Do They Know It’s G8 Time?
November 15, 2005 6:39 AM Subscribe
"I had been planning to set up a socialist band, which I hope will play a leading role in the world socialist revolution because it is possible to influence people greatly through music and I have acquired sufficiently strong singing abilities through karaoke to convince myself that I would be capable of singing in a band." [music here]
awwwwwwwwwwwwww. This is so adorably earnest!
posted by By The Grace of God at 6:46 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by By The Grace of God at 6:46 AM on November 15, 2005
Unfortunately, serious general strikes (which could have led to a revolution) did not take off anywhere in the world at the time of this G8 summit. This was probably mainly because my call wasn’t backed up by any sizeable organisation
Erin go revolution?
I always feel like I'm in some form of time warp when I read about socialists/communists predicting the revolution to usher in a new era...
Hrm.
posted by Atreides at 6:47 AM on November 15, 2005
Erin go revolution?
I always feel like I'm in some form of time warp when I read about socialists/communists predicting the revolution to usher in a new era...
Hrm.
posted by Atreides at 6:47 AM on November 15, 2005
Wow. Having listened to a lot of different versions of "The Internationale," and a narrow preference to the American version, I have to say - in every way imaginable - that his was the absolute worst I have ever heard. The French lyrics aren't even right; it's "L'internationale sera la genre humain."
I'll stick to Utah Phillips and the Little Red Songbook for my revolutionary music, thanks.
posted by graymouser at 6:49 AM on November 15, 2005
I'll stick to Utah Phillips and the Little Red Songbook for my revolutionary music, thanks.
posted by graymouser at 6:49 AM on November 15, 2005
My new singing technique is unstoppable!
posted by hattifattener at 6:54 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by hattifattener at 6:54 AM on November 15, 2005
Well, graymouser, I think that as a socialist (and a music fan) you'd have to admit that, generally speaking, politics and popular music don't mix well. This is not to say that a great artist can't fire off the occasional great politically-oriented song, but to confuse art and politics is a recipe for disaster.
posted by jonmc at 6:55 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by jonmc at 6:55 AM on November 15, 2005
This is clearly a parody created by capitalist running dogs, out to ridicule and humiliate those involved in the revolutionary struggle. That's a very posh accent for a leftist, with no discernable trace of either Manchester, Scotland or Penarth, near Cardiff.
Alternatively, he could be the British answer to Wild Man Fischer. Martine McCutcheon could gain some badly needed street cred by joining his combo.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:00 AM on November 15, 2005
Alternatively, he could be the British answer to Wild Man Fischer. Martine McCutcheon could gain some badly needed street cred by joining his combo.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:00 AM on November 15, 2005
PeterMcDermott, do not blaspheme against the mighty Wild Man.
posted by jonmc at 7:02 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by jonmc at 7:02 AM on November 15, 2005
Brezhnev, Teng and Castro
every day negotiate us closer to disastro
Idi Amin and the Shah
and Al Fatah is quite bizarre
I could never get the hang of ideology
I do the rock....
posted by jonmc at 7:05 AM on November 15, 2005
every day negotiate us closer to disastro
Idi Amin and the Shah
and Al Fatah is quite bizarre
I could never get the hang of ideology
I do the rock....
posted by jonmc at 7:05 AM on November 15, 2005
politics and popular music don't mix well
Depends on whether you're talking about politics or Politics. There are zillions of great political songs/records, but there aren't very many (perhaps even any) that espouse a particular cause that are worth listening to.
However, I'd also put in a word here for The Deviants/Pink Fairies who were the White Panther's British house band.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:08 AM on November 15, 2005
Depends on whether you're talking about politics or Politics. There are zillions of great political songs/records, but there aren't very many (perhaps even any) that espouse a particular cause that are worth listening to.
However, I'd also put in a word here for The Deviants/Pink Fairies who were the White Panther's British house band.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:08 AM on November 15, 2005
If everyone was good at managing the means of production we wouldn't need socialism, everyone would be a successful business owner and therefore happy with the economy.
But everyone is not a good business manager, so why do we want them to make decisions about the means of production?
It's like saying that anyone who wants to play for the NFL should get to, and teams will be created on a "straws drawing basis" rather than based on performance.
posted by ewkpates at 7:09 AM on November 15, 2005
But everyone is not a good business manager, so why do we want them to make decisions about the means of production?
It's like saying that anyone who wants to play for the NFL should get to, and teams will be created on a "straws drawing basis" rather than based on performance.
posted by ewkpates at 7:09 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc:
Well, I love radical folk music, from Joe Hill and the early Wobblies to Guthrie and Seeger, to Phillips in the modern day. And there's an anarcho-syndicalist Esperanto band I like called JoMo kaj Liberecanoj. But for popular music, I don't get particularly political, no.
posted by graymouser at 7:09 AM on November 15, 2005
Well, I love radical folk music, from Joe Hill and the early Wobblies to Guthrie and Seeger, to Phillips in the modern day. And there's an anarcho-syndicalist Esperanto band I like called JoMo kaj Liberecanoj. But for popular music, I don't get particularly political, no.
posted by graymouser at 7:09 AM on November 15, 2005
I didn't come up with it, but I will repeat it: Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.
posted by baphomet at 7:14 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by baphomet at 7:14 AM on November 15, 2005
A more interesting type like this would be Cornelius Cardew, who was a leading avant garde composer (studied with Stockhausen, for example, before writing an anti-Karlheinz S. tract!), founder of the partially-untrained Scratch Orchestra (which included Brian Eno toward the end), and an early member of the groundbreaking and influential improvisation group (who were Maoist (?!) at the time) AMM.
