Hollywood's Newest Museum [sic]
December 27, 2005 4:46 PM Subscribe
Psychiatry: an Industry of Death. That's the name of Hollywood's newest museum, kicked off in style by Lisa Marie Presley, Priscilla Presley, Giovanni Ribisi, Jenna Elfman and other celebs. It's sponsored by the Citizens Commission on Human Rights, a "psychiatric watchdog group" sponsored by guess who.
This is very funny. I want to see debates on national television about this! This would get me to buy a tv!
posted by ParisParamus at 5:01 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 5:01 PM on December 27, 2005
Xenu.net afaik is the best site debunking scientology quackery and illusions.
posted by elpapacito at 5:06 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by elpapacito at 5:06 PM on December 27, 2005
And yet, I bet if the Psychiatric industry responded with a museum called "Scientology : Religion or Cult?" they'd be facing a multi-million suit faster than they can pronounce "Tom Cruise Knows Nothing About Psychiatry" :)
posted by kaemaril at 5:10 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by kaemaril at 5:10 PM on December 27, 2005
Bring me a celebrity, and I can tell you if they are into Scientology. Some people have gaydar; I have scientologyar.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:10 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 5:10 PM on December 27, 2005
Actress Anne Archer delivers the startling news that at least 100,000 electroshocks are administered annually. The CCHR press release further informs that "psychiatrists kill up to 10,000 people" annually with their use of electroshock, which works out to one in ten.
posted by docgonzo at 5:11 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by docgonzo at 5:11 PM on December 27, 2005
That's pretty harsh. It takes me almost three years to kill that many people.
posted by chicobangs at 5:15 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by chicobangs at 5:15 PM on December 27, 2005
hey'd be facing a multi-million suit faster than they can pronounce "Tom Cruise Knows Nothing About Psychiatry" :)
Yeah likely , know why ? Probably Scientology is a Trade Mark and god forbid don't ever try to have opinion about a trademark that isn't appreciated, it's like saying God sucks in front of the Spanish Inquistiion..except we're in the year 2k (even if we're backpedaling into victorian age, thank you capitalism !)
posted by elpapacito at 5:17 PM on December 27, 2005
Yeah likely , know why ? Probably Scientology is a Trade Mark and god forbid don't ever try to have opinion about a trademark that isn't appreciated, it's like saying God sucks in front of the Spanish Inquistiion..except we're in the year 2k (even if we're backpedaling into victorian age, thank you capitalism !)
posted by elpapacito at 5:17 PM on December 27, 2005
Xenu ate yer balls ?
modernerd: +10 cluepoint for using Dogbert.
posted by elpapacito at 5:19 PM on December 27, 2005
modernerd: +10 cluepoint for using Dogbert.
posted by elpapacito at 5:19 PM on December 27, 2005
Actually, you should fee free to disparage scientology. Sounds like a fun pastime to me. They can't pretend that it's not just a business, and then act like it's a business in court.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:20 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 5:20 PM on December 27, 2005
Paris: It could be a fun pastime, yet Scientology disagrees vehemently sends cease and desist and chooses to mount a mountain of legal action
It appears one has got a right to free speech but not a right not to be chilled into silence by scare/damage tactics.
on preview : edgeways : and then he ate him ?
posted by elpapacito at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2005
It appears one has got a right to free speech but not a right not to be chilled into silence by scare/damage tactics.
on preview : edgeways : and then he ate him ?
posted by elpapacito at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2005
Since it is impossible to have a serious conversation about this, can we just make fun of Tom Cruise?
posted by HuronBob at 5:38 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by HuronBob at 5:38 PM on December 27, 2005
or l ron hubbard, has anyone read any of his sci fi and liked it?
posted by Max Power at 5:41 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by Max Power at 5:41 PM on December 27, 2005
Really, so what? Sure, Scientology is idiotic, but so are the Judeo-Christian-Islamic alternatives. And there's something refreshing about a religion actually opening a voluntary place to go to hear their arguments instead of, say, coming to your door or printing God all over the currency or forcing public schools to teach their religious views. The refreshing part being that I can just not go to said place.
posted by boaz at 5:43 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by boaz at 5:43 PM on December 27, 2005
And there's something refreshing about a religion actually opening a voluntary place to go to hear their arguments
You mean...like a church?
posted by Jimbob at 5:45 PM on December 27, 2005
You mean...like a church?
posted by Jimbob at 5:45 PM on December 27, 2005
All that subliminal shit might make you an involuntary christian, eh boaz?
posted by Eekacat at 5:48 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by Eekacat at 5:48 PM on December 27, 2005
ParisParamustology!
Scientologaramus!
Parisciencetology!
Come and get me!
posted by ParisParamus at 6:03 PM on December 27, 2005
Scientologaramus!
Parisciencetology!
Come and get me!
posted by ParisParamus at 6:03 PM on December 27, 2005
can we just make fun of Tom Cruise?
