CNN's "palestinians celebrating in the streets" footage may be from 1991.
September 13, 2001 1:32 PM Subscribe
CNN's "palestinians celebrating in the streets" footage may be from 1991. While this is one person's opinion, it'd be nice if there was some verification from CNN either way on this.
if you read that whole thread, you see plenty of people refuting it, with examples, such as recent makes of cars seen in the videos, the fact that Palestinians are asking the media to STOP broadcasting the celebrations, reports from friends and family in the area who report that it is indeed happening, etc. NOT that I automatically trust CNN or any other news network...according to "Unreliable Sources," a book by Martin Lee and Norman Solomon, CBS was exposed in 1989 for having aired fake combat footage and false news reports about the war in Afghanistan a few years earlier. It had staged scenes of guerrilla warfare and turned footage of a Pakistani jet on a training run into a Soviet plane bombing villages.
posted by fotzepolitic at 2:01 PM on September 13, 2001
posted by fotzepolitic at 2:01 PM on September 13, 2001
It doesn't matter, does it? As I said in the other thread, there were Palestinians who were happy, that is a fact regardless of what video exists.
But what's more important is that this is a SMALL minority who would think such a thing, and an even smaller minority who would publicly celebrate. Showing the footage again and again in that context, hours after the attack is a bad decision and distorts reality.
posted by eric anders at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2001
But what's more important is that this is a SMALL minority who would think such a thing, and an even smaller minority who would publicly celebrate. Showing the footage again and again in that context, hours after the attack is a bad decision and distorts reality.
posted by eric anders at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2001
I read somewhere that the celebrations were only seen in Ramallah, which is the nerve centre of the Intifada and is not surprising. In any case, as someone else pointed out in an earlier thread, those poor people couldnt even point out the US on a map. Yasser Arafat seemed genuinely shocked by it, which is odd for someone who spent years of his life planning and carrying out similar attacks. Having lived for some time in the Middle East, I can say that I have never seen anti-American sentiment (except on TV) and most people I met love the US and have family living there.
posted by fellorwaspushed at 2:12 PM on September 13, 2001
posted by fellorwaspushed at 2:12 PM on September 13, 2001
I agree. CNN and other networks have been pushing ahead the idea of this tragedy as a war. What good could these images do a few hours after the attacks? It could only enrage more people agains Palestinians and other Muslims minorities.
posted by papalotl at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2001
posted by papalotl at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2001
If those were not Palestinians rejoycing, then why the reports today that Arafat has told camera crews that any pictures taken of such scenes would be confiscated? Did the media make that story up too? There are of course many many Palestians that see this terror attack as horrible. But that does not mean some delight in it.
posted by Postroad at 2:15 PM on September 13, 2001
posted by Postroad at 2:15 PM on September 13, 2001
It doesn't matter, does it? As I said in the other thread, there were Palestinians who were happy, that is a fact regardless of what video exists.
Yes, it most certainly DOES matter. If Palestinians are celebrating the attack, then that should be demonstrable and reportable without resorting to fabrication and the abuse of the public's (relative) trust in its major media outlets. Holding the U.S. press accountable to standards of ethics and veracity will be far more important to our society in the long run than the fallout from any particular terrorist attack.
posted by rushmc at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2001
Yes, it most certainly DOES matter. If Palestinians are celebrating the attack, then that should be demonstrable and reportable without resorting to fabrication and the abuse of the public's (relative) trust in its major media outlets. Holding the U.S. press accountable to standards of ethics and veracity will be far more important to our society in the long run than the fallout from any particular terrorist attack.
posted by rushmc at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2001
Yes, Postroad, but every time they are shown there should be a caveat added that these scenes are not representational of all of Palestine. Cletus in Arkansas with his AK might not be as circumspect as you or I.
*apologies to anyone in Arkansas named Cletus*
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2001
*apologies to anyone in Arkansas named Cletus*
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2001
Celebrations almost certainly occurred, yet those taping them were threatened and possibly convinced to keep quiet.
If CNN did show footage from 1991, then it is possible that they were using whatever visual material they had to convey an event that was actually happening (much like the recent picture of Bill Gates celebrating). If it actually did happen, I have no problem with the footage in question. If it didn't, then we have a problem.
Although, I personally have a problem with how this being conveyed by CNN. In reality, I would suspect that while celebrations have occurred, there are many people in the same region hurt, afraid, and utterly shocked.
posted by samsara at 2:26 PM on September 13, 2001
If CNN did show footage from 1991, then it is possible that they were using whatever visual material they had to convey an event that was actually happening (much like the recent picture of Bill Gates celebrating). If it actually did happen, I have no problem with the footage in question. If it didn't, then we have a problem.
