Return of Lollapalooza
April 22, 2005 4:31 PM   Subscribe

Lollapalooza returns to Chicago this summer with a line up that I'm actually a little excited about. Presented by Parkways Foundation it looks like the damage that might be done to Grant Park by the two day festival might just be covered by the proceeds.
posted by FlamingBore (87 comments total)
 
what a crap line-up
posted by angry modem at 4:52 PM on April 22, 2005


The Gen-X oldies tour pulling in....

You have become the boomers you once derided. Buy a riding lawn mower and a recliner, guys.
posted by jonmc at 4:56 PM on April 22, 2005


Good lord, are you suggesting that people might actually enjoy seeing the same artists they enjoyed ten years ago? But... but... they're old now!

For those whose enjoyment of Frank Black is dependent entirely upon his being young and unknown, though, there's still some good bands on the lineup. The Arcade Fire may be the latest annoying 'it' band, but they're also an incredible live act, as are The Walkmen. And it's nice to see the Digable Planets making an inexplicable comeback.
posted by Simon! at 5:25 PM on April 22, 2005


Wow, the coolies and swanky cynic crowd! PFFT.

Lineup looks cool to me -- I'd go just to see Death Cab for Cutie and Brian Jonestown Massacre. But only in Chicago, it appears? Too bad.
posted by undule at 5:27 PM on April 22, 2005


Good lord, are you suggesting that people might actually enjoy seeing the same artists they enjoyed ten years ago? But... but... they're old now!

As someone who just paid $40 for Paul Westerberg tickets (and who's music collection is 90% music recorded pre-1980) I'd be the last person to deny that.

But the Lolla/Gen-X/alt-rock crowd made an awful big show of mocking baby-boomers for listening to "over the hill" 60's acts who didn't quit before they became "irrelevant." And now that they're approaching 40, they're going to see reunion tours of acts from their own youth.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

The Arcade Fire may be the latest annoying 'it' band,

Arcade Fire are the latest proof that any band with "buzz," (whether it's from the mainstream or the "underground") sucks canal water.
posted by jonmc at 5:42 PM on April 22, 2005


There's a mix of old stuff and new artists who weren't around during the first lollapalooza. But I get what jonmc is saying, they should call this event something else and stop trying to cling to something that was already lame by the time I could drive.

As far as my tastes go, Billy Idol is the only inexecusable participant. If they were going for irony, Shatner would've made a better choice.

Also, Tegan and Sara are the best sibling act since the Del Rubio Triplets.
posted by BigFatWhale at 5:45 PM on April 22, 2005


Arcade Fire are the latest proof that any band with "buzz," (whether it's from the mainstream or the "underground") sucks canal water.

You most definitely have not seen the Arcade Fire play.
posted by dobbs at 5:47 PM on April 22, 2005


From what I've heard of their recordings, I have no interest in hearing them play live. They sound like 3rd rate Velvet Underground imitators with a bad David Byrne imitator singing. YMMV.

*cranks "Pussy & Money", sips beer, sinks deeper into chair*
posted by jonmc at 5:53 PM on April 22, 2005


jonmc, didn't you say in a thread a while back that you hated all music made since 1978 or something? You and I have been over this whole thing: they sound nothing like the Velvet Underground--nothing--and he doesn't sound like David Byrne at all. It is a totally whack comparison! Not liking something is totally sufficient without indulging in crazy comparisons--I might as well say I hate The Killers because they sound like third-rate Association imitators with a Mick Fleetwood sound-a-like singer.

Anyway, the lineup looks okay. Some good bands, some kind of boring bands. I saw the Pixies on their reunion tour and they were pretty good, but not awesome. The main thing that strikes me about it is that, except for Arcade Fire, a lot of the bands are a little over-the-hill--like, for example, Cake. I didn't even know they were still together. Personally, the only bands I would stay up late to see are Arcade Fire, M83, and the Walkmen. I've never seen M83, but both Arcade Fire and Walkmen are great live bands.
posted by josh at 5:58 PM on April 22, 2005


For the record: I hate the Killers because they sound like third-rate Interpol imitators, and because I could've come up with their band name when I was twelve.
posted by josh at 6:00 PM on April 22, 2005


You and I have been over this whole thing: they sound nothing like the Velvet Underground--nothing--and he doesn't sound like David Byrne at all. It is a totally whack comparison!

Keep telling yourself that, but I have ears and I've been listening to music longer than you, I'll bet and I know what I hear. And I have no hip credentials to maintain so I have nothing to gain by stating my opinion of them.

As far as the show itself goes...hell, I like the Pixies and Cake (although their "Rock and Roll Lifestyle" is a brilliant skewering of everything the Lolla crowd represents.) but let's not pretend this show is anything but a nostalgia tour with a few new acts thrown in so that the aging hipsters can feel like they're still "edgy."

on preview: Interpol are another overrated buzz band. I heard and they weren't unlistenable or anything, but I never could figure out what I was supposed to be so impressed by.
posted by jonmc at 6:06 PM on April 22, 2005


Y'know, I've been a music addict since I was about six years old, but I never understood why so many fans view music as a contact sport. It's not a zero-sum game... your music can be beautiful and life-changing, even while music you don't want to listen to is beautiful and life-changing for someone else. Ignore the chatter and believe your ears, because they'll seldom lie to you.
posted by BoringPostcards at 6:08 PM on April 22, 2005


Lollapalooza linky brokey...
posted by Kloryne at 6:29 PM on April 22, 2005


I agree with BoringPostcards. I suspect you _have_ been listening to music longer than I have, jonmc, but honestly, I could care less about that--my Dad's been listening to music longer than I have and his favorite band is still ELO. I don't have any 'hip' credentials to maintain either. You seem to have reverse-hip credentials! And you justify your my-music-is-holider-than-your-music attitude using only, as far as I can see, chronology.

