Mrs. Green?
July 2, 2008 12:51 PM   Subscribe

Woman dies after waiting 24 hours in hospital waiting room and hospital staff falsify records in attempt to cover up the incident. Also, Kittens
posted by swift (51 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: this is kind of one of those OUTRAGEOUS NEWS posts that aren't interesting and there's not a lot to say aside from wow, that's horrible news. -- mathowie



 
KITTENS!
posted by shakespeherian at 12:58 PM on July 2, 2008


I AM OUTRAGED!!!!!!

Barfing kittens are deeply offensive to my people.
posted by dersins at 12:59 PM on July 2, 2008


Note: Health care in urban areas for poor people sucks.

Next.
posted by HuronBob at 1:01 PM on July 2, 2008




I blame kittens.
posted by miss lynnster at 1:07 PM on July 2, 2008


OMG kittehs!!!!
posted by jabberjaw at 1:08 PM on July 2, 2008


.
posted by cashman at 1:08 PM on July 2, 2008


.
posted by batmonkey at 1:08 PM on July 2, 2008


Someone needs to be blamed for this because clearly, with our current societal emphasis on treatment of mental illness, the poor, and minorities, this should never, ever happen.
posted by docpops at 1:09 PM on July 2, 2008 [4 favorites]


.
posted by CitizenD at 1:12 PM on July 2, 2008


see also
posted by docpops at 1:12 PM on July 2, 2008


That is horrible.
posted by Mr_Zero at 1:14 PM on July 2, 2008


At least she wasn't waiting in line for some socialized health care.
posted by elwoodwiles at 1:14 PM on July 2, 2008 [4 favorites]


If this happened in Canada, the UK, or France, then it is evidence of how inherently broken socialized medicine is. If not, never mind.
posted by yort at 1:14 PM on July 2, 2008 [9 favorites]


It's hard to understand how the hospital could have deteriorated to this point. Didn't any of the employees, at some point, look around and think "you know, this probably isn't the best place for all these feces"?

The NYCLU raised the alarm over a year ago. If the conditions described are accurate, it would have taken one person doing one walkthrough to verify the claim—at which point, the place should have been shut down immediately. I mean, there's "alleged deficiencies in care which deserve investigation through due process of the judicial system", and then there's "hey, what's up with these feces here?".
posted by greenie2600 at 1:14 PM on July 2, 2008


"Ms. Green began having anxiety attacks in January and had been to the hospital several times since for psychiatric care."

She sought help, as she was supposed to do. She submitted to the system for this help, as she had no choice. And, then....

...only those with something to lose cared? Gods, I hope not.

There are those who will say we shouldn't pay attention to this or talk about it because there's other stuff going on, or because it happens all the time, or because it's no surprise.

I think those are all prime reasons for why we *should* talk about this and pay attention to it.

I remember adults acting the same way when Mr. Reagan changed things for the dependent mentally ill and they started getting funneled directly to the street. That hasn't made things better for those of us fortunate enough to avoid that fate (so far).

Let's not make the same mistake.
posted by batmonkey at 1:15 PM on July 2, 2008


so, judging by the compassion and concern evident in the comments up to this point, it easy to see how something like this could happen.

next, indeed.
posted by klanawa at 1:17 PM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


on preview: well, not all of 'em...
posted by klanawa at 1:18 PM on July 2, 2008


If this happened in Canada, the UK, or France, then it is evidence of how inherently broken socialized medicine is. If not, never mind.

What.
posted by Caduceus at 1:18 PM on July 2, 2008


Talk about it all you want, wring your hands in anger and frustration, etc. Really, this subject like so many others will get its ten minutes of indignation but shit-all will change because the same squalid hospital infrastructures will remain, the same shitty labor pool will exist with ever-increasing downward pressure to hire the lowest of the low in terms of training and skills, the availability of physicians to care for these people will remain as bad or worse than ever, and any tax initiative that expressly or indirectly funds an improvement in the plight of the mentally ill won't have a chance of passing most municipal governments.

Besides that, go nuts (not literally).
posted by docpops at 1:20 PM on July 2, 2008 [5 favorites]


A psychiatric emergency room, AKA the CRC (Crisis Response Center), as they're called in Philly, isn't like your average emergency room. Sometimes the waits are really long because the CRC has to sync up a bed at an inpatient facility that's probably off site and coordinating both the bed at the facility and the ambulance to transport the patient there can take a long time, especially if the police are bringing the patient in on an involuntary commitment in the middle of the night. That was the cause for the wait cited in the NYTimes article, a bed shortage on a late night involuntary, which isn't surprising. Not that a 24 hour wait isn't totally ridiculous, it is, but bear in mind that a lot of psych emergency rooms don't operate on the same model as medical emergency rooms where you wait, then see a doctor and are either treated and released or admitted.

