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October 20, 2006 10:39 AM Subscribe
I wish I had something to add, but really, Kevin Tillman said it better in this letter than I ever could.
Thanks, EarBucket for posting this.
posted by JAHxman at 10:50 AM on October 20, 2006
Thanks, EarBucket for posting this.
posted by JAHxman at 10:50 AM on October 20, 2006
I hope Mr. Tillman is able to reach a broader audience between now and Nov. 7.
posted by Mister_A at 10:52 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by Mister_A at 10:52 AM on October 20, 2006
"Somehow I signed up for this."
Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.
posted by prostyle at 10:56 AM on October 20, 2006
Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.
posted by prostyle at 10:56 AM on October 20, 2006
Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.
I also liked the part in the movie where V got everybody to dress up in Guy Fawkes masques. That was cool.
posted by CheeseburgerBrown at 10:58 AM on October 20, 2006
I also liked the part in the movie where V got everybody to dress up in Guy Fawkes masques. That was cool.
posted by CheeseburgerBrown at 10:58 AM on October 20, 2006
For the haters: this guy is expressing many of the same viewpoints held by some good friends of mine who are in the military. I'm glad that more and more military personnel are thinking like this. There are a lot of them, and they vote.
posted by gurple at 11:10 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by gurple at 11:10 AM on October 20, 2006
"I'm glad that more and more military personnel are thinking like this. There are a lot of them, and they vote."
And they've got guns. Don't forget the part about their having guns, too.
posted by Mike D at 11:13 AM on October 20, 2006
And they've got guns. Don't forget the part about their having guns, too.
posted by Mike D at 11:13 AM on October 20, 2006
And they've got guns. Don't forget the part about their having guns, too.
Guns? Nah, that's the Old Army. Now, for extra difficulty they're supposed to end the civil war we've started in Iraq using only finger puppets and interpretive dance.
posted by gurple at 11:17 AM on October 20, 2006
Guns? Nah, that's the Old Army. Now, for extra difficulty they're supposed to end the civil war we've started in Iraq using only finger puppets and interpretive dance.
posted by gurple at 11:17 AM on October 20, 2006
Great piece.
Thanks.
May we grant his deceased brother the birthday gift that is appropriate by putting the brakes on Bush and his Rubber Stamp Congress this November 7th.
Did anyone read the comments?
There's a real gem down there that goes "it's all the fault of the jews!" Jeez, what a nut, made me feel I was at freeper central or redstate or little green snotballs.
posted by nofundy at 11:22 AM on October 20, 2006
Thanks.
May we grant his deceased brother the birthday gift that is appropriate by putting the brakes on Bush and his Rubber Stamp Congress this November 7th.
Did anyone read the comments?
There's a real gem down there that goes "it's all the fault of the jews!" Jeez, what a nut, made me feel I was at freeper central or redstate or little green snotballs.
posted by nofundy at 11:22 AM on October 20, 2006
Oh, man.
I can't wait for this letter to become mainstream and see how the base questions his courage, and his committment, and his patriotism, and his ability to understand the threat s we face.
posted by sfts2 at 11:24 AM on October 20, 2006
I can't wait for this letter to become mainstream and see how the base questions his courage, and his committment, and his patriotism, and his ability to understand the threat s we face.
posted by sfts2 at 11:24 AM on October 20, 2006
Somehow this all happened, and somehow it will start to change after Nov. 7.
*crosses fingers
posted by caddis at 11:25 AM on October 20, 2006
*crosses fingers
posted by caddis at 11:25 AM on October 20, 2006
This is good:
Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.
posted by jayder at 11:31 AM on October 20, 2006
Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.
posted by jayder at 11:31 AM on October 20, 2006
Here's the full jew comment:
Why anyone would go to fight in this jew instigated war and die for them is beyond me.
Kerry would have been no different as the jews owned him too and will control the next president no matter who it it.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bushlist.htm
http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/jewish.htm
They also control the house and Senate.
http://www.wrmea.com/html/aipac.htm
It’s a sorry situation when 2% of the population controles the whole country.
