Kos-troversy
June 27, 2006 6:26 PM Subscribe
The Plank started it, using a NY Times piece on MyDD.com founder Jerome Armstrong's recent settlement with the SEC to impune Daily Kos's integrety with accusations of graft and extortion, revealing a secret liberal-blog mailing list. Kos counterattacks. TNR expands their assault. David Brooks piles on. Kos's allies respond. TNR retracts (somewhat), and brings up another skeleton in Jerome's closet. Finally, the adults weigh in.
You talk about all these things like we know what they are.
posted by Jimbob at 6:32 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by Jimbob at 6:32 PM on June 27, 2006
I dunno -- at first blush, this sounds like so much blogtopian wankery to me. Yeah, Kos is big, has lots of readers/followers/hangers-on, and as such, any black marks on his rep are reasonable fodder for the info mill, but at the end of the day I'm placing this in the same category as politicians blaming each other after a natural disaster -- that is, it distracts from real issues, like the fact that the Republican-controlled congress just voted down another minimum wage increase, or the fact that the Democrats still need to develop a detailed set of instructions for cranio-rectal separation in time for 2008.
I normally don't like sounding as though I'm coming down on the side of those who say that what happens on the Internet stays on the Internet, but in this case, I've got to try really, really hard to get myself to give a shit.
posted by hifiparasol at 6:38 PM on June 27, 2006
I normally don't like sounding as though I'm coming down on the side of those who say that what happens on the Internet stays on the Internet, but in this case, I've got to try really, really hard to get myself to give a shit.
posted by hifiparasol at 6:38 PM on June 27, 2006
Actually, empath, Jimbob's comment makes me want to thank you -- like most political situations discussed in the blog-O-sphere, this one has very little in the way of accessible background (or, put less kindly, most of the people who post about it write as though everyone in their audience has been following it from square one, thus alienating those of us who have things to do other than surf the lefty and righty blogs all day). It's nice to have all of this collated for me in one place, which is one of the nice things about the blue. Many thanks for this comprehensive post.
posted by hifiparasol at 6:43 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by hifiparasol at 6:43 PM on June 27, 2006
Jimbob, anytime to explain it in the FPP would have made it really unwieldy.
IMO, I think a lot of this recent blow up was instigated by Lieberman supporters in the mainstream media who can't believe how much trouble he's having winning his primary in CT and wanted somebody to take a shot at. Kos could quit blogging tomorrow and it wouldn't have an iota of impact though.
posted by empath at 6:46 PM on June 27, 2006
IMO, I think a lot of this recent blow up was instigated by Lieberman supporters in the mainstream media who can't believe how much trouble he's having winning his primary in CT and wanted somebody to take a shot at. Kos could quit blogging tomorrow and it wouldn't have an iota of impact though.
posted by empath at 6:46 PM on June 27, 2006
TNR, a magazine left by its own unwise editorial choices with no one left to talk to (too Republican Lite and neocon for its supposed readership, too lily-livered for the "OMFG TERRAR TERRAR" Bush-voting crowd) decides to hit below the belt a successful liberal blogger (interestingly, TNR is neither successful nor liberal). they're so clumsy in their attack that they end up look petty and sad in the process. Kos does not really give a damn. hilarity does not ensue.
seriously, at least when Sullivan ran the magazine, he had the good sense to mix the occasional "SCIENTISTS PROVE BLACK ARE DUMBER THAN WHITES" crap and the DLc ass-kissing with stories about Princess Di and Camille Paglia screeds. right now, TNR is just whiny
posted by matteo at 6:48 PM on June 27, 2006
seriously, at least when Sullivan ran the magazine, he had the good sense to mix the occasional "SCIENTISTS PROVE BLACK ARE DUMBER THAN WHITES" crap and the DLc ass-kissing with stories about Princess Di and Camille Paglia screeds. right now, TNR is just whiny
posted by matteo at 6:48 PM on June 27, 2006
Finally, the adults weigh in. ... and then it's all recycled on Metafilter to discuss endlessly. Meanwhile, Rome is burning.
posted by Nelson at 6:49 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by Nelson at 6:49 PM on June 27, 2006
I heart Markos as much as the next guy, but I find it really hard to get worked up about all this scandal when 1. blogosphere came into vogue what, 3 years ago and 2. people are dying because of our government! Over in redstate, though, the gloating has been as fierce as ours here in the big blue over Rushmus (Fitzmas + Rush)
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:51 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by DenOfSizer at 6:51 PM on June 27, 2006
Shorter Joel Seigel: Here I go, writing for a BLOG! Weee! Hey?! Somebody criticized me! Hey! Somebody called me a name! Hey -- the liberal blogosphere is just like Facism! Bad, bad liberal nazis! Boo hoo for Joey...
Fucker.
posted by mooncrow at 6:54 PM on June 27, 2006
Fucker.
posted by mooncrow at 6:54 PM on June 27, 2006
At least the Rush story could be summarized in a headline.
posted by smackfu at 6:55 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by smackfu at 6:55 PM on June 27, 2006
Personally, I think the smearing of Kos is a great thing. A wonderful thing even. It acts as a sort of point of no return. Many progressives are going to have to make a choice: either liberal blogs are a legitmate source of policy or they're (to use rightwing technology) a bunch of loons. It's really beginning to dawn on people that things really are going to get a lot of worse before they get better.
posted by nixerman at 7:02 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by nixerman at 7:02 PM on June 27, 2006
Many progressives are going to have to make a choice: either liberal blogs are a legitmate source of policy or they're (to use rightwing technology) a bunch of loons.
Many conservatives are going to have to make a choice: either right-wing blogs are a legitmate source of policy or they're (to use liberal terminology) a bunch of wingnuts.
So, are we sick of the blogosphere yet?
posted by Jimbob at 7:11 PM on June 27, 2006
Many conservatives are going to have to make a choice: either right-wing blogs are a legitmate source of policy or they're (to use liberal terminology) a bunch of wingnuts.
So, are we sick of the blogosphere yet?
posted by Jimbob at 7:11 PM on June 27, 2006
Blogs are crap. A bunch of mostly-unqualified masturbators spewing a teaspoon of insipid opinion into the ether. Light on fact, heavy on hearsay, and often as insightful as a good gaze up one's own rectum.
IMO the only reason blogs have any value at all these days is that our mainstream media is even more useless. Save a few true journalists and investigative reporters, the MSM is a waste of trees and electrons.
I blame Fox. Because, y'know, I can.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:28 PM on June 27, 2006
IMO the only reason blogs have any value at all these days is that our mainstream media is even more useless. Save a few true journalists and investigative reporters, the MSM is a waste of trees and electrons.
