Live stream of the Apple iPad 2 event

March 2, 2011 10:59 AM

Live stream of the Apple iPad 2 event
posted by nam3d (354 comments total)

Oddly enough, there is not an App for that.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:01 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Getting closer to that "single pane of glass" ideal, aren't they?
posted by Thorzdad at 11:01 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Specs
posted by Joe Beese at 11:03 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

There are lots of liveblogging sites doing this event, but this is actually the only video I've seen of someone in the audience. Even with the low crappy quality, this is cool.
posted by mathowie at 11:05 AM on March 2, 2011

The Smart Cover - which I don't understand.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:05 AM on March 2, 2011

Live blogging from the NY Times, Wired (with photos), and Engadget (also w/pics), amongst the multitude.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:06 AM on March 2, 2011

Ah, that'll be why Engadget was dead earlier.
posted by Artw at 11:08 AM on March 2, 2011

I know there's no way I'm that lucky, but I'm still going to crushed when I officially find out the Garage Band app won't run on the iPad 1.
posted by Freon at 11:08 AM on March 2, 2011

I have an iPad 1 and so far there's nothing really pushing me to upgrade except for Johnny Ive. Oh the things I would do to that man while he talked to me about milling single blocks of aluminum.
posted by msbutah at 11:09 AM on March 2, 2011 [6 favorites]

FAA OKs iPad for Pilots' Charts
posted by Joe Beese at 11:09 AM on March 2, 2011

Thorzdad: Getting closer to that "single pane of glass" ideal, aren't they?

Do you mean back to that ideal? Macbook Air was really thin, released back in 2008.

For live feeds, I prefer the NY times, as they're more text than pics.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:09 AM on March 2, 2011

Speculation of an iPad 3 to be released in December
posted by Joe Beese at 11:11 AM on March 2, 2011

Not really compelled to upgrade. If I do im not getting suckered into springing for 64gb again. The only app I've installed is Angry Birds.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:12 AM on March 2, 2011

Do you mean back to that ideal?
No, I mean the science fiction movie ideal of a single thin sheet of glass that one uses as a computer.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:12 AM on March 2, 2011

A good summary from the stream:

Dan Moren:
iPad 2 recap: faster, lighter, thinner, cameras, gyro, iOS 4.3 with FaceTime and PhotoBooth, iMovie & GarageBand ($5 each), over 65,000 apps; 3G on AT&T and Verizon from day one; same 10 hour battery life; same prices, starting at $499.
posted by bearwife at 11:12 AM on March 2, 2011

no 4g?
posted by czytm at 11:13 AM on March 2, 2011

While cool, without a Retina screen upgrade, I think I will pass on this. Thinner and lighter would be cool if I equated the iPad with "fat and slow," which I don't.
posted by geoff. at 11:13 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

More memory?
posted by Artw at 11:14 AM on March 2, 2011

Understatement of the Week: I think we stand a pretty good chance of being competitive in this market.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:16 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Speculation of an iPad 3 to be released in December

I think apple has found great success in releasing the iPod and the iPhone on a steady annual cycle. The new iPod always comes out right before xmas, around September. The new iPhone always comes out in June. New iPads, in March/April. I don't see any reason for them to speed up their release cycle, especially since they can watch the android market crater from constant upgrade releases coming out every two weeks and pissing off a lot of customers.
posted by mathowie at 11:16 AM on March 2, 2011 [7 favorites]

More memory?

You'll have to wait until the iFixit guys tear it down. Apple pimp memory like that, yo.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I love my iPad; use it every single day, without fail, and it's rare that I can say that truthfully about any of the techie gadgets I acquire.

But without Retina (or better) display, I'm gonna hold off upgrading until the iPad 3.
posted by ten pounds of inedita at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

er, DON'T pimp memory...I use to be gangsta, I swear!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2011

I'm glad that about a year ago, when I first looked at the iPad 1, I thought to myself, "Hmmm...maybe I'll get the next generation of this thing." Now to convince my husband...
posted by litnerd at 11:17 AM on March 2, 2011

Did they give it more than 256MB of RAM? I see no mention of it in the tech specs, so I'm guessing they're omitting this detail out of shame.
posted by mullingitover at 11:18 AM on March 2, 2011

More memory?

Up to 64GB per the specs Joe Beese posted up thread.
posted by bearwife at 11:18 AM on March 2, 2011

I'm actually kind of relieved that there's nothing in this announcement that's going to make me deeply unsatisfied with my current iPad, which I love.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:18 AM on March 2, 2011 [5 favorites]

Best of the Web™
posted by parhamr at 11:18 AM on March 2, 2011 [6 favorites]

I don't see any reason for them to speed up their release cycle, especially since they can watch the android market crater from constant upgrade releases coming out every two weeks and pissing off a lot of customers.

Yeah, the only rationale would be to ward off a perceived threat from Xoom and company - and I don't think anyone is perceiving much of one from them at the moment.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:19 AM on March 2, 2011

JOBS.

That was a welcome surprise.
posted by tzikeh at 11:19 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

cool if I equated the iPad with "fat and slow,"

I am a bit jealous of kindles. The IPad is just heavy enough that it is hard to used that way. I'm more likely to buy a kindle than upgrade though.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:19 AM on March 2, 2011

Did they give it more than 256MB of RAM? I see no mention of it in the tech specs, so I'm guessing they're omitting this detail out of shame.

No, the first one didn't explicitly mention how much memory it had, so it's not surprising this one won't either. I'm guessing they bumped it up to 512mb, but no one knows for sure yet.

Up to 64GB per the specs Joe Beese posted up thread.

That's hard drive space, not memory.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:20 AM on March 2, 2011

Waited till 4 for the iPhone, waited till 2 on the iPad. Can't wait for 3. My credit card burns for technical purchases...

Wonder if the purchase of iMovie I already made counts for the update? I have to say, $4.99 for Garage Band was an absolutely knock out price point. I have no desire musically more than to casually dick around with a few shiney GB UI bits, and I'm happy to pay a fiver for it.
posted by cavalier at 11:20 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Shipping the first day of SXSW, the Austin Apple should be fun that day...
posted by the_artificer at 11:21 AM on March 2, 2011

That's hard drive space, not memory.

Flash memory, to be pedantic.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:21 AM on March 2, 2011

I don't see any reason for them to speed up their release cycle, especially since they can watch the android market crater from constant upgrade releases coming out every two weeks and pissing off a lot of customers.

Oh, you mean tank like this?
posted by jessssse at 11:21 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Do you mean back to that ideal?

Thorzdad: No, I mean the science fiction movie ideal of a single thin sheet of glass that one uses as a computer.

Ah, yes.


More memory?

bearwife: Up to 64GB per the specs Joe Beese posted up thread.

I think the question was about RAM. The Inquirer says it'll get 512MB of RAM, which seems paltry.

And for geoff., "10-inch 1600x1200 resolution retina quality display"
posted by filthy light thief at 11:22 AM on March 2, 2011

I will be getting this one, thanks to the camera, and will be getting it with as much memory as possible, thanks to the camera. The ability to shoot video and edit it on the fly is really appealing, but can chew up memory like nobody's business. And this seems ideal for the sorts of music I make, which can also be a memory hog when you multitrack.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:22 AM on March 2, 2011

I do like the smart cover. Still scratching my head over why I need an Ipad, though. Already own and use an Itouch, Kindle and Droid.
posted by bearwife at 11:23 AM on March 2, 2011

you mean tank like this?

Smartphones ain't tablets.

[Please read in the tone of "Machete don't text".]
posted by Joe Beese at 11:24 AM on March 2, 2011

I'm going to guess no MobileMe news until iPhone 5 with the new OS. Bummer.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:24 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Seems odd that iOS 4.3 will be available for everything except the Verizon iPhone.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:25 AM on March 2, 2011

I love how he's talking about a "post-pc world" or some such, then comparing themselves to cell phones. Hmmmm.
posted by Cyclopsis Raptor at 11:26 AM on March 2, 2011

It supports 8 tracks for recording, which makes 512 mb ram seem really thin.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:26 AM on March 2, 2011

The IPad is just heavy enough that it is hard to used that way.

It's true that the iPad is significantly heavier than the Kindle, roughly twice as heavy in fact, but the iPad also has a much larger screen. By comparison, the iPad 2 is virtually the same size and weight as the current Kindle DX. Whether the increased weight is worth the increased screen real estate depends on the user.

A point they didn't mention in the announcement: the iPad 2 is now as thin as the Kindle 3 (both are .34 inches thick). So it's down to height and width, which are somewhat unavoidable given the screen size, and weight.
posted by jedicus at 11:28 AM on March 2, 2011

Still scratching my head over why I need an Ipad, though. Already own and use an Itouch, Kindle and Droid.

Not everybody does, I'm sure. For me it was the perfect sweetspot between an iPhone (too small for my astigmatic eyes and fat fingers) and a laptop (unnecessarily large and heavy for the web browsing/email that is the vast majority of what I do away from my desktop.)
posted by Horace Rumpole at 11:28 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

"Don't cry for me, Cupertino..."
posted by Joe Beese at 11:28 AM on March 2, 2011

I'm as underwhelmed as I was last year.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:29 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Fortunately Apple's stock is not dependent on how whelmed you are.
posted by spicynuts at 11:30 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

filthy light thief: And for geoff., "10-inch 1600x1200 resolution retina quality display"

I have no idea what you're reading, but it sure as hell ain't the official specs.
posted by koeselitz at 11:30 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Smartphones ain't tablets.

To be fair, Google has always said that before Honeycomb, Android wasn't intended for tablets. And they've also said that they're going to stretch out their release-cycles.

Still scratching my head over why I need an Ipad, though. Already own and use an Itouch, Kindle and Droid.

Same here. I have a smartphone and an embarrassing number of laptops that I can use when I watching TV, or when I'm out somewhere, so I just don't see where a tablet would fit into my life. That said, if someone were to give me one for free, I'd be pretty happy.
posted by jessssse at 11:31 AM on March 2, 2011

I don't recall saying anything about Apple's stock. In fact, Apple stock doing well is only to my benefit.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:31 AM on March 2, 2011

Speculation of an iPad 3 to be released in December

It'll be interesting to see how well the iPad 2 does, and whether Apple ends up undercutting itself with people waiting for the third rev. On the other hand, HP kept pushing quick revamp cycles of its inkjet printers, even though it was cannibalizing its own market share, and they seemed to do okay.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:31 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Ah. You're reading the Inquirer story you linked to. Heh. Well, it's wrong, anyway; nota bene.
posted by koeselitz at 11:32 AM on March 2, 2011

hardware looks nice, but iOS is starting to look awfully long in the tooth compared to some of its competitors... the better sort out the abysmal notification system in short order -- i'm surprised that there wasn't even a "heads up" preview of what iOS 5.0 might have in store (assuming it is coming this summer).
posted by modernnomad at 11:33 AM on March 2, 2011

I don't recall saying anything about Apple's stock. In fact, Apple stock doing well is only to my benefit.

I'm underwhelmed with your sense of humor.
posted by spicynuts at 11:34 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Still scratching my head over why I need an Ipad

I never knew I needed one till I got one. I carry it with me all the time. I bought a fancy briefcase to carry it even thought my briefcase contains nothing but an IPad and people make fun of me because the briefcase is heavier than the IPad. I walk around my apartment carrying it, if I put it down and lose track of it I have a mini panic attack and have to go find it. I use it as a flashlight if I am walking down a dark hallway. I run it down from 100% to 0% every single day, I ended up buying 6-7 plugs so I can have one in every room. Hell maybe I will buy one of these so I have have one to carry while my other one is charging.
posted by Ad hominem at 11:34 AM on March 2, 2011 [11 favorites]

i'm surprised that there wasn't even a "heads up" preview of what iOS 5.0 might have in store (assuming it is coming this summer)

Maybe they'll cover it at the dev conference in the summer.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:35 AM on March 2, 2011

My laptop is coming out of its 3 year Applecare right now and I'm really considering iMac + iPad as a replacement. I'm not sure it's right for me but it might do for my husband the next time around.

(Ad hominem, I'm totally that way about my iPhone, except for the plugs, which are for my MBP. You are not alone.)
posted by immlass at 11:35 AM on March 2, 2011

I'm underwhelmed with your sense of humor.

As you should be. I wasn't trying to be funny. I own Apple stock. I do not crave an iPad. Pretty simple. Not sure why you're so offended by that.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:35 AM on March 2, 2011

Still scratching my head over why I need an Ipad

I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:36 AM on March 2, 2011 [6 favorites]

Seems odd that iOS 4.3 will be available for everything except the Verizon iPhone.

The Verizon iPhone is already running 4.3, hence that "exclusive for a limited time" tethering feature."
posted by Mr. Anthropomorphism at 11:36 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Finally. This is the product that will ease the pain of my crushing modern life.
posted by notion at 11:36 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I think they were making a joke, eyeball, not being offended.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:36 AM on March 2, 2011

JOBS.

That was a welcome surprise.

It was. It's good to see him up and about.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:37 AM on March 2, 2011

If the new version isn't turning your crank but you'd still like an iPad, the iPad 1 is on sale for $100 off (i.e. ranging from $399 to $729). That's fairly aggressive pricing, lower than refurbished models were selling for.
posted by jedicus at 11:37 AM on March 2, 2011

I think they were making a joke, eyeball, not being offended.

Ah. Then I am again underwhelmed.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:38 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

bee boop boop humor is illogical
posted by entropicamericana at 11:39 AM on March 2, 2011 [8 favorites]

Anyone see any details on the still image resolution of the back camera?
posted by the_artificer at 11:39 AM on March 2, 2011

I prepared myself for dismissing this as just 'iPad too' but it seems compelling -- DAMMIT STEVE JOBS AND YOUR MAGICAL TECH FACTORY!
posted by mazola at 11:40 AM on March 2, 2011

Anyone see any details on the still image resolution of the back camera?

Engadget is reporting 720p.
posted by Freon at 11:41 AM on March 2, 2011

I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.

Viagra.
posted by spicynuts at 11:41 AM on March 2, 2011 [9 favorites]

but iOS is starting to look awfully long in the tooth compared to some of its competitors...

1. What competitors?

2. Be careful about equating your personal wants with what the market wants.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:41 AM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

I would have gotten iPad 1, but the new one was on the way and promised a camera. IT ACTUALLY HAS TWO, ONE ON EACH SIDE.

