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Baby's named a bad, bad thing
March 29, 2005 11:26 AM Subscribe

White Power if it's a boy, Aryan Justice if it's a girl.
posted by Robot Johnny (146 comments total)

2021 Fox News ...
Patricia and Ronald, the parents of Aryan Justice are now suing video game manufacturers...
posted by gunthersghost at 11:37 AM on March 29, 2005

You have to figure that the Catholic Health Inititiatives organization thought twice about putting up that birth page (as they obviously typically do for each baby born at their hospitals).

Incidentally, the laissez faire attitude in the US about baby naming is not the norm worldwide. I understand that in some Scandinavian (where else?) countries there is a review and parents aren't allowed to name their children anything that might cause the child distress. No boys named "Sue" or girls named "Aryan Justice" there.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about that, but I do agree strongly with it insofar as it goes against the American (and other cultures') sense of almost parental ownership of their children.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:38 AM on March 29, 2005

Just look at the hate in her eyes!
posted by dflemingdotorg at 11:39 AM on March 29, 2005

Hey, kid-
have a nice life growin up with ma and paw in th' double-wide....
posted by stevejensen at 11:41 AM on March 29, 2005

wow. this should prove to be the strangest existence this little being could have ever been shat into.
posted by nola at 11:42 AM on March 29, 2005

Kid's kinda ugly, being from a superior race and all...
posted by fungible at 11:45 AM on March 29, 2005

Yep, she's fucked from the get-go (sorry, in redneckese its git-go). Do they have a son named Vigilante and another son named Karmic?

These folks should have their reproductive organs taken away from them, they obviously don't know how to use them properly.
posted by fenriq at 11:45 AM on March 29, 2005

"My name is Sue! How do you do!"
posted by Robot Johnny at 11:46 AM on March 29, 2005

I've heard that Germany had a list of approved names (or a list of forbidden names)--is that so?
posted by amberglow at 11:47 AM on March 29, 2005

Wow, there's a "sign my baby book" feature. So, so tempting... must... resist....
posted by gurple at 11:48 AM on March 29, 2005

I almost signed the baby book by suggesting that they could call her Ari for short :-)

Ethereal-- Registered names are the rule, not the exception in Europe. I agree, naming your childed Aryan Justice is parental ownership in its rawest ugliest form. She'll hate them for this.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 11:49 AM on March 29, 2005

Poor, poor kid. With a name like that one might be able to take her out of the trailer park, but it's not sure that one could take the trailer park out of her.
posted by clevershark at 11:49 AM on March 29, 2005

Good thing she wasn't borned on 4/20.
posted by NewBornHippy at 11:54 AM on March 29, 2005

fungible, maybe that was the justice they were talking about? Seems like someone's getting a laugh at them for their stupidity.
posted by fenriq at 11:54 AM on March 29, 2005

You know, I have relatives that grew up in a nice and tidy little "mobile home" park, and they're not redneck racists. And for a couple of years in college my (now ex) wife and I rented a mobile home in the mountains outside Santa Fe because we couldn't afford to live in town. This flinging around of this stereotype has always sort of bugged me. There's so many things that white, educated, urban people assume as normative that aren't and in so doing reveal their parochialism as much as making fun of someone else's.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:56 AM on March 29, 2005

I second fungible - normally babies are cute and stuff, but this one (even without the name) is pretty hard on the eyes.

Funny that the page suggests that the origin of the name is French...
posted by PurplePorpoise at 11:58 AM on March 29, 2005

Well, her naming makes sense, according to the "born on this date" and "other notable event" George Washington was born the same day, and Woolworth's opened its first stores. Go go gadget pride! viva Feb 22.
posted by Peter H at 12:01 PM on March 29, 2005

Imagine if she got in a coma and had the feeding tube debate.
"ARYAN JUSTICE IS STARVING BEFORE OUR EYES, DEAR JESUS"
posted by Peter H at 12:03 PM on March 29, 2005

"flinging around of this stereotype has always sort of bugged me. There's so many things that white, educated, urban people assume"

Yeah, those darned white, educated, urban people are all SO alike in applying stereotypes to others :-)
posted by RichAromas at 12:07 PM on March 29, 2005

Why couldn't they just have named her Julie?
posted by Peter H at 12:11 PM on March 29, 2005

Once she can walk they can let her loose to misbehave in public then roar "ARYAN JUSTICE!" at random with legitimate cause....that's some forward planning.
posted by fire&wings at 12:11 PM on March 29, 2005

Could be that the family's last name is Justice, not that they named the baby Aryan Justice Whateverthehecktheirlastnameis.

And I lived with a woman named Ariann for a while... which is pronounced the same way Aryan is.

Hey, I know - get her parents Hooked On Phonics as a baby gift!!

JB
posted by JB71 at 12:12 PM on March 29, 2005

Peter H -- because Julie sounds too much like Jew!

Oh, and the family spreads the love on white supremacist message boards...
posted by Robot Johnny at 12:12 PM on March 29, 2005

Will she grow up to become the lead singer of a band named Aryan Justice and the White Hooded Knights?
posted by nkyad at 12:17 PM on March 29, 2005

"Standing at my computer giving a White Power salute right now!"

*backs away from the computer, realizing it's connected to the same internet as this mouthbreather, suddenly feels vaguely dirty and disturbed like he found a fresh, steamy loaf in the hot tub*
posted by loquacious at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2005

R'Johnny, Oh! Oops, you're right. Ha.
What about Blackberry, Lesbos, or Senorita? Those are nice names. I also like Rainbow.

(on preview, if she's in a band named Aryan Justice, I volunteer her first three albums, all high concept with lots of drowned out echo, be titled, "Delayed", "Delirious" and "Declined")
posted by Peter H at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2005

I'd think that she's going to be fucked up eight ways from Sunday not because her name is Aryan Justice but because she's going to be brought up by the kind of racist troglodytes who'd want to name their kid that. She wouldn't end up appreciably less fucked-up if her parents had to name her from a list and chose, say, Eva Braun Surname or Eve Brown Surname or even just Henrietta Beulah Surname.