I blame Fox. Because, y'know, I can.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:28 PM on June 27, 2006
sewage treatment?
posted by Pacheco at 7:37 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by Pacheco at 7:37 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
Metafilter is a weblog. A Web Log. A Log...of interesting things happening on the Web. As per the original meaning of the word.
Kos, LGF, whatever, on the other hand, are the online equivalent of talk-back radio. People call them weblogs because they consist of little articles posted in reverse-chronological order, and I use this terminology as well for convenience. However, they are a whole other kettle of fish.
posted by Jimbob at 7:37 PM on June 27, 2006
Kos, LGF, whatever, on the other hand, are the online equivalent of talk-back radio. People call them weblogs because they consist of little articles posted in reverse-chronological order, and I use this terminology as well for convenience. However, they are a whole other kettle of fish.
posted by Jimbob at 7:37 PM on June 27, 2006
Right, because metafilter isn't full of people bloviating about politics.
posted by empath at 7:40 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by empath at 7:40 PM on June 27, 2006
Right, because metafilter isn't full of people bloviating about politics.
Timmy pissed in the pool! Why cant I???
posted by Dreamghost at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
Timmy pissed in the pool! Why cant I???
posted by Dreamghost at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
It's pretty common knowledge that Newsfilter is frowned upon, and "Metafilter doesn't do politics well". As I said, definitions have become confused, so we end up with people around here turning up and thinking Metafilter is a political discussion forum.
posted by Jimbob at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by Jimbob at 7:42 PM on June 27, 2006
Well, FWIW, I attempted to keep the editorializing to a minimum. To me, the most interesing part of this whole thing is that a blogger is now facing the kind of character-assassination that politicians have faced for years. I doubt that Kos and Jerome will be the last.
You should never threaten to cost someone more than it would cost to have you killed (or have your reputation ruined).
posted by empath at 7:49 PM on June 27, 2006
You should never threaten to cost someone more than it would cost to have you killed (or have your reputation ruined).
posted by empath at 7:49 PM on June 27, 2006
Call me crazy, but everyone here seems really blase about this stuff.
1) Markos and Jerome aren't just bloggers -- they're fairly high profile political consultants and are often paid as such. They actually influence races and have a significant impact on the direction of the party for better or for worse.
For instance, Armstrong did not disclose that he was under SEC investigation when he was consulting for Dean. Had that come out it could have been politically damaging to his candidate. (Nevermind that the pump and dump stuff he was doing is illegal and unethical).
2) That astrology... Um, the Republican take back of congress in '94 is explained by the exploration of the Kuiper Belt? His interest in astrology is so intense it seriously makes me question everything about the man. Reality based community, my ass.
4) Part of the big appeal of the liberal blogosphere is its ability to unite for a cause, and liberal bloggers are growing increasingly unhappy with Markos' iron fist. This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
posted by Heminator at 7:53 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
1) Markos and Jerome aren't just bloggers -- they're fairly high profile political consultants and are often paid as such. They actually influence races and have a significant impact on the direction of the party for better or for worse.
For instance, Armstrong did not disclose that he was under SEC investigation when he was consulting for Dean. Had that come out it could have been politically damaging to his candidate. (Nevermind that the pump and dump stuff he was doing is illegal and unethical).
2) That astrology... Um, the Republican take back of congress in '94 is explained by the exploration of the Kuiper Belt? His interest in astrology is so intense it seriously makes me question everything about the man. Reality based community, my ass.
4) Part of the big appeal of the liberal blogosphere is its ability to unite for a cause, and liberal bloggers are growing increasingly unhappy with Markos' iron fist. This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
posted by Heminator at 7:53 PM on June 27, 2006 [1 favorite]
I'm placing this in the same category as politicians blaming each other after a natural disaster
And how often has that happened? To what are you referring? (I have my ideas, but if you drove through the city--particularly over a bridge where everything's normal on one side, and dead trees and demolished homes on the other, boats in the median, etc.--your notion that it was a thoroughly natural disaster would be shattered. And there was certainly blame to go arounde there.)
posted by raysmj at 7:57 PM on June 27, 2006
And how often has that happened? To what are you referring? (I have my ideas, but if you drove through the city--particularly over a bridge where everything's normal on one side, and dead trees and demolished homes on the other, boats in the median, etc.--your notion that it was a thoroughly natural disaster would be shattered. And there was certainly blame to go arounde there.)
posted by raysmj at 7:57 PM on June 27, 2006
This is ever-so tiny potatoes compared to that disaster. Who gives a rat's ass?
posted by raysmj at 7:58 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by raysmj at 7:58 PM on June 27, 2006
and liberal bloggers are growing increasingly unhappy with Markos' iron fist...
And weblogging became centrally-controlled when exactly?
... This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
Another problem identified - relying on ad revenue? So it's about the money, not the sense, then? I've spent some time, in the past, as one of these "liberal bloggers", and I never had to rely on anyone for ad revenue.
posted by Jimbob at 7:58 PM on June 27, 2006
And weblogging became centrally-controlled when exactly?
... This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
Another problem identified - relying on ad revenue? So it's about the money, not the sense, then? I've spent some time, in the past, as one of these "liberal bloggers", and I never had to rely on anyone for ad revenue.
posted by Jimbob at 7:58 PM on June 27, 2006
I think the ad network thing is a load of shit. It just makes it easy to buy their ads. Anybody big enough to where it would hurt to lose ads would be big enough to get them on their own. The ones who wouldn't aren't making more than $100 a month if that. You can go to blog-ads to see what they're getting paid. It ain't much.
I agree on Armstrong, though. I've never read myDD, and I don't recall anything particularly that he's ever written, so I don't get why he has so much influence, supposedly. If I were Mark Warner, I'd be having serious second thoughts about hiring the guy.
That goes for Joe Trippi, too, who has his own past hyping stocks. The combination of the two of those guys in the Dean campaign seems like bad news in retrospect.
And I'm saying this as a hard-core Dean supporter who donated a few times and voted for him in the primary well after it was obvious he wasn't going to win. I'm glad he's not working with those guys any more.
I'm willing to entertain the idea that Kos isn't entirely on the up-and-up, but I just don't see it right now. He just seems like a political operator and wannabe party-boss. Which doesn't make him Ghandi, but it doesn't make him Don Corleone, either.
posted by empath at 8:06 PM on June 27, 2006
I agree on Armstrong, though. I've never read myDD, and I don't recall anything particularly that he's ever written, so I don't get why he has so much influence, supposedly. If I were Mark Warner, I'd be having serious second thoughts about hiring the guy.
That goes for Joe Trippi, too, who has his own past hyping stocks. The combination of the two of those guys in the Dean campaign seems like bad news in retrospect.
And I'm saying this as a hard-core Dean supporter who donated a few times and voted for him in the primary well after it was obvious he wasn't going to win. I'm glad he's not working with those guys any more.
