Should Assholes be Let Off the Hook?
April 4, 2008 7:00 PM Subscribe
Canadian politician. He spews hateful words nearly twenty years ago. Apologizes broadly and with humility. Goes on the record repudiating his vulgar mindset of the time. Should he be forgiven? Probably not.
The guy's apology is superb, IMO. I was perfectly ready to feel that he'd probably changed his beliefs over the past twenty years: the clue-by-four works in mysterious ways. But with a little digging, I've changed my mind. This internet, it can be an interesting political tool.
On the other hand, it wouldn't be so necessary if the media were doing a better job. Even the CBC (which is how I first learned about this) fails to present the pertinent facts.
At least, I think I've changed my mind. I'd hate to throw the guy to the sharks if he really has been struck by the clue-by-four. I want to believe. sigh.
The guy's apology is superb, IMO. I was perfectly ready to feel that he'd probably changed his beliefs over the past twenty years: the clue-by-four works in mysterious ways. But with a little digging, I've changed my mind. This internet, it can be an interesting political tool.
On the other hand, it wouldn't be so necessary if the media were doing a better job. Even the CBC (which is how I first learned about this) fails to present the pertinent facts.
At least, I think I've changed my mind. I'd hate to throw the guy to the sharks if he really has been struck by the clue-by-four. I want to believe. sigh.
This post was deleted for the following reason: save the editorializing for YOB please. -- jessamyn
So, we assume he still hates gays because of his recent votes? While I don't like how he voted on C-38, has anyone asked his reason for those votes?
Like you, five fresh fish, I'd like to think the guy was hit by the clue-by-four, but the voting record alone isn't enough for me to say it hasn't. IIRC, there was some controversy with C-38 and whether it had adequate protections for members of the clergy who did not wish to perform gay marriage - that could be his reason (and whether or not that is a legit reason I guess just gets us back to where we started).
posted by never used baby shoes at 7:15 PM on April 4, 2008
Like you, five fresh fish, I'd like to think the guy was hit by the clue-by-four, but the voting record alone isn't enough for me to say it hasn't. IIRC, there was some controversy with C-38 and whether it had adequate protections for members of the clergy who did not wish to perform gay marriage - that could be his reason (and whether or not that is a legit reason I guess just gets us back to where we started).
posted by never used baby shoes at 7:15 PM on April 4, 2008
It's complicated. My kneejerk reaction is to think, "yeah, whatever, he apologized in the commons, he's just a sleazy asshole who can write an apology." Especially with how it ends: "I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, and all of my colleagues in this House, that I will spend the rest of my career and my life trying to make up for those shameless comments." It's over the top. He's not going to be spending every minute of every day of the rest of him life feeling sad because he was an asshole in 1991.
On the other hand, it's 2008, he has homosexual colleagues now, and I find it hard to believe that Bill Siksay would allow his name to be used if he did not, in fact, believe that Lukiwski was sincere in his apology.
He should probably at least get a demotion for the time being, and then face the music next election.
posted by blacklite at 7:17 PM on April 4, 2008
On the other hand, it's 2008, he has homosexual colleagues now, and I find it hard to believe that Bill Siksay would allow his name to be used if he did not, in fact, believe that Lukiwski was sincere in his apology.
He should probably at least get a demotion for the time being, and then face the music next election.
posted by blacklite at 7:17 PM on April 4, 2008
My only question is if he's a Republican or Democrat. (Oh, other places have politicians too?)
posted by dawson at 7:21 PM on April 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by dawson at 7:21 PM on April 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's just not the same if he isn't embroiled in a homosexual sex scandal of some sort.
posted by Krrrlson at 7:23 PM on April 4, 2008
posted by Krrrlson at 7:23 PM on April 4, 2008
Canadian politicians don't do sex scandals, Krrrlson. Our political scandals are over money, influence peddling, and hockey.
Yeah, we're pretty boring.
posted by never used baby shoes at 7:30 PM on April 4, 2008
Yeah, we're pretty boring.
posted by never used baby shoes at 7:30 PM on April 4, 2008
From the offending bit of the transcript: "... with dirt on their fingernails that transmit diseases."
Uh. What?
Is that some sort of reference that I'd have to be a 90s Saskatchewanian to understand?
posted by CKmtl at 7:35 PM on April 4, 2008
Uh. What?
Is that some sort of reference that I'd have to be a 90s Saskatchewanian to understand?
posted by CKmtl at 7:35 PM on April 4, 2008
yeah, whatever, he apologized in the commons, he's just a sleazy asshole who can write an apology.
Or whose political party has learned that professional image consultants can make your shit sundae look appetizing to the public. That's cynical thought, but the Harper conservatives are all about the image control. They've learned from the USA's election campaigns.
Turns out the videotape in which this MP's hate is displayed, also has hate speech and degrading speech from several other people, one of whom is currently Premier of Saskatchewan. What a charming political party. [spit]
posted by five fresh fish at 7:44 PM on April 4, 2008
Or whose political party has learned that professional image consultants can make your shit sundae look appetizing to the public. That's cynical thought, but the Harper conservatives are all about the image control. They've learned from the USA's election campaigns.
Turns out the videotape in which this MP's hate is displayed, also has hate speech and degrading speech from several other people, one of whom is currently Premier of Saskatchewan. What a charming political party. [spit]
posted by five fresh fish at 7:44 PM on April 4, 2008
I feel as if I should remember - but was C-38 a whipped vote? That would provide a valid reason for him to have voted the way he did. Not good, but tolerable. Generally right now, I'm willing to say that 17 years is a long time, he grew up (and yes, I know he was not young when he said this. Growing up is a life-long thing).