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!
He got the 2% right, he just assigned it to the wrong 2%.
posted by spicynuts at 11:33 AM on October 20, 2006
Why anyone would go to fight in this jew instigated war and die for them is beyond me.
Kerry would have been no different as the jews owned him too and will control the next president no matter who it it.
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/bushlist.htm
http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/jewish.htm
They also control the house and Senate.
http://www.wrmea.com/html/aipac.htm
It’s a sorry situation when 2% of the population controles the whole country.
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!
He got the 2% right, he just assigned it to the wrong 2%.
posted by spicynuts at 11:33 AM on October 20, 2006
Somehow nobody is accountable for this.
He forgot about Bill Clinton.
posted by triolus at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2006
He forgot about Bill Clinton.
posted by triolus at 11:34 AM on October 20, 2006
...see how the base questions his courage...
Isn't it curious how "the base" has come to mean the most extreme right-wing section of America, while in Arabic it refers to another unloveable group?
I think I'm anti-basist. Not anti-bassist, before any musicians complain.
posted by imperium at 11:35 AM on October 20, 2006
Isn't it curious how "the base" has come to mean the most extreme right-wing section of America, while in Arabic it refers to another unloveable group?
I think I'm anti-basist. Not anti-bassist, before any musicians complain.
posted by imperium at 11:35 AM on October 20, 2006
...while in Arabic it refers to another unloveable group?
"Al-Qaeda," states "literally ‘the database', was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."
posted by prostyle at 11:40 AM on October 20, 2006
"Al-Qaeda," states "literally ‘the database', was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."
posted by prostyle at 11:40 AM on October 20, 2006
This situation didnt start overnight as Tillman suggests it did. I believe Pat (not sure about the brother) were/are lifelong republicans. The policies of that party have been crazy for decades. I guess these guys had to learn it firsthand while more people grok it by their late teens/early 20s. I doubt this little essay is going anywhere. It old news to everyone and the rest, it seems, can only change their minds after serving and losing a loved one in battle.
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:44 AM on October 20, 2006
posted by damn dirty ape at 11:44 AM on October 20, 2006
"Al-Qaeda," states "literally ‘the database'
Not literally "data" base but that is where the reference came from.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:00 PM on October 20, 2006
Not literally "data" base but that is where the reference came from.
posted by sonofsamiam at 12:00 PM on October 20, 2006
imperium : I think I'm anti-basist.
My father was a piece of bed-rock, so I take exception to your attitude.
posted by quin at 12:02 PM on October 20, 2006
My father was a piece of bed-rock, so I take exception to your attitude.
posted by quin at 12:02 PM on October 20, 2006
he clearly is an unhinged liberal coward who roots for the enemy. I also suspect he's Cindy Sheehan secret lover. and he wants Nancy Pelosi to steal the Presidency
posted by matteo at 12:16 PM on October 20, 2006
posted by matteo at 12:16 PM on October 20, 2006
"Al-Qaeda," states "literally ‘the database', was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."
That's one of the danger of Wikipedia articles. That very article, itself, gives alternate possible origins for the name, in a different section. (Note there are "Etymology and origin of the name" and "Notes on naming" sections, not near each other within the article, and both with possible origins of the name. And yes, I'm aware I can improve it, and maybe I will later, but that's not something I can do in a minute or two, at least not to the standards I hold myself to.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:37 PM on October 20, 2006
That's one of the danger of Wikipedia articles. That very article, itself, gives alternate possible origins for the name, in a different section. (Note there are "Etymology and origin of the name" and "Notes on naming" sections, not near each other within the article, and both with possible origins of the name. And yes, I'm aware I can improve it, and maybe I will later, but that's not something I can do in a minute or two, at least not to the standards I hold myself to.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 1:37 PM on October 20, 2006
Good thing there was no prior evidence that US wars are created by and large for the sake of corporate imperialism.