I don't see much wrong with free naming. If you don't like your name, you can change it, and AFAIK in most states you can just start calling yourself something else without the minor hassle of a "legal" name change so long as you don't intend fraud. I suppose a kid should be able to come before a judicial official in some cheap, easy way and demand a name change irrespective of their parents' wishes.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2005

I gotta agree with JB71, I bet someone made a spelling mistake: Ariane is a French name.
posted by exhilaration at 12:21 PM on March 29, 2005

She needs a tattoo. On her face.
posted by StickyCarpet at 12:26 PM on March 29, 2005

loquacious, you obviously clicked the msg board link too. Me, I'm just curious what "neggors" are. According to 8814princess (the baby's aunt) Portland is swarming with neggors.
posted by Peter H at 12:27 PM on March 29, 2005

She has to share her birthday with that black sumbitch Dr. J. Bet he ain't even really a doctor.

BTW, anyone think that maybe, just maybe her parents didn't give much thought to her name at all and just picked words that sounded pretty to them? Like my former classmate, Formica Dinette? (Really.)

Or maybe they're just two family names.
posted by ColdChef at 12:27 PM on March 29, 2005

ROU_Xenophobe, the laws in many states are that you can change your name just by calling yourself something else, but the reality is somewhat different.

My wife is still in the process of changing her first name, which she wanted to do when we married. It's more than two years later, and she can't change her name on her driver's license or passport without a court order. This is in California, BTW.
posted by 5MeoCMP at 12:30 PM on March 29, 2005

Roseburg, Oregon huh...

Last summer we got a Haggis for a party from Roseburg, which oddly enough was about the size of... Aryan Justice!

mmmmm haggis...gargle.....

It was far more attractive than poor little Aryan.

Soon she will be writing random term papers on White Supremacy for lazy spoiled college debutantes.

In other interesting news from Roseburg...

Roseburg Crime Spree!

Most likely raising funds for the christening...
posted by somnambulist at 12:32 PM on March 29, 2005

A high school world history teacher asked if I had been named for the master race (full name is arianne). I was horribly embarassed until I realized after about a week that he was completely batshit and irretrievably paranoid. One of hitler's lesser crimes was ruining a perfectly good word. As far as it being french, that's debatable, as european derivatives are usually considered to come from ariadne, but some believe it to be a subtle homage to arianism.

I really hope it's a spelling error. Poor kid.
posted by whatnot at 12:35 PM on March 29, 2005

Hey, kid-
have a nice life growin up with ma and paw in th' double-wide....
posted by stevejensen at 1:41 PM CST on March 29

I gotcha man. I've never seen anyone in a doublewide that wasnt racist. Why else would they live in a doublewide? Only trash would live in a doublewide.

Pure comedy. They categorize all black people so they can hate them, and you categorize a group of people on income and living choices so you can look down on someone.

You have so much in common.
posted by justgary at 12:36 PM on March 29, 2005

I'm just wondering about this neggor problem.
posted by Peter H at 12:37 PM on March 29, 2005

I understand that in some Scandinavian (where else?) countries there is a review and parents aren't allowed to name their children anything that might cause the child distress.

I'm somewhat ambivalent about that, but I do agree strongly with it insofar as it goes against the American (and other cultures') sense of almost parental ownership of their children.

This is a pretty complicated issue, isn't it? I think I'd err on the side of not causing the child distress, but of course how do we know what will cause the child distress? Dweezil and Moon Unit didn't seem to mind, and even though (the fictional character) Sue was distressed by having a girl's name, he eventually came around to the other side, didn't he?
posted by Hildago at 12:40 PM on March 29, 2005

jesus fucking christ
posted by docpops at 12:41 PM on March 29, 2005

justgary, thanks for pointing that out. The tendency to reverse-racism needs to have the spotlight pointed on it every so often and this was a pretty blatantly racist comment.

Does neggor have something to do with not finding all the eggs on Easter?
posted by fenriq at 12:41 PM on March 29, 2005

I predict she will rebel against her parents in entertaining ways. Just wait until she brings home her new black boyfriend! I see a remake of Guess Who's Coming to Dinner!
posted by me & my monkey at 12:43 PM on March 29, 2005

Peter H I saw that too. How serious can you be about white nationalism when you can't even spell the n-bomb correctly? Or maybe ignorance is a virtue there.

First, naming an innocent child "Aryan Justice" is one of the worst things I can possibly imagine. To be marked indelibly from birth with a symbol of the absolute worst of humanity, that's a punishment I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies.

Second, just looking at that short little board there was so much hate and ignorance that I could feel my blood rising to my face in shame and anger. The continuing existance (and not even secret - or unpopular!) of places like stormfront.org makes me want to puke my guts up.

Third, the weather in Seattle is really weird right now. Outside my window it keeps getting really bright and really dark, but its mostly overcast. Strange.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 12:44 PM on March 29, 2005

I didn't know the Master Race allowed its children to be born in Catholic hospitals.
posted by fandango_matt at 12:44 PM on March 29, 2005

me & my monkey - your wish already granted!
posted by Peter H at 12:48 PM on March 29, 2005

they misspell the n-word on purpose to get by web blockers and censors (and school filters).
posted by amberglow at 12:51 PM on March 29, 2005

justgary : " I gotcha man. I've never seen anyone in a doublewide that wasnt racist. Why else would they live in a doublewide? Only trash would live in a doublewide."

Er...a square is always a rectangle. A rectangle isn't always a square.

Saying "racists live in doublewides" doesn't say all poor people are racists, it says all racists are poor.

Yeah, it's still probably wrong, but I'm a stickler for details.
posted by bugbread at 12:53 PM on March 29, 2005

As you noticed, the origin of the name is French. So here lies the explication: Aryan is a tribute to Marc Aryan, a French singer, who is unfortunately unknown everywhere, except, apparently, in Roseburg, Oregon... No need to express outrage, this little girl is only named after her father's favorite singer...
posted by Zurgl at 12:53 PM on March 29, 2005

More info on the parents.
posted by fandango_matt at 12:57 PM on March 29, 2005

Poor, poor kid. With a name like that one might be able to take her out of the trailer park, but it's not sure that one could take the trailer park out of her.

I really hope it's a spelling error. Poor kid.

You've all cheapened her name with your poor guessing.
The post trolled the "White Power" which has no proven link here. Can't say enough defending this lil girl than; Delete this thread (meta-talk will leave a record) so she will have no record at what an early age assholes of the world like you will attack!
You have shown the corner of the room you sat in during grade school -- making fun of the non-white kids having the last name “White.”
posted by thomcatspike at 12:59 PM on March 29, 2005

As an aside though, justgary, aren't White Supremacists more hateful towards Jews rather than blacks? My subscription to White Supremisy ran out a couple decades ago so I'm not up on the latest target of hate.