Which, as my girlfriend points out, makes it ideal for orgies.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:41 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.

Not many other consumer products come with constant exhortations that they are magical things that change the entire world.
posted by kafziel at 11:43 AM on March 2, 2011 [8 favorites]

I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.

That may be a reaction to the collective "new shiny thing" lust that pops up in consumer tech threads.
posted by benzenedream at 11:43 AM on March 2, 2011

I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.

If the time you spend on this site is any indicator of the time you spend on rest of the Internet, I find that hard to believe.
posted by eyeballkid at 11:44 AM on March 2, 2011

Refurb iPad 1's are starting at $349 at the Apple Store.

They'll probably sell a few of those.....
posted by dglynn at 11:44 AM on March 2, 2011

Which, as my girlfriend points out, makes it ideal for orgies.

Go on...
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:44 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

I can't afford one so therefore they suck and are stupid.
posted by LordSludge at 11:47 AM on March 2, 2011 [15 favorites]

I am torn between buying a macbook and an ipad, personally.
posted by empath at 11:48 AM on March 2, 2011

2. Be careful about equating your personal wants with what the market wants.


But as a consumer, why would I express anything other than my personal wants? I'm not an investor.

So to clarify, in my humble, personal view, iOS is looking a bit dated and could benefit from a strong visual refresh. I hope that happens this summer.
posted by modernnomad at 11:49 AM on March 2, 2011

With the added HDMI capability, are we just an app away from making this into a viable HD-DSLR monitor?

I know they're calling it an HDMI "out", but I didn't think HDMI was directional.
posted by apranica at 11:49 AM on March 2, 2011

use it every single day

In this post-outhouse world, I use my flush toilet everyday. I'm definitely looking forward to the next release from Armitage Shanks, and the requisite front page post.
posted by Brocktoon at 11:49 AM on March 2, 2011 [13 favorites]

Ah, the post-PC world. Where all your devices are locked down and controlled by corporations bent on extracting as much cash from your use as possible (i.e. 30% cut on subscription services). Great.
posted by delmoi at 11:50 AM on March 2, 2011 [10 favorites]

51 minutes... Is that a new record? You guys are slipping.
posted by entropicamericana at 11:51 AM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

i.e. 30% cut on subscription services

Various regulatory bodies are looking into that. I don't expect it to last long in its current form.
posted by jedicus at 11:52 AM on March 2, 2011

What competitors?

RIM is going to rule this market.

Uh... eventually.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:54 AM on March 2, 2011

Where all your devices are locked down and controlled by corporations...

Yet, I can surf the web, write, bank, create, watch movies and a bunch of other stuff with the device. There's a weird definition of locked down and controlled.

.. bent on extracting as much cash from your use as possible...

I know, it's totally weird that a company would do that! Apple is pioneer yet again!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:54 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I used my iPad a lot more before buying an iPhone. The iPhone is good enough for most of what I used the iPad for, and it is always within arm's reach.I still like the iPad for a few things like travelling, but I probably couldn't justify buying it new.

I am rather disappointed that Apple continues to just ignore the whole "this requires wired syncing" issue. Seems so primitive nowadays, and means you can't really replace your computer with the iPad.
posted by smackfu at 11:56 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

I know they're calling it an HDMI "out", but I didn't think HDMI was directional.

It all depends on how the hardware is exposed to developers. The capability might be there, but if developers can't write monitor apps then no dice, at least without jailbreaking. That said I don't know why Apple wouldn't want to let the iPad function as an HDMI monitor. Sell it as a way to use your iPad as a portable monitor for your Mac Mini. Or as a second display for your MacBook. Lots of vertical integration possibilities there.
posted by jedicus at 11:56 AM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

corporations bent on extracting as much cash from your use as possible (i.e. 30% cut on subscription services)

Grubezilla:

This is what galls some: Apple is doing this because they can, and no other company is in a position to do it. This is not a fear that in-app subscriptions will fail because Apple’s 30 percent slice is too high, but rather that in-app subscriptions will succeed despite Apple’s (in their minds) egregious profiteering. I.e. that charging what the market will bear is somehow unscrupulous. To the charge that Apple Inc. is a for-profit corporation run by staunch capitalists, I say, “Duh”.
posted by Joe Beese at 11:57 AM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I think my favorite part of the press conference is when they revealed that the fancy new 'smartCover' is made of 'polyurethane', which "is used to make spacesuits!"
posted by SweetJesus at 11:58 AM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Crazy. So you're telling me that Gruber supports an Apple decision?
posted by eyeballkid at 11:59 AM on March 2, 2011 [9 favorites]

As to the device itself, someone mentioned that you plug instruments into it? Is that so? 'Cause that would be pretty cool.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:01 PM on March 2, 2011

As to the device itself, someone mentioned that you plug instruments into it? Is that so? 'Cause that would be pretty cool.

This had been possible across the iDevices for a while now. There's a pretty good selection of music apps already for iOS.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:02 PM on March 2, 2011

Speculation of an iPad 3 to be released in December

So here's my take on why we may see another iPad in a relatively short time.

This iPad was a rare move for Apple, to offset the new competitors. They added the features that were "easy" to add like cameras and a better processor which strikes a few items off the new Android tablets' competitive check-box lists. They released software which is again relatively easy (versus a h/w dev cycle) but which has a HUGE impact. Garage Band was killer. I'm so-so about iPad iMovie, but there are a lot of multi-track recorders going onto craigslist on March 11th.

But ultimately Apple needs a "real" iPad upgrade soon and they are no doubt working on it. More memory, a significantly different screen, a major OS rev. And I bet it's been developed concurrently with the iPad 2. So it'll be out sonner rather than later.

I think my favorite part of the press conference is when they revealed that the fancy new 'smartCover' is made of 'polyurethane', which "is used to make spacesuits!"

My fave was that they added a user preference for what the mute/lock switch does. WOW. A USER PREFERENCE. THANKS APPLE.
posted by GuyZero at 12:02 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Yeah, how do you plug a guitar into it and use it as an amp/recording device? What interface does that even use?
posted by mathowie at 12:02 PM on March 2, 2011

What interface does that even use?

iRig seems to be the most popular.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:04 PM on March 2, 2011

Yeah, how do you plug a guitar into it and use it as an amp/recording device? What interface does that even use?

One of the photos showed a guitar-plug dongle that had a dock connector on the other end. You'll but a 3rd party gizmo of some type to jack in all your instruments.
posted by GuyZero at 12:04 PM on March 2, 2011

You buy a little device that is essentially a DAW. you then can use various apps from the app store. search under music.
posted by spicynuts at 12:05 PM on March 2, 2011

I don't understand why i should care that apple gets a 30% cut. I'm not going to pay for a subscription to anything, regardless..

My fave was that they added a user preference for what the mute/lock switch does. WOW. A USER PREFERENCE. THANKS APPLE.

I actually appreciate that apple has thinks about whether user preferences are necessary or not. I think adding a bunch of preferences can be a lazy way to fix ui problems that might have a better solution.
posted by empath at 12:05 PM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

mathowie: I think this was the device shown in the iPad 2 video. Apogee Jam Guitar Input, 90 bucks.
posted by hijinx at 12:05 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

yes iRig is the standard one that I've seen most of the apps use.
posted by spicynuts at 12:05 PM on March 2, 2011

I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.

The issue I have is that this is going to be on the front page of the news immediately, displacing things that are pretty goddamned important. It's a result of Apple's brilliant marketing team, which has convinced people, including reporters, that they are really changing the world. Cool products? Sure, and some of the best designed on the planet. Magical and Revolutionary? Well, no. Some people working hard to put money in their pocket is nothing magical, and certainly not revolutionary.

It's not that Apple is evil or anything. I think it's a reflection of shitty journalism, which pushes stories that aren't political because they're too chickenshit to take a stand on anything, and the lusty consumerism that pervades American society.
posted by notion at 12:05 PM on March 2, 2011 [7 favorites]

Crazy. So you're telling me that Gruber supports an Apple decision?

When the announcement was first made and he wasn't addressing it, I thought, "Ha! Even Gruber isn't trying to defend this!". I shouldn't have sold him short.

But I find it hard to disagree with that excerpt.
posted by Joe Beese at 12:05 PM on March 2, 2011

You buy a little device that is essentially a DAW. you then can use various apps from the app store. search under music.

Can you elaborate on this more? I'm interested.
posted by empath at 12:06 PM on March 2, 2011

Joe Beese: “I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.”

Yeah, but it's a product that lots of people have that experience with: they didn't know they 'needed' it until they got one. Seriously, who among us was sitting at home five years ago thinking: "you know what I need? A tiny tablet PC with a touchscreen."

That's how it is for me. The only reason I ended up with an iPad is because my company got acquired at the end of last year and decided to give all of us iPads as a bonus. I still probably wouldn't buy one (for reasons I'll discuss.)

But it has become part of my life in ways I really did not imagine at all when I got it. At first it seemed like a toy – a little device for playing mobile games. There's nothing wrong with that, I guess, but it's not much. Now, however – just to take one example – it's the only sheet-music book I carry; I have two piano benches worth of books at home, but they are stored permanently now, because a tiny little pad I can carry with just the right dimensions has a few thousand pages of music on it. That's really useful, as much as I dislike admitting it, and as much as I dislike being 'that guy' carrying this trendy little toy around. And I use the AC-7 Control Surface app for running Cubase when I'm recording; people who do recording are used to paying $1000 + for touch-based control surfaces like the Lemur. This is a much cheaper solution, and works just as well.

delmoi: “Where all your devices are locked down and controlled by corporations...”

Brandon Blatcher: “Yet, I can surf the web, write, bank, create, watch movies and a bunch of other stuff with the device. There's a weird definition of locked down and controlled.”

Well, as the owner of an iPad, and as someone who uses it all day every day, I can say: I agree with delmoi. It's locked down in some annoying ways. Seriously, when was the last time you tried to download a song and play it? Ha. You have to go through backflips and hope that there's a button in just the right place that lets you open the file in the (non-iPod, because iPod doesn't do this) music player of your choice. It's bad to the point where the best apps have to do a dozen things at once. For example, the media player I use, 0Player, is basically a combination FTP client and media player. Weird, but at least I don't have to do some crazy button-pushing open-in-another-app thing and hope that it works.

This is what happens when you lock down the filesystem and put it under corporate control. They're doing this to make money, yeah. And I do use the device. But that's why I wouldn't buy another one unless I had control of the filesystem. Again, I don't mind the simpler interface in general; but it'd be nice not to find myself locked out at every turn. So I'll probably buy something non-Apple if I ever actually buy a tablet computer.
posted by koeselitz at 12:06 PM on March 2, 2011 [10 favorites]

See the links to iRig above.
posted by spicynuts at 12:07 PM on March 2, 2011

I actually appreciate that apple has thinks about whether user preferences are necessary or not. I think adding a bunch of preferences can be a lazy way to fix ui problems that might have a better solution.

On the flip side, their default stance is that they know better than you do.
posted by GuyZero at 12:07 PM on March 2, 2011

spicynuts: “You buy a little device that is essentially a DAW. you then can use various apps from the app store. search under music.”

Yeah, this is interesting, and I don't really know what you mean. "A little device"? Do you mean you can use the iPad as a control surface for various computer-based DAWs?
posted by koeselitz at 12:08 PM on March 2, 2011

Ah, I see the context of the conversation. Sorry, spicynuts.
posted by koeselitz at 12:09 PM on March 2, 2011

You would use the iPad to run an app like GigDaddy, which is a four track and you would use the iRig as the analog to digital converter between your guitar and the iPad. Or, you would run an amp modeler app the same way.
posted by spicynuts at 12:10 PM on March 2, 2011

On the flip side, their default stance is that they know better than you do.

Well, chances are they probably do, since they spend a lot of money on UI research, and I don't.

Usually I find that things that I expect to annoy me don't bother me as much as I thought, and things that I didn't even think I would use, I use all the time. It's kind of the magic of Apple.
posted by empath at 12:11 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Seriously, when was the last time you tried to download a song and play it?

About two days ago. It downloaded. Went to Music, hit play, it played, just like always.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:11 PM on March 2, 2011

When is ios 4.3 coming out?

March 11.
posted by jedicus at 12:12 PM on March 2, 2011

he's not talking about itunes
posted by empath at 12:12 PM on March 2, 2011

"Ha! Even Gruber isn't trying to defend this!"

Yeah, in his defense, which of course he doesn't really need, he's kinda just defending the whole concept of capitalism there, not just Apple.
posted by kingbenny at 12:13 PM on March 2, 2011

Brandon Blatcher: “About two days ago. It downloaded. Went to Music, hit play, it played, just like always.”

I would like it if you would show me how to do this. You can download songs in Safari – from, say, your own FTP site, or from MeFi music, etc – and then play them in Music / iPod? Also, does this work for opening PDFs? Other documents? I've had so much trouble with this stuff you wouldn't believe. I guess all of us that complain about this might be idiots... it'd be wonderful to be proven wrong, I guess.
posted by koeselitz at 12:14 PM on March 2, 2011

Can you elaborate on this more? I'm interested.

The simplest version of this would be something like the iRig with Fourtrack. Quick and dirty four track recording. More complex would be importing samples into something like NanoStudio or the recently updated Beatmaker 2. It gets wonky when you start to cut and paste between apps, and it's way easier on a MacBook, but it's kind of cool to get away with sketching out ideas on a phone.

There are a ton of iOS music apps in the store now. My personal fave these days is the Moog Filatron.
posted by eyeballkid at 12:14 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I would like it if you would show me how to do this. You can download songs in Safari – from, say, your own FTP site, or from MeFi music, etc – and then play them in Music / iPod?

Ah, you really aren't talking about iTunes. You're right, that can't be done on an iDevice. *shrugs&
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:16 PM on March 2, 2011

Brandon: Are you talking about a non-iTunes source? I don't think anyone denies that paying the piper gets you your stuff. The issue is that Apple wants to be the gatekeeper of your whole life, and charge a 30% cover to anyone who wants to use the door. And then make it illegal or "against Apple policy" if you want to install an alternative. Even if you want to install an app that Apple doesn't approve of.

It's not, "I'm sorry, I can't do that, Dave." It's "I'm sorry, Steve says you aren't allowed to do that." It's pretty fucking creepy if you ask me.
posted by notion at 12:16 PM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

I'm unaware of any other consumer product that elicits such public declarations of one's lack of interest or need in it.