Later, Cardew turned his compositions to socialist tunes, simple tunes that he hoped would have an impact (like "Smash the Social Contract" and "Soon There Will Be a High Tide of Revolution"). This part of his career is roundly savaged as a musical failure, which he probably expected, and needless to say, he didn't inspire a world revolution before his early death in a hit and run (which continues to generate conspiracy theories).
Much of his early music, notably "Treatise" and "The Great Learning", is remarkably complex and radical. Even his (few) interpreters have dustups over the intentions of his (long, detailed) graphic scores.
The guy linked in this FPP, however, is just sorta funny.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:16 AM on November 15, 2005
Later, Cardew turned his compositions to socialist tunes, simple tunes that he hoped would have an impact (like "Smash the Social Contract" and "Soon There Will Be a High Tide of Revolution"). This part of his career is roundly savaged as a musical failure, which he probably expected, and needless to say, he didn't inspire a world revolution before his early death in a hit and run (which continues to generate conspiracy theories).
Much of his early music, notably "Treatise" and "The Great Learning", is remarkably complex and radical. Even his (few) interpreters have dustups over the intentions of his (long, detailed) graphic scores.
The guy linked in this FPP, however, is just sorta funny.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:16 AM on November 15, 2005
I don't know, aside from all of the folkies that I like, This Machine Kills Fascists indeed!, I think Billy Bragg's early stuff is pretty great.
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by OmieWise at 7:16 AM on November 15, 2005
Well, I love radical folk music, from Joe Hill and the early Wobblies to Guthrie and Seeger, to Phillips in the modern day.
Again, it all depends upon the musician. Guthrie was obviously brilliant (and brought a much needed cultural populism to the Depression-era left, who previously thought choirs singing "The Internationale," was a great way to reach the American proletariat). Seeger, I'll never forgive for leading the charge against Dylan going electric. And many music experts have posited that Jimmie Rodgers, who was never explicitly political, was the true "voice of the depression." He definitely outstripped Guthrie in terms of sheer talent. (Read Greil Marcus' The Old Weird America for more on this)
And I've always taken the position that "folk music" is nothing but regional, pre-mass media pop music. And by the era of Guthrie and Co, there was already radio & records, so the pure folk sound (which probably never existed in the first place) was already gone.
Political rock and roll is at it's best when it stays away from ideology and merely speaks from honest anger is street-oriented terms (the MC5's "The American Ruse," The Ramones "Bonzo Goes To Bitburg," The Clash's "White Man In Hammersmith Palais.)
Just theorizing.
posted by jonmc at 7:17 AM on November 15, 2005
Again, it all depends upon the musician. Guthrie was obviously brilliant (and brought a much needed cultural populism to the Depression-era left, who previously thought choirs singing "The Internationale," was a great way to reach the American proletariat). Seeger, I'll never forgive for leading the charge against Dylan going electric. And many music experts have posited that Jimmie Rodgers, who was never explicitly political, was the true "voice of the depression." He definitely outstripped Guthrie in terms of sheer talent. (Read Greil Marcus' The Old Weird America for more on this)
And I've always taken the position that "folk music" is nothing but regional, pre-mass media pop music. And by the era of Guthrie and Co, there was already radio & records, so the pure folk sound (which probably never existed in the first place) was already gone.
Political rock and roll is at it's best when it stays away from ideology and merely speaks from honest anger is street-oriented terms (the MC5's "The American Ruse," The Ramones "Bonzo Goes To Bitburg," The Clash's "White Man In Hammersmith Palais.)
Just theorizing.
posted by jonmc at 7:17 AM on November 15, 2005
politics and popular music don't mix well
This is all, of course, a matter of taste, but:
Billy Bragg
Public Enemy
early U2
The Clash
Bruce Cockburn
Woody Guthrie
Rage Against The Machine
early Fugazi
early Ani DiFranco
and that's just off the top of my head, while I sit in my 2 yeard old son's room while he and a friend try to cram themselves into the wooden box that holds his blocks (and no, they don't both fit, so, yes, their venture will ultimately fail).
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:24 AM on November 15, 2005
This is all, of course, a matter of taste, but:
Billy Bragg
Public Enemy
early U2
The Clash
Bruce Cockburn
Woody Guthrie
Rage Against The Machine
early Fugazi
early Ani DiFranco
and that's just off the top of my head, while I sit in my 2 yeard old son's room while he and a friend try to cram themselves into the wooden box that holds his blocks (and no, they don't both fit, so, yes, their venture will ultimately fail).
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:24 AM on November 15, 2005
the world socialist revolution
Haha. That has to be a parody. Either that, or you have to feel sorry for the under 40 crowd who missed there chance and are so nostalgic for what they imagine were the revolutionary days of the 60's when the idea of a worldwide socialist revolution wasn't completely absurd. Unfortunately for them, socialism lost and communism is adead dying ideology. But that doesn't stop younger people from trying to find something to be revolutionary about so they can wear their Che shirts. These are the same nuts in all of those protest pictures. As Hitchens said, "I'm sure a lot of you fancy yourself as having leftist revolutionary credentials and are eager to show me your battle scars from your long underground twilight struggle against Dick Cheney." Ouch.
posted by dios at 7:25 AM on November 15, 2005
Haha. That has to be a parody. Either that, or you have to feel sorry for the under 40 crowd who missed there chance and are so nostalgic for what they imagine were the revolutionary days of the 60's when the idea of a worldwide socialist revolution wasn't completely absurd. Unfortunately for them, socialism lost and communism is a
posted by dios at 7:25 AM on November 15, 2005
This reminds me of the reliably (and unintentionally) awesome Maoist music review site that's been linked here a couple of times. I don't know if there's anything funnier than their attempts to rationalize Rage Against the Machine's major-label deal.
