Illbient, Neurotrance, VGM, Psytekk....
September 26, 2003 12:50 PM   Subscribe

Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music, v. 2.0. Now covering 140 genres with 635 samples. I'll just go ahead and say it: [this is good]
posted by grabbingsand (74 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite
 
A lot of work was put into this, and though it's not beautiful, it's laid out well. The samples are very helpful. Very good stuff.
posted by pinto at 1:00 PM on September 26, 2003


Holy crap this is great.
posted by gottabefunky at 1:02 PM on September 26, 2003


Whoa! Just got an exceedingly NSFW banner ad at this site. Just FYI.
posted by Fenriss at 1:06 PM on September 26, 2003


Yes, nice find; thanks, grabbingsand.
posted by carter at 1:08 PM on September 26, 2003


Yeah, despite the bad ass banner, this is a great great find. Many thanks for the link.
posted by Outlawyr at 1:13 PM on September 26, 2003


Bio: Kent is an unemployed "rave scene god" who lives with his mom in the suburbs.

I am glad he is giving back to the world.
posted by vincentmeanie at 1:18 PM on September 26, 2003


Awesome. "Not Trance." heh.
posted by bobo123 at 1:19 PM on September 26, 2003


[this is good]

No. It is not. Techno sucks.

Thank you, that is all.
posted by jonmc at 1:26 PM on September 26, 2003


IDM branches off of ragga? HAHAHAHA.

Be careful of what you read on the internet.
posted by the fire you left me at 1:27 PM on September 26, 2003


yeah the IDM should float on its own or evolve out of ambient and avant garde electronic music
posted by pinto at 1:30 PM on September 26, 2003


Why is the electronic community so obsessed with hyper-specialization and labelling of genres? Sure, most other kinds of music have their own sub-genres, but certainly not to the extent of electronic music. I'm a fan of much of this stuff, but I'd be hard pressed to divide it into so many categories.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 1:31 PM on September 26, 2003


monju, surely its because electronic music doesn't have a star system. The genre lets you know what you're in for. You go to a Van Halen concert not a heavy metal concert. You go to a psytrance party not an Infected Mushroom gig (tho they may happen to be playing).
posted by dydecker at 1:40 PM on September 26, 2003


Whoa! Just got an exceedingly NSFW banner ad at this site.

Why aren't you using Mike's ad-blocking Hosts file?
posted by five fresh fish at 1:43 PM on September 26, 2003


now wait. there are 140 genres of electronic music? someone has been intellectualizing again...
posted by quonsar at 1:45 PM on September 26, 2003


Dude, Wesley Willis is on there under Casiocore. This thing is great.

Branching off of Casiocore is VGM, or Video Game Music. with a sample of a Golden Shower track.

Too bad I couldn't find any Autechre on there.
posted by angry modem at 1:47 PM on September 26, 2003


IDM branches off of ragga? HAHAHAHA.

From the site: "[IDM] afficionados . . . spend most of their waking energy arguing about what IDM is and what IDM isn't."
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:47 PM on September 26, 2003


I have never been able to make heads or tails of the bewildering array of electronic music. Thanks, Ishkur, for the explanation.
posted by charlesv at 1:48 PM on September 26, 2003


Nevermind, found them under IDM under Jungle. Like I know one techno genre from the next.
posted by angry modem at 1:50 PM on September 26, 2003


IDM branches off of ragga? HAHAHAHA.

Jeesh, I was looking around for that for that and kept missing it. No wonder tucking it down there branched off from ragga.

Odd seeing JPOP listed, I've never thought of it as a genre of electronic music.
posted by bobo123 at 1:51 PM on September 26, 2003


Maybe it's just me but the "skip" option on that hideous second page doesn't even show up in Safari or Firebird, only IE.
posted by anathema at 2:13 PM on September 26, 2003


Finally,

I've been waiting ages for this to come back. Off to check it out.
posted by sauril at 2:17 PM on September 26, 2003


> now wait. there are 140 genres of electronic music?

As in any kind of taxonomy there are lumpers and splitters. If you are a splitter (especially one who doesn't get out much) I've no doubt you can split out and name 140 genres, maybe more. If you are a lumper you can just sweep the lot into one bin labelled "drum machine with broken 'off' button."
posted by jfuller at 2:19 PM on September 26, 2003


"...140 genres..."

