Not Romney Says Monitor Editors
December 24, 2007 12:26 AM Subscribe
[You] might imagine [Mitt] Romney as a pragmatic moderate with liberal positions on numerous social issues and an ability to work well with Democrats. If you followed only his campaign for president, you'd swear he was a red-meat conservative, pandering to the religious right, whatever the cost. Pay attention to both, and you're left to wonder if there's anything at all at his core.
This post was deleted for the following reason: single link blog op ed filter -- jessamyn
For as much as people complain about Ron Paul being a freak, In my opinion, Mitt is much, much worse. He is completely unstable, willing to sacrifice anything (including his soul) to win.
Does anyone remember his response when asked about his favorite novel? He replied that BattleField Earth was his favorite book.
sheesh..he could have said Huckleberry Finn or anything else besides the ramblings of a crazy Satanist.
posted by kuatto at 12:53 AM on December 24, 2007
Does anyone remember his response when asked about his favorite novel? He replied that BattleField Earth was his favorite book.
sheesh..he could have said Huckleberry Finn or anything else besides the ramblings of a crazy Satanist.
posted by kuatto at 12:53 AM on December 24, 2007
sheesh..he could have said Huckleberry Finn or anything else besides the ramblings of a crazy
There, fixed that for ya.
posted by SansPoint at 1:09 AM on December 24, 2007
SansPoint writes "There, fixed that for ya."
O RLY?
posted by mullingitover at 1:18 AM on December 24, 2007
O RLY?
posted by mullingitover at 1:18 AM on December 24, 2007
Yeah, I actually meant satanist.
If I got my history right:
Hubbard's initial experiences with the occult were with the Ordo Templi Orientis lodge led by Jack Parsons. The lodge was controlled by Aleister Crowley, who most definately was a satanist. I think it's fair to say that this group leans towards satanism.
It is said that Hubbard took this experience and threw in some psychiatric nonsense and came up with scientology. Some of the Scientologist teachings have an eerie similarity to satanist beliefs.
So we have Aleister Crowley (self proclaimed Wickedest Man ever) -> Jack Parsons -> L Ron Hubbard -> Mitt Romney: "BattleField Earth is my favorite book".
There is no way in hell he mentioned that by mistake. Anyways, setting aside all these issues. I think he would sell his mother if that would get him elected. He has no foundation. In a tossup between huckabee and Mitt, I would have to take huckabee. At least he is honest about his devotion to a religious cult (baptist christianity).
posted by kuatto at 1:55 AM on December 24, 2007
If I got my history right:
Hubbard's initial experiences with the occult were with the Ordo Templi Orientis lodge led by Jack Parsons. The lodge was controlled by Aleister Crowley, who most definately was a satanist. I think it's fair to say that this group leans towards satanism.
It is said that Hubbard took this experience and threw in some psychiatric nonsense and came up with scientology. Some of the Scientologist teachings have an eerie similarity to satanist beliefs.
So we have Aleister Crowley (self proclaimed Wickedest Man ever) -> Jack Parsons -> L Ron Hubbard -> Mitt Romney: "BattleField Earth is my favorite book".
There is no way in hell he mentioned that by mistake. Anyways, setting aside all these issues. I think he would sell his mother if that would get him elected. He has no foundation. In a tossup between huckabee and Mitt, I would have to take huckabee. At least he is honest about his devotion to a religious cult (baptist christianity).
posted by kuatto at 1:55 AM on December 24, 2007
So we have Aleister Crowley (self proclaimed Wickedest Man ever) -> Jack Parsons -> L Ron Hubbard -> Mitt Romney
This thread won't be complete until we fit Hitler in there somewhere.
posted by secret about box at 2:06 AM on December 24, 2007
This thread won't be complete until we fit Hitler in there somewhere.
posted by secret about box at 2:06 AM on December 24, 2007
Well, he's Mormon. Sorry to condense your FPP into 3 words.