Oh, I actually didn't mean to declare myself. I sincerely am wondering whether I should get one. Then I say to myself -- and why do you need it, owner of excellent laptop, Droid, Kindle and Itouch to name only the most late model of my electronics ? IANYL so I'm less jazzed about being able to make music or edit movie on it than people in other professions might be.
posted by bearwife at 12:19 PM on March 2, 2011

wow. I was still focused on the Academy Awards and Charlie Sheen...this caught me off guard. Am I supposed to care? Does it cure cancer? Do away with all fossil fuel? Fix the global warming?
Ok. Get in touch and you can send one or more to me for my birthday or anniversary or high school graduation.
posted by Postroad at 12:22 PM on March 2, 2011

Also, does this work for opening PDFs?

You can open and save PDFs in iBooks pretty easily.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:24 PM on March 2, 2011

Oh the things I would do to that man while he talked to me about milling single blocks of aluminum aluminium.

FTFY, listen more closely next time ;-)
posted by furtive at 12:26 PM on March 2, 2011

You can open and save PDFs in pretty much everything on the iPad.
posted by furtive at 12:26 PM on March 2, 2011

I love my iPad and, with my external keyboard, can do most of my computing on it (I don't own a laptop, a smart phone, or a Kindle, and I'm often last in line for the shared family desktop and the shared family TVs, so I get a lot of mileage out of mine). I'm about ready to buy an iPad 2 just because I like that Smart Cover so much.
posted by not that girl at 12:27 PM on March 2, 2011

I actually appreciate that apple has thinks about whether user preferences are necessary or not. I think adding a bunch of preferences can be a lazy way to fix ui problems that might have a better solution.

This was a particularly bad case though. iPad came out, button did one thing. Software update months later changed it to something else. Now new software allows you to pick which one is best for you. It didn't really seem to be well planned at all.
posted by smackfu at 12:27 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Does it cure cancer?

Well, some doctors are using it for medical imaging and reviewing patient charts. So that's something. It's not nothing, anyway.

Do away with all fossil fuel?

The addition of FaceTime may encourage more telecommuting and reduce the need to travel for meetings. And digital magazine and newspaper subscriptions reduce the fossil fuels used to ship print versions. But that's all kind of a stretch.
posted by jedicus at 12:28 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Guess I'll wait. I want that rumored SD card slot - I would use an iPad primarily for photo management, apart from general Web foofaraw.
posted by catlet at 12:28 PM on March 2, 2011

Rock Steady: “You can open and save PDFs in iBooks pretty easily.”

Not really. You have to email them to yourself. (Your link describes how to open PDFs that have been sent as attachments. People do that because that seems to be the only way to independently get PDFs into iBooks.) I've done this a few times before – I've since ditched iBooks in favor of a few other readers that I think are better (CloudReader and Stanza) – and it's a hassle. Why can't I download a PDF from Safari and open it in iBooks? Again, the essential problem here is that they're trying to do away with the filesystem "metaphor" and leave nothing in its place. And that makes things hard.
posted by koeselitz at 12:29 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I held off to see what today's release would bring. I've been on the cusp of getting an iPad for reading comics as well as the usual light web and email stuff.

I decided to pick up a refurb 32GB iPad 1 for $429. The new one is thinner and NEW, but I don't really need the cameras and I don't foresee myself needing the extra speed.

I hope I'm not wrong
posted by Fleebnork at 12:31 PM on March 2, 2011

Why can't I download a PDF from Safari and open it in iBooks

You can from Safari.

Just tap the link, the PDF will open in the same window.

Tap the PDF, a toolbar will appear.

On the toolbar is a button "Open in ibooks" and another button "Open in..." which opens the PDF in any app that handles PDFs
posted by device55 at 12:33 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

The addition of FaceTime may encourage more telecommuting

In my experience, the biggest obstacle to telecommuting is not technology, but middle managers who want people physically present so they look like they're managing someone.

When I worked at Boeing we had a phrase for that: "Meat in the seat."
posted by Fleebnork at 12:33 PM on March 2, 2011 [5 favorites]

There are a number of ways to add PDFs to an iBooks library.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:33 PM on March 2, 2011

Why can't I download a PDF from Safari and open it in iBooks?

I promise you you can. I just did it this morning.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:34 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

The issue is that Apple wants to be the gatekeeper of your whole life, and charge a 30% cover to anyone who wants to use the door. And then make it illegal or "against Apple policy" if you want to install an alternative. Even if you want to install an app that Apple doesn't approve of.

"Your whole life"? Really?

As for their wanting to be the gatekeeper of everything in the iOS-verse...

From the Department of Headlines You Don’t See About the iPhone

Lifehacker: “How Can I Tell If an Android App Is Malware?”

Apple does usually know better than the user. [Removing orientation lock from the switch being an exception that proves the rule.]
posted by Joe Beese at 12:35 PM on March 2, 2011

Mark me down as someone who downloads PDFs into iBooks via Safari. iPhone 4.
posted by polyhedron at 12:40 PM on March 2, 2011

Malware is hardly unique to Android.
posted by Pyry at 12:41 PM on March 2, 2011

I'm looking forward to dumping my smartphone, buying one of these, jailbreaking it, tethering it to a plain old phone via bluetooth, and embracing the future.

Some of us just dream... different.
posted by blue_beetle at 12:41 PM on March 2, 2011

Still scratching my head over why I need an Ipad, though. Already own and use an Itouch, Kindle and Droid.

Somebody who owns two state-of-the-art mobile computing devices AND a dedicated eBook reader does not get to pretend that their purchasing decisions are motivated by need.
posted by dersins at 12:42 PM on March 2, 2011 [12 favorites]

blue_beetle: Some of us just dream... differently.

Sorry.
posted by filthy light thief at 12:43 PM on March 2, 2011

blue_beetle: Some of us just dream... differently.

Sorry.

You're messing up the play on "Think Different" with that "correction".
posted by litnerd at 12:45 PM on March 2, 2011

The Think Different advert irks me.

Lolly lolly lolly, get you adverbs here....
posted by filthy light thief at 12:49 PM on March 2, 2011

Adverbs bug me. As do gerunds.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:50 PM on March 2, 2011

Sorry... your whole digital life: music, movies, applications. Which would represent, besides browsing websites, my entire digital life. And now they are demanding that any subscriptions also provide them with their cut. Philosophically, iOS the closest thing to Stalinism you can get as far as operating systems go. The Company must approve your apps. The Company must approve your music. The Company must approve your movies. The Company does not allow porn, which they alone can define.

The thing is, compared to most netbooks and all laptops/desktops, the power usage of an iPad is extraordinarily low. And it's very, very recyclable. If Apple ever allowed me to legally install Linux on it, I would consider buying one and see if I could power it with a small solar array. It's not that I just hate Apple for the sake of hating it. They make some cool stuff.

But The Company has decided that they get to choose what I'm allowed to do with things that I have bought and paid for. And The Company has said that they think jailbreaking should remain illegal. As in, they want to have the right to throw me in prison for running unapproved software on their hardware. With all lack of respect, fuck that.
posted by notion at 12:55 PM on March 2, 2011 [8 favorites]

Am I the only one that's disappointed the price didn't change, or the fact that the 1st generation is only $100 cheaper than the 2nd generation? I've been burned in the past, and I was expecting Apple to drop the price. Heck, the iPhone 3gs was dropped to $99 when the iPhone 4 came out. I was kind of hoping the iPad 1 would drop to between $199 and $299. Why pay $399 for last year's model when $499 will get me the latest and greatest?

Not that I can afford either of the actual price points.
posted by narwhal bacon at 12:56 PM on March 2, 2011

Philosophically, iOS the closest thing to Stalinism you can get as far as operating systems go.

Oh, for Christ's sake.
posted by grubi at 12:59 PM on March 2, 2011 [10 favorites]

Am I the only one that's disappointed the price didn't change, or the fact that the 1st generation is only $100 cheaper than the 2nd generation?

I'm a little disappointed, though I wasn't planning on buying soon. Apple perceives themselves to be in a position of strength though, and they probably don't have a need to drop the prices yet, considering their record sales.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:00 PM on March 2, 2011

And The Company has said that they think jailbreaking should remain illegal. As in, they want to have the right to throw me in prison for running unapproved software on their hardware.

Cite, please?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:00 PM on March 2, 2011

Yeah if there was a device with the same form factor running almost any other OS I would switch.

The fact that many of the links I click end up being broken due to lack of flash really really annoys me.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:01 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

The Company must approve your apps.
True.

The Company must approve your music.
False.

The Company must approve your movies.
False.

The Company does not allow porn, which they alone can define.
False.

Next?
posted by entropicamericana at 1:02 PM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

And The Company has said that they think jailbreaking should remain illegal.

Yes, Apple opposed the jailbreaking exception, but it's there now.

As in, they want to have the right to throw me in prison for running unapproved software on their hardware.

This is unsupported by the facts. As far as I know, Apple never took any legal action against any makers of jailbreaking software. The only action they've taken against individual jailbreakers is to (threaten to) void their warranties. I haven't heard of any actual cases of people being denied warranty service because of jailbreaking, though I would believe it if I were told otherwise.

"The Company must approve your apps."
True.

And even here one can, technically, pay $99/year and install basically whatever you want. Now, maybe that's a crappy price and maybe you shouldn't have to pay anything at all, but the option is there.
posted by jedicus at 1:04 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Philosophically, iOS the closest thing to Stalinism you can get as far as operating systems go.

Look, I realize this is an impossibly broad and sweeping statement, and there's really no way to prove it, but I think there's a strong possibility that that's the silliest statement in the history of Metafilter.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 1:07 PM on March 2, 2011 [11 favorites]

I don't know. My iPhone did send me to the gulag once.
posted by Drastic at 1:07 PM on March 2, 2011 [7 favorites]

The fact that many of the links I click end up being broken due to lack of flash really really annoys me.

I haven't had great luck with random web video either. A lot of it still seems to be Flash-based with no fallback.
posted by smackfu at 1:09 PM on March 2, 2011

My iPhone did send me to the gulag once.

I once had a Mac Mini that pulled me over for speeding then proceeded to beat the shit out of me, claiming I "resisted arrest."
posted by grubi at 1:09 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

For my tastes, the screen is just too small (and the screen keyboard mostly unusable beyond hunt and peck). I would love an iPad with an active screen dimension of 8½ by 11 inches(standard US letter paper size). I'd also love it if they could also tone done the screen gloss while retaining capacitive touch usablility (I hate seeing my reflection while watching videos). And I suppose hell will freeze over before Apple would incorporate a SD slot for removable storage...
posted by Auden at 1:12 PM on March 2, 2011

I know there's no way I'm that lucky, but I'm still going to crushed when I officially find out the Garage Band app won't run on the iPad 1.

An Apple engineer has tweeted that Garage Band will work on the iPad 1.
posted by jedicus at 1:12 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I haven't had great luck with random web video either. A lot of it still seems to be Flash-based with no fallback.

Skyfire kinda plays web videos. It is a pretty cumbersome process for something that should really just work.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:14 PM on March 2, 2011

for something that should really just work.

Well, if Flash wasn't broken to begin with...
posted by grubi at 1:15 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Yeah, this is interesting, and I don't really know what you mean. "A little device"? Do you mean you can use the iPad as a control surface for various computer-based DAWs?

I've been using it as a control surface for both Apple Logic and Ableton Live.
posted by malocchio at 1:17 PM on March 2, 2011

Apple is opposed to the proposed Class #1 exemption because it will destroy the technological protection of Apple’s key copyrighted computer programs in the iPhone™ device itself and of copyrighted content owned by Apple that plays on the iPhone, resulting in copyright infringement, potential damage to the device and other potential harmful physical effects, adverse effects on the functioning of the device, and breach of contract. The proponents of the exemption have also not satisfied their burden of proof of showing harm to non-infringing uses of the copyrighted works protected by the technological protection measures on the iPhone. In addition, because Congress has already explicitly addressed circumvention for interoperability in Section 1201(f) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), the Copyright Office should not create interoperability exemptions outside that statutory structure, at least without a clear showing of specific and significant harm, which has not been put forth here. (source)

Thankfully the government disagreed, but Apple wanted the full legal protection of the DMCA, which has been used to jail and prosecute people in the past.

Stalinism is obviously a stretch, but if not allowed a little rhetorical flourish every now and then, what's the point? (And what other OS comes closer?)

Let's just say that iOS is what Sony would write, if Sony could figure out how to write an operating system.
posted by notion at 1:19 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Eh, that's probably another argument, but Flash isn't going away soon, and a hardware platform should be able to easily churn through it.

I would love to see Apple write its own flash player plugin, then open-source the technology and give it to the Gnash project.

Just because it would create a giant shitstorm of internets lulz.
posted by device55 at 1:23 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Yes, Apple opposed the jailbreaking exception, but it's there now.

Well, legally. The recent news that iBooks is now doing checks to see if unsigned code will run (and stopping iBooks if it does) suggests that Apple is out to not only provide security out of the box for the non-tinkering user but to try and make sure the tinkerers have a hard time of it.
posted by weston at 1:25 PM on March 2, 2011

With all lack of respect, fuck that.

OK.

No, really. Don't buy one. We can still hang out.

See how easy that was?

Unless the issue is how incredibly stupid the 10 million people who bought one are.

Can't help you there.
posted by Joe Beese at 1:27 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Well, if Flash wasn't broken to begin with...

You could make the argument that Apple is doing us all a favor but until 100% of devices are locked down by Apple flash isnt going away.

This is sort a an illustration of the differing philosophies between Microsoft and Apple. Microsoft would make sure Flash worked even to their own detriment, 2 hours battery life but pornhub.com works!. They are willing to support every half baked technology out there, even if it mean that inserting an SD card could destroy your OS. You want options? They will give you such an abundance of options that it is possible to make the tablet completely unstable. When Jobs says Microsoft has no tast he means Microsoft won't say "ur doing it wrong" even if they take heat.
posted by Ad hominem at 1:27 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

The official iPad 2 page is live, as are the features and tech specs pages (the latter oddly lacks any memory specs).
posted by filthy light thief at 1:30 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I missed the show... is there a video of the presentation I can watch somewhere?
posted by VikingSword at 1:35 PM on March 2, 2011

I missed the show... is there a video of the presentation I can watch somewhere?

