Frist Insider Trades?
September 23, 2005 7:32 AM Subscribe
Boesky, Waksal, . . . Frist?
There have been articles as of late questioning the timing of Sen. Bill Frist's sale of his entire portfolio of HCA stock (a Frist family company) at a peak stock price just prior to a release of bad earnings news. He is now under investigation. Will Frist go the way of Ivan and Sam or even Martha?
Amazingly enough (though by now quite routine), Republicans will spin this to make the Democrats look bad, ie, "First they were complaining because he had the stock in the first place - now they're complaining because he got rid of it!" Frist won't suffer any consequences.
posted by billysumday at 7:41 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by billysumday at 7:41 AM on September 23, 2005
Amazingly enough (though by now quite routine), Republicans will spin this to make the Democrats look bad, ie, "First they were complaining because he had the stock in the first place - now they're complaining because he got rid of it!" Frist won't suffer any consequences.
posted by billysumday at 7:43 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by billysumday at 7:43 AM on September 23, 2005
You should just grab the RSS feed from Talking Points Memo and then you could've included an updated link that "federal prosecutors have issued a subpoena for documents the company believes may be related to the sale of its stock by Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist," relevant to this NewsFilter post of yours.
In case you missed the scorn, I'll be explicit in saying that this post is garbage. There's absolutely nothing "best of the web" about this except, perhaps, as a counter example.
posted by jperkins at 7:45 AM on September 23, 2005
In case you missed the scorn, I'll be explicit in saying that this post is garbage. There's absolutely nothing "best of the web" about this except, perhaps, as a counter example.
posted by jperkins at 7:45 AM on September 23, 2005
jperkins: So is your comment. If a post dosn't intrest you, just flag it.
posted by delmoi at 7:48 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by delmoi at 7:48 AM on September 23, 2005
There's absolutely nothing "best of the web" about this except, perhaps, as a counter example.
Yet, Guantanamo articles and ipod giveaways are real finds. Just flag and move on please.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:52 AM on September 23, 2005
Yet, Guantanamo articles and ipod giveaways are real finds. Just flag and move on please.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:52 AM on September 23, 2005
Well, was it really in a blind trust? If so, could he really get in hot water over something he didn't even know about?
I don't know much about investment, so please be gentle.
posted by selfnoise at 7:53 AM on September 23, 2005
I don't know much about investment, so please be gentle.
posted by selfnoise at 7:53 AM on September 23, 2005
From what I've read, it is easy to know a rough idea of your holdings in a blind trust by deconstructing tax records.
posted by machaus at 7:57 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by machaus at 7:57 AM on September 23, 2005
Its not a blind trust if he a) knows the holdings and b) can issue buy and sell orders. To me this is the worst part about it - he is clearly using the legal barries to say publicly he has no conflicts when he is knowingly not following the intent of the same rules.
posted by H. Roark at 7:57 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by H. Roark at 7:57 AM on September 23, 2005
Well, was it really in a blind trust? If so, could he really get in hot water over something he didn't even know about?
Check this post and this post from TPM.
jperkins: So is your comment. If a post dosn't intrest you, just flag it.
My comment had the merit of at least expanding on the original post. Ahem.
posted by jperkins at 7:59 AM on September 23, 2005
Check this post and this post from TPM.
jperkins: So is your comment. If a post dosn't intrest you, just flag it.
My comment had the merit of at least expanding on the original post. Ahem.
posted by jperkins at 7:59 AM on September 23, 2005
selfnoise,
He's in hot water because the trust might not have been so blind.
posted by mr.curmudgeon at 7:59 AM on September 23, 2005
He's in hot water because the trust might not have been so blind.
posted by mr.curmudgeon at 7:59 AM on September 23, 2005
I don't know about Best of the Web but this is certainly interesting enough to post to the Blue. Frist seems to have gone out of his way to wait until the cameras were on him before he stuck his foot in his mouth on the Schiavo debacle and he seems to be trying to elevate his public profile.
I hope this is investigated and that, if he's found guilty of insider trading or whatever financial impropriety, that he is punished for it.
He won't be, of course, but its nice to think that justice might be applied to the same people who are supposed to be representing their constituents. Frist, DeLay and others are guilty of rampant Above-the-Law-isness. It would be helpful and educational to nail one to the wall every so often, just to show that it can be done.
And Frist for President? Yeah, please give that one a go, GOP.
posted by fenriq at 8:00 AM on September 23, 2005
I hope this is investigated and that, if he's found guilty of insider trading or whatever financial impropriety, that he is punished for it.
He won't be, of course, but its nice to think that justice might be applied to the same people who are supposed to be representing their constituents. Frist, DeLay and others are guilty of rampant Above-the-Law-isness. It would be helpful and educational to nail one to the wall every so often, just to show that it can be done.