posted by rhizome23 at 2:29 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome23 at 2:29 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
I mourn for the loss img tags and what Paulistas could accomplish here....
posted by rhizome23 at 2:35 AM on December 24, 2007
posted by rhizome23 at 2:35 AM on December 24, 2007
So we have Aleister Crowley (self proclaimed Wickedest Man ever)
Make that most wicked dink on the eastern seaboard. Or, most influential look for biker characters in early 90's cop dramas/cutting-edge sitcoms. What a profound schmuck that guy was.
posted by maryh at 2:40 AM on December 24, 2007
Make that most wicked dink on the eastern seaboard. Or, most influential look for biker characters in early 90's cop dramas/cutting-edge sitcoms. What a profound schmuck that guy was.
posted by maryh at 2:40 AM on December 24, 2007
Battlefield Earth is his favorite book? Man, I felt so ripped off by that book, and the ones that followed. I saw it was science fiction and it was a bestseller, so I bought it, thinking it had to be at least pretty good. But it stunk! The various sequels also hit #1 on the bestseller lists, so I tried a few of them too...and they stunk worse and worse with each book! I couldn't figure out how books could suck so much, yet continue to land so high on the bestseller lists. I started thinking that *my* tastes were the ones that were warped and finally decided, so be it, if people like this schlock, that's their business, but I couldn't bring myself to like Hubbard's writing.
Years later, I discovered that Hubbardites had been enlisted to roam around New York City buying up Hubbard's books, driving them high on the bestseller lists. They weren't doing well because people thought they were good (whew, was glad to know that). They were doing well because Hubbard wanted them to, to help spread his 'message', and because he was willing to cheat the system and deceive the public for his own gain. And nothing's really changed since then. They still cheat the system and deceive the public.
posted by jamstigator at 3:20 AM on December 24, 2007
Years later, I discovered that Hubbardites had been enlisted to roam around New York City buying up Hubbard's books, driving them high on the bestseller lists. They weren't doing well because people thought they were good (whew, was glad to know that). They were doing well because Hubbard wanted them to, to help spread his 'message', and because he was willing to cheat the system and deceive the public for his own gain. And nothing's really changed since then. They still cheat the system and deceive the public.
posted by jamstigator at 3:20 AM on December 24, 2007
jamstigator, a friend of mine who used to work at a bookstore had a run-in with one of those characters. Apparently the dialogue went something like this:
Scientologist: I'd like ten copies of Battlefield Earth, please.
Clerk: [Checks computer] I'm sorry, we only have six copies in stock.
Scientologist: ...Oh. Okay. Thanks anyway. [Leaves without buying anything]
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:30 AM on December 24, 2007
Scientologist: I'd like ten copies of Battlefield Earth, please.
Clerk: [Checks computer] I'm sorry, we only have six copies in stock.
Scientologist: ...Oh. Okay. Thanks anyway. [Leaves without buying anything]
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:30 AM on December 24, 2007
The lodge was controlled by Aleister Crowley, who most definately was a satanist.
he liked to pass himself off as a satanist - his actual beliefs were quite a bit more complicated then that, made even more murky by his tendency to lie about them
it would be more accurate to call him an eclectic pagan with leanings toward black magick
Battlefield Earth is his favorite book?
i've read these books - they're not bad as long as one takes them for what they are; overly long old fashioned pulp space operas, meant to be entertaining and little else
the most damning thing i can say today about milt romney is that we all think that aleister crowley and l ron hubbard are more interesting people to discuss and they're not even running, being dead
posted by pyramid termite at 4:31 AM on December 24, 2007
he liked to pass himself off as a satanist - his actual beliefs were quite a bit more complicated then that, made even more murky by his tendency to lie about them
it would be more accurate to call him an eclectic pagan with leanings toward black magick
Battlefield Earth is his favorite book?
i've read these books - they're not bad as long as one takes them for what they are; overly long old fashioned pulp space operas, meant to be entertaining and little else
the most damning thing i can say today about milt romney is that we all think that aleister crowley and l ron hubbard are more interesting people to discuss and they're not even running, being dead
posted by pyramid termite at 4:31 AM on December 24, 2007
Crowley was a huckster. Hubbard was a kind of second-generation copy of a charlatan.
posted by rokusan at 4:52 AM on December 24, 2007
posted by rokusan at 4:52 AM on December 24, 2007
Romney is a salesman. The worst kind of salesman. No one likes salesmen.