Kevin Tillman wasn't born yesterday, but he must have been born sometime after Gulf War One. He needs to say he's sorry. Kevin, tell us that you're sorry for being part of the problem. Because the folks pulling Bush's strings couldn't have had these wars without help from folks like you.
He grabbed a gun and went to burn women, kids, houses and villages and the only people responsible for it are the people who told him to do it? And would he even care if his brother wasn't ghastly dead?
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:09 PM on October 20, 2006
Kevin Tillman wasn't born yesterday, but he must have been born sometime after Gulf War One. He needs to say he's sorry. Kevin, tell us that you're sorry for being part of the problem. Because the folks pulling Bush's strings couldn't have had these wars without help from folks like you.
He grabbed a gun and went to burn women, kids, houses and villages and the only people responsible for it are the people who told him to do it? And would he even care if his brother wasn't ghastly dead?
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:09 PM on October 20, 2006
I'm sending this to my nephew at West Point. Right now, he's an open vessel into which all of this Hooah stuff is being poured. And I'm OK with that. My family has been Army for three generations. But I do want him to question even as he obeys.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 2:10 PM on October 20, 2006
posted by ereshkigal45 at 2:10 PM on October 20, 2006
Mayor:
It sounds to me like he feels like the situation has changed drastically from the time when he grabbed his gun:
It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.
Much has happened since we handed over our voice...
I think it is fair to say that a man who went into the Army thinking about eliminating al-Qaeda and the Taliban might justifiably not feel like he is part of the problem we now have in Iraq.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:40 PM on October 20, 2006
It sounds to me like he feels like the situation has changed drastically from the time when he grabbed his gun:
It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we get out.
Much has happened since we handed over our voice...
I think it is fair to say that a man who went into the Army thinking about eliminating al-Qaeda and the Taliban might justifiably not feel like he is part of the problem we now have in Iraq.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:40 PM on October 20, 2006
Not literally "data" base but that is where the reference came from.
in Against All Enemies Richard Clarke suggests that Al Qaeda means 'the foundation', like a building foundation, which jives with the bin Laden family business.
posted by carsonb at 2:53 PM on October 20, 2006
in Against All Enemies Richard Clarke suggests that Al Qaeda means 'the foundation', like a building foundation, which jives with the bin Laden family business.
posted by carsonb at 2:53 PM on October 20, 2006
I'd love to know what John McCain thinks of this letter.
posted by bardic at 3:21 PM on October 20, 2006
posted by bardic at 3:21 PM on October 20, 2006
He grabbed a gun and went to burn women, kids, houses and villages and the only people responsible for it are the people who told him to do it?
But how will you know if he's moral enough after being a litterbug?
Does anyone anywhere think this has any chance of changing the minds of people who were going to vote Republican still anyhow, assuming they'd ever even read it? You can't be talked out of something you never talked yourself into.
posted by hoborg at 3:38 PM on October 20, 2006
But how will you know if he's moral enough after being a litterbug?
Does anyone anywhere think this has any chance of changing the minds of people who were going to vote Republican still anyhow, assuming they'd ever even read it? You can't be talked out of something you never talked yourself into.
posted by hoborg at 3:38 PM on October 20, 2006
I told you so. I told you soooooo fucking so.
This is where it is starting.
When these guys come back they are going to be PISSED OFF. Some are going to be very vulnerable to the spin-masters for a time and still stomp around hating liberal pussies. But most are not going to led around so easily. they KNOW what has happened in Iraq.
So my left-leaning or independent thinking friends you had better reach out to these guys NOW. Don't fall for that smug soldier hating cynical compassionless crap. If you do we will lose for good any chance for a decent future in this country.
Returning soldiers are going to make the difference in turning the tide against these Right Wing Gilded Age village idiots that have wrought unjust war upon the world.
posted by tkchrist at 3:42 PM on October 20, 2006
This is where it is starting.