I'm willing to entertain the idea that Kos isn't entirely on the up-and-up, but I just don't see it right now. He just seems like a political operator and wannabe party-boss. Which doesn't make him Ghandi, but it doesn't make him Don Corleone, either.
posted by empath at 8:06 PM on June 27, 2006
skallas: Thanks for that. Now it makes some sense.
So Kos is actually being taken seriously enough to have a hatchet job done on him.
What are the real players afraid of?
posted by sien at 8:06 PM on June 27, 2006
So Kos is actually being taken seriously enough to have a hatchet job done on him.
What are the real players afraid of?
posted by sien at 8:06 PM on June 27, 2006
>And weblogging became centrally-controlled when exactly?
About the time that Markos began instructing other liberal blogs not to talk about the Armstrong controversy. This story broke last week. And yet it's taken this long for it to end up on Metafilter. It really hasn't been reported on much.
>I never had to rely on anyone for ad revenue.
Well, then! I stand corrected. The fact is that you're talking about hundreds of thousands in ad revenue that all go through Markos and Armstrong. It will have an impact, even if it's a matter of people remaining hushed about oh, say Armstrong potentially being a financial sleazebag who's interest in astrology underscores the fact he's not the most candent star in the intellectual milky way.
posted by Heminator at 8:10 PM on June 27, 2006
About the time that Markos began instructing other liberal blogs not to talk about the Armstrong controversy. This story broke last week. And yet it's taken this long for it to end up on Metafilter. It really hasn't been reported on much.
>I never had to rely on anyone for ad revenue.
Well, then! I stand corrected. The fact is that you're talking about hundreds of thousands in ad revenue that all go through Markos and Armstrong. It will have an impact, even if it's a matter of people remaining hushed about oh, say Armstrong potentially being a financial sleazebag who's interest in astrology underscores the fact he's not the most candent star in the intellectual milky way.
posted by Heminator at 8:10 PM on June 27, 2006
What's the MSM so afraid of, exactly?
On preview: what slen said.
posted by joe lisboa at 8:12 PM on June 27, 2006
On preview: what slen said.
posted by joe lisboa at 8:12 PM on June 27, 2006
This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
Chris Bowers runs the Liberal Blog Advertising Network, not Kos or Armstrong.
posted by monosyllabic at 8:13 PM on June 27, 2006
Chris Bowers runs the Liberal Blog Advertising Network, not Kos or Armstrong.
posted by monosyllabic at 8:13 PM on June 27, 2006
Herminator,
There's something strangely wonderful about your comment.
(1) Markos and Jerome aren't just bloggers -- they're fairly high profile political consultants and are often paid as such.
Now, this is a lie. Kos has stated, in very clear terms, that he is not a political consultant.
Why are you repeating this lie?
(2) His interest in astrology is so intense it seriously makes me question everything about the man. Reality based community, my ass.
Well, admittedly, the guy's an idiot for taking astrology seriously. How does this relate to the question of the integrity of liberal blogs, again? Are you attempting a sort of guilt-by-association attack here? Jeroome is an astrology nut and so all those associated with him are also nuts? What exactly is your point here?
(3) Part of the big appeal of the liberal blogosphere is its ability to unite for a cause, and liberal bloggers are growing increasingly unhappy with Markos' iron fist.
This is a wonderful sort of non-accusation. You provide no evidence that Kos is actually using ad revenue to dictate what other bloggers say. You have no proof, no motive, not even evidence of a crime. You're just blindly asserting this.
(4) This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
This is another lie. Kos has nothing to do with deciding which blogs get which advertising.
Still, keep up the good work, Herminator. The lies, the vague attacks, the insinuations--they are what the blogosphere really need right now. For too long these guys have been given a free pass. Some scrutiny, some baseless attacks, some politics--this is the only way to determine what these guys are made of. Politics should be a sort of free market for ideas. It's not so much about truth/value but rather what the market will accept and is willing to pay. Competition isn't just good for consumers, it's good for the world.
posted by nixerman at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2006
There's something strangely wonderful about your comment.
(1) Markos and Jerome aren't just bloggers -- they're fairly high profile political consultants and are often paid as such.
Now, this is a lie. Kos has stated, in very clear terms, that he is not a political consultant.
Why are you repeating this lie?
(2) His interest in astrology is so intense it seriously makes me question everything about the man. Reality based community, my ass.
Well, admittedly, the guy's an idiot for taking astrology seriously. How does this relate to the question of the integrity of liberal blogs, again? Are you attempting a sort of guilt-by-association attack here? Jeroome is an astrology nut and so all those associated with him are also nuts? What exactly is your point here?
(3) Part of the big appeal of the liberal blogosphere is its ability to unite for a cause, and liberal bloggers are growing increasingly unhappy with Markos' iron fist.
This is a wonderful sort of non-accusation. You provide no evidence that Kos is actually using ad revenue to dictate what other bloggers say. You have no proof, no motive, not even evidence of a crime. You're just blindly asserting this.
(4) This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
This is another lie. Kos has nothing to do with deciding which blogs get which advertising.
Still, keep up the good work, Herminator. The lies, the vague attacks, the insinuations--they are what the blogosphere really need right now. For too long these guys have been given a free pass. Some scrutiny, some baseless attacks, some politics--this is the only way to determine what these guys are made of. Politics should be a sort of free market for ideas. It's not so much about truth/value but rather what the market will accept and is willing to pay. Competition isn't just good for consumers, it's good for the world.
posted by nixerman at 8:15 PM on June 27, 2006
"Zengerle suggests in a followup that the members of the Liberal Blog Advertising Network have a financial motivation not to publicize this scandal, since the network's run by Armstrong and Moulitsas with MyDD founder Chris Bowers."
http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/news/2967/daily-kos-hid-business-partners-sec-lawsuit
posted by Heminator at 8:16 PM on June 27, 2006
http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/news/2967/daily-kos-hid-business-partners-sec-lawsuit
posted by Heminator at 8:16 PM on June 27, 2006
Yes, that accusation was in my initial post, as were a half dozen blog posts in rebuttal.
posted by empath at 8:20 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by empath at 8:20 PM on June 27, 2006
Yes, I'm lying nixerman - you got me! Baseless attacks?! A settlement with the SEC over what is at very least highly unethical if not illegal behavior, a bizarre an inexcusable reliance on astrology - and his good buddy asking everyone not to write about it?
Yeah, sounds totally baseless to me.
posted by Heminator at 8:21 PM on June 27, 2006
Yeah, sounds totally baseless to me.
posted by Heminator at 8:21 PM on June 27, 2006
Still failing to understand how "I'm a liberal, I'm going to start myself a weblog" necessarily has anything to do with Kos. If this "scandal" threatens to drag down small-time bloggers, they should be asking themselves why they felt the need to attach and align themselves so closely to a personality cult.