Fenriq, if that's an real question you're asking me, it went straight over my head. If it's a sarcastic comment, it went straight over my head.

I just know a lot of people who put themselves through college while living in a trailer, and I also know a few trailer parks that are quite nice. When I was younger I delivered newspapers to a few.

I know cliches exist, and I know situations where what the poster said are true. But when someone lumps a group of people together with negative connotations on such a thing as living arrangements, and doesn't see the similarities with hating people because of the color of their skin, or religion, it's a little scary.

Saying "racists live in doublewides" doesn't say all poor people are racists, it says all racists are poor.

Semantics. The thought behind the comment is clear.
posted by justgary at 1:02 PM on March 29, 2005

Look at the post above this, Suppressing Free Speech. Coincidence?
posted by thomcatspike at 1:04 PM on March 29, 2005

More info on the parents.

Christ. "Justice" isn't her last name after all. They named their kid "Aryan Justice Deese". Lovely. I think that puts to rest your argument that this is a misunderstanding, thomcatspike. Everyone is understanding each other just fine....
posted by mr_roboto at 1:06 PM on March 29, 2005

In India, Arya, Aryan, etc are common names for boys, but for us it's not a bad word since we are Aryans, and the word is used extensively in the vedas too.
posted by riffola at 1:06 PM on March 29, 2005

I've heard that Germany had a list of approved names (or a list of forbidden names)--is that so?

They used to. Not sure if that changed in the last 10-15 years. There was a big hoo-ha when parents tried to name their kid Pumuckl, but that was before I left....
posted by muckster at 1:06 PM on March 29, 2005

The post trolled the "White Power" which has no proven link here.

thomcatspike: see the link to the birth announcement on the stormfront messageboards.
posted by Robot Johnny at 1:09 PM on March 29, 2005

justgary, it was a serious question. I was under the impression that Nazi-hate movements were more directed at Jews than blacks though I suppose they hate most everyone so its more hair splitting than anything else.

thomcaspike, normally I agree with you but I think you're pretty well wrong in this case. As Mr_Roboto demonstrates above. This was willfull and intentional and hateful.
posted by fenriq at 1:10 PM on March 29, 2005

justgary : " I gotcha man. I've never seen anyone in a doublewide that wasnt racist. Why else would they live in a doublewide? Only trash would live in a doublewide."
Ha haa ha...from you statement. Know you're poorer than trash as you have never been to the beach in the USA – U Inland Looser - I'm serious.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:10 PM on March 29, 2005

I once knew a guy named Aryan (or possibly Arion)... while his last name was not "Justice" it was unfortunate and wholly unpronounceable. He was a pretty good guy, apart from the awful name he was saddled with.

I don't have high hopes for Aryan Justice though. She's got a bit of that "only a mother could love" thing going on.

(As for Scandanvian countries : Iceland has an approved list of names. Strangely enough, you can still name your child Adolf. In Germany, this is verboten - or at least, it was still verboten last I checked, which was some years ago.)
posted by grapefruitmoon at 1:12 PM on March 29, 2005

Maybe they're French Creole transplants?

"Dis my 'lil girl, Ar-yan Jus-tice Deese. Sweetie, brin' Justin Wilson some o'dat good shrimp gumbo. He been pinin' to try it since i sen' him dat re-ce-pie..."

(Looking for any way possible to avoid thinking about some poor baby being saddled with a name that the parents MEANT to be, well, offensive on purpose...)

JB
posted by JB71 at 1:13 PM on March 29, 2005

She's got a bit of that "only a mother could love" thing going on.

Is that what that is? I though the baby was just doing a Harvey Keitel impression...
posted by Robot Johnny at 1:14 PM on March 29, 2005

I was under the impression that Nazi-hate movements were more directed at Jews than blacks though I suppose they hate most everyone so its more hair splitting than anything else.

I would agree with your entire statement, though like you, my monthly newsletter subscription ran out long ago.
posted by justgary at 1:15 PM on March 29, 2005

Thanks fenriq missed the link.
Still look at the thread pancaking the child, not the parents. Her parents ill wills will be known to her when she is an adult.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:16 PM on March 29, 2005

Ironic, that you can be pure Aryan and not white? Google Aryans and this is the first link.

"Their name is derived from the Indo-European root word, "ar," meaning "noble." In Sanskrit, they were the "Aryas" ("Aryans"); but that root, "ar," would also serve as the foundation of the name of the conquered Persian territories, "Iran."

I wonder how the parents would react to being told that their darling princess' name is also the root for Iran and Iraq?
posted by infini at 1:22 PM on March 29, 2005

I thought I had seen everything on the net, and now I've just watched a bunch of people snarking and trashing on an innocent baby.

I wonder how many of the snarkers are named, e.g., Mark, Matthew, John, David -- names from a book which has done far more harm than silly old Stormfront ever could.
posted by felix at 1:29 PM on March 29, 2005

Man, Julie Justice would be a kickass name. For a bounty hunter. Or a porn star.

Slightly off topic, but my place of employ just sent out a turndown letter to a person -- first name Precious, middle name Monee. Classy.
posted by graventy at 1:29 PM on March 29, 2005

2054: President Aryan Justice Deese took to the stage to announce the "Population Freedom Act"--a resettlement program for sectors of our society the President feels "aren't taking advantage of our wide open spaces." New "Freedom Communities" have been set up in the Joshua Tree and Mojave deserts, with more to come.
posted by amberglow at 1:30 PM on March 29, 2005

I expect the name will be the least of her problems in life. I feel terrible for her.
posted by login at 1:30 PM on March 29, 2005

Strangely enough, you can still name your child Adolf.
As a child never connected the name to a grandfather, as hearing it never referenced Hitler’s destruction in thought. Oddly you may have thought otherwise as Hitler was well known throughout the childhood. Especially since it played into the reason why the grandfather immigrated to the USA. It was not until my early adulthood hearing the grandfather being called “Touch” with a following explanation that Hitler became tagged upon hearing or saying; “grandpa Adolph.”