I believe apple has a podcast for all their big announcements. They'll also post it on the front page of their site by tomorrow.
posted by device55 at 1:36 PM on March 2, 2011

the latter oddly lacks any memory specs

Apple has never been very forthcoming about the RAM in its iOS devices. This makes a certain amount of sense. It's not upgradeable, it doesn't vary across a given product line, and it's really more of an issue for developers. Users need to know about storage space because they control what gets stored on the device (e.g. music and movies), but users don't really control how much RAM a given program needs.

In any case, we'll know how much RAM it has on March 11 when iFixit opens one up. I suspect it will have 1GB to match the competition and to take fuller advantage of the faster processor.
posted by jedicus at 1:38 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

(the latter oddly lacks any memory specs).

This is not odd. Apple hasn't been giving that information for iDevices for some time.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:38 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Gizmodo is claiming it only has 256 MB of RAM.
posted by jessssse at 1:40 PM on March 2, 2011

Gizmodo is claiming it only has 256 MB of RAM.

Gizmodo is full of shit.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:44 PM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

I may be old fashioned but I liked it back when computers were real computers. Don't get me wrong! I don't mind a phone swinging both ways to be a computer some evenings, but I'll just never adjust to computers that aren't computers.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:44 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

"Gizmodo is clai...bzz shhhhzzzzzzhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"

Not interested in their claims, and I'll delete my hat app if they're right.
posted by panaceanot at 1:45 PM on March 2, 2011

Lifehacker: How to Live with the Minimal Amount of Storage Space on Your iOS Device
posted by Joe Beese at 1:45 PM on March 2, 2011

Would Skype video work on the new iPad?
posted by Dragonness at 1:46 PM on March 2, 2011

Would Skype video work on the new iPad?

Yes.
posted by entropicamericana at 1:47 PM on March 2, 2011

I love shiny new as much as the next guy. But I try to only buy when I feel the product is going to do what I want. And so I waited until G4 (the present) generation of iPod Touch to buy one. And until late 2009 to by the 27" iMac. I'm watching the iPad, but as of iPad 2, no cigar. I want retina display. More connectivity. Lighter. More out of iOS. That said, I'll go to an Apple store and put my buying resolve to the test come 03/11.
posted by VikingSword at 1:49 PM on March 2, 2011

I once bought an apple computer that tore open my flesh and feasted on the flickering flame of my soul inside. Apple is as close to Satanism as you're going to find in modern computing.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:49 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Oh yeah then how come Black Sabbath never wrote a song about Apple huh? THEORY DISPROVED!!!!111!
posted by arto at 1:51 PM on March 2, 2011

Argh. I thought I had more time to save for an iPad2. One of these things costs as much as two weeks of daycare or a full tank of fuel oil, so I can't justify just going out an buying one without scrimping and saving. After tax return, selling off some old electronics, and tossing a 20 into a piggy bank here and there for a few weeks I'm still not all the way there.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 1:55 PM on March 2, 2011

Are skype, sip, msn, and icq integrated with the built in dialer application? Ahh thought not.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:57 PM on March 2, 2011

Can anyone give me a sense of what it's like to actually try and get work done on this thing? My dream is to have something I can bring to the library and take notes on, but which is also capable of letting me finish my paper and print it once I get home.

In other words, does the iPad feel like it supports the writing process from start to finish?
posted by awenner at 1:57 PM on March 2, 2011

Apple is as close to Satanism as you're going to find in modern computing.

I once owned a Newton that hyperbole hyperbole hyperbole!

(I love this game)
posted by grubi at 2:00 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'd say an emphatic no awenner.

It's great for browsing (most of) the web, watching TV shows and films (mostly bought from iTunes) and playing games (bought from the App Store). You'll quickly get frustrated if you're trying to use it as a substitute for a laptop for word-processing.

It's entirely modal, and even tabs in the browser seem to be abstracted away. It's a sit back and consume device. There's a reason they bring out a sofa to show off these devices at keynotes.

I'm not saying you couldn't contort its functionality into serving your purposes... here's Andy Inhatko's rig for blogging the iPad 2 keynote, but in my experience, it's a great device to watch an episode of Mad Men in bed with, not to write a paper.

It's somewhat telling that it's the focus of Steve Jobs' energy towards the end of his career.
This isn't post-pc. It's post-sit-forward-in-a-chair-and-produce-content. (IMO)
posted by panaceanot at 2:08 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

does the iPad feel like it supports the writing process from start to finish?

No.

Although printing has been made easier, the lack of an external keyboard, a file management system, and - as far as I know - any word processing apps that support footnotes, means that you wouldn't be able to do a school paper start-to-finish on one.

But for taking notes in the library, it will rule majestically.
posted by Joe Beese at 2:10 PM on March 2, 2011

Sadly, I'm that breed of tech fans known as the not-particularly-early-adopter and the thing that's got my credit card buzzing in my wallet like an accidentally activated sex toy in a airline carry-on bag is the $349 price on refurb 1st gen iPads at the Apple store. For me, though, the fact that I already have a superbly functional netbook that'll run PD and an iPod Touch just kills my wanna wanna wanna exuberance. Dang.
posted by sonascope at 2:10 PM on March 2, 2011

btw. When I say "It's entirely modal", that could actually be a good thing for writing. Just a screen and a keyboard with no distractions. Unfortunately, ergonomics means that the on-screen keyboard doesn't cut it and if you need to be skipping between browser tabs or other documents for research/reference the modality is a hinderance.

As is the complete absence of a filing system unless you sync with iTunes (i*Tunes* to sync your files that aren't 'tunes'?).
posted by panaceanot at 2:13 PM on March 2, 2011

You'll want a full sized keyboard for note taking, grab yourself a 13' MacBook Air instead. If your dead set on an ipad for writing, you should check out the various hand writing recognition apps first, personally I never liked them, but check em' out.

I'll buy myself an ebook readers with stylus support for annotations soon. I'll hold off on the full tablet though until we get good android devices with mini-keyboards. We're currently expecting parallel Android and Debian on dual core Android devices. woot!

Or maybe I'll choose a MeeGo tablet with Myriad Alien Dalvik for games.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:14 PM on March 2, 2011

My dream is to have something I can bring to the library and take notes on, but which is also capable of letting me finish my paper and print it once I get home.

In other words, does the iPad feel like it supports the writing process from start to finish?

You'll want a Bluetooth keyboard or the plug-in keyboard dock. Even with a stand, typing on the thing for very long is just not workable.

As for printing, unless you have one of the few printers that officially support AirPrint, you'll need the free AirPrint Activator. It's easy to install and works perfectly.

Pages on the iPad is a fine word processing program for school papers, but only if you don't use footnotes. You could take notes in Pages or use one of the many note taking programs.

If footnotes are required...oof. One super-hacky solution is to use TeX Touch, write your paper in LaTeX, compile it on a remote computer, then print the result using AirPrint. If you don't already know what LaTeX is, this is not a solution for you.

Bear in mind the screen is 9.7", so if you're not comfortable working on a netbook-sized screen, this is not going to work for you.
posted by jedicus at 2:16 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

I already have a cell phone, a car stereo, an MP3 player, a digital camera, a bluetooth headset, 3D glasses, a GPS device, a fingerprint reader, a walkie talkie watch, a George Foreman grill, electronic cigarettes, a taser, a micro projector, a digital compass, a laptop, and a bunch of LEDs configured into the shape of a fern. Do I need an iPad?
posted by Brocktoon at 2:17 PM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

As is the complete absence of a filing system unless you sync with iTunes (i*Tunes* to sync your files that aren't 'tunes'?).

Strictly speaking iTunes isn't necessary for file management. There are 3rd party programs like iPhone Explorer that can be used to get files on and off the device.
posted by jedicus at 2:19 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I already have a cutlery drawer. Do I need an Apple Army Knife?
posted by panaceanot at 2:20 PM on March 2, 2011

Unless the issue is how incredibly stupid the 10 million people who bought one are.

As McDonald's serves approximately 27 million people per day, I would probably hesitate before using number of people as an intelligence indicator.
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:21 PM on March 2, 2011

As McDonald's serves approximately 27 million people per day,

Worse still, "To Serve Man" is a cookbook.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:22 PM on March 2, 2011

As McDonald's serves approximately 27 million people per day, I would probably hesitate before using number of people as an intelligence indicator.

I wasn't being rhetorical. If anyone wants to say that iPad adopters have been stupid, I have no interest in arguing with them.

I was only suggesting in my sly way that the vehemence of anti-iPad sentiment doesn't seem adequately explained by someone's personal lack of use for it.
posted by Joe Beese at 2:26 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Unless the issue is how incredibly stupid the 10 million people who bought one are.

I totally use that argument with the Jonas Brothers when my friends make fun of me and some junk.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:27 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Price difference between 16GB iPad and 32GB iPad: $100
Price of a 16GB SD card: $20
Number of SD slots on iPad: 0
posted by rocket88 at 2:32 PM on March 2, 2011

There are companies with entire buildings dedicated to the hundreds of IT employees whose purpose is to correct the eff-ups their employees make to the open and maleable PC's software deployed there.

The stability of Apple's "closed" system means I am JUST FINE with purchasing and enjoying a product that I can't completely rejigger if it also means never having to interact with a support employee trying to figure out exactly what I did to mess things up.
posted by apranica at 2:38 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Still cheaper than a Xoom, remarkably.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:39 PM on March 2, 2011

HP to RIM: Our iPad Challenger Is More Original Than Your iPad Challenger

Isn’t this ironic. Hewlett-Packard and Research in Motion, two companies that haven’t officially launched their first tablets yet, talking smack to one another the day before Apple debuts its second.
posted by Joe Beese at 2:40 PM on March 2, 2011

Though I don't doubt that most of that $100 is profit for Apple, the kind of flash they use inside the iPad is much faster and higher quality than what you get in a consumer SD card.
posted by Space Coyote at 2:41 PM on March 2, 2011

Yeah, I've been tempted by the Xoom, but $800 is too steep. Hopefully this will motivate Motorola to release the speculated $600 wifi only version at a competitive price.
posted by Pyry at 2:50 PM on March 2, 2011

Otherwise, $800? Yikes.

The one big reason why iPad rivals can't compete on price

I’ve heard a lot of reasons thrown around, from buying flash memory in bulk to Apple’s strength in supply chain management to the fact that Apple now has its own line of CPUs. However, nearly everyone seems to be missing the biggest and most obvious reason: The Apple Store.
posted by Joe Beese at 2:50 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

That's a really insightful read, Joe.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:55 PM on March 2, 2011

Has wireless. More space than a NOMAD. Not lame?
posted by blue_beetle at 2:58 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

The iPad 2 doesn't really blow the Xoom away, and you know that Apple will keep the price and specs the same for a year, while their competitors will not.
posted by smackfu at 3:01 PM on March 2, 2011

Yeah, Apple is going to own the tablet market for the same reason it owns the portable media player market: it got there first with a very polished product at a reasonable price, and all the competition got there late with less polished products while absolutely refusing to compete on price. HP/Moto/RIM/Samsung should be selling their first-gen tablets at huge losses if they want to get anything resembling market share, and predictably, they won't.
posted by mullingitover at 3:03 PM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

the kind of flash they use inside the iPad is much faster and higher quality than what you get in a consumer SD card.

Are you suggesting they use SLC Flash? Because I'd be very surprised if that was the case. It's likely MLC, which is going for about $9 for 8GBytes at the chip level.
posted by rocket88 at 3:06 PM on March 2, 2011

"Actually, comparing Apple and McDonald's isn't all that off base."

BS. It's not comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing hamburgers to computers. You might as well study people's car buying habits and equate them to how they buy their vegetables. They are going to be very different.
posted by Soupisgoodfood at 3:08 PM on March 2, 2011

The iPad 2 doesn't really blow the Xoom away...

Well, the original iPad already blew the Xoom away, because it has already grabbed market and mine share. Ask a random on the street what an iPad is and they'll be able to tell you. A Xoom though? Probably not.

In order to beat the iPad, somebody is going to have to make a product that hits it out of the ballpark right out of the gate, possibly before.. Xoom ain't it. The Playbook might have been it if they could have shipped something, but they're still working on it.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:10 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'd say the marketing is different, too.
posted by Soupisgoodfood at 3:11 PM on March 2, 2011

HP has something original that might be a hit if they price it a lot less than an iPad. But JB's article really explains why the others can't compete, because they don't have their own retail chains and have to give up more revenue on each sale through a third-party. To keep profits at the same level, they have to raise prices. And that's not even looking at the supply cost efficiencies that Apple has leveraged.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:16 PM on March 2, 2011

I think he was more talking about raw specs and capabilities rather than market share.

I know. I was pointing out that raw specs and capabilities don't seem to matter that much. Saying you have 1gb of RAM and blahblah processor might sound awesome to some, but not as awesome as "10 Hour battery". There's specs and then there's specs.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:16 PM on March 2, 2011

The Xoom has a 10 hour battery. Until you use Flash.
posted by narwhal bacon at 3:22 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

How much of a margin is Apple making on the iPad, if other companies can't keep up on price for devices with similar features? I always got the impression that Apple tended to have high margins on their iPods, computers, and iPhones, but now it looks like they're trying to beat their competitors on price.

I'm guessing this is probably about them wanting to secure the new market for this type of "post-PC" platform.
posted by mccarty.tim at 3:30 PM on March 2, 2011

the main thing that's holding me back from a tablet purchase is a lack of standardization on digital publishing... for me, the great promise is to have fully digital editions of magazines and newspapers automatically delivered to my device of choice, but so far it's looking like different tablets will have different content depending on agreements between the manufacturer in question and the content provider. I'm hoping that some sort of standardized digital publishing format (like epub?) can be settled on for ios/android/playbook that solves this problem.
posted by modernnomad at 3:33 PM on March 2, 2011

How much of a margin is Apple making on the iPad, if other companies can't keep up on price for devices with similar features?

From the article that Joe Beese linked to:

iSuppli estimates that the total production cost of the 16GB iPad Wi-Fi is $229.35, so when Apple sells it directly to customers for the retail price of $499 the company makes a whopping $270 of “profit” on each unit. This isn’t pure profit, obviously, since the company has additional overhead, but we’ll use the term profit for the purpose of this discussion.