Like I said, I thought the revolutionary thing about "blogging" is that anyone can have a voice.
posted by Jimbob at 8:23 PM on June 27, 2006
Like I said, I thought the revolutionary thing about "blogging" is that anyone can have a voice.
posted by Jimbob at 8:23 PM on June 27, 2006
Herminator,
How are you not lying?
You said Kos was a political consultant. This is not true.
You said Kos is using his power over the ad network to control what other bloggers say. This is not true.
Am I missing something? Are you not making deliberately false statements? Are you not intentionally mistating the facts here?
As for the Jerome-is-a-lying-nut angle, it's an interesting angle but I don't think it'll go far. Still, let's allow it for the benefit of sport. Jerome-is-a-lying-nut. But did Kos command others not to write about it? Did others actually obey this command? Do you have any evidence whatsoever that this is what really happened? No, I'm afraid you don't.
Like I said before, my biggest problem with American politics is that they're not efficient. There's no way to measure derived value for each dollar invested. This is because the market place has an enormous barrier to entry and there's really no competition. I think attacking individual bloggers is going to be a big improvement for everybody.
If this "scandal" threatens to drag down small-time bloggers, they should be asking themselves why they felt the need to attach and align themselves so closely to a personality cult.
Jimbob, what the hell are you talking about? who are these mysterious small-time bloggers who've bought into the Kos personality cult? Do you know something we don't know?
posted by nixerman at 8:31 PM on June 27, 2006
How are you not lying?
You said Kos was a political consultant. This is not true.
You said Kos is using his power over the ad network to control what other bloggers say. This is not true.
Am I missing something? Are you not making deliberately false statements? Are you not intentionally mistating the facts here?
As for the Jerome-is-a-lying-nut angle, it's an interesting angle but I don't think it'll go far. Still, let's allow it for the benefit of sport. Jerome-is-a-lying-nut. But did Kos command others not to write about it? Did others actually obey this command? Do you have any evidence whatsoever that this is what really happened? No, I'm afraid you don't.
Like I said before, my biggest problem with American politics is that they're not efficient. There's no way to measure derived value for each dollar invested. This is because the market place has an enormous barrier to entry and there's really no competition. I think attacking individual bloggers is going to be a big improvement for everybody.
If this "scandal" threatens to drag down small-time bloggers, they should be asking themselves why they felt the need to attach and align themselves so closely to a personality cult.
Jimbob, what the hell are you talking about? who are these mysterious small-time bloggers who've bought into the Kos personality cult? Do you know something we don't know?
posted by nixerman at 8:31 PM on June 27, 2006
Nuance much, nixerman? Oh, that's right you probably learned how to discuss issues reading Kos so you have one speed: ATTACK!
I think the problem is that it's hard to tell where Kos ends and Armstrong begins. But just to clarify, Kos is a paid consultant: "On Dean's campaign, we paid Markos and Jerome Armstrong as consultants, largely in order to ensure that they said positive things about Dean."
and
"Armstrong Zuniga, the two men's political consulting firm, was on the Dean payroll"
http://www.slate.com/id/2112314
or are these more LIES! Hah, I say mendacity thy name is NIXERMAN!
Also, I never said that he was actively using the threat of the ad network -- he doesn't have to. People dependant on the network might already be afraid to speak out without him saying anything. And, you might have noticed I'm hardly the only one to make this assertion.
Also, the Armstrong is a lying nut theme isn't going anywhere? Nice bit of spin. The two men wrote a book and have a consulting firm together but it won't affect the other?
posted by Heminator at 9:00 PM on June 27, 2006
I think the problem is that it's hard to tell where Kos ends and Armstrong begins. But just to clarify, Kos is a paid consultant: "On Dean's campaign, we paid Markos and Jerome Armstrong as consultants, largely in order to ensure that they said positive things about Dean."
and
"Armstrong Zuniga, the two men's political consulting firm, was on the Dean payroll"
http://www.slate.com/id/2112314
or are these more LIES! Hah, I say mendacity thy name is NIXERMAN!
Also, I never said that he was actively using the threat of the ad network -- he doesn't have to. People dependant on the network might already be afraid to speak out without him saying anything. And, you might have noticed I'm hardly the only one to make this assertion.
Also, the Armstrong is a lying nut theme isn't going anywhere? Nice bit of spin. The two men wrote a book and have a consulting firm together but it won't affect the other?
posted by Heminator at 9:00 PM on June 27, 2006
Kos WAS a consultant. He currently is not a paid consultant and does not plan to be for the forseeable future.
posted by empath at 9:13 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by empath at 9:13 PM on June 27, 2006
Jimbob, what the hell are you talking about?
Well, someone up above made the claim that this "matters" because a load of bloggers are "ruled by the iron fist" of Kos, are relying on Kos-based advertising revenue to feed their starving children etc.
To which I expressed amazement that one A-lister can attract this much slavish attention.
posted by Jimbob at 9:20 PM on June 27, 2006
Well, someone up above made the claim that this "matters" because a load of bloggers are "ruled by the iron fist" of Kos, are relying on Kos-based advertising revenue to feed their starving children etc.
To which I expressed amazement that one A-lister can attract this much slavish attention.
posted by Jimbob at 9:20 PM on June 27, 2006
Regardless, I hardly think referring to him as a "paid consultant" is out of line -- he was and I'd say the odds of him being one again in the future are pretty good. Further, Armstrong is a paid consultant and he clearly is coordinating stuff with Kos.
posted by Heminator at 9:21 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by Heminator at 9:21 PM on June 27, 2006
Herminator,
Oh, that's right you probably learned how to discuss issues reading Kos so you have one speed: ATTACK!
This is an interesting ad hominem but I think you could do better. If you are going to call me a loon you should come right out and say I'm a loon. I think the least you owe me is the sort of brutal honesty that one accords to an equal.
"On Dean's campaign, we paid Markos and Jerome Armstrong as consultants, largely in order to ensure that they said positive things about Dean."
This is an interesting quote. But where is your source for this quote? Are you now in the business of repeating sourceless quotes? Again, this doesn't do much for your credibility. I see a quote like that, with no attribution or context whatsoever, and my first instinct is to assume you're being deliberately dishonest. This reinforces my general claim: Herminator is a liar.
I never said that he was actively using the threat of the ad network -- he doesn't have to. People dependant on the network might already be afraid to speak out without him saying anything.
Now this is a strange development. Initially you said:
Part of the big appeal of the liberal blogosphere is its ability to unite for a cause, and liberal bloggers are growing increasingly unhappy with Markos' iron fist. This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
Now this statement clearly implies that Kos is using his power over the ad network to dictate what other bloggers say, in fact he's doing this with an "iron fist."