What, you need to ask permission now? What a world, what a world .... :)
posted by kaemaril at 6:07 PM on December 27, 2005
What, you need to ask permission now? What a world, what a world .... :)
posted by kaemaril at 6:07 PM on December 27, 2005
It's kinda a depressing thing when you find out an actor you (used to) like is a Scientologist.
posted by xmutex at 6:14 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by xmutex at 6:14 PM on December 27, 2005
Is John Travolta any less disturbing a role model for Scientology than Cruise? In fact, show me an actor or actress that gives me the creeps, and I will probably be showing you a Scientologist
posted by ParisParamus at 6:16 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 6:16 PM on December 27, 2005
C'mon, PP, dish! We already know about Giovanni and Jenna and Lisa Marie and Beck *sob* and that Fat Actress chick, and I doubt there's anyone on the planet within CRT range who doesn't know about Tom. Please use your powers of ClearDar to enlighten us all and reveal the identities of less out-there Scientoligers!
I know said you had "Scientologydar" but that's just insufferably lame and ClearDar is my suggested substitute. Anyone with a better label, please chime in.
posted by vetiver at 6:27 PM on December 27, 2005
I know said you had "Scientologydar" but that's just insufferably lame and ClearDar is my suggested substitute. Anyone with a better label, please chime in.
posted by vetiver at 6:27 PM on December 27, 2005
That Anne Archer quote is fucking infuriating: for people with long term debilitating depression that is unresponsive to all other treatments, ECT (electroconvulsive therapy) can be effective, especially in the elderly.
I get completely fucking apoplectic when I read their idiotic asinine lies. People DIE from depression -- if it doesn't make you kill yourself quickly, then you do it slowly through addiction or lack of self-care or some other way.
I'm sorry but this is just such bullshit. And what makes it worse is Jenna Elfman is really hot and I've had a crush on her forever. That's just...wrong.
posted by ltracey at 6:27 PM on December 27, 2005
I get completely fucking apoplectic when I read their idiotic asinine lies. People DIE from depression -- if it doesn't make you kill yourself quickly, then you do it slowly through addiction or lack of self-care or some other way.
I'm sorry but this is just such bullshit. And what makes it worse is Jenna Elfman is really hot and I've had a crush on her forever. That's just...wrong.
posted by ltracey at 6:27 PM on December 27, 2005
Sure, Scientology is idiotic, but so are the Judeo-Christian-Islamic alternatives.
I firmly believe everyone has the right to worship the deity/ practice/ small dog they choose.
I also firmly believe there is a difference between a religion and a cult/scam.
posted by docgonzo at 6:28 PM on December 27, 2005
I firmly believe everyone has the right to worship the deity/ practice/ small dog they choose.
I also firmly believe there is a difference between a religion and a cult/scam.
posted by docgonzo at 6:28 PM on December 27, 2005
You mean...like a church?
Yep, it's exactly like a church. I'll be sure to keep MeFi abreast next time one of those conniving Christians has the nerve to open a church.
All that subliminal shit might make you an involuntary christian, eh boaz?
Not me personally, but ... <Mrs. Lovejoy>won't somebody please think of the children?!</Mrs. Lovejoy> ;)
posted by boaz at 6:30 PM on December 27, 2005
Yep, it's exactly like a church. I'll be sure to keep MeFi abreast next time one of those conniving Christians has the nerve to open a church.
All that subliminal shit might make you an involuntary christian, eh boaz?
Not me personally, but ... <Mrs. Lovejoy>won't somebody please think of the children?!</Mrs. Lovejoy> ;)
posted by boaz at 6:30 PM on December 27, 2005
vetiver, the idea was to infringe upon their stupid trademark as aggregiously as possible.
Partially, no doubt, because of LRH, I don't have a television, so I can't really conjure up that many celebs.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:31 PM on December 27, 2005
Partially, no doubt, because of LRH, I don't have a television, so I can't really conjure up that many celebs.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:31 PM on December 27, 2005
Maybe they need to teach scientology alongside more standard "theories" in psychology classes...after all, no-one can "prove" psychology is right.
*ducks*
posted by freebird at 6:32 PM on December 27, 2005
*ducks*
posted by freebird at 6:32 PM on December 27, 2005
freebird, that is beautiful!
posted by ParisParamus at 6:33 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 6:33 PM on December 27, 2005
People, people, you don't even — you're glib. You don't even know what Ritalin is. If you start talking about chemical imbalance, you have to evaluate and read the research papers on how they came up with these theories, Metafilter, OK. That's what I've done.
posted by maxsparber at 6:33 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by maxsparber at 6:33 PM on December 27, 2005
In fact, show me an actor or actress that gives me the creeps, and I will probably be showing you a Scientologist
I was going to ask "but what about [insert scientology celebrity that I didn't think was creepy]?", but then I checked some pictures of the celebrities I was going to ask about, and I've concluded that, you're right-- actors and actresses in scientology have a creepy look about them.