Letting one to decide the meaning than forcing the decision like here with a nick name’s explanation can make brain washing, “Adolph” = bad.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:39 PM on March 29, 2005

Yeah, I think we can all agree now that this was wholly intentional.

Aryan Law is the most in-depth article I could find on what is broadly meant by the phrase, but "Aryan justice" is loosely used as a synonym for assassination (or what they would apparently term automatic sentencing to the death penalty, administered by the community).

One specific source demonstrates the phrase's usage: when a racist serial killer shot several people in Pittsburgh, simply because they weren't white, notorious supremacist Tom Metzger praised him as "delivering Aryan justice". Additionally, Taxi Driver's Travis Bickle is described as visiting a "one-man rampage of Aryan justice" on Harvey Keitel's pimp.

I wonder how the parents would react to being told that their darling princess' name is also the root for Iran and Iraq?

The standard folk-etymology explanation is that Aryan is an Indo-European word meaning "great, noble", which is why those other groups use the word to describe themselves. (Which is only vaguely correct.) The Aryan race is viewed as the legitimate, pure descendant of the original proto-Indo-European race.
posted by dhartung at 1:58 PM on March 29, 2005

dhartung: thanks for the link, I didn't know that. my uncle's traced our family tree to the 8th century and we're pure aryan. ;P
posted by infini at 2:05 PM on March 29, 2005

posted by fandango_matt at 2:05 PM on March 29, 2005

And they're from Oregon. Thanks folks! It's not enough we're the whitest state in the country anyway....
posted by ..ooOOoo....ooOOoo.. at 2:13 PM on March 29, 2005

I think I should confess to you all that we named our cat after Hitler.

Eddie Hitler.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:14 PM on March 29, 2005

"Sweetie, brin' Justin Wilson some o'dat good shrimp gumbo. He been pinin' to try it..."

Nobody says pinin' down here. You say you have an en vie for something.
posted by atchafalaya at 2:20 PM on March 29, 2005

justgary : " Semantics."

Yes. Semantics. Semantics are my life. Sloppy arguments are no less sloppy just because their conclusions are true.

fenriq : " justgary, it was a serious question. I was under the impression that Nazi-hate movements were more directed at Jews than blacks though I suppose they hate most everyone so its more hair splitting than anything else."

I think it depends on where you live. The ones in Texas are mostly focussed on blacks and Hispanics.

thomcatspike : " Letting one to decide the meaning than forcing the decision like here with a nick name’s explanation"

Once again: there's a post on stormfront.org by the kid's aunt. We're not deciding the meaning based on the name. We're deciding the meaning based on the name in conjunction with the kids relative(s) being active on a large neo-Nazi website.

And thomcatspike, please, from time to time, use the word "I". I understand that your writing style generally omits the word "I", but it can be pretty hard to understand what you write sometimes without a second reading. We're not as used to that convention as you are.
posted by bugbread at 2:24 PM on March 29, 2005

> jesus fucking christ

Catchy! But I think it's taken.
posted by Peter H at 2:48 PM on March 29, 2005

bugbread, yeah, I guess that makes sense. Familiarity and proximity breed contempt or something like that.

And felix, the snarkers aren't ripping on the baby (save those folks saying she's not a pretty baby which I personally agree with but am not going to hold the baby responsible for that), they're ripping on the racist asshole parents for saddling a child with a name that immediately evokes a reaction in anyone hearing it. You call her an innocent baby and I agree, she is innocent, she shouldn't be castigated, her parents aren't innocent, they didn't make a mistake, they intended on naming their child after a racist and intolerant group of people. It is the same thing as the racist who named his dog "Nigger" so he could stand on his porch shouting "Come here, Nigger, come here you damned, Nigger" again and again when he lived in racially diverse neighborhood.

thomcatspike, no worries. I figured as much.
posted by fenriq at 2:51 PM on March 29, 2005

bugbread wrote: Saying "racists live in doublewides" doesn't say all poor people are racists, it says all racists are poor.

justgary wrote: Semantics.

You dirty anti-semantic bastard!
posted by gigawhat? at 2:55 PM on March 29, 2005

Today's Dow Jones:

* Dow Jones: 10785.22

Incidentally, am I the only one who found this to be an odd choice for one of the five pieces of info about their date of birth to provide a child with?

"Tell me about the day I was born, Daddy."

"You were born on a sunny spring day, my darling, with light fluffy clouds in the sky and the Dow up 42 points on heavy trading in the energy sector."

"What a time it must've been, Daddy."

"Sure was, Aryan Justice. Sure was. Now go fetch your brother Price-To-Earnings Ratio from the backyard and we'll sit a spell and sing about the days when white men were in charge and shareholder confidence was on the rise."
posted by gompa at 2:56 PM on March 29, 2005

Once again: there's a post on stormfront.org by the kid's aunt. We're not deciding the meaning based on the name. We're deciding the meaning based on the name in conjunction with the kids relative(s) being active on a large neo-Nazi website.

Who decides the meaning of her name that it will be forever tagged; society, parent's background, a relative's explanation or you reading the net?
Speaking of you, really sure this is her aunt's postings? Then if it is her aunt, does she have the true facts?
You have to give with the net this could be false, hear say or troll adding "smear" onto her name. Feel the heavy attack was not full warranted in all this as a baby is always innocent in my world.

Could see, WTF were the parents thinking. Defended her in hoping some positive light could be seen than the commenting hate. Which you have shown in telling how this member’s comments are to be posted.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:11 PM on March 29, 2005

The heavy attack is on her parents. Who gave her this name, now, which has these overtones. Noone has determined it will be forever tagged. However, any discussion of the future is necessarily based on belief and prediction. I believe and predict that Aryan Justice will retain its neo-Nazi overtones at least until she's old enough to get teased for her name, and probably for long after that. I also believe that her parents expect the meaning of "Aryan Justice" to stay the same for the next 20 years, at least. As such, I feel justified in thinking them idiots. I may be wrong. Aryan Justice may mean "looking cute as a button" next year, and "athletic and intelligent" in a few more years. But I seriously doubt it.