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:30 AM on December 24, 2007
posted by fourcheesemac at 5:30 AM on December 24, 2007
Hubbard was a kind of second-generation copy of a charlatan.
No wonder Milt likes him.
Milt is a much better nickname for him, BTW.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:31 AM on December 24, 2007
No wonder Milt likes him.
Milt is a much better nickname for him, BTW.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:31 AM on December 24, 2007
I've always figured that the personal politics, religions, etc of entertainers have next to nothing with the product they produce. I'll watch movies staring Arnold Schwarzenegger despite the fact that he's a Republican, as long as the movies are entertaining in their own right.
So, I've got no problem with Hubbard's SF on the grounds that he founded the CoS. But *DAMN* is that some of the worst excuse for writing I've seen in a long time. Ugh. Just, ugh. To call the dialog wooden is an insult to wooden dialog, and the naration, ploting, characterization, etc are all just as bad if not worse than the dialog. I think I got a hundred pages or so into Battlefield Earth before I realized two important things: the writing stunk, and I didn't give a damn about any of the characters. Which is why I have no clue how the book ended, because once I realized those two things I put it down and never picked it up again.
So boo Romney for having really awful taste.
OTOH, having awful taste in reading material hardly invalidates a person's presidential goals. Being a two faced slimeball, however, should.
posted by sotonohito at 5:48 AM on December 24, 2007
So, I've got no problem with Hubbard's SF on the grounds that he founded the CoS. But *DAMN* is that some of the worst excuse for writing I've seen in a long time. Ugh. Just, ugh. To call the dialog wooden is an insult to wooden dialog, and the naration, ploting, characterization, etc are all just as bad if not worse than the dialog. I think I got a hundred pages or so into Battlefield Earth before I realized two important things: the writing stunk, and I didn't give a damn about any of the characters. Which is why I have no clue how the book ended, because once I realized those two things I put it down and never picked it up again.
So boo Romney for having really awful taste.
OTOH, having awful taste in reading material hardly invalidates a person's presidential goals. Being a two faced slimeball, however, should.
posted by sotonohito at 5:48 AM on December 24, 2007
LOL Satanism. OK, where to begin...
#1 There is an actual Church of Satan, whose adherents call themselves Satanists, and neither Aleister Crowley nor L. Ron Hubbard was ever a member. However, it should be noted that Satanists don't actually believe in Satan as a literal entity that exists, but as an archetype comparable to the Horned God representing a person's natural egoistic tendencies. Satanists believe that if people pursue their natural egoistic tendencies in an informed manner, respecting the intersection with other people, that the world will be a groovy and peaceful place. Satanism didn't originate this; in modern philosophy that idea goes back to the Marquis de Sade. Since we use the word Sadism for something else, that particular philosophy is called Egoism, and Satanists aren't the only examples.
#2 While Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, was certainly influenced by Crowley, the two never met; Crowley died in 1947 while the young LaVey was still travelling with circuses and carnivals (really). LaVey formed his church in 1966. There is also an offshoot called the Temple of Set which has pretty much the same creed as Satanism but "without Anton's ego getting in the way," as one member once explained it to me.
#3 While L. Ron Hubbard was certainly influenced by Crowley, few of his direct influences made it into Scientology dogma. Hubbard published Dianetics, generally regarded as the founding document of Scientology, around 1949. Unlike LaVey it appears that Hubbard was in direct contact with Crowley at some point; I distinctly recall reading somewhere that Crowley considered Hubbard an idiot but I can't dig it up right now.