You can like, or not like, the music I like all you want. What I object to is your attitude, which is unnecessarily negative and pissed-off, and your conviction that the only reason people like bands you don't like is because they're suckers for hype. Couldn't it be possible that other people simply have different musical tastes? That people now like different sounds than people did ten, twenty, thirty, forty years ago? This is far more likely than the vast media brainwashing music conspiracy you seem to imply.

In sum: I'm just totally done with this whole authenticity / cred / music pissing contest thing. I got tired of it when I did college radio, and the internet has just made it more irritating and, somehow, more irritatingly postmodern, since now everyone proves they're authentic by claiming not to be a 'rockist.'

Anyway... the only oldies tour I want to see this summer is New Order.
posted by josh at 6:30 PM on April 22, 2005


Josh: ELO rules. Your dad has good taste!
posted by Kloryne at 6:36 PM on April 22, 2005


I suspect you _have_ been listening to music longer than I have, jonmc, but honestly, I could care less about that--my Dad's been listening to music longer than I have and his favorite band is still ELO.

ELO are better than 90% of the bands on the Lolla line-up, and The Move (Jeff Lynne's pre-ELO outfit is better than 99% of them. [the Pixies would be the 1%])

Listen, all I did was point out the fact that Lolla has become the type of nostalgia event that it always derided. Then I said that I thought Arcade Fire sucked. And Arcade Fire and Interpol are major league buzz bands that you can't open a magazine, read a blog or have a conversation in a record store without some bonehead raving about how there the best thing going. And if you question that people get all pissy.

Like I said in a nother thread once, if you listen to enough older stuff then just about all newere stuff sounds derivative and usually badly so.

Couldn't it be possible that other people simply have different musical tastes?

Yes. And I am free to dissect and mock those tastes mercilelessly and you mine. Hell, I fully expect people to tear apart stuff I like, and I am rarely disappointed. Your favorite band sucks. Get over it. And New Order suck too.
posted by jonmc at 6:38 PM on April 22, 2005


Oh, and Johnmc: You'd maybe be more impressed with Interpol if you were a straight chick. I am quite impressed with the lead singer and guitarist. Still haven't paid attention to what they sound like, though.
posted by Kloryne at 6:39 PM on April 22, 2005


Oops, meant jonmc...
posted by Kloryne at 6:41 PM on April 22, 2005


kloryne, darling, you can't hear looks. I quite enjoyed watching Samantha Fox jiggle herself around back in the day, but that dosent mean I want to hear any of her records.
posted by jonmc at 6:42 PM on April 22, 2005


Yeah, that's kind of the point I was trying to make.

However, thanks for the Samantha Fox flashback. Oh god! The chainmail...
posted by Kloryne at 6:44 PM on April 22, 2005


Well said, BoringPostcards. I don't understand why discussions on music ends up in a barking match, either. But I think some of the answer lies in jonmc's last comment:

"...but I never could figure out what I was supposed to be so impressed by."

Who's trying to impress you? I doubt Interpol is, or any other band, for that matter.

I don't mean to pick on jonmc, so please don't take it that way. I'm just don't get why people who don't like a particular type of music always blame the music. It's like it's not enough to just say "Nah, not for me", when that's really the case. People have to rip on it and make it about the music instead of about their taste in music.

People aren't usually the same way with say - food, or movies, even - which is just as subjective but (seemingly) not half as personal.
posted by 27 at 6:45 PM on April 22, 2005


ah samantha...to quote author Rick Ridgway "if you lined up all the boners she inspired, you'd have a monorail to mars."

and what josh hasn't figured out is that I hate authenticity and "cred," more than he does, and I've spent plenty more time listening to people spout about it.


Who's trying to impress you?


The music fans, bloggers, and critics who gush about how terrific they are. Then I decide to take a listen and I'm all like "so what?" That happens enough and you start to get irritated with all the hubris and hype.

People aren't usually the same way with say - food, or movies, even - which is just as subjective but (seemingly) not half as personal.

Music is a lot more personal. Whole subcultures are bulit around it. So when people say that somethat moves you sucks, it's like saying that you suck. That's the explanation I've come up with.
posted by jonmc at 6:49 PM on April 22, 2005


Boy, there's nothing that makes me feel older than seeing bands that I've never even heard (Pixies, Dinosaur, Jr.) referred to as oldy nostalgia acts. I've heard of them and I've always meant to get around to listening to them but haven't.
posted by octothorpe at 6:56 PM on April 22, 2005


The music fans, bloggers, and critics who gush about how terrific they are.

They're trying to impress you? Sorry, I have a different take. Fans/bloggers are sharing what they're into. Critics are doing their job... and a lot of times, they're trying to impress you with their review and not the band/music itself.

Music is a lot more personal.

More personal than something you put in your mouth? Again, not for me. And subcultures develop around all kinds of things pertaining to personal taste (music, food, sex acts, movies, TV shows, websites, sports teams, etc.)

So when people say that somethat moves you sucks, it's like saying that you suck.