Sure, the baby is innocent. We aren't talking (much) about the baby, though. We're talking about her parents.
posted by bugbread at 3:18 PM on March 29, 2005

Sorry all...this thread was off to a bad start by the post having no proof then proof being found latter in the thread. If this was a troll post, bow & salute the ones behind it. Anyone see the movie The Village?\!!!/
posted by thomcatspike at 3:18 PM on March 29, 2005

"Aryan Justice"
May I add one more labeling for some food for thought here.
Thought only Southerners use the first and middle names as one. Very rarely have heard a West Coast person other than a movie star called by two names as one. Unless her parents move to my part of the woods think their plan may be foiled if she is left unknown. I'm betting her age group ignores the name first though.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:28 PM on March 29, 2005

Hildago:

I think I'd err on the side of not causing the child distress, but of course how do we know what will cause the child distress? Dweezil and Moon Unit didn't seem to mind, and even though (the fictional character) Sue was distressed by having a girl's name, he eventually came around to the other side, didn't he?

While Dweezil and M.U. didn't mind, Ahmet Zappa did mind. For a while (I believe around middle school) he insisted on being called "Ricky" mainly because his peers were calling him Ahmet-Vomit. But he eventually got over that.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 3:38 PM on March 29, 2005

Regardless of the parents intent, it is an unfortunate choice of names to put together. If Justice wasn't there, you might, might be able to get away with it. But with this name, a lot of positive feedback from (IMHO) the wrong people will have some effect on her life.

About a decade ago I participated in a class at an Illinois university, where I met Yellowjello and Orangejello. Unfortunately, little Aryan now moves to first place with her name.

If the parents knew what they were doing, and the intent was supremist related - they really have no soul to speak of...
posted by fluffycreature at 3:47 PM on March 29, 2005

Could see, WTF were the parents thinking. Defended her in hoping some positive light could be seen than the commenting hate. Which you have shown in telling how this member’s comments are to be posted.

Could somebody help? I really don't understand what this means?

In the 1990s I had a teacher named REMA (Revolution and Electrification to the World). Her sister was Stalinina. Neither would change her name, though life became difficult after Khrushchev. I'd try not to judge little Ari if she were a child. But this name has to be changed. I don't really think it can or should be rehabilitated.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 3:47 PM on March 29, 2005

Sorry all...this thread was off to a bad start by the post having no proof then proof being found latter in the thread. If this was a troll post, bow & salute the ones behind it.

Meh... Proof or no proof, it's still a funny name. If you want to get all uppity about it, go nuts.

Thought only Southerners use the first and middle names as one.

It's pretty common in birth announcements to list the full name. Check out any of the other newborns on that site, and you'll see they all have their middle names listed, too.

And why do you keep calling me "the member" and "the ones behind it"? I have a name, too! Not as pretty as Aryan Justice or Thomcatspike, mind you...
posted by Robot Johnny at 3:54 PM on March 29, 2005

gesamtkunstwerk : " Could somebody help? I really don't understand what this means"

Me either. Please, thomcatspike, use complete sentences and the word "I".
posted by bugbread at 3:54 PM on March 29, 2005

Rema's also a hebrew name...i went to highschool with a Rema. Was that Rema really all uppercase?

It's not so much the little kids that will tease her--and i don't think she'll be going to public schools (they let just anyone in nowadays, you know)--it's that her whole life is preconstrained by that name, which is totally her parents' fault. What employer will hire her? What college will admit her? What kind of opportunities are being closed off for her, even from birth? What kind of parents limit their child so?
posted by amberglow at 4:03 PM on March 29, 2005

About a decade ago I participated in a class at an Illinois university, where I met Yellowjello and Orangejello.

I'm about 100% certain that this is a lie, fluffycreature.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 4:03 PM on March 29, 2005

amberglow : "What employer will hire her? What college will admit her?"

While I agree with your central contention, if she turns out to be a normal (read: non-neo-nazi) type and goes by "Ary Reese" or what-have-you, I can't see it being too big a problem as far as college (A few comments during the interview: "Yeah, my parents are wackos, which is one of the reasons I want to get away from them and into a more diverse, balanced student body" would probably suffice for a forward-thinking small uni). As for work, it becomes a bit harder to predict, but I doubt all decent employers would reject her. It comes down basically to the people running the interviews and how much they believe the sins-of-the-father concept. However, I do agree that while she might get a fine, decent job in a good company, her luck would be severely impeded.

Outside of that (personal life, etc.), yeah, they're setting her up for a world of pain if she doesn't agree with them.
posted by bugbread at 4:28 PM on March 29, 2005

So the fuck what? Next.
What if her folks are so-called "neo-nazis" -- what business is that of yours? So they're proud of being white. That makes them trash? That means they're uneducated and live a trailer? PFFT. Basically, it's a 91 comment thread making fun of a baby?

This thread is ass and I just couldn't resist making it assier. Rock on!
posted by undule at 4:39 PM on March 29, 2005

when they want me dead and/or out of this country, it's my business, undule. they're not just "proud of being white". (unless you're joking, in which case, i'll just say, "rock on with your bad self")
posted by amberglow at 4:43 PM on March 29, 2005

undule : "Basically, it's a 91 comment thread making fun of a baby?"

Nope, it's a 91 comment thread making fun of parents. I'm surprised so many people have a hard time seeing that.
posted by bugbread at 4:45 PM on March 29, 2005

Amberglow, REMA and Rema are spelled differently in Russian. I agree, Rema (Rima) is a beautiful name.

Making fun of poverty and poor housing isn't nice. But it's hard not to make fun of people who exceed the worst stereotypes. I say the parents are fair game, and I plan on making fun of them as long as it entertains me.

I'll give the kid ten years before I start ridiculing her to her face.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 4:52 PM on March 29, 2005

Could see, WTF were the parents thinking. Defended her in hoping some positive light could be seen than the commenting hate. Which you have shown in telling how this member’s comments are to be posted.

Could somebody help? I really don't understand what this means?
Then go back to the beginning of the thread and read all the comments. Now if you have poor memory following along you may specially read my comments and then find the replying comments after them which will better enable you to figure it all out.

bugbread, please quit repeating yourself – “I” can read. Also, maybe “I” should point out your misspellings so the comments will be better suited to your comprehension.
Peace & hang loose, \!!!/
posted by thomcatspike at 4:58 PM on March 29, 2005

Poor girl ... This is worse than the Marsha Mello I knew ...
posted by The Great Big Mulp at 5:01 PM on March 29, 2005

What would be sweet is if this fifteen minutes of fame for little Aryan lasted, say, her whole life and she became a radical, outspoken advocate for civl rights and tolerance issues. It could happen. I mean, she is just a baby and all.
posted by Toecutter at 5:08 PM on March 29, 2005

The reason for my last comment
Robot Johnny sorry for not calling you by name. "the ones" was the comments only reference eluding to you; not member which was a reference to me. It was only a hope this was a trolling post. So no proof and only a wish was the reasoning behind the reference fyi. Which if it had been a troll, it would have been a great one at that.