If this woman was working with a social worker who was providing her services and access to resources in the community this wouldn't have happened, a good social worker shows up at the CRC even in the middle of the night to make sure their client is getting quality care and advocates for them to be sent to the best available facility. There are inpatient psych units in Philly like Mercy Hospital in the southwest that are straight out of a horror movie, all the glass is wire reinforced and scratched to shit, the furniture is busted, the place stinks of piss and shit, the staff is surly, etc. You try to make sure your client doesn't wind up in one of those, which, I suspect, is what Kings County is like. If you're not receiving mental health services in the community, you wind up where you wind up, and the treatment and conditions can be truly horrendous.
posted by The Straightener at 1:22 PM on July 2, 2008 [2 favorites]


Here in Oregon this patient wouldn't have a prayer of getting a bed in a psychiatric unit unless she was brandishing a weapon. It's not just inner cities.
posted by docpops at 1:24 PM on July 2, 2008


First you're complaining that the staff did nothing, then you're complaining they covered it up.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND!
posted by mazola at 1:26 PM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


If this happened in Canada, the UK, or France, then it is evidence of how inherently broken socialized medicine is. If not, never mind.

Well, I'd say it's a particularly good example for why we already have socialized medicine in the US, and it just needs to be fixed. In the US, poor people are forced to use emergency rooms as their only source of medical care. Thus, emergency rooms in many places are overwhelmed and unable to supply adequate care to anyone. It's just that right now we've got a complete systemic failure just like Soviet-style rationing, with long lines for groceries and empty shelves, and we want to get to the point where we can complain about the minor failures, like all those places you list.

Don't believe anyone who claims that this is a pure market system, or capitalism at work; it's far, far worse than that.
posted by anotherpanacea at 1:27 PM on July 2, 2008 [2 favorites]


I wonder why she was admitted to a psychiatric facility. "Being crazy" doesn't usually kill people all by itself, but it's certainly possible there was some kind of misdiagnosis somewhere along the line, which resulted in her symptoms being mistaken for mere psychiatric issues. In other words, it wasn't the wait that killed her, but a garden-variety misdiagnosis that caused the wait, complicated by her being ignored when she eventually crashed.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:28 PM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


Here in Oregon this patient wouldn't have a prayer of getting a bed in a psychiatric unit unless she was brandishing a weapon. It's not just inner cities.

Well, in Philly, at least, if you're brought in on a 302 or involuntary commitment you have to be treated inpatient because the law doesn't allow for the patient's release within 72 hours or admission, and then only after appearing before a judge in mental health court who will ascertain based on various recommendations from doctors, social workers and from petitioner testimony whether the patient should continue to be held or should be either released to the community or to law enforcement for criminal prosecution. So it might take 8, 12, 16 hours to find a bed and coordinate the ambulance to get the patient to the psych unit, but they are definitely not walking back out the door if they are brought in involuntarily.
posted by The Straightener at 1:30 PM on July 2, 2008


klanawa .... "next, indeed" evidently my sarcasm wasn't evident enough for you...I'll try to be more clear.

This country has been aware of the health care issues facing lower income people for years and years, we've chosen to do nothing... I'm predicting we will continue to do nothing....
posted by HuronBob at 1:34 PM on July 2, 2008


From what I've heard about what goes on in (New York) ERs of all stripes, I'd literally need to be carried in before I'd step one foot inside.
posted by Skorgu at 1:35 PM on July 2, 2008


So tragic.

.
posted by loiseau at 1:35 PM on July 2, 2008


I think swift is falsifying an FPP in an attempt to cover up SLYT kittenz.

Still, it says something about my current view on my fellow man that a mere kitten fight can "wash" the taste of something so debase from my mouth, letting me move on with relative ease through my day.
posted by Debaser626 at 1:37 PM on July 2, 2008


This country has been aware of the health care issues facing lower income people for years and years, we've chosen to do nothing... I'm predicting we will continue to do nothing....

There's no profit in it.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:39 PM on July 2, 2008


I wonder why she was admitted to a psychiatric facility. "Being crazy" doesn't usually kill people all by itself...