Now I think we're getting somewhere. The only reason to rip on music that somebody likes is to passive-agressively piss on them - without actually pissing on them.

Which is sorta lame.
posted by 27 at 6:58 PM on April 22, 2005


Like I said in a nother thread once, if you listen to enough older stuff then just about all newere stuff sounds derivative and usually badly so.

I just have to call bullshit on this jonmc. I think it is your endless devotion to music gods of the past that blinds you to the music gods of the present. I'm not saying the Arcade Fire are music gods--but there's plenty of music being made today that is not crummily derivative of older pop music.

and what josh hasn't figured out is that I hate authenticity and "cred," more than he does, and I've spent plenty more time listening to people spout about it.

And I have to disagree with this too. You're always complaining about how band x has influenced band y who influenced band z, and all of us who like band z don't know what we're talking about. This method is all about cred and authenticity. And it doesn't work, you can play it with any band. In fact, I bet we could take 99% of pop bands today and show how they are rip-offs of the Velvet Underground! That would be fun--though pointless.

I actually have no opinion about ELO, except that I *think* I saw them open for Jethro Tull, who I liked a lot in high school, when I was fifteen or so. I can't remember if it was them, or some other similar band. The only cool part was that at the end the dude smashed his synthesizer with his guitar; I don't really remember the music. Is that possible? Are ELO still around? Tull was cool--this was before the huge train-wreck of their record "JTull.com."

And, on a festival note, and as someone pointed out in the ILM thread on this same subject, this festival looks a lot cooler. Also, I have to amend my previous statement: though I would like to see New Order (who don't suck), the real reunion tour of the summer is Roxy Music.
posted by josh at 7:01 PM on April 22, 2005


Kinda wish the name "Lollapalooza" would go away and they'd have new festivals made by new kids for new kids. Also not hearing David Byrne or VU in the Arcade Fire tracks I, uh, have access to, though the one singer sounds a hell of a lot like Bjork to me.
posted by furiousthought at 7:01 PM on April 22, 2005


Roxy Music, by the way, totally rip off the Velvet Underground, and their singer sounds just like David Byrne. Oh, wait....
posted by josh at 7:03 PM on April 22, 2005


Oh, damn, I take it back--turns out Brian Eno is not in the reunion tour. For all of you who were wondering.
posted by josh at 7:12 PM on April 22, 2005


It's a little silly to say that "And now that they're approaching 40, they're going to see reunion tours of acts from their own youth" when last year's Lollapalooza had to be cancelled for lack of ticket sales. As near as I can tell, the only big "reunion" tours going on are by bands who broke up before most of their current fans had even heard of them. There is a qualitative difference, I think, in going to see the Pixies' 2004 tour and in going to see, say, Soul Asylum playing at the state fair.
posted by aaronetc at 7:12 PM on April 22, 2005


"music as a contact sport"

MOSH PIT!!! - Oh wait, that was two and a half generations of music ago. Nevermind.
posted by mischief at 7:13 PM on April 22, 2005


Holy hell! Roxy music is touring? I can't wait! I hope y'all will keep posting tour dates of bands some of you hate and some of you don't so I can plan my summer music schedule.

I'm serious.
posted by Kloryne at 7:18 PM on April 22, 2005


And if you question that people get all pissy.

Probably because your method of questioning is ridiculous. You compared the sound of Arcade Fire to the sound of Velvet Underground which makes it pretty clear you've never listened to both bands very clearly as they sound nothing alike. The only similarity is that both bands made a brilliant full-length debut.

the Pixies would be the 1%

Their records are great but they are one of the most boring live bands I've ever seen (twice!).

And jonmc, in case you didn't notice, your attitudes about music and the way you express them are EXACTLY the same as the hipsters you deride. You're just more close-minded and have worse taste.

but I have ears and I've been listening to music longer than you,

With lines like this you should write for the Pitchfork Old-timers.
posted by dobbs at 7:21 PM on April 22, 2005


Sadly, this doesn't seem to be a summer option
posted by Kloryne at 7:26 PM on April 22, 2005


I never liked Roxy Music either.

You compared the sound of Arcade Fire to the sound of Velvet Underground which makes it pretty clear you've never listened to both bands very clearly as they sound nothing alike.

What, I'm supposed to spend hours poring over some band just because everybody and his brother says they're the Second Coming? I heard them perform on some TV show, didn't like what I heard. I'm supposed to investigate further just to satisy you, dobbs?

You're just more close-minded and have worse taste.

I have different taste. and I listen to plenty of bands you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole, and you're here tirelessly championing two bands that every hipster asshole on the planet has given the nod to. So who's close minded?
posted by jonmc at 7:26 PM on April 22, 2005


I'm supposed to investigate further just to satisy you, dobbs?

Not at all. I couldn't give a shit if you like them or not. My complaint is that you spout on as if you've got an informed opinion while being completely unaware that the comparison you're making eliminates any credibility you may have.

If you make a bullshit claim about what a band sounds like don't expect people who've been listening to them for years to not call you on it. (I'd expect you'd do the same were I to chime in about the similarities between the Replacements and GWAR.)

I listen to plenty of bands you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole

No doubt. My remark was about quality not quantity.

you're here tirelessly championing two bands that every hipster asshole on the planet has given the nod to.

