Yes, YOU can run a corrupt govt. agency and NEVER pay taxes!
July 27, 2005 7:45 PM Subscribe
"I... Forgot."
Upon the death of a possible BSE cow, "the unidentified doctor preserved the brain stem sample in formalin... but then 'simply forgot' about it until mid-July." That's the reason why we're only hearing about it now. Any questions?
Upon the death of a possible BSE cow, "the unidentified doctor preserved the brain stem sample in formalin... but then 'simply forgot' about it until mid-July." That's the reason why we're only hearing about it now. Any questions?
When the government can't manage to "remember" its own safety processes in the face of intense lobbying efforts from meat packing industries, the solution is simple: Don't Eat Meat. There are many other tasty, cheaper ways to get protein.
posted by Rothko at 8:15 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by Rothko at 8:15 PM on July 27, 2005
Well, yeah. Maybe he fried up the brain in butter after preserving the brainstem, and .... forgot.
posted by hank at 8:20 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by hank at 8:20 PM on July 27, 2005
There are many other tasty, cheaper ways to get protein.
2/3 ain't bad...
posted by Dark Messiah at 8:29 PM on July 27, 2005
2/3 ain't bad...
posted by Dark Messiah at 8:29 PM on July 27, 2005
Bugmenot:
calendar@yahoo.com
dateme
I'm not surprised.
posted by Pseudonumb at 8:30 PM on July 27, 2005
calendar@yahoo.com
dateme
I'm not surprised.
posted by Pseudonumb at 8:30 PM on July 27, 2005
Any chance Canada will now ban US beef imports? Didn't think so.
posted by tighttrousers at 8:36 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by tighttrousers at 8:36 PM on July 27, 2005
Ah yes.
"Two simple words in the English language." - Stephen Glenn Martin
posted by walkathon at 8:47 PM on July 27, 2005
"Two simple words in the English language." - Stephen Glenn Martin
posted by walkathon at 8:47 PM on July 27, 2005
This bears lengthy rumenation.
posted by troutfishing at 8:52 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by troutfishing at 8:52 PM on July 27, 2005
What I want to know is whether this shadowy veterinarian is the same guy as the shadowy journalist who told Karl Rove about Plame.
posted by soyjoy at 8:53 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by soyjoy at 8:53 PM on July 27, 2005
...damn terrorists...scary stuff...messing with my burger...
posted by alteredcarbon at 9:37 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by alteredcarbon at 9:37 PM on July 27, 2005
/me puts some turkey burgers on the grill and sighs heavily.
posted by ilsa at 10:12 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by ilsa at 10:12 PM on July 27, 2005
In Alberta, Canada. Our illustrious premier (governor) Ralph Klein has given us the following advice when discovering a BSE cow: Shoot, Shovel, and Shut up.
posted by Kilovolt at 10:23 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by Kilovolt at 10:23 PM on July 27, 2005
Don't prions have a heat threshold, after which they break down ?
It seems a terrible waste, all those dead cows and all that delicious tainted beef....
Couldn't we just have a mad cow barbecue party ?
posted by troutfishing at 10:27 PM on July 27, 2005
It seems a terrible waste, all those dead cows and all that delicious tainted beef....
Couldn't we just have a mad cow barbecue party ?
posted by troutfishing at 10:27 PM on July 27, 2005
Not that I eat meat or nuthin'.
Just posing a hypothetical question.
posted by troutfishing at 10:28 PM on July 27, 2005
Just posing a hypothetical question.
posted by troutfishing at 10:28 PM on July 27, 2005
I bet if we soak all that tainted beef in tequila and lots of lime juice and then grilled it, it would probably be fine.
Here, you have the first bite.
posted by fenriq at 10:51 PM on July 27, 2005
Here, you have the first bite.
posted by fenriq at 10:51 PM on July 27, 2005
Doomsday Scenario #23: Terrorists poison the national beef supply
posted by bingbangbong at 10:59 PM on July 27, 2005
posted by bingbangbong at 10:59 PM on July 27, 2005
There are many other tasty, cheaper ways to get protein.
Like what? Most vegetarians I know say that it's more expensive and extremely time-consuming trying to get enough of the right kinds of nutrients to compensate for a lack of meat in their diet.
posted by nightchrome at 12:03 AM on July 28, 2005
Like what? Most vegetarians I know say that it's more expensive and extremely time-consuming trying to get enough of the right kinds of nutrients to compensate for a lack of meat in their diet.
posted by nightchrome at 12:03 AM on July 28, 2005
When the government can't manage to "remember" its own safety processes in the face of intense lobbying efforts from meat packing industries, the solution is simple: Don't Eat Meat. There are many other tasty, cheaper ways to get protein.