When these guys come back they are going to be PISSED OFF. Some are going to be very vulnerable to the spin-masters for a time and still stomp around hating liberal pussies. But most are not going to led around so easily. they KNOW what has happened in Iraq.
So my left-leaning or independent thinking friends you had better reach out to these guys NOW. Don't fall for that smug soldier hating cynical compassionless crap. If you do we will lose for good any chance for a decent future in this country.
Returning soldiers are going to make the difference in turning the tide against these Right Wing Gilded Age village idiots that have wrought unjust war upon the world.
posted by tkchrist at 3:42 PM on October 20, 2006
Luckily this country is still a democracy.
Can you tell hes been out of the country for a few years?
posted by eustacescrubb at 3:49 PM on October 20, 2006
Can you tell hes been out of the country for a few years?
posted by eustacescrubb at 3:49 PM on October 20, 2006
Wow. Pat and I weren't buddies but his face is one of those familiar ones--from the high school / bar hopping circuit in the San Jose / Los Gatos area. I didn't play much football, but my friends that did all knew him.
I've forwarded this to my right wing extended family, with the hope I can help them reconsider their blind faith in Bush and this god-forsaken war. Somehow I doubt I'll have any success.
posted by vaportrail at 4:07 PM on October 20, 2006
I've forwarded this to my right wing extended family, with the hope I can help them reconsider their blind faith in Bush and this god-forsaken war. Somehow I doubt I'll have any success.
posted by vaportrail at 4:07 PM on October 20, 2006
Good stuff, and considering the source, difficult for the fowl raptors to attack. Thanks for sharing, EB.
And bardic, I seriously doubt McCain even knows what he thinks any more: he's a walking case of cognitive dissonance to the infinite power.
posted by rob511 at 4:30 PM on October 20, 2006
And bardic, I seriously doubt McCain even knows what he thinks any more: he's a walking case of cognitive dissonance to the infinite power.
posted by rob511 at 4:30 PM on October 20, 2006
"He grabbed a gun and went to burn women, kids, houses and villages and the only people responsible for it are the people who told him to do it? And would he even care if his brother wasn't ghastly dead?" - posted by Mayor Curley
He burned people's villages with a gun? Also - how do you know at all what he did or didn't do personally? In addition, it must be so nice to know all the answers to everything before you take any course of action at all. Especially to be so knowlegeable as to not allow for redemption of any kind or indeed even the compassion for a grieving brother.
You remind me of those sick bastards that celebrated the killing of Saddam Hussein's sons. Same vibe, just on a different side. No reasonable compassionate person wants women or kids dead anywhere. Neither would that person show indifference to someone who's brother died and they're changing their views. No difference between you and Bush - you're both totally right all the time. Bet it was the same at 18 years old.
Why don't you cut the foreplay and join Fred Phelps now?
"So my left-leaning or independent thinking friends you had better reach out to these guys NOW. Don't fall for that smug soldier hating cynical compassionless crap." - posted by tkchrist
It ain't gonna change tk. It's the same bullshit dance that no one wakes up to. Seen the movie "Jarhead"? One of the many scenes left out of that film is when they go home for the funeral of one of their own and some local doofus starts shit with them (Grabs his head and says "You need a haircut like your dead friend"). Happens all the time. Doesn't matter what their politics are. Whether it's because they don't have the guts to serve -in whatever capacity - not involved in anything and ashamed of it and looking for an excuse to take you down a peg - and being pro-"peace" is always a good excuse - or whether they think you're an outsider or scared or whatever. Someone always higher and mighter and always looking for the exact wrong time to bring it up.