Well, first of all, I only "championed" one band (and only because you were speaking out of your ass--otherwise I wouldn't have commented on them at all). Second, tirelessly? Please, I said you've obviously never seen them live (and was correct) and then I said your comparison was bunk (also correct).

So who's close minded?

Still you. But thanks for asking my opinion.
posted by dobbs at 7:48 PM on April 22, 2005


Please, I said you've obviously never seen them live

Does that mean I can't sit at the cool kids table?

(I'd expect you'd do the same were I to chime in about the similarities between the Replacements and GWAR.)

Actually, there are plenty of similarities. Both liked volume, goofy shock tactics, and affectionate satire of rock cant.

Excuse me if I don't like hype and I don't feel like wasting my time on some two-bit indie outfit just because all the hep kids are grooving to them.
posted by jonmc at 7:53 PM on April 22, 2005


My favorite band can kick your favorite band's ass.
posted by muckster at 7:59 PM on April 22, 2005


Does Lollapalooza have anything to do with Perry Farrell anymore? You want to feel old, just sit through this whole video.
posted by eatitlive at 8:00 PM on April 22, 2005


Keep telling yourself that, but I have ears and I've been listening to music longer than you, I'll bet and I know what I hear.

dude, I think I've been listening to music (though not so much the same stuff) for about as long as you, and I do not see the VU / arcade fire connection at all. I like both bands, too, but for completely different reasons. And I gotta agree with josh that you come off a bit like the equal & opposite reaction to the pretensious hipster...

You'd maybe be more impressed with Interpol if you were a straight chick. I am quite impressed with the lead singer and guitarist. Still haven't paid attention to what they sound like, though.

?no. I have no idea what they look like, but they're a good band. The lead singer has a distinctive voice, and the mood they manage to create is somehow both detached and intense at the same time. I think they've got a really cool sound.

The link's broken so I can't see the rest of the line up...
posted by mdn at 8:09 PM on April 22, 2005


jonmc,

as someone who not only loves paul westerberg, but was lucky enough to him (self link), i agree with you that most music today isnt worth the bandwidth used to download it.

with that said The Arcade Fire definately lives up to the hype. and how many modern-rock-alt bands has david byrne jumped on stage to sing with?

i wish i could find the torrent of the Arcade Fire on Conan, cuz then i think you'd understand that you really need to see them to fully get them (a problem i have often seen rectified when turning people on to Tom Waits and the Mats).

anyway, im going to Coachella next week and if i could i would trade those tickets for this lineup in Chicago. fortunately i might be able to see both.

pixies, weezer, dinosaur... damn.
posted by tsarfan at 8:15 PM on April 22, 2005


that should have been "interview him"
posted by tsarfan at 8:16 PM on April 22, 2005


And I gotta agree with josh that you come off a bit like the equal & opposite reaction to the pretensious hipster...

Someone has to be.

the mood they manage to create is somehow both detached and intense at the same time.

this is the crux of what turns me off to them. "detached" is an anathema to good rock and roll to me. If you're not gonna be sincerely emotionally involved then fuckin' forget it, man.

dude, I think I've been listening to music (though not so much the same stuff) for about as long as you, and I do not see the VU / arcade fire connection at all.


all I can tell you is what my ears heard: dissonant guitar lines, jerky rhythms, atonal vocals, "alienated" stance sounds like the VU to me, only without Lou Reed's rock instincts and sense of humor. YMMV, but you know what, I'm an old guy now*, I only have some much time and inclination to spend hours trying to appreciate something just because the whole worlds telling me it's so terrific. I've been burned too many times before. I'd rather look for stuff I haven't heard in places I like. And there's probably plenty of stuff that I love that you haven't heard and wouldn't like. Dug Don & Dewey lately? Leaf Hound? the Bell Rays? Eddie Hinton? Eddie Hazel? Joe Bataan?

Probably not. And it's probably because it's not your bag and you have limited time an resources to investigate them. But you don't hear those bands names shouted from every rooftop incessantly, and nobody condemns you for not digging them.

tsarfan: as someone who's opinons I usually respect, Let me tell you, Conan is where I saw them. I stayed up to check it out mainly because people wouldn't shut up about them, like Interpol and countless others before them. That appearance is where my impressions come from. Sorry, but I've heard the gospel and was not converted.
posted by jonmc at 8:21 PM on April 22, 2005


* I'm sure some of you are old guys, too, but I'm comfortable with the fact that I'm far less interested in new fromteirs in conciousness than I used to be, it's part of growing older, I guess.
posted by jonmc at 8:22 PM on April 22, 2005


Does that mean I can't sit at the cool kids table?

Well you do seem to have a rather bizarre fascination with the cool kids. You sure mention them enough. You're behaving like the boy who pulls the braids of the girl he secretly has a crush on. So... tell you what, you can have my seat. Cool kids give me a rash.

Excuse me if I don't like hype...

The trick is to stay ahead of the hype...

the Bell Rays?

... for instance, here's here's an unreleased track for ya that they donated to my 2003 Blogathon. ;)
posted by dobbs at 8:46 PM on April 22, 2005


jon, I wasn't trying to convince you that you should change your mind about what bands you like; I just don't think you need to keep making a point of telling everyone else that "someday they'll learn" that they were wrong about what's constitutive of good music. You are entirely free to not be into Interpol or Arcade Fire, but you should learn to accept that some of the people who enjoy these bands actually enjoy them, and aren't merely trying to sound cool.