Of course there are the same pressures with water and other foods. Kill yourself now. There is no hope!
Or you could pressure your politicians to clean up there acts...
posted by srboisvert at 12:47 AM on July 28, 2005
Of course there are the same pressures with water and other foods. Kill yourself now. There is no hope!
Or you could pressure your politicians to clean up there acts...
posted by srboisvert at 12:47 AM on July 28, 2005
Or their spelling!
posted by srboisvert at 2:06 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by srboisvert at 2:06 AM on July 28, 2005
Beef: The Other Fugu
Unrelated but doubt this will derail: Was talking to a fellow who sold engines manufactured by GE. They're massive, roughly the size of 727s and are actually big meat grinders. Their horsepower (!) is rated at "X number of cows per minute"
posted by hal9k at 2:23 AM on July 28, 2005
Unrelated but doubt this will derail: Was talking to a fellow who sold engines manufactured by GE. They're massive, roughly the size of 727s and are actually big meat grinders. Their horsepower (!) is rated at "X number of cows per minute"
posted by hal9k at 2:23 AM on July 28, 2005
Like what? Most vegetarians I know say that it's more expensive and extremely time-consuming trying to get enough of the right kinds of nutrients to compensate for a lack of meat in their diet.
Tofu? Tempeh? How time-consuming is it to go to the grocers? And I know for a fact that beef costs more, unless I were to buy roadkill-grade stuff.
posted by Rothko at 4:19 AM on July 28, 2005
Tofu? Tempeh? How time-consuming is it to go to the grocers? And I know for a fact that beef costs more, unless I were to buy roadkill-grade stuff.
posted by Rothko at 4:19 AM on July 28, 2005
Don't prions have a heat threshold, after which they break down ?
Yes, but if you're trying to reach that threshold by cooking the meat, I hope you like having a mouth full of ash :-)
One of the problems is that the BSE proteins are more stable than the normal ones. The normal proteins break down before the dangerous ones. :-/
posted by -harlequin- at 4:25 AM on July 28, 2005
Yes, but if you're trying to reach that threshold by cooking the meat, I hope you like having a mouth full of ash :-)
One of the problems is that the BSE proteins are more stable than the normal ones. The normal proteins break down before the dangerous ones. :-/
posted by -harlequin- at 4:25 AM on July 28, 2005
Most vegetarians I know say that it's more expensive and extremely time-consuming trying to get enough of the right kinds of nutrients to compensate for a lack of meat in their diet.
The difficulty rises depending on the person too. If you're a highly active/athletic still-growing young woman, it's almost (if not actually) impossible to get full nutrition without meat. Which doesn't mean such a person won't live happily without meat, since many problems of borderline nutrition are subtle, or later rectified, or don't become apparent until later in life. Of course, not bothering to eat your veggies because you're getting heaps of energy from meat (which is my nutitional problem) also has long-term consequences, some of them quite nasty :-(
Man should be able to live on bread alone, damnit.
Or milk. Or honey. Or apples. "OR" being the operative word, none of this "AND" stuff, not this nutritious diet crap that involves buying more than one foodstuff. That works if you're a hunter-gather and have to eat whatever you can find, but I just go to the supermarket and can have as much of anything as I want :-/
Why isnt life simple?
posted by -harlequin- at 4:38 AM on July 28, 2005
The difficulty rises depending on the person too. If you're a highly active/athletic still-growing young woman, it's almost (if not actually) impossible to get full nutrition without meat. Which doesn't mean such a person won't live happily without meat, since many problems of borderline nutrition are subtle, or later rectified, or don't become apparent until later in life. Of course, not bothering to eat your veggies because you're getting heaps of energy from meat (which is my nutitional problem) also has long-term consequences, some of them quite nasty :-(
Man should be able to live on bread alone, damnit.
Or milk. Or honey. Or apples. "OR" being the operative word, none of this "AND" stuff, not this nutritious diet crap that involves buying more than one foodstuff. That works if you're a hunter-gather and have to eat whatever you can find, but I just go to the supermarket and can have as much of anything as I want :-/
Why isnt life simple?
posted by -harlequin- at 4:38 AM on July 28, 2005
nightcrome, not sure who your friends are, but a can of beans and some brown rice, or a tempeh salad, etc. etc. result in neither a troubling use of my time or expenses. Tofu is dirt cheap at our Oriental grocery, and cooks in a fraction of the time it would take to cook a roast or whatnot, I think. I don't remember meat anymore, and couldn't be happier.
