We Make Our Own Movies
May 2, 2011 10:35 PM Subscribe
Craig Finn (The Hold Steady) has premiered 'One Single Saviour', a solo song at Minnesota Public Radio's Wits. The show was hosted by music writer Chuck Klosterman, who's book 'Fargo Rock City is being adapted by Craig. Klosterman was recently interviewed by the AV Club about the project. Chuck previously. THS previously.
I know I am pretty much alone in this, but I freaking HATE Klosterman. I find him to be a self aggrandizing look-at-me-I'm-so-uncool-I'm-cool hack.
Nope, not alone. He seems to hold no actual positions, preferring to default to a reflexive whatever-you-say-is-wrong-and-not-worth-my-consideration. He's a writer of middling talent, he's precious, and he's too convinced of his own genius and significance.
posted by penduluum at 11:07 PM on May 2, 2011
Nope, not alone. He seems to hold no actual positions, preferring to default to a reflexive whatever-you-say-is-wrong-and-not-worth-my-consideration. He's a writer of middling talent, he's precious, and he's too convinced of his own genius and significance.
posted by penduluum at 11:07 PM on May 2, 2011
There was a girl I liked ages ago who worked at a bookstore. We'd chatted online about music, and she was always attacking me for being a huge rockist. So of course she's working on the day I'm in her store, flipping through a Chuck Klosterman book.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:10 PM on May 2, 2011
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:10 PM on May 2, 2011
Well I have no freakin' clue who this Klosterman guy is or what he did to piss ya'll off so bad but I'm totally excited to see Finn do a screenplay and even if Klosterman is some vampire pedophile or something you can't take that away from me.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 11:12 PM on May 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Matt Oneiros at 11:12 PM on May 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Meh. Give me a half drunk Finn wailing over a driving guitar and crashing drums. You can take or leave the piano, but get the stand-up bass and the xylophone the fuck out.
posted by clearly at 11:20 PM on May 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by clearly at 11:20 PM on May 2, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well I have no freakin' clue who this Klosterman guy is or what he did to piss ya'll off so bad but I'm totally excited to see Finn do a screenplay and even if Klosterman is some vampire pedophile or something you can't take that away from me.
'Holly wore a cross to ward them off...'
I did a quick throughline based on Separation Sunday for a filmmaking class and it seems like it would work well as a movie. I wish Craig was adapting his own stuff into a film. I want my pseudo-Catholic psychic rock and roll epic!
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:21 PM on May 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
Pretty much the whole Lifter Puller discography would work as a killer script outline too.
Finn is pretty much destined for the screen and/or novel as a writer.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 11:26 PM on May 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
Finn is pretty much destined for the screen and/or novel as a writer.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 11:26 PM on May 2, 2011 [1 favorite]
"I know I am pretty much alone in this"
Nope. Klosterman is a douche.
posted by bardic at 11:27 PM on May 2, 2011
Nope. Klosterman is a douche.
posted by bardic at 11:27 PM on May 2, 2011
And I like the Hold Steady but I only listened to the latest album one and a half times. Just didn't grab me at all. I wonder if they can really make a good album without the mustachio'd keyboard dude.
posted by bardic at 11:28 PM on May 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by bardic at 11:28 PM on May 2, 2011 [3 favorites]
I know I am pretty much alone in this, but I freaking HATE Klosterman.
posted by mediocre at 6:45 AM on May 3
Oh no. You are very far from alone there.
posted by Decani at 11:52 PM on May 2, 2011
posted by mediocre at 6:45 AM on May 3
Oh no. You are very far from alone there.
posted by Decani at 11:52 PM on May 2, 2011
Prediction:
Ten years from now, both Craig Finn and Patterson Hood will be writing award-winning screenplays.
And Chuck Klosterman will not.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:06 AM on May 3, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ten years from now, both Craig Finn and Patterson Hood will be writing award-winning screenplays.
And Chuck Klosterman will not.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:06 AM on May 3, 2011 [4 favorites]
Ten years from now, both Craig Finn and Patterson Hood will be writing award-winning screenplays.
oh god please let it be true
posted by NoraReed at 12:33 AM on May 3, 2011
oh god please let it be true
posted by NoraReed at 12:33 AM on May 3, 2011
Chuck Klosterman isn't so much terrible as he is overrated. Somewhere along the line, people started ascribing a Lester Bangs-like aura to him in matters of rock music and popular culture criticism. I don't understand how or why people would do that, especially if you've read Bangs and Klosterman.
posted by KingEdRa at 12:36 AM on May 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by KingEdRa at 12:36 AM on May 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
oh my god he's using broken wing metaphors
it's like he wrote it specifically for me... at 13
posted by NoraReed at 12:43 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
it's like he wrote it specifically for me... at 13
posted by NoraReed at 12:43 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is the first I have heard from the Hold Steady, and I don't mean to be douchy, and I like your posts, and you are a good person, and it's probably me not you, and after I will buy you a drink, but isn't that song just a string of cliches?
posted by puny human at 1:06 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by puny human at 1:06 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
acoustic guitars should be banned
posted by dydecker at 1:28 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by dydecker at 1:28 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
acoustic guitars should be banned
The Taliban support you in this worthy initiative.
posted by Wolof at 2:12 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Taliban support you in this worthy initiative.
posted by Wolof at 2:12 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've met him. He's a nice guy. And Fargo Rock City was a good book.
posted by jonmc at 4:32 AM on May 3, 2011
posted by jonmc at 4:32 AM on May 3, 2011
And yeah, The Hold Steady started to lose me a bit with Stay Positive, which was a fine album but sounded to me like Boys and Girls in America's not-quite-so-talented sibling. Like bardic, I listened to the last one once, or maybe twice, and it just sounded like a watered-down repeat of stuff they'd done better before. Unless they can think of somewhere else to go, or kick where they are up the arse, I'd say they're well into diminishing returns now.
posted by Decani at 5:04 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Decani at 5:04 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
They haven't been playing many songs from it on their most recent tour. I think there are great songs there, though. Rock Problems, The Smidge, Hurricane J.
