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April 1, 2009 11:14 PM Subscribe
If this bill gets passed, it will change the lives of thousands of American students The DREAM Act is a bipartisan proposal, which would create a pathway to citizenship for thousands of young students who were brought to the United States years ago as children. If Congress fails to act this year, another entire class of outstanding, law-abiding high school students will graduate without being able to plan for the future, and some will be removed from their homes to countries they barely know. This tragedy will cause America to lose a vital asset: an educated class of promising immigrant students who have demonstrated a commitment to hard work and a strong desire to be contributing members of our society.
This post was deleted for the following reason: self-link, banned. -- mathowie
strangely enough, shatteredverve has a DREAM graphic on their profile. Poorly-executed astroturf?
posted by dunkadunc at 11:28 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by dunkadunc at 11:28 PM on April 1, 2009
Memo to any organization with a web site: I know it's cool to have a FAQ or About page, but it I can't tell what you're about from your home page - you're doing it wrong.
posted by niles at 11:35 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by niles at 11:35 PM on April 1, 2009
shatteredverve, from your posting history it's hard to tell if you're here for legit reasons (your AskMe posts seem sincere, but your comments in the blue seem like the "obligatory three comments before FPP")... People are reacting negatively to your post because you're shilling and asking for donations and pledge signatures in your title. If it's not a self-link, it's at least poor form. If this is due to an honest misunderstanding of the community guidelines, please contact the moderators (via the contact link at the bottom of the page) for more explanation.
posted by amyms at 11:42 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by amyms at 11:42 PM on April 1, 2009
Flagged. Moving on...
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:45 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:45 PM on April 1, 2009
I like the dream act, but this post breaks the rules. See ya around.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:47 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by Pater Aletheias at 11:47 PM on April 1, 2009
Pretty sure it's a total shill post, amyms. See above.
posted by dead cousin ted at 11:47 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by dead cousin ted at 11:47 PM on April 1, 2009
Actually, this is pretty timely for me to come across - I've been trying to establish just what I think about immigration, and specifically what rights, if any, illegal/undocumented immigrants should have. Your blog (if that's not just a coincidence of names) gives me some interesting reading and links.
posted by niles at 11:48 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by niles at 11:48 PM on April 1, 2009
I totally support the DREAM act btw, this just isn't appropriate on here.
posted by dead cousin ted at 11:50 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by dead cousin ted at 11:50 PM on April 1, 2009
This could have been a successful post with at least some acknowledgment that there may be other opinions about the bill, or some thoughts on why it might be controversial.
posted by arcanecrowbar at 11:53 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by arcanecrowbar at 11:53 PM on April 1, 2009
You would think that astroturfers would be smarter than to use the same username each time, have the organization's website or graphic in their profile, or to write such a heavily-editorializing FPP.
posted by dunkadunc at 11:54 PM on April 1, 2009
posted by dunkadunc at 11:54 PM on April 1, 2009
Pretty sure it's a total shill post
Yeah, I should have previewed, dead cousin ted. It's too bad it's a self-link (or at least something that the OP is heavily involved in enough to count as the equivalent of a self-link), because it's definitely a worthwhile issue to be learning about and talking about.
posted by amyms at 11:55 PM on April 1, 2009
Yeah, I should have previewed, dead cousin ted. It's too bad it's a self-link (or at least something that the OP is heavily involved in enough to count as the equivalent of a self-link), because it's definitely a worthwhile issue to be learning about and talking about.
posted by amyms at 11:55 PM on April 1, 2009
"This tragedy will cause America to lose a vital asset: an educated class of promising immigrant students who have demonstrated a commitment to hard work and a strong desire to be contributing members of our society."
So the DREAM act only grants citizenship to promising, hardworking, and contributing illegals, or -- or is that just easy and empty rhetoric designed to get us emotional and teary-eyed?
I've no doubt many of these kids are promising, hardworking, and desire to contribute. But there's an almost racist implication that they're more promising, hardworking and eager to contribute than, say, the black kids from Detriot or poor white kids in the Ozarks.
And I have a lot of sympathy for these kids: most didn't ask to come here, most have played by the rules since they've gotten here. No one wants to punish innocent kids. But, no, they're not more promising, on average, than any other product of the American school systems. And to the extent they have poorer English for being raised as Spanish speakers -- let's be honest, that's who we're talking about -- they'll need a greater investment in further education to bring them to a point where they can contribute. And if despite being in America and its the public schools most of their lives, they still have poor English, that rather cuts against your promise of "promising", whether or not noticing that is politically correct.
So I'm willing to make a deal with you: any of them that score 1 Standard Deviation higher than the American mean on their SATs, give them citizenship in return for paying 130% of what they'd otherwise be taxed. (They are promising, you said.) For every additional SD, cut that extra tax by 10%.
Now for the ones who can't make that cut-off, let them enlist for eight year hitches in the Army, and earn citizenship defending their new nation. (They are hardworking, you said.)
And for any who aren't bright and can't fight, let them contribute, both to America and their native lands, by returning there and working hard there. God knows we can't expect their home countries to prosper if we keep skimming the cream of the crop.
Now I know I sound harsh and politically incorrect and all that, but frankly it offends me to see implied that somehow the children of illegals are more deserving of our help than the millions of poor Americans who didn't break the law to be here.
posted by orthogonality at 11:56 PM on April 1, 2009
So the DREAM act only grants citizenship to promising, hardworking, and contributing illegals, or -- or is that just easy and empty rhetoric designed to get us emotional and teary-eyed?