This is exactly why most electronic-music fans/advocates seem like pretentious wankers to me. The urge to obsessively sub-micro-taxonomize every possible artistic variation, great or small, seems like a sign of a listener who wants to derive an identity from the music rather than enjoyment of it.
posted by majick at 2:22 PM on September 26, 2003


Incredibly educational, but what can you say about a guy who likes Eurobeat and doesn't like Trip Hop?
posted by fuzz at 2:23 PM on September 26, 2003


On Japan: "It reminds me of that scene in "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" where they go near Toontown, and you can see clouds of smoke and yelling and fighting and all sorts of haywire shit happening above the horizon to signify the complete and total lunacy of the place. Japan is just like that."

Truer words were never spoken.
posted by GeekAnimator at 2:39 PM on September 26, 2003


This is exactly why most electronic-music fans/advocates seem like pretentious wankers to me.

Here, here.

As gene Simmons once said, "Our roadies have orders to kill all synth players who approach the stage."
posted by jonmc at 2:44 PM on September 26, 2003


Some of you guys who are into the wide variety of electronic music and would like to do our own CD swap, feel free to email me. I was always the electronic oddball in my mefiswap group.

Speaking of which, is MefiSwap going on this quarter? No one seens to respond at the swap board.
posted by spartacusroosevelt at 2:45 PM on September 26, 2003


Too much personal opinion, and there are not 140 genres of electronic music, there's are merely (at least) 140 different ways of saying "your favorite band sucks."
posted by kindall at 2:47 PM on September 26, 2003


uhm, there'd be no need for taxonomy of techno if there wasn't such a large variety of sounds. the fact that some of you mock the 140+ thing just goes to show how little you know about the subject ..

i've been appreciating techno in various forms for many years- there is quite the need for the subgenres and i doubt it's overdoing it. these are all individual sounds that need a name so you know what you're seeking out- wether for an all night party or the record store.

buy a clue, sheesh

[btw, this is good. nice to find ishkur's page again..]

Oh, yeah. IDM= Intelligent Dance Music.. that's a paradox in it's own.
posted by shadow45 at 2:51 PM on September 26, 2003


most idm from the 90s either grew out of early ambient, minimal and acid house stuff, or from jungle. basically idm deserves its own category. the site is a little too focused on dance music to call itself a guide to electronic music.

and where's merzbow?!

and gene simmon's is a bigger tool than any raver.

great site though, learned a lot.
posted by luckyclone at 3:06 PM on September 26, 2003


Hmm... interesting, I'd always viewed electronic music as something that had potential yet always fell short. There were a few tracks in there that I liked. I'll have to look into it some more. Most of the electronic music I've heard up to now had been what this guy calls boring and repetitive.

Thanks!
posted by substrate at 3:10 PM on September 26, 2003


According to the guide, hip hop is the most important music in the latter half of the 20th century, and DJ's aren't making music if they can't scratch.

yes, [this is good]. how did he listen to all the trance and still come through with an intact musical mind?
posted by badstone at 3:16 PM on September 26, 2003


he equally dosed himself with many hours of dark, deep nasty ragga jungle to come back to normalcy, i'm sure
posted by shadow45 at 3:22 PM on September 26, 2003


Digweed > *
posted by shadow45 at 3:23 PM on September 26, 2003


3 megs swells to 47 megs?
Swell for those who can afford the connection.
Sucks for those who can't ... which is probably most of the people who *really* care.
posted by Twang at 3:25 PM on September 26, 2003


> the site is a little too focused on dance music to call itself a guide to electronic music.

I'll say. No Ussachevsky, no Otto Luening, no Eimert & Beyer, no Varese, no Cage, no Stockhausen, no Milton Babbitt, no Morton Subotnik, etc. etc.

for the Flash-enabled, here's further bit of educational material to supplement the fpp link.


> If you are a lumper you can just sweep the lot into one
> bin labelled "drum machine with broken 'off' button."

My own taxonomy of drum-machine-based electronica is

A. 133 beats per minute
B. faster
C. slower
posted by jfuller at 3:25 PM on September 26, 2003


Oh, yeah. IDM= Intelligent Dance Music.. that's a paradox in it's own.