Now you make the far weaker claim that Kos is not actively using his power over the ad network, but that other bloggers might be afraid of him anyways. Now it's important to note that (1) you have no evidence for this claim, it's a totally baseless accusation (2) you repeatedly avoid specifics as to explain how this sort of soft influence might work (3) you say that you're not the only person making this claim but don't point to any other sources.
Again Herminator, this sort of manuvering doesn't help you. You should've stuck to your stronger claim that Kos rules over the liberal blogs with an iron fist. When you surrender the high ground you've already lost the battle. Keep this in the mind for the future since I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of you.
The two men wrote a book and have a consulting firm together but it won't affect the other?
Now, you can keep repeating this lie, but I'm going to keep calling you on it. Kos isn't a political consultant. He hasn't been a political consultant in two years.
Are you making the claim that once a person is a consultant then they're ALWAYS a consultant?
Now I understand why you want to paint Kos as a political consultant. You want to get across this image that he has access to all sorts of back rooms and that money is changing hands etc etc. But the facts just aren't with you, here. Kos isn't a political consultant and he certainly doesn't run a political consulting firm with Jerome. This is the falsehood that really hangs the rest of your argument. I'm going to have to recommend you come with a stronger claim here, because just repeating the lie over and over makes you look stupid.
posted by nixerman at 9:29 PM on June 27, 2006
Oh, that's right you probably learned how to discuss issues reading Kos so you have one speed: ATTACK!
This is an interesting ad hominem but I think you could do better. If you are going to call me a loon you should come right out and say I'm a loon. I think the least you owe me is the sort of brutal honesty that one accords to an equal.
"On Dean's campaign, we paid Markos and Jerome Armstrong as consultants, largely in order to ensure that they said positive things about Dean."
This is an interesting quote. But where is your source for this quote? Are you now in the business of repeating sourceless quotes? Again, this doesn't do much for your credibility. I see a quote like that, with no attribution or context whatsoever, and my first instinct is to assume you're being deliberately dishonest. This reinforces my general claim: Herminator is a liar.
I never said that he was actively using the threat of the ad network -- he doesn't have to. People dependant on the network might already be afraid to speak out without him saying anything.
Now this is a strange development. Initially you said:
Part of the big appeal of the liberal blogosphere is its ability to unite for a cause, and liberal bloggers are growing increasingly unhappy with Markos' iron fist. This is especially important since Kos and Armstrong run the ad network, which many of them depend on for revenue.
Now this statement clearly implies that Kos is using his power over the ad network to dictate what other bloggers say, in fact he's doing this with an "iron fist."
Now you make the far weaker claim that Kos is not actively using his power over the ad network, but that other bloggers might be afraid of him anyways. Now it's important to note that (1) you have no evidence for this claim, it's a totally baseless accusation (2) you repeatedly avoid specifics as to explain how this sort of soft influence might work (3) you say that you're not the only person making this claim but don't point to any other sources.
Again Herminator, this sort of manuvering doesn't help you. You should've stuck to your stronger claim that Kos rules over the liberal blogs with an iron fist. When you surrender the high ground you've already lost the battle. Keep this in the mind for the future since I have a feeling we'll be seeing more of you.
The two men wrote a book and have a consulting firm together but it won't affect the other?
Now, you can keep repeating this lie, but I'm going to keep calling you on it. Kos isn't a political consultant. He hasn't been a political consultant in two years.
Are you making the claim that once a person is a consultant then they're ALWAYS a consultant?
Now I understand why you want to paint Kos as a political consultant. You want to get across this image that he has access to all sorts of back rooms and that money is changing hands etc etc. But the facts just aren't with you, here. Kos isn't a political consultant and he certainly doesn't run a political consulting firm with Jerome. This is the falsehood that really hangs the rest of your argument. I'm going to have to recommend you come with a stronger claim here, because just repeating the lie over and over makes you look stupid.
posted by nixerman at 9:29 PM on June 27, 2006
Ah, my mistake. I see now where you pulled that delicious quote from. I will do you the courtesy of completing the quote:
"While they ended up also providing useful advice, the initial reason for our outreach was explicitly to buy their airtime. To be very clear, they never committed to supporting Dean for the payment—but it was very clearly, internally, our goal." In the past, Teachout has also fingered Matthew Gross for writing about Erskine Bowles while Gross was on the candidate's payroll.
I don't know. It all looks pretty iffy to me. You also tend to leave out important facts such as Kos' repeated public admission that he was on the Dean payroll. I just don't think this means what you think it means. Kos' support for Dean doesn't support you insinuation that Kos has a history of using his blog in the service of his political clients. I think we should avoid this sort of selective quoting in the future.
posted by nixerman at 9:40 PM on June 27, 2006
"While they ended up also providing useful advice, the initial reason for our outreach was explicitly to buy their airtime. To be very clear, they never committed to supporting Dean for the payment—but it was very clearly, internally, our goal." In the past, Teachout has also fingered Matthew Gross for writing about Erskine Bowles while Gross was on the candidate's payroll.
I don't know. It all looks pretty iffy to me. You also tend to leave out important facts such as Kos' repeated public admission that he was on the Dean payroll. I just don't think this means what you think it means. Kos' support for Dean doesn't support you insinuation that Kos has a history of using his blog in the service of his political clients. I think we should avoid this sort of selective quoting in the future.
posted by nixerman at 9:40 PM on June 27, 2006
Lies make baby Nixerman cry.
Nixerman, I pasted the link to the "sourceless" quote directly underneath it. I can see you're giving a close read to my posts, based on your tenuous grasp of my arguments.
And yes, I don't think his past as a paid consultant is irrelevant, innacurrate or something he can escape, and there's no denying he's a significant player in Democratic politcs. Are you going to assert he's not influential? What about the instances where it appears that Armstrong - who is a paid consultant - appears to coordinating efforts with Kos, such as in Ohio? (I linked it earlier but you probably didn't notice that either).
I don't know why you have so much invested in protecting his reputation, as opposed to say, winning elections. But what do I know, I'm a liar, liar pants on fire. Just repeat the accusation til it sticks.
Oh and one of these days, you might get around to the issue that Kos' good buddyand liberal 'blogfather' is an unethical cheat who happens to be F--KING INSANE. You'll defend Kos to the death, but strangely silent about his business partner and co-author? Aside from Armstrong, you might at least be worried about Kos' lack of judgment.
But I'm a liar, so it's my ethics we need to be concerned about, right Nixerman?
posted by Heminator at 9:55 PM on June 27, 2006
Nixerman, I pasted the link to the "sourceless" quote directly underneath it. I can see you're giving a close read to my posts, based on your tenuous grasp of my arguments.
And yes, I don't think his past as a paid consultant is irrelevant, innacurrate or something he can escape, and there's no denying he's a significant player in Democratic politcs. Are you going to assert he's not influential? What about the instances where it appears that Armstrong - who is a paid consultant - appears to coordinating efforts with Kos, such as in Ohio? (I linked it earlier but you probably didn't notice that either).