posted by deanc at 6:34 PM on December 27, 2005
I was going to ask "but what about [insert scientology celebrity that I didn't think was creepy]?", but then I checked some pictures of the celebrities I was going to ask about, and I've concluded that, you're right-- actors and actresses in scientology have a creepy look about them.
posted by deanc at 6:34 PM on December 27, 2005
^z ^z ^z ok, sorry. I tend to try to see all sides, and never troll. That was intended as a joke, but came out a straight-up troll.
posted by freebird at 6:35 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by freebird at 6:35 PM on December 27, 2005
No, its not a look' it's a personality vibe. Most tragically, I think Scientology is the effect, rather than the cause. Travolta creeped me out on Welcome Back Kotter in 1975.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:42 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 6:42 PM on December 27, 2005
That will teach those doctors to disparage the scientific basis of e-meters.
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:42 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by StickyCarpet at 6:42 PM on December 27, 2005
Beck is a scientologist?! Say it ain't so! *sob*
What a sad state of affairs. The history of psychology/psychiatry isn't pretty, but it's far from the scam that scientology is. Of course, to anybody who has taken a uni-level psychology 101 course, the lies of these "exhibits" will be quite obvious.
posted by somethingotherthan at 6:43 PM on December 27, 2005
What a sad state of affairs. The history of psychology/psychiatry isn't pretty, but it's far from the scam that scientology is. Of course, to anybody who has taken a uni-level psychology 101 course, the lies of these "exhibits" will be quite obvious.
posted by somethingotherthan at 6:43 PM on December 27, 2005
Sometimes, when My Name is Earl is especially funny, I forget that Jason Lee is a Scientologist for one brief shining moment. Then, when the laughter dies down, I remember and mourn all over again.
posted by jrossi4r at 6:45 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by jrossi4r at 6:45 PM on December 27, 2005
Has anyone actually visited the museum yet?
I am intrigued but don't think I'll dare step foot in there due to the overwhelming amount of propaganda I know I would be subjected to. Not that I am impressionable, just not interested in thwarting off the misguided attempts at indoctrination that a visit there would entail.
Still, I am curious about the museum itself, I hear it's done up pretty cool. It sure draws the eye from the outside with it's striking graphics, garish pronouncements of psychology equaling death and expertly placed flood lights, etc... We drove past it the other day not knowing what it was and were immediately interested, and suspicious.
posted by RoseovSharon at 6:45 PM on December 27, 2005
I am intrigued but don't think I'll dare step foot in there due to the overwhelming amount of propaganda I know I would be subjected to. Not that I am impressionable, just not interested in thwarting off the misguided attempts at indoctrination that a visit there would entail.
Still, I am curious about the museum itself, I hear it's done up pretty cool. It sure draws the eye from the outside with it's striking graphics, garish pronouncements of psychology equaling death and expertly placed flood lights, etc... We drove past it the other day not knowing what it was and were immediately interested, and suspicious.
posted by RoseovSharon at 6:45 PM on December 27, 2005
I don't think Jason Lee or Beck actually are Scientologists.
posted by maxsparber at 6:49 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by maxsparber at 6:49 PM on December 27, 2005
Beck is actually a second generation Scientologist married to another second generation Scientologist. And Jason Lee is definitely on the rolls.
posted by jrossi4r at 6:51 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by jrossi4r at 6:51 PM on December 27, 2005
Anne Archer's career could use some electroshock therapy. Or a defibrillator.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:52 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 6:52 PM on December 27, 2005
The most amusing part of all this is that scientologists use precepts of behaviorism and other parts of "psych", just co-opted for their own purposes. I don't understand how an organization can speak with one mouth about how great something is and speak with the other about how terrible it is.
Oh, wait, sure I can. This is the religion brought to you by Battlefield Earth, what *couldn't* I believe?
posted by leffler at 7:02 PM on December 27, 2005
Oh, wait, sure I can. This is the religion brought to you by Battlefield Earth, what *couldn't* I believe?
posted by leffler at 7:02 PM on December 27, 2005
And what makes it worse is Jenna Elfman is really hot and I've had a crush on her forever.
No she is not hot. Or ... maybe hot from only the precise angle that exposes nipple erections but not her stray-dog rib cage. Elfmans is essentially a buck-tooth B-list porn star without the integrity to actually do nudity or penetration and she is one tube of Aveeno away from looking like one of them dehydrated carved apple puppets my grandma made in the old-folks craft class.
Hubbards Sci-fi is excellent...
...to wipe your ass with when you have exhausted Ben Bova novels.
posted by tkchrist at 7:18 PM on December 27, 2005
No she is not hot. Or ... maybe hot from only the precise angle that exposes nipple erections but not her stray-dog rib cage. Elfmans is essentially a buck-tooth B-list porn star without the integrity to actually do nudity or penetration and she is one tube of Aveeno away from looking like one of them dehydrated carved apple puppets my grandma made in the old-folks craft class.