Although, I personally have a problem with how this being conveyed by CNN. In reality, I would suspect that while celebrations have occurred, there are many people in the same region hurt, afraid, and utterly shocked.
posted by samsara at 2:26 PM on September 13, 2001
As someone pointed out in a another thread, the first video we saw of celebrations came just a few hours after the attack. While the video showed people dancing in the streets in broad daylight, it was still the middle of the night in the Middle East.
Do I doubt that some people found joy in our suffering? No. But I don't doubt either that even some Americans, the Tim McVeigh types that are still among us, were glad to see carnage. There are 6 billion people on this planet. For any given conceivable point of view, you can find someone, somewhere, who believes the exact opposite.
posted by jpoulos at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2001
Do I doubt that some people found joy in our suffering? No. But I don't doubt either that even some Americans, the Tim McVeigh types that are still among us, were glad to see carnage. There are 6 billion people on this planet. For any given conceivable point of view, you can find someone, somewhere, who believes the exact opposite.
posted by jpoulos at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2001
this is from a different thread on meta:
images of palestinians
posted by m2bcubed at 2:54 PM on September 13, 2001
images of palestinians
posted by m2bcubed at 2:54 PM on September 13, 2001
Actually, it wasn't "still" the middle of the night. Any photos/videos taken in Israel would be 6 hours ahead of us... the earliest AP time for any news about celebrations was 1:30pm ET = 7:30 for them. I'm at about the same latitude as Israel and Lebanon, so at 7:30 I'm going to see how light it is outside... some of the photos on yahoo's feed definitely look earlier than that but I'm not sure.
posted by kidsplate at 3:22 PM on September 13, 2001
posted by kidsplate at 3:22 PM on September 13, 2001
samsara - Can you provide a link to the Bill Gates (obviously fake) footage?
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 8:06 PM on September 13, 2001
posted by HoldenCaulfield at 8:06 PM on September 13, 2001
Yes, Postroad, but every time they are shown there should be a caveat added that these scenes are not representational of all of Palestine. Cletus in Arkansas with his AK might not be as circumspect as you or I.
Thanks for looking out for us in the south. You are thoughtful indeed, and your generalizations are greatly appreciated.
Gotta go clean my gun now.
posted by justgary at 12:28 AM on September 14, 2001
Thanks for looking out for us in the south. You are thoughtful indeed, and your generalizations are greatly appreciated.
Gotta go clean my gun now.
posted by justgary at 12:28 AM on September 14, 2001
By the way, I was joking.
It came out sounding serious.
It wasn't.
:)
posted by justgary at 12:32 AM on September 14, 2001
It came out sounding serious.
It wasn't.
:)
posted by justgary at 12:32 AM on September 14, 2001
About that second set of images from m2bcubed, I hate to sound cynical but something is very very strange.
All of those children with nicely laser printed placards written in perfect english holding American flags. Something just looks very staged. Almost like there is an undeclared media war going on here...
I mean, I know that have laser printers and construction paper and that many know perfectly good English, but tiny American flags???
Hmmm. So strange. I can't help but feelnig that something is up...
posted by fooljay at 12:56 AM on September 14, 2001
All of those children with nicely laser printed placards written in perfect english holding American flags. Something just looks very staged. Almost like there is an undeclared media war going on here...
I mean, I know that have laser printers and construction paper and that many know perfectly good English, but tiny American flags???
Hmmm. So strange. I can't help but feelnig that something is up...
posted by fooljay at 12:56 AM on September 14, 2001
Israel is 7 hours ahead of NY. So 1:30 PM in NY is 8:30 in Israel (check it out for yourselves). 8:30 PM in Athens is already dark, and Athens is North of Israel. Ergo, either the footage was taken earlier than 8:00 PM, or it is indeed fake.
posted by talos at 3:12 AM on September 14, 2001
posted by talos at 3:12 AM on September 14, 2001
As someone pointed out in a another thread, the first video we saw of celebrations came just a few hours after the attack. While the video showed people dancing in the streets in broad daylight, it was still the middle of the night in the Middle East.
It was shortly before 4 p.m. in Israel when the first plane struck. Considering the large number of photos of celebrating Palestinians that were filed by different news services on Tuesday, I think the most likely explanation is that the video footage was shot during daylight hours on Sept. 11 but did not air in the U.S. until a few hours later.
