Foley To Resign Over Sexually Explicit Messages to Minors
September 29, 2006 12:25 PM   Subscribe

I guess sometimes when there's smoke there *is* fire. As a followup to our discussion yesterday about Congressman Mark Foley and his questionable emails to a 16 year old former page, sexually explicit IMs have now come to light, and the Congressman submitted his resignation in a letter late this afternoon to Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert.
posted by MythMaker (98 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: yesterday, this was posted yesterday, you said it, post this IN THE THREAD, from yesterday.



 
God damnit. I can't believe I defended this guy. Ah well. Interesting that he was one of the ones up there fighting to get tougher on internet pedophiles and stuff.
posted by delmoi at 12:30 PM on September 29, 2006


people like him seem to be regularly in positions where it's expected to be uppity and righteous.
posted by moonbird at 12:34 PM on September 29, 2006


Is this guy on suicide watch?
posted by thefreek at 12:34 PM on September 29, 2006


I wonder if Perverted Justice has anything on him.
posted by MegoSteve at 12:36 PM on September 29, 2006


Let's not jump to conclusions here! Maybe he was just drafting a resignation letter for a friend and he was asking Congress to proof read it for him. It's really sad that an adult can't even draft a resignation letter without being accused of resigning! So what if he likes write resignation letters? Does it mean he really a quitter? No!
posted by StarForce5 at 12:37 PM on September 29, 2006


I think when a Republican Congressman resigns from office because of pedophilia that it's worthy of its own FPP, IMHO.
posted by MythMaker at 12:38 PM on September 29, 2006


There are occasional instances where a person is both a homosexual and a pedophile.
This appears to be one of them.
The priesthood is another.
posted by nofundy at 12:39 PM on September 29, 2006


God damnit. I can't believe I defended this guy.

You're all about giving a voice to the voiceless these days.

(I'm kidding!)
posted by joseph_elmhurst at 12:39 PM on September 29, 2006


I eagerly await the IM trnascripts.
Now if we can get photos of Falwell sodomizing/fellating an animal...
posted by nofundy at 12:41 PM on September 29, 2006


The priesthood is another.

Come now, no fundy, not all priests are homosexual pedophiles.

Some are alcoholics.
posted by jonmc at 12:42 PM on September 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


Interesting that he was one of the ones up there fighting to get tougher on internet pedophiles and stuff.

Kind of predictable, actually... the way that it's often people who need therapy who become therapists, that sort of thing. Perhaps this was his way to engage with the subject of his conflicted desires without identifying himself with them.

At any event, I want to call him an idiot, if I didn't know how human a failing it is to have one's lust overrun one's common sense.
posted by jokeefe at 12:42 PM on September 29, 2006


I still don't think being attracted to teenagers makes you a pedophile. It's pretty pathetic, but it's not 'perverted'. I did say in the other thread that the emails were 'inappropriate' and that I thought they might cost him the election.
posted by delmoi at 12:42 PM on September 29, 2006


delmoi, don't feel bad about defending the guy. You defended him based on the slim evidence against him. Sometimes when there's smoke, there's only smoke. It's important not to condemn someone on the basis of a little inappropriateness such as was the case yesterday. There's too much of that nowadays.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:43 PM on September 29, 2006


I agree with delmoi.


posted by thirteenkiller at 12:44 PM on September 29, 2006


huh, well I think it is ok to seperate out the two reporting incidents, based on what was known yesterday I too would have defended the fellow, but this is a case where futher information seriously changes the ballgame, so no worries delmoi.

And now, I can allow myself to feel ok about seeing another republican go down in flames. woot.
posted by edgeways at 12:45 PM on September 29, 2006


I'm not defending the guy, but asking for a picture is now a "sexually explicit" message? Perhaps there's more that we haven't seen yet.
posted by mrbill at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2006


Point conceded jonmc. :-)

(typo -- transcripts)
posted by nofundy at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2006


I think when a Republican Congressman resigns from office because of pedophilia that it's worthy of its own FPP

A republican who is the chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, no less.
posted by shawnj at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2006


Hours earlier, ABC News had read excerpts of instant messages provided by former male pages who said the congressman, under the AOL Instant Messenger screen name Maf54, made repeated references to sexual organs and acts.