Mr. Socialist Band here should really sit down and watch that Scorsese Dylan documentary that was all the rage last month; that movie really reinforced my belief that Dylan would've been a footnote if he'd stuck with folk, but really got going on the path to greatness when he got less political and more personal. And weird.
posted by COBRA! at 7:26 AM on November 15, 2005
Mr. Socialist Band here should really sit down and watch that Scorsese Dylan documentary that was all the rage last month; that movie really reinforced my belief that Dylan would've been a footnote if he'd stuck with folk, but really got going on the path to greatness when he got less political and more personal. And weird.
posted by COBRA! at 7:26 AM on November 15, 2005
politics and popular music don't mix well
I think Bob Dylan, Steve Earle and the like are a sufficient counterpoint to that.
I think a more accurate statement would be that infantile politics and popular music don't mix well. By that I am referring to those "political" songs you here every once in a while from popular musicians with silly messages that suggest the musician's political acumen is on par with MTV News.
posted by dios at 7:29 AM on November 15, 2005
I think Bob Dylan, Steve Earle and the like are a sufficient counterpoint to that.
I think a more accurate statement would be that infantile politics and popular music don't mix well. By that I am referring to those "political" songs you here every once in a while from popular musicians with silly messages that suggest the musician's political acumen is on par with MTV News.
posted by dios at 7:29 AM on November 15, 2005
eustacescrubb, all of those groups had politically-oriented material, but they 1)didn't make it their raison d'etre, they could do love songs, rave ups and humorous tunes as well (even PE had "Cold Lampin' With Flavor."). It was about the music first, they weren't house organs.
And while I admire Fugazi and Ani DiFranco's commitment, they're music just bores me. Good politics dosen't neccessary equal good listening or vice versa.
And RATM just suck. No Offense.
posted by jonmc at 7:29 AM on November 15, 2005
And while I admire Fugazi and Ani DiFranco's commitment, they're music just bores me. Good politics dosen't neccessary equal good listening or vice versa.
And RATM just suck. No Offense.
posted by jonmc at 7:29 AM on November 15, 2005
I think Bob Dylan, Steve Earle and the like are a sufficient counterpoint to that.
I second that.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:30 AM on November 15, 2005
I second that.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:30 AM on November 15, 2005
I think Bob Dylan, Steve Earle and the like are a sufficient counterpoint to that.
Dylan's best work was when he abandoned sloganeering songs. His post Bringing It All back Home work had barbed protest within it, but we're not talking facile "Who's Side Are You On," stuff here. He'd moved beyond that.
posted by jonmc at 7:30 AM on November 15, 2005
Dylan's best work was when he abandoned sloganeering songs. His post Bringing It All back Home work had barbed protest within it, but we're not talking facile "Who's Side Are You On," stuff here. He'd moved beyond that.
posted by jonmc at 7:30 AM on November 15, 2005
Just to address one of the bands on your list , eustacescrubb, I'd say that Public Enemy is good because of their political fire, not because of their politics. I love It Takes a Nation of Millions, but if you really listen, Chuck D's politics aren't all that admirable (how many times do we hear "white devils" on the record?). What makes PE work is that Chuck's really, really pissed off, and that energy couples with his skill at putting it into words (the actual meaning of the words doesn't always make sense, but damn, the man can deliver them).
posted by COBRA! at 7:31 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by COBRA! at 7:31 AM on November 15, 2005
Is Steve Earle popular? I have no idea; the only place I read about him is here on MeFi.
posted by mischief at 7:34 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by mischief at 7:34 AM on November 15, 2005
I love It Takes a Nation of Millions, but if you really listen, Chuck D's politics aren't all that admirable (how many times do we hear "white devils" on the record?).
Less tha you'd think. Chuck's no Mau Mau, he's pretty sophisticated, his embrace of Farrakhan notwithstanding. I'm with you on his delivery though. He had a voice like a pissed off God.
For sophisticated politics mixed with incredible music* Boogie Down Productions The Blueprint is the best example. And even that album has a few old school boast type songs.
*which is an extremely hard trick to pull off. That's what I meant by music and politics rarely mixing well. And if the music is bad, nobody's gonna hear what you're saying anyway, so it's a lose-lose.
posted by jonmc at 7:35 AM on November 15, 2005
Less tha you'd think. Chuck's no Mau Mau, he's pretty sophisticated, his embrace of Farrakhan notwithstanding. I'm with you on his delivery though. He had a voice like a pissed off God.
For sophisticated politics mixed with incredible music* Boogie Down Productions The Blueprint is the best example. And even that album has a few old school boast type songs.
*which is an extremely hard trick to pull off. That's what I meant by music and politics rarely mixing well. And if the music is bad, nobody's gonna hear what you're saying anyway, so it's a lose-lose.
posted by jonmc at 7:35 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc, are you telling me that the great Tangled Up in Blue wasn't a political statement???? Fie!
Any thoughts on Earle who is explicitly political?
posted by dios at 7:35 AM on November 15, 2005
Any thoughts on Earle who is explicitly political?
posted by dios at 7:35 AM on November 15, 2005
Is Steve Earle popular? I have no idea; the only place I read about him is here on MeFi.
posted by mischief at 9:34 AM CST on November 15 [!]
I don't know by what metric to answer this question. But I do know that I have followed him since he came back from the brink in the early 90's. When I have seen him, we consistently draws big crowds. Not U2 crowds, but I think he is fairly well known (maybe he is more well known down here in Texas where that kind of music sells better).
posted by dios at 7:38 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by mischief at 9:34 AM CST on November 15 [!]
