerdloff? More of that glorious post 9/11 world...."
F&M - it was different before September 11?
posted by swerdloff at 2:51 PM on July 8, 2003
F&M - it was different before September 11?
posted by swerdloff at 2:51 PM on July 8, 2003
One more thing, MzB: I would also imagine that there are more than a few out there in the 'audience' of this project who would take issue with your idea that they should be mimicking us (change their mentality / learn to play the game). This attitude is called cultural imperialism, and it is one huge cause of the resentment with which the South views 'us'.
Does it strike anyone else that this 'showing ourselves' is the flipside of the phenomenon whereby we take pictures of other cultures and treat them like kitsch?
posted by stonerose at 2:54 PM on July 8, 2003
Does it strike anyone else that this 'showing ourselves' is the flipside of the phenomenon whereby we take pictures of other cultures and treat them like kitsch?
posted by stonerose at 2:54 PM on July 8, 2003
"Oh, selling. Selling. There it is, magnificently summarized. Gee, whatever works.... right, swerdloff? More of that glorious post 9/11 world...."
F&M - it was different before September 11?
posted by swerdloff at 5:51 PM EST on July 8
swerdloff, that is fantastic. cynicism existed before, so now, when it really counts, it's excusable? way to deal with f&m's critique: assimilate it and ignore it. great.
posted by stonerose at 2:56 PM on July 8, 2003
F&M - it was different before September 11?
posted by swerdloff at 5:51 PM EST on July 8
swerdloff, that is fantastic. cynicism existed before, so now, when it really counts, it's excusable? way to deal with f&m's critique: assimilate it and ignore it. great.
posted by stonerose at 2:56 PM on July 8, 2003
Whoa, Stonerose, hold back there. Are you seriously suggesting that because there is starving in the world there should be no art? That the only way to address this problem is for us all to throw money at it and therefore feel good about ourselves (OK, my bias last bit)?
Come down on this thing when it's done, but where do you get off telling people what their reactions should be to a situation? No, it doesn't need to be judged by it's social merits because I don't believe it is possible to calibrate it's social merits. How much is some more understanding worth? How many people have to have how much of their attitude changed to make this worthwhile? Any attempt to put a figure on this is madness. Let people do it and hope some good comes of it.
I think you must have had some of those bad drugs the damn hippies keep selling.
posted by ciderwoman at 3:04 PM on July 8, 2003
Come down on this thing when it's done, but where do you get off telling people what their reactions should be to a situation? No, it doesn't need to be judged by it's social merits because I don't believe it is possible to calibrate it's social merits. How much is some more understanding worth? How many people have to have how much of their attitude changed to make this worthwhile? Any attempt to put a figure on this is madness. Let people do it and hope some good comes of it.
I think you must have had some of those bad drugs the damn hippies keep selling.
posted by ciderwoman at 3:04 PM on July 8, 2003
ciderwoman, please read my posts a bit more carefully. I said that it's aesthetically lovely, and indeed, I am a strong supporter of the arts - especially socially conscious art. I said that this project needs to be judged on its social merits because it explicitly adopts a social agenda as its raison d'etre. And I pointed out how it is rather unlikely to create understanding.
I am merely trying to disabuse people of the idea that this is a socially productive creative exercise. You want to go do some socially productive art? Great. I'll even help fund it (not that that would make a difference!) But people need to be taught to assess their projects in a more realistic light. To take part in this exercise with the sense that it's going to make a difference, and that it is somehow 'doing one's part' to promote global peace and understanding, is to live in a dreamworld. We all want the same thing - understanding amongst peoples - but we're disagreeing about means to this end. My rant stems from the sense that this is such a fiddly, inchoate, ill-considered response to a deadly, urgent situation. It's typical of our narcissistic, feel-good variety of liberalism.
posted by stonerose at 3:14 PM on July 8, 2003
I am merely trying to disabuse people of the idea that this is a socially productive creative exercise. You want to go do some socially productive art? Great. I'll even help fund it (not that that would make a difference!) But people need to be taught to assess their projects in a more realistic light. To take part in this exercise with the sense that it's going to make a difference, and that it is somehow 'doing one's part' to promote global peace and understanding, is to live in a dreamworld. We all want the same thing - understanding amongst peoples - but we're disagreeing about means to this end. My rant stems from the sense that this is such a fiddly, inchoate, ill-considered response to a deadly, urgent situation. It's typical of our narcissistic, feel-good variety of liberalism.
posted by stonerose at 3:14 PM on July 8, 2003
Stonerose, granted we both do seem to want the same things (I did note that in your earlier posts) but I take issue with your statement that people need to be taught to assess their projects in a more realistic light. For me art should never have to assess it's project in a realistic light. Let them do it and let people take from it what they will.
You may have already come to your conclusions but don't assume that everyone else who may view this comes from the same intellectual standpoint as you. If one person sees this and says gee, I had no idea, think I'll send some money (it's late, easier to be simplistic) then surely the project will have the worth you seem to crave?