Also in regards to the child’s two names being used as one, fully understand that is how a baby announcement is made. Recall the post turned into there may be some proof her parents want her named aired out as both first and middle for a racist meaning. Good find with the commenting links supporting the post. This would be a great follow up in 20 years, “where are they now” story.
posted by thomcatspike at 5:15 PM on March 29, 2005

... Am I the only one that has noticed their guestbook? Why does it contain only three entries? (maybe because it's not the baby's fault...)
posted by bugmuncher at 5:17 PM on March 29, 2005

"I'm about 100% certain that this is a lie, fluffycreature."

Well, as someone else who has been a longtime (though infrequent) participatant of alt.folklore.urban (where snopes and Barbara started), I can tell you that there really are crazy names (as I'm sure Barbara says in that snopes entry) and that something doesn't necessarily have to be "false" to be an urban legend. So you really oughtn't be almost "100% certain" that the claim was false. You are justified in being skeptical, however.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:36 PM on March 29, 2005

Tried the guestbook, but nothing got posted. Me thinks it might have been closed - can't imagine why.

Optimus Chyme: I'm about 100% certain that this is a lie, fluffycreature.

Except for the small fact it was on the seating chart, and these were the names I was to use to call on them. Now I will admit they could have loved their nicknames, but it didn't come across that way. (as an aside they were twins) Thanks for the interesting link though, I still think Aryan moves into first place.
posted by fluffycreature at 5:40 PM on March 29, 2005

thomcatspike maybe use grammar check Before post put in word processing and paste back in in no?
posted by Pretty_Generic at 5:53 PM on March 29, 2005

PG; specifically leave out the 1st person in the comments - a “me me me” world is bad enough. Cheers!
posted by thomcatspike at 5:56 PM on March 29, 2005

What if her folks are so-called "neo-nazis" -- what business is that of yours? So they're proud of being white. That makes them trash?

Yes. Yes it does.
posted by kickingtheground at 6:03 PM on March 29, 2005

It would be kinda mean to flood her baby book wouldn't it? Why not stick it to the real problem instead. I suggest we all start posting on the white supremacist site.
posted by Suparnova at 6:15 PM on March 29, 2005

thomcatspike : " Then go back to the beginning of the thread and read all the comments."

I did. Now what did that post mean? "Could see, WTF were the parents thinking." Well, then, what were they thinking?

I'm not railing on your grammar. Sure, I'm a grammar snob, but that's not the case here. It's just that your comments are exactly as interesting as anyone else's, but require twice the effort to understand.

I mean, if not being communicative is your goal, gura jung ner lbh qbvat cbfgvat va n choyvp sbehz?
posted by bugbread at 6:30 PM on March 29, 2005

It appears that babies is not all the White supremacists are into.

They like poetry

They like to find out about earaches.

And of course they always like to discuss Lord of the Rings and Revisionism
posted by Suparnova at 6:33 PM on March 29, 2005

In defence of the strangest name contest some in here are following i give this nugget of truth:

Aryan Justice can be read several ways.
Orangejello is not so lucky.

Advantage: Orangejello

In the rest of the arguements, failed attempts to make this a "Quit picking on the Kid" thread (Although I see some harping on the physical attributes of said offspring,"Doode! ALL BABYS LOOK LIKE POO when just born to me, this one is not breaking that trend. Babys are at first appearence fugly little beings." ) The kid aint the issue (bad pun there) making like the kid is the issue is a stoopid, transpernent attempt to obviscate the fact that there AINT NO D-FNS for this apparently Racist, possibly just plain ihgnorant Name choice.

Either the mom and dad are blantenly Racist, brasingly defient of all social norms, or in reality HATE THIS LITTLE GIRL!

Screw this i aint even gonna spell-check this....
posted by Elim at 6:38 PM on March 29, 2005

bugbread, most of us understand him fine. take it to meTa and stop derailing
posted by amberglow at 6:38 PM on March 29, 2005

I thought of signing the book too, just to tell the proud parents that the best thing they could do for their race was to stop breeding, but dealing with people like that is hard. I remember going to protest a Klan rally in Iowa. Those fuckers just thrive off hate. There's really no way to talk to them.

The only reason to give your daughter a name that will offend 98% of the people she meets (I hope I'm being an optimist with 98%) is if you want her to be rejected and hated so much she'll never leave your twisted community. This girl won't be able to get a job at Walmart, or a chicken gutting factory. This girl is really pretty fucked. It's a name change or becoming a domestic terrorist for this little one.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 6:40 PM on March 29, 2005

amberglow : "bugbread, most of us understand him fine. take it to meTa and stop derailing"

Apologies, amberglow and thomcatspike. I thought it was just me, so when gesamtkunstwerk also indicated he/she couldn't understand, I thought the problem was more universal. Apparently, I misestimated, and it's just a problem for us two. I didn't mean to derail, it was initially intended to be a helpful request (it certainly doesn't deserve the dr*ma the MeTa inevitably entails), not a snark or a jibe. Again, apologies, and derail terminated.
posted by bugbread at 6:49 PM on March 29, 2005

Posting from the doublewide here... Doublewide resident, with a bachelor’s degree, a full-time job, and a well-used library card. I’m also under forty and consistently vote left-wing.

It’s not the child; it’s the parents.

I am sure this child will have a very hard time not mirroring the attitudes of her parents. My late mother was also a staunch liberal (small l and large L—I’m in Canada) all her life and yet... She would deny this utterly if called on it, but she had more than a few traces of racism in her attitudes toward new Canadians, particularly of Indian or Pakistani origin.

It's hard to fight against that kind of thing from seeping into one's brain, even as--I sincerely hope--an educated, intelligent adult. If I have to stop and work on preconceived prejudices handed down, even if inadvertently, from my parents, what choice does this child have being born into a lifestyle that's so blatantly racist?

Not much.