I don't know by what metric to answer this question. But I do know that I have followed him since he came back from the brink in the early 90's. When I have seen him, we consistently draws big crowds. Not U2 crowds, but I think he is fairly well known (maybe he is more well known down here in Texas where that kind of music sells better).
posted by dios at 7:38 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc,
firstly, why not just say: bands who make only progpoganda music suck.
secondly, I dig Difranco, Fugazi and Rage, even though I generally disagree with the extremeness of Rage's socialism (they condone violence as an acceptable means of change, after all) and so do a great many other people, so the fact that you, jonmc, don't like them doesn't prove the point that politics and popular music don't mix well; rather it just shows that you don't always like what's popular.
COBRA! -- I wasn't advocating the bands' philosophies or ideologies, but pointing out that they were popular political bands who made good music. As with Rage, I find myself disagreeing with Chuck D's politics, and there was that whole Professor Griff episode, and anyone who's read my comments in the Alito threads of late knows I don't always see eye to eye with Ani w/r/t abortion, but the reason all these bands make good political music is because even when I do disagree with them, I still end up seeing where they're coming from and understanding how they hold the positions they do. They have, in my eyes, been succesful as artists, because they allow me to see the world through their eyes, even when I don't share their speific politics.
And: Steve Earle rocks.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:38 AM on November 15, 2005
firstly, why not just say: bands who make only progpoganda music suck.
secondly, I dig Difranco, Fugazi and Rage, even though I generally disagree with the extremeness of Rage's socialism (they condone violence as an acceptable means of change, after all) and so do a great many other people, so the fact that you, jonmc, don't like them doesn't prove the point that politics and popular music don't mix well; rather it just shows that you don't always like what's popular.
COBRA! -- I wasn't advocating the bands' philosophies or ideologies, but pointing out that they were popular political bands who made good music. As with Rage, I find myself disagreeing with Chuck D's politics, and there was that whole Professor Griff episode, and anyone who's read my comments in the Alito threads of late knows I don't always see eye to eye with Ani w/r/t abortion, but the reason all these bands make good political music is because even when I do disagree with them, I still end up seeing where they're coming from and understanding how they hold the positions they do. They have, in my eyes, been succesful as artists, because they allow me to see the world through their eyes, even when I don't share their speific politics.
And: Steve Earle rocks.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:38 AM on November 15, 2005
And while I admire Fugazi and Ani DiFranco's commitment, they're music just bores me.
jonmc, you again demonstrate a failure to grasp any music that's a bit more complex than 70s/80s butt rock.
(I'm just kidding... I love some of the artists you mentioned above.)
You can definitely keep Ani DiFranco, but Fugazi continues to be one of my very favorite and most interesting rock bands. I just never get tired of listening to them. But mainly for non-political reasons. Their lyrics are sometimes a bit too earnest for me, though I do respect (and agree with) their anti-violent and anti-corporatist thems. Mostly what I like about them, is that they combine hardcore punk rock and jazz structures without seeming at all contrived, and still being intensely listenable.
Back on topic, I was also surprised not to see any mention of proto-anarcho-syndaclist-socialists Gang of Four, who are right in the middle of a kick ass tour. Saw them at a show last month, and they were so fucking great, they completely overwhelmed the rest of the lineup, which included the Pixies and Built to Spill.
posted by psmealey at 7:39 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc, you again demonstrate a failure to grasp any music that's a bit more complex than 70s/80s butt rock.
(I'm just kidding... I love some of the artists you mentioned above.)
You can definitely keep Ani DiFranco, but Fugazi continues to be one of my very favorite and most interesting rock bands. I just never get tired of listening to them. But mainly for non-political reasons. Their lyrics are sometimes a bit too earnest for me, though I do respect (and agree with) their anti-violent and anti-corporatist thems. Mostly what I like about them, is that they combine hardcore punk rock and jazz structures without seeming at all contrived, and still being intensely listenable.
Back on topic, I was also surprised not to see any mention of proto-anarcho-syndaclist-socialists Gang of Four, who are right in the middle of a kick ass tour. Saw them at a show last month, and they were so fucking great, they completely overwhelmed the rest of the lineup, which included the Pixies and Built to Spill.
posted by psmealey at 7:39 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc, are you telling me that the great Tangled Up in Blue wasn't a political statement???? Fie!
I hope you're being sarcastic.
I used to misinterpret that song as a hymn to the "sixties,' but as a 35-year-old man with the usual accumulation of experiences and people in the rear view mirror, I realize it's about something far more universal.
(I like Steve Earle a lot, although I think his music has suffered since he got more explicitly protest oriented. Copperhead Road managed to make it's points without bludgeoning you with them, and the music was far better than his current material, IMHO. YMMV.
I still like the dude, though.
posted by jonmc at 7:39 AM on November 15, 2005
I hope you're being sarcastic.
I used to misinterpret that song as a hymn to the "sixties,' but as a 35-year-old man with the usual accumulation of experiences and people in the rear view mirror, I realize it's about something far more universal.
(I like Steve Earle a lot, although I think his music has suffered since he got more explicitly protest oriented. Copperhead Road managed to make it's points without bludgeoning you with them, and the music was far better than his current material, IMHO. YMMV.
I still like the dude, though.
posted by jonmc at 7:39 AM on November 15, 2005
Is Steve Earle popular? I have no idea; the only place I read about him is here on MeFi.
I can't speak for the country at large, but Steve Earle is big enough in Minneapolis that he's generally greeted at the city gates with palm fronds.
posted by COBRA! at 7:40 AM on November 15, 2005
I can't speak for the country at large, but Steve Earle is big enough in Minneapolis that he's generally greeted at the city gates with palm fronds.
posted by COBRA! at 7:40 AM on November 15, 2005
I think his music has suffered since he got more explicitly protest oriented.
See, we just disagree. Jerusalem is one of my all-time favorite records.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:41 AM on November 15, 2005
See, we just disagree. Jerusalem is one of my all-time favorite records.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:41 AM on November 15, 2005
firstly, why not just say: bands who make only progpoganda music suck.