[...] Conversely, iSuppli estimates that the Samsung Galaxy Tab has a total product cost of $214.57. Verizon Wireless was selling the Galaxy Tab for $600 with no contract (and thus, no subsidy) when the product was first launched last fall, which means Samsung was likely wholesaling it for around $300. So, Samsung was making about $85 per unit on the Galaxy Tab — much better than the 20 bucks Apple makes from retailers on its lowest priced iPad, but a far cry from the more healthy $270 Apple makes when it sells the iPad itself.

posted by Ian A.T. at 3:34 PM on March 2, 2011

The Xoom has a 10 hour battery. Until you use Flash.

Apparently, Flash support won't be out for a while, and the 4G upgrade requires sending it back to a factory repair depot. Cost and contract issues aside, if I was a Moto shareholder, I'd be pretty upset at this kind of product launch.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:34 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

I just read someone's analysis of why the iPad 2 "isn't worth it". Their thesis is that it's not worth it to upgrade from the iPad 1.

Here's the deal: the iPad 2 is not for existing iPad owners, whose device is still pretty good. It's to make sure that Apple has a fresh dual-core product selling at the same time as all those Android tablets.

Again, I think people really misinterpret why Apple released this product. This isn't a real upgrade like finally putting i5 processors & Sandy Bridge in the Macbook Pros. It's a reactionary move, which is very unusual for Apple. I mean, when was the last time Apple put a competitor's logo on their keynote slides?
posted by GuyZero at 3:35 PM on March 2, 2011

if I was a Moto shareholder, I'd be pretty upset at this kind of product launch.

I think the Xoom is fundamentally a very good device and is a competitor for the iPad 2 on equal footing.

But yes, Moto's marketing stinks like shit in the sun. The endless pre-announcements, the post-facto upgrades for SD & 4G... ugh.
posted by GuyZero at 3:36 PM on March 2, 2011

I think the Xoom is fundamentally a very good device and is a competitor for the iPad 2 on equal footing.

In at least one respect.
posted by Joe Beese at 3:45 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Again, I think people really misinterpret why Apple released this product. This isn't a real upgrade like finally putting i5 processors & Sandy Bridge in the Macbook Pros. It's a reactionary move, which is very unusual for Apple. I mean, when was the last time Apple put a competitor's logo on their keynote slides?

I agree that this isn't a real upgrade; it's more of an evolutionary one. Apple added just enough features to keep parity with the iPhone and iPod Touch, as well as competing tablets. I suspect there are more things they could add that they're holding back on, like stereo sound and overall storage. I'm not sure that reactionary moves are totally foreign to Apple, but perhaps they didn't have a very big lead in the tablet market to begin with.
posted by ZeusHumms at 3:47 PM on March 2, 2011

But yes, Moto's marketing stinks like shit in the sun. The endless pre-announcements, the post-facto upgrades for SD & 4G... ugh.

Typical manufacturer behavior.
posted by ZeusHumms at 3:49 PM on March 2, 2011

In at least one respect.

Heh.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:51 PM on March 2, 2011

I think the Xoom is fundamentally a very good device and is a competitor for the iPad 2 on equal footing.

The equal footing part doesn't make sense to me, as Xoom is coming out a almost a year and 15 million iPad purchases later. The iPad has a distinct and popular ecosystem that comes with it, while the Xoom has nothing like similar. It may be more powerful, in a technical sense, but this tablet markets isn't being defined strictly by raw power these days. Unequal footing is the watchword, IMO.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:52 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Well the initial Android phones came after however-many million iPhones got sold and proceeded to both catch up and surpass those numbers. it's absolutely true that tablet-Android is late to the game, but the OS & one device have only been available to consumers for less than a week so it's not exactly an apples-to-apples (ha ha) comparison.

So yes, Android's tablet ecosystem isn't yet on par with the iPad's. But the device itself is at least on par, if not better in some respects. And I expect the android-tablet ecosystem will go very far, very fast over the coming months.

Also, that Moto uses Flash extensively on their site when their tablet doesn't support it yet... *sigh*. Like I said, I think they're brilliant hardware designers whose design skills manage to overcome marketing that couldn't sell beer at a baseball game.
posted by GuyZero at 4:03 PM on March 2, 2011

The iPad has a distinct and popular ecosystem that comes with it, while the Xoom has nothing like similar.

Android was never made for tablets, and so Honeycomb is a v1 release in that regard. As WSJ's Walt Mossberg notes about 3:40 into his Xoom review, there are very few third-party tablet apps for Android. There will be more, of course, but out-of-the-box there is a lot more functionality available to the iPad audience, and that will be the case for quite some time, due the headstart that Apple has in this space.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:03 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

The original iPhone came out in late '07 and the Nexus S came out in late '10 so it took 3 years for Android phones to meet the iPhone in terms of device capability as well as app breadth. (I for one much prefer cloud sync to iTunes sync, so IMO Android was better from day 1, but I'll admit that this is hardly the sole use case).

I will go out on a crazy limb and say it will not take 3 years for Android tablets to match their iPad counterparts in terms of apps, more or less.

On the more or less, there will always be real stellar apps that only appear on one of the platforms. I would love to see an Android equivalent of the new iPad Garage Band, but I'm not holding my breath. And after 4 years and several devices, there still isn't a maps app on the iphone that is half as good as Android's Maps, IMO.
posted by GuyZero at 4:11 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

It may be more powerful, in a technical sense, but this tablet markets isn't being defined strictly by raw power these days.

Gather around, children, and I'll tell you a story about two things we called "VHS" and "Beta"...

Superior technology doesn't always settle the issue.

But if it matters, Apple is the one who has it.

I'm sure Motorola is doing the best it can. But it seems clear to me that no other technology company on earth is currently performing on Apple's level.

It's like there's Pixar* and then there's All The Other Ones.

* Mr. Jobs had some involvement with that company, as I recall.
posted by Joe Beese at 4:13 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Is it true the Xoom requires 5 GB free to install anything, because if so, holy lol.
posted by entropicamericana at 4:21 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Is it true the Xoom requires 5 GB free to install anything, because if so, holy lol.

What does this even mean? You don't even need to own a computer of any sort to install software on the Xoom. You mean you have to have 5 GB free space on the device? Doubtful considering all my Android phones let me install software to the point where the poor phone can barely make a call.
posted by GuyZero at 4:23 PM on March 2, 2011

I guess it is.
posted by entropicamericana at 4:24 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

Apple creates a great user experience. Unparalleled for such widely used products, really.

I'm not going to lie: I honestly get frustrated by other products sometimes, like certain remote controls or ticket-selling kiosks. I can only imagine how much more intuitive the objects and pieces of technology we use everyday would be if companies had the same attention to detail and appreciation of and dedication to good design that Apple has.

I'm glad I held out for iPad 2. It seems like the right time to buy one, at least for me. I'm pretty psyched about messing around with the $5 Garageband app — then, in the not-so-distant future, a $15(?) music creation app some enterprising, independent developer creates that's even better. Well, at least that's what I'm hoping for...
posted by defenestration at 4:34 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

Anyone know if the Amazon price for the old version is coming down? I could save big on tax buying through them instead of Apple.
posted by CunningLinguist at 4:38 PM on March 2, 2011

I don't think Apple ever sells refurbs or old stock through channels, except maybe Woot once in a blue moon.
posted by GuyZero at 4:39 PM on March 2, 2011

As several iPad 1 owners have already stated, I don't see any compelling reasons to upgrade to version 2. I don't need a camera or a gyroscope or Garage Band; I was hoping for a better screen like the one the iPhone 4 has, and a version with more storage space. So I'll wait until version 3. But it sure looks good!
posted by Quiplash at 4:57 PM on March 2, 2011

This was a particularly bad case though. iPad came out, button did one thing. Software update months later changed it to something else. Now new software allows you to pick which one is best for you. It didn't really seem to be well planned at all.

No, it was idiotic. Purportedly about making the switch do the same across iOS, even though they're different switches and iPads didn't need it (holding down-volume mutes). There was zero demand for it before the change, and to me it really just smacks of a pet change demanded by an exec*. Must have been someone pretty senior for them to turn it into a preference instead of just scrapping it when the users revolted.

* See also the keyboard shortcut for logging out of OS X. An exec demanded it be set system-wide as Shift-Apple-Q for 10.0, and the engineers fought back since you really don't want a key command that automatically kills all your running apps and logs you out. But I see it's arrived in 10.6. These guys really play the long game with this shit.
posted by bonaldi at 5:03 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

in the not-so-distant future, a $15(?) music creation app some enterprising, independent developer creates that's even better. Well, at least that's what I'm hoping for...

No need to wait, there's already some amazing stuff out there. The ReacTable app, full recreations of the classic Korg Electribe drum machine and MS-20 synth, the Moog Filtatron is remarkably deep, and I'm sure there's tons more. The thing that has me most excited to try though is Konkreet Performer; watching the videos feels like I'm witnessing the future of live electronic performance.
posted by naju at 5:14 PM on March 2, 2011 [4 favorites]

OK, a question for folks who talk about the rise of android phones.

Apple sells just about as many ipod touches as it does iphones.

How many android equivalents of the ipod touch are there? How many are sold? Any thoughts on what makes the difference here?

And, of course, is the tablet more like a phone or an ipod?

My opinion is offensive (in as much as it will offend) but for what it's worth: I think the ratio of ipod touches to PDA androids sold represents what consumers want. The ratio of iphones to android phones represents what cellular providers want.

Furthermore I think the market for tablets is not going to be primarily subsidized 3G devices. With android pushing hotspot for a while and now Apple joining in, how many people really want to pay monthly for more 3G for their tablet?
posted by Wood at 5:16 PM on March 2, 2011

me: in the not-so-distant future, a $15(?) music creation app some enterprising, independent developer creates that's even better. Well, at least that's what I'm hoping for...

naju: No need to wait, there's already some amazing stuff out there. The ReacTable app, full recreations of the classic Korg Electribe drum machine and MS-20 synth, the Moog Filtatron is remarkably deep, and I'm sure there's tons more. The thing that has me most excited to try though is Konkreet Performer; watching the videos feels like I'm witnessing the future of live electronic performance.


I haven't been paying attention really because I don't own an iPad. Now I'm looking forward to playing with all of the above. Thanks, naju!
posted by defenestration at 5:20 PM on March 2, 2011

How many android equivalents of the ipod touch are there? How many are sold? Any thoughts on what makes the difference here?

Are there android equivalents of the iPT? I bought the IPT4G, because I didn't want to be stuck with a 2-year contract to some provider. I just wanted most of the functionality of the iPhone without the sticker shock. Down the line, I may get the iPhone, but that'll depend on what happens with Verizon and what the iPhone 5 has - this won't be until next year for me. As is right now, the iPT4G does what I want - there are plenty of Starbucks and other free WiFi spots, so I'm not desperate to get an iPhone. None of this has anything to do with android for the simple reason that I have not seen a contract-free competitor in the same small form factor - when that happens, I'll take a look at it.
posted by VikingSword at 5:41 PM on March 2, 2011

The thing that has me most excited to try though is Konkreet Performer ; watching the videos feels like I'm witnessing the future of live electronic performance.

Technologically, this is an incredible time to be alive.

It's better than flying cars in my opinion.
posted by Joe Beese at 5:52 PM on March 2, 2011 [3 favorites]

Burhanistan: “Say what one will about Android and Galaxy tabs, but it's really nice to be able to see just about every webpage that I can access on a regular computer. It's nice to have a little Al Jazeera English livestreaming 7" right here.”

Actually, I should say that I couldn't watch AJE at work when all the stuff in Egypt first went down (don't have RealMedia, don't have admin permissions, slow XP machine, etc) and yet I did watch it on my iPad propped on my desk, via the handy Al-Jazeera English live streaming app.
posted by koeselitz at 6:33 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

The iPad is cool as a media consumption device, but what I really want is an Apple touchscreen tablet that's a production computer, ie. running OSX rather than iOS. I've seen so many cool apps for the iPad that use the touchscreen, but I don't want to buy a tablet just to use them. The higher specs of a laptop combined with a touchscreen would allow for some very cool music and video production fun. When is something like that going to come out?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 6:37 PM on March 2, 2011

"the post-PC products"

No thanks. I'd rather have a personal computer, capable of running whatever software *I* choose, regardless of whether it undercuts someone else's business model.

(As a great man once said, "Rip. Mix. Burn.")

They even make these wonderful, full-sized ergonomic keyboards for them, capable of speeds in excess of 120 wpm, multiple large monitors, and a customized desktop, capable of holding stacks of paper, books, large mugs of tea, and the occasional snack from the kitchen.
posted by markkraft at 6:51 PM on March 2, 2011 [1 favorite]

The iPad is cool as a media consumption device, but what I really want is an Apple touchscreen tablet that's a production computer

I get that desire, but at the end of the day what I think a lot of people overlook is the fact that fundamentally, tablets don't make for good 'production computers'.

They're best suited as media consumption devices.

You can shoehorn a full computer in there, and no doubt Apple has OSX running on a tablet in its offices. But there's a reason those tablets stay in the offices and don't make it to the shelves - they're just not that great.
posted by tgrundke at 7:54 PM on March 2, 2011

But man, that thing is dated in the face of the iPad.

Yeah, and I'd want OSX to be configured for the touchscreen.

what I think a lot of people overlook is the fact that fundamentally, tablets don't make for good 'production computers'.

Why not?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 8:02 PM on March 2, 2011

Touching things with your plain fingers is not a particularly accurate input method: compare painting with your fingers vs. a brush, or laptop touch-pads vs. mice. Production software tends to be characterized by a need for accurate clicking, and by heavy keyboard use (either through shortcuts, or by straight typing), both of which are weak points for pure touch-screen tablets.

Pen interfaces are potentially better than mice in terms of accuracy and ease of use, and good handwriting recognition could mitigate the lack of a keyboard, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much interest in them at the moment.
posted by Pyry at 8:26 PM on March 2, 2011

As several iPad 1 owners have already stated, I don't see any compelling reasons to upgrade to version 2. I don't need a camera or a gyroscope or Garage Band

GarageBand runs on iPad 1. Better than you think, too.
posted by secret about box at 8:37 PM on March 2, 2011 [2 favorites]

finally a computer for the rest of them
posted by 3mendo at 11:54 PM on March 2, 2011

iSuppli estimates that the total production cost of the 16GB iPad Wi-Fi is $229.35, so when Apple sells it directly to customers for the retail price of $499 the company makes a whopping $270 of “profit” on each unit. This isn’t pure profit, obviously, since the company has additional overhead, but we’ll use the term profit for the purpose of this discussion.

