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	<title>MetaFilter posts tagged with greeks</title>
	<link>http://www.metafilter.com/tags/greeks</link>
	<description>Posts tagged with 'greeks' at MetaFilter.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:25:43 -0800</pubDate> <lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:25:43 -0800</lastBuildDate>

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	<docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs>
	<ttl>60</ttl>
	<item>
		<title>Lost in the desert for 2,500 years.</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/86520/Lost%2Din%2Dthe%2Ddesert%2Dfor%2D2500%2Dyears</link>
		<description> &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/cambyses-army-remains-sahara.html&quot;&gt;It appears that the Lost Army of Cambyses has been found.&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambyses_of_Persia&quot;&gt;Cambyses II expanded the Persian empire into Egypt.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.livius.org/caa-can/cambyses_ii/cambyses_ii.html&quot;&gt;Most accounts depict him as a lousy, drunken tyrant.&lt;/a&gt;  &lt;/a&gt;  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/herodotus/cambyses.htm&quot;&gt;According to Herodotus&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://touregypt.net/featurestories/cambyses2.htm&quot;&gt;he sent his army, 50,000 strong, into Egypt where the encountered a sand storm near the Siwa Oasis and were buried alive. &lt;/a&gt; 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.chnpress.com/news/?section=2&amp;id=6865&quot;&gt;The tomb of Cambyses himself was discovered in 2006.&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:metafilter.com,2009:site.86520</guid>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:25:43 -0800</pubDate>
		<category>alexanderthegreat</category>
		<category>ancientcivilization</category>
		<category>ancientgreece</category>
		<category>archeology</category>
		<category>awesome</category>
		<category>cambyses</category>
		<category>egypt</category>
		<category>greeks</category>
		<category>herodotus</category>
		<category>italy</category>
		<category>lostarmy</category>
		<category>persia</category>
		<category>skulls</category>
		<dc:creator>Lutoslawski</dc:creator>
	</item>
      <item>
		<title>The True Story of Chanukkah</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/77622/The%2DTrue%2DStory%2Dof%2DChanukkah</link>
		<description> Chanukkah is the story of a group of warriors (the Maccabees, later the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasmonean&quot;&gt;Hasmoneans&lt;/a&gt;, led by Mattathias) who rose up against the Greeks (the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid_Empire&quot;&gt;Seleucids&lt;/a&gt;), united the Jews, reclaimed the Temple (&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_in_Jerusalem&quot;&gt;Beit HaMikdash&lt;/a&gt;), and then lit one day&apos;s supply of oil which miraculously lasted for eight days, started a brand new holiday called Chanukkah, and brought Jewish sovereignty and peace to the land of Israel.  Except that almost every part of that story is either wrong or completely misleading. 1) Chanukkah as a Civil War Between the Jews&lt;/span&gt;
To start with, Chanukkah is just as much about a civil war among the Jews as it is about a war between the Greeks and a solidified Jewish force (&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah#The_story&quot;&gt;wikipedia&lt;/a&gt;): 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Many modern scholars argue that the king may have been intervening in an internal civil war between the traditionalist Jews in the country and the Hellenized elite Jews in Jerusalem. These competed violently over who would be the High Priest, with traditionalists with Hebrew/Aramaic names like Onias overthrown by Hellenizers with Greek names like Jason and Menelaus. As the conflict escalated, Antiochus took the side of the Hellenizers by prohibiting the religious practices the traditionalists had rallied around. This may explain why the king, in a total departure from Seleucid practice in all other places and times, banned the traditional religion of a whole people.&lt;/blockquote&gt;The Maccabean uprising itself began with a Jew killing a Jew.  (&quot;After Antiochus issued his decrees forbidding Jewish religious practice, a rural Jewish priest from Modiin, Mattathias the Hasmonean, sparked the revolt against the Seleucid Empire by refusing to worship the Greek gods. &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maccabean_revolt#The_Revolt&quot;&gt;Mattathias slew a Hellenistic Jew who stepped forward to offer a sacrifice to an idol in Mattathias&apos; place.&lt;/a&gt; He and his five sons fled to the wilderness of Judea.&quot;)

Ironically, although the Hasmoneans started out at war against the Hellenizing and secularizing Jews, as they solidified power &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kolel.org/pages/holidays/Chanukah_intro.html&quot;&gt;they got into another conflict, except this time&lt;/a&gt; &quot;the Hasmoneans sided with the Sadducees, the priestly advocates of the authority of Temple Sacrifice, against the Pharisees, the forerunners of the rabbis and the form of rabbinic Judaism we continue to practise today.&quot;

So when the Orthodox in Israel and the secular Jews in American celebrate Chanukkah, they are both commemorating a military victory by a group that tried to destroy them.