Undoubtedly, as has always been the case, with every single band in history, there are some people who become followers to fit into a certain crowd. But again, that's true of fans of every kind of music. Perhaps it's worth assuming that people who intelligently express an interest in a kind of music, especially semi-anonymously and on a geeky internet board, are honestly sharing their personal experience, not hoping to impress you.
posted by mdn at 8:52 PM on April 22, 2005


Well you do seem to have a rather bizarre fascination with the cool kids

Mainly, that's because, in my experience, the people who consider themselves "in the know," in alternative circles have tended to be as insufferably rigid, trendy and conformist as those in mainstream circles, and it irritates me more because i got into rock and roll to get away from that stuff. It irritates me when I read every zine or blog and find them gushing about the same flavor of the month and at the same time somehow thinking they're so iconoclastic for doing so. Do you understand what 'm talking about here?

That's why I avoid "scenes" entirely. If you just ignore it all and follow the music you like where it leads you, it saves a lot of wasted time I've found. And it seems to have led to a very different place than a lot of my generational peers, for what it's worth.

You are entirely free to not be into Interpol or Arcade Fire, but you should learn to accept that some of the people who enjoy these bands actually enjoy them, and aren't merely trying to sound cool.

I'm sure some people are. It's just the fact that you can't go two feet lately without hearing someone tell you how great they are that makes me wonder about a lot of it. And I think you'd grant that we hear a lot more gushing about Interpol than we do about say Jason & the Scorchers. And I'm just tired of getting astnished gasps or knowing snickers from people when I say I don't dig them.

are honestly sharing their personal experience, not hoping to impress you.

I sincerely doubt that anyone anywhere on the planet has ever done anything to impress me, but impress people in general, yeah people do say things to do that.
posted by jonmc at 8:58 PM on April 22, 2005


josh and 27 seem to have the same bond to music that I do... that quaint notion that it's all about what you like.

And mischief.. *smooch* baby! If it wasn't for you, I'd wouldn't know half the music I love today. But you knew that already.
posted by BoringPostcards at 9:20 PM on April 22, 2005


That's why I avoid "scenes" entirely. If you just ignore it all and follow the music you like where it leads you, it saves a lot of wasted time I've found.

Yeah, but you're not ignoring or avoiding, obviously, or you wouldn't be so upset.

It irritates me when I read every zine or blog and find them gushing about the same flavor of the month

Well don't read them. That's what I do.

Also, understand that just because you just heard of a band doesn't mean they're a flavor of the month, regardless of how many people are in the same boat as you. There are people who, for years, have been listening to bands you've only just discovered--here's Bell Rays and AF photos from 3 and 2 years ago. (I'm not trying to pull a "I was listening to them before they were hip" on you but you're reacting as if everyone just saw them on the cover of such and such magazine and was instantly converted without any consideration for whether they actually like the band(s).)

Do you understand what 'm talking about here?

A little, I guess. I mean I can't stand Radiohead, the Darkness, Coldplay, Oasis, or, you know, Sting, Phil Collins, or Bowie. I wish they'd all go away and that people would stop talking about them but I don't turn rabid when they're mentioned.

(That said, I have heard every Radiohead, Oasis, Coldplay, the Darkness, and Bowie album ever made. I didn't hear them sing one song on a television show and write them off. Do you understand what I'm talking about here?)

You make me wish there was a way of picking who we're matched with on the Mefi Swaps. I'd love to hear what you would put together.
posted by dobbs at 9:32 PM on April 22, 2005


Someone has to be.

No, jonmc, nobody has to be an asshole. But that's your choice. You're now officially the ParisParamus of music threads -- derailing them and defending the indefensible (de gustibus non est disputandum), until the thread's entirely about you. Shut it.

From where I sit, the Arcade Fire are worth every bit of the hype. Funeral is an album of startling maturity and is a completely illogical choice for commercial promotion. What attention they've garnered they've thoroughly earned.

Sure, some of the Lollapalooza and other '05 acts are "reunion tours" -- e.g. Sonic Youth, New Order, Gang of Four (which I would call welcome), Billy Idol (which I would not) -- but there are just as many who are just still making decent music, and there are enough new acts that it will still be the very first time many people are introduced to them. This idea that the festival is worthless because it isn't deliberately groundbreaking is inane -- there are other festivals that fill that role. It's a bit like constantly complaining that SNL isn't as good as the first two years, which is more annoying by far than sitting through a bad sketch.

For instance, earlier in July Pitchfork -- yes -- is curating the Intonation Music Festival, and they're going for a much different line-up, tone, and audience. Y'know what? I think Chicago is large enough for both of them. (Ironically, though, Lollapalooza seems to be doing more to feature Chicago-based acts, something I think is important to give a permanent festival a sense of place.)

What I think is even more interesting is that Chicago has started a Music Commission to promote the local music scene -- something like a Chamber of Commerce for the clubs and artists who have been feeling marginalized lately, pretty ironic for this city.
posted by dhartung at 9:57 PM on April 22, 2005


For the record: I hate the Killers because they sound like third-rate Interpol imitators

wouldn't that be fourth-rate joy division imitators?
posted by angry modem at 10:04 PM on April 22, 2005


angry modem writes " For the record: I hate the Killers because they sound like third-rate Interpol imitators

"wouldn't that be fourth-rate joy division imitators?
"posted by angry modem at 1:04 AM EST on April 23 [!]"