[...] Conversely, iSuppli estimates that the Samsung Galaxy Tab has a total product cost of $214.57. Verizon Wireless was selling the Galaxy Tab for $600 with no contract (and thus, no subsidy) when the product was first launched last fall, which means Samsung was likely wholesaling it for around $300. So, Samsung was making about $85 per unit on the Galaxy Tab — much better than the 20 bucks Apple makes from retailers on its lowest priced iPad, but a far cry from the more healthy $270 Apple makes when it sells the iPad itself.

Basically, they cost about as much to make as a low-end netbook (assuming low margins on netbooks), but they retail for insane prices. They're pretty much luxury items for people with too much money.
posted by delmoi at 2:30 AM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

I perceive them as having more value than a netbook, hence the willingness to pay that higher price.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:50 AM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

I find the applause patterns interesting but odd in these presentations. When the speaker takes the stage, of course, applause is to be expected - and in this case, since it was Steve Jobs and everyone wants him to be well and active, it's to be expected that this is unusually powerful applause. After that, though, it's hard to judge. The A5 processor got no applause, and it didn't seem like it was planned to. When Jobs announced that the iPad 2 was 33% thinner, there was a pause, and then I guess the audience realised that the pause was for expected applause, and it spun up. When the joke came in about it coming in white straight out of the door, everyone's on that. I might try to graph that if I get a chance...
posted by DNye at 4:44 AM on March 3, 2011

DNye, this vid should help with your applause research.

The applause for the white, I think, was for the tacit admission that they totally fucked up on the iPhone 4 white announcement.
posted by cavalier at 5:37 AM on March 3, 2011

That was clearly the joke, yes, cavalier - although it's odd to see journalists applauding like that at a product launch - not just when a new speaker is introduced, but at the announcement of a feature or a sales figure, or in this case a humorous callback.

The link you provided is to this page, incidentally, but the video is available on iTunes here.
posted by DNye at 5:52 AM on March 3, 2011

Son of a -- this vid was what I swore I posted. It is snarky and brilliant and witty commentary on the event!

Forcing the joke makes it work better!! Right!?!?
posted by cavalier at 6:06 AM on March 3, 2011

Basically, they cost about as much to make as a low-end netbook (assuming low margins on netbooks), but they retail for insane prices. They're pretty much luxury items for people with too much money.

iSuppli only counts the cost of the parts alone, not the cost of assembly, so bear that in mind. There's also the amortized cost of the software research & development that goes into iOS. And the industrial design folks don't work for free, either, I suspect. But yet, it's undeniable that Apple operates a fairly high margin business.
posted by jedicus at 6:28 AM on March 3, 2011 [3 favorites]

they cost about as much to make as a low-end netbook

And how much do you think you can resell that netbook for one or two years later? If I sell my iPad, I'm sure to get a fair amount of my money back (i.e., more than 50%). Value is more than the cost of parts.
posted by grubi at 6:51 AM on March 3, 2011

I think this second iteration is going to leave many of the iPad’s competitors in a bad way. It’s like Sub-Zero in Mortal Kombat just dealt you a cold blast that freezes the iPad competitors solid — one of two things will happen when they unfreeze, there will be a bloody announcer saying “Finish Him…”, or Apple will come back at them with a swift roundhouse sealing their fate.
posted by Joe Beese at 7:33 AM on March 3, 2011

It’s safe to say that most of the competitors are going with the 7” form factors

Well, except for Motorola, and Samsung, and HP. Otherwise, though...

I mean, I'm happy that he's excited, and he's almost certainly right that lots of people are going to buy the iPad 2, but what was it about this that you particularly thought was useful, Joe? Or did you just like the metaphor? Because I'm not sure what those two metaphorical endings are supposed to represent...
posted by DNye at 11:03 AM on March 3, 2011

Seth Weintraub: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth
posted by GuyZero at 12:18 PM on March 3, 2011

Eh, everyone knows to just roll their eyes when Apple spits out one of those statements that is dubious. Even if someone called them on it, they would just get handwavey and talk about the big picture.
posted by smackfu at 12:42 PM on March 3, 2011

Seth Weintraub: Steve Jobs' reality distortion takes its toll on truth

Wow, he sounded small and tedious, almost the perfect example of the whining internets.

"But, but, the Dell Streak has a dual core processor and was out in January, so how can Jobs claim that iPad2 will be the first tablet shipping in volume with a dual core processor?! Why is he lying?!"

Sheesh.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:59 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Forbes blogger claims the new iPad has 512MB memory
posted by litnerd at 1:02 PM on March 3, 2011

You have to admire the chutzpah to put a bullet like that on the slide. Apple's competitor's should do more of that.
posted by smackfu at 1:02 PM on March 3, 2011

"Dubious statement" is one way to describe it. Another way would be to say that he's flat-out lying to the press about the state of the industry, knowing that more people will hear and repeat the lie than any correction of the lie. And that apparently objecting to the lie is "small and tedious, almost the perfect example of the whining internets".
posted by kafziel at 1:06 PM on March 3, 2011

"But, but, the Dell Streak has a dual core processor and was out in January, so how can Jobs claim that iPad2 will be the first tablet shipping in volume with a dual core processor?! Why is he lying?!"

Let's compare that with what he actually said.

"First dual core tablet to ship in volume." That's funny, I tested a Dell (DELL) Streak 7, which had a dual core Nvidia Tegra 2 chip in January. They've been shipping ever since on T-Mobile.

No stammer at the beginning, no interrobang at the end. Amazing how these things creep in.
posted by DNye at 1:08 PM on March 3, 2011

Define "in volume". I'm betting Jobs doesn't think the whatever number the Streak has sold really counts as many, i.e. volume.

The point is, hard facts sometimes matter and sometimes they don't, Jobs and Co know it and play it for all it's worth. Getting caught up in the numbers game doesn't really matter in this instance.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:09 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

That doesn't explain why you made him stammer, though, now, does it? And one can't really do that about the Samsung quote, which is a straight mistranscription.

Not that this really matters - the iPad is a luxury product, and as such is as impervious to technical teardowns and evaluations as any other luxury product - they're amusing, but very few people are going to boycott the iPad 2 because it doesn't have as much RAM as they want. I just find it a bit odd how personally people seem to take others adopting the "wrong" position.
posted by DNye at 1:17 PM on March 3, 2011

The real question is why someone who can do no wrong in the eyes of most of the press feel the need to tell half-truths and make highly qualified statements?

"First dual core (if you don't count the others)"

"More apps than the competitor (which has been out for 6 days)"

"Sales have been small (if you can't traslate Korean properly)"

Seriously. If there's one thing Steve Jobs has not been historically, it's mealy-mouthed. These are pretty mealy-mouthed statements.
posted by GuyZero at 1:26 PM on March 3, 2011

Getting caught up in the numbers game doesn't really matter in this instance.

And yet Jobs quoted several numbers very clearly. So does it matter or not?
posted by GuyZero at 1:27 PM on March 3, 2011

The stammer was for humor, that's exactly how the writer sounds to me, desperate to make a point he think matters, when it's quite small.

As to the numbers, I said the don't matter in that instance and they don't. If your biggest compliant is that Jobs wasn't factually wrong about the dual core proccessor stuff, I think you're missing the larger picture.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:42 PM on March 3, 2011

The stammer was for humor, that's exactly how the writer sounds to me, desperate to make a point he think matters, when it's quite small.


So, what you're saying, then, is "Whaa! Whaa! People are being mean about my favourite consumer electronics company! Whaa! Why are they so mean!?!? Listen to me! Not him! He's a poopy-head!"

Seriously, that kind of approach doesn't elevate the discourse at all.
posted by DNye at 1:52 PM on March 3, 2011

As to the numbers, I said the don't matter in that instance and they don't.

if they don't matter, why does he quote them?
posted by GuyZero at 1:55 PM on March 3, 2011

As another number, if anything else, Steve Jobs is 100% correct that the competitors to the iPad are largely copycats who will spend the rest of 2011 and probably most of 2012 playing catch-up with the iPad 2 in design and specifications, and the iTunes App Store in application offerings.

As they are now, I'll bet they'll still be behind on price in 2012, unless they make a Microsoft-like short-term commitment to lose money to gain share.

Once the others have finished copying their way to where the iPad 2 is now, Apple will have released the iPad 3 — and perhaps even an iPad Mini at an even lower price point.

Since Jobs came back, it's been a great decade for Apple users — and for computer users everywhere, who have benefitted immensely from the innovations that Apple developed and the others have copied.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:02 PM on March 3, 2011

And the backlash continues: Chris Taylor: What Apple hopes you didn't notice about iPad 2

In a device that's supposed to be about effortless connecting, and a world that is moving to cloud syncing, this is an increasingly clunky throwback.

Could it be because its memory is exactly the same as the original iPad -- 256 megabytes? That would look embarrassingly paltry next to iPad competitors such as the Motorola Xoom or the HP Touchpad, which both boast 1 gigabyte of RAM.

In all the hoopla, it's easy to forget that many features announced for iPad 2 were expected -- and were technically possible -- in iPad 1. It was widely remarked at the time that Apple was deliberately holding back built-in cameras, for one, so that the iPad 2 could launch with a larger splash.

And don't get me wrong - yes, the iPad will continue to be the tablet of 2011. But the iPad 2 launch was still decidedly reactive and the device is the bare minimum needed to keep the product line in that position. I suppose, in retrospect, the same could have been said about the iPhone 3G vs the original iPhone.
posted by GuyZero at 2:09 PM on March 3, 2011

If the iPad 2 ships with a copy of safari that doesn't reload your page every time you swap between windows then I am IN.

Seriously, what's up with that? Does it shit anyone else off?
posted by AzzaMcKazza at 2:10 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

The reviews keep pouring in: Apple iPad 2 is here and tablet rivals need to hit the drawing board

That’s great. The processor, particularly, makes a huge impact. I activated the Photo Booth app and discovered that the iPad 2 was peppy enough to maintain nine different live video previews, each applying a different filter or warping effect, and update them all in real time at full video frame rate.

But you kind of have to hold the iPad 2 to really get the redesign. It’s thinner by a third, plus its edges taper to a thin line of metal. It’s almost inconceivable that this thing you’re holding is a multicore tablet computer. The Xoom tablet is trim, light, and very pretty ... but when you place it next to the iPad 2, it looks as though it was designed and built by angry Soviet prison labor instead of by Motorola...

Now, all of these companies have the iPad 2 to deal with. And oh, goatspit: the price of every iPad 2 is the same as its predecessor ... including the $499 16 gig WiFi-only model. I wouldn’t be shocked if some high-profile manufacturers take full advantage of the fact that they never actually promised a ship date for their Android tablets.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:16 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

If the iPad 2 ships with a copy of safari that doesn't reload your page every time you swap between windows then I am IN.

Seriously, what's up with that? Does it shit anyone else off?

That makes for all kinds of fun trying to do a comment or link with multiple links from the iPhone. I think it's a memory thing.

Seriously, I do not know what the deal is with the miserly memory.
posted by Artw at 2:20 PM on March 3, 2011

Apple = the Empire, Steve Jobs = Darth Vadar, iPad = Death Star. Why can no one see this apart from me? The alternative system is called Android, as in droid, as in R2D2 and C3PO. Come ON!
posted by Summer at 2:41 PM on March 3, 2011

While Apple has technically offered multitasking since iOS 4.0, it's multitasking with a major asterisk. Apple's form of multitasking is basically just task-switching and a limited amount of background processing. Android Honeycomb tablets, on the other hand, have full-fledged multitasking support. And using it is as easy as tapping an icon in the lower-left corner of the screen; that brings up a box with your most recently used programs, any of which can be opened from anywhere in the system.

For all the talk about clarity of phrasing, I never quite understood this objection. You tap the home button and you can switch to another app, which is in the state right where you left it. The app developer can program in background processing, if it is needed, and the phone schedules resources to it. This is multitasking in every reasonable sense.

Having the developer have to consciously make a decision about what runs and what is suspended while in the background helps maximize the device's performance and battery life, which seems smarter and more beneficial to the end user, than Android just having everything running simultaneously, whether a process needs to or not, pointlessly sucking away CPU cycles and battery charge.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:50 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

I find it amusing when multitasking is mentioned as a big upside of iOS over WP7, when they actually handle task switching in pretty much the same way.
posted by Artw at 2:57 PM on March 3, 2011

So what I'm hearing is that the ipad 2 is the greatest tablet and nobody will be able to come close for years, amirite?
posted by benzenedream at 2:58 PM on March 3, 2011

Well, from conversations with people who've used one so far... it's nice, definitely. Feels good in the hand, very zippy, very pretty. I've always preferred the eMate 300 to the MacBook Air, aesthetically, so that probably wouldn't be such a selling point for me... but if, e.g. you regularly spend time away from a loved one who has FaceTime, the front facing camera seems like it could be a really nice thing to have over the iPad 1.

Although it's a shame that it won't be 4G, or by the looks of it be adaptable for 4G, the way some of the other tablet makers are talking about having replaceable antennas - obviously that is easier if you don't have the gorgeous, seamless design as a primary concern. If you're going to replace it with an iPad 3 anyway that's probably not an issue, but if your technology churn is a bit slower it may be a consideration.
posted by DNye at 3:41 PM on March 3, 2011

So, what you're saying, then, is "Whaa! Whaa! People are being mean about my favourite consumer electronics company! Whaa! Why are they so mean!?!? Listen to me! Not him! He's a poopy-head!"

Not at all. What am I saying is that if you're trying to critique the market leader of a product, do it with information that matters, instead of writing a whining article on the web that really doesn't do anything. Technically, was Jobs wrong? Sure. Does it matter? Not in the slightest. Not at all.

I'm fine with criticism of Apple or the iPad or iOS, because they're not perfect products at all. They're good, but not beyond criticism. What I can't stand and see no point in is petty criticism. The complaint here was that Jobs said hedged comment about when the first dual core tablet processor shipped?! Are you kidding me?! That doesn't matter one bit in an of itself. What happens is winning and bitching about such a minor detail tells me the writer isn't really thinking that hard.

me: As to the numbers, I said the don't matter in that instance and they don't.

Guy Zero: if they don't matter, why does he quote them?