posted by tr33hggr at 4:41 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by tr33hggr at 4:41 AM on July 28, 2005
-harlequin-, I'm highly active - I run, lift weights, workout 5-6 days a week, and have no problems. Then again, I am not a female. But, just sayin'.
posted by tr33hggr at 4:43 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by tr33hggr at 4:43 AM on July 28, 2005
But this post isn't about vegetarianism, so sorry to derail. It's gonna go there anyway, I imagine. :)
posted by tr33hggr at 4:54 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by tr33hggr at 4:54 AM on July 28, 2005
Yeah, this isn't about going vegetarian. For one thing, the threat of BSE affects everybody - 100 blood donors in Europe were just informed they may have vCJD, after three of the recipients of their blood died of it. And more importantly, even if Americans are not paying attention to the monumental screwups (which are more likely cover-ups, but let's be charitable) occurring around each U.S. Mad Cow that's announced, our trading partners certainly are. "Can the USDA be trusted to tell the truth about Mad Cow here?" is a four billion-dollar question (at least).
Then again, anyone who says it's near-impossible to get adequate protein or eat nutritiously as a vegetarian is either trolling or comically misinformed.
posted by soyjoy at 6:10 AM on July 28, 2005
Then again, anyone who says it's near-impossible to get adequate protein or eat nutritiously as a vegetarian is either trolling or comically misinformed.
posted by soyjoy at 6:10 AM on July 28, 2005
Ostrich! Its the OTHER red meat!
(seriously recommended)
posted by Goofyy at 6:19 AM on July 28, 2005
(seriously recommended)
posted by Goofyy at 6:19 AM on July 28, 2005
walkathon: Right on! I was hoping it was a Steve related FPP when I saw that.
posted by piratebowling at 7:29 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by piratebowling at 7:29 AM on July 28, 2005
I'd give this "forgetting" a pass except for the fact that the USDA folks are denying private companies the permission to test for BSE of each and every cow they process in order to open up foreign markets. I mean, more testing is better, correct? Unless you have something to hide. Very Dick Cheneyistic.
posted by nofundy at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by nofundy at 7:35 AM on July 28, 2005
no need to turn all veggie overnight; simply deminishing would suffy?
I dropped eating meat 3/4 times a week; one time for eggs, one for cheese and one for tofu/tempeh etc. I didn't eat much pork anyway (am quite convinced eating a lot of pork while not needing the fat, turns you into one physically)
I guess since the industry is not taking precausions against viral-immunisation etc, we need to do it ourselves
posted by borq at 7:54 AM on July 28, 2005
I dropped eating meat 3/4 times a week; one time for eggs, one for cheese and one for tofu/tempeh etc. I didn't eat much pork anyway (am quite convinced eating a lot of pork while not needing the fat, turns you into one physically)
I guess since the industry is not taking precausions against viral-immunisation etc, we need to do it ourselves
posted by borq at 7:54 AM on July 28, 2005
Most vegetarians I know say that it's more expensive and extremely time-consuming trying to get enough of the right kinds of nutrients to compensate for a lack of meat in their diet.
Try beans (I like pinto and black, but there are dozens) and grains (wheat protein, as seitan, is fabulous.) I'm not a big fan of tofu, it's way too soft and difficult to cook, but TVP is another good, cheap, easy protein source. Chunks are good for a stir-fry and granules are good in soups or as a protein base for something like chicken salad. I like seitan better, but TVP is way cheaper. (The Chunks link is 11 servings of 15g protein for $2.06.)
If you're a highly active/athletic still-growing young woman, it's almost (if not actually) impossible to get full nutrition without meat.
That can't be true - what do they do in India? (Seriously, I looked for links but couldn't find much - aren't there many life-long vegetarians in India?)
posted by drstupid at 7:58 AM on July 28, 2005
Try beans (I like pinto and black, but there are dozens) and grains (wheat protein, as seitan, is fabulous.) I'm not a big fan of tofu, it's way too soft and difficult to cook, but TVP is another good, cheap, easy protein source. Chunks are good for a stir-fry and granules are good in soups or as a protein base for something like chicken salad. I like seitan better, but TVP is way cheaper. (The Chunks link is 11 servings of 15g protein for $2.06.)
If you're a highly active/athletic still-growing young woman, it's almost (if not actually) impossible to get full nutrition without meat.