#4 None of these people ever believed in Satan as an actual figure to be worshipped, although Crowley and LaVey liked to tweak people by pretending that they did. This was what passed for "trolling" before teh fabulous intarweb existed.
#5 I could have hyperlinked all this but it's more in the Satanist tradition to make you look it up for yourself. Google is your friend.
#6 No, I am not an adherent of any of these belief systems myself. I'm just eclectic.
posted by localroger at 5:52 AM on December 24, 2007 [4 favorites]
#1 There is an actual Church of Satan, whose adherents call themselves Satanists, and neither Aleister Crowley nor L. Ron Hubbard was ever a member. However, it should be noted that Satanists don't actually believe in Satan as a literal entity that exists, but as an archetype comparable to the Horned God representing a person's natural egoistic tendencies. Satanists believe that if people pursue their natural egoistic tendencies in an informed manner, respecting the intersection with other people, that the world will be a groovy and peaceful place. Satanism didn't originate this; in modern philosophy that idea goes back to the Marquis de Sade. Since we use the word Sadism for something else, that particular philosophy is called Egoism, and Satanists aren't the only examples.
#2 While Anton LaVey, founder of the Church of Satan, was certainly influenced by Crowley, the two never met; Crowley died in 1947 while the young LaVey was still travelling with circuses and carnivals (really). LaVey formed his church in 1966. There is also an offshoot called the Temple of Set which has pretty much the same creed as Satanism but "without Anton's ego getting in the way," as one member once explained it to me.
#3 While L. Ron Hubbard was certainly influenced by Crowley, few of his direct influences made it into Scientology dogma. Hubbard published Dianetics, generally regarded as the founding document of Scientology, around 1949. Unlike LaVey it appears that Hubbard was in direct contact with Crowley at some point; I distinctly recall reading somewhere that Crowley considered Hubbard an idiot but I can't dig it up right now.
#4 None of these people ever believed in Satan as an actual figure to be worshipped, although Crowley and LaVey liked to tweak people by pretending that they did. This was what passed for "trolling" before teh fabulous intarweb existed.
#5 I could have hyperlinked all this but it's more in the Satanist tradition to make you look it up for yourself. Google is your friend.
#6 No, I am not an adherent of any of these belief systems myself. I'm just eclectic.
posted by localroger at 5:52 AM on December 24, 2007 [4 favorites]
The Golden Dawn and Crowley had an enormous impact upon our conceptualization of ritual, and hence upon later literature, role playing games, video games, etc. Crowley was self aggrandizing but his influence is that of a literary figure, not a cult leader.
Hubbard was much worse than just a charlatan cult leader because he designed his cult to exploit the modern world.
Mitt Romney is a scary mormon with bad taste in literature.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:54 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
Hubbard was much worse than just a charlatan cult leader because he designed his cult to exploit the modern world.
Mitt Romney is a scary mormon with bad taste in literature.
posted by jeffburdges at 5:54 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
salt lake city sleeper slouches toward washington as mormon manchurian candidate!
posted by bruce at 5:59 AM on December 24, 2007
posted by bruce at 5:59 AM on December 24, 2007
Amazing how similar the movie Battlefield Earth and Mitt Romney's campaign are. Both are slowly developing train wrecks that you just can't turn away from. Coincidence? I think not.
posted by Gungho at 6:11 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Gungho at 6:11 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
But Romney has yet to explain this particular set of turnarounds in a way that convinces voters they are based on anything other than his own ambition.
Oh, I thought it was his father's unrealized ambition.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:18 AM on December 24, 2007
Oh, I thought it was his father's unrealized ambition.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:18 AM on December 24, 2007
I can't wait til the day the Republican frontrunner is an OTO adherent.
"My favorite book? Probably the Book of Enochian Magick."