I've no doubt many of these kids are promising, hardworking, and desire to contribute. But there's an almost racist implication that they're more promising, hardworking and eager to contribute than, say, the black kids from Detriot or poor white kids in the Ozarks.
And I have a lot of sympathy for these kids: most didn't ask to come here, most have played by the rules since they've gotten here. No one wants to punish innocent kids. But, no, they're not more promising, on average, than any other product of the American school systems. And to the extent they have poorer English for being raised as Spanish speakers -- let's be honest, that's who we're talking about -- they'll need a greater investment in further education to bring them to a point where they can contribute. And if despite being in America and its the public schools most of their lives, they still have poor English, that rather cuts against your promise of "promising", whether or not noticing that is politically correct.
So I'm willing to make a deal with you: any of them that score 1 Standard Deviation higher than the American mean on their SATs, give them citizenship in return for paying 130% of what they'd otherwise be taxed. (They are promising, you said.) For every additional SD, cut that extra tax by 10%.
Now for the ones who can't make that cut-off, let them enlist for eight year hitches in the Army, and earn citizenship defending their new nation. (They are hardworking, you said.)
And for any who aren't bright and can't fight, let them contribute, both to America and their native lands, by returning there and working hard there. God knows we can't expect their home countries to prosper if we keep skimming the cream of the crop.
Now I know I sound harsh and politically incorrect and all that, but frankly it offends me to see implied that somehow the children of illegals are more deserving of our help than the millions of poor Americans who didn't break the law to be here.
posted by orthogonality at 11:56 PM on April 1, 2009
orthogonality, I think first you should start by paying 130% tax and a surcharge for every member of you extended family who was not born in America going back, let's say, 10 generations.
I don't give a fuck that you're not promising. Pay up.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 12:23 AM on April 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
I don't give a fuck that you're not promising. Pay up.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 12:23 AM on April 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
orthogonality: So the DREAM act only grants citizenship to promising, hardworking, and contributing illegals, or -- or is that just easy and empty rhetoric designed to get us emotional and teary-eyed?
It's designed to give a road to citizenship to high school graduates who came to the US as children and who want to go to college. The DREAM act would give high school graduates a 6 year temporary status visa. They would then have to within those 6 years either, obtain a 2-year college degree, complete 2 years out of a regular 4-year degree, or enroll in the military for 2 years. If after 6 years they have done one of those three things, they would be eligible for permanent residency status which would eventually allow them to apply for citizenship.
The DREAM act wouldn't just grant citizenship to illegals in every situation. They do actually have to work for it and show their dedication to serving their country or obtaining higher education. I think it's a great idea, but yah ... this post is going about it all wrong.
posted by Arbac at 12:25 AM on April 2, 2009
It's designed to give a road to citizenship to high school graduates who came to the US as children and who want to go to college. The DREAM act would give high school graduates a 6 year temporary status visa. They would then have to within those 6 years either, obtain a 2-year college degree, complete 2 years out of a regular 4-year degree, or enroll in the military for 2 years. If after 6 years they have done one of those three things, they would be eligible for permanent residency status which would eventually allow them to apply for citizenship.
The DREAM act wouldn't just grant citizenship to illegals in every situation. They do actually have to work for it and show their dedication to serving their country or obtaining higher education. I think it's a great idea, but yah ... this post is going about it all wrong.
posted by Arbac at 12:25 AM on April 2, 2009
"The DREAM act wouldn't just grant citizenship to illegals in every situation. They do actually have to work for it and show their dedication to serving their country or obtaining higher education. I think it's a great idea, but yah ... this post is going about it all wrong."
See, perhaps my comment was intemperate then. Because I did not know these details.
I did not know these details, because nothing on the FPP's link, and no links on that sitee, and no links from hat site to elsewhere actually explain this.
I had to go to Wikipedia before I saw that this was not simply the "dream" of granting citizenship to any illegal graduating highschool.
I suppose that says something about the site FPP's and the FPP: that both rely on emotion, big sad-eyed kids getting teh shaft, whille not providing information.
(I did track down an explanation of what DREAM does require (as Arbac lays out above), but honestly, a mere two years of community college or two years in the military is pretty weak sauce. But I did not know even that from the slanted, information-less FPP or the slaned, content-less site it links to. Funnily enough, that allowed me to assume the worst. Funny that.)
posted by orthogonality at 1:04 AM on April 2, 2009
See, perhaps my comment was intemperate then. Because I did not know these details.
I did not know these details, because nothing on the FPP's link, and no links on that sitee, and no links from hat site to elsewhere actually explain this.
I had to go to Wikipedia before I saw that this was not simply the "dream" of granting citizenship to any illegal graduating highschool.
I suppose that says something about the site FPP's and the FPP: that both rely on emotion, big sad-eyed kids getting teh shaft, whille not providing information.
(I did track down an explanation of what DREAM does require (as Arbac lays out above), but honestly, a mere two years of community college or two years in the military is pretty weak sauce. But I did not know even that from the slanted, information-less FPP or the slaned, content-less site it links to. Funnily enough, that allowed me to assume the worst. Funny that.)
posted by orthogonality at 1:04 AM on April 2, 2009
Now I know I sound harsh and politically incorrect and all that...
Really. Do tell.
posted by eclectist at 1:16 AM on April 2, 2009
Really. Do tell.
posted by eclectist at 1:16 AM on April 2, 2009
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posted by delmoi at 11:26 PM on April 1, 2009