Now about that funding money you offered me...
posted by ciderwoman at 3:26 PM on July 8, 2003
You may have already come to your conclusions but don't assume that everyone else who may view this comes from the same intellectual standpoint as you. If one person sees this and says gee, I had no idea, think I'll send some money (it's late, easier to be simplistic) then surely the project will have the worth you seem to crave?
Now about that funding money you offered me...
posted by ciderwoman at 3:26 PM on July 8, 2003
What a much better world we've become, post 9/11.
Great post 9/11 world
I'm pretty sure that the events of 9-11 weren't meant to "make the world a better place" F&M. I'm sorry that you don't like the new world we live in... I don't either quite frankly. But I also don't blame the US for everything that has "gone wrong" since that day. The world changed in the blink of an eye... good or bad, whatever. It was bound to happen. You seem to think that all the repercussions of that day would be wrapped up in a week or so everything would be "back to normal".
As the two-year anniversary of that day approaches, I'm still not able to remember what "life used to be like" before that day. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing, but it is an uncomfortable feeling for sure. While I'm probably not in as big a state of constant panic and paranoia as some people, I am sick of being on edge to a certain extent (or being told to be).
{scratches head}
If I had a point... I completely lost it. Sorry. I guess I just don't know what it is you expect out of reality sometimes.
posted by Witty at 3:38 PM on July 8, 2003
Great post 9/11 world
I'm pretty sure that the events of 9-11 weren't meant to "make the world a better place" F&M. I'm sorry that you don't like the new world we live in... I don't either quite frankly. But I also don't blame the US for everything that has "gone wrong" since that day. The world changed in the blink of an eye... good or bad, whatever. It was bound to happen. You seem to think that all the repercussions of that day would be wrapped up in a week or so everything would be "back to normal".
As the two-year anniversary of that day approaches, I'm still not able to remember what "life used to be like" before that day. I don't know if that's a good thing or bad thing, but it is an uncomfortable feeling for sure. While I'm probably not in as big a state of constant panic and paranoia as some people, I am sick of being on edge to a certain extent (or being told to be).
{scratches head}
If I had a point... I completely lost it. Sorry. I guess I just don't know what it is you expect out of reality sometimes.
posted by Witty at 3:38 PM on July 8, 2003
they should be mimicking us (change their mentality / learn to play the game).
I agree with you, asking other to mimic the west might be seen as cultural imperialism. This is what I meant by imposing the western-type institutions is not enough. However, they would have to observe and adapt, not mimic. It does not have, not it should, be "our game" the one they are playing.
We all want the same thing - understanding amongst peoples - but we're disagreeing about means to this end.
for my selfish, personal benefit, what means do you (or somebody else) suggest? Who knows, something better than photobloging (as carfilhiot said) might show up.
posted by MzB at 3:44 PM on July 8, 2003
I agree with you, asking other to mimic the west might be seen as cultural imperialism. This is what I meant by imposing the western-type institutions is not enough. However, they would have to observe and adapt, not mimic. It does not have, not it should, be "our game" the one they are playing.
We all want the same thing - understanding amongst peoples - but we're disagreeing about means to this end.
for my selfish, personal benefit, what means do you (or somebody else) suggest? Who knows, something better than photobloging (as carfilhiot said) might show up.
posted by MzB at 3:44 PM on July 8, 2003
MetaFilter: The Department of Mean People with opinions on everything.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 4:22 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 4:22 PM on July 8, 2003
MzB, that's a huge question, of course, but I'll offer a few thoughts in the hope that others will do the same.
I think we - in the West - need to learn more about how others live, and our effects on them. As the major producers and consumers of goods and services in the global economy, and 'builders' of the world order, we need to understand how our local/national decisions affect others. We need to educate ourselves about problems and proposed solutions. We need to tell those we encounter - friends, family, politicians, religious leaders, corporate leaders - what we have learned about these problems and solutions. Art, writing, etc., definitely has a huge role to play here.
We need to be less selfish, and make educated decisions about where our money goes (investments, donations, etc.) and who gets our political support... and our political pressure.
There are so many good initiatives out there to support: ethical investing, microcredit, reputable NGOs working to strengthen local communities, sustainable development, etc.
I just hate to see good intentions go towards efforts that don't really seem likely to create understanding.
posted by stonerose at 4:26 PM on July 8, 2003
I think we - in the West - need to learn more about how others live, and our effects on them. As the major producers and consumers of goods and services in the global economy, and 'builders' of the world order, we need to understand how our local/national decisions affect others. We need to educate ourselves about problems and proposed solutions. We need to tell those we encounter - friends, family, politicians, religious leaders, corporate leaders - what we have learned about these problems and solutions. Art, writing, etc., definitely has a huge role to play here.
We need to be less selfish, and make educated decisions about where our money goes (investments, donations, etc.) and who gets our political support... and our political pressure.
