Nanchang driving
December 11, 2005 3:54 PM Subscribe
Road rules [wmv] A birdseye view of an intersection in Nanchang reveals the intricate traffic flow. Keep an eye out for the swarm that builds up on the left-hand side, making a break for it at 2:18 in.
Take a trip to Bangkok if you want to see some serious traffic skills. A chaotic symphony of horns and mass interweaving traffic, apparently without rules, but without incident. Then go to New York city and watch the traffic and driver reactions there. Then, grasshopper, you will understand why the Asian tigers will inherit the Universe.
posted by DirtyCreature at 4:34 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by DirtyCreature at 4:34 PM on December 11, 2005
Commie-kaze driving, am I right?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:44 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:44 PM on December 11, 2005
The problem is that a lot of Asians who have just come over still drive like that here. It creates quite a situation in LA. I have no angst, they just haven't learned our driving laws yet, but sometimes the back-ups get on my nerves.
posted by mystyk at 5:08 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by mystyk at 5:08 PM on December 11, 2005
I go to a school that has a large number of exchange students from Asia (India, China, Japan, Korea). Combine that with the fact that the drivers in my large midwestern city cannot drive either, but for entirely different reasons, and it leads to some pretty crazy incidents.
posted by gagglezoomer at 5:17 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by gagglezoomer at 5:17 PM on December 11, 2005
You're missing the point. These people can drive. Very well in fact. When they get to a new country, they just expect people to be more selfless and respectful of other's needs on the roads as they are where they came from. Bangkok's traffic flow, which is difficult enough as it is, would be several times worse if they tried to impose traffic lights and Western traffic standards.
We Westerners need so many regulations by comparison because we have more defined personal boundaries (read : we are more self-obsessed).
Seeing how things worked in Bangkok traffic really inspired some confidence in the human race for me - that people would live in chaotic but peaceful harmony, respecting each other's needs without being motivated simply by a fear of the consequences.
posted by DirtyCreature at 5:46 PM on December 11, 2005
We Westerners need so many regulations by comparison because we have more defined personal boundaries (read : we are more self-obsessed).
Seeing how things worked in Bangkok traffic really inspired some confidence in the human race for me - that people would live in chaotic but peaceful harmony, respecting each other's needs without being motivated simply by a fear of the consequences.
posted by DirtyCreature at 5:46 PM on December 11, 2005
Upon my arrival in China, while traveling on the highway that connects the airport to the city, I was greeted by the sight of a bus being brutally stopped in the left lane. The driver then proceeded through a three points U turn, drove a 100 yards against traffic (quite light at this our of the night I should say) to catch an exit the driver had missed.
As in any country, the taxi drivers are fairly insane, but I know what they fear the most are the bus drivers, especially the public bus drivers.
Other than that, you see a couple of fender benders here in China, but not has much as you'd expect when you see them drive -- and the cars are relatively ding free too.
Now, car -vs- bicycle, that's a different story. I've seen at least four serious accidents of that nature, just as a bystander. Sometimes violent confrontations between bikers and pedestrians against car driver are quite common these days and have been regularily reported by the Western news.
posted by NewBornHippy at 6:23 PM on December 11, 2005
As in any country, the taxi drivers are fairly insane, but I know what they fear the most are the bus drivers, especially the public bus drivers.
Other than that, you see a couple of fender benders here in China, but not has much as you'd expect when you see them drive -- and the cars are relatively ding free too.
Now, car -vs- bicycle, that's a different story. I've seen at least four serious accidents of that nature, just as a bystander. Sometimes violent confrontations between bikers and pedestrians against car driver are quite common these days and have been regularily reported by the Western news.
posted by NewBornHippy at 6:23 PM on December 11, 2005
Bangkok is a walk in the park compared to some other places in Asia, notably Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh Viet Nam. On a trip where VN that was sandwiched between visits to Thailand, it was staggering to see the difference in traffic conditions.