Yeah. Fer sure. Nothing intelligent about DnB.
posted by Twang at 3:29 PM on September 26, 2003


Who said drum and bass was intelligent? I like LTJ Bukem's stuff, though :)
posted by shadow45 at 3:32 PM on September 26, 2003


jfuller: my own taxonomy of rock and roll is

A. 3-4 chords
B. guitars
C. incoherent lyrics
posted by shadow45 at 3:34 PM on September 26, 2003


not trying to be an ass to jfuller- just trying to prove a point to everyone bitching about techno all sounding the same...
posted by shadow45 at 3:36 PM on September 26, 2003


Off the top of my head, here's 40 genres of white electric guitar music:
punk/post-punk/new wave/no wave/heavy metal/death metal/grunge/stoner/thrash/psychedelic/garage/ jam/power pop/Southern/country-rock/ jangle/emo/indie/shoegazer /hardcore/glam/nu metal/fratrock/pub rock/folk-rock/funk-rock/punk-funk/ska/hair metal/mod/MerseyBeat/space rock/drone/prog/rockabilly /rock'n'roll/psychobilly/singer-songwriter/classic rock

Probably people here could name a lot more. But I know a lot of people who listen almost entirely to electronic music, and to them all those genres just sound like one kind of music: "rock".

If you genuinely love electronic music, all those 140 genres really do sound different.

(on preview: uhh, what shadow45 said)
posted by fuzz at 3:45 PM on September 26, 2003


My feeling on electronic music is the same as any other genre. 99% is shit and 1% is solid gold. I apply this theory to jazz, country, rock, pop, whatever, although there is a definite advantage to getting shit produced in electronic music because the majority of the labels are indy and will take anything they can get, where as major studios are usually looking for some polish, even on a turd.

The majority of good music I hear can be attached to certain people and or groups of people and has little to do with the genre. I do agree, however, that listening to a shitty country song is often less disturbing than listening to a synthed out anthemic broken sappy drum machine, but that is really a matter of personal preference.

I'm dj on the weekend mostly but when I walk into a record store I go through 500 records and walk away with 5 or 10 tops.
posted by velacroix at 3:52 PM on September 26, 2003


I can't find Dynamix II in the Ghetto Tech section under Breakbeats. That's a serious omission !

The only reason Friction & Spice landed in that Chemical Breaks section is because of their inclusion in Funkydesertbreaks Volume 1- they're from Florida and practically defined the Orlando breaks sound in the mid 90s. An old friend of mine did their album cover "Transformed" a few years back. Small world :)

man, everything off of the classic tree under Trance brings back highschool memories and goosebumps. Anyone see Rabbit in the Moon anywhere? they need to be on this!

it's good to see Ishkur's guide is back.
posted by shadow45 at 4:07 PM on September 26, 2003


The annoying things about microgenrification:

- nobody actually agrees on what goes into all those tiny shoeboxes.

- people make up new genres at the drop of a hat.

- an album by one artist with 14 tracks on it might fall into 20 different genres.

- it's a lame attempt to tell somebody what music will sound like before they actually hear it, and that just never works.

- I can't categorize most of my own music with any confidence, other than "electronic." Which is a stupid category; we don't have a "guitar" genre.

- When you're playing Skinny Puppy and someone tells you "turn off that damn techno shit" you know it's a lost cause anyway.
posted by Foosnark at 4:09 PM on September 26, 2003


I really don't know how I ever liked that dark nasty shit when I was growing up... Clock DVA, Front Line Assembly, Front 242 - hell I even have some Cabaret Voltaire tapes laying around.