For more on Chanukkah as a civil war, see this article in Slate Magazine &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.slate.com/id/2133068/&quot;&gt;The Maccabees and the Hellenists&lt;/a&gt;&quot;

2) The Miracle of the Oil that Burned for Eight Days&lt;/span&gt;
For people who don&apos;t believe in miracles, then obviously there wasn&apos;t any Chanukkah miracle.  But even for those people who do believe in miracles, there is much evidence that there wasn&apos;t any magical oil that burned for eight days.  The most obvious reason to discount the idea of magical oil burning for eight days is that this supposed miracle isn&apos;t referred to in the Book of Maccabees, the most contemporaneous account.  The section on the rededication of the Temple &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.co.il/books?id=PoqeaUWscB0C&amp;amp;pg=PA481&amp;amp;lpg=PA481&amp;amp;dq=%22and+so+they+kept+the+dedication+of+the+altar+eight+days%22&amp;amp;source=web&amp;amp;ots=F8qASpFMl3&amp;amp;sig=4JkX7MY4GFOB0bsq9MdXej45mDw&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;sa=X&amp;amp;oi=book_result&amp;amp;resnum=3&amp;amp;ct=result&quot;&gt;merely reads&lt;/a&gt; &quot;And so they kept the dedication of the altar eight days&quot; with no mention anywhere of miraculous oils.  Similarly, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanukkah#Additions_to_the_daily_prayers&quot;&gt;al hanissim&lt;/a&gt;, the special prayer said during Chanukkah refers to a miracle, but it&apos;s the miracle of a military victory, not of oil that burned for 8 days.  The first mention of the magic oil appears in the Talmud, &lt;a href=&quot;http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/faithvalues/2002675315_glickmancolumn10m.html&quot;&gt;roughly 600 years&lt;/a&gt; after the rededication of the Temple. 

So why was a story invented about oil burning for eight days?  Possibly, as a post-hoc explanation to explain why the holiday was eight days long (more on this shortly).  Just as likely, to change the tone of the holiday from one of military conquest to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kolel.org/pages/holidays/Chanukah_intro.html&quot;&gt;God&apos;s presence&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;So what happened to the story of the oil and the miracle of the lights? Well, that&apos;s where the rabbis come in. In the rabbinic sources, we find virtual silence on the topic of Chanukah in the Mishnah. It is only in the Gemara (the later rabbinic material which, along with the Mishna makes up the Talmud) that we find the new story about the oil and the miracle of the lights. By the time of the development of the Talmud, around 200-500 C.E., the Jews were living under Roman rule in Israel and under Persian rule in Babylon. In these circumstances, celebrating stories about military rebellion might not be viewed in too positive a light by the authorities, and the sages also feared that some Jewish hotheads might stir up trouble and cause all kinds of problems for the Jewish community. So the Talmudic sages put a new spin on the established holiday: God wrought a great miracle for the people, enabling the few to triumph over the many, and God showed the people another miracle in the oil, when a flask of ritually pure oil sufficient for one day lasted for all eight days.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
3) Chanukkah as the Late Version of &lt;/span&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukkot&quot;&gt;Sukkhot&lt;/a&gt;
So if there wasn&apos;t magic oil that burned for eight days, then why is Chanukkah an eight day holiday?  Because of what happened &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kolel.org/pages/holidays/Chanukah_intro.html&quot;&gt;after the Maccabean revolt succeeded&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;When they took over the Temple and cleaned out all the remnants of the idolatrous Greek worship, they rededicated the Temple and then immediately held a late observance of the eight day festival of Sukkot, the most important festival of Temple times. The next year, to commemorate their victory and the rededication of the Temple, a &quot;late Sukkot&quot; was held again, thereby giving birth to our eight-day celebration of Chanukah - which means &quot;dedication&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;And you want to guess what they called &lt;a href=&quot;http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/faithvalues/2002675315_glickmancolumn10m.html&quot;&gt;this new holiday&lt;/a&gt;?
&lt;blockquote&gt;As a result, they celebrated Sukkot late that year &#8212; in December, during the Hebrew month of Kislev. In fact, the book of Maccabees doesn&apos;t even call the festival Hanukkah. Instead, it refers to the celebration as Sukkot B&apos;kislev &#8212; December Sukkot.&lt;/blockquote&gt;4) Additional Chanukkah Trivia About &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great&quot;&gt;Herod the Great&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/span&gt;
After the Hasmoneans seized power in Israel, they continued their civil war against other Jews.  They also began &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.co.il/books?id=56QJ9O7MFJ4C&amp;amp;pg=PA56&amp;amp;lpg=PA56&amp;amp;dq=hasmoneans+forcible+conversion&amp;amp;source=bl&amp;amp;ots=qKCJttNxlz&amp;amp;sig=rOEsxQBCzh3IWRqpPsQBZEcRmOc&amp;amp;hl=en&amp;amp;sa=X&amp;amp;oi=book_result&amp;amp;resnum=1&amp;amp;ct=result&quot;&gt;forcibly converting other people in the land to Judaism&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Yet what was most devastating about Hasmonean rule was its retreat from the principles of the Maccabean rebellion.  It was the Hasmoneans who introduced into Jewish history the infamous policy of coercive conversion by compelling pagan residents of Galilee and of Idumea either to accept conversion to Judaism or to be killed.  This forcible conversion policy, so notorious in later Jewish history, unfortunately was introduce by the Jews themselves.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Then, &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_the_Great#Biography&quot;&gt;along comes King Herod, but&lt;/a&gt; &quot;since Herod&apos;s family had converted to Judaism under duress, his Jewishness had come into question by some elements of Judean society.&quot;  And if you go on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://english.thekotel.org/content.asp?id=116&quot;&gt;Western Wall Tunnel Tour in Jerusalem&lt;/a&gt;, the tour guide will tell you that Herod rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem to try to prove his commitment to Judaism, but even after all his efforts the Temple Priests refused to recognize his Judaism and would not let him enter the Temple that he built.