To a westerner, BK's first impression is chaos and congestion. However, there are still numerous large vehicles (ie at least with four wheels). Whereas VN's streets are crammed with motorbikes, I mean, crammed to overflowing. Except for a few major intersections, there are no functioning traffic lights, so the rules of the cross-road are: Bigger/Faster Goes First. As a pedestrian, we did a lot of patient waiting, and then crossing with slow and deliberate steps (jerky movements risk death). Intersections were continuously bogged down and choked with riders edging along.
Returning to BK was like fresh air. I guess bigger vehicles engender more mutual respect.
The video was fun to watch, I wish I could dig up some photos/videos of VN to post...
posted by placebo_addict at 6:25 PM on December 11, 2005
To a westerner, BK's first impression is chaos and congestion. However, there are still numerous large vehicles (ie at least with four wheels). Whereas VN's streets are crammed with motorbikes, I mean, crammed to overflowing. Except for a few major intersections, there are no functioning traffic lights, so the rules of the cross-road are: Bigger/Faster Goes First. As a pedestrian, we did a lot of patient waiting, and then crossing with slow and deliberate steps (jerky movements risk death). Intersections were continuously bogged down and choked with riders edging along.
Returning to BK was like fresh air. I guess bigger vehicles engender more mutual respect.
The video was fun to watch, I wish I could dig up some photos/videos of VN to post...
posted by placebo_addict at 6:25 PM on December 11, 2005
I saw a Beijing bus driver lean out of his window and apologize to a car driver he'd surprised with a lane change. As crazy and chaotic and rude as the traffic there appears at first, they all do seem to understand what everyone's trying to do. That said, normal Beijing driving behavior would trigger near-instant road-rage in most American cities.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:03 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:03 PM on December 11, 2005
DirtyCreature, I'd like to see some figures on traffic fatalities and collisions New York vs Bangkok before I am even tempted to buy into the idea that Western traffic regulations are an expression of superficial naval-gazing and not a serious attempt to address the public good.
posted by Ritchie at 7:07 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by Ritchie at 7:07 PM on December 11, 2005
The public demands statistics!
posted by Citizen Premier at 7:10 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by Citizen Premier at 7:10 PM on December 11, 2005
Public, your statistics: Hong Kong Transportation Department: Road Traffic Fatality rate in different cities.
No US cities but Canada and W. Europe represented. Bangkok at 118/million/year, Vancouver at 56 (highest measured N. American city).
posted by whatzit at 7:27 PM on December 11, 2005
No US cities but Canada and W. Europe represented. Bangkok at 118/million/year, Vancouver at 56 (highest measured N. American city).
posted by whatzit at 7:27 PM on December 11, 2005
Yee-haw!
I was there in Nanchang in March 2004. Anyone know which intersection this was? What stores or landmarks are nearby?
Yes the driving was scary - but we saw only one accident in our 2 week stay (one week in Nanchang the rest in Beijing and Guanjou - sorry for the spellling).
posted by donkelly at 7:28 PM on December 11, 2005
I was there in Nanchang in March 2004. Anyone know which intersection this was? What stores or landmarks are nearby?
Yes the driving was scary - but we saw only one accident in our 2 week stay (one week in Nanchang the rest in Beijing and Guanjou - sorry for the spellling).
posted by donkelly at 7:28 PM on December 11, 2005
DirtyCreature, I'd like to see some figures on traffic fatalities and collisions New York vs Bangkok before I am even tempted to buy into the idea that Western traffic regulations are an expression of superficial naval-gazing and not a serious attempt to address the public good.
Yes it may be the case that the road fatality rate is much higher per vehicle in Bangkok than NYC. But what I can tell you for sure is that 80% of them in Bangkok are on motorcycles. I would also strongly suggest that if you compared fatality rates per vehicle hour travelled, the picture would be very different.