Hubbards Sci-fi is excellent...
...to wipe your ass with when you have exhausted Ben Bova novels.
posted by tkchrist at 7:18 PM on December 27, 2005
No way is Greta Van Sustern a Scientologist.
Saddens me that Oliver Stone and Seinfeld were once Scientologists.
posted by xmutex at 7:24 PM on December 27, 2005
Saddens me that Oliver Stone and Seinfeld were once Scientologists.
posted by xmutex at 7:24 PM on December 27, 2005
You don't even know what Ritalin is.
Pharmaceutical cocaine, more or less, is it not?
posted by kowalski at 7:27 PM on December 27, 2005
Pharmaceutical cocaine, more or less, is it not?
posted by kowalski at 7:27 PM on December 27, 2005
I guess you do know.
posted by maxsparber at 7:31 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by maxsparber at 7:31 PM on December 27, 2005
OK, all actors recognized on that list are creepy. Theory holds!
posted by ParisParamus at 7:35 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 7:35 PM on December 27, 2005
Pharmaceutical crystal meth, not pharmaceutical cocaine.
Although Adderal is a better fit. Ritalin is just a pseudo amphetamine whereas Adderal is the real deal.
posted by Justinian at 7:35 PM on December 27, 2005
Although Adderal is a better fit. Ritalin is just a pseudo amphetamine whereas Adderal is the real deal.
posted by Justinian at 7:35 PM on December 27, 2005
I also firmly believe there is a difference between a religion and a cult/scam.
the sad reality is there is absolutely no way to distinguish between the two. in fact, you quite could be in line to universal fame and fortune if you could only just lucidly elaborate and perhaps qualify on just that one particular point. the motivation has been there for eons but for some reason no one ever seems able. it's a very simple challenge: offer a rational explaination as to what makes religion any different from a cult/scam you will be a very rich person indeed.
posted by rodney stewart at 7:44 PM on December 27, 2005
the sad reality is there is absolutely no way to distinguish between the two. in fact, you quite could be in line to universal fame and fortune if you could only just lucidly elaborate and perhaps qualify on just that one particular point. the motivation has been there for eons but for some reason no one ever seems able. it's a very simple challenge: offer a rational explaination as to what makes religion any different from a cult/scam you will be a very rich person indeed.
posted by rodney stewart at 7:44 PM on December 27, 2005
How about prices for admission and trademark BS.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:55 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 7:55 PM on December 27, 2005
can we just make fun of Tom Cruise?
Tom, come out of the closet! (Watch clips at Comedy Central -- Motherlode)
posted by ericb at 7:55 PM on December 27, 2005
Tom, come out of the closet! (Watch clips at Comedy Central -- Motherlode)
posted by ericb at 7:55 PM on December 27, 2005
offer a rational explaination as to what makes religion any different from a cult/scam you will be a very rich person indeed.
Religions are older?
Now where's my damn money?!?
posted by ladd at 7:57 PM on December 27, 2005
Religions are older?
Now where's my damn money?!?
posted by ladd at 7:57 PM on December 27, 2005
Religions are older?
Indeed. The early days of the LDS church (Mormons to you) are skeezy in the extreme. Hard to find a more squeaky clean bunch of folks today.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:19 PM on December 27, 2005
Indeed. The early days of the LDS church (Mormons to you) are skeezy in the extreme. Hard to find a more squeaky clean bunch of folks today.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:19 PM on December 27, 2005
PP, once again you disappoint. And you meant "egregiously."
RoseovSharon, your reaction parallels mine. I'm fascinated, in a train-wreck sense, and don't really want an up-close look.
I'm wondering, what do they think they're going to accomplish? It's such obvious bullshit, why should they want to flash it around? And then I start to think about how Christianity started... or LDS, for that matter. And now I think I'll go see if there's another beer in the fridge.
posted by vetiver at 8:26 PM on December 27, 2005
RoseovSharon, your reaction parallels mine. I'm fascinated, in a train-wreck sense, and don't really want an up-close look.
I'm wondering, what do they think they're going to accomplish? It's such obvious bullshit, why should they want to flash it around? And then I start to think about how Christianity started... or LDS, for that matter. And now I think I'll go see if there's another beer in the fridge.
posted by vetiver at 8:26 PM on December 27, 2005
HTuttle, I had a cognitive spelling lapse. How have I disappointed this time, pray, tell....
posted by ParisParamus at 8:36 PM on December 27, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 8:36 PM on December 27, 2005
I loved this part of the article:
posted by boaz at 8:38 PM on December 27, 2005
you still run the risk of having one of the 10 to 25 percent of psychiatrists that sexually assault their patients (unsubstantiated figures courtesy CCHR). [emphasis mine]O RLY?
posted by boaz at 8:38 PM on December 27, 2005
Hard to find a more squeaky clean bunch of folks today.