And don&apos;t even get me started on potato lattkes... </description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:metafilter.com,2008:site.77622</guid>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 11:54:49 -0800</pubDate>
		<category>chanukkah</category>
		<category>civil</category>
		<category>greeks</category>
		<category>hanukah</category>
		<category>israel</category>
		<category>jerusalem</category>
		<category>jew</category>
		<category>jewish</category>
		<category>judaism</category>
		<category>maccabees</category>
		<category>sukkot</category>
		<category>temple</category>
		<category>war</category>
		<dc:creator>andoatnp</dc:creator>
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      <item>
		<title>Encyclopedia of Greek Mythology</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/69098/Encyclopedia%2Dof%2DGreek%2DMythology</link>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.theoi.com/"&gt;Theoi Greek Mythology&lt;/a&gt; is an internet encyclopedia with over 1500 pages on various characters from classical myth, covering everything from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Apollon.html&quot;&gt;famous gods&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Olympios/Aphrodite.html&quot;&gt;goddesses&lt;/a&gt; to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Nymphe/NymphaiHamadryades.html&quot;&gt;obscure nymphs&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Pontios/Phorkys.html&quot;&gt;titans&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Thaumasios/KeteaIndikoi.html&quot;&gt;monsters&lt;/a&gt;. If the confusing familial relations of the Greek gods vex you, there are &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Tree.html&quot;&gt;10 different family trees&lt;/a&gt; to help you make sense of it all. There&apos;s also an extensive &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.library.theoi.com/&quot;&gt;library&lt;/a&gt; of ancient works concerning classical mythology and a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Bibliography.html&quot;&gt;bibliography&lt;/a&gt; should you long for more to read. Last but not least, Theoi has a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theoi.com/Galleries.html&quot;&gt;gallery&lt;/a&gt; of over 1200 artworks from antiquity, which I have been happily browsing for a good while.  </description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:metafilter.com,2008:site.69098</guid>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:33:33 -0800</pubDate>
		<category>classicalmythology</category>
		<category>classics</category>
		<category>encyclopedia</category>
		<category>greekmyth</category>
		<category>greekmythology</category>
		<category>greeks</category>
		<category>myth</category>
		<category>mythology</category>
		<category>romans</category>
		<dc:creator>Kattullus</dc:creator>
	</item>
      <item>
		<title>Greeks, postmodernism, and the rethinking of deomocracy</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/38172/Greeks%2Dpostmodernism%2Dand%2Dthe%2Drethinking%2Dof%2Ddeomocracy</link>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.opendemocracy.net/debates/article-3-122-2255.jsp"&gt;Greeks, postmodernity, and the rethinking of democracy&lt;/a&gt; Found this fascinating interview on openDemocracy by way of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.meateatingleftist.com/mt/archives/2004/12/the_greeks_get.html&quot;&gt;meat-eating leftist&lt;/a&gt;. Greek opposition minister George Papandreou, son of  former socialist Prime Minister &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Papandreou&quot;&gt;Andreas Papandreou&lt;/a&gt;, says some interesting things about the changing nature of representative democracy and the new fluidity of citizens&apos; political and social identities. 

Given our diminishing democracy in this country, it is refreshing to hear a politician say that individuals in society need to be empowered and that political leaders must listen to and trust individuals.  </description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:metafilter.com,2004:site.38172</guid>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:20:00 -0800</pubDate>
		<category>AndreasPapandreou</category>
		<category>democracy</category>
		<category>GeorgePapandreou</category>
		<category>Greeks</category>
		<category>Papandreou</category>
		<category>postmodernism</category>
		<dc:creator>mountainmambo</dc:creator>
	</item>
      <item>
		<title>Hellenic Ministry of Culture</title>
		<link>http://www.metafilter.com/26259/Hellenic%2DMinistry%2Dof%2DCulture</link>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.culture.gr/2/21/toc/"&gt;The Hellenic Ministry of Culture&lt;/a&gt; The Hellenic Ministry of Culture and its many &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.culture.gr/2/21/toc/cult_map.html&quot;&gt;guides and maps&lt;/a&gt; for hundreds of Greek archaeological sites, monuments and museums.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.culture.gr/maps/crete/iraklio/iraklio.html&quot;&gt;Here&apos;s one of Herakleion&lt;/a&gt;, in Crete.  </description>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">tag:metafilter.com,2003:site.26259</guid>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2003 11:20:18 -0800</pubDate>
		<category>Greece</category>
		<category>Greeks</category>
		<category>guides</category>
		<category>maps</category>
		<dc:creator>plep</dc:creator>
	</item>
      
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