Finally dear grasshoppers, remember this. In nature's garden, a few weak flowers must wilt, so that the rest can reach their full blossom.
posted by DirtyCreature at 7:39 PM on December 11, 2005
Yes it may be the case that the road fatality rate is much higher per vehicle in Bangkok than NYC. But what I can tell you for sure is that 80% of them in Bangkok are on motorcycles. I would also strongly suggest that if you compared fatality rates per vehicle hour travelled, the picture would be very different.
Finally dear grasshoppers, remember this. In nature's garden, a few weak flowers must wilt, so that the rest can reach their full blossom.
posted by DirtyCreature at 7:39 PM on December 11, 2005
Reminds me of the theory on road design they are working on in Europe. Remove the road signs and people drive more courteously because they don't know what else to do. Article here.
posted by Pink Fuzzy Bunny at 8:12 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by Pink Fuzzy Bunny at 8:12 PM on December 11, 2005
notably Hanoi
man, seriously. i drove a motorbike around for a week there and it was nuts, nuts.. but you learn pretty quickly how to deal with it. you just have to flow and kind of roll with the changes. after you get over the terror it's rather fun - bit like playing a video game!
posted by sergeant sandwich at 8:14 PM on December 11, 2005
man, seriously. i drove a motorbike around for a week there and it was nuts, nuts.. but you learn pretty quickly how to deal with it. you just have to flow and kind of roll with the changes. after you get over the terror it's rather fun - bit like playing a video game!
posted by sergeant sandwich at 8:14 PM on December 11, 2005
But with death!
posted by parallax7d at 8:35 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by parallax7d at 8:35 PM on December 11, 2005
So it seems that such methods of driving are more dangerous, but not as dangerous as it looks.
posted by Citizen Premier at 8:40 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by Citizen Premier at 8:40 PM on December 11, 2005
Reminds me of the theory on road design they are working on in Europe. Remove the road signs and people drive more courteously because they don't know what else to do.
IIRC they are trying that in Amsterdam where there is no way the drivers could drive more rudely or dangerously so it just might work.
posted by fshgrl at 10:10 PM on December 11, 2005
IIRC they are trying that in Amsterdam where there is no way the drivers could drive more rudely or dangerously so it just might work.
posted by fshgrl at 10:10 PM on December 11, 2005
well, that was a bit disappointing. I expected serious traffic chaos. As an Indian in Australia, the orderly traffic here drives me nuts. And the lane system.
posted by dhruva at 11:03 PM on December 11, 2005
posted by dhruva at 11:03 PM on December 11, 2005
Ditto to the traffic in Vietnam. Makes Thailand look downright tame by comparison. What seems to be the #1 highway traffic rule there is: if your vehicle can physically pass the car ahead of you, then pass. Whether or not there's oncoming traffic in the other lane is immaterial. But oddly enough, because everyone essentially plays "chicken" on the highway, drivers are more aware of cars oncoming and pull over to the side without thinking.
And yes, Hanoi. Absolute madness. People park their motorbikes (and there are a lot of them) right on the sidewalks, so pedestrians are forced to walk in the street at times. And same for crossing the street, people simply don't slow down for peds, so you have to make a break for it. I couldn't imagine actually driving in it. I'm still getting used to puttering around in Tokyo on my scooter, which is far more civilized than Hanoi but far nuttier than an American city.
posted by zardoz at 3:43 AM on December 12, 2005
And yes, Hanoi. Absolute madness. People park their motorbikes (and there are a lot of them) right on the sidewalks, so pedestrians are forced to walk in the street at times. And same for crossing the street, people simply don't slow down for peds, so you have to make a break for it. I couldn't imagine actually driving in it. I'm still getting used to puttering around in Tokyo on my scooter, which is far more civilized than Hanoi but far nuttier than an American city.
posted by zardoz at 3:43 AM on December 12, 2005
People park their motorbikes (and there are a lot of them) right on the sidewalks, so pedestrians are forced to walk in the street at times.
Hah. In Beijing, substitute cars for motorbikes. Some of the sidewalks are wide; many aren't.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:07 AM on December 12, 2005
Hah. In Beijing, substitute cars for motorbikes. Some of the sidewalks are wide; many aren't.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:07 AM on December 12, 2005
Bangkok is bad, but I drove there- once you get used to the rules (bigger vehicle wins, whoever hits the guy in front pays) it's pretty easy to figure things out.