I really would like to put something scathing in the baby’s Guestbook commentary, but I doubt it would have any effect on the parents whatsoever. And that’s a pity.
posted by Savannah at 7:07 PM on March 29, 2005

Other Interesting People
Born on this Date:....1950 - Julius Erving - Pro basketball star who brought the game to a new level with his leaping ability, incredible hang-time and magnificent dunk shots.

Let's hear it for irony.
posted by jonmc at 7:09 PM on March 29, 2005

Let us all rediscover this thread in 18 years when lil Ari makes her debut in "Black Dicks, White Chicks #24".

She's going to either grow up hating her parents, or everyone else in the multicultural rainbow.
posted by johnjreiser at 7:17 PM on March 29, 2005

"bugbread, most of us understand him fine."

Speak for yourself. I agree with bugbread. But bugbread apparently doesn't know that this has been discussed many times and thomcatspike's weird and sometimes incomprehensible writings are now an accepted metafilter icon.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:18 PM on March 29, 2005

Ethereal Bligh : "bugbread apparently doesn't know that this has been discussed many times and thomcatspike's weird and sometimes incomprehensible writings are now an accepted metafilter icon."

Whoops! You're right. For some reason I was under the impression that thomcatspike was a new poster, so the advice would be (relatively) new. I seem to have been thinking of someone else's join date, though, as thomcatspike has been around since 2002 and so surely the discussion has been had before, and my advice would be far from welcome or new.

So, extra apologies.
posted by bugbread at 7:24 PM on March 29, 2005

I knew a kid named Mike Hunt. I ask, why not Michael?
posted by underer at 7:26 PM on March 29, 2005

About a decade ago I participated in a class at an Illinois university, where I met Yellowjello and Orangejello.

One of my mom's former co-workers was named 'X Y Zebeth', cruel cruel parents. He named his son Jeff.
posted by Tenuki at 7:36 PM on March 29, 2005

Waiting in line to meet Slayer, I met a dude named Arsenio Santos. "Arsenio?" I asked. "It was 1971, who knew?" he said.
posted by jonmc at 7:40 PM on March 29, 2005

Wow - checked out those messageboards - terrifying :/
posted by re_verse at 8:33 PM on March 29, 2005

And of course they always like to discuss Lord of the Rings...

ha... am I the only for whom that link redirects to microsoft.com?
posted by Robot Johnny at 9:07 PM on March 29, 2005

Yes. Semantics. Semantics are my life. Sloppy arguments are no less sloppy just because their conclusions are true.

And true arguments are no less true because of sloppy arguments.

It's metafilter, not your local community college.
posted by justgary at 9:14 PM on March 29, 2005

As much as I hate children, I can't support giving a baby this name. It's not terribly interesting, for starters. However, there is hope.

It's possible she'll keep the name. It's also possible she'll one day get married (say, like to a Greideng Nutz,) then get divorced, but hyphenate her last name. Neither can I rule out that one of the parents dabbles in numerology, and might decide to give her a number as a second middle name, like that reporter for the New York Times. So, there is hope:

Aryan Justice 8. Deese-Nutz.

Because that would be a remarkable name.
posted by trondant at 9:16 PM on March 29, 2005

I found the perfect school for little Aryan Justice Deese : <
posted by amberglow at 9:49 PM on March 29, 2005

(Off the topic of little miss Deese, and about numerical names.)

> ...might decide to give her a number as a second middle name...

My high school German teacher named her first child, a daughter, 9. Not "nine" -- 9. Her third child, a boy, had the middle name of 7 -- again, the numeral -- only he was very specific about how it was to be spelled: it was the German 7-with-the-crossbar. If the crossbar wasn't there, you were misspelling his name.

Her middle child, also a boy, didn't have a number in his name. He was jealous of the other two.

Neat family, all very cool people (apparently 9 was a certified genius).
posted by djwudi at 10:47 PM on March 29, 2005

Both their kids are...odd?
posted by FormlessOne at 11:22 PM on March 29, 2005

The Baby name voyager claims over 200 Aryans per million.

Still looks like this name was intentional though: the stormfront poster does have a posting history.

Still, don't assume every Aryan you meet has racist parents. She won't necessarily follow her parents' beliefs anyway. Good luck to you Aryan...
posted by TheophileEscargot at 11:38 PM on March 29, 2005

justgary : " It's metafilter, not your local community college."

Justgary, I counter you with: "It's metafilter, not your local community college."
posted by bugbread at 1:33 AM on March 30, 2005

Regarding Orangejello, etc. -- I made a post to a mailing list a year or so ago, as follows:

I just found a Lemongello Myers referred to on this page: http://www.infinityfish.com/teenagetease/news.html , a skateboard shop web site.

"Congratulations to Lemongello Myers, the winner of January's Teenage Tease Deck Give Away!!!!"

Now, whether that is the name on his birth certificate, I do not know.

I also checked the Social Security Death Index (http://www.newenglandancestors.org/research/database/ss/default.asp), where I find no Orangejellos, but:

Orangelo NEAL 1912- 1999 Chicago IL (SSN issued in MS)
Orangelo TURNER 1911-1984 Ferriday LA 71334 (SSN issued in MS)
Orangelo J RATTO 1895-1988 Washington DC (SSN issued in DC)

No Lemonjellos, Lemongellos, Lemongelos, etc. (at least as a first name), though there are a bunch of folks with the first name Lemon.

So the names aren't completely impossible, though the widespread legend seems pretty bogus (I've heard it from so many people -- "My mom was a teacher and two of her students were Orangejello and Lemonjello!" -- that I tend to think it is just another FOAF story). But I am sure there have been at least some people with those names.

My husband has said for a long time that he would name our first child Chief Justice. This is, perhaps, why we do not yet have children.
posted by litlnemo at 5:17 AM on March 30, 2005

I find it interesting that this hospital/service doesn't require some level of authorization to access the information as many hospitals' online nusery sites appear to be (albeit some exceptions)? Curious if HIPAA compliancy is driving the change?

posted by deemer at 7:29 AM on March 30, 2005

My mom works for a school photography company, and she's met more than one Lemonjello and Orangejello.