I was too polite to mention that. But yes.
posted by BoringPostcards at 10:07 PM on April 22, 2005


What's with the music bickering? I thought this was 2005 and we have this rich history of music to enjoy, new and old.

Oh well music sucks, I'll just stick to my noise CDs.
posted by melt away at 12:17 AM on April 23, 2005


What is Widespread Panic doing in there? Shouldn't they be on the HORDE tour or something?
posted by emelenjr at 12:54 AM on April 23, 2005


"My favorite band sucks, your favorite band sucks" sums up every single music thread I have ever seen on MetaFilter.
posted by fixedgear at 2:37 AM on April 23, 2005


BoringPostcards : "josh and 27 seem to have the same bond to music that I do... that quaint notion that it's all about what you like."

Count me in as well. Music isn't a fight.

"you come off a bit like the equal & opposite reaction to the pretentious hipster..."
Jonmc: "Someone has to be."
dhartung: "No, jonmc, nobody has to be an asshole."

Absolutely perfectly phrased.

Jonmc, you claim to hate cred and the like, so maybe you genuinely aren't aware of this, but you come off exactly like the hipster music snobs you profess to hate so much.


posted by Bugbread at 3:29 AM on April 23, 2005


Check out Josh's link to the Riskilde Festival in Denmark -- now that's a pretty interesting lineup! Much more adventurous programming than Lolapalooza, which seems far too fair-to-middling indie to be much fun.

Alter Ego, Devendra Banhart, Black Sabbath, Captain Comatose, Chic, Death From Above 1979, Digweed, Duran Duran, Isis, Kano, Konono No.1, Mylo, The Ravonettes, Craig Richards, Snoop Dogg, Sonic Youth, Tocotronic, Brian Wilson...

The Fuji Rock Festival in Niigata Japan doesn't hold much appeal for me this year, unfortunately, though you can't accuse them of being narrowminded. It's a nice location too.

No matter, this year I'm going to Sonar instead, which has an especially strong line up this year and is in ... Barcelona!
posted by dydecker at 5:58 AM on April 23, 2005


Digable Planets are back together? Well I'll be.
posted by tdominey at 6:06 AM on April 23, 2005


There are people who, for years, have been listening to bands you've only just discovered--here's Bell Rays and AF photos from 3 and 2 years ago.

I've been listening to the Bell Rays for nearly a decade. I don't want to get into a pissing contest over it, but the artists I listed wre as examples of artists that you don't hear talked about much, not examples of recent discoveries.


Well don't read them. That's what I do
.

I still like to read about music and find new stuff to listen to, and that's when I encounter all the gushing and hype.

defending the indefensible

Not liking the Arcade Fire (or any band for that matter) is indefensible?
posted by jonmc at 6:11 AM on April 23, 2005


"defending the indefensible"
jonmc : "Not liking the Arcade Fire (or any band for that matter) is indefensible?"

I suspect that that phrase relates to "saying band A is a cheap ripoff of band B, and, when being taken to task for it, saying that you don't like band B enough to listen to much of it, but that your comparison is nevertheless well grounded", not to "saying you don't like a band".

I listen to electronic music, so I'm pretty used to people saying "All of it sounds alike", "Anyone can make it", etc. And I'm also used to saying "No, it doesn't all sound alike. Listen to Shpongle or Infected Mushroom, and try to tell me with a straight face that it sounds anything like Moby or Oakenfold". Your position here is somewhat analogous to someone then responding, "I don't like electronic music enough to listen to a lot of it. But I know nevertheless that it sounds all alike." (Not identical to your argument, but close enough that it seems roughly analogous). And that I would qualify as "defending the indefensible".

The other thing I never understood, in art or in music, is the "it only matters who did it first" concept. Sure, Band B sounds like older Band A. But that doesn't in itself make it bad. World's End Girlfriend sounds like a mix between Godspeed Ye Black Emperor and Aphex Twin. That doesn't make it bad, it makes it good, as it has the emotionality of GYBE without the pretension, and the humour of Aphex Twin without, er, again, the pretension. The same holds true for a lot of other bands. Some sound like pale imitations, but some sound like improvements. Saying a band sounds like someone else is in itself neither praise nor criticism, it's description.
posted by Bugbread at 6:30 AM on April 23, 2005


Hi, my name is mischief. I am 43, and I like The Mars Volta.

/sits down
posted by mischief at 6:34 AM on April 23, 2005


*shouts from the back*

Mars Volta sucks!

/sits down
posted by graventy at 7:06 AM on April 23, 2005


Saying a band sounds like someone else is in itself neither praise nor criticism, it's description.

yeah, I really agree with this. I come across it all the time in literature/academic, as well; everyone's always trying to point out who's working off whom. Well, that's art; we're all living in the same world, drawing off the same source, and yes, we influence each other too. Sometimes music is directly influenced by other bands and sometimes they just come to a similar sound on their own. But it really isn't important. I listened to that Bell Rays track, and it is definitely not breaking any new territory - if you like that sort of sound, it's alright, but it would never have caught my attention.

Re: joy division/interpol/the killers, I can't disagree that interpol are reminiscent of joy division, but to me, they do a better job. I like the mood of joy division, but their music has never quite become central for me because it feels sort of scattered and loose in a way that doesn't quite work for me. Interpol are tight, and full; the guitars are strong, so there's an intensity that's not there in joy division - but they keep the mood, the dreamy, detached, almost isolated feeling.