And Frist for President? Yeah, please give that one a go, GOP.
posted by fenriq at 8:00 AM on September 23, 2005
Here is the important sentence in the article selfnoise:
The senator's blind trust turns out to allow for a little peek-a-boo, and Mr. Frist instructed the trustees in June to get rid of the stock.
The brother of the corporation's owner, Senator or not, cannot dump stock like that without raising eyebrows. The fact that it had such convenient timing is simply too suspicious to walk away from.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:02 AM on September 23, 2005
The senator's blind trust turns out to allow for a little peek-a-boo, and Mr. Frist instructed the trustees in June to get rid of the stock.
The brother of the corporation's owner, Senator or not, cannot dump stock like that without raising eyebrows. The fact that it had such convenient timing is simply too suspicious to walk away from.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:02 AM on September 23, 2005
Frist Insider Trading + Abramoff-Rove connection + PlameGate + FEMA Cronism + Ohio Coingate/Bouy Toy Scandal = GOP 2006/2008
If this equation ends up being false, I'm leaving the United States.
posted by mr.curmudgeon at 8:15 AM on September 23, 2005
If this equation ends up being false, I'm leaving the United States.
posted by mr.curmudgeon at 8:15 AM on September 23, 2005
Regulators anywhere are a lot more suspicious about selling just before a decrease in price than they are about any purchases made before an increase.
Add the precipitating bad news factor and you have the classic insider scenario.
The issue always comes down to: did the alleged purp have prior knowledge, what was the timeline of events, what records exist to support the case.
posted by scheptech at 8:19 AM on September 23, 2005
Add the precipitating bad news factor and you have the classic insider scenario.
The issue always comes down to: did the alleged purp have prior knowledge, what was the timeline of events, what records exist to support the case.
posted by scheptech at 8:19 AM on September 23, 2005
The SEC usualy investigates these anomolies, but it's very hard to get a conviction. It's not enough to show a coincidence, you have to prove they actualy had insider info.
Also, it's OK to tell someone who runs a blind trust for you to sell something, but not buy something.
Still, I'm suprised that members of the senate are allowed to do something like this at all.
posted by delmoi at 8:19 AM on September 23, 2005
Also, it's OK to tell someone who runs a blind trust for you to sell something, but not buy something.
Still, I'm suprised that members of the senate are allowed to do something like this at all.
posted by delmoi at 8:19 AM on September 23, 2005
Seriously, how does this not merit an FPP? What the hell is up your ass on this jperkins? I heard this mentioned in a passing comment a week ago on left wing am radio and assumed it had no legs, even though it sounded a hell of a lot more significant than Martha Stewart's shenanigans. I hope like hell someone takes notice of this.
posted by docpops at 8:23 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by docpops at 8:23 AM on September 23, 2005
I thought it was interesting that I first heard about this on Fox News, which it would seem to me would not report something like this unless and until there was overwhelming evidence linking him to wrongdoing, but then think about how maybe Frist has lost some luster after parting with the administration on stem cell research. If Frist was the White House's golden boy, then maybe he could count on their support, but I'm not sure he has it anymore.
posted by vito90 at 8:27 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by vito90 at 8:27 AM on September 23, 2005
To derail just a wee bit, but I've never gotten the idea of a hospital for profit. Do Frist's hosptials only do elective procedures?
posted by RakDaddy at 8:33 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by RakDaddy at 8:33 AM on September 23, 2005
Seriously, how does this not merit an FPP? What the hell is up your ass on this jperkins? I heard this mentioned in a passing comment a week ago on left wing am radio and assumed it had no legs, even though it sounded a hell of a lot more significant than Martha Stewart's shenanigans. I hope like hell someone takes notice of this.
What news are you listening to, because it's all over: AP, Reuters, Bloomberg, ABC, CNN Money, etc.
My problem with this post is that it is widely reported news. And if it had been Hillary Clinton doing it and deos had posted it then the same people arguing for what a righteous post this is would be skewering him.
posted by jperkins at 8:34 AM on September 23, 2005
What news are you listening to, because it's all over: AP, Reuters, Bloomberg, ABC, CNN Money, etc.
My problem with this post is that it is widely reported news. And if it had been Hillary Clinton doing it and deos had posted it then the same people arguing for what a righteous post this is would be skewering him.
posted by jperkins at 8:34 AM on September 23, 2005
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
posted by blue_beetle at 8:35 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by blue_beetle at 8:35 AM on September 23, 2005
Thank you for posting this, caddis. I had the same reaction as docpops when I read it - I hope Frist is investigated with the same zeal that Martha was.
posted by tizzie at 8:36 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by tizzie at 8:36 AM on September 23, 2005
way to be a dick, jperkins!