Watch him carefully, but let him keep playing.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:12 PM on April 4, 2008
Watch him carefully, but let him keep playing.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:12 PM on April 4, 2008
You mean throw him under the bus, of course.
posted by parhamr at 8:18 PM on April 4, 2008
I heard his Commons apology on As It Happens, and it seemed pretty sincere. For one thing, he actually acknowledges gays and lesbians, and apologizes to them. I never thought he would be that direct, but would instead stick to general homilies (I am truly sorry for my actions, and hope that we can move on etc). I would say a member of the Conservative caucus recognizing gays and lesbians, and in the Commons, is pretty extraordinary.
I agree with Lemurrhea; it would be out of character for a Conservative redneck to vote in favour of those bills. And 17 years is a long time.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on April 4, 2008
I agree with Lemurrhea; it would be out of character for a Conservative redneck to vote in favour of those bills. And 17 years is a long time.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on April 4, 2008
Is this the guy who played Larry on Three's Company?
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:41 PM on April 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 8:41 PM on April 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: Is that some sort of reference that I'd have to be a 90s Saskatchewanian to understand?
posted by Zinger at 9:01 PM on April 4, 2008
posted by Zinger at 9:01 PM on April 4, 2008
The Conservatives are desperate to make big gains in Ontario and Quebec, who still view them as (quite rightly in many respects) just the old right-wing Reform party in new Conservative suiting. A tape showing one of their MPs sounding like a brain-dead redneck is exactly what they don't want. I'm surprised he hasn't been told to resign over it, to be honest. I imagine Harper is waiting to see how the apology is received.
posted by Salmonberry at 9:31 PM on April 4, 2008
posted by Salmonberry at 9:31 PM on April 4, 2008
I was a 90s Saskatchewanian, and I don't understand that reference. But then, I don't vote Reform^WConservative.
posted by blue grama at 9:37 PM on April 4, 2008
posted by blue grama at 9:37 PM on April 4, 2008
it's always fun to see pols humiliate themselves, but that's all the story i see here. i don't think it's cynical to expect that conservatives from the prairies, especially anyone associated with the dreaded devine regime, might be a little intolerant. comes with the territory.
posted by psychoticreaction at 9:51 PM on April 4, 2008
posted by psychoticreaction at 9:51 PM on April 4, 2008
Wow, and here I almost thought this wouldn't get posted.
I caught Siksay on As It Happens too. Class act that guy, and like him, I thought the apology was sincere, and not just an expression of regret at being caught. While I think it's appropriate for Lukiwski to step down from the Parliamentary Secretary position, I think it's best to let his constituents decide what to do with him. Here's a more complete voting record, in case anyone's curious.
Honestly, Lukiwski's delivery in the video - hardly redneck, more of an slick Alpha-Male/lounge lizard shtick - and the redundancy of "homosexual faggots" leads me to believe he was making a joke, sort of like when one adopts the tone of stereotypical dumb jock spouting off. It was a tasteless, ignorant, and unfunny joke, but I don't think it indicates whether or not he's homophobic.
Lord knows I've said stupid shit 17 years ago that I regret. Lord knows my dad, who's never been the most enlightened of people, has changed his opinions on more than a few things in that time as well.
Canadian politicians don't do sex scandals, Krrrlson.
Au contraire, Pierre.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:45 PM on April 4, 2008
I caught Siksay on As It Happens too. Class act that guy, and like him, I thought the apology was sincere, and not just an expression of regret at being caught. While I think it's appropriate for Lukiwski to step down from the Parliamentary Secretary position, I think it's best to let his constituents decide what to do with him. Here's a more complete voting record, in case anyone's curious.
Honestly, Lukiwski's delivery in the video - hardly redneck, more of an slick Alpha-Male/lounge lizard shtick - and the redundancy of "homosexual faggots" leads me to believe he was making a joke, sort of like when one adopts the tone of stereotypical dumb jock spouting off. It was a tasteless, ignorant, and unfunny joke, but I don't think it indicates whether or not he's homophobic.
Lord knows I've said stupid shit 17 years ago that I regret. Lord knows my dad, who's never been the most enlightened of people, has changed his opinions on more than a few things in that time as well.
Canadian politicians don't do sex scandals, Krrrlson.
Au contraire, Pierre.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:45 PM on April 4, 2008
But... but... He'll vote the way his constituents (the people who voted for him) would want to vote... right?
Middling politicians are a pet peeve of mine because middlemen annoy me.
posted by porpoise at 10:49 PM on April 4, 2008
Middling politicians are a pet peeve of mine because middlemen annoy me.
posted by porpoise at 10:49 PM on April 4, 2008
Why are you editorializing in an FPP? Haven't you been posting here for years?
FPPs are supposed to be objective--tell us the facts and save the rest for the thread below. That's not an arbitrary criterion; it's important. Do you want to be the New York Post?
posted by Epenthesis at 12:01 AM on April 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
FPPs are supposed to be objective--tell us the facts and save the rest for the thread below. That's not an arbitrary criterion; it's important. Do you want to be the New York Post?
posted by Epenthesis at 12:01 AM on April 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
FFF, forgiveness isn't a sub-prime loan but if you don't give any don't expect to get any when you need it.
posted by srboisvert at 2:52 AM on April 5, 2008
posted by srboisvert at 2:52 AM on April 5, 2008
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So he's like the older version of Star Wars Kid.
posted by dobbs at 7:14 PM on April 4, 2008 [1 favorite]