That can't be true - what do they do in India? (Seriously, I looked for links but couldn't find much - aren't there many life-long vegetarians in India?)
posted by drstupid at 7:58 AM on July 28, 2005
And the thing is, if we just stopped feeding cows the ground up remains of their brethren, this would no longer be an issue.
posted by bshort at 8:00 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by bshort at 8:00 AM on July 28, 2005
Yes, but if you're trying to reach that threshold by cooking the meat, I hope you like having a mouth full of ash :-)
Some research indicates that prions can survive at temperatures as high as 1500 centigrade. They are also essentially unfazed by ionizing radiation, acids, and harsh language.
posted by norm at 9:16 AM on July 28, 2005
Some research indicates that prions can survive at temperatures as high as 1500 centigrade. They are also essentially unfazed by ionizing radiation, acids, and harsh language.
posted by norm at 9:16 AM on July 28, 2005
Any chance Canada will now ban US beef imports? Didn't think so. - tighttrousers
That was exactly my thought. The stuff I'm hearing from down there does have me a little worried. Not in particular that they've found cases of BSE, but that there's been so many screw ups around the discoveries. How much are they missing? Why would they bar private companies from testing more cattle if the companies want to do it?
And the thing is, if we just stopped feeding cows the ground up remains of their brethren, this would no longer be an issue. - bshort
In Canada, at least, they did. Eight years ago, if memory serves. The cases they've found are in cattle that were old enough to be eating feed created before the bans.
posted by raedyn at 9:24 AM on July 28, 2005
That was exactly my thought. The stuff I'm hearing from down there does have me a little worried. Not in particular that they've found cases of BSE, but that there's been so many screw ups around the discoveries. How much are they missing? Why would they bar private companies from testing more cattle if the companies want to do it?
And the thing is, if we just stopped feeding cows the ground up remains of their brethren, this would no longer be an issue. - bshort
In Canada, at least, they did. Eight years ago, if memory serves. The cases they've found are in cattle that were old enough to be eating feed created before the bans.
posted by raedyn at 9:24 AM on July 28, 2005
Meat: It's what eats you.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:26 AM on July 28, 2005
posted by five fresh fish at 9:26 AM on July 28, 2005
And the thing is, if we just stopped feeding cows the ground up remains of their brethren, this would no longer be an issue. - bshort
We do. We just feed it to chickens and pigs now. And we feed ground up chickens and pigs to cows. It's just one step removed. Of course, as we've seen with CJD, it can cross species barriers, so that doesn't seem to matter so much.
If you're a highly active/athletic still-growing young woman, it's almost (if not actually) impossible to get full nutrition without meat.
Wikipedia has a great entry with many references showing that you can get all of your dietary needs from a vegetarian diet without too much work. It's the vegans and others that have problems.
posted by Moral Animal at 11:21 AM on July 28, 2005
We do. We just feed it to chickens and pigs now. And we feed ground up chickens and pigs to cows. It's just one step removed. Of course, as we've seen with CJD, it can cross species barriers, so that doesn't seem to matter so much.
If you're a highly active/athletic still-growing young woman, it's almost (if not actually) impossible to get full nutrition without meat.
Wikipedia has a great entry with many references showing that you can get all of your dietary needs from a vegetarian diet without too much work. It's the vegans and others that have problems.
posted by Moral Animal at 11:21 AM on July 28, 2005
Slight edit:
It's the vegans and others that haveproblems. to be sure they have a source of B12. (Not much of a problem in the West.)
Also, just for clarity, we haven't actually even stopped feeding cows directly to cows: Along with the indirect routes mentioned above, there are additional loopholes in the feed ban as written, and there are also serious questions about the degree of compliance with the ban among U.S. livestock producers.
posted by soyjoy at 11:57 AM on July 28, 2005
It's the vegans and others that have
Also, just for clarity, we haven't actually even stopped feeding cows directly to cows: Along with the indirect routes mentioned above, there are additional loopholes in the feed ban as written, and there are also serious questions about the degree of compliance with the ban among U.S. livestock producers.
posted by soyjoy at 11:57 AM on July 28, 2005
Some of the most passionate advocates for vegetarianism have easy-to-identify positions from their usernames: soyjoy, tr33hggr, and Moral Animal. I'm just wondering, from the context of the threadjack that happened, how friendly we'd be to a "JESUSSAVES" turning a post about some kind of religious issue into an attempt to proselytize.
Please consider this a gentle observation and not a flame.
posted by norm at 1:41 PM on July 28, 2005
Please consider this a gentle observation and not a flame.
posted by norm at 1:41 PM on July 28, 2005
Gentle maybe, norm, but off-base - if the thread was indeed jacked, the threadjacker was "Rothko."
posted by soyjoy at 2:18 PM on July 28, 2005
posted by soyjoy at 2:18 PM on July 28, 2005
tofu: "it's way too soft and difficult to cook"
marinade in lemon juice and fish oil/ soy sauce..
damn i'm turning this into foodfilter
posted by borq at 2:29 PM on July 28, 2005
marinade in lemon juice and fish oil/ soy sauce..
damn i'm turning this into foodfilter
posted by borq at 2:29 PM on July 28, 2005
I'll take it norm, no sweat. I've come under fire here in the blue before for my views on non-human animals, and after making an ass of myself more than once I hope I've learned my lesson. Nonetheless, I will step in to correct what I see as simple misstatements, such as vegetarianism being costly, difficult, or somewhat unhealthy.