Anyone remember SMP? They were from over here, stateside.. I can't remember any album names though. It was more along the lines of Atari Teenage Riot but if I remember right they actually had rhythm
posted by shadow45 at 4:18 PM on September 26, 2003


Did anyone see industrial on the list? If it's not there then the list isn't complete, IMHO.
posted by entropy at 4:28 PM on September 26, 2003


Hmm... Happy Hardcore, Eurodance, jpop...good stuff. Yes I have no musical taste. Thanks for the link.
posted by patrickje at 4:33 PM on September 26, 2003


100% subjective, countless mistakes, looks like crap, still a good laugh.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 5:18 PM on September 26, 2003


Geez, everyone's really harping on this. Ishkur's guide is an incredible resource! There is a huge amount of vital stuff going on in the electronic music world. Sure, it's hard to categorize and some of the distinctions seem silly. Let's see you do better.
--an unabashedly pretentious glitch fan.
posted by Nelson at 5:21 PM on September 26, 2003


entropy: I've been hammering out the "Industrial" section to come with Ishkur over email. It promises to be quite comprehensive.

shadow45: You dissin F242, my homie?
posted by Jairus at 6:12 PM on September 26, 2003


" Bio: Kent is an unemployed "rave scene god" who lives with his mom in the suburbs."

Which may be part of the reason he keeps going on about "fucking hippies" all the time.

Other than the unnecessary and pubescent-sounding vitriol and (understandable) america-centrism, this is a great resource.
posted by spazzm at 6:24 PM on September 26, 2003


I can't wait to see the industrial section. It should be cool.

I gotta give props to Ishkur for including Venetian Snares and Lustmord as examples. Especially the Snares. "All The Children Are Dead" is the best.song.ever.
posted by sigma7 at 6:29 PM on September 26, 2003


really cool
posted by jcruelty at 6:36 PM on September 26, 2003


[fuzz's list of rock microgenres]

You know, anybody who tried to sort rock into every one of those little cubbyholes would qualify as a pretentious wanker to me, too. Again, I'm making a comment on the fanbase, not at all the value of the body of music itself.

Hell, I like guitars and I've never heard of roughly half of those terms. Of the remainder, I'd still be happy to lump them together into bins more usefully labelled something like "crap" and "non-crap."
posted by majick at 7:23 PM on September 26, 2003


The terms are Americanised to the extreme, which isn't necessarily appropriate when all of the examples contained inside.

The ridiculous "breakcore" would, in my book, be called "jungle techno" if you wanted to get so needlessly specific. The over-categorisation is unnecessary, but the inclusion of acen's superb trip to the moon demonstrates the guy knows his history, as well as the more modern bits and bobs.

The over-categorisation can only lead to disagreements, and makes it very hard to find anything. In fact its ridiculous. "Swedish Techno", as if there wasn't Techno from 6 dozen other countries. It's fun - but unless the aim is to amass more and more samples and slowly build up a database, I'm not sure I get the point. And the arrangement blows.
posted by nthdegx at 7:34 PM on September 26, 2003


"when all of the examples contained inside..." are British

sorry
posted by nthdegx at 7:35 PM on September 26, 2003


the guy knows his history

I think that's basically the point for me, you might dispute the categories, but he's picked some classic tunes, and I'm definitely going to go and check out some of the ones I haven't heard of.
posted by carter at 8:26 PM on September 26, 2003


I didn't see Pan Sonic [or even anything similar] on there. Oh well.
posted by oaf at 8:58 PM on September 26, 2003


see, it's not quite ridiculous... swedish techno i can't describe to you- but i for sure know the sound of obnoxious french house when I hear it (example: Daft Punk).

bah, the people going on about the genres being too numerous don't really know the subject matter.

and I don't quite understand how *anyone* could appreciate happy hardcore or gabber. that's some odd 160bpm shit!

I can't really diss F242 I suppose, I just can't identify with that kind of music any more...

anyone wanting an introduction into good breaks (Florida style) can check out Chris Fortier's Atmospheric Breaks.. it's so nice.
posted by shadow45 at 9:15 PM on September 26, 2003


Very Interesting. Now I can dislike much more music by name.
posted by HTuttle at 9:48 PM on September 26, 2003


I think I just spent an hour and a half perusing different samples. Interesting to learn that there are categories to contain what I would have attempted to loosely describe as "too slow," "too cheesy," "soothing," "energizing," "dank," "scary," etc.

And his comparison of Japan to Toontown is one of the best things I've read on the web lately.
posted by Tubes at 10:08 PM on September 26, 2003


I loved this. Wasted a good hour digging through.
posted by muckster at 10:54 PM on September 26, 2003


This is a tremendously ambitious project. Hell, his version 1.0 was a brave attempt. I have nothing but respect for him and this new effort. I am sure that he knew that he would be subjected to a relentless flood of angry egos and criticisms, and yet he made the guide anyway. It is not perfect (and I don't think it can be), but it is extremely informative.