More or less, that's what I am saying. That's why any group that declares themselves a "socialist band,"* makes me suspect that the music is gonna suck.
or anarchist, or republican for that matter.
posted by jonmc at 7:41 AM on November 15, 2005
More or less, that's what I am saying. That's why any group that declares themselves a "socialist band,"* makes me suspect that the music is gonna suck.
or anarchist, or republican for that matter.
posted by jonmc at 7:41 AM on November 15, 2005
Also I don't think he means to call every white person a devil. We can define "white devils" as white people who are evil. White people who do good things would not fit into the category. Blacks who are evil would be defined as "black devils." Hispanics as "brown devils." Asians would be "yellow devils" and so fourth.
posted by j-urb at 7:41 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by j-urb at 7:41 AM on November 15, 2005
I hear the Ballad of Hollis Brown as a political song, even it's supposed to be about free will.
posted by swift at 7:42 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by swift at 7:42 AM on November 15, 2005
eustace: I still like him. I'm just saying that Copperhead Road is very political in a less explicit way, and musically better (to my ears, anyway).
posted by jonmc at 7:42 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by jonmc at 7:42 AM on November 15, 2005
I still end up seeing where they're coming from and understanding how they hold the positions they do. They have, in my eyes, been succesful as artists, because they allow me to see the world through their eyes, even when I don't share their speific politics.
And I completely see where you're coming from there. Really, I think the key to making good music is to care passionately about something (be it politics, the woman who done you wrong, the innate glory of weird sounds, or whatever) and to have that passion carry through.
I like Steve Earle a lot, although I think his music has suffered since he got more explicitly protest oriented.
I had just typed almost that exact sentence.
posted by COBRA! at 7:44 AM on November 15, 2005
And I completely see where you're coming from there. Really, I think the key to making good music is to care passionately about something (be it politics, the woman who done you wrong, the innate glory of weird sounds, or whatever) and to have that passion carry through.
I like Steve Earle a lot, although I think his music has suffered since he got more explicitly protest oriented.
I had just typed almost that exact sentence.
posted by COBRA! at 7:44 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc: I see your point -- narrative lyrics that exemplify the human condition often make more powerful political statments than explicitly didactic lyrics -- e.g. of these examples being Johnny Cash and Springsteen, both of whom deal with very political topics through narrative rather than expositon. Show, don't tell, as every fiction instructor I ever had would say.
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:45 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by eustacescrubb at 7:45 AM on November 15, 2005
Me: jonmc, are you telling me that the great Tangled Up in Blue wasn't a political statement???? Fie!
jonmc: I hope you're being sarcastic.
Heh. Of course, I was. I absolutely love that song and never thought of it as politically motivated until just now. But thinking of it now, I guess I could try to force some message upon it. I mean, come on! Tangled up in Blue... he's talking about the Red/Blue state dichotomy here! And the lyrics: "Revolution in the air!" How more obvious can you get?
posted by dios at 7:48 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc: I hope you're being sarcastic.
Heh. Of course, I was. I absolutely love that song and never thought of it as politically motivated until just now. But thinking of it now, I guess I could try to force some message upon it. I mean, come on! Tangled up in Blue... he's talking about the Red/Blue state dichotomy here! And the lyrics: "Revolution in the air!" How more obvious can you get?
posted by dios at 7:48 AM on November 15, 2005
Now, we're on the same page. Also, songs about specific issues can become dated rather quickly. Lennon's "Power To The People," sounds rather embarassing now, but "Well, Well, Well," sounds as fresh as the day it was released.
posted by jonmc at 7:49 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by jonmc at 7:49 AM on November 15, 2005
jonmc: Thank you for reminding me of the existence of this song.
posted by matildaben at 7:52 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by matildaben at 7:52 AM on November 15, 2005
Jonmc: but we're not talking facile "Who's Side Are You On," stuff here.
I think that you're underestimating "Which Side Are You On?" as a song. Utah Phillips points out a difference between the old Wobbly songs and the stuff Dylan was doing in his album We Have Fed You All for a Thousand Years; it was direct, subversive and radical. A lot of the Little Red Songbook was written to be sung over the Salvation Army's band that would play to break up IWW rallies, or to be sung by workers during long strikes as a morale booster. The later radicals, particularly by the time Dylan got involved, were more self-aware and more poetically sophisticated; there is a real difference between "how many miles must a white dove sail before it can rest in the sand" and "dump the bosses off your back." (All of this is Utah's points, not my own.)
Can music be political and good? Sure - but I think it has to be done by someone who is, first and foremost, passionate about music. That difference is more important than anything else.
posted by graymouser at 7:52 AM on November 15, 2005
I think that you're underestimating "Which Side Are You On?" as a song. Utah Phillips points out a difference between the old Wobbly songs and the stuff Dylan was doing in his album We Have Fed You All for a Thousand Years; it was direct, subversive and radical. A lot of the Little Red Songbook was written to be sung over the Salvation Army's band that would play to break up IWW rallies, or to be sung by workers during long strikes as a morale booster. The later radicals, particularly by the time Dylan got involved, were more self-aware and more poetically sophisticated; there is a real difference between "how many miles must a white dove sail before it can rest in the sand" and "dump the bosses off your back." (All of this is Utah's points, not my own.)
Can music be political and good? Sure - but I think it has to be done by someone who is, first and foremost, passionate about music. That difference is more important than anything else.
posted by graymouser at 7:52 AM on November 15, 2005
Johnny Cash and Springsteen, both of whom deal with very political topics through narrative rather than expositon.