However, if people prefer to believe the entire media is conspiring to make extremist Palestinians look bad -- despite the fact they do a pretty good job of it themselves -- there's not a lot that can be offered to contradict that.
posted by rcade at 7:14 AM on September 14, 2001
It was shortly before 4 p.m. in Israel when the first plane struck. Considering the large number of photos of celebrating Palestinians that were filed by different news services on Tuesday, I think the most likely explanation is that the video footage was shot during daylight hours on Sept. 11 but did not air in the U.S. until a few hours later.
However, if people prefer to believe the entire media is conspiring to make extremist Palestinians look bad -- despite the fact they do a pretty good job of it themselves -- there's not a lot that can be offered to contradict that.
posted by rcade at 7:14 AM on September 14, 2001
Israel is only 6 hours ahead of us currently because of US daylight savings time. 9 am = 3 pm. The middle of the afternoon.
posted by Dreama at 7:16 AM on September 14, 2001
posted by Dreama at 7:16 AM on September 14, 2001
Dreama:
1. It is solar time that counts. If it was dark at 8:30 PM in Athens Greece (we have +7h from NY), you can bet that it was dark at the same time in Israel no matter what the clock read.
2. Are you sure that Israel doesn't have daylight savings time? Check this BTW and compare. Israel has the same time as Greece which is NY time + 7.
And rcade, even if celebrating did occur in some areas of Palestinian territory, it is NOT OK for a "respectable news source" to show archive footage as current.
posted by talos at 7:29 AM on September 14, 2001
1. It is solar time that counts. If it was dark at 8:30 PM in Athens Greece (we have +7h from NY), you can bet that it was dark at the same time in Israel no matter what the clock read.
2. Are you sure that Israel doesn't have daylight savings time? Check this BTW and compare. Israel has the same time as Greece which is NY time + 7.
And rcade, even if celebrating did occur in some areas of Palestinian territory, it is NOT OK for a "respectable news source" to show archive footage as current.
posted by talos at 7:29 AM on September 14, 2001
What bothers me about the "celebrating in the streets" video is the misrepresentation. We keep seeing the same video, of the same people. As far as we know, those in the video could be the only Palestinians happy with this whole mess. How'd you feel if CNN continually showed footage of the KKK as a representation of America's race-relations?
posted by Newbornstranger at 9:00 AM on September 14, 2001
posted by Newbornstranger at 9:00 AM on September 14, 2001
And rcade, even if celebrating did occur in some areas of Palestinian territory, it is NOT OK for a "respectable news source" to show archive footage as current.
I agree with you. But I haven't seen any credible evidence yet to suggest that is what happened. (The IndyMedia link isn't working for me, so I can't judge it.)
posted by rcade at 9:14 AM on September 14, 2001
I agree with you. But I haven't seen any credible evidence yet to suggest that is what happened. (The IndyMedia link isn't working for me, so I can't judge it.)
posted by rcade at 9:14 AM on September 14, 2001
My mother and I both noticed that the Palestinian
middle-aged woman in the headscarf and glasses
looked awfully familiar. I can't say for sure that I have
seen the video before, but I have definitely seen HER in
other such situations.
At the vary least it seems to be that they have
a core group of America-haters that they film each time
something like this happens. The majority were children
supposedly celebrating, but children can be paid and
bribed to do such things...
posted by Timebot at 10:07 AM on September 14, 2001
middle-aged woman in the headscarf and glasses
looked awfully familiar. I can't say for sure that I have
seen the video before, but I have definitely seen HER in
other such situations.
At the vary least it seems to be that they have
a core group of America-haters that they film each time
something like this happens. The majority were children
supposedly celebrating, but children can be paid and
bribed to do such things...
posted by Timebot at 10:07 AM on September 14, 2001
Holden, it was Bill Gates celebrating Microsoft's winning of the the anti-trust lawsuit. The image was actually him celebrating Windows XP. Discussed in this thread.
posted by samsara at 10:49 AM on September 14, 2001
posted by samsara at 10:49 AM on September 14, 2001
On Sunday, "Le Vrai Journal" on French TV Canal+ showed the CNN crew while they took these images. They were only a dozen people here (mostly kids) in front of the camera.
So (if we believe this subsidiary of Vivendi Universal) the images are real but were much amplified. If you look at them again, you'll see they're taken in close-up.
posted by otravers at 3:08 PM on September 17, 2001
So (if we believe this subsidiary of Vivendi Universal) the images are real but were much amplified. If you look at them again, you'll see they're taken in close-up.
posted by otravers at 3:08 PM on September 17, 2001
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posted by Postroad at 1:42 PM on September 13, 2001