Keep in mind that it wasn't one person (and especially not Ishkur) that decided to create 140+ genres of electronic music. The genres have been created over time by producers, DJs, music reviewers, fans, dancers, et cetera. The genres typically are created because electronic music is so damned dynamic in nature. The creation process is far different than most non-electronic music, and the producers have meticulous control over the beats, tempo, and sounds. With that type of minute control, of course you will see lots of diversity in a shorter period of time. And this manner of making music is not better and not worse. Just different.

Like all music, electronic music is for ANYBODY but not EVERYBODY. If you are interested, then come on over and check it out. There really is something for almost everyone. Otherwise, there are a lot of really great non-electronic music genres out there too. Just enjoy yourselves, support your local music scenes, and keep the bitching to a minimum. =)
posted by Rattmouth at 12:19 AM on September 27, 2003


Hi my name is cryosis, and most of these genres are well represented in my playlist.

Does that mean I'm well rounded? Anyone?
posted by cryosis at 12:44 AM on September 27, 2003


"bah, the people going on about the genres being too numerous don't really know the subject matter."

*spits tea all over the keyboard*. Sorry, how do you figure? Going by his characterisation your average electronic album would probably contain at least 6 different genres. Over-categorisation becomes meaningless. Gloomcore? Please. As has been said by me and others, no one will agree with categorisation to this degree. What's more, I think I can find some examples of things he's got very wrong: -
  • Sven Vath, "One of the most popular proponents of German trance techno", makes the Brit House classification. Hello?
  • I'm fairly sure the Black Eyed Peas and Del the "Funky" (you mean Funkee?) Homosapian wouldn't describe their own music as "Progressive Hop".
  • Under Abstract Hip Hop, "and by proxy the Ninja Tunes label" (you mean Ninja Tune?) we have Coldcut. Great, but he manages to choose the example of 'Timber', a glorious track in its own right, but distinctly upbeat.
  • Under Jungle, and the jungle subset itself, we have only one of the 5, example 3 The License by Krome and Time. The other examples, whilst being fine examples of Drum n Bass, are simply not Jungle. Jungle is a subset of Drum n Bass, not the other way round.
  • In the downtempo section, we have trip hop with Massive Attack, ok, Portishead, fine and Tricky. Cool. The fifth example is Olive's You're Not Alone. Trip Hop. Riiight.
  • He is very inconsistant with labelling his remixes. His featured remixes of Lamb's Gorecki and Wild Child's Renegade Master (under Atmospheric Jungle and Big Beat) are labelled as if they were the originals. They are not. Also, we are told, Atmospheric Jungle is interchangeable with Trip Hop. It isn't.
If it wasn't a great fun site I wouldn't have spent time there twice. However, I'm afraid he is that twat at the party that tells you, "well, I was into experimental Techstep, but that scene got stale so now I'm more into Gloomcore". The level of categorisation will inevitably lead to inconsistancies, but the inconsistancies, for me, are annoying. The sample-base is a great start for an awesome web resource. The guy clearly does know his stuff. But the emphasis of the site is on categorisation, and there it is misplaced.

"All those that just label, we know that music is music".
posted by nthdegx at 3:49 AM on September 27, 2003


The one sure way to know that there is way too much categorization going on with electronica* is that the fans (and detractors) are the ones doing the categorizing. Very few bands bother to label their music with a specific genre, and reviews of the best and most popular inevitably include terms like 'genre-busting' or 'cross-genre'.

* I'm using it as a generic term for electronic music. So sue me.
posted by mmoncur at 5:27 AM on September 27, 2003


nthdegx:

I live in Florida and have for many years... I was around Orlando during the height of the party scene there (it was downhill after 99) and let me assure you, the categories for the Breaks section help classify the sounds we were hearing at the time... I was a trance freak and despised the cheeeeeesy breaks they played- DJ Icey, Rob-E, DJ Sandy and those glam djs. but their sections are represented! we hated it all so we just lumped it together as cheesy breaks. but there's more going on there than that, as much as it sounds horrible.