Good point, Apple and Jobs are certainly fine quoting some numbers, i.e. 15 million iPads sold in a month, dual core processor etc, etc. So yeah, numbers do matter, but not every number matters. It's a small distinction, but an important one. Sure, the iphone 4 had 5 megapixel camera, while some Android phones had 8megapixels, which meant the 8 megapixel was better, right? Turns it no. That 5 megapixel camera ranked higher than the 8 in several categories, because of other aspects related to taking pictures.

And the backlash continues: Chris Taylor: What Apple hopes you didn't notice about iPad 2

Yeah, not really getting the whole "backlash" meme you're pushing here. It would help if you didn't link to such crappy articles, which mentions stuff like this:

But there is another kind of memory that we know is exactly the same on iPad 2: storage space. The Apple tablet still maxes out at 64 gigabytes. Sure, the competition isn't beating that yet. But given the standard pace of technological improvement, one would expect a 128-gigabyte hard drive by now. Could tablet design have reached some kind of inherent size limit?

Riiiight, so the storage space is exactly the same as the original iPad, yet somehow that's a negative, despite the fact that competition isn't beating them on that. Please, for the love of God, find some decent criticism instead of linking to schlock written for page views. You don't have like a thing Apple produces or Job says, but please, I beg you, link to some intelligent criticism.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:46 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I *think* the Atomic browser doesn't reload tabs like that.

I haven't used an iOS device in a while, so I'm curious... Can you set an alternative browser as the default in iOS... or will links from emails or chats always open the stock browser?
posted by SAC at 3:54 PM on March 3, 2011

No, even with an alt browser, links still open in Safari.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:57 PM on March 3, 2011

You don't have like a thing Apple produces or Job says, but please, I beg you, link to some intelligent criticism.

So I should hope that even the most rabid partisan - not that that's Brandon or Blazecock or anyone in particular - can read my comments to see that I really don't have a beef with the iPad but that I think there's been a change in tone in how Apple positions themselves which is interesting in itself.

But just because some commentators make a couple stupid points doesn't render their non-stupid points invalid. If the original iPad launch was the young Elvis, this time around it was Las Vegas Elvis.

So yeah, numbers do matter, but not every number matters. It's a small distinction, but an important one.

Well I think you're moving into tautology territory here. He quotes the numbers that matter and ignores the ones that don't?

Having the developer have to consciously make a decision about what runs and what is suspended while in the background helps maximize the device's performance and battery life, which seems smarter and more beneficial to the end user, than Android just having everything running simultaneously, whether a process needs to or not, pointlessly sucking away CPU cycles and battery charge.

I've written (toy) Android apps, including one that wouldn't be allowed on the ipad - it collects data from a bluetooth heart rate monitor in the background while other apps run. What you're describing is not how Android apps work. For the vast majority of apps, the multitask exactly the same way iOS apps do, by serializing their state to memory and exiting on an app switch. it's slightly more complex in some cases as the device may decide to keep a couple apps in memory if there's memory available, but the app lifecycle is defined in such a way that you should expect your app to be shut down gracefully as soon as the user switches focus.
posted by GuyZero at 4:20 PM on March 3, 2011

Not at all. What am I saying is that if you're trying to critique the market leader of a product, do it with information that matters, instead of writing a whining article on the web that really doesn't do anything. Technically, was Jobs wrong? Sure. Does it matter? Not in the slightest. Not at all.

In case you're not getting it here, the point is not content, but tone. We all have our passions, of course, and might feel more protective of them than others. However, making up an imaginary "whiny" voice and stammering monologue in your head and then sharing it with the class is a really retrograde way to go about even being dogmatic. Is all I'm saying.
posted by DNye at 4:26 PM on March 3, 2011

But just because some commentators make a couple stupid points doesn't render their non-stupid points invalid.

The article you linked to didn't mention any non-stupid points.

Well I think you're moving into tautology territory here. He quotes the numbers that matter and ignores the ones that don't?

No, the article didn't mention any important numbers. The writer mentioned and linked a review of the Dell Streak, which said it was good, but not good enough. What the hell kinda argument is that, "oh Jobs was wrong the iPad2 being the first dual core tablet, here's this shitty tablet that shipped with one!" Well, so what? Technically true, but in the end, really doesn't matter.

However, making up an imaginary "whiny" voice and stammering monologue in your head and then sharing it with the class is a really retrograde way to go about even being dogmatic. Is all I'm saying.

This is what I wrote, it's not a stammering monologue, though certainly a whiny one, because that's exactly how I see it and portrayed it as such. If you have a problem with what I admitted was for humorous effect, then that's exactly what it is, your problem.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:59 PM on March 3, 2011 [2 favorites]

However, making up an imaginary "whiny" voice and stammering monologue in your head and then sharing it with the class is a really retrograde way to go about even being dogmatic.

I read the link and came away thinking "whiny" as well, fwiw, so it's not entirely imaginary. Jobs beings Jobs "destroys" the keynote? Please. Apple and Jobs have always cooked the numbers and trash-talked the competition, from C:/NGRTLTNS.W95 through snails on Pentiums, the world's first "weapons-class computer", the dancing Intel staff being set alight, "Redmond start your photocopiers" and now onto this. Even the fudging of facts is nothing new, from Photoshop speed trials to some astoundingly left-field specs when the PowerBook G4 was gasping to keep up.

It only died down in the past few years because nobody was managing to get close to the iPod and bashing Microsoft became unseemly as it thrashed and failed around. Now they have competition they're back in business. I'm surprised it's as genteel as it is.
posted by bonaldi at 5:15 PM on March 3, 2011

Reactive? It's not reactive. It's a big step forward, at least in the engineering sense - it's 33% thinner. It's thinner than the iPhone 4, for Steve's sake. It's quite a bit lighter. And the smart cover is genius.
That and the gyro and the cameras, the multi-core CPU with vastly improved graphics... what more do you want? Of course the iPad 2 is not revolutionary. Maybe the iPad 5 or 6 will be. But reactionary? Come on.
posted by Baldons at 5:46 PM on March 3, 2011

/shrugs.

It's the iPhone 3GS of iPads - nobody is going to feel the need to have to upgrade to it, but over time the iPad 1 will start getting slower and clunkier by comparison as Apps and iOS updates take advantage of the capabilities of the new pad, until eventually the iPad 3 (or whatever) gets released.
posted by Artw at 5:54 PM on March 3, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh hey, while we're all still here, does anyone know of a more ergo friendly bluetooth keyboard then the Microsoft 6000 thingy? This guy here.

I know someone's going to say "DUDE! Apple Wireless Keyboard! wtf you thinking?" And I'm going to say "URK! Cav Fingers Dainty! Cav Not Like Type 130wpm on Sleek Block Letter Keyboard! Cav need clicky typy curvy!" And then theyr'e going to be like "Caveman? Really dude?"

(whistles while making next Friday's shopping list)
posted by cavalier at 6:25 PM on March 3, 2011

cavalier: “Oh hey, while we're all still here, does anyone know of a more ergo friendly bluetooth keyboard then the Microsoft 6000 thingy? This guy here.”

The Happy Hacking Lite 2. Seriously, much, much better, I've found; the funny thing I discovered is that curvy keyboards don't actually help your hands all that much ergonomically. Very small keyboards help more. I play piano and also code all day, so this is important to me; I've really noticed it's helped a lot. It's very, very small; smaller than you'd expect. And you have to get used to the Fn-combinations to do the F1-F10 keys. But I find it's amazingly quick and easy to use, and much better for me ergonomically.
posted by koeselitz at 6:35 PM on March 3, 2011

(And it's awesomely clicky.)
posted by koeselitz at 6:36 PM on March 3, 2011

Oo! It sounds really cool, but it needs to be bluetooth for this. :(

Still going on the list, though!
posted by cavalier at 6:38 PM on March 3, 2011

I'm good with "stammering monologue", Brandon. You had your character - the Seth Weintraub in your head - stammer at the beginning of a speech you wrote for him. Stammering monologue. I was attempting to explain that this particular form of argument - making up a statement that a third party did not make, seeking to make them sound stupid, and then putting it in quote marks - is alienating rhetoric. For example:

"oh Jobs was wrong (sc. about) the iPad2 being the first dual core tablet, here's this shitty tablet that shipped with one!"

Admittedly I was wrong about the interrobangs: I thought the interrobangs were intended to make Weintraub look histrionic, but you use them in your own discourse, so I guess not.

However, I realise now that I have mispitched this. This is not a situation where we are seeking to use discussion to interact. This is about protecting a dear friend from calumny, and thus no tool is too low, no style too bad. The rules change when people or ideals we care about are threatened.
posted by DNye at 2:02 AM on March 4, 2011

And you are using the discussion to prove that you are right, no matter the context, and to prove him wrong. With extra paragraphs. It is tiresome.
posted by cavalier at 3:11 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

Funny thing is, cavalier, I don't think Brandon is wrong, particularly - I certainly never said that he was wrong - only that his rhetorical approach was unhelpful.

If one were looking for "wrong", one would probably look at the use of the subsequently corrected Samsung earnings call quote from Younghee Lee. How important you think any given set of numbers are, on the other hand, is a matter of personal opinion, so not really a question of right or wrong.

However, tone is tone. If somebody arrives on a Justin Bieber forum and questions the perfection of Justin Bieber's vocal register, they should not expect the response to be aimed at the exact issues they have raised. I misjudged the discussion here, and I'm sorry about that, because having to talk about registers rather than, say, awesome hair is pretty tiresome if one signed up to talk about awesome hair. I don't think there's much I can do to make amends except apologise to you for the time of yours I have wasted.
posted by DNye at 3:51 AM on March 4, 2011

If one were looking for "wrong", one would probably look at the use of the subsequently corrected Samsung earnings call quote from Younghee Lee. How important you think any given set of numbers are, on the other hand, is a matter of personal opinion, so not really a question of right or wrong.

1. I'm pretty sure Jobs and Co knew about the correction, but gleefully quoted the original one to tweak Samsung and make themselves look better. I don't have a problem with that.

2. I always wondered about the correction. That's quite a screwup, translation wise, using small where smooth was intended.

3. Anyway, saying that sales were "quite smooth" is incredibly vague.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:03 AM on March 4, 2011 [1 favorite]

2. I always wondered about the correction. That's quite a screwup, translation wise, using small where smooth was intended.

It wasn't even a translation error. It was a transcription error by a blog. You can here the raw English audio here. There is no possible way it is "small". Not that "smooth" makes a ton of sense, but it is what she says, or something much closer to that at least.
posted by smackfu at 5:40 AM on March 4, 2011

I always wondered about the correction. That's quite a screwup, translation wise, using small where smooth was intended.

It has nothing to do with translation. Samsung Electronics reports its earnings in two separate calls, one in English, one in Korean. This was in English. You can hear it excerpted here. Or the whole call can be listened to from the Investor Relations site. To be honest, it sounds like "smooth" to me, but then I didn't listen to it until after the correction was issued.

The failing was by a third party creating the transcript of the call. This is standard practice - usually, the company which manages the call also creates a transcript. So, in this case, Apple would probably be tweaking... Teletogether, a Korean provider of conference services? Possibly an English-speaking transcription service contracted by Teletogether. Or possibly the Samsung Investor Relations department, who might have picked that up before it went out.

But sure - this is all showbiz, basically. The analysts listened to the Samsung call. The journalists who cited the WSJ article then read the correction to the WSJ article. A month down the line, the slide is just a bit of fanservice, and fans are by definition unlikely to have a problem with it.

Again, issues of translation versus transcription are not going to be of interest in a conversation about awesome hair, however. So, again, I apologise for wasting your time by compelling you to respond further.
posted by DNye at 5:42 AM on March 4, 2011

Of course, the other interesting thing about the iPad 2 in that context is that the A5 in the iPad is manufactured by another part of Samsung Electronics - Samsung Semiconductor. So, although it isn't exactly a win-win, huge sales of the iPad 2 are not necessarily totally heartbreaking for Samsung Electronics. Naturally, completed technology is more profitable than components - albeit less so if you are trying to compete with a dominant player like the iPad by cutting prices, or achieving low volumes because of a dominant player - but Samsung is set up to be a much bigger company than Apple, with higher revenues and lower profits, and microprocessors aren't exactly a commodity the way bauxite is in the iPad value chain. Again, there's a degree of theatre here, but it keeps the machine running, and motivates fans to buy things - probably Apple and Android fans, so one hand is sort of washing the other.
posted by DNye at 6:24 AM on March 4, 2011

So, again, I apologise for wasting your time by compelling you to respond further.

Dammit, you've done it again!!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:27 AM on March 4, 2011

I know! And the worst part is that, because of the message board format's incompatible mix of the desire to get the last word and the physical impossibility of hurrying out of the room or slamming the phone down having done so, by writing this I am forcing you to do so again, as surely as if I controlled your limbs.

Sorry, man.
posted by DNye at 7:13 AM on March 4, 2011

The really funny part is that I'm not too interested in getting an iPad. New computer, yes. But not an iPad.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:21 AM on March 4, 2011

I just bought a used Mac Mini for $250 so WOO HOO me. I'll probably use it to do Android development.
posted by GuyZero at 9:44 AM on March 4, 2011

Ars Technica Reviews the Motorola Xoom:

"Although the Xoom has a lot to offer, the product feels very incomplete. A surprising number of promised hardware and software features are not functional at launch and will have to be enabled in future updates. The Xoom's quality is also diminished by some of the early technical issues and limitations that we encountered in Honeycomb. Google's nascent tablet software has a ton of potential, but it also has some feature gaps and rough edges that reflect its lack of maturity.

"In this review, we will take a close look at the Xoom hardware, the Honeycomb user experience, and the Android platform's potential as a tablet operating system.

...

"In light of Google’s vocal enthusiasm for using the Web as an application platform, it’s a bit surprising that the company is so far behind Apple in supporting that vision on a mobile device. When I tested toolkits like JQuery Mobile and Sencha Touch on the Xoom, the gaps in the Honeycomb browser’s rendering engine were painfully apparent. Animated transitions stuttered and certain visual elements were not rendered correctly.

...

"If you will pardon the indulgence, I want to share a marginally relevant personal experience. The Xoom reminds me of a trip I took to Russia a number of years ago. The Russians have meticulously consolidated their nation's vast assortment of historical artifacts and cultural treasures into a single enormous collection, which is housed in a former palace in Saint Petersburg. The facility, which is known as the Hermitage, is easily one of the greatest museums on the planet.