As for unbelievable FOAF stories, the one I have a tough time with is another friend's mom (who worked in the delivery ward of a large local hospital) who knew a baby named Acetaminophen...
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:18 AM on March 30, 2005

I did. Now what did that post mean? "Could see, WTF were the parents thinking." Well, then, what were they thinking?
We already know what the parents were thinking if the aunt's post is true.
"WTF were the parents thinking" is why you are here in a thread reading and commenting about the girl's name.

I counter you with
Bugbread, do you speak British or American English?
Translation books that translate a foreign language into English may have a difference besides the flag, UK or USA, on the cover of it.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:51 PM on March 30, 2005

thomcatspike : " Bugbread, do you speak British or American English?
"Translation books that translate a foreign language into English may have a difference besides the flag, UK or USA, on the cover of it."

First, to make sure we're off on the right foot: I'm no longer making any complaints and suggestions about your prose style. My suggestion was based on my own mistake about how long you'd been a member.
As for what I speak: 99.5% American English (raised in Texas, uni in California). The remaining 0.5% comes from not having lived in an English speaking country for the last 9 years, resulting in more influence coming from the internet and the English speakers around me, which tends to include Brits and Aussies (hence using the word "uni", the expression "take the piss", but otherwise being pretty American in speech).

I'm not sure what you mean by a translation book, though. Do you mean a dictionary, or a translated book?
posted by bugbread at 2:17 PM on March 30, 2005

dictionary good catch \!!!/
posted by thomcatspike at 2:33 PM on March 30, 2005

Yeah, yeah, and there was this firefighter who named his twins Jose and Hose B, and then there was this family that was asked "what will you name your new daughter?" And they said "The nice people at the hospital have already given her a name....it's Female (fem-a-lay)."
posted by fixedgear at 3:34 PM on March 30, 2005

Jane to Michael: I know a man with a wooden leg named Smith
Michael: Really, what's the name of his other leg?
posted by deemer at 4:10 PM on March 30, 2005

Hi you guys

I'm the poor sucker who had to delete all those messages -- well actually they're just hidden. I work for the service that provides the baby announcements, and I got up the other morning and the language catcher was going berserk!!!

Anyway, I basically turned off that babybook thing for that baby a while ago, so any messages you put on it are destined for /dev/null I think that page was linked to every blog this side of neptune, and it was getting just too much trouble.

We're just a small outfit (like less than 5 employees) that provides the uploading and picture taking capabilities to the hospitals, and the whole thing is pretty automated. I'm not even sure if the hospital itself knows about that baby, or if they care. Its probably pretty hard to tell people not to name their kid something, or to restrict their ability to make a birth announcement based only on the name. I dono to be honest.

As for HIPA, I think the law is that no baby can be on a public listing for more than 90 days, and individual hospitals have differing policies about allowing the public to view announcements etc. In some ways its kind of dumb, because you can go to your local hall of records and view all the babies born in your area - its perfectly legal and part of public record. Believe me they have lawyers who make sure all that stuff is up to date -- any time you do anything with a hospital web site it has to be approved by their legal people.

As for the format, the web site shows the first and middle name only, and ya, I saw the Neo-Nazi site the aunt posted on, so I'm sure they did it on purpose. I've never had any communications with the parents and I don't even live in the same town, so they're just one among many many babies on our system.

So, I'm the only one who's actually read those baby book messages, as my bos told me to just junk all of them. There are a number of pro-neo-nazi messages too.. it's pretty sad really.

I hope you realize that I have to keep track of like 100,000 babies and this is the only one so far that's causes such a giant reaction -- hopefully the last.

Thanks and hope you understand that us on the hospital web server end are kind of stuck in it too -- give us a break :) :)

-z (admin@newbabynews.net)

Sometime i'm going to archive some of the more fantastic names i've seen (sans link to the babies) -- there have been some beuts!!!
posted by zedman at 4:17 PM on March 30, 2005

Zedman, no worries, nobody is in the slightest blaming you guys.
posted by bugbread at 4:23 PM on March 30, 2005

Zedman, I would love to see an archive of the unusual names you've seen. I hope you do set one up sometime.
posted by litlnemo at 4:46 PM on March 30, 2005

Zedman: Thanks so much for joining mefi and giving us the inside scoop. Be assured, no one that was paying attention thought you guys had anything to do with this. In my first comment I think I tried to make it clear that it appeared to me (correctly, it turns out) that this was a thing a regional hospital does automatically.

Is there no concern on the part of your higher-ups about even the baby's name itself? Not that I think there should be—this is automatic for all your babies. But people are awfully skittish about this type of thing. I can imagine some high-up hospital administrator freaking out.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 4:55 PM on March 30, 2005

Thanks. This is a pretty cool site, thus I ponied up the fiver :)
(Plus I know servers cost money !)

I'm just a programmer geek, so I don't interact so much with the powers that be. Newbabynews provides the support, web servers, and uploading parts to a number of hospitals that they just bolt into their existing web site. The hospital would have had the baby name on record with all the paper work that goes on, but they are not really in the web loop that much. The family signs a release and is there when the pics are taken -- they chose one they like and then the system generates the baby page based on the birthdate etc.

I would guess they didn't say anything at all, because as you can imagine there might be a real stink made about discrimination or who knows what legally. I'm probably OK to talk about it because i'm not employed by the hospital itself, just the web service. It would be difficult to write a policy that disallowed certain names besides maybe the 7 words you can't say on TV or something like that. Somehow I don't think these issues come up that often!!!

I gotta tell you when I got the call on this one my Boss said someone named their kid Aryan Justice and people are bombing the babybooks, and being kind of sleepy I thought why would people bomb a book for the name Arianne ?? Heh.. figured it out pretty fast :)

Babybooks do get bombed from time to time, especially when there are paternity cases, or disgruntled x's n stuff, but nothing like this one.

The hospital people are probably freaking out, but quietly :)

-z
posted by zedman at 5:25 PM on March 30, 2005

Thanks, zedman--interesting to read about it from your end.

I too, want to read about the Odd, Bad, Weird Baby Names!
posted by Savannah at 8:03 PM on March 30, 2005

Though it's not Zedman's site, the place to go for odd, bad, weird baby names is here. Warning -- it is amazingly funny.
posted by litlnemo at 5:46 AM on March 31, 2005

Oh... wow. Well, the first two are probably ethnic, so that doesn't seem odd to me. But "Weed"? "Simplicidi"? Ack.
posted by litlnemo at 11:14 AM on April 1, 2005

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