Oh. That'll teach me to read the post first.
posted by mrbill at 12:47 PM on September 29, 2006


Pay attention mrbill. There's new stuff out there.
posted by nofundy at 12:48 PM on September 29, 2006


Good thing the sex offender registration laws were overhauled in July.
posted by smackfu at 12:48 PM on September 29, 2006


never mind mrbill, I see you've taken corrective action
posted by nofundy at 12:49 PM on September 29, 2006


Should be posted in previous thread. Flagged.

Why should it be posted in the previous thread? It's a big news story in and of itself. Foley wasn't resigning when the previous thread was posted.
posted by blucevalo at 12:49 PM on September 29, 2006


BigFoley69: r u safe from hurrican? im worried about ur safety
XtimX_87: yeah im fine
BigFoley69: tats good.
BigFoley69: i haf to resign from congress today
XtimX_87: y?
BigFoley69: evry1 thinks im a ped.
XtimX_87: o rly?
BigFoley69: ya rly.
BigFoley69: i still want 2 show u my privates
XtimX_87: sick sick sick sick sick sick

posted by dead_ at 12:51 PM on September 29, 2006 [6 favorites]


A republican who is the chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, no less.

Brilliant. The next question - is he a pedophile or just one of many self-hating Republican homosexuals?
posted by docpops at 12:51 PM on September 29, 2006


Depressing, people are kinda pathetic. I wonder if someone like Foley would end up less pathetic and creepy-pedophile-y if they weren't closeted. [See priests.]
posted by ClaudiaCenter at 12:52 PM on September 29, 2006


ROTFLOL @ dead_
posted by thefreek at 12:52 PM on September 29, 2006


BigFoley69: i still want 2 show u my privates

Isn't he on the Armed Forces Committee? Maybe he meant soldiers.
posted by jonmc at 12:53 PM on September 29, 2006


looks like he probably would have won the race (as of two weeks ago)
posted by edgeways at 12:54 PM on September 29, 2006


Q: Where does a general keep his armies?
A: In his sleevies.
Q: Where does a general keep his privates?
A: ...
posted by Faint of Butt at 12:54 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


im in ur congress molestin ur pages
posted by empath at 12:56 PM on September 29, 2006 [3 favorites]


Maybe he can sell his story to Carl Hiassen.
posted by docpops at 12:57 PM on September 29, 2006


I guess XQUZYPHYR, my point was as a default I would prefer the GOP to be kicked out, but I would also prefer it be for legitimate reasons. As of yesterday it looked like poor reasons, and much todo about nothing. Today is different.
posted by edgeways at 12:58 PM on September 29, 2006


Am I incorrect, or did someone yesterday not mention that the age of consent in Washington D.C. is 16? Is that true? The link presented here mentions that the pages were "under 18" but doesn't actually say what the law is in that state.
posted by The God Complex at 12:59 PM on September 29, 2006


Is this guy on suicide watch?

No, that's T.O.
posted by fixedgear at 12:59 PM on September 29, 2006


empath, at this point I think that should still only be im in ur congress proposishunin ur pages
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 1:02 PM on September 29, 2006


But here's a serious question though, if these had been teenaged girls would the situation be different? It just seems that there is a huge double standard between teenaged homosexuality and teenage heterosexuality.

I remember a case a while back about two teenaged boys, one 17 and one 14 or something. If they had been of opposite genders, it wouldn't be illegal, but because they were the same gender it was.

Personally I think "old man, teenaged girl" is pretty bad; I mean there's such a power imbalance there. On the other hand "older woman, teenaged boy", hell I was wishing that would happen when I was that age.

So then what about a relationship between an adult gay man and a teenaged gay boy? Is that closer to the old man/young girl situation, or the old woman/young boy situation?

Now on the fourth hand, clearly adult gay men should not be hitting on teenaged straight guys. That's obviously going to freak them out.
posted by delmoi at 1:02 PM on September 29, 2006


Foley's actions based on the emails we had before was pretty inappropriate and it is not surprising that there is more out there. There are ways to speak to 16-year olds, but 50+ year old men should not be speaking as if he is one of them.
posted by bperk at 1:05 PM on September 29, 2006


The link presented here mentions that the pages were "under 18" but doesn't actually say what the law is in that state.