# I'm fairly sure the Black Eyed Peas and Del the "Funky" (you mean Funkee?) Homosapian wouldn't describe their own music as "Progressive Hop".

I couldn't agree more.. wish I could classify Del's latest works. it's experimental hiphop, maybe progressive but I doubt him and Dan would appreciate that title :) That song i'm hearing on the radio by them just doesn't sound right.

# Under Abstract Hip Hop, "and by proxy the Ninja Tunes label" (you mean Ninja Tune?) we have Coldcut. Great, but he manages to choose the example of 'Timber', a glorious track in its own right, but distinctly upbeat.

Damn, timber rocks! great use of chainsaw samples. To me Coldcut belongs under Big Beat or chemical breaks, but thats just beacuse i'm not too familiar with the rest of his work..

# In the downtempo section, we have trip hop with Massive Attack, ok, Portishead, fine and Tricky. Cool. The fifth example is Olive's You're Not Alone. Trip Hop. Riiight.

You're right, that belongs anywhere but in that section.
posted by shadow45 at 6:20 AM on September 27, 2003


agh, it's AM and i've not had my coffee yet - that 2nd reply of mine's last sentence should be read as pertaining to the Black Eyed Peas. My brain skipped that in the editing of the post somehow :) last i've known Del probably doesn't get much radio play.
posted by shadow45 at 6:22 AM on September 27, 2003


(on Anthem Trance)

"This cookie cutter, by-the-numbers formula dominated the english club scene and trance, once the quirky kind of music with only a niche market, reformed itself into a neverending series of pop jingles and by doing so supplaunted house as the most popular dance music in the world."

god, he's right on there -- the classic thing being the kind of tracks that he has for the Anthem Trance section... while I still like some of them mainly due to the memory associations, my friends and I (and pretty much everyone we knew when we were clubbing all the time) always considered things like this, especially tracks like "El Nino" to be weak sauce in the extreme...

especially funny is that three of the tracks in that section were basically written by the same guy

I do think that the exclusion of DJ Assault in the Booty House section is almost a crime.

Funniest line I've seen yet though (on Speed Garage) :

"Who greenlighted this project at the Official Electronic Music Genre Standards and Classifications Consortium?"
posted by badzen at 3:31 PM on September 27, 2003


Find DJ Assault in Ghetto Tech inside the Breakbeat category.
posted by brittney at 4:20 PM on September 27, 2003


    Find DJ Assault in Ghetto Tech inside the Breakbeat category.
yeah, DJ Assault is definetly Ghetto Tech, not Booty House. *smirk*
    Sven Vath, "One of the most popular proponents of German trance techno", makes the Brit House classification. Hello?
It's a Deep Dish remix (who hail from Washington, DC, interestingly enough). I'd say Sven Vath's DJ sets are generally Swechno though.

Really, only the tongue-in-cheek nature of this all (and the fact that he doesn't make any distinctly questional classifications) is what makes this great. And the fact that he calls UK Hard House "Stupid".
posted by nf at 4:37 PM on September 27, 2003


my god

"Ghetto Tech will be the natural law of the New World Order."

first time I've heard Assault referred to as Ghetto Tech.

But then again, I'm all old and crotchety and shit now...

"Swechno" ROFTL, that's great nf... you ever make it to Los Angeles, you better call me up. I'd love to buy you a drink
posted by badzen at 5:22 PM on September 27, 2003


I think the site is great. As for whether this or that should be in the other category, its all subjective, as pointed out by many above.

shadow45: coldcut are Matt Black and Jonathan More. They are the founders of Ninja Tune and since the late 80's have been pioneering producers, remixers and djs. They have a fantastic radio show called Solid Steel which you can listen to here.

They also mixed what is regarded as being the finest compilations of all time.

All you ever need to know about them can be found here, apart from a discography which is here.
posted by davehat at 2:50 AM on September 29, 2003


I posted Ishkur's site to Memepool back on Dec 15, 2000, and blew out his host then. It is definitely great to see him back and better than ever.

jonmc, while I appreciate your humor, we'll never agree at the jukebox ;)
posted by gen at 7:22 PM on September 29, 2003


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