The killers are fun, though I don't think they're anything special. I don't hate them, though, and even if they're trying to be interpol, they're hitting a different sound. The singer's not nearly as morose & dreamy to start with. They're rockin' out much more straightforwardly.
posted by mdn at 7:19 AM on April 23, 2005


Damn, I forgot again. I'm 46. ;-P
posted by mischief at 7:33 AM on April 23, 2005


I listened to that Bell Rays track, and it is definitely not breaking any new territory - if you like that sort of sound, it's alright, but it would never have caught my attention.

Well, it's a good track, but it's not their best. "Mind's Eye," "Street Corner," and "Stupid Fuckin' People," are far better examples of what they're about. And I'd argue that a band playing Stooges/MC5/Who style hard rock with a Carla Thomas/Aretha Franklin-style soul vocalist is actually a pretty original idea, and it's well executed.

On review: listen to me, I sound like the Arcade Fire defenders, but look at this way, mdn, if you weren't impressed by the track dobbs offerred, you probably aren't going to investigate much further and you're probably quite happy with your opinion of them as uninteresting. Which is fine. But I bet you don't hear the Bell rays name being yelled from the rooftops constantly is my ultimate point. You do with Radiohead, Arcade Fire, Interpol, et al.
posted by jonmc at 7:42 AM on April 23, 2005


Now, are the Mars Volta any good or not? Coz everything I heard said about Coheed and Cambria I've heard about MV and C&C suck!
posted by sonofsamiam at 7:53 AM on April 23, 2005


You make me wish there was a way of picking who we're matched with on the Mefi Swaps. I'd love to hear what you would put together.

Nothing stopping you from just asking jonmc to make you a mix, y'know.
posted by kenko at 8:07 AM on April 23, 2005


re: Mars Volta. I heard about half of the new album. I liked it. They reminded me of Radiohead with a punk attitude and a fantastic drummer.
posted by mischief at 8:12 AM on April 23, 2005


Many people cite a strong Zep influence in TMV.
posted by kenko at 8:21 AM on April 23, 2005


Man, there's nothing like a MeFi music thread to make me feel completely ignorant about music incredibly indie and non-mainstream.

Within this thread alone, I've heard 2 or fewer songs by:
Radiohead, The Pixies, Dinosaur, Jr.

I've heard OF, but to my knowledge, never heard a song BY:
ELO, Roxy Music, Soul Asylum, The Replacements, Coldplay, Gang of Four, Stooges, MC5, Paul Westerburg

And I have never even HEARD of:
The Arcade Fire, Interpol, Mars Volta, Brian Jonestown Massacre, The Walkmen, Tegan and Sarah, The Del Rubio Triplets, The Killers, Association, M83, Cake, Coachella, Dug Don & Dewey, Leaf Hound, the Bell Rays, Eddie Hinton, Eddie Hazel, Joe Bataan, Darkness, Widespread Panic, Alter Ego, Devendra Banhart, Captain Comatose, Chic, Death From Above 1979, Isis, Kano, Konono No.1, Mylo, The Ravonettes, Craig Richards, Tocotronic, Carla Thomas, Coheed, Cambria
posted by Bugbread at 8:36 AM on April 23, 2005


Dug Don & Dewey

It's "Don & Dewey," "Dug" was used as a verb.
posted by jonmc at 8:38 AM on April 23, 2005


Well, it's a good track, but it's not their best.

No, it's not. And it's "different" for them. However, it's unreleased and you said you liked them so I offered it up. They were kind enough to share it with me so I'm happy to spread it as well as I can.

mdn, if you weren't impressed by the track dobbs offerred, you probably aren't going to investigate much further and you're probably quite happy with your opinion of them as uninteresting.

jon, isn't this exactly what you've done with the Arcade Fire? You heard them sing a song on tv and wrote them off. Of course, it's fine that you did that, but surely you can see how anyone waxing on about how they know what the Bell Rays are about after hearing that track wouldn't be that informed.

but the artists I listed wre as examples of artists that you don't hear talked about much

I guess that depends on what you're paying attention to. Bell Rays have no difficulty selling out shows in my town. Since I don't read the hipster rags, though, I have no idea if they're being written about. Plus, if they were being talked about as much as Interpol or whoever... you would write them off. :)

Nothing stopping you from just asking jonmc to make you a mix, y'know.

But then I'd feel like a burden. Heh. But you're right, kenko. Jon, if you send me a mix I'll send you the batch I made for the last mefi swap. Art/playlist here (big pdf).
posted by dobbs at 10:11 AM on April 23, 2005


I'm just glad to hear that the Digable Planets are back. One of the most underrated hip hop groups ever!

/the fascists are some heavy dudes
posted by stinkycheese at 10:38 AM on April 23, 2005


And jonmc, if we officially dub you King Of All Musical Taste Forever & Forever, would that convince you to drop the rather tiresome* practise of coming on music threads to basically just tell everyone else they're dumb. It's really getting old.

*I'm surprised you're not bored of it by now, frankly
posted by stinkycheese at 10:46 AM on April 23, 2005


jon, isn't this exactly what you've done with the Arcade Fire?

yeah, I kind of admitted as much in second paragraph. It's probably just because I hear about the other bands so much more that they get my goat.

And jonmc, if we officially dub you King Of All Musical Taste Forever & Forever...