But yeah as much as I love the rest of the band maybe Craig needs to do a solo project or a Patton-style oddball collaboration or something. OTOH, 'A Slight Discomfort' would be a grim note to end the band on.
I like Klosterman. He's comforting and writes interesting counterfactuals. I'm not sure he's the one to encourage Craig to do something new, though.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:29 AM on May 3, 2011
But yeah as much as I love the rest of the band maybe Craig needs to do a solo project or a Patton-style oddball collaboration or something. OTOH, 'A Slight Discomfort' would be a grim note to end the band on.
I like Klosterman. He's comforting and writes interesting counterfactuals. I'm not sure he's the one to encourage Craig to do something new, though.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:29 AM on May 3, 2011
This is the first I have heard from the Hold Steady . . . isn't that song just a string of cliches?
Probably so, but it's written by a rock writer (Klosterman), not a rock musician like actual Hold Steady songs. Remember Brendan Behan comparing theater critics to eunuchs in a harem: "They see it performed every night, but they're unable to do it themselves."
posted by yerfatma at 5:36 AM on May 3, 2011
Probably so, but it's written by a rock writer (Klosterman), not a rock musician like actual Hold Steady songs. Remember Brendan Behan comparing theater critics to eunuchs in a harem: "They see it performed every night, but they're unable to do it themselves."
posted by yerfatma at 5:36 AM on May 3, 2011
I think it's hard to deny that Klosterman can be really entertaining. I consider him sort of the B-movie DF Wallace, for when you want to hear eighties band references rather than obscure words pulled from the thesaurus.
The worst thing I ever read was Klosterman's short story at the end of Klosterman IV -- I can't imagine how it would be to read an entire novel by him.
posted by Think_Long at 5:55 AM on May 3, 2011
The worst thing I ever read was Klosterman's short story at the end of Klosterman IV -- I can't imagine how it would be to read an entire novel by him.
posted by Think_Long at 5:55 AM on May 3, 2011
Metafilter: Your favorite musician sucks, your favorite writer sucks, and their collaboration sucks on toast.
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:01 AM on May 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Horace Rumpole at 7:01 AM on May 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
I'll just throw this out there for posterity - if you liked listening consider throwing MPR some cash. They have an awesome station, but the state budget proposals are trying to gut their funding. Even though it won't reduce state spending at all. Why Republicans hate public radio I can't fathom. I have no affiliation with the station other than my annual donation; but they rock and they could use support. (If you don't want to donate here, why not your own local NPR affiliate?)
OK appeal to your wallet is over, back to hating on Klosterman.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:01 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
OK appeal to your wallet is over, back to hating on Klosterman.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:01 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
This is the first I have heard from the Hold Steady . . . isn't that song just a string of cliches?
Probably so, but it's written by a rock writer (Klosterman), not a rock musician like actual Hold Steady songs.
One of us is confused -- the song is written by Finn, right? As I understood it, Craig's debuting his solo stuff on a show hosted by Chuck, who he also happens to be collaborating with on a screenplay.
posted by statolith at 7:08 AM on May 3, 2011
Probably so, but it's written by a rock writer (Klosterman), not a rock musician like actual Hold Steady songs.
One of us is confused -- the song is written by Finn, right? As I understood it, Craig's debuting his solo stuff on a show hosted by Chuck, who he also happens to be collaborating with on a screenplay.
posted by statolith at 7:08 AM on May 3, 2011
Why Republicans hate public radio I can't fathom.
At the risk of sounding dickishly dismissive, it plays well to the frothier fringe of the base who can't stand anything that isn't FOX. "On the Media" did a good bunch of pieces on public radio's objectivity that included some pretty enlightening perspectives -- there are some nutters out there who view everything from public radio to universities as part of a vast, evil conspiracy. If you've got the patience, I recommend you read some contemporary Christian fiction to get an idea of where they're coming from on this. You can pretty much pick a book at random off the shelf.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:15 AM on May 3, 2011
At the risk of sounding dickishly dismissive, it plays well to the frothier fringe of the base who can't stand anything that isn't FOX. "On the Media" did a good bunch of pieces on public radio's objectivity that included some pretty enlightening perspectives -- there are some nutters out there who view everything from public radio to universities as part of a vast, evil conspiracy. If you've got the patience, I recommend you read some contemporary Christian fiction to get an idea of where they're coming from on this. You can pretty much pick a book at random off the shelf.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:15 AM on May 3, 2011
I'm a Democrat and I can't stand public radio. But that's because of the content. Right-wingers hate the idea of it.