If objecting to a bullshit post is what qualifies as being a dick, then I have no problem with that. Fucktard.
posted by jperkins at 8:37 AM on September 23, 2005
If objecting to a bullshit post is what qualifies as being a dick, then I have no problem with that. Fucktard.
posted by jperkins at 8:37 AM on September 23, 2005
If the plug is pulled from Frist's career, does that mean it would still not be in a persistent vegetative state?
posted by Rothko at 8:38 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by Rothko at 8:38 AM on September 23, 2005
jperkins: can you please stop shitting in this thread? That's what MetaTalk is for. Thank you very much.
posted by grouse at 8:38 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by grouse at 8:38 AM on September 23, 2005
Jperkins: Have you heard about this website called metatalk? I hear you can complain about mefi posts over there without breaking the guidelines!
posted by delmoi at 8:42 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by delmoi at 8:42 AM on September 23, 2005
Also, let's see
member since: November 18, 2004
jperkins has posted 5 links and 283 comments to MetaFilter
and no threads and 11 comments to MetaTalk
and 4 questions and 53 answers to Ask MetaFilter
member since: July 31, 2002
caddis has posted 56 links and 1699 comments to MetaFilter
and 4 threads and 406 comments to MetaTalk
and 11 questions and 1190 answers to Ask MetaFilter
Caddis has posted 10 times as many links, 6 times as many comments, and 20 times as many AskMe answers as you. I don't see why you think you have a better grasp of what makes a good post or not.
If no one is going to post a MeTa thread about this, we should all shut up about it, including you jperkins.
posted by delmoi at 8:47 AM on September 23, 2005
member since: November 18, 2004
jperkins has posted 5 links and 283 comments to MetaFilter
and no threads and 11 comments to MetaTalk
and 4 questions and 53 answers to Ask MetaFilter
member since: July 31, 2002
caddis has posted 56 links and 1699 comments to MetaFilter
and 4 threads and 406 comments to MetaTalk
and 11 questions and 1190 answers to Ask MetaFilter
Caddis has posted 10 times as many links, 6 times as many comments, and 20 times as many AskMe answers as you. I don't see why you think you have a better grasp of what makes a good post or not.
If no one is going to post a MeTa thread about this, we should all shut up about it, including you jperkins.
posted by delmoi at 8:47 AM on September 23, 2005
Damn, people! Can we ever go one full day without this thread shitting? Just yesterday we had a MeTa thread started about how civil someone was remaining in a MeFi discussion, and that MeTa thread quickly turned into a shitstorm. What is wrong with this picture?
Oh, and I voted for ZOD! (I kid. I couldn't be that Republican if I tried. Hell, I couldn't be Repub at all if I tried.)
posted by mystyk at 8:49 AM on September 23, 2005
Oh, and I voted for ZOD! (I kid. I couldn't be that Republican if I tried. Hell, I couldn't be Repub at all if I tried.)
posted by mystyk at 8:49 AM on September 23, 2005
My problem with this post is that it is widely reported news.
I, for one, am finding the discussion educational -- in particular the nuance of "blind trusts", etc. I suspect there is more to learn from other MeFites who have experience in financial matters. So, with that in mind, I concur that this post is worthy of being an FPP. Now, back to the discussion, please. BTW - RakDaddy's question regarding "for-profit" hospitals is a good one. I suspect someone here has an answer.
posted by ericb at 8:52 AM on September 23, 2005
I, for one, am finding the discussion educational -- in particular the nuance of "blind trusts", etc. I suspect there is more to learn from other MeFites who have experience in financial matters. So, with that in mind, I concur that this post is worthy of being an FPP. Now, back to the discussion, please. BTW - RakDaddy's question regarding "for-profit" hospitals is a good one. I suspect someone here has an answer.
posted by ericb at 8:52 AM on September 23, 2005
Frist Insider Trading + Abramoff-Rove connection + PlameGate + FEMA Cronism + Ohio Coingate/Bouy Toy Scandal...
You forgot all the GOP connections to terrorism:
Norquist + Abdurahman Alamoudi
Abramoff + Saleh Abdullah Kamel
Safavian + Jamal Barzinji/Anwar Ibrahim
But the GOP has managed to avoid any blowjob/intern scandals, so they'll probably all get away with everything, Frist included.
Martha only went to jail because she gives to the Dems.
posted by bashos_frog at 8:52 AM on September 23, 2005
You forgot all the GOP connections to terrorism:
Norquist + Abdurahman Alamoudi
Abramoff + Saleh Abdullah Kamel
Safavian + Jamal Barzinji/Anwar Ibrahim
But the GOP has managed to avoid any blowjob/intern scandals, so they'll probably all get away with everything, Frist included.