There are so many good initiatives out there to support: ethical investing, microcredit, reputable NGOs working to strengthen local communities, sustainable development, etc.
I just hate to see good intentions go towards efforts that don't really seem likely to create understanding.
posted by stonerose at 4:26 PM on July 8, 2003
Here is an interesting web/photoblog from Africa... and it even namechecks Metafilter on the front page. And check out A Day In The Life of Africa. The proceeds from sales of the book go towards AIDS education in Africa.
posted by stonerose at 4:36 PM on July 8, 2003
posted by stonerose at 4:36 PM on July 8, 2003
we - in the West - need to learn more about how others live
And surely a blog of pictures of peoples lives from around the world is a good place to start?
I agree with everyting in your previous (but one) post, I guess I just disagree when you say that this will won't really seem likely to create understanding.
Nice links and a plug for metafilter on the first one too.
posted by ciderwoman at 5:16 PM on July 8, 2003
And surely a blog of pictures of peoples lives from around the world is a good place to start?
I agree with everyting in your previous (but one) post, I guess I just disagree when you say that this will won't really seem likely to create understanding.
Nice links and a plug for metafilter on the first one too.
posted by ciderwoman at 5:16 PM on July 8, 2003
way to deal with f&m's critique: assimilate it and ignore it. great.
I find that's the best way to handle most of what f&m posts. Well, except for the "assimilate" part.
posted by kindall at 5:38 PM on July 8, 2003
I find that's the best way to handle most of what f&m posts. Well, except for the "assimilate" part.
posted by kindall at 5:38 PM on July 8, 2003
Show the world that we choose life, happiness and freedom.
hmm .... it is not easy to take pictures that reflect the above. Most pictures are static, they do not show the social interactions. They might show higher buildings that are the result of progress and innovation based on democratic system (US case), but this will just tell people US is rich ("yeah, by taking our oil!") and nothing about the people. - MzB
Ya know, philosophically, I want to agree here...but existentially, I find that I can't.
I think there are all kinds of pictures that can show life, happiness...and perhaps even freedom.
For example; pictures of any child being born...there is no stronger affirmation of life. Pictures of my baby boy at the swimming pond...that's a happy thing to see, even if you don't know any of us. Pictures of my young female relatives who are not required to wear scarves to cover their hair and abayas to cover their skin....that's freedom...especially for those of us with Islamic roots.
Having recently realized how deeply fundamentalism has been entrenched...even in formerly liberal societies such as Egypt and Lebanon, has made me so grateful that my family wanted me educated and raised as a western woman...and believe me, I can produce pictures to show not only that gratitude, but the very life, freedom and happiness that you claim cannot be captured on film.
posted by dejah420 at 10:04 PM on July 8, 2003
hmm .... it is not easy to take pictures that reflect the above. Most pictures are static, they do not show the social interactions. They might show higher buildings that are the result of progress and innovation based on democratic system (US case), but this will just tell people US is rich ("yeah, by taking our oil!") and nothing about the people. - MzB
Ya know, philosophically, I want to agree here...but existentially, I find that I can't.
I think there are all kinds of pictures that can show life, happiness...and perhaps even freedom.
For example; pictures of any child being born...there is no stronger affirmation of life. Pictures of my baby boy at the swimming pond...that's a happy thing to see, even if you don't know any of us. Pictures of my young female relatives who are not required to wear scarves to cover their hair and abayas to cover their skin....that's freedom...especially for those of us with Islamic roots.
Having recently realized how deeply fundamentalism has been entrenched...even in formerly liberal societies such as Egypt and Lebanon, has made me so grateful that my family wanted me educated and raised as a western woman...and believe me, I can produce pictures to show not only that gratitude, but the very life, freedom and happiness that you claim cannot be captured on film.
posted by dejah420 at 10:04 PM on July 8, 2003
I remember my point - F&M, you sound like you're constantly freakin' out. It wouldn't surprise me if you end up going on a murderous rampage someday, starting with your place of employment and ending with you holed up in some motel room somewhere.
posted by Witty at 9:49 AM on July 9, 2003
posted by Witty at 9:49 AM on July 9, 2003
Witty: He works out all his violent urges by beating up strawmen.
posted by darukaru at 12:15 PM on July 9, 2003
posted by darukaru at 12:15 PM on July 9, 2003
(Actually, that was an answer to your previous post, not a tagline about you.)
posted by darukaru at 6:17 PM on July 9, 2003
posted by darukaru at 6:17 PM on July 9, 2003
HAHA! I read your response over and over about 20 times and couldn't figure out what you were talking about. Makes sense now of course. Obviously, my response was sarcasm of the absurd (at least I hope it was obvious).
posted by Witty at 8:01 AM on July 10, 2003
posted by Witty at 8:01 AM on July 10, 2003
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posted by kirkaracha at 11:25 AM on July 8, 2003