posted by jonmc at 7:21 AM on May 3, 2011
posted by jonmc at 7:21 AM on May 3, 2011
dydecker: “acoustic guitars should be banned”
Amen. That goes double for electric guitars. Guitars are a stupid, pointless, played-out instrument on which almost no creativity is possible at this point. The fact that people are still aping this nostalgic brand of gravelly-voiced rockishness – it's just sad at this point. We've fallen in love with our parents' music in the absolute worst way. We need something new.
posted by koeselitz at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2011
Amen. That goes double for electric guitars. Guitars are a stupid, pointless, played-out instrument on which almost no creativity is possible at this point. The fact that people are still aping this nostalgic brand of gravelly-voiced rockishness – it's just sad at this point. We've fallen in love with our parents' music in the absolute worst way. We need something new.
posted by koeselitz at 7:30 AM on May 3, 2011
I hate public radio for what it has become: the comfortable home of the haute bourgeoisie, Ira Glass sound-alikes making unlistenable, twee, shrill radio documentaries, and shitty idiotic cliched music like the song listed above. There are some bright spots like PRI's The World, and Science Fridays, but as a whole, NPR is a shadow of its former self.
And LiB, I don't mean my criticisms as a "your fave band sucks" but more like 2 people disagreeing on a movie they have just seen. For example, you made a Replacements post last week. Pick any of their songs at random, look at the lyrics and show me one cliched line. It's difficult innit? Now listen to the Finn song above and notice that every single line is just one hackneyed rock cliche after another. He sounds like a 3rd rate Elvis Costello impersonator. That's why the Replacements still sound fresh 30 years later and one listen is enough for a song like this.
posted by puny human at 7:58 AM on May 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
And LiB, I don't mean my criticisms as a "your fave band sucks" but more like 2 people disagreeing on a movie they have just seen. For example, you made a Replacements post last week. Pick any of their songs at random, look at the lyrics and show me one cliched line. It's difficult innit? Now listen to the Finn song above and notice that every single line is just one hackneyed rock cliche after another. He sounds like a 3rd rate Elvis Costello impersonator. That's why the Replacements still sound fresh 30 years later and one listen is enough for a song like this.
posted by puny human at 7:58 AM on May 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm a Democrat and I can't stand public radio. But that's because of the content.
Aside from our public news station, this is what Minnesotans mean when we talk about public radio:
The Current
I think the station is a symbol of the way Minnesotans nurture their art and music scenes. The same culture that makes a Hold Steady (or a Prince, or a Replacements) possible makes this station exist. A place where you can hear Adele followed by Link Wray followed by Television followed by no commercial interruptions.
Take me with a grain of salt though, I like Chuck Klosterman.
posted by padraigin at 7:59 AM on May 3, 2011
Aside from our public news station, this is what Minnesotans mean when we talk about public radio:
The Current
I think the station is a symbol of the way Minnesotans nurture their art and music scenes. The same culture that makes a Hold Steady (or a Prince, or a Replacements) possible makes this station exist. A place where you can hear Adele followed by Link Wray followed by Television followed by no commercial interruptions.
Take me with a grain of salt though, I like Chuck Klosterman.
posted by padraigin at 7:59 AM on May 3, 2011
I was at this show, and everyone to a man was fantastic, including Klosterman. I appreciate your opinion, Metafilter, but Klosterman was incredibly funny and amazingly sharp witted.
So, hate Klosterman, hate NPR, hate Ira Glass, whatever. I personally enjoy listening to smart people saying smart things, and I'll take NPR over whatever shill crap is available everywhere else. It was a very fun evening, and I'm looking forward to the next one later this month (Sandra Bernhard and Roseanne Cash).
There were some great stories shared at this event, and they also phoned and chatted with Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue. Come on haters, that has to count for something.
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:03 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
So, hate Klosterman, hate NPR, hate Ira Glass, whatever. I personally enjoy listening to smart people saying smart things, and I'll take NPR over whatever shill crap is available everywhere else. It was a very fun evening, and I'm looking forward to the next one later this month (Sandra Bernhard and Roseanne Cash).
There were some great stories shared at this event, and they also phoned and chatted with Nikki Sixx of Motley Crue. Come on haters, that has to count for something.
posted by mcstayinskool at 8:03 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
I am very jealous mcstayinskool, I wanted to be there too. I really like that MPR is branching more and more into live events.
posted by Think_Long at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2011
posted by Think_Long at 8:24 AM on May 3, 2011
One of us is confused -- the song is written by Finn, right?
It's me. I totally read that wrong.
posted by yerfatma at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2011
It's me. I totally read that wrong.
posted by yerfatma at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2011
The fact that people are still aping this nostalgic brand of gravelly-voiced rockishness – it's just sad at this point. We've fallen in love with our parents' music in the absolute worst way. We need something new.
I thought you were joking at first. I have to disagree with you. As I get older, I get more interested in what moves my ass, rather than my head. I appreciate (what I consider) authenticity: not kids making sure to wear flannel and jeans and dig up classic instruments, but people who make music because they absolutely have to play music or they will explode. I don't care what they use to create that music, I just want more of it.