Fair enough.
posted by tr33hggr at 4:14 PM on July 28, 2005
Fair enough.
posted by tr33hggr at 4:14 PM on July 28, 2005
And, I would hope what I'm doing isn't mistaken for proselytizing.
posted by tr33hggr at 4:15 PM on July 28, 2005
posted by tr33hggr at 4:15 PM on July 28, 2005
Most vegetarians I know say that it's more expensive and extremely time-consuming trying to get enough of the right kinds of nutrients to compensate for a lack of meat in their diet.
Absolute bullshit. It's cheaper and easier to skip meat.
Broccoli - 6 grams of protein a cup
Kidney Beans - 6 grams of protein in half a can (applies to most beans)
Soy Milk - 9 grams of protein a cup
Baked potato - 7.5 grams of protein (with skin)
Lentils - 8.8 grams per serving
I'm not bothering to look through the grains. Do it yourself.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:45 PM on July 28, 2005
Absolute bullshit. It's cheaper and easier to skip meat.
Broccoli - 6 grams of protein a cup
Kidney Beans - 6 grams of protein in half a can (applies to most beans)
Soy Milk - 9 grams of protein a cup
Baked potato - 7.5 grams of protein (with skin)
Lentils - 8.8 grams per serving
I'm not bothering to look through the grains. Do it yourself.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:45 PM on July 28, 2005
Or the nuts ... soyjoy's right on about B12. Seaweed is a possibility, but nothing yet.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:49 PM on July 28, 2005
posted by mrgrimm at 4:49 PM on July 28, 2005
Sorry. One more. (Before live preview, this would have been one post.)
According to the American Dietetic Association report in 1981, vegan men were consuming 150% more than the daily requirement (of protein); vegan women 139% more; lacto-ovo-vegetarian men 175% and women 186% more. Non-vegetarian men were consuming a whopping 223% more than the daily recommended protein requirement, while the women were consuming 214%. Protein consumption has been increasing ever since, along with the rise in obesity, osteoporosis, and heart disease -- just to name a few.
Protein is overrated.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:53 PM on July 28, 2005
According to the American Dietetic Association report in 1981, vegan men were consuming 150% more than the daily requirement (of protein); vegan women 139% more; lacto-ovo-vegetarian men 175% and women 186% more. Non-vegetarian men were consuming a whopping 223% more than the daily recommended protein requirement, while the women were consuming 214%. Protein consumption has been increasing ever since, along with the rise in obesity, osteoporosis, and heart disease -- just to name a few.
Protein is overrated.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:53 PM on July 28, 2005
There's a reason my comment said "nutrients" and not "protein". I was under the impression there were other vital things that were difficult to get outside of meat, but as I'm no expert I'm hard-pressed to explain what.
posted by nightchrome at 6:10 PM on July 28, 2005
posted by nightchrome at 6:10 PM on July 28, 2005
nightchrome:
Yup, protein is easy. Full nutrition is more difficult.
posted by -harlequin- at 8:46 PM on July 29, 2005
Yup, protein is easy. Full nutrition is more difficult.
posted by -harlequin- at 8:46 PM on July 29, 2005
By "full nutrition" do you mean B12?
If so, it's easy to take either in supplements or in fortified soy- rice- almond- etc. milks, breakfast cereals and so forth.
If not, I'm wondering what you're finding lacking nutritionally. Plant foods generally contain a greater number of nutrients than animal foods, so getting full nutrition from a diverse plant-based diet would seem to be a bit easier than from the standard American diet, which as we know is deficient in many important nutrients (including, I should mention, B12).
posted by soyjoy at 9:02 PM on July 31, 2005
If so, it's easy to take either in supplements or in fortified soy- rice- almond- etc. milks, breakfast cereals and so forth.
If not, I'm wondering what you're finding lacking nutritionally. Plant foods generally contain a greater number of nutrients than animal foods, so getting full nutrition from a diverse plant-based diet would seem to be a bit easier than from the standard American diet, which as we know is deficient in many important nutrients (including, I should mention, B12).
posted by soyjoy at 9:02 PM on July 31, 2005
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posted by CynicalKnight at 8:14 PM on July 27, 2005