Depends on what kind of throne I get.
posted by jonmc at 12:02 PM on April 23, 2005



posted by Evstar at 12:20 PM on April 23, 2005


^I was thinking something like this.^
posted by Evstar at 12:21 PM on April 23, 2005


This is why copyright infringement is fine and dandy. I like the Arcade Fire album OK, but I would have felt annoyed if I had dished out cash for it. (I like TV on the Radio more, and they do similar things).
Now that the thread is totally unredeemable, I'm amazed that bands like Interpol or The Killers inspire this level of passion. I mean, even bands that I think are all right, like Broken Social Scene and the Arcade Fire aren't really ever gonna get me into a fight defending them. Oh, and the Walkmen? Saw them live, they fucking blow.
Don't people get sick of mid-tempo rock? I mean, I keep thinking of my uncle, who renounced rock for jazz in the late '70s, calling the rhythm of rock "dsh-mm, msh-mm." If everything is in a staid 4-4 time, how can you tell them apart?
It's funny that everyone here is gettin' all on the "man, music taste is, like, subjective man. If you don't like it, it's on you..." Yet, given a chance, wait for the bombs to drop on Linkin Park. Even the more circumspect can say, "Well, it's not as complex. It's not as interesting. It's not as sophisticated..." ...as the bands I like...
And you know what? It's not. The Strokes are boring. The Kills are boring. The Walkmen are boring. Jet's AC/DC with better hair. And these bands are marketted by people who don't have the ears to tell that they're boring, grey and pasty music. They're all over-compressed, over-produced fuckin' indie-cum-yuppie bullshit.
As far as the over-hype, critics are paid to have musical ADD. Everything is the greatest ever right now. Think about how many goddamn times rock has been saved, especially by the NME. Fuck, they even thought romo was gonna save rock. So yeah, I can see getting fed up with that and deciding that all the hyped hipster bands are bullshit. Kinda like that moment when you decide that because everything the DEA has told you about pot has been wrong, acid's probably not that bad either.
Sometimes, this leads to finding amazing albums by people like Lightning Bolt or 25 Suaves, sometimes it leads to getting into obscure Cambodian swamp music that, with an honest ear, sounds more like Rogers and Hammerstein run through Kareoke presets.
(Oh, and Jon, the Eddie Hazel album I have is some of the most wanky guitar I've ever heard. My father burned it for me, and it just doesn't do a damn thing for me. I'd rather listen to Funkadelic when he was with them.)
posted by klangklangston at 12:23 PM on April 23, 2005


raaaaaaaaar I hate all new music rar rar rar rockism raaarr nothing is as good as the bands I like raaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr

this thread blows.
posted by scarymonsterrrr at 2:10 PM on April 23, 2005


I like the Killers and Jet. I don't like the Strokes.

I like both Liz Phair AND Avril Lavigne, though granted Avril completely rips off Liz.

I also like Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music, and I don't like Captain Beefheart.

So sue me. ;-P
posted by mischief at 2:11 PM on April 23, 2005


klangklangston : " It's funny that everyone here is gettin' all on the "man, music taste is, like, subjective man. If you don't like it, it's on you..." Yet, given a chance, wait for the bombs to drop on Linkin Park."

Linkin Park isn't my cup of tea, but they're not bad.
I hate Avril Lavigne (though I think she's hot), but she's not bad.

There's a ton of music out there that I hate...But there isn't a ton of music out there that I think is bad. In fact, off hand I can't think of any music I think is bad.
posted by Bugbread at 3:10 PM on April 23, 2005


Two Band Once Favored By The Indie Spotlight, But Who You Don't Hear Much About Anymore, But Are Still Just Absolutely Great, Though One Of Them Just Broke Up:

1. White Stripes

2. Luna
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 3:23 PM on April 23, 2005


>"A quick course in how to demolish the musical taste of others" by jonmc the Brunching Shuttlecocks.
posted by dydecker at 3:29 PM on April 23, 2005


What, no one's going to call me an idiot?
posted by _sirmissalot_ at 3:53 PM on April 23, 2005


_sirmissalot_, in MeFi music threads, the protocol is that only jonmc calls various different users idiots, and then other users call only jonmc an idiot. Anyone other than jonmc calling you an idiot is against protocol. That would be like playing the first two innings of the World Series and then having some celebrity come out and throw the opening ball, or having the marching band play the actual game in the Superbowl and then having the athletes play the marching band music.

Or like wearing a shirt around your crotch and pants on your head.
posted by Bugbread at 4:00 PM on April 23, 2005


I'm being unfair to jonmc.

The protocol is not for anyone to call anyone else an idiot for their musical tastes.
Jonmc's role is to say the bands you like suck (but not call you an idiot), and for other people to call jonmc an idiot for the way he phrases his criticisms.

So no matter how you slice it, you don't get to be called an idiot.
posted by Bugbread at 4:17 PM on April 23, 2005


I would love to look to Mefi as a source for learning about new music and discussing existing bands that I already know and like, but instead, every music thread becomes a forum for johnmc's tiresome complaints about what everybody else listens to and that just fucking sucks.

johnmc, I really wish you'd quit doing that.
posted by jennyb at 4:26 PM on April 23, 2005


An old teacher/mentor once told me that art world success is directly proportional to the obscurity of your references. He was referring to the visual arts, but it probably applies to music as well. We're all building off someone/something.

Can't say I'm too excited about most of the lollapalooza lineup, but I do think that Sound Tribe Sector 9 are the bees knees.
posted by TheRoach at 9:18 PM on April 23, 2005


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