The tragic doesn't have to be wrong or right. It doesn't need a label or to be figured out. It's tragic. Tillman is dead. His brother grieves. People in Afghanistan are dead. They grieve. If we were all as smart and compassionate as Mayor Curley maybe we'd all be nice to each other and never need weapons or do the wrong thing or indeed, even be motivated to change anything (wouldn't need to - it'd all be perfect). But someone is going to want to kick someone else's ass and take their stuff and someone is going to want to put a stop to it. And someone is going to lie. Start a cause. Kill some people who look different. And maybe youre 18 and you find yourself on the wrong side. Tragic.
But I don't begruge anyone stepping back from that and trying to make amends, find the right course.
The only thing that makes those returning soliders worth a shit politically is that they will actually DO SOMETHING when the time comes. Might be the wrong thing, they might not see it, but they're willing to put their lives on the line.
So I think you're right tk - people can chose to live with them and be effective, show people the right path, or choose to be smug.
I'm just not sure they won't take the latter.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2006
He burned people's villages with a gun? Also - how do you know at all what he did or didn't do personally? In addition, it must be so nice to know all the answers to everything before you take any course of action at all. Especially to be so knowlegeable as to not allow for redemption of any kind or indeed even the compassion for a grieving brother.
You remind me of those sick bastards that celebrated the killing of Saddam Hussein's sons. Same vibe, just on a different side. No reasonable compassionate person wants women or kids dead anywhere. Neither would that person show indifference to someone who's brother died and they're changing their views. No difference between you and Bush - you're both totally right all the time. Bet it was the same at 18 years old.
Why don't you cut the foreplay and join Fred Phelps now?
"So my left-leaning or independent thinking friends you had better reach out to these guys NOW. Don't fall for that smug soldier hating cynical compassionless crap." - posted by tkchrist
It ain't gonna change tk. It's the same bullshit dance that no one wakes up to. Seen the movie "Jarhead"? One of the many scenes left out of that film is when they go home for the funeral of one of their own and some local doofus starts shit with them (Grabs his head and says "You need a haircut like your dead friend"). Happens all the time. Doesn't matter what their politics are. Whether it's because they don't have the guts to serve -in whatever capacity - not involved in anything and ashamed of it and looking for an excuse to take you down a peg - and being pro-"peace" is always a good excuse - or whether they think you're an outsider or scared or whatever. Someone always higher and mighter and always looking for the exact wrong time to bring it up.
The tragic doesn't have to be wrong or right. It doesn't need a label or to be figured out. It's tragic. Tillman is dead. His brother grieves. People in Afghanistan are dead. They grieve. If we were all as smart and compassionate as Mayor Curley maybe we'd all be nice to each other and never need weapons or do the wrong thing or indeed, even be motivated to change anything (wouldn't need to - it'd all be perfect). But someone is going to want to kick someone else's ass and take their stuff and someone is going to want to put a stop to it. And someone is going to lie. Start a cause. Kill some people who look different. And maybe youre 18 and you find yourself on the wrong side. Tragic.
But I don't begruge anyone stepping back from that and trying to make amends, find the right course.
The only thing that makes those returning soliders worth a shit politically is that they will actually DO SOMETHING when the time comes. Might be the wrong thing, they might not see it, but they're willing to put their lives on the line.
So I think you're right tk - people can chose to live with them and be effective, show people the right path, or choose to be smug.
I'm just not sure they won't take the latter.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:47 PM on October 20, 2006
I have one brother, an infinitely bright light in my life, he couldn't know just how much his words and actions have shaped me. Let alone which words and actions.
posted by unklspot at 12:19 AM on October 21, 2006
posted by unklspot at 12:19 AM on October 21, 2006
FPP was far too cryptic, difficult to find, and comprehend. A duplicate post that explained what this was about in a more conventional and understandable way was shot down the day after this one (for being a duplicate presumably). Had we be given more than the word "Somehow" to go by, this would have gotten more of the attention and the community's comment that it deserves. Save your cleverness for anagram subway maps & the like.
posted by squalor at 9:19 AM on October 22, 2006
posted by squalor at 9:19 AM on October 22, 2006
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posted by andywolf at 10:49 AM on October 20, 2006