What I absolutely cannot stand nowadays are these insufferable twits who sound apologetic about making music, who sing through their goddamn face because it's not cool to care or to act like something is important to me and then they get a giant goddamn fanbase of kids who don't know what the fuck to care about so this must be important because I read on the blog of a guy who read on a blog of a guy who . . . ad infinitum. I'd rather have one Hold Steady song than the entire catalog of Sufjan Stevens, Animal Collective, et al.
One of the presets on my radio is SiriusXMU, which purports to be a college station, but as someone who was raised on Brown University's WBRU in the 80s (maybe I'm just old), it's nothing like that. They don't give a crap about the music, they care about how obscure it is. Everything needs to be a side project of some trust fund reject no one's ever heard of and it damn well better be released on a very specific weight of vinyl or it's just not any good.
posted by yerfatma at 8:47 AM on May 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
I thought you were joking at first. I have to disagree with you. As I get older, I get more interested in what moves my ass, rather than my head. I appreciate (what I consider) authenticity: not kids making sure to wear flannel and jeans and dig up classic instruments, but people who make music because they absolutely have to play music or they will explode. I don't care what they use to create that music, I just want more of it.
What I absolutely cannot stand nowadays are these insufferable twits who sound apologetic about making music, who sing through their goddamn face because it's not cool to care or to act like something is important to me and then they get a giant goddamn fanbase of kids who don't know what the fuck to care about so this must be important because I read on the blog of a guy who read on a blog of a guy who . . . ad infinitum. I'd rather have one Hold Steady song than the entire catalog of Sufjan Stevens, Animal Collective, et al.
One of the presets on my radio is SiriusXMU, which purports to be a college station, but as someone who was raised on Brown University's WBRU in the 80s (maybe I'm just old), it's nothing like that. They don't give a crap about the music, they care about how obscure it is. Everything needs to be a side project of some trust fund reject no one's ever heard of and it damn well better be released on a very specific weight of vinyl or it's just not any good.
posted by yerfatma at 8:47 AM on May 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Amen. That goes double for electric guitars. Guitars are a stupid, pointless, played-out instrument on which almost no creativity is possible at this point. The fact that people are still aping this nostalgic brand of gravelly-voiced rockishness – it's just sad at this point. We've fallen in love with our parents' music in the absolute worst way. We need something new.
Fuck. You know what else? Pianos. And keyboards. They've been the scourge of music for centuries. Fucking sick of them. Wind instruments too. So fucking sick of them. Way overused. There was a period in the last 300 years where you couldn't get away from them.
Actually, come to think of it, the real problem is musical notes. Once we get out from under the oppressive tyranny of musical notes we will be free.
And your favorite percussion instrument sucks too.
posted by eyeballkid at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
Fuck. You know what else? Pianos. And keyboards. They've been the scourge of music for centuries. Fucking sick of them. Wind instruments too. So fucking sick of them. Way overused. There was a period in the last 300 years where you couldn't get away from them.
Actually, come to think of it, the real problem is musical notes. Once we get out from under the oppressive tyranny of musical notes we will be free.
And your favorite percussion instrument sucks too.
posted by eyeballkid at 9:11 AM on May 3, 2011 [5 favorites]
yerfatma: “I thought you were joking at first.”
I might have been. I can't really tell. I was at least half-serious.
“As I get older, I get more interested in what moves my ass, rather than my head.”
I don't really understand. Are you actually saying that The Hold Steady makes you want to dance? I've tried dancing to that kind of music; it seems difficult. All you can do is bounce. I guess maybe you're talking about charisma, or swing, or soul, something like that. Which I can grok, even if I don't see it in The Hold Steady myself.
“I appreciate (what I consider) authenticity: not kids making sure to wear flannel and jeans and dig up classic instruments, but people who make music because they absolutely have to play music or they will explode. I don't care what they use to create that music, I just want more of it.”
That's an interesting trope – the notion that some people must make music, that it's a compunction for them. As a musician, it seems odd to me, but maybe that's because most of my experience stems from the jazz tradition, where musicianship is a spiritual discipline rather than a compunction (at least most of the time.)
“What I absolutely cannot stand nowadays are these insufferable twits who sound apologetic about making music, who sing through their goddamn face because it's not cool to care or to act like something is important to me and then they get a giant goddamn fanbase of kids who don't know what the fuck to care about so this must be important because I read on the blog of a guy who read on a blog of a guy who . . . ad infinitum. I'd rather have one Hold Steady song than the entire catalog of Sufjan Stevens, Animal Collective, et al.”
I've never really dug the sound of The Hold Steady, the Springsteen grit and pubrock aesthetic. But lyrically they are heartening (that's how I think I can put it) – an actually intelligent bridge to the past, an attempt to draw a continuance of the indie tradition of the 80s into today combined with some interesting extensions of that tradition in different directions.
And, well, yeah. I don't much enjoy Sufjan Stevens or Animal Collective either, but that's probably because I like loud music and hate coy pretense.
On the other hand, I've been listening to the new Robag Wruhme album all day. It might be the best disk of the year for me, even better than that Nicolas Jaar record.
posted by koeselitz at 9:32 AM on May 3, 2011
I might have been. I can't really tell. I was at least half-serious.
“As I get older, I get more interested in what moves my ass, rather than my head.”
I don't really understand. Are you actually saying that The Hold Steady makes you want to dance? I've tried dancing to that kind of music; it seems difficult. All you can do is bounce. I guess maybe you're talking about charisma, or swing, or soul, something like that. Which I can grok, even if I don't see it in The Hold Steady myself.