Springsteen in interesting. He tells great narratives on his albums that I like (Nebraska, Ghost of Tom Joad, Devil and Dust) and no so great narratives, in my opinion, on the ones I don't like (the rest). But I always see Springsteen on those albums talking about the human condition and I never get the sense he is making a point about it. That is, he nails realism and a kind of Willy Loman depressive look at the absence of the American dream (I hear the line from Willy in Springsteen's songs about man being an orange who gets all eaten up by life). But what I don't get from those songs is a suggestion that the situation can be remedied somehow, which to me, would be required for a song to be political. So, while I am certainly no Springsteen expert, I never found him personally to be political, just more of a person striving for realism.
posted by dios at 7:56 AM on November 15, 2005
Springsteen in interesting. He tells great narratives on his albums that I like (Nebraska, Ghost of Tom Joad, Devil and Dust) and no so great narratives, in my opinion, on the ones I don't like (the rest). But I always see Springsteen on those albums talking about the human condition and I never get the sense he is making a point about it. That is, he nails realism and a kind of Willy Loman depressive look at the absence of the American dream (I hear the line from Willy in Springsteen's songs about man being an orange who gets all eaten up by life). But what I don't get from those songs is a suggestion that the situation can be remedied somehow, which to me, would be required for a song to be political. So, while I am certainly no Springsteen expert, I never found him personally to be political, just more of a person striving for realism.
posted by dios at 7:56 AM on November 15, 2005
The problem that exclusively political bands (and exclusively political comedians) have is that they're straight-jacketed by an ideaology. When you need to filter every creative thought you have through a political-correctness meter it damages the creative process. Self-editing (at least at the initial stages) kills creativity.
There's another interesting thing about eustacescrubb's comment about "show, don't tell." Most of the people who make that comment would also tell you that you need conflict to make interesting drama/novels/films/comedy and maybe it applies to music too. Without some kind of inner conflict from the singer a song can fall flat - and political singers aren't much good at self-doubt. Just a thought...
posted by dodgygeezer at 8:03 AM on November 15, 2005
There's another interesting thing about eustacescrubb's comment about "show, don't tell." Most of the people who make that comment would also tell you that you need conflict to make interesting drama/novels/films/comedy and maybe it applies to music too. Without some kind of inner conflict from the singer a song can fall flat - and political singers aren't much good at self-doubt. Just a thought...
posted by dodgygeezer at 8:03 AM on November 15, 2005
you're welcome.
There's always been a healthy distrust of rigid ideologues in rock and roll, and I'm glad for that. As Joey and the Bros put it:
Well I'm against it I'm against it Well I'm against it I'm against it I don't like politics I don't like communists I don't like games and fun I don't like anyone And I'm against... I don't like Jesus freaks I don't like circus geeksI don't like summer and spring I don't like anything I don't like sex and drugs I don't like waterbugs I don't care about poverty
All I care about is me And I'm against... I don't like playing ping pong I don't like the Viet Cong I don't like Burger King I don't like anything And I'm against...Well I'm against it
I'm against it
even in "Bonzo Goes To Bitburg," he says: "If there's one thing that makes me sick, it's when someone tries to hide behind politics..."
posted by jonmc at 8:03 AM on November 15, 2005
There's always been a healthy distrust of rigid ideologues in rock and roll, and I'm glad for that. As Joey and the Bros put it:
Well I'm against it I'm against it Well I'm against it I'm against it I don't like politics I don't like communists I don't like games and fun I don't like anyone And I'm against... I don't like Jesus freaks I don't like circus geeksI don't like summer and spring I don't like anything I don't like sex and drugs I don't like waterbugs I don't care about poverty
All I care about is me And I'm against... I don't like playing ping pong I don't like the Viet Cong I don't like Burger King I don't like anything And I'm against...Well I'm against it
I'm against it
even in "Bonzo Goes To Bitburg," he says: "If there's one thing that makes me sick, it's when someone tries to hide behind politics..."
posted by jonmc at 8:03 AM on November 15, 2005
(also don't think that I'm endorsing apathy here. John Sayles is one of my personal heroes. I'm still in the fight, grudgingly.)
posted by jonmc at 8:05 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by jonmc at 8:05 AM on November 15, 2005
Marvin Gaye, anyone?
Curtis Mayfield?
Hip-hop is an interesting case. A lot of the best hip hop is intermittently political (e.g., Talib Kweli/Mos Def, J-Live, Common, Jean Grae, Dead Prez and the Roots) but not agenda driven. I think the genre lends itself to pulling this off. I don't want my singing songs so personal. For some reason I expect my hip hop to intelligently tackle the occasional political issue.
dios: you don't like The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle?
posted by kosem at 8:37 AM on November 15, 2005
Curtis Mayfield?
Hip-hop is an interesting case. A lot of the best hip hop is intermittently political (e.g., Talib Kweli/Mos Def, J-Live, Common, Jean Grae, Dead Prez and the Roots) but not agenda driven. I think the genre lends itself to pulling this off. I don't want my singing songs so personal. For some reason I expect my hip hop to intelligently tackle the occasional political issue.
dios: you don't like The Wild, The Innocent and the E Street Shuffle?
posted by kosem at 8:37 AM on November 15, 2005
take take the noise in my head
c'mon and turn turn it up
i wanna turn turn you on
i play it all i play it all
i play it words + guitar
well you want it or you don't
either you'll come or you won't
it's the thing you'll never know
it's the thing you'll never own
rock you till your good and dead
rock you till there's nothing left
posted by bardic at 8:38 AM on November 15, 2005
c'mon and turn turn it up
i wanna turn turn you on
i play it all i play it all
i play it words + guitar
well you want it or you don't
either you'll come or you won't
it's the thing you'll never know
it's the thing you'll never own
rock you till your good and dead
rock you till there's nothing left
posted by bardic at 8:38 AM on November 15, 2005
Let's not forget The Refused, my vote for best political rock band of all time.
posted by saladin at 8:51 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by saladin at 8:51 AM on November 15, 2005
Flavor Flav's got problems of his own.