I think other laws might be involved. Is it illegal to have sexually explicit conversations with minors? I infer this from the ABC News headline: Foley Resigns Over Sexually Explicit Messages to Minors.
posted by ericb at 1:05 PM on September 29, 2006


I agree this shoulda been added to the previous post, even if you had the actual IM transcripts, but maybe that's not the way MF works. I don't think we need more than one Mark Foley post. Flagged as double.</small?
posted by mrgrimm at 1:06 PM on September 29, 2006


There are ways to speak to 16-year olds, but 50+ year old men should not be speaking as if he is one of them.

"Trisha Biggers Peterson, a Gainesville mental health counselor and consultant to businesses on sexual harassment issues, called the e-mails 'troubling.'

'What's most troubling to me is it's a peer letter. It's not an appropriate letter for a 52-year-old and a 16-year-old,' said Biggers Peterson. 'They're not age mates at all in any shape or form.' [source]
posted by ericb at 1:07 PM on September 29, 2006


"age mates"?
posted by boo_radley at 1:09 PM on September 29, 2006


shawnj : A republican who is the chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children, no less.

Wow, the current climate must really have me jaded, because this didn't surprise me at all. At this point I almost expect these people to be corrupt in the manner that will be the most sad and ironic when it comes to light.

delmoi : I still don't think being attracted to teenagers makes you a pedophile.

Agreed. I've always felt the definition of pedophile was someone who is attracted to pre-pubescence. At 16 some people don't look much different than they do at 21.

docpops : Brilliant. The next question - is he a pedophile or just one of many self-hating Republican homosexuals?

Ding ding ding! I think we have a winner.
posted by quin at 1:10 PM on September 29, 2006


As in sick sick sick sick sick?
posted by toma at 1:11 PM on September 29, 2006


That's funny, it didn't seem to me like the emails were a big deal, but I guess that there's a whole mess of skeletons inside Foley's closet that he doesn't want to see exposed...
posted by clevershark at 1:11 PM on September 29, 2006


What kind of child protection bills did he sponsor?
posted by empath at 1:13 PM on September 29, 2006


Interesting. Here's a Foley-sponsored amendment.
H.R.5749
Title: To amend title 18, United States Code, to protect youth from exploitation by adults using the Internet, and for other purposes.

Sponsor: Rep Foley, Mark [FL-16] (introduced 7/10/2006)
Hoisted by his own petard.
posted by ericb at 1:13 PM on September 29, 2006 [2 favorites]


If I'm reading the DC Code correctly (and I very well may not be), the age of consent in DC is 16 (DC ST § 46-403).
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:15 PM on September 29, 2006


We also don't know how old these former pages were or even if they merrily participated in the IMing.

ABC is reporting that they were/are minors. As above -- "Foley Resigns Over Sexually Explicit Messages to Minors."

BTW -- the congressional page program is for junior high school boys and girls.
posted by ericb at 1:15 PM on September 29, 2006


Am I incorrect, or did someone yesterday not mention that the age of consent in Washington D.C. is 16? Is that true?

It is in DC, but in Florida it's 18, (unless you are under 24, in which case it's 16). I don't know what the law says about underage chats.
posted by delmoi at 1:16 PM on September 29, 2006


yep. Kid had good instincts. That's why we need to listen when they say they thought something was wrong
posted by Ironmouth at 1:16 PM on September 29, 2006


I think other laws might be involved. Is it illegal to have sexually explicit conversations with minors? I infer this from the ABC News headline: Foley Resigns Over Sexually Explicit Messages to Minors.

Well, there's no question they're minors. But it would be a bit strange if it was legal to sleep with someone that was sixteen but not have sexually explicit conversations with them.

Honestly, I don't think that politically it necessarily matters, since his campaign would have been hooped either way.
posted by The God Complex at 1:16 PM on September 29, 2006


H.R.1142: To protect children from exploitive child modeling.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:16 PM on September 29, 2006


BTW -- the congressional page program is for junior high school boys and girls.

Really? The kid who got the emails was 16, and the ones who got in trouble in the 80s had slept with people who were 16 and 17.
posted by delmoi at 1:17 PM on September 29, 2006


I still don't think being attracted to teenagers makes you a pedophile.
posted by delmoi at 12:42 PM PST


If they are eighTEEN and nineTEEN, you'd be right.

To make your attraction known to others, you need to preform some action.

Because thought is still not a crime...well most thought.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:18 PM on September 29, 2006


Maybe he can sell his story to Carl Hiassen.