In other words: Let's End all Dissent, Elect a MASON President.
posted by mattbucher at 6:19 AM on December 24, 2007
"My favorite book? Probably the Book of Enochian Magick."
In other words: Let's End all Dissent, Elect a MASON President.
posted by mattbucher at 6:19 AM on December 24, 2007
mattbucher: there have been plenty of presidents who were also freemasons.
I think freemasonry encourages some excellent characteristics in government leaders.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 6:52 AM on December 24, 2007
I think freemasonry encourages some excellent characteristics in government leaders.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 6:52 AM on December 24, 2007
I read somewhere that Dianetics became popular because it was more-or-less the first self-help book to make it into the American consciousness. It's all a bunch of mumbo-jumbo, but the latter half of the 20th-century was ripe for his message - that religion and spirituality should revolve around the self, and that enlightenment could be reached by turning inward as opposed to performing selfless acts. In this, his message seems remarkably similar to that of Crowley, Sade, et al, and remarkably different from that of the Mormons, who, say what you like about them, seem to be rather community-minded.
posted by Afroblanco at 6:59 AM on December 24, 2007
posted by Afroblanco at 6:59 AM on December 24, 2007
So we have Aleister Crowley (self proclaimed Wickedest Man ever) -> Jack Parsons -> L Ron Hubbard -> Mitt Romney
This thread won't be complete until we fit Hitler in there somewhere.
Well did you know that Hitler is secretly Romney's father in a large black robot suit??? Merry Christmas all.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 7:02 AM on December 24, 2007
This thread won't be complete until we fit Hitler in there somewhere.
Well did you know that Hitler is secretly Romney's father in a large black robot suit??? Merry Christmas all.
posted by Mastercheddaar at 7:02 AM on December 24, 2007
To Do What Mitt Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of Our Law.
posted by Balisong at 7:06 AM on December 24, 2007
posted by Balisong at 7:06 AM on December 24, 2007
One of the best articles I've read on Romney is Making Mitt Romney: How to fabricate a conservative, which is well worth reading (previously).
posted by chunking express at 7:10 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by chunking express at 7:10 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
You know, all things considered, I'm far more worried about Scientologists than Satanists.
And besides, while I'm sure Battlefield Earth is a horrid book (never read it, on account of the fact that what I have read of Hubbard's struck me as hackery of the first order), it should stand or fall on its own merits (or lack thereof). Hubbard's religious quackery and the quality of his novels have no correlation.
posted by Target Practice at 7:15 AM on December 24, 2007
And besides, while I'm sure Battlefield Earth is a horrid book (never read it, on account of the fact that what I have read of Hubbard's struck me as hackery of the first order), it should stand or fall on its own merits (or lack thereof). Hubbard's religious quackery and the quality of his novels have no correlation.
posted by Target Practice at 7:15 AM on December 24, 2007
I nearly lost it when Colbert Report started giving an update on Mitt Romney, and while talking about him, without further comment, used footage of Guy Smiley, the game show host muppet from Sesame Street.
Actually Guy Smiley would probably be a better candidate, for his pro-monster, pro-talking-animal, and pro-new-cars-for-everyone positions.
posted by JHarris at 7:37 AM on December 24, 2007
Actually Guy Smiley would probably be a better candidate, for his pro-monster, pro-talking-animal, and pro-new-cars-for-everyone positions.
posted by JHarris at 7:37 AM on December 24, 2007
Baby_Balrog: I didn't say let's elect the first mason president. I am a Mason so I am aware of Masonic presidents. I just think it's funny that, to some, being interested in OTO = Satanist.
posted by mattbucher at 7:55 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by mattbucher at 7:55 AM on December 24, 2007 [1 favorite]
That asshats like Romney are actual presidential candidates is a sad, frightening reality check.
posted by dbiedny at 7:56 AM on December 24, 2007
posted by dbiedny at 7:56 AM on December 24, 2007
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