Martha only went to jail because she gives to the Dems.
posted by bashos_frog at 8:52 AM on September 23, 2005
mr c: you would like they'd have to pay for this shit, but I really don't think that's likely at this point. Just look at the past. Where I work, I'm the only one that seems to care about this shit (and I live in the liberal SF bay area). People got better things to do with their time. I mean, there's the Emmy's and other important stuff on TV. There's the drivel that network news feeds us (everyone, look at the storm!! It's coming!!).
The Republicans win because The People want it that way. Period.
posted by e40 at 9:35 AM on September 23, 2005
The Republicans win because The People want it that way. Period.
posted by e40 at 9:35 AM on September 23, 2005
what e40 said.
posted by NationalKato at 10:31 AM on September 23, 2005
posted by NationalKato at 10:31 AM on September 23, 2005
Oh yeah, Frist will be punished for insider trading-- just like George W. was punished for his insider trading at Harken Energy.
*crickets chirp*
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 10:52 AM on September 23, 2005
*crickets chirp*
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 10:52 AM on September 23, 2005
Caddis has posted 10 times as many links, 6 times as many comments, and 20 times as many AskMe answers as you. I don't see why you think you have a better grasp of what makes a good post or not.
Caddis aside, posting volume and posting quality do not often correlate in a meaningful way.
posted by mkultra at 11:06 AM on September 23, 2005
Caddis aside, posting volume and posting quality do not often correlate in a meaningful way.
posted by mkultra at 11:06 AM on September 23, 2005
Frist will suffer no ill effects from this, neither on his current career nor his aspirations to Pennsylvania Avenue.
The stem-cell thing was much more of a concern to his base.
posted by Ynoxas at 1:22 PM on September 23, 2005
The stem-cell thing was much more of a concern to his base.
posted by Ynoxas at 1:22 PM on September 23, 2005
AS potentially bad (if true) this is, the real reason Frist would be hard to elect as president is his Kitten Killing background (as has been mentioned before). It's a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, but it sounds bad, and makes him look heartless
posted by edgeways at 1:42 PM on September 23, 2005
posted by edgeways at 1:42 PM on September 23, 2005
He's a fucking crook like the rest of the GOP leadership.
posted by clevershark at 2:41 PM on September 23, 2005
posted by clevershark at 2:41 PM on September 23, 2005
I suspect that "Insider Trading" is practiced by nearly everybody that has enough insider knowledge to do so. Those actually punished for it are either unlucky or lack enough influence to make the charges disappear.
So the question at this point is Frist in or out?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:30 PM on September 23, 2005
So the question at this point is Frist in or out?
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 3:30 PM on September 23, 2005
RakDaddy: HCA hospitals are basically normal hospitals. If you look at their institutions, you may find a hospital near you (assuming you're in the U.S.) that you didn't realize was private. They've cut back some in recent years, but they went on a binge with acquisitions in the early 90s.
posted by dilettante at 4:02 PM on September 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by dilettante at 4:02 PM on September 23, 2005 [1 favorite]
Frist Knew About Blind Trust Investments
"Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., was updated several times about his investments in blind trusts during 2002, the last time two weeks before he publicly denied any knowledge of what was in the accounts, documents show.posted by ericb at 9:47 AM on September 24, 2005
The updates included stock transactions involving HCA Inc., the hospital operating company founded by Frist's family.
...Frist, asked in a television interview in January 2003 whether he should sell his HCA stock, responded: 'Well, I think really for our viewers it should be understood that I put this into a blind trust. So as far as I know, I own no HCA stock'
Frist, referring to his trust and those of his family, also said in the interview, 'I have no control. It is illegal right now for me to know what the composition of those trusts are. So I have no idea.'
Documents filed with the Senate showed that just two weeks before those comments, the trustee of the senator's trust, M. Kirk Scobey Jr., wrote to Frist that HCA stock was contributed to the trust. It was valued at $15,000 and $50,000.
The documents filed by the trustees of Frist's blind trusts were obtained by The Associated Press on Friday.
On Nov. 20, 2002, Scobey wrote Frist that 14,781 shares of HCA were sold, along with three other investments. The same day, Scobey wrote that four other investments were sold, none of them HCA stock.
On May 16, 2002, Scobey advised Frist that four investments were contributed to a Frist blind trust, including HCA stock valued at $500,000 to $1 million. A second letter the same day mentions the same four investments going into a different trust, but with different valuations, including HCA stock valued at $250,000 to $500,000.
On Jan. 14, 2002, a trustee for Frist's children notified the secretary of the Senate that two investments were added to the blind trusts of Frist's sons Jonathan and Bryan — including HCA stock valued at $5,000 to $10,000. It was not clear whether Frist received a copy of the letter." [The Associated Press | September 24, 2005]
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A future Presidental run, this guy? Mr. You can get AIDS from tears? He makes Gore look charismatic.
posted by Talanvor at 7:40 AM on September 23, 2005