Exactly what I was thinking.
posted by fshgrl at 1:18 PM on September 29, 2006


I thought that I had read that they were junior high-schoolers...but just found this:
"To be eligible for the summer program, applicants must be 16 years of age at the time of their appointment, have a “B” average or better, and be willing to serve as a page for approximately one month during the summer before or after their junior year of high school."
So, they are juniors. Piss poor memory on that one!
posted by ericb at 1:19 PM on September 29, 2006


Congressional Page Program
posted by ericb at 1:19 PM on September 29, 2006


Thanks for clearing that up.
posted by The God Complex at 1:20 PM on September 29, 2006


I agree that this thread should have just been more of the original post from ericb. At the very least, it's stealing the original poster's (ericb's) thunder. Flagged.
posted by bim at 1:21 PM on September 29, 2006




Maybe he can sell his story to Carl Hiassen.

Carl Monday imo.
posted by The God Complex at 1:22 PM on September 29, 2006


delmoi wrote:
I remember a case a while back about two teenaged boys, one 17 and one 14 or something. If they had been of opposite genders, it wouldn't be illegal, but because they were the same gender it was.

That case was State v. Limon. An 18 year-old gave a bj to a 14 year-old and received a 17 year sentence (which was later reversed).

Appellate Opinion * Supreme Court Opinion * Analysis
posted by karson at 1:23 PM on September 29, 2006


In DC the marrage age of consent is 18, 16 with parential consent. Sex AOC is 16, and no current law as to homosexual activity, which indicated it is the same age as hetrosexual.
But... it may well be local laws that apply as the activity occured after the page left DC, and in Florida all homsexual activity is tecnically illgial :(

I don't know, I think the contact was inapropiate, but more so from a power/employeer sort of angle, rather than inapropiate contact.
posted by edgeways at 1:24 PM on September 29, 2006


Wow, total irony if he gets tagged with tougher penalties that he helped pass. That would be an interesting sentencing hearing.
posted by Ironmouth at 1:25 PM on September 29, 2006


Quite the headline from Rolling Stone's blog: Rep. Foley Turns a Page
posted by icosahedral at 1:25 PM on September 29, 2006


Foley sponsored a bunch of relevant legislation.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:27 PM on September 29, 2006


Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be pages.
posted by fleetmouse at 1:28 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Worth quoting mr_crash_davis from the other thread:

"Congressmen don't use bookmarks, 'cause they like their pages bent over."
posted by ericb at 1:35 PM on September 29, 2006


Title I: Protection of Children From Predators - Amends the Federal criminal code to prohibit, and set penalties for, using the mail or any facility or means of interstate or foreign commerce to knowingly initiate the transmission of the name, address, telephone number, social security number, or electronic mail address of a person under age 16 with intent to entice, encourage, offer, or solicit any person to engage in illegal sexual activity.

Well, maybe that's why there's an age requirement for pages.
posted by thirteenkiller at 1:39 PM on September 29, 2006


You know, when I first read this, I thought, "Well, I probably shouldn't have defended him in the other thread, but even Republicans are innocent until proven guilty."

But then, as I was making tea, I thought... "Hmm... considering the legislation this guy just signed.... and his admission of guilt and resignation.... we oughta set him up with a nice waterboarding session.

"I bet this guy also killed JonBenet Ramsey! I just know a good waterboarding session will prove it."

Hey... at least we have a confession. A whole lotta Arabs getting their testicles fried haven't admitted to as much as Mr. Foley.
posted by Malor at 1:39 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


Anyone remember the male congresskritter who got raked over the coals a few years ago for commenting 'its sweater day' and touched a boobie?
posted by rough ashlar at 1:40 PM on September 29, 2006


we oughta set him up with a nice waterboarding session.

Others agree: Waterboard GOP Rep. Mark Foley.
posted by ericb at 1:41 PM on September 29, 2006


What has Foley admitted to and confessed?
"'I am deeply sorry and I apologize for letting down my family and the people of Florida I have had the privilege to represent,'he said in a statement issued by his office.

The two-sentence statement did not refer to the e-mails and gave no reason for Foley's decision to abruptly abandon a flourishing career in Congress."
[source]
posted by ericb at 1:44 PM on September 29, 2006


CNN has not once said the word "gay" or any euphemism when reporting this story all day.
posted by amberglow at 1:44 PM on September 29, 2006


we oughta set him up with a nice waterboarding session.

