"The nurses are on roller skates."
February 1, 2011 10:35 AM   Subscribe

Boobs in Bangkok: "Wayward Betty" tells the story of her Thai plastic surgery vacation. (Via The Hairpin, whose excerpt is eye-friendlier.)
posted by hermitosis (58 comments total) 11 users marked this as a favorite
 
Since he does not speak English very well, he made a series of gestures and sound effects, which I interpreted to mean that the implant would overflow from the side, implode (or explode) beneath the muscle and potentially collapse and come out my mouth. Really, I have no idea what he was trying to indicate, other than something really terrible might happen if I tried bigger implants.

...
posted by phrontist at 10:40 AM on February 1, 2011


“Das for kindergarten pain! You need dis!” She throws me what I suspect to be some concoction of Oxycodone, Percoset or Vicodin, I am not sure what. She throws in a pack of Valium and says, “You jus take easy and relaaaaaa-AX, ” (winks and smiles).

::SIGH::
posted by Splunge at 10:46 AM on February 1, 2011 [3 favorites]


What a psycho.
posted by ReeMonster at 10:47 AM on February 1, 2011


I absolutely understand the whole medical tourism thing. I'd just be scared as hell to go in for elective surgery (and a general) with such a language barrier in place. To each his own, I guess.
posted by jquinby at 10:48 AM on February 1, 2011


For some reason, people have very strong opinions about what we should or should not do to our own bodies. Men will say, “But you are fine just the way you are,” as if I just needed their personal voice of approval to change my mind: “Yes, of course! What was I thinking? How could I change something about myself that you believe to be just fine. Thank you for the compliment and highly relevant opinion of my body.

Did men just walk up to her out of the blue and declare that her breasts were fine just the way they are? In order to get opinions on such things, one has to let other people know of this desire. Does she really think after bringing the subject up, that people won't volunteer opinions?
posted by 2N2222 at 10:50 AM on February 1, 2011 [8 favorites]


I knew I had to go back to the creepy old Bangkokian hotel alone and take care of myself for a week before the stitches come out so I do my best to conquer the surgical feat with minimal angst.

that is terrifying to me. oh, and all the other stuff, too.
posted by anya32 at 11:01 AM on February 1, 2011


Given this:
I think it’s cute that every guy thinks he is the first to try and dissuade me. When it comes to this particular issue, I am immune to flattery.

It seems evident that she was open about her hopes/plans to get breast implants. If you read the longer form essay at her blog you'll see they've been a life long dream! That doesn't necessarily mean she was fishing for reassurance and general opinions.

Maybe it's just me, but that was one of the few points she made that I could understand. I see it come up on mefi a lot where someone jumps in to say "gee I think x thing is really hot don't change it" as if the desire to change something about yourself is entirely based on external validation. It's always more complicated than that.
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 11:09 AM on February 1, 2011 [6 favorites]


Roller-skating nurses, just like the Mayo Clinic. Respect.
posted by user92371 at 11:11 AM on February 1, 2011 [5 favorites]


Does she really think after bringing the subject up, that people won't volunteer opinions?

So people have the right to "volunteer opinions" about your body because information is public?

Oh, I can see that you are fat/thin/ugly/beautiful/pale/tan/disfigured - did you know that you can do XYZ to fix/improve/repair that? Or no, don't change a thing because I think that you are _____ just the way you are! I don't care what YOUR personal preferences are!

It's nobody's goddamn business to impose their opinions on someone just because they chose to make that infomation available.
posted by elsietheeel at 11:12 AM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


When you factor in airfare, is this really cheaper than going to a doctor you can actually understand in the US? You'd think for all her talk about "investments" she'd invest a little cash into making sure she doesn't die of sepsis alone in some Bangkok hotel hopped up on who-knows-what painkiller.
posted by oinopaponton at 11:13 AM on February 1, 2011


There's a far, far cry from information being public and bringing up a topic of discussion, then expecting that the other person does not get to speak or that, if they do, they may only voice opinions that are pleasing to you.
posted by adipocere at 11:18 AM on February 1, 2011 [6 favorites]


It seems evident that she was open about her hopes/plans to get breast implants. If you read the longer form essay at her blog you'll see they've been a life long dream! That doesn't necessarily mean she was fishing for reassurance and general opinions.

Letting people in on your lifelong dream is pretty much soliciting opinion, like it or not.

me: I've always wanted to be a rabbi.

buddy: I didn't know you were Jewish.

me: Why do you want to harsh my buzz like that?

posted by 2N2222 at 11:20 AM on February 1, 2011 [11 favorites]


So people have the right to "volunteer opinions" about your body because information is public?

Well, yes. You take information public, people do have the right to have an opinion about it, and express it.

They don't have the right to try and enforce that opinion. And I think it would be pretty unwelcome for them to volunteer the opinion out of the blue. But I feel about it the same way I feel about anything anybody tells me -- I'm not your silent partner. You tell me something, you get my feedback. Don't want it? Keep your private life private.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:23 AM on February 1, 2011 [11 favorites]



There's a far, far cry from information being public and bringing up a topic of discussion, then expecting that the other person does not get to speak or that, if they do, they may only voice opinions that are pleasing to you.


Exactly. It's not as if some guy walked up to her at the bus stop and said, "You know, your breasts look fine the way they are."

If you're going to bring up the subject, don't get pissy when someone replies in a way that isn't even hostile.
posted by 2N2222 at 11:24 AM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


don't change a thing because I think that you are _____ just the way you are! I don't care what YOUR personal preferences are!

I think from the person making the comment's perspective, they think that it is somehow a mistake or damaging to do whatever the person is planning on doing or think that their personal image of their body is flawed. Which can be annoying for the person running into that perspective over and over again, but it doesn't come from a place of anti-choice or lack of respect or anything like that in my opinion. People are always going to have an opinion on what you do with your body, even though theoretically you can do whatever you want with it. For an extreme example, see the pretty much universal rejection of support for people with BIID cutting off their own limbs.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:26 AM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


It's nobody's goddamn business to impose their opinions on someone just because they chose to make that infomation available.

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where people bothered to distinguish between statements and impositions?

(Except where children are concerned: my opinion is law, buddy)
posted by Dr.Enormous at 11:32 AM on February 1, 2011 [2 favorites]


How much of this is even true? Rollerskating nurses?! I mean I believe that there are clinics in other countries that cater to medical tourists, but this seems far-fetched and kind of "LOL Thailand" in some ways. (Disclosure: I'm half-Thai, and maybe oversensitive.)
posted by statolith at 11:33 AM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah but when you hear someone is going to have plastic surgery, there is a way to discuss it politely and tactfully, and unfortunately many (many!) men seem to forget rather easily that women's bodies don't exist purely to provide aesthetic pleasure for them.

Like, if someone I wasn't super close to mentioned to me that she was planning to get a breast enlargement, I'd probably say, "When did you decide this?" or "Have you been saving up a long time?" or "How big do you intend to go?" or any number of other polite conversational responses. Bringing up the topic of the surgery is not the same as opening your blouse and saying, "Tell me the truth -- whaddya think?"
posted by hermitosis at 11:33 AM on February 1, 2011 [11 favorites]


I see it come up on mefi a lot where someone jumps in to say "gee I think x thing is really hot don't change it" as if the desire to change something about yourself is entirely based on external validation.

It is difficult to imagine that getting breast implants is not driven by a desire for external validation. Do we really think that a woman alone on a deserted island would get breast implants if she could?

Do you think that straight and gay women get breast implants at the same rate? Do you think that women in rural areas get breast implants at the same rate as women in urban areas?

Porn went super-mainstream with the internet in the late nineties. Fifteen years ago, women in porns had breast implants, no pubic hair, and work very high spiked heels. Now? Everyday women have breast implants, no pubic hair, and wear very high spiked heels. It may feel internal, but I think that the driving forces behind it hare very external.
posted by flarbuse at 11:42 AM on February 1, 2011 [8 favorites]


Like, if someone I wasn't super close to mentioned to me that she was planning to get a breast enlargement, I'd probably say, "When did you decide this?" or "Have you been saving up a long time?" or "How big do you intend to go?"

To which she might snark, "OK, so now you are my therapist?!?"

If a woman at a bar brought this up to me, I might say something very similar to what she heard. If a woman at work brought this up, I'd probably say, "Okaay... (thinking, "why do I have to know this?)" Is there any correct response for this woman? Even moreso with this particular woman, who impresses me not a bit.

Really... implants as an investment? A lifelong dream, so important that she has to cheap out at a boob mill in Thailand? And how dare people declare that her body is fine just the way it is, when she tells them of her intention!
posted by 2N2222 at 11:47 AM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


"When I fully recover, I am thinking of putting that pirate routine back together… possibly integrating a talking parrot and a flute.

But, first things first: I am taking my new boobs and getting the F— out of Bangkok." -from Link


great writing.
terse yet free and confident.
funny google ad.
having a great time with story
thanks,
clav
posted by clavdivs at 11:48 AM on February 1, 2011


Like, if someone I wasn't super close to mentioned to me that she was planning to get a breast enlargement, I'd probably say, "When did you decide this?" or "Have you been saving up a long time?" or "How big do you intend to go?"

I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable telling a stranger what to do with their breasts. However, my friends, male and female alike, are capable of making absurd life decisions, and while I know that unrequested advice is neither appreciated nor listened to (and this is, to a lesser extent, true of requested advice), sometimes those decisions are so monumentally bad that I feel I cannot, in good conscience, not say anything.

Thinking of going to Thailand for invasive surgery? Their medical ranking is 10 points below the US, the cost of surgery can actually be more than the cost of doing it here as a result of travel and housing costs, and some surgeries require post-surgical care that may not be provided. I would want to make sure they knew what they were doing. People can be idiots.

And maybe they do wrongly believe there is something wrong with their body. People can tell themselves all sorts of horseshit that their friends transparently see through. Surgery has risks, and friends can be idiots.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:49 AM on February 1, 2011 [7 favorites]


I don't think she's rolling her eyes at the fact that people tell her that her boobs are fine the way they are- she seems to find it amusing that every guy who says this acts like they must be the first one to tell her, like every guy who ever offered an opinion on her boobs before must have found them lacking, thus her desire for breast enlargement, and that their counter opinion is somehow groundbreaking. No, actually, she hasn't been waiting for that one guy who likes her boobs the way they are, *she* wants them to be different. Which, yeah, they're her tits. She can do whatever she wants with them.
posted by MadamM at 12:07 PM on February 1, 2011 [6 favorites]


Mod note: Comments removed. "I don't like this writeup and here's why" is fine, but please think about how you frame it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:07 PM on February 1, 2011


I thought it was a good read.

Like several other readers I was surprised by her surprise to the canned male response, "you look fine just the way you are." I'm not sure what an acceptable response would have been if not that.
posted by justkevin at 12:11 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


After she noticed that I'd had something done, an acquaintance volunteered that she is having her marriage in Thailand and is considering scouting out some plastic surgery while she's there.

I'm pretty curious about this myself. If I wanted facial feminization surgery, Thailand would be my number one stop. I've seen some fairly amazing FFS results for a number of people who opted for the Thailand route, so casting the country as some benighted backwater with rusty scalpels glinting under flickering fluorescents while dogs wander in and out of the operating theater looking for scraps, as is so often the case, only makes me more suspicious of the motivations of those who are only looking out for the interests of the poor dumb Americans who can supposedly only make choices based on price.

It's hard to separate out the reality from the fear, uncertainty, and doubt that might originate with rent-seeking motivations from plastic surgeons in the United States. I suspect that the outcome is far more correlated to the individual surgeon than to the country that surgeon is in.
posted by adipocere at 12:13 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


casting the country as some benighted backwater with rusty scalpels glinting under flickering fluorescents while dogs wander in and out of the operating theater looking for scraps, as is so often the case, only makes me more suspicious of the motivations of those who are only looking out for the interests of the poor dumb Americans who can supposedly only make choices based on price.

It's not the training and hygiene of the Thai doctors that creeps me out here, but the facts that this woman couldn't communicate with her doctor about the risks of the surgery (including going under general anesthesia!) or the care she'd need after, and that she was able to buy pretty heavy-grade painkillers without a prescription. Which, I guess, isn't to say that she wouldn't have just tuned out whatever an American doctor would tell her, but still, yikes.
posted by oinopaponton at 12:20 PM on February 1, 2011


Yeah, people will generally tell you that you're okay as is. Tell people you're thinking about getting cosmetic surgery and unless there's some glaring difference between you and the norm then people will try to reassure you that you look fine. It's a bit safer, socially, to tell someone they're not flawed.

Hell, when I tell people that I'm watching what I eat because I'm a bit big in the belly lately, then I get told that I needn't bother and I look fine. That's not even surgical and the benefits of eating healthily surpass the cosmetic.

I think it's a politeness thing for the most part.
posted by ODiV at 12:24 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


Leaving that ridiculous "nurses are on roller skates" paragraph aside, this is nothing but bull shit, bull shit, and more bull shit.

One of the reasons plastic surgery is cheaper is because the entire process is streamlined. Instead of making an appointment, you basically sit in a line and wait until the doctor can see you.

Really? I don't know what god-forsaken hospital you had your procedure done at, but I spent years in Bangkok and any hospital I went to for anything other than a minor check-up, required an appointment.

I knew I had to go back to the creepy old Bangkokian hotel alone and take care of myself for a week before the stitches come out so I do my best to conquer the surgical feat with minimal angst.

"Creepy"? Oh yeah? Because you couldn't spend $30 a night for any number of hotels which would have A/C, satellite television, a pool, etc? Perhaps hire a local nurse to look after you for $15/day? This woman is either lying for effect or completely naive to the point where, for her own safety, she shouldn't leave her home country. Ever.

As for the question up-thread of whether or not it's worth paying the airfare, etc. to receive treatment in Bangkok, I'd say that depends if you're insured in your home country or not. Airfares from the U.S. will range from about $1,000 to $1,500 depending on how far you are from a major hub. As I mentioned earlier, a decent hotel will set you back anywhere from $25 up to $125 for the Sheraton. Here are a couple examples I can give you for prices of procedures at one of Bangkok's top hospitals. A full MRI with follow-up visits to the neurologist is approximately $500. While I don't know the exact cost, an older friend of mine from the U.S. told me that his heart surgery was about 20% of the cost back home. He saved tens of thousands of dollars by having the procedure done in Bangkok. As well, at a hospital like Bumrungrad, most of the doctors are trained in the West and they all speak English.
posted by gman at 12:25 PM on February 1, 2011 [30 favorites]


No, actually, she hasn't been waiting for that one guy who likes her boobs the way they are, *she* wants them to be different. Which, yeah, they're her tits. She can do whatever she wants with them.

Absolutely, it's her body. But I don't see how wanting to change ones appearance is not for external validation, even it's an imagined, internalized version. There are things I don't like about my appearance, but send me on a solo, one-way trip to Saturn and I will never give them a second thought. I seriously doubt that anyone, given a solo, one-way ticket to Saturn would look at their reflection in the their capsule window as they pass by the Red Spot of Jupiter and think "Goddamnit, I wish I'd gotten a hair transplant before I left Earth."
posted by the jam at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


*Paging Dr. Nick Riviera*

Hi Everybody!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 12:39 PM on February 1, 2011


One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster
The bars are temples but the pearls ain't free
You'll find a god in every golden cloister
A little flesh, a little history
I can feel an angel sliding up to me

One night in Bangkok makes a hard man humble
Not much between despair and ecstasy
One night in Bangkok and the tough guys tumble
Can't be too careful with your company
I can feel the devil walking next to me
posted by loquacious at 12:44 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


But I don't see how wanting to change ones appearance is not for external validation, even it's an imagined, internalized version.

She gets right into it talking about Barbies. If that's external validation then that's when she internalized it. Anyway, once it's internalized there's not really a way to influence someone with your opinion on the subject — not that I think offering an opinion is wrong if solicited.
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:03 PM on February 1, 2011


Did anyone else think of the eyeball-replacing scene in Minority Report?
posted by gottabefunky at 1:18 PM on February 1, 2011 [3 favorites]


I absolutely understand the whole medical tourism thing. I'd just be scared as hell to go in for elective surgery (and a general) with such a language barrier in place. To each his own, I guess.

There's got to be an exploitation film about that already.

boob mill in Thailand

Name of my punk band yadda yadda yadda
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 1:29 PM on February 1, 2011


So I was sitting in an emergency room in Burma. I had my left thumb in a Dixie cup full of ice. Lawnmower accident. Guy comes in next. He has a sweating plastic cup, a pad and a pencil. After writing a note to the triage nurse, he sits down next to me. I notice blood on his chin.

We sort of glance at each other. Him at my bandaged hand, me at his chin. We both grin. He scribbles a quick note:

So how did it happen?

I tell him a story of excessive hashish consumption and an urge to garden. He nods knowingly.

So I have to ask him, how about you?

He writes for a bit:

I met this girl at a bar. She started telling me about how she thought her chest was too small. She was going to get implants at a cheap clinic in Burma. Real cheap. I was about to give her my opinion about that and she yelled, "I DON"T NEED YOUR COMPLIMENTS! I AM GETTING BIG BREASTS!"

I slammed my mouth shut so fast I bit my tongue off.

posted by Splunge at 1:42 PM on February 1, 2011 [11 favorites]


Hell, when I tell people that I'm watching what I eat because I'm a bit big in the belly lately, then I get told that I needn't bother and I look fine.

For a lot of people, it's body image issues. They only see their flaws in the mirror.
posted by smackfu at 1:51 PM on February 1, 2011


The contrast between "I don't care what other people think about my boobs" and "I want boobs that will make people look at me" jumped out at me. Not that either of those motivations are bad or wrong, they just seem discordant.
posted by quiet coyote at 2:10 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


I can fear the surgeon walking next to me
posted by clavdivs at 2:15 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


derail: breast reduction should be covered under all insurance.
posted by clavdivs at 2:17 PM on February 1, 2011


Soon to be a best seller and then a major motion picture. Oh wait~
posted by Ideefixe at 2:40 PM on February 1, 2011


This article is total bullshit.
posted by delmoi at 3:17 PM on February 1, 2011


Yeah, I read some of the posts on that blog. They seem like someone's creative writing exercises.
posted by delmoi at 3:25 PM on February 1, 2011


As a point of reference, the Bangkok hotel I'm posting from is lovely. The breakfast is a bit big for me, though.
posted by pompomtom at 3:53 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


Nonsense, pompomtom, the size of the breakfast suits you perfectly.
posted by ODiV at 4:03 PM on February 1, 2011 [19 favorites]


There is a tone in some writing these days that I wish would go away. Namely, the one that seems to assume that overconfidence and quirky self-awareness buys forgiveness and immunity from public scrutiny for what might normally be really bad life decisions.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:12 PM on February 1, 2011 [5 favorites]


She went to Interzone to have her surgery, not Thailand.
posted by benzenedream at 4:38 PM on February 1, 2011 [1 favorite]


Yeah but when you hear someone is going to have plastic surgery, there is a way to discuss it politely and tactfully, and unfortunately many (many!) men seem to forget rather easily that women's bodies don't exist purely to provide aesthetic pleasure for them.

Like, if someone I wasn't super close to mentioned to me that she was planning to get a breast enlargement, I'd probably say, "When did you decide this?" or "Have you been saving up a long time?" or "How big do you intend to go?" or any number of other polite conversational responses. Bringing up the topic of the surgery is not the same as opening your blouse and saying, "Tell me the truth -- whaddya think?"


You are right on the money. I had breast reduction surgery a little over four months ago and I was super excited and very open to talking about it. Most people were really cool and asked all sorts of questions and I was happy to answer. However, there were a few people (men) who actually got angry that I was having the procedure. Another one kept insisting (multiple times) in one conversation to go down to a D cup and not a C cup, because "that's what us guys like." Don't even get me started on how many guys asked to see them before they "went away." Ugh.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 5:01 PM on February 1, 2011 [5 favorites]


This whole blog is a terrific read, thanks for posting it.
posted by unliteral at 5:16 PM on February 1, 2011


Give me a solo one-way ticket to Saturn and I will still angst the whole time about my body-image issues, yes. I stopped my eating-disordered behavior 12 years ago, but I still have an anorexic self-image, and I am afraid I probably always will. I am capable of complete rational awareness that I am in fact pretty thin, and simultaneous complete irrational conviction that I will be disgusting until and unless I lose ten pounds. (If I did, it would be ten pounds more.) So yes, one can indeed internalize these things to such a degree that one will obsess about them even alone. I am happily married and no one cares about how I look, but I still have these thoughts, and it is still difficult to get the fuck over it and eat a sandwich sometimes. And if you put me on a desert island, I would be happy that I had to ration my coconuts and there was no one around to worry about me if I lost weight.

I am personally opposed to breast implants, because the idea of stitching a plastic bag of sillicone under my skin squicks me out to no end. But believe me, Body Dysmorphic Disorder, in all its forms, is definitely *not* just about other people's opinions. Not after you've had a few years to fixate on it.
posted by Because at 5:45 PM on February 1, 2011


MaryDellamorte: A friend who got a breast reduction in her 20s was told by her surgeon, "Why not wait a few years and enjoy them?"
posted by mandymanwasregistered at 6:36 PM on February 1, 2011


If this is truth, embellished: what the fuck is wrong with people?

If this is, as I suspect, mostly fiction: what the fuck is wrong with people?

Ah well. You, as they say, go, girl.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:59 PM on February 1, 2011


benzenedream: "She went to Interzone to have her surgery, not Thailand"

If you can dodge the boys that are hanging and spurting. If you can jump over the cockroach typewriters. If you have spent a year staring at your shoes. You may have the chance of going into a bar where they will pass you on to the Surgeon.

The Surgeon has fingernails of stainless steel and a boyish face. He first gives you a moue and then asks if you have a room. You say one more drink, but no. His nails drag a parallel shock across your bicep and a scar across your psyche.

You fade out and then back in, upon a dirty mattress that seems to move beneath you.

You fade out again.

Then you awaken upon a hard surface. You see everything in sepia tones. A voice in your ear asks, "Are you ready?"

You try to turn your head. But you can't. The voice tells you not to struggle, because it could...

"Cause issues."

Someone pulls a silk sheet from your lower body, you feel cold. The a stab. The nothing.

You want to scream but your mouth is filled with stinking cotton.

Before you pass out, you hear stomping and the sound off a horse screaming.

All is black.

You awake in an alley. You see in front of your face, your cheek on the cold wet concrete, a bottle of Vicodin. 60 days worth.

Yon try to get up. And you notice. Your pants are TOO SMALL. And something is moving. It's, it is all the way down your leg. While you lie there you feel a piece of cardstock in your hand. You bring it before your face. It's a crumpled note that says.

It will have its own mind for a while. But it's yours now. Take the drugs. Take some to make it better. Take more if you are afraid. Take them all to be gone. You get what you ask for in Interzone.

Good luck,

The Surgeon
posted by Splunge at 7:05 PM on February 1, 2011 [5 favorites]


I have a friend who has had dental surgery in Thailand and glasses prescribed in India. Dental surgery went really well for him, glasses were off and gave him headaches so he had to get a new prescription in Canada. Competency, like context, is everything. That and timing.
posted by arcticseal at 8:52 PM on February 1, 2011


Fantastic, the Surgeon is inspired.
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:56 AM on February 2, 2011


Apparently they really do have nurses on roller skates at the Yanhee International Hospital, assuming that's where she went for this procedure...
posted by ebear at 2:35 PM on February 2, 2011


What gman said, a thousand times. I've lived in Thailand and had health care in Thailand, and I call bullshit.
posted by cyndigo at 5:11 PM on February 3, 2011


Her follow-up post describes a train ride to Chiang Mai, and it is spot on. I do believe that either she is over there, or has been over there. That doesn't mean she's not making these medical details up, however.
posted by SpacemanStix at 10:07 AM on February 4, 2011


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