I don't know why you have so much invested in protecting his reputation, as opposed to say, winning elections. But what do I know, I'm a liar, liar pants on fire. Just repeat the accusation til it sticks.
Oh and one of these days, you might get around to the issue that Kos' good buddyand liberal 'blogfather' is an unethical cheat who happens to be F--KING INSANE. You'll defend Kos to the death, but strangely silent about his business partner and co-author? Aside from Armstrong, you might at least be worried about Kos' lack of judgment.
But I'm a liar, so it's my ethics we need to be concerned about, right Nixerman?
posted by Heminator at 9:55 PM on June 27, 2006
Tell your blog to ready for blood.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:08 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by kirkaracha at 10:08 PM on June 27, 2006
>important facts such as Kos' repeated public admission that he was on the Dean payroll.
I selected the quote more because it established his bona fides as a consultant, not because I give a crap whether everybody on the Dean campaign was happy with him.
posted by Heminator at 10:09 PM on June 27, 2006
I selected the quote more because it established his bona fides as a consultant, not because I give a crap whether everybody on the Dean campaign was happy with him.
posted by Heminator at 10:09 PM on June 27, 2006
What's wrong with astrology? How is it, on its face, any stupider or more insane than any other belief system with the support of 31% of Americans?
posted by aaronetc at 10:09 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by aaronetc at 10:09 PM on June 27, 2006
Okay, I'm going to bed. 'Night Nixerman, we shall live to do battle another day. Kirkaracha thank you for putting it all into perspective. Haven't laughed that hard in a while.
posted by Heminator at 10:11 PM on June 27, 2006
posted by Heminator at 10:11 PM on June 27, 2006
This is too funny. You guys are slagging each other over a bloody blog! It's like we're reading some teen girl's MSN chat, all shitflinging douchebaggery about "what that bitch did that whore and omg did she really blow him what a skank!"
Lordy. As if Kos is someone important in the Real World. Hate to burst your bubble, girls, but the blogs don't influence jack shit. 30% of your country doesn't even have an ISP, and of those that do use the Internet most of them don't read Kos. He's like a junior reporter at the Podunk Times.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:13 PM on June 27, 2006
Lordy. As if Kos is someone important in the Real World. Hate to burst your bubble, girls, but the blogs don't influence jack shit. 30% of your country doesn't even have an ISP, and of those that do use the Internet most of them don't read Kos. He's like a junior reporter at the Podunk Times.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:13 PM on June 27, 2006
I dunno. I cut Christianity some slack 'cause I like a lot of the music (I was raised Episcopalian). Astrology has that crappy New Age junk and I'm allergic to Yanni. But how Christians can believe in astrology, as many do, that's a good question.
And by the way, 99.5% of all eligible voters have never heard of Kos, a fact I find strangely exhilarating right now.
posted by words1 at 10:18 PM on June 27, 2006
And by the way, 99.5% of all eligible voters have never heard of Kos, a fact I find strangely exhilarating right now.
posted by words1 at 10:18 PM on June 27, 2006
This would be more entertaining if everyone involved were dressed up in powdered wigs and silk hose, like the French courtiers.
posted by moonbiter at 1:08 AM on June 28, 2006
posted by moonbiter at 1:08 AM on June 28, 2006
What the fuck is this heaping, steaming pile of muddily pickle-headed horseshit and what flying fuck is it doing on my planet?
EXTERMINATE.
Vital feature request for Earth 2.0: User agent filtering algorithm: Do you enjoy politics? If yes, *fwoomp*. If no, welcome to Earth 2.0! Here's your ivy leaf! Avoid the fruit-bearing talking giant snake and enjoy your stay.
posted by loquacious at 5:34 AM on June 28, 2006
EXTERMINATE.
Vital feature request for Earth 2.0: User agent filtering algorithm: Do you enjoy politics? If yes, *fwoomp*. If no, welcome to Earth 2.0! Here's your ivy leaf! Avoid the fruit-bearing talking giant snake and enjoy your stay.
posted by loquacious at 5:34 AM on June 28, 2006
I saw that this story made in to the Irish Times yesterday which boggled my mind completely.
The "Bush, Republicans, and Varuna" link is pretty hilarious.
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:29 AM on June 28, 2006
The "Bush, Republicans, and Varuna" link is pretty hilarious.
posted by jamesonandwater at 6:29 AM on June 28, 2006
In Sunday's paper, conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks attacks the founder of Daily Kos for acting like a "Kingpin" who "commands his followers" to "unleash their venom on those who stand in the way," RAW STORY has found.
That is some serious fucking reporting right there. Hoo boy. Now we are getting some place as adults calmly discussing issues. Yey blogs!
posted by yerfatma at 7:44 AM on June 28, 2006
That is some serious fucking reporting right there. Hoo boy. Now we are getting some place as adults calmly discussing issues. Yey blogs!
posted by yerfatma at 7:44 AM on June 28, 2006
I'm surprised that there's so little criticism being leveled at Armstrong for the allegations of stock touting, here and elsewhere. (Disclosure: Chris Bowers booted my site out of the Liberal Blog Ad Network last fall, as I described on my blog.)
Some of the evidence of what Armstrong did can still be found on InvestorsHub in the AccessTel board. He talks up the stock without ever managing to tell people he was getting 25,000 shares in its reverse merger, and it's a company that shares principals with Bluepoint (the company the SEC sued him over). On the same day as the AccessTel merger agreement, he posted that he had bought a "whopping 250 shares" for his son.
That's so slimy you have to revisit his partnership with Kos on the Dean campaign, their consultancy together, Kos putting him in charge of BlogPAC, their actions as founders of the ad network, and anything else they're involved in together. How trustworthy are they?
Kos vacillates between denying his importance and elevating it, but he's without a doubt a leader of a sizeable activist community. They're going after the establishment Dems hard in the run up to 2008, and he declared at an event last weekend that the party could either make changes or "we will roll them."
Even if you disregard the SEC stuff and the questions it raises -- like whether they told Dean and Trippi about it in 2003 -- you have to look at the clownish response from Kos since these allegations surfaced.
The guy's raking in $15,000 a week in BlogAds, based on his current rate and the number of ads running. But to my knowledge, he hasn't even hired a publicist who could help him weather a PR crisis like this one and get his spin out there to compete with right-wing spin.
As a fellow liberal Democrat who is equally tired of losing, I'm supposed to believe this guy can take over the party?
posted by rcade at 9:14 AM on June 28, 2006
Some of the evidence of what Armstrong did can still be found on InvestorsHub in the AccessTel board. He talks up the stock without ever managing to tell people he was getting 25,000 shares in its reverse merger, and it's a company that shares principals with Bluepoint (the company the SEC sued him over). On the same day as the AccessTel merger agreement, he posted that he had bought a "whopping 250 shares" for his son.