China by comparison is nuts, absolutely nuts.
But as bad as it is here, I've heard mythical stories about driving in... India.
posted by jeremyw at 7:13 AM on December 12, 2005
China by comparison is nuts, absolutely nuts.
But as bad as it is here, I've heard mythical stories about driving in... India.
posted by jeremyw at 7:13 AM on December 12, 2005
What, no other survivors of Taipei traffic here? I've never been so scared in my life as trying to cross major intersections there. I'm still surprised I made it home in one piece.
posted by languagehat at 7:27 AM on December 12, 2005
posted by languagehat at 7:27 AM on December 12, 2005
I'm reminded of this passage from Zodiac:
The problem is, if the two drivers at the front of the line aren't sufficiently aggressive, it doesn't matter how tough the people behind them are. The whole avenue will just sit there until it collectively boils over. And horn honking wasn't helping, though a hundred or so motorists were giving it a try.
When I got to Charlesgate West, where Comm Ave was cut off by the torrent pouring down that one-way four-Ianer, I found an underpowered station wagon from Maine at the head of one lane, driven by a mom who was trying to look after four children, and a vintage Mercedes in the other, driven by an old lady who looked like she'd just forgotten her own address. And half a dozen bicyclists, standing there waiting for a real asshole to take charge.
What you have to do is take it one lane at a time. I waited for a twenty-foot gap in traffic on the first lane of Charlesgate and just eased out into it.
The approaching BMW made an abortive swerve toward the next lane, causing a ripple to spread across Charlesgate as everyone for ten cars back tried to head east. Then he throbbed to a halt (computerized antilock braking system) and slumped over on his horn button. The next lane was easy: some Camaro-driving freshman from Jersey made the mistake of slowing down and I seized his lane. The asshole in the BMW tried to cut behind me but half the bicyclists, and the biddy in the Benz, had the presence of mind to lurch out and block his path.
Within ten seconds a huge gap showed up in the third lane, and I ate it up before Camaro could serve over. I ate it up so aggressively that some Clerk Typist II in a Civic slowed down in the fourth lane long enough for me to grab that one. And then the dam broke as the Chadian army mounted a charge and reamed out the intersection. I figured BMW, Camaro, and Civic could shut their engines off and go for a walk.
Pedestrians and winos applauded. A young six-digit lawyer, hardly old enough to shave, cruised up from ten cars back and shouted out his electric sunroof that I really had balls.
I said, "Tell me something I didn't know, you fucking android from Hell."
posted by euphorb at 10:42 AM on December 12, 2005
The problem is, if the two drivers at the front of the line aren't sufficiently aggressive, it doesn't matter how tough the people behind them are. The whole avenue will just sit there until it collectively boils over. And horn honking wasn't helping, though a hundred or so motorists were giving it a try.
When I got to Charlesgate West, where Comm Ave was cut off by the torrent pouring down that one-way four-Ianer, I found an underpowered station wagon from Maine at the head of one lane, driven by a mom who was trying to look after four children, and a vintage Mercedes in the other, driven by an old lady who looked like she'd just forgotten her own address. And half a dozen bicyclists, standing there waiting for a real asshole to take charge.
What you have to do is take it one lane at a time. I waited for a twenty-foot gap in traffic on the first lane of Charlesgate and just eased out into it.
The approaching BMW made an abortive swerve toward the next lane, causing a ripple to spread across Charlesgate as everyone for ten cars back tried to head east. Then he throbbed to a halt (computerized antilock braking system) and slumped over on his horn button. The next lane was easy: some Camaro-driving freshman from Jersey made the mistake of slowing down and I seized his lane. The asshole in the BMW tried to cut behind me but half the bicyclists, and the biddy in the Benz, had the presence of mind to lurch out and block his path.