Others agree: Waterboard GOP Rep. Mark Foley.


Oh man... that is so damn good! Bravo...
posted by BobFrapples at 1:46 PM on September 29, 2006


what's that saying about getting caught with a "live boy or dead girl"?
posted by amberglow at 1:46 PM on September 29, 2006


The comments under the Blotter article broke my brain.
posted by peep at 1:48 PM on September 29, 2006


You get less wet by running in the rain
Actual mathematical equations devoted to this popular question have suggested it is true, though not for the simple reasons you might think.


This has been discussed here before. There is another term of art that applys regarding very young people past puberty.
posted by StickyCarpet at 1:50 PM on September 29, 2006


Huh? Sorry, wrong quote.
posted by StickyCarpet at 1:52 PM on September 29, 2006




Chris Matthews on the Foley situation [video].
posted by ericb at 2:04 PM on September 29, 2006


There's nothing sick or wrong about being attracted to teenagers as an adult. The problem is if you act on them. Our society is constructed in such a way that relationships between adults and teenagers are usually tremendously damaging to the teenagers involved, emotionally, intellectually, etc. There's too much of a power imbalance and teenagers can easily make impulsive decisions that could seriously wreck their future.
posted by empath at 2:04 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]




So who's next? Dreier? Mehlman? Graham? ...
posted by amberglow at 2:06 PM on September 29, 2006


Mehlman.

There's some breaking news about him engaging in some quid-pro-quo with Abramoff.
posted by empath at 2:09 PM on September 29, 2006


XQUZYPHYR writes "Florida law sez the GOP can replace the candidate, but not the name on the ballot. In other words, the Democrats just won this seat."

Does this mean the GOP candidate would have to be a write in?
posted by Mitheral at 2:11 PM on September 29, 2006


What's with the e-mails? ;)

E-mails Suggest Mehlman Arranged Fed Funds for Abramoff Contributions.
posted by ericb at 2:12 PM on September 29, 2006


Ken Mehlman, Abramoff's "Rock Star."
posted by ericb at 2:13 PM on September 29, 2006


Good god, he got caught propositioning a 16-year-old intern. Putting aside the whole question of gender, does anyone really think that the 'age of consent' is the dispositive issue in his resignation?
posted by spiderwire at 2:14 PM on September 29, 2006


Looks like folks could use "self-destructing" email from Kablooey Mail.
posted by ericb at 2:15 PM on September 29, 2006


ericb, first link is broken.

This is not nearly sufficient schadenfreude for the whole destruction-of-habeas-corpus thing, but I guess I'll take what I can get going into the weekend.
posted by spiderwire at 2:16 PM on September 29, 2006


What a dumb shit! And FWIW, in re: the "16 is age of consent" deal - Any 52-yr old person, male or female, that attempts to take advantage of my kids would earn punches in the nose, neck, and nads.
posted by Mister_A at 2:16 PM on September 29, 2006


Let me get this straight:

Democrats soft on terrorism.

Republicans hard on teenagers?
posted by NationalKato at 2:17 PM on September 29, 2006 [1 favorite]


No -- I think it has to do with laws regarding sexually explicit conversations with minors -- and pending amendments which Foley himself has sponsored (as upthread):
H.R.5749

Title: To amend title 18, United States Code, to protect youth from exploitation by adults using the Internet, and for other purposes.

Sponsor: Rep Foley, Mark [FL-16]
posted by ericb at 2:20 PM on September 29, 2006


Sorry -- correct link: E-mails Suggest Mehlman Arranged Fed Funds for Abramoff Contributions.
posted by ericb at 2:23 PM on September 29, 2006


It's called ephebophilia or hebephilia.
posted by cookie-k at 2:23 PM on September 29, 2006


There must be really really sick or filthy stuff that's not being released or reported on--otherwise he would have tried to stay.

At least Barney Frank only had a scandal concerning another adult. Frank on coming out: ..."I helped change the rules. I came out publicly," he says. "At first, I thought my private life would keep me from having an elected career. Then I thought I could have an elected career but at the expense of a personal life, and then I realized that that was crazy. When you try to make your public career a substitute for your private life, you wind up screwing up both of them. The electorate becomes your lover, and that's not healthy. ...
posted by amberglow at 2:27 PM on September 29, 2006


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