That's so slimy you have to revisit his partnership with Kos on the Dean campaign, their consultancy together, Kos putting him in charge of BlogPAC, their actions as founders of the ad network, and anything else they're involved in together. How trustworthy are they?
Kos vacillates between denying his importance and elevating it, but he's without a doubt a leader of a sizeable activist community. They're going after the establishment Dems hard in the run up to 2008, and he declared at an event last weekend that the party could either make changes or "we will roll them."
Even if you disregard the SEC stuff and the questions it raises -- like whether they told Dean and Trippi about it in 2003 -- you have to look at the clownish response from Kos since these allegations surfaced.
The guy's raking in $15,000 a week in BlogAds, based on his current rate and the number of ads running. But to my knowledge, he hasn't even hired a publicist who could help him weather a PR crisis like this one and get his spin out there to compete with right-wing spin.
As a fellow liberal Democrat who is equally tired of losing, I'm supposed to believe this guy can take over the party?
posted by rcade at 9:14 AM on June 28, 2006
I don't think it's really a PR crisis, and he seems to have a genuine hate for PR guys and consultants, so I'm not surpised he decided to handle this on his own.
I don't think Kos really wants to take over the party, and I doubt many Kossacks do, either. The whole point of the movement is to get normal, non political-professionals back in charge of the party so it acts in the interests of the people instead of the elites. It's a populist movement. He's just a very public face of it.
Personally, I'd prefer that he re-branded the site to get his name off of it.
posted by empath at 9:30 AM on June 28, 2006
I don't think Kos really wants to take over the party, and I doubt many Kossacks do, either. The whole point of the movement is to get normal, non political-professionals back in charge of the party so it acts in the interests of the people instead of the elites. It's a populist movement. He's just a very public face of it.
Personally, I'd prefer that he re-branded the site to get his name off of it.
posted by empath at 9:30 AM on June 28, 2006
Nixerman— What you have to remember is that Heminator already has a place as part of the conservative media corps, and his allegations of corruption are better viewed in a John O'Neill light. Or at least in the light of, say, misrepresenting charges against Greenpeace to confirm his own biases.
It is funny how this story is, like, OMG KORRUPSHUN! but the Plame affair was a "non-starter."
posted by klangklangston at 9:57 AM on June 28, 2006
It is funny how this story is, like, OMG KORRUPSHUN! but the Plame affair was a "non-starter."
posted by klangklangston at 9:57 AM on June 28, 2006
Hah, i didn't realize he was the 'my dinner with jack' guy.
Well, he knows from corruption, I guess.
posted by empath at 10:04 AM on June 28, 2006
Well, he knows from corruption, I guess.
posted by empath at 10:04 AM on June 28, 2006
It is funny how this story is, like, OMG KORRUPSHUN! but the Plame affair was a "non-starter."
It's funny, and by funny I mean completely fucking depressing, how quick my side resorts to dodges like this.
I thought the culture of corruption was something fed-up Dems wanted to eliminate, not something we wanted to join.
posted by rcade at 10:14 AM on June 28, 2006
It's funny, and by funny I mean completely fucking depressing, how quick my side resorts to dodges like this.
I thought the culture of corruption was something fed-up Dems wanted to eliminate, not something we wanted to join.
posted by rcade at 10:14 AM on June 28, 2006
"I thought the culture of corruption was something fed-up Dems wanted to eliminate, not something we wanted to join."
i would have to agree, i have been more than a little upset at dailykos and huffington post and several other sites for not getting extremely pissed off about jefferson, and any other democratic controversies. Also i think that kos would be doing himself a favor in the log run if he distanced him self from armstrong now.
posted by sourbrew at 10:41 AM on June 28, 2006
i would have to agree, i have been more than a little upset at dailykos and huffington post and several other sites for not getting extremely pissed off about jefferson, and any other democratic controversies. Also i think that kos would be doing himself a favor in the log run if he distanced him self from armstrong now.
posted by sourbrew at 10:41 AM on June 28, 2006
I thought the culture of corruption was something fed-up Dems wanted to eliminate, not something we wanted to join.
Well, sometimes corruption is a very good thing. In over-regulated markets corruption is often the only way to actually get something done.
But seriously, where is the corruption here?
I don't know enough of the facts, but let's take it as a given that Jerome Armstrong is the scum of the earth. I hate to condemn him without him being here to respond, but he is a stock-picker so he's slightly better than real-estate lawyers and IMF officials. Do you really think the moral failings of Armstrong are enough to condemn the entire liberal blogopshere? Is it enough to raise questions of integrity? Why?
All I see here is a pretty sloppy smear job. It's hilariously bad. The insinuation that Kos controls other blogs, that he's plugged in to the deepest levels of the Democratic Party, the backroom machinations of people who may or may not be "political consultants," the charges of Blogofascism ... it all reads like farce. I don't think anybody without an agenda could seriously believe any of it.
I suppose the real question here is to what extent blogs can be integrated into the overarching media-political complex. I suspect hiring a PR consultant and launching a full on assault is exactly what a lot of people are hoping Kos will do. There's no better way to compromise his values and force him to "play the game." What they certainly don't want is for him to remain off in the wilderness doing his own thing.
posted by nixerman at 11:00 AM on June 28, 2006
Well, sometimes corruption is a very good thing. In over-regulated markets corruption is often the only way to actually get something done.
But seriously, where is the corruption here?
I don't know enough of the facts, but let's take it as a given that Jerome Armstrong is the scum of the earth. I hate to condemn him without him being here to respond, but he is a stock-picker so he's slightly better than real-estate lawyers and IMF officials. Do you really think the moral failings of Armstrong are enough to condemn the entire liberal blogopshere? Is it enough to raise questions of integrity? Why?
All I see here is a pretty sloppy smear job. It's hilariously bad. The insinuation that Kos controls other blogs, that he's plugged in to the deepest levels of the Democratic Party, the backroom machinations of people who may or may not be "political consultants," the charges of Blogofascism ... it all reads like farce. I don't think anybody without an agenda could seriously believe any of it.