Within ten seconds a huge gap showed up in the third lane, and I ate it up before Camaro could serve over. I ate it up so aggressively that some Clerk Typist II in a Civic slowed down in the fourth lane long enough for me to grab that one. And then the dam broke as the Chadian army mounted a charge and reamed out the intersection. I figured BMW, Camaro, and Civic could shut their engines off and go for a walk.
Pedestrians and winos applauded. A young six-digit lawyer, hardly old enough to shave, cruised up from ten cars back and shouted out his electric sunroof that I really had balls.
I said, "Tell me something I didn't know, you fucking android from Hell."
posted by euphorb at 10:42 AM on December 12, 2005
When I was in New Delhi, I was struck by how chaotic and dangerous -- and yet ego-free -- the traffic was. Lots of near-misses and horns honking, but always to say "I'm coming, look out, don't hit me" and never to say "f--- you, I'm coming, and you can't stop me" like it is here in the states. At intersections, cars pile up into tight masses where everyone tries to occupy any free space, and at one point our driver reached out and pulled his mirror flat so that someone on a scooter could wedge between his car and the next one over.
Then again, I also saw a driver hit someone on a scooter, who fell over -- the car kept on going, the scooter guy got up, picked up his scooter, and moved along. So I'm not saying I like things better there, just certain aspects of it.
Oh, and as someone who learned to drive in Chicago, who has driven quite a bit in NY and LA, I can say this: I'd rather drive in NY (when it's not jammed), as it's closer to the New Delhi "everyone just goes for space when it appears" approach that requires consciousness...LA is more like a collection of people who aren't paying attention, use their cruise controls when they shouldn't, and trust traffic signals blindly -- so when a small accident happens, it turns into a huge one in almost every case.
Quick LA case in point: the number of drivers plowing into the SIDES of buses in the new valley orange line busway. One woman was quoted in an article saying she thought she was a good, alert and consciencious driver -- but then said she "never would have noticed" a new traffic light for the busway. I drove by there a few days later, and between the lights, signs and other hoo-hah, I can honestly say her self-assessment sucked. Heh.
Oh, and I'm regularly -- REGULARLY -- encountering people who choose to change lanes into mine just as I'm passing them on the freeway, and who keep coming even when I lay on the horn and swerve into another lane...then finally notice once they're already in the new lane (and I'm on the shoulder or the adjacent lane) and swerve back.
Sorry, didn't want to make this an I-Hate-LA rant.
posted by davejay at 1:19 PM on December 12, 2005
Then again, I also saw a driver hit someone on a scooter, who fell over -- the car kept on going, the scooter guy got up, picked up his scooter, and moved along. So I'm not saying I like things better there, just certain aspects of it.
Oh, and as someone who learned to drive in Chicago, who has driven quite a bit in NY and LA, I can say this: I'd rather drive in NY (when it's not jammed), as it's closer to the New Delhi "everyone just goes for space when it appears" approach that requires consciousness...LA is more like a collection of people who aren't paying attention, use their cruise controls when they shouldn't, and trust traffic signals blindly -- so when a small accident happens, it turns into a huge one in almost every case.
Quick LA case in point: the number of drivers plowing into the SIDES of buses in the new valley orange line busway. One woman was quoted in an article saying she thought she was a good, alert and consciencious driver -- but then said she "never would have noticed" a new traffic light for the busway. I drove by there a few days later, and between the lights, signs and other hoo-hah, I can honestly say her self-assessment sucked. Heh.
Oh, and I'm regularly -- REGULARLY -- encountering people who choose to change lanes into mine just as I'm passing them on the freeway, and who keep coming even when I lay on the horn and swerve into another lane...then finally notice once they're already in the new lane (and I'm on the shoulder or the adjacent lane) and swerve back.
Sorry, didn't want to make this an I-Hate-LA rant.
posted by davejay at 1:19 PM on December 12, 2005
« Older Neti Pots | Internet love, Japanese style Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by parallax7d at 4:21 PM on December 11, 2005