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:55 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by Divine_Wino at 8:55 AM on November 15, 2005
He had a voice like a pissed off God.
He still does jonmc. Check out brand-new "New Whirl Odor" & be surprised at how great it is. And Divine_Wino, yeah, I always thought that was a weird song.
No one's mentioned Consolidated yet - a rather fascinating band who got so into the vacuum of identity politics that they eventually disappeared up their own ass.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:09 AM on November 15, 2005
He still does jonmc. Check out brand-new "New Whirl Odor" & be surprised at how great it is. And Divine_Wino, yeah, I always thought that was a weird song.
No one's mentioned Consolidated yet - a rather fascinating band who got so into the vacuum of identity politics that they eventually disappeared up their own ass.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:09 AM on November 15, 2005
And early reggae has dozens if not hundreds of great political songs.
posted by stinkycheese at 9:11 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by stinkycheese at 9:11 AM on November 15, 2005
Bill S. Preston, Esq.:
While I agree that in time our band will be most triumphant. The truth is Wyld Stallions will never be a super band until we get Eddie Van Halen on guitar.
Ted "Theodore" Logan:
Yes, Bill. But, I do not believe we will get Eddie Van Halen until we have a triumphant video.
Bill: Ted, it's pointless to have a triumphant video before we even have descent instruments.
Ted: Well, how can we have descent instruments when we don't really even know how to play?
Bill: That is why we need Eddie Van Halen!
Ted: And, that is why we need a triumphant video!
posted by shimmer at 9:11 AM on November 15, 2005
While I agree that in time our band will be most triumphant. The truth is Wyld Stallions will never be a super band until we get Eddie Van Halen on guitar.
Ted "Theodore" Logan:
Yes, Bill. But, I do not believe we will get Eddie Van Halen until we have a triumphant video.
Bill: Ted, it's pointless to have a triumphant video before we even have descent instruments.
Ted: Well, how can we have descent instruments when we don't really even know how to play?
Bill: That is why we need Eddie Van Halen!
Ted: And, that is why we need a triumphant video!
posted by shimmer at 9:11 AM on November 15, 2005
No one's mentioned Consolidated yet
They were good back in the day - thanks for reminding me.
posted by dodgygeezer at 9:13 AM on November 15, 2005
They were good back in the day - thanks for reminding me.
posted by dodgygeezer at 9:13 AM on November 15, 2005
Flavor Flav's got problems of his own.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:55 AM CST on November 15 [!]
I had my mind thoroughly blown last year when I was getting a haircut and the woman doing the cutting mentioned that she really loved watching Flavor Flav on The Surreal Life. I said that it made me kind of sad that he was reduced to doing low-rent reality tv, and that I'd gone through a huge Public Enemy phase a few years before. She stopped cutting, looked shocked, and said, "Flavor Flav was in Public Enemy?!?"
And then I felt a little more sad for Flavor.
posted by COBRA! at 9:13 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:55 AM CST on November 15 [!]
I had my mind thoroughly blown last year when I was getting a haircut and the woman doing the cutting mentioned that she really loved watching Flavor Flav on The Surreal Life. I said that it made me kind of sad that he was reduced to doing low-rent reality tv, and that I'd gone through a huge Public Enemy phase a few years before. She stopped cutting, looked shocked, and said, "Flavor Flav was in Public Enemy?!?"
And then I felt a little more sad for Flavor.
posted by COBRA! at 9:13 AM on November 15, 2005
If anyone here is looking for a long-lived (going on 30 years), musically adventurous, and politically conscious band allow me to recommend The Ex.
posted by jtron at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by jtron at 9:29 AM on November 15, 2005
No one's mentioned Consolidated yet
They were good back in the day - thanks for reminding me.
though they kinda lost it after endorsing 'the sexual politics of meat'... pah, that "Friendly Fascism" album really sucked.
posted by tnai at 11:01 AM on November 15, 2005
They were good back in the day - thanks for reminding me.
though they kinda lost it after endorsing 'the sexual politics of meat'... pah, that "Friendly Fascism" album really sucked.
posted by tnai at 11:01 AM on November 15, 2005
I see your Consolidated and raise you one Negativeland.
posted by bardic at 11:49 AM on November 15, 2005
posted by bardic at 11:49 AM on November 15, 2005
pah, that "Friendly Fascism" album really sucked.
I dug it, but more in a theoretical way than a musical way honestly. Come to think of it, that was the last one I bought by them. And "College Radio" is exactly what I meant by them going up their own ass. The only way it could've been more rediculous would've been for each of them to start writing songs about the other guy(s) were moles for the patriarchal fascist system, or something.
Although I suppose the argument could be made that "White American Male '91 (The Truth Hurts) Part 2" - wherein the sole lyrics are "I'm a white guy" over & over - is a blanket statement of self-implication.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:18 PM on November 15, 2005
I dug it, but more in a theoretical way than a musical way honestly. Come to think of it, that was the last one I bought by them. And "College Radio" is exactly what I meant by them going up their own ass. The only way it could've been more rediculous would've been for each of them to start writing songs about the other guy(s) were moles for the patriarchal fascist system, or something.
Although I suppose the argument could be made that "White American Male '91 (The Truth Hurts) Part 2" - wherein the sole lyrics are "I'm a white guy" over & over - is a blanket statement of self-implication.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:18 PM on November 15, 2005
guy(s) BEING moles. UGH.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:49 PM on November 15, 2005
posted by stinkycheese at 12:49 PM on November 15, 2005
the sole lyrics are "I'm a white guy" over & over - is a blanket statement of self-implication.
or self-hatred. which is a species of self-pity. and of self-abuse. and boring.
posted by jonmc at 1:07 PM on November 15, 2005
or self-hatred. which is a species of self-pity. and of self-abuse. and boring.
posted by jonmc at 1:07 PM on November 15, 2005
Allmusic describes Consolidated as "stridently politically correct dance music." As much as that makes me shudder now, when I was 15 I thought they were pretty awesome. Ah, the early nineties.