Again, she wasn't admitted to a psych unit at the time she died, she was waiting to be admitted to one. Her behavior in the community was deemed dangerous to others either by the city mental health department or law enforcement, which is all the diagnosis necessary for an involuntary commitment. Involuntary commitments are law enforcement actions, if you are involuntarily committed you are brought to the crisis center in a police wagon and walked through the door in handcuffs and probably mouth restraints by police officers. When your bed on a psych unit comes up you are restrained on a gurney before leaving the crisis center and are kept in restraints during transport.

You'll be seen in the crisis center by a psychiatrist who will diagnose you, but this isn't the kind of situation where someone with a medical problem could wind up accidentally in the psych ward because of misdiagnoses. The criteria for involuntaries are very strict, you have to be either about to kill yourself or someone else to wind up in this position, and "agitation and psychosis" is clinical speak for "about to seriously fuck someone up."
posted by The Straightener at 1:48 PM on July 2, 2008


First you're complaining that the staff did nothing, then you're complaining they covered it up.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND!



It's not possible to do nothing and then when your doing nothing results in a death, cover up the fact that you did nothing??
posted by spicynuts at 1:49 PM on July 2, 2008


Here in Oregon this patient wouldn't have a prayer of getting a bed in a psychiatric unit unless she was brandishing a weapon. It's not just inner cities.

Here in Oregon, if she was crazy and brandishing a weapon, she'd never live long enough to get to the hospital.
posted by peep at 1:51 PM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


This is why politics and economics and any other -ics can't just be considered in air-conditioned boardrooms by people with great health insurance, money and places to sleep at night.

There's that phrase that a society should be measured on how they treat their criminals. How about how they treat their poor?

.
posted by burnfirewalls at 1:52 PM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


Unfortunately this post isn't the best of the web since their are so many damn news stories with a similar scenario.

This is so fucked up on several levels. I'd like to believe that lessons will be learned, but I fear that really all that will come out of this are better ways of covering their asses.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 1:52 PM on July 2, 2008


From what I've heard about what goes on in (New York) ERs of all stripes, I'd literally need to be carried in before I'd step one foot inside.

Really? This is why you shouldn't rely on hearsay. I was in the Emergeny Room in Park Slope, Brooklyn earlier this year. I was immediately seen by a nurse. When it was evident that I wasn't suffering from something life threatening, I was led to a wait area and given my own reclinable barca lounger and a glass of water. A nurse then proceeded to check on me every 20 minutes or so and explain what was going on. She then offered me her own book when she saw that I had nothing to occupy myself. Every person I saw come in while I sat there was treated with respect and got attention. When I was done and it was time to leave the nurse who had been checking on me came over and said goodbye and wished me well. When I got the bill there was a survey inside asking me questions about the service. There ya go.

Not to say I don't agree that the SYSTEM is broken...but let's not let hearsay substitute for fact.
posted by spicynuts at 1:53 PM on July 2, 2008


I always thought it was MRS GREN, not GREEN. What's the extra E for?
Movement, Respiration, Sensitivity, Growth, Reproduction, Excretion, Nutrition...
posted by pivotal at 1:58 PM on July 2, 2008


I can hear the intern talking to her resident...

She died in the waiting room? Already dead? Are you sure? Can't we prop her up and admit her?
posted by three blind mice at 2:00 PM on July 2, 2008


I thought this was a double. Sadly, I was thinking of a completely different case.
posted by jrossi4r at 2:03 PM on July 2, 2008


While the horrific death in the FPP happened in New York, new surveillance video was released today of the woman who died last month -- having been ignored lying there for 45 minutes -- in Los Angeles (previous MeFi thread).
L.A. Times acquires tape excerpts showing King-Harbor staff ignoring dying patient [video].
posted by ericb at 2:09 PM on July 2, 2008


It's hard to understand how the hospital could have deteriorated to this point. Didn't any of the employees, at some point, look around and think "you know, this probably isn't the best place for all these feces"?