“I appreciate (what I consider) authenticity: not kids making sure to wear flannel and jeans and dig up classic instruments, but people who make music because they absolutely have to play music or they will explode. I don't care what they use to create that music, I just want more of it.”
That's an interesting trope – the notion that some people must make music, that it's a compunction for them. As a musician, it seems odd to me, but maybe that's because most of my experience stems from the jazz tradition, where musicianship is a spiritual discipline rather than a compunction (at least most of the time.)
“What I absolutely cannot stand nowadays are these insufferable twits who sound apologetic about making music, who sing through their goddamn face because it's not cool to care or to act like something is important to me and then they get a giant goddamn fanbase of kids who don't know what the fuck to care about so this must be important because I read on the blog of a guy who read on a blog of a guy who . . . ad infinitum. I'd rather have one Hold Steady song than the entire catalog of Sufjan Stevens, Animal Collective, et al.”
I've never really dug the sound of The Hold Steady, the Springsteen grit and pubrock aesthetic. But lyrically they are heartening (that's how I think I can put it) – an actually intelligent bridge to the past, an attempt to draw a continuance of the indie tradition of the 80s into today combined with some interesting extensions of that tradition in different directions.
And, well, yeah. I don't much enjoy Sufjan Stevens or Animal Collective either, but that's probably because I like loud music and hate coy pretense.
On the other hand, I've been listening to the new Robag Wruhme album all day. It might be the best disk of the year for me, even better than that Nicolas Jaar record.
posted by koeselitz at 9:32 AM on May 3, 2011
ugh.
posted by Think_Long at 10:00 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Think_Long at 10:00 AM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
After an explosion of praise for them, I tried to like The Hold Steady and failed.
I don't go around looking for new bands to disappoint me. What I want is something that makes me go "oh yeah, this is awesome, I am going to listen to it five more times in a row and then I am going to buy copies for all of my friends." That usually does not happen so I just move on to the next thing. I was briefly puzzled, though, before moving on, by the approval rating of The Hold Steady. Is there a song I'm missing that will be the gateway to appreciation?
posted by adipocere at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2011
I don't go around looking for new bands to disappoint me. What I want is something that makes me go "oh yeah, this is awesome, I am going to listen to it five more times in a row and then I am going to buy copies for all of my friends." That usually does not happen so I just move on to the next thing. I was briefly puzzled, though, before moving on, by the approval rating of The Hold Steady. Is there a song I'm missing that will be the gateway to appreciation?
posted by adipocere at 10:59 AM on May 3, 2011
Which album did you listen to? Boys and Girls in America is probably the best one to start with.
posted by silby at 1:16 PM on May 3, 2011
posted by silby at 1:16 PM on May 3, 2011
What I want is something that makes me go "oh yeah, this is awesome, I am going to listen to it five more times in a row and then I am going to buy copies for all of my friends."
Wow, epically high standards. I'm not sure The Hold Steady or anyone else will ever meet that criteria.
The song that really brought me in was "Your Little Hoodrat Friend" because it just totally sounded like some extra-honest kinda poppy post-punk. The refrain is so simple and if it's all you hear it's easy to write the song off, but if you listen for the cultural allusions -- sometimes based in catholic upbringings, drugs, the lives of traveller kids and music junkies -- the text is rich and about people like I knew and know and grew up with and was.
When Finn says "Her claddagh ring was pointed at the people" the meaning is steep: she comes from a certain cultural background, she's free from any attachment (based on the point of the claddagh ring) but she is still tied to her upbringing. This level of reference and lyrical depth is not present in this line alone, it's available throughout the THS discography.
In addition to exterior cultural references the level of intertextual reference in THS' discography is ever present. I could get more detailed. I could tell you all about the concealed themes of IV drug use throughout the THS discography, some exceedingly subtle and some far less so, the concealed ballads dedicated to places and feelings most people will never know. I could tell you about the deliberate layers of meaning in Finn's use of the word "banging" or getting "cornered in the kitchen" and on and on and on, but why should I?
Why should I turn you on? I listened to all the albums. I charted the lives of Finn's characters and I fought to recognize them through allusions to their mannerisms, paraphrases of their quotes and sought to find them in every story Finn tells (and they're there!) I recognized the landmarks because I went through some small part of the drama Finn writes too.
When I heard that first song on some podcast I felt the connection and I fell in love.
And while it was a risky move to include so many Lifter Puller references in "Heaven is Whenever", I got it because I knew those songs and those characters from before.
As long as at least a couple people get it and see the connections you're making in your work it makes it all worth it so I can't help but love Finn, THS and Lifter Puller.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 1:16 PM on May 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Wow, epically high standards. I'm not sure The Hold Steady or anyone else will ever meet that criteria.
The song that really brought me in was "Your Little Hoodrat Friend" because it just totally sounded like some extra-honest kinda poppy post-punk. The refrain is so simple and if it's all you hear it's easy to write the song off, but if you listen for the cultural allusions -- sometimes based in catholic upbringings, drugs, the lives of traveller kids and music junkies -- the text is rich and about people like I knew and know and grew up with and was.
When Finn says "Her claddagh ring was pointed at the people" the meaning is steep: she comes from a certain cultural background, she's free from any attachment (based on the point of the claddagh ring) but she is still tied to her upbringing. This level of reference and lyrical depth is not present in this line alone, it's available throughout the THS discography.
In addition to exterior cultural references the level of intertextual reference in THS' discography is ever present. I could get more detailed. I could tell you all about the concealed themes of IV drug use throughout the THS discography, some exceedingly subtle and some far less so, the concealed ballads dedicated to places and feelings most people will never know. I could tell you about the deliberate layers of meaning in Finn's use of the word "banging" or getting "cornered in the kitchen" and on and on and on, but why should I?
Why should I turn you on? I listened to all the albums. I charted the lives of Finn's characters and I fought to recognize them through allusions to their mannerisms, paraphrases of their quotes and sought to find them in every story Finn tells (and they're there!) I recognized the landmarks because I went through some small part of the drama Finn writes too.
When I heard that first song on some podcast I felt the connection and I fell in love.
And while it was a risky move to include so many Lifter Puller references in "Heaven is Whenever", I got it because I knew those songs and those characters from before.
As long as at least a couple people get it and see the connections you're making in your work it makes it all worth it so I can't help but love Finn, THS and Lifter Puller.
posted by Matt Oneiros at 1:16 PM on May 3, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh, no, that was poorly expressed on my part. I only meant that I was not one of those people who go about looking for albums to elicit contempt. I would prefer albums which made me giddy, but still purchase those which fall far short of that. Not a standard, although it does get met.
On a lark, at a Headlights show, I bought an Evangelicals CD because they were very nice about fetching up a Headlights CD. Many bands, even when touring together, just will not touch the other's band's merchandise, but they were quite friendly about it, so I asked for one of their CDs. They mentioned that they saw me just walk in and that I hadn't heard them play. I just shrugged, mumbled something about supporting bands, and bought it anyway.
A couple of months later, I am looking for something to listen to in the car, so I do the arm scoop into the Box of CDs I Ought To Try Or, Less Appealingly, Try Again. The first thirty seconds sounded like epic noodling, in the midst of a run of CDs which were noodling about and decided I was too cranky to give it a chance, so back into the box it went. I come into work on a Labor Day weekend on a surprise project I thought needed developing and I dropped the CD in again, then settled in to code.
And then something magical happened around the third pass. I realized that I was not in possession of a compact disc containing tracks but that I was hearing a whole concept album, arranged just so, with a psychedelic, languid production which perfectly matched the lyrics. Three days and about forty passes through the album later, I am a Fan. Two or three weeks later, one of their shows is listed as a tiny, tiny venue without so much as a stage. I buy a stack of copies of The Evening Descends and have been passing them out ever since.
I feel that way about less than twenty albums but it does happen.
Sometimes, I think bands need a "Start Here" roadmap to their music. I guess what I am asking is, where do I start with the Hold Steady? What after that?
posted by adipocere at 2:08 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
On a lark, at a Headlights show, I bought an Evangelicals CD because they were very nice about fetching up a Headlights CD. Many bands, even when touring together, just will not touch the other's band's merchandise, but they were quite friendly about it, so I asked for one of their CDs. They mentioned that they saw me just walk in and that I hadn't heard them play. I just shrugged, mumbled something about supporting bands, and bought it anyway.
A couple of months later, I am looking for something to listen to in the car, so I do the arm scoop into the Box of CDs I Ought To Try Or, Less Appealingly, Try Again. The first thirty seconds sounded like epic noodling, in the midst of a run of CDs which were noodling about and decided I was too cranky to give it a chance, so back into the box it went. I come into work on a Labor Day weekend on a surprise project I thought needed developing and I dropped the CD in again, then settled in to code.
And then something magical happened around the third pass. I realized that I was not in possession of a compact disc containing tracks but that I was hearing a whole concept album, arranged just so, with a psychedelic, languid production which perfectly matched the lyrics. Three days and about forty passes through the album later, I am a Fan. Two or three weeks later, one of their shows is listed as a tiny, tiny venue without so much as a stage. I buy a stack of copies of The Evening Descends and have been passing them out ever since.
I feel that way about less than twenty albums but it does happen.
Sometimes, I think bands need a "Start Here" roadmap to their music. I guess what I am asking is, where do I start with the Hold Steady? What after that?
posted by adipocere at 2:08 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
jonmc: I've met him. He's a nice guy. And Fargo Rock City was a good book.
That's funny, because ever since I started reading Metafilter I've thought of Klosterman as a second-rate jonmc.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:51 PM on May 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
That's funny, because ever since I started reading Metafilter I've thought of Klosterman as a second-rate jonmc.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:51 PM on May 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
Amen. That goes double for electric guitars. Guitars are a stupid, pointless, played-out instrument on which almost no creativity is possible at this point. The fact that people are still aping this nostalgic brand of gravelly-voiced rockishness – it's just sad at this point. We've fallen in love with our parents' music in the absolute worst way. We need something new.
If the AV Club is right you may get your wish. But seriously koeselitz, why do you keep commenting in rock and roll threads? I really dislike electronic music, so I stay out of dance and electro threads. What do you gain by telling us our favorite music sucks?
Guitar music - rock and roll - heals and sustains me. I go to about 3 concerts a week, all guitar based. I'm not going to change that because of a message board comment.
Sometimes, I think bands need a "Start Here" roadmap to their music. I guess what I am asking is, where do I start with the Hold Steady? What after that?
I'd start with Separation Sunday. Not only is it, IMHO, their best album but after a few listens you will realize that you are 'hearing a whole concept album, arranged just so' like you did with Evangelicals. The storyline is the easiest to follow of all their albums, and 'Little Hoodrat Friend' is a perfect jumping off point. After that either go back to Almost Killed Me or forward to Boys and Girls in America.
And LiB, I don't mean my criticisms as a "your fave band sucks" but more like 2 people disagreeing on a movie they have just seen. For example, you made a Replacements post last week. Pick any of their songs at random, look at the lyrics and show me one cliched line. It's difficult innit? Now listen to the Finn song above and notice that every single line is just one hackneyed rock cliche after another. He sounds like a 3rd rate Elvis Costello impersonator. That's why the Replacements still sound fresh 30 years later and one listen is enough for a song like this.
Guess how I got into the Replacements. But seriously, what lines of Craig's are cliched? He's one of the most inventive lyricists I know, and I'd give my left hand to come up with lines like "she crashed into the easter mass with her hair done up in broken glass. she was limping left on broken heels. when she said father can i tell your congregation how a resurrection really feels?" or even something as simple and true as 'Certain songs they get so scratched into your soul'.
Outside of the lyrics the band is just a pure, joyous ROCK act. I saw them at a festival right before Airbourne, a group of AC/DC imitators. During THS set the pit was INSANE - people shoving, crowd surfing, grabbing each other, singing along and just getting sweaty and intense. Airbourne couldn't begin to match it.
I realize I'm not the most objective judge of THS quality, but either see them live or give them a few proper listens and you might get converted.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:24 PM on May 3, 2011 [2 favorites]
if anyone is reading this because they're a local, Magnet just posted Minneapolis: The Rise And Fall Of The ’80s Scene
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:45 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 4:45 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Lovecraft In Brooklyn: “But seriously koeselitz, why do you keep commenting in rock and roll threads? I really dislike electronic music, so I s tay out of dance and electro threads. What do you gain by telling us our favorite music sucks? Guitar music - rock and roll - heals and sustains me. I go to about 3 concerts a week, all guitar based. I'm not going to change that because of a message board comment.”
Aww, I just like talking about music, and I tend to use silly jumping-off points. I'm sorry, I'm not just trying to say "your favorite music sucks" – I pointedly tried to avoid that, and said above that I find The Hold Steady's music heartening.
And I really do. I dig guitar music. The Hold Steady talks about a lot of the things I love – I grew up with 7 Seconds and Youth of Today and Joe Strummer and all that, those things still matter to me. I'm known for saying that The Fall is my favorite band ever, and they've always had guitars. I saw Melt Banana ten years ago in Albuquerque, NM, and it changed my life; Agata is without doubt the most stunning and incredible guitar player I've ever witnessed. A year later, I saw Pere Ubu at the same place, and it scared the crap out of me and changed my life all over again.
Hell, I own three guitars. I've played the guitar since I was twelve. So I guess I'm not saying I loathe guitar music. If anything, I just mean that I can't think of anything to do on a guitar that's new. And that bothers me.
Even if I'm at a point in my life when I feel like I'm skeptical about rock music, I can appreciate that The Hold Steady do something that's honest. That's how they stand out, as far as I can tell – they are honest, and they aren't ironic or mawkish or silly, they mean what they say. And that's kind of fantastic in this day and age.
I just, well, like to talk to people about the music they love. And I like hearing people tell me why they love it. So, yeah, I sometimes challenge people to do so. I hope it's clear it isn't personal; or rather it's something I'm after personally, but it isn't an insult.
posted by koeselitz at 7:58 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Aww, I just like talking about music, and I tend to use silly jumping-off points. I'm sorry, I'm not just trying to say "your favorite music sucks" – I pointedly tried to avoid that, and said above that I find The Hold Steady's music heartening.
And I really do. I dig guitar music. The Hold Steady talks about a lot of the things I love – I grew up with 7 Seconds and Youth of Today and Joe Strummer and all that, those things still matter to me. I'm known for saying that The Fall is my favorite band ever, and they've always had guitars. I saw Melt Banana ten years ago in Albuquerque, NM, and it changed my life; Agata is without doubt the most stunning and incredible guitar player I've ever witnessed. A year later, I saw Pere Ubu at the same place, and it scared the crap out of me and changed my life all over again.
Hell, I own three guitars. I've played the guitar since I was twelve. So I guess I'm not saying I loathe guitar music. If anything, I just mean that I can't think of anything to do on a guitar that's new. And that bothers me.
Even if I'm at a point in my life when I feel like I'm skeptical about rock music, I can appreciate that The Hold Steady do something that's honest. That's how they stand out, as far as I can tell – they are honest, and they aren't ironic or mawkish or silly, they mean what they say. And that's kind of fantastic in this day and age.
I just, well, like to talk to people about the music they love. And I like hearing people tell me why they love it. So, yeah, I sometimes challenge people to do so. I hope it's clear it isn't personal; or rather it's something I'm after personally, but it isn't an insult.
posted by koeselitz at 7:58 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Thanks koeselitz.
Even if I'm at a point in my life when I feel like I'm skeptical about rock music, I can appreciate that The Hold Steady do something that's honest. That's how they stand out, as far as I can tell – they are honest, and they aren't ironic or mawkish or silly, they mean what they say. And that's kind of fantastic in this day and age.
Yeah, this is the thing about THS that kinda changed how I look at music and life, as cheesy as that sounds. That heart on your sleeve earnestness is made me listen to different music and try to live life in a more open, positive way. I probably don't always succeed, but it's something
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:14 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Even if I'm at a point in my life when I feel like I'm skeptical about rock music, I can appreciate that The Hold Steady do something that's honest. That's how they stand out, as far as I can tell – they are honest, and they aren't ironic or mawkish or silly, they mean what they say. And that's kind of fantastic in this day and age.
Yeah, this is the thing about THS that kinda changed how I look at music and life, as cheesy as that sounds. That heart on your sleeve earnestness is made me listen to different music and try to live life in a more open, positive way. I probably don't always succeed, but it's something
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:14 PM on May 3, 2011 [1 favorite]
Good answer LiB :)
posted by puny human at 8:39 PM on May 3, 2011
posted by puny human at 8:39 PM on May 3, 2011
I can appreciate that The Hold Steady do something that's honest
Yeah, that's pretty much it. To be honest, I think I probably stumbled onto them (well, LFTRPLLR and then THS) at the right age/ time in my life*. Because Craig Finn and The Hold Steady convinced me that I was right to let go of that layer of ironic distance we were all about back then, sort of The Letterman Generation where you'd sit around and bust each other's balls if anyone dared to suggest something was worthy of being liked or dared to be even a little bit vulnerable for a second. I'd be the last person in the world to say I grew up, but I got sick of pretending not to care and worrying about what anyone else thinks; to answer a question asked above, I don't necessarily think The Hold Steady is great music to dance to, but it never occurred to me to try when I was at their show: I was too busy jumping up and down along with the rest of the people at the revival I was attending.
* I found out about Lifter Puller with the review of Festivals + Fiascos in The AV Club. In a very similar way, I discovered another love of my life, the Aubrey & Maturin novels, with Patrick O'Brian's obituary in The New York Times.
posted by yerfatma at 7:17 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that's pretty much it. To be honest, I think I probably stumbled onto them (well, LFTRPLLR and then THS) at the right age/ time in my life*. Because Craig Finn and The Hold Steady convinced me that I was right to let go of that layer of ironic distance we were all about back then, sort of The Letterman Generation where you'd sit around and bust each other's balls if anyone dared to suggest something was worthy of being liked or dared to be even a little bit vulnerable for a second. I'd be the last person in the world to say I grew up, but I got sick of pretending not to care and worrying about what anyone else thinks; to answer a question asked above, I don't necessarily think The Hold Steady is great music to dance to, but it never occurred to me to try when I was at their show: I was too busy jumping up and down along with the rest of the people at the revival I was attending.
* I found out about Lifter Puller with the review of Festivals + Fiascos in The AV Club. In a very similar way, I discovered another love of my life, the Aubrey & Maturin novels, with Patrick O'Brian's obituary in The New York Times.
posted by yerfatma at 7:17 AM on May 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
I, too, was at this show. I'm less than in love with Klosterman (I thought Fargo Rock City was a pretty good book, and it told a story a lot of us who grew up in the Midwest know really really well, but it wasn't amazing or anything), and I think John Moe (the host of Wits) is just okay, but I LOVED the three new Craig Finn songs, particularly the one that ended with "we wait in joyful hope..."
The band also did a cover of "Makes No Sense at All" by Husker Du that was oddly eerie and beautiful. I didn't expect that.
I've gotten to be friends with John Munson, who's playing bass next to Craig and puts the bands together for each Wits show. He was telling me that Craig is saying these are not and will not be songs for The Hold Steady. He's probably going to record them on his own and maybe (maybe) put out an EP with them. I'd love to see that.
After this Wits show, my buddy and I were waiting around to see if Munson wanted to go out drinking with us. Craig was just walking around the theater, chatting people up and saying hi to old friends. I asked if I could get a picture with him and we ended up chatting for a few minutes. He's a great guy.
posted by elmer benson at 7:26 PM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
The band also did a cover of "Makes No Sense at All" by Husker Du that was oddly eerie and beautiful. I didn't expect that.
I've gotten to be friends with John Munson, who's playing bass next to Craig and puts the bands together for each Wits show. He was telling me that Craig is saying these are not and will not be songs for The Hold Steady. He's probably going to record them on his own and maybe (maybe) put out an EP with them. I'd love to see that.
After this Wits show, my buddy and I were waiting around to see if Munson wanted to go out drinking with us. Craig was just walking around the theater, chatting people up and saying hi to old friends. I asked if I could get a picture with him and we ended up chatting for a few minutes. He's a great guy.
posted by elmer benson at 7:26 PM on May 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
He was telling me that Craig is saying these are not and will not be songs for The Hold Steady.
New Brokerdealer tracks? kidding
posted by yerfatma at 5:40 AM on May 5, 2011
New Brokerdealer tracks? kidding
posted by yerfatma at 5:40 AM on May 5, 2011
Songs up on the unofficial Hold Steady blog.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:24 PM on May 10, 2011
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 10:24 PM on May 10, 2011
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posted by mediocre at 10:45 PM on May 2, 2011 [7 favorites]