On the other hand, I think Billy Bragg's political stuff has aged pretty well. I'm not really a huge fan of the old union standbys, "Which Side Are You On" and the like, but I always liked the way he did them. This was before he got old and started writing songs about his children taking baths.
The only political Steve Earle song I can think of is "Christmastime in Washington." Every time I hear it, it makes me want to stick it to the man, but in a Christlike, acoustic way. What are some others?
posted by 912 Greens at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2005
On the other hand, I think Billy Bragg's political stuff has aged pretty well. I'm not really a huge fan of the old union standbys, "Which Side Are You On" and the like, but I always liked the way he did them. This was before he got old and started writing songs about his children taking baths.
The only political Steve Earle song I can think of is "Christmastime in Washington." Every time I hear it, it makes me want to stick it to the man, but in a Christlike, acoustic way. What are some others?
posted by 912 Greens at 1:36 PM on November 15, 2005
"Good Ol' Boy (Gettin' Tough)"
"The Devil's Right Hand,"
"Snake Oil"
(all of which rock like sunzabitches, too.)
posted by jonmc at 1:49 PM on November 15, 2005
"The Devil's Right Hand,"
"Snake Oil"
(all of which rock like sunzabitches, too.)
posted by jonmc at 1:49 PM on November 15, 2005
jonmc: That was really my point. They went down a blind alley.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:52 PM on November 15, 2005
posted by stinkycheese at 1:52 PM on November 15, 2005
Lyric Links:
Good Old Boy
Snake Oil
Devil's Right Hand.
All three full of clear-eyed vision and anger, but compassion, too. Big influence of my thinking as a teenager.
posted by jonmc at 1:53 PM on November 15, 2005
Good Old Boy
Snake Oil
Devil's Right Hand.
All three full of clear-eyed vision and anger, but compassion, too. Big influence of my thinking as a teenager.
posted by jonmc at 1:53 PM on November 15, 2005
Thanks, jonmc. I'm not sure I've heard those before. I'll check them out.
posted by 912 Greens at 2:37 PM on November 15, 2005
posted by 912 Greens at 2:37 PM on November 15, 2005
Dang. The Cardew links were wasted here?
I think the problem with rock/hiphop/soul/reggae bands being explicitly political is that popular/hummable music styles, like all television, are essentially mind-numbing or escapist (wait a sec, I'm not condemning with these adjectives).
While sometimes long exposure to a performer's "politics" will cause listeners to seek out information and gain awareness, in general, like "anarchists" Chumbawumba (whose lyrics nobody can understand anyway), pop music just makes people dance or revisit nostalgic emotions or get lucky. Which are all fine activities, just not well suited to political thought.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:59 PM on November 15, 2005
I think the problem with rock/hiphop/soul/reggae bands being explicitly political is that popular/hummable music styles, like all television, are essentially mind-numbing or escapist (wait a sec, I'm not condemning with these adjectives).
While sometimes long exposure to a performer's "politics" will cause listeners to seek out information and gain awareness, in general, like "anarchists" Chumbawumba (whose lyrics nobody can understand anyway), pop music just makes people dance or revisit nostalgic emotions or get lucky. Which are all fine activities, just not well suited to political thought.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 3:59 PM on November 15, 2005
politics and popular music don't mix well
Spoken like a complete anus and an inattentive poltroon, sir. Well done! I'd list examples of great political "pop" music but I fear my fingers would start to cramp.
posted by Decani at 4:23 PM on November 15, 2005
Spoken like a complete anus and an inattentive poltroon, sir. Well done! I'd list examples of great political "pop" music but I fear my fingers would start to cramp.
posted by Decani at 4:23 PM on November 15, 2005
The International Noise Conspiracy
Think the eclectic kind of mix in Refused (plus the lead singer) with a jazz influence. Highly recommended.
Mp3's an Lyrics on the site, I suggest taking a listen to Baby Doll (N.e.r.d Cover) if you can.
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 5:30 PM on November 15, 2005
Think the eclectic kind of mix in Refused (plus the lead singer) with a jazz influence. Highly recommended.
Mp3's an Lyrics on the site, I suggest taking a listen to Baby Doll (N.e.r.d Cover) if you can.
posted by Dillonlikescookies at 5:30 PM on November 15, 2005
*blows kisses at Decani*
Goddamn, I always respond so hard to affection. I find it so much more disarming than mere lust.
posted by Decani at 5:52 PM on November 15, 2005
Goddamn, I always respond so hard to affection. I find it so much more disarming than mere lust.
posted by Decani at 5:52 PM on November 15, 2005
Joseph Gurl writes "I think the problem with rock/hiphop/soul/reggae bands being explicitly political" ...
In the case of reggae, its roots are very political.
bardic writes "I see your Consolidated and raise you one Negativeland."
Negativland.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:07 PM on November 15, 2005
In the case of reggae, its roots are very political.
bardic writes "I see your Consolidated and raise you one Negativeland."
Negativland.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:07 PM on November 15, 2005
true about reggae - but I mean for NON-Jamaican listeners. In Jamaica, of course, is a different story - one that I can't write.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:50 PM on November 15, 2005
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:50 PM on November 15, 2005
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The MC5 (house band of the White Panther Party) would be a big exception, but their politics only extended to Dope, Guns, & Fucking In The Street, anyway.
posted by jonmc at 6:45 AM on November 15, 2005