Well, except for the polygamous, incestuous, child-molesting folks at Bountiful, of course.
posted by Hildegarde at 8:47 PM on December 27, 2005
Well, except for the polygamous, incestuous, child-molesting folks at Bountiful, of course.
posted by Hildegarde at 8:47 PM on December 27, 2005
if i ever visit this museum i will bring a large can of paint and a large chunk of dry ice. i will leave them next to a zip-lock bag with the latest journal of neuropsychology next to it, then i will set up a lawchair across the street and watch the shenanigans.
...hate l. ron hubbard.
posted by Doorstop at 8:49 PM on December 27, 2005
...hate l. ron hubbard.
posted by Doorstop at 8:49 PM on December 27, 2005
Scientology might sue everybody and her dog, they sometimes lose those lawsuits.
[I'm one of the people that has the Fishman Affidavit on his website, but instead of suing me, $cientology sued my provider, together with 9 other providers and one person. After a ten year long legal battle they lost their case, even at the Supreme Court of the Netherlands. Yay!]
posted by kika at 8:58 PM on December 27, 2005
[I'm one of the people that has the Fishman Affidavit on his website, but instead of suing me, $cientology sued my provider, together with 9 other providers and one person. After a ten year long legal battle they lost their case, even at the Supreme Court of the Netherlands. Yay!]
posted by kika at 8:58 PM on December 27, 2005
Some of the others seem obvious, but Jason Lee shocked me. He seems so...cool. And these guys know how to network. He's buddies with Beck and Giovanni. And I guess he did Vanilla Sky with good old Tom Cruise.
Hm...six degrees of scientology.
And if you're ever visiting Hollywood, I'd highly recommend stopping by and taking their "test". Purely for touristic reasons, of course. It's all quite amusing.
posted by sacrilicious at 9:46 PM on December 27, 2005
Hm...six degrees of scientology.
And if you're ever visiting Hollywood, I'd highly recommend stopping by and taking their "test". Purely for touristic reasons, of course. It's all quite amusing.
posted by sacrilicious at 9:46 PM on December 27, 2005
10 to 25 percent of psychiatrists that sexually assault their patients
I'm obviously in the wrong line of work.
posted by chicobangs at 9:54 PM on December 27, 2005
I'm obviously in the wrong line of work.
posted by chicobangs at 9:54 PM on December 27, 2005
Jason Lee is a frigging Scientologist? Say it ain't so.
This "museum" opened up the weekend before last. I was driving down Sunset that Saturday, and the city had multiple lanes closed off and cops everywhere. The whole thing was pretty creepy, especially when one factored in the bizarre and grim posters on the front of the building (one of which featured a cherubic little girl presumably standing in line to receive psych meds). I don't live very far away, so if I have time tomorrow I'll swing by and take some pictures of the exterior (but I won't go inside on a bet).
posted by the_bone at 10:39 PM on December 27, 2005
This "museum" opened up the weekend before last. I was driving down Sunset that Saturday, and the city had multiple lanes closed off and cops everywhere. The whole thing was pretty creepy, especially when one factored in the bizarre and grim posters on the front of the building (one of which featured a cherubic little girl presumably standing in line to receive psych meds). I don't live very far away, so if I have time tomorrow I'll swing by and take some pictures of the exterior (but I won't go inside on a bet).
posted by the_bone at 10:39 PM on December 27, 2005
Hubbards Sci-fi is excellent...
Hubbard's life is excellent science fiction, his actual writing, on the other hand, sucks. Read about the weird crap he was up to with Jack Parsons, it's much more interesting than anything he actually wrote.
posted by doctor_negative at 10:55 PM on December 27, 2005
Hubbard's life is excellent science fiction, his actual writing, on the other hand, sucks. Read about the weird crap he was up to with Jack Parsons, it's much more interesting than anything he actually wrote.
posted by doctor_negative at 10:55 PM on December 27, 2005
I think I like (actor) Mike Farrell very much:
In the last few months Farrell has gotten numerous strange phone calls, one telling him (falsely, as it turned out) that an old friend had died. There have been so many that now when he gets calls after midnight at his home, he answers, "Hubbard was crazy." Sometimes, he says, there's a long silence before the caller hangs up.
From here
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:06 PM on December 27, 2005
In the last few months Farrell has gotten numerous strange phone calls, one telling him (falsely, as it turned out) that an old friend had died. There have been so many that now when he gets calls after midnight at his home, he answers, "Hubbard was crazy." Sometimes, he says, there's a long silence before the caller hangs up.
From here
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:06 PM on December 27, 2005
I know said you had "Scientologydar" but that's just insufferably lame and ClearDar is my suggested substitute. Anyone with a better label, please chime in.
LRonHubbardar?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:54 PM on December 27, 2005
LRonHubbardar?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:54 PM on December 27, 2005
I always seek medical advice from people in show business. They obviously know things no one else knows.
posted by clevershark at 12:10 AM on December 28, 2005
posted by clevershark at 12:10 AM on December 28, 2005
Here's a partial list of creeps.