I suppose the real question here is to what extent blogs can be integrated into the overarching media-political complex. I suspect hiring a PR consultant and launching a full on assault is exactly what a lot of people are hoping Kos will do. There's no better way to compromise his values and force him to "play the game." What they certainly don't want is for him to remain off in the wilderness doing his own thing.
posted by nixerman at 11:00 AM on June 28, 2006
What's wrong with astrology? How is it, on its face, any stupider or more insane than any other belief system with the support of 31% of Americans?
posted by aaronetc at 10:09 PM PST on June 27
It's not. But just because other people believe in stuff that is just as stupid or stupider does not excuse one's belief in astrology.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:19 AM on June 28, 2006
posted by aaronetc at 10:09 PM PST on June 27
It's not. But just because other people believe in stuff that is just as stupid or stupider does not excuse one's belief in astrology.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 11:19 AM on June 28, 2006
And it certainly doesn't excuse using astrology as another means to seperate the gullible from their money, which it appears that he was done in this case.
posted by empath at 11:28 AM on June 28, 2006
posted by empath at 11:28 AM on June 28, 2006
I find DailyKos, and most political blogs for that matter, boring and predictable--sort of like those annoying letters you get from candidates, parties, and other special interests asking for your money. But the above quotation from Andrew Sullivan about fanaticism never rang so true to me when I read Kos's agreement with Atrios on this day.
posted by Pacheco at 11:34 AM on June 28, 2006
posted by Pacheco at 11:34 AM on June 28, 2006
oops...here is the sullivan quote. I thought I saw it discussed somewhere here...maybe one of the links.
...just in case anyone is still reading.
posted by Pacheco at 11:39 AM on June 28, 2006
...just in case anyone is still reading.
posted by Pacheco at 11:39 AM on June 28, 2006
sourbrew,
William Jefferson? Dude, where were you? Kos and Atrios and all them howled for his head long before the Dems in Congress did anything about him.
I agree with you and rcade about Armstrong, though.
posted by hackly_fracture at 12:09 PM on June 28, 2006
William Jefferson? Dude, where were you? Kos and Atrios and all them howled for his head long before the Dems in Congress did anything about him.
I agree with you and rcade about Armstrong, though.
posted by hackly_fracture at 12:09 PM on June 28, 2006
Nixerman: Stock touting is encouraging people to buy stocks without telling them you have an interest in the stock. It's a huge ethical lapse, and anyone who cares to look will find lots of questionable postings by Armstrong on stock boards under multiple aliases. How is that not corruption? Do you think someone who does that should be entrusted with a PAC's finances?
I suspect hiring a PR consultant and launching a full on assault is exactly what a lot of people are hoping Kos will do. There's no better way to compromise his values and force him to "play the game."
Kossacks need to decide if the netroots are about winning or about "keeping it real." He says all the time it's about winning, but that doesn't seem to be sinking in.
You're not the first person to tell me that hiring a publicist is some kind of capitulation to The Man.
posted by rcade at 12:11 PM on June 28, 2006
I suspect hiring a PR consultant and launching a full on assault is exactly what a lot of people are hoping Kos will do. There's no better way to compromise his values and force him to "play the game."
Kossacks need to decide if the netroots are about winning or about "keeping it real." He says all the time it's about winning, but that doesn't seem to be sinking in.
You're not the first person to tell me that hiring a publicist is some kind of capitulation to The Man.
posted by rcade at 12:11 PM on June 28, 2006
at least when Sullivan ran the magazine, he had the good sense ... right now, TNR is just whiny
posted by matteo
I just had to save this bit of wisdom.
Sullivan was the very best TNR could hope to achieve as editor?
Probably so. :-)
WATBs
Let's discuss how Jonah Goldberg got his job at the NR Corner huh? That's fair isn't it?
"Mommy, mommy!! Don't make me work!! I just wanna drink beer and pretend to be someone!"
How about George Will "bow-tie" and how he secretly did well paid work for pols while opining on major TV networks about how the opposition were bad guys?
And you guys wanna go after a two-bit blogger?
Geez!
Is he really causing the Lieberman lovers to crap their pants?
Appears so.
How about the NYT being "guilty of treason" for publishing the facts of Bushco's criminal behavior? Doesn't that rate a bit higher than bloggers
posted by nofundy at 12:16 PM on June 28, 2006
posted by matteo
I just had to save this bit of wisdom.
Sullivan was the very best TNR could hope to achieve as editor?
Probably so. :-)
WATBs
Let's discuss how Jonah Goldberg got his job at the NR Corner huh? That's fair isn't it?
"Mommy, mommy!! Don't make me work!! I just wanna drink beer and pretend to be someone!"
How about George Will "bow-tie" and how he secretly did well paid work for pols while opining on major TV networks about how the opposition were bad guys?
And you guys wanna go after a two-bit blogger?
Geez!
Is he really causing the Lieberman lovers to crap their pants?
Appears so.
How about the NYT being "guilty of treason" for publishing the facts of Bushco's criminal behavior? Doesn't that rate a bit higher than bloggers
posted by nofundy at 12:16 PM on June 28, 2006
I used to read Kos, then some months ago he sent a long string of nasty emails to people, which were published, and which left a really bad taste in my mouth: the tone he used, the approach.
His website exploded in popularity, and suddenly its all because of Markos.
He strikes me as a foul smelling huckster. I'll stick with Think Progress and TPM, etc., which seemed to be steered by more balanced authors.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 12:18 PM on June 28, 2006
His website exploded in popularity, and suddenly its all because of Markos.
He strikes me as a foul smelling huckster. I'll stick with Think Progress and TPM, etc., which seemed to be steered by more balanced authors.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 12:18 PM on June 28, 2006
I didn't know this ... what nasty e-mails did he send? To people — what people? Other bloggers? Politicians? Where were they published? On Daily Kos?
Kos does seem to have kind of an occasional mean streak, I've thought in the past, which I think is part of what makes him appealing to the Kos crowd. But many political bloggers have a mean streak, if not a sociopathic streak, so this is not really a characteristic that is unique to Kos. And being mean and nasty in the political blogworld has the advantage, or disadvantage, depending on your POV, of making you stand out.
posted by blucevalo at 1:16 PM on June 28, 2006
Kos does seem to have kind of an occasional mean streak, I've thought in the past, which I think is part of what makes him appealing to the Kos crowd. But many political bloggers have a mean streak, if not a sociopathic streak, so this is not really a characteristic that is unique to Kos. And being mean and nasty in the political blogworld has the advantage, or disadvantage, depending on your POV, of making you stand out.
posted by blucevalo at 1:16 PM on June 28, 2006
Kos does not run the ad network.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:01 PM on June 28, 2006
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:01 PM on June 28, 2006
This is an interesting quote. But where is your source for this quote? Are you now in the business of repeating sourceless quotes?
One of the nice things about the internet is that you can google the plain text of any quote to find the origional source.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:16 PM on June 28, 2006
One of the nice things about the internet is that you can google the plain text of any quote to find the origional source.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:16 PM on June 28, 2006
Anyway, I personally find Kos to be a giant jackass. And apperantly ethically challanged as well. I always wondered why Mark Warner got so much praise in the liberal blogsphere when he appeared to be another DLC type that most of those people hated.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:31 PM on June 28, 2006
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:31 PM on June 28, 2006
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posted by empath at 6:28 PM on June 27, 2006