They're likely understaffed. My mom works at a hospital and her job has become such a hell this past year with profits declining and the administration cutting every corner that I worry both that she'll quit and not be able to find better in her city and that she won't quit before something terrible happens. And by terrible I mean putting herself or someone else at physical risk, as her job does on a good day but much more so when performed by someone working a 13 hour shift without a break. They are seriously mismanaging and overworking their staff, and there have been consequences already. From what I hear, other hospitals in her region, while not part of the dangerous swandive her place of work is currently engaged in, have their own issues due to the economic slump. I think in her case it's also exacerbated other critical underlying issues that didn't get attention in better times. For the first time in 16 years, she is seriously considering changing careers away from health sciences entirely.
posted by Tehanu at 2:09 PM on July 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


spicynuts,

A Park Slope ER (New York Methodist?) is a whole different world than Kings County.

My mother, a hospital administrator in NYC for 3 decades, used to tell us "If something bad happens to you, DO NOT let them take you to the following hospitals...(long list.) If you're already dead, you can go to Kings County. But only then."
posted by ltracey at 2:12 PM on July 2, 2008


spicynuts: I'm not relying on hearsay. I'm glad you had a good experience but as I'm sure you're aware the plural of anecdote is not data.
posted by Skorgu at 2:16 PM on July 2, 2008


But why can't those of us here, reading this, knowing this is wrong, try to do something more broad about it?

Why can't we be part of the solution? Just one of us may not have as much impact. But several...I mean, couldn't we at least *try*?
posted by batmonkey at 2:19 PM on July 2, 2008


If this happened in Canada, the UK, or France, then it is evidence of how inherently broken socialized medicine is. If not, never mind.

The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation (HHC) was created by New York State legislation in 1970 as a public benefit corporation, governed by a Board of Directors, to oversee the City's public health care system in all five boroughs. Whether this was a failure of "socialized medicine" is probably up for debate. What's not up for debate is that the local taxing authorities nowadays clip 8 3/8% percent of the proles' incomes to fund entities like this, and by the looks of it they're not making very good use of the money.
posted by Kwantsar at 2:20 PM on July 2, 2008


the local taxing authorities nowadays clip 8 3/8% percent of the proles' incomes to fund entities like this, and by the looks of it they're not making very good use of the money.

A public health system that covers all five boroughs? I suspect that the funds provided by that 8+% barely covers the basics.
posted by Thorzdad at 2:27 PM on July 2, 2008


My mother, a hospital administrator in NYC for 3 decades, used to tell us "If something bad happens to you, DO NOT let them take you to the following hospitals...(long list.) If you're already dead, you can go to Kings County. But only then."

Yeah it was similar in my family, except now the landscape has changed and it's not so clear which is best to avoid and when. And it was a phlebotomist, a nurse's assistant, 2 nurses, and a unit coordinator all in one metropolitan area. I've moved away, and I miss picking a doctor based on whether or not s/he seems to know their stuff when they're on rounds and doesn't treat the staff like shit.

It's still weird to visit family in the hospital though, because they notice all the disturbing stuff maybe you didn't want to know. Like what didn't get cleaned and should have since it gets bled on a lot.
posted by Tehanu at 2:28 PM on July 2, 2008


This country has been aware of the health care issues facing lower income people for years and years, we've chosen to do nothing... I'm predicting we will continue to do nothing....

Because unless we're sick, we don't give a shit. I won't pretend to be any better; stuff like this pisses me off, then I move on to the next -- more pressing -- problem that is immediately affecting me.

Health care is in a bad spot; rarely does anyone see any of the problems until they're in dire straights. Sadly, healthy people don't spend much time caring about the sick ... unless it's a family member.
posted by Dark Messiah at 2:44 PM on July 2, 2008


When we lived in NYC and had to call an ambulance for my son three years ago, the EMTs apologized that they had to take us to the nearest emergency room -- the one where I saw a syringe on the floor in the examing room, and feces on the walls. The nurses were all competent and friendly, but we couldn't get out of there fast enough. I'm no germaphobe, but I kept telling my son not to touch anything while we were there. I've been in two hospitals in rich neighborhoods in NYC, and there's no comparing the experience.

It's downright undemocratic for health care, including mental health care, to be given out on the basis of wealth.
posted by The corpse in the library at 2:48 PM on July 2, 2008


I like the use of 'kittens' to soften the impact of a horrible situation. I'll be using something similar in the future whenever I need to impart bad news:

After your behavior in the meeting I have no choice, you are fired. Also, snoring duckling

You have been diagnosed with a rare form of cancer which is horrifically painful and has no treatment. Also, baby raccoon eating a caramel

Your house was completely destroyed in the storm. Also, fennec foxes playing

I'm going to think about the animals because the rest of the linked content is depressing as hell.
posted by quin at 2:48 PM on July 2, 2008


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