Here's an even more interesting partial list of ex-creeps.
posted by Afroblanco at 12:54 AM on December 28, 2005
Here's an even more interesting partial list of ex-creeps.
posted by Afroblanco at 12:54 AM on December 28, 2005
tkchrist, the "buck-tooth B-list porn star" bit made me do the coffee-out-the-nose-thing and your take on my namesake's fiction is spot on perfect.
As far as the psychiatric opinions of Jenna Elfman (and the other "celebrities") are concerned, this picture sums it up nicely.
And as for religion in general, its hard to beat George Carlin's take on the whole industry.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 5:02 AM on December 28, 2005
As far as the psychiatric opinions of Jenna Elfman (and the other "celebrities") are concerned, this picture sums it up nicely.
And as for religion in general, its hard to beat George Carlin's take on the whole industry.
posted by Enron Hubbard at 5:02 AM on December 28, 2005
What if, and I know this is going to come as a shocker, religion and psychiatry are EQUALLY BAD?
I know, hard to fathom. One group makes up stuff and lies, while the other group... oh wait.
Okay. So one group tells you you'll be happy after you die so you can endure a miserable subservient life while the other gives your kids pharmaceutical cocaine to "help them". Oh. Okay.
Yeah. Let them fight among themselves. Encourage it. I know you want to hear your magic phrase, so here it is: It's for your own good.
posted by ewkpates at 5:16 AM on December 28, 2005
I know, hard to fathom. One group makes up stuff and lies, while the other group... oh wait.
Okay. So one group tells you you'll be happy after you die so you can endure a miserable subservient life while the other gives your kids pharmaceutical cocaine to "help them". Oh. Okay.
Yeah. Let them fight among themselves. Encourage it. I know you want to hear your magic phrase, so here it is: It's for your own good.
posted by ewkpates at 5:16 AM on December 28, 2005
rodney stewart : the sad reality is there is absolutely no way to distinguish between [religion and cult]
Who cares, anyway? Any casuist could argue that Christianity is a cult and Scientology is a religion, but the important question is which is more dangerous to its members?.
To this end, I offer The Advanced Bonewits’ Cult Danger Evaluation Frame (without irony).
posted by Ritchie at 6:05 AM on December 28, 2005
Who cares, anyway? Any casuist could argue that Christianity is a cult and Scientology is a religion, but the important question is which is more dangerous to its members?.
To this end, I offer The Advanced Bonewits’ Cult Danger Evaluation Frame (without irony).
posted by Ritchie at 6:05 AM on December 28, 2005
As far as the psychiatric opinions of Jenna Elfman (and the other "celebrities") are concerned, this picture sums it up nicely.
Yeah, Jenna's nuts. But she's really hot which makes up for a lot.
posted by jonmc at 7:40 AM on December 28, 2005
Yeah, Jenna's nuts. But she's really hot which makes up for a lot.
posted by jonmc at 7:40 AM on December 28, 2005
Ritchie, I would say without hesitation that people who consider themselves Christian have caused me and my country far more harm because of their religion than people who consider themselves Scientologists. Far more harm. Whether Christianity or Scientology is more harmful to its own members is beside the point for me; I know which is more harmful to me and society.
posted by Justinian at 7:40 AM on December 28, 2005
posted by Justinian at 7:40 AM on December 28, 2005
boaz: Yep, it's exactly like a church.Yes, it's exactly like a church, if by "church" you mean "place where people present outrageous and dangerous lies as scientifically-verifiable truth while denying any religious intent."
posted by lodurr at 8:34 AM on December 28, 2005
Yeah, Ritchie, I've seen "cult indicator tests" like those before and yes, they are generally accurate. Obviously there will be some overlap (Grimness: Scientologists don't joke about L. Ron Hubbard, but then neither do Christians go for Jesus jokes...at least not most of them. Although their is a Christian satire magazine put out by Christians....The Back Door or something?)
As far as whcih is more damaging to society...well, sure you could argrue Christianity is, but that's just because they're so big. Imagine 200,000,000 Scientologists...
posted by kozad at 8:35 AM on December 28, 2005
As far as whcih is more damaging to society...well, sure you could argrue Christianity is, but that's just because they're so big. Imagine 200,000,000 Scientologists...
posted by kozad at 8:35 AM on December 28, 2005
Hildegarde: Well, except for the polygamous, incestuous, child-molesting folks at Bountiful, of course.True enough, but aren't they repudiated by the mainstream? I seem to recall they aren't actually regarded as "Mormon" by the Elders. Anyway, as uncomfortable as I find it to deal with fundamentalists in general, I've always had good luck in business dealings with Mormons. For whatever that's worth.
posted by lodurr at 8:40 AM on December 28, 2005
Some of the others seem obvious, but Jason Lee shocked me. He seems so...cool. And these guys know how to network. He's buddies with Beck and Giovanni. And I guess he did Vanilla Sky with good old Tom Cruise.
