"Art, or Real, or Advertising?"
June 9, 2011 1:17 AM Subscribe
White Power Milk
"Many are drawn to White Power Milk for the comforting certainty that our milk is the purest available. But it's something more elusive, and difficult to put into words, that keeps our customers coming back. We create a select beverage that is not only more healthy for your body, but is culturally superior. Sure, the milk available at your local grocery store meets USDA government standards for quality, but these standards are set to a mere minimum of purity. You deserve the best."
twitter feed
Vice weighs in
Nate Hill's website
behind the scenes interview with a model/gargler
"Many are drawn to White Power Milk for the comforting certainty that our milk is the purest available. But it's something more elusive, and difficult to put into words, that keeps our customers coming back. We create a select beverage that is not only more healthy for your body, but is culturally superior. Sure, the milk available at your local grocery store meets USDA government standards for quality, but these standards are set to a mere minimum of purity. You deserve the best."
twitter feed
Vice weighs in
Nate Hill's website
behind the scenes interview with a model/gargler
They were on Groupon yesterday with a two-for-one with a Bonsai Kitten.
posted by phunniemee at 1:26 AM on June 9, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 1:26 AM on June 9, 2011 [11 favorites]
Omg, what is happening to that woman on the home page? It looks like she's choking on bleach.
posted by londonmark at 1:28 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by londonmark at 1:28 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
OK, so this has the feel of satire, but I can't tell what it is satirizing.
posted by Philosopher Dirtbike at 1:34 AM on June 9, 2011 [14 favorites]
posted by Philosopher Dirtbike at 1:34 AM on June 9, 2011 [14 favorites]
My wife already pre-gargles my milk for me. Strangers gargling my milk - EW!!
posted by Meatbomb at 1:39 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Meatbomb at 1:39 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Just...just read the Vice article.
posted by auralcoral at 1:41 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by auralcoral at 1:41 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
The catch is that you have to pay in Bitcoins.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:45 AM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:45 AM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
Meatbomb: "Strangers gargling my milk - EW!!"
But that's why some men go to prostitutes.
Sorry, that was kinda gross.
posted by bwg at 1:49 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
But that's why some men go to prostitutes.
Sorry, that was kinda gross.
posted by bwg at 1:49 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
The advertising guys behind Pace Picante Sauce's "Neeew York City?!?!?" campaign only scratched the surface.
posted by ShutterBun at 2:03 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ShutterBun at 2:03 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's no ManBeef.com.
posted by soundofsuburbia at 2:31 AM on June 9, 2011
posted by soundofsuburbia at 2:31 AM on June 9, 2011
Disappointingly, there is also a disclaimer on the website stating: Buyer understands that a portion of the information on this website has been fictionalized. Which, for an artist, must be a bit like writing, “This is not God himself, merely a deