Detonate.net rants on freelancing with eLance
September 10, 2001 4:10 PM Subscribe
Detonate.net rants on freelancing with eLance “The problems on eLance can be divided roughly into two groups. Jackoff buyers, and lowball sellers.” All I see are projects to build complete e-commerce sites or full intranets for $1,000. Does anyone have a positive experience using eLance? Is there a better online resource for freelancers to find work?
Same thing for illustrators. It's frightening when you see someone offering to do an illustration for $25 (no, I'm not kidding) for a project that's worth $750.
A project that was worth $750 thirty years ago. 40 years ago. 50 years ago.
posted by edlundart at 5:58 PM on September 10, 2001
A project that was worth $750 thirty years ago. 40 years ago. 50 years ago.
posted by edlundart at 5:58 PM on September 10, 2001
I've personally taken a look at eLance bids quite a few times in the past while. I've seen lots of talk about the pro's and cons on many different design forums.
I personally think it's a HUGE waste of time to even bother posting stuff there because 12 year olds are going to out bid you. *sigh* If only people realized how much work goes into design and internet applications.
posted by Dav0xor at 7:06 PM on September 10, 2001
I personally think it's a HUGE waste of time to even bother posting stuff there because 12 year olds are going to out bid you. *sigh* If only people realized how much work goes into design and internet applications.
posted by Dav0xor at 7:06 PM on September 10, 2001
If there's a lesson in all of this, it's that people who value their time and skills should stay the fuck away from eLance.
amen. it was turning my stomach to see flash projects worth $10K - $15k getting bids of $175.00! too bad though, the writer didn't seem to know you can *look* at the projects without paying the fee. you just can't bid on them.
posted by centrs at 7:32 PM on September 10, 2001
amen. it was turning my stomach to see flash projects worth $10K - $15k getting bids of $175.00! too bad though, the writer didn't seem to know you can *look* at the projects without paying the fee. you just can't bid on them.
posted by centrs at 7:32 PM on September 10, 2001
is it completly naive of me as a design student to assume that something like this is fairly valid and, frankly, a fine resource for a designer who either really doesnt have the cred to charge tons of money, or needs some experience dealing with clients? im in the midst of one of my first commissioned freelance projects (a full corporate idenity, not through elance) and will be the first to admit that i cant and wont charge full price. one has to start somewhere, and while i guess a market being overrun by unprofessional and unskilled designers is unattractive, whos to say who should and shouldnt participate.
and, kingmissile, i really hope all the "REAL" designers and "web gurus" arent sitting at home waiting for a kickass design job to pop up on elance. im just saying.
posted by c at 9:01 PM on September 10, 2001
and, kingmissile, i really hope all the "REAL" designers and "web gurus" arent sitting at home waiting for a kickass design job to pop up on elance. im just saying.
posted by c at 9:01 PM on September 10, 2001
Genius! I was riveted throughout the entire rant. When eLance first launched I thought it was a great idea and signed right up -- it was free back then. I bid on about four projects before I figured out that it was a total waste of time. Then it took me four months to get myself removed from all their mailing lists... that stupid company spammed me more than a penis enlargement company -- always a sure sign of a quality organization!
Anyway, kirkarcha asked if there was a better way. I say make some sort of website where people can find you, and then just let word-of-mouth take it from there. That's about the only thing that's ever brought me any business... there's no magic to it, you just have to be patient.
posted by spilon at 9:04 PM on September 10, 2001
Anyway, kirkarcha asked if there was a better way. I say make some sort of website where people can find you, and then just let word-of-mouth take it from there. That's about the only thing that's ever brought me any business... there's no magic to it, you just have to be patient.
posted by spilon at 9:04 PM on September 10, 2001
is it completly naive of me as a design student to assume that something like this is fairly valid and, frankly, a fine resource for a designer who either really doesnt have the cred to charge tons of money, or needs some experience dealing with clients?
c: It would be good if eLance was that sort of resource, but in reality, the clients you're likely to get there are not going to be worth your time. There's nothing at all wrong with doing some projects cheap or for free in order to get yourself started. But make that deal with someone in your own hometown... someone you know. That way you're not only getting experience, but you're building a relationship. And learning how to deal with clients face to face is a valuable thing too.
posted by spilon at 9:15 PM on September 10, 2001
c: It would be good if eLance was that sort of resource, but in reality, the clients you're likely to get there are not going to be worth your time. There's nothing at all wrong with doing some projects cheap or for free in order to get yourself started. But make that deal with someone in your own hometown... someone you know. That way you're not only getting experience, but you're building a relationship. And learning how to deal with clients face to face is a valuable thing too.
posted by spilon at 9:15 PM on September 10, 2001
kingmissile, that's an ongoing problem everywhere -- I can't believe how many times I've told the client exactly how much money/time a web project will take only to have "are you sure you can't do it for less?" and "X, Y, or Z quoted me less." thrown back in my face.
Well, I could certainly do it for less, but it won't work then, will it?
Your point is exactly the point one of my graphic design teachers made while I was in school. If you charge less than you should -- even to get the job -- you're bringing down the entire profession and further solidifying the public's perception that design is worth beans.
Even with .org sites (which I occasionally design for free as a public service), I try to send them a bill for the exact amount the job would have cost (with a discount that reduces the price to zero dollars at the very end). Your work/time as a designer is worth money and this is a very important impression to make.
posted by Kikkoman at 9:15 PM on September 10, 2001
Well, I could certainly do it for less, but it won't work then, will it?
Your point is exactly the point one of my graphic design teachers made while I was in school. If you charge less than you should -- even to get the job -- you're bringing down the entire profession and further solidifying the public's perception that design is worth beans.
Even with .org sites (which I occasionally design for free as a public service), I try to send them a bill for the exact amount the job would have cost (with a discount that reduces the price to zero dollars at the very end). Your work/time as a designer is worth money and this is a very important impression to make.
posted by Kikkoman at 9:15 PM on September 10, 2001
Yeh, eLance is crap. I used the service when it was free. Or tried to, anyway. It was rediculous. Back then it consisted of morons and companies from INDIA with bad grammar spamming the RFCs.
Someone pointed out recentnly an RFC for some software "Like [microsoft] Word, only better." There was one bid. offering to do it for $175....
posted by delmoi at 9:41 PM on September 10, 2001
Someone pointed out recentnly an RFC for some software "Like [microsoft] Word, only better." There was one bid. offering to do it for $175....
posted by delmoi at 9:41 PM on September 10, 2001
I read this article a month or two ago, and it's so true! For all UK folks, you might find NoAgenciesPlease.com or Freelancers.net more useful, I certainly have.
posted by wackybrit at 10:47 PM on September 10, 2001
posted by wackybrit at 10:47 PM on September 10, 2001
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posted by kingmissile at 4:12 PM on September 10, 2001