"It's an amazing museum, but there is a downside to putting everything of interest in one place. Everywhere else I went in Russia, at virtually every major historical site, the tour guide would have to explain that the items on display were artificial reproductions because the originals were all at the Hermitage. The explanation was repeated with such comical frequency at so many different places that it quickly became an inside joke among my fellow travelers in the tour group. After a week of seeing placeholders of where all of Russia's coolest stuff used to be, we finally got to see the originals (and much more) at the Hermitage.

"My experience with the Xoom feels like a similar situation. The product has an extraordinary set of features, but the best are simply not available at launch. While I was testing the device and studying the documentation, I was confronted repeatedly with disclaimers which explained that various features will arrive later in updates. There are so many of these disclaimers that it soon became absurd. The device, in its current state, is like a parade of promising placeholders."
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:03 AM on March 8, 2011

Samsung is set up to be a much bigger company than Apple

Apple is the second largest company in the world, and it's market cap is twice Samsung's.
posted by empath at 5:53 AM on March 8, 2011

Ars Technica Reviews the Motorola Xoom:

It really puts people in a tough spot. There are legit reasons to not want to buy into the Apple ecosystem, so hopefully the Android tablets catch up soon. There should always be a couple of good choices for people with different needs.
posted by smackfu at 6:30 AM on March 8, 2011

There should always be a couple of good choices for people with different needs.

Recently I picked up an ASUS Eee Slate to replace my aging Toshiba tabletPC. It's just over a pound heavier than the iPad/Xoom and I get between 4-6 hours of battery life but it does everything I want and makes a great portable sketchbook.
posted by the_artificer at 9:43 AM on March 8, 2011

"My experience with the Xoom feels like a similar situation. The product has an extraordinary set of features, but the best are simply not available at launch. While I was testing the device and studying the documentation, I was confronted repeatedly with disclaimers which explained that various features will arrive later in updates. There are so many of these disclaimers that it soon became absurd. The device, in its current state, is like a parade of promising placeholders."

So personally I wish the review was different but it is what it is as they say.

On the other hand, the review boils down to the second-place product being in second place.

Google can't make a product appear out of this air. The choice is always to ship less sooner or more later. Apple also makes this decision on a regular basis.

The real question is whether time will favour the leaders or the followers.
posted by GuyZero at 8:17 PM on March 8, 2011

Software-wise, Android doesn't yet really compare to iOS, but iOS has still managed to be a pretty solid offering, regardless. Still, I'm hearing Apple put crappy iPod Touch camera sensors in the iPad 2, so it's kind of a shame that there isn't much real competition on a hardware level.

More care and attention to detail from the Motorolas and Samsungs might just give Apple a bit of a push to improve hardware specs more quickly. It's a real missed opportunity — if people get a bad early impression of Android tablets, it might be hard to shake.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:15 AM on March 9, 2011

Apple is the second largest company in the world, and it's market cap is twice Samsung's.


I couldn't agree more that Apple has a huge market capitalisation, which is the value of a single share multiplied by the number of shares outstanding. It has a huge market cap because of shareholder, investor and analyst confidence, the value of its IP and licenses, its relatively low cost base and high bargaining power, its earnings per share, the high margin and desirability of its product range - all good stuff.

If market cap is the metric of largeness you are using, then Apple is absolutely one of the largest listed companies in the world, behind Exxon Mobil. I described Samsung Electronics as "bigger" - which I then explained in terms of employees and revenues. Likewise, Apple has passed Petro China in market cap, but Petro China is, I'd say, still arguably a bigger company, employing as it does about half a million people.

Apple had about 46,600 employees as of September 2010 (more here). Samsung Electronics had 174,000 employees at June 2010. Samsung Electronics' raw revenues are higher than Apple's (on a higher cost base, of course, since it is running more factories and employing more people). It's a different kind of business, and one part of that difference is the large-scale manufacturing of semiconductors - which means more employees, higher revenues and lower comparative profits per unit of labour - because selling iPads and iPhones to consumers has a higher margin than selling semiconductors which go into iPads and iPhones. Semiconductors are a high-value component, but they're still a component. Which explains why Samsung also sells higher-margin consumer goods, and has invested in R&D, branding and marketing to promote that: margins are higher, and you can control your own supply chain. Whereas Apple can switch suppliers, as it may have for the iPad 2 - there's uncertainty over whether Samsung or TSMC will be making the processors.

None of this, to be clear, is saying that one company is better than the other, or arguing for one making the best phone or tablet. Only that Samsung Electronics and Apple operate differently - which is what I said in the first place.
posted by DNye at 3:49 AM on March 9, 2011

Interesting... All HP PCs to have webOS in 2012
posted by Artw at 1:54 PM on March 9, 2011

FFS, it's a license to print money. I figured I would head down to the local APPLMART this afternoon, but I checked the Store just for giggles. Watched before my eyes as "Ships 3-5 days" refreshed into "Ships 5-7 days!" Keeeeeroist. Why do I think there's gonna be a line today?
posted by cavalier at 3:53 AM on March 11, 2011

None of this, to be clear, is saying that one company is better than the other, or arguing for one making the best phone or tablet.

No, really, Apple does make a better phone and tablet.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:26 AM on March 11, 2011 [1 favorite]

2-3 weeks!
posted by cavalier at 5:27 AM on March 11, 2011

Apple does make a better phone and tablet.

It does, and it will continue to for the foreseeable future. It's weird to see no one else even coming close right now, delivering little more than vaporware and empty promises.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:59 PM on March 11, 2011

It's weird to see no one else even coming close right now, delivering little more than vaporware and empty promises.

A colleague and I were briefly discussing this at lunch. We were remembering the G1 versus the iPhone at the time. I liked it well enough, but honestly, the G1 was a joke next to the iPhone. The Nexus S, not so much. So yeah, Apple has a hell of a lead but I don't know if I'd agree that competitors are uniformly vaporware. The Xoom exists and is the G1 of Android tablets. I hope it'll have a longer lifespan than the G1 did at least.
posted by GuyZero at 1:18 PM on March 11, 2011

Flash 10.2 beta hits Android Market on March 18th, supports Honeycomb, Gingerbread and Froyo
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on March 11, 2011

Anandtech benchmarks OpenGL performance of Xoom and iPad 2 units, finding the iPad 2 has 2x to 5x performance of a Xoom on various tests, a lead maintained even despite the Xoom's higher resolution:

Enough with the synthetics - how much of an improvement does all of this yield in the actual GLBenchmark 2.0 game tests? Oh it's big.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:34 AM on March 13, 2011

iFixIt iPad 2 teardown
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:06 AM on March 13, 2011

Security Advisory for Adobe Flash Player, Adobe Reader and Acrobat

A critical vulnerability exists in Adobe Flash Player 10.2.152.33 and earlier versions (Adobe Flash Player 10.2.154.18 and earlier for Chrome users) for Windows, Macintosh, Linux and Solaris operating systems, Adobe Flash Player 10.1.106.16 and earlier versions for Android, and the Authplay.dll component that ships with Adobe Reader and Acrobat X (10.0.1) and earlier 10.x and 9.x versions of Reader and Acrobat for Windows and Macintosh operating systems.

This vulnerability (CVE-2011-0609) could cause a crash and potentially allow an attacker to take control of the affected system. There are reports that this vulnerability is being exploited in the wild in targeted attacks via a Flash (.swf) file embedded in a Microsoft Excel (.xls) file delivered as an email attachment. At this time, Adobe is not aware of attacks targeting Adobe Reader and Acrobat. Adobe Reader X Protected Mode mitigations would prevent an exploit of this kind from executing.

We are in the process of finalizing a fix for the issue and expect to make available an update for Flash Player 10.x and earlier versions for Windows, Macintosh, Linux, Solaris and Android, and an update for Adobe Acrobat X (10.0.1) and earlier 10.x and 9.x versions for Windows and Macintosh, Adobe Reader X (10.0.1) for Macintosh, and Adobe Reader 9.4.2 and earlier 9.x versions during the week of March 21, 2011. Because Adobe Reader X Protected Mode would prevent an exploit of this kind from executing, we are currently planning to address this issue in Adobe Reader X for Windows with the next quarterly security update for Adobe Reader, currently scheduled for June 14, 2011.

Affected software versions
* Adobe Flash Player 10.2.152.33 and earlier versions for Windows, Macintosh, Linux and Solaris operating systems
* Adobe Flash Player 10.2.154.18 and earlier for Chrome users
* Adobe Flash Player 10.1.106.16 and earlier for Android
* The Authplay.dll component that ships with Adobe Reader and Acrobat X (10.0.1) and earlier 10.x and 9.x versions for Windows and Macintosh operating systems. [...]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 2:45 AM on March 15, 2011

The Xoom exists and is the G1 of Android tablets. I hope it'll have a longer lifespan than the G1 did at least.

Especially since there have been no complaints about the hardware, just the version 1.0 software.
posted by smackfu at 6:46 AM on March 15, 2011

If anyone ever comes back to this thread, just want to throw out that the Garage Band app is awwwweeessoommmeee. I'd love to hear how it runs on the original iPad. It is very thorough throughout and a lot of fun. Also, expect a bunch of autoplayed-autotuned youtube soundtracks this year.
posted by cavalier at 6:39 PM on March 19, 2011 [1 favorite]

No, really, Apple does make a better phone and tablet.

And is the second largest company in the world, and what about that translation from the Korean? Crazy, huh? It must be spin.

Ah, well. Actively not wanting to know things is one possible way to be happy. It optimises the pleasantness of the user experience at the cost of a degree of flexibility - much like IOS, in fact, which is a great OS for its purpose.

It's a good thing that consumers have that option, and it can only spur intellectual curiosity to improve its own overcomplex user experience.
posted by DNye at 6:30 AM on March 22, 2011

Samsung steps up it's game
posted by Artw at 9:38 AM on March 22, 2011

Kind of pretty, too.
posted by Artw at 9:40 AM on March 22, 2011

Blackberry PlayBook price, date
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on March 22, 2011

Wow, that TouchWiz is a mess. And a horrible name.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:32 PM on March 22, 2011

Nobody Needs a Tablet. So Why Are We Gobbling Them Up?
posted by Artw at 4:09 PM on March 24, 2011

Tip: How to get an iPad 2 at Target
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:08 PM on March 25, 2011

Samsung caught presenting actors as Galaxy Tab "consumers," fudging thinnest tablet claims
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:49 PM on March 25, 2011

Is Samsung’s New Galaxy Tab Fibbing About Its Figure? And About Those Galaxy Tab Fans…
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:52 PM on March 25, 2011

But just what is a tablet good for? It’s not a complete replacement of a PC and it’s not a necessity for anyone who carries around a notebook or a smartphone.

Yeah, I have one because I don't want to carry around either a notebook or a smartphone. One's too big, and one's too small. Could you really not figure that out on your own, Wired?
posted by Horace Rumpole at 8:12 AM on March 26, 2011

I don't really give a crap about whether the Galaxy tablet is actually thinner than my iPad. I'll buy one happily if I can actually move files around on it.
posted by koeselitz at 8:40 AM on March 26, 2011

Google Keeping Android Honeycomb Closed For "Foreseeable Future"

Google will not be making Honeycomb, the latest iteration of its Android software, open for developers to play with and tweak for the "foreseeable future," BusinessWeek reports.

...

[Google VP Andy] Rubin swears Android is still an open operating system, and Google isn't changing its position. But by keep [sic] the software closed off from everyone but a handful of partners it will raise the eyebrows of all the people who are skeptical about Google's talk about being "open."
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:14 PM on March 26, 2011

iPad vs Kindle review in 2 images.
posted by Artw at 6:50 AM on March 29, 2011

Do Not Anger the Alpha Android

So much for "It's got teh opens," eh, fellas?
posted by entropicamericana at 12:55 PM on March 31, 2011

Yep. They all suck, now. Too bad.
posted by koeselitz at 1:51 PM on March 31, 2011

That's a simplification. My iPhone surely does not suck, and it isn't "open", either. Thing is, Apple never claimed it was. I've "bought in" to an ecosystem and marketplace in good faith, based on an understanding of what was being offered. So far so good.

To me, Android turning its back on "openness" just shows that the whole, "we're open and going to save the future of the mobile space from Apple" narrative was pure strategic marketing. And it was parroted everywhere. That shit worked. It's not surprising, really. I remember a post that showed the "crusade against closed Apple" didn't fit the historic timeline of product releases and development, back when they started tooting that horn. Ah, here it is.

The only surprise is that they showed their cards so soon. My guess is the influx of Android handset users—something that has occurred due to low price points, multiple carriers, and a new goddamn headset from one of many hardware manufacturers almost every month, NOT "openness"—has led them to move to the next phase. I bet diehard Android users that previously couldn't stop talking about "openness" move onto new talking points soon.
posted by defenestration at 2:23 PM on March 31, 2011 [2 favorites]

Hey, I've got an iPad. I use it every day. But there are ways in which it genuinely does suck, and I would never buy another one; I lack control over my device in essential ways, ways that matter to me, and that holds back my use of it. Openness matters. And the fact that someone else isn't open doesn't make Apple's super-closed software model okay.
posted by koeselitz at 2:34 PM on March 31, 2011

It does suck that Android moved away from "openness" and especially open source. It was really cool that a major player was doing that, and finding success with it.

I'm more saying that [No "openness" on my smartphone ≠ suckiness], at least for me. And that [misrepresenting your ethos and selling people on something you then change once its sold = suckiness], at least for me.

Android's "openness" was a juicy bit of technology pundit catnip while it lasted, though.
posted by defenestration at 2:51 PM on March 31, 2011

iMixmetaphors
posted by defenestration at 3:00 PM on March 31, 2011

Photoshop on iPad?
posted by Artw at 3:24 PM on March 31, 2011

Do Not Anger the Alpha Android

Well, that's going to annoy some nerds. On the other hand you can see how fragmentation problems (and carriers loading phones up with crap) leads to this, and those annoy actual customers, and TBH I don't see anyone crying that much for the carriers here.
posted by Artw at 3:31 PM on March 31, 2011

And the guy who manages the open source release is still accepting contributions to Android. Good luck geting a patch accepted into iOS.
posted by GuyZero at 3:38 PM on March 31, 2011 [1 favorite]

Google’s Android anti-fragmentation push is vital
posted by Artw at 2:41 PM on April 1, 2011