Hm...six degrees of scientology.
posted by sacrilicious at 12:46 AM EST on December 28
I think they are paying these guys. I think Giovanni pulled Jason aside one day and saod, "Dude, let me tell you how you can make $5 million a year. You wouldn't believe how easy it is."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:47 AM on December 28, 2005
Hm...six degrees of scientology.
posted by sacrilicious at 12:46 AM EST on December 28
I think they are paying these guys. I think Giovanni pulled Jason aside one day and saod, "Dude, let me tell you how you can make $5 million a year. You wouldn't believe how easy it is."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 8:47 AM on December 28, 2005
Wow, you had to add a bunch of clauses there, lodurr. I suppose if I had said 'a synagogue is just like a church', I would have got
posted by boaz at 8:50 AM on December 28, 2005
if by "church" you mean "place where people present outrageous and dangerous lies as faith-verifiable truth with an overtly religious intent On Saturday."In the future though, try to figure out for yourself which similarities are relevant (i.e. the outrageous and dangerous lies) and which differences are not (i.e. whether the display is overtly religious).
posted by boaz at 8:50 AM on December 28, 2005
Way to willfully miss the point, boaz. So since you insist on conflating Scientology "museums" with Christian churges and Jewish synagogues, I'll make it painfully clear what the problem is with that conflation:
A Scientology "museum" is a place where people present outrageous and dangerous lies as faith-verifiable truth while denying religious intent. That what they are presenting is lies is objectively verifiable, using the standards to which they claim to adhere.
A church is a place where people present explicitly religious content, with an explicitly religious intent. They are not "lying", because they aren't (unless they're Creationists or Biblical Literalists, which are actually fairly rare) making scientific claims that can be found to be false on the terms they claim to accept.
There are lots of other differences between a church and a Scientology Museum, too. For example, churches (including Scientology churches) are places where the faithful gather to worship in fellowship; a Scientology museum is a place intended to dispense propaganda and win converts.
Certainly there are similar Catholic (or Mormon or Baptist) museums. I'd never say there weren't. But those are also different from churches.
Interesting moniker, by the way. Though I think Boaz would have engaged a little more nuanced view of the difference between a propaganda center and a church.
posted by lodurr at 9:08 AM on December 28, 2005
A Scientology "museum" is a place where people present outrageous and dangerous lies as faith-verifiable truth while denying religious intent. That what they are presenting is lies is objectively verifiable, using the standards to which they claim to adhere.
A church is a place where people present explicitly religious content, with an explicitly religious intent. They are not "lying", because they aren't (unless they're Creationists or Biblical Literalists, which are actually fairly rare) making scientific claims that can be found to be false on the terms they claim to accept.
There are lots of other differences between a church and a Scientology Museum, too. For example, churches (including Scientology churches) are places where the faithful gather to worship in fellowship; a Scientology museum is a place intended to dispense propaganda and win converts.
Certainly there are similar Catholic (or Mormon or Baptist) museums. I'd never say there weren't. But those are also different from churches.
Interesting moniker, by the way. Though I think Boaz would have engaged a little more nuanced view of the difference between a propaganda center and a church.
posted by lodurr at 9:08 AM on December 28, 2005
You know, lodurr, that churches try to convince people that Jesus in reality came back from the dead, and that in reality there's a big guy in charge, and that in reality you go to heaven when you die, right? And you realize those are all lies, right? Not 'religious content', unless by religious content you mean lies.
I could go on about how you should consider the probable attendance of said museum as compared to a church and what percentage would constitute believers going to find fellowship versus propagandized non-believers. Or showing stats about how many people do believe in the literal truth of various Judeo-Christian lies (big hint: it's not rare, nosiree). However, since you've failed to even grasp that boaz might be my actual name rather than my 'moniker', a fact which I've helpfully provided on my user page*, I'm rather unconvinced of your ability to grasp those subtleties.
* And yes, that was there before this post.
posted by boaz at 9:37 AM on December 28, 2005
I could go on about how you should consider the probable attendance of said museum as compared to a church and what percentage would constitute believers going to find fellowship versus propagandized non-believers. Or showing stats about how many people do believe in the literal truth of various Judeo-Christian lies (big hint: it's not rare, nosiree). However, since you've failed to even grasp that boaz might be my actual name rather than my 'moniker', a fact which I've helpfully provided on my user page*, I'm rather unconvinced of your ability to grasp those subtleties.
* And yes, that was there before this post.
posted by boaz at 9:37 AM on December 28, 2005
anyone here like Scientology? Someone must...
posted by ParisParamus at 9:48 AM on December 28, 2005
posted by ParisParamus at 9:48 AM on December 28, 2005
anyone here like Scientology?
Not I, but it sure pisses off the right people. I guess some people really think it's important whether a religion is based on a bad fantasy novel or a bad sci-fi novel.
posted by boaz at 9:54 AM on December 28, 2005
Not I, but it sure pisses off the right people. I guess some people really think it's important whether a religion is based on a bad fantasy novel or a bad sci-fi novel.
posted by boaz at 9:54 AM on December 28, 2005
I am actually surprised at how few scientologists there are on the internet - barring people occasionally bashing heads on dedicated anti-C.o.S. websites. I have never been on a single web forum where someone self-identifies as one of the credulous fools that believe in thetans and as a whole the internet seems to be almost universally hostile to scientology.
Is there some sort of control that the C.o.S. has upon it's members internet access?
posted by longbaugh at 10:57 AM on December 28, 2005
Is there some sort of control that the C.o.S. has upon it's members internet access?
posted by longbaugh at 10:57 AM on December 28, 2005
So, boaz, I take it you have a significant visual deficit -- specifically, in discerning shades of gray? (Or sarcasm, for that matter.)
As for "pissing off the right people", it might behoove you to learn a few things about Scientology before you equate it with, say, mainstream christianity. While you're at it, you should probably do a thorough self-examination to make sure that, you know, you don't have any logs in your own eye.
posted by lodurr at 11:03 AM on December 28, 2005
As for "pissing off the right people", it might behoove you to learn a few things about Scientology before you equate it with, say, mainstream christianity. While you're at it, you should probably do a thorough self-examination to make sure that, you know, you don't have any logs in your own eye.
posted by lodurr at 11:03 AM on December 28, 2005
longabaugh, the controls are probably economic and structural as much as anything. People who get far enough to take it veyr very seriously are usually expected to be spending a lot of time in Church related activities. That cuts down on their net-surfing time. Later, they're being sucked dry by the Church and so can't afford things like computers and internet connections. Many very active, very zealous young members are shunted into the regional Orgs, and actually live eat and sleep in Church facilities.
I suspect but do not know that there are people who have internet evangelism as their sole duty.
As for the type of person who becomes a Scientologist, I'm nto sure that has much explantory power. I read a study years ago (which was available online, but alas appears to now be gone) that claimed to show that cult membership was actually heavily weighted toward intelligent, well-educated people. They get people who are situationally depressed -- lonely, often, or in the throes ofa bad breakup. College students under a lot of strain are hot targets. So the kind of person they target is probably disproportionately likely to be active on the .net.
posted by lodurr at 11:10 AM on December 28, 2005
I suspect but do not know that there are people who have internet evangelism as their sole duty.
As for the type of person who becomes a Scientologist, I'm nto sure that has much explantory power. I read a study years ago (which was available online, but alas appears to now be gone) that claimed to show that cult membership was actually heavily weighted toward intelligent, well-educated people. They get people who are situationally depressed -- lonely, often, or in the throes ofa bad breakup. College students under a lot of strain are hot targets. So the kind of person they target is probably disproportionately likely to be active on the .net.
posted by lodurr at 11:10 AM on December 28, 2005
you don't have any logs in your own eye.
I'm reminded of the Devil's Dictionary definition of Christian: One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor.
posted by boaz at 11:19 AM on December 28, 2005
I'm reminded of the Devil's Dictionary definition of Christian: One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual needs of his neighbor.
posted by boaz at 11:19 AM on December 28, 2005
I've answered my own question with a simple google.
*slaps self for stupidity then whistles just for fun*
posted by longbaugh at 11:30 AM on December 28, 2005
*slaps self for stupidity then whistles just for fun*
posted by longbaugh at 11:30 AM on December 28, 2005
You can find net scientologists on mental health forums. They are the ones who tell us we need to get off our drugs and take vitamins.
I wish I were kidding.
posted by konolia at 1:33 PM on December 28, 2005
I wish I were kidding.
posted by konolia at 1:33 PM on December 28, 2005
Can anyone cite a source for their statistics?
According to what I've read the most modern stats on ECT fatalities are more like 2 - 4.5 for every 100,000 treatments (as of the 80's I believe).
Even in the early days of ECT when things weren't as safe it was about 1 in every 1000 treatments.
Stats care of the Canadian Psychiatric Association
posted by saraswati at 8:53 PM on December 28, 2005
According to what I've read the most modern stats on ECT fatalities are more like 2 - 4.5 for every 100,000 treatments (as of the 80's I believe).
Even in the early days of ECT when things weren't as safe it was about 1 in every 1000 treatments.
Stats care of the Canadian Psychiatric Association
posted by saraswati at 8:53 PM on December 28, 2005
When your idea of being healthy involves either aliens, a magic wafer or psychoactive medications, you might be on the wrong track.
posted by ewkpates at 6:04 AM on December 29, 2005
posted by ewkpates at 6:04 AM on December 29, 2005
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posted by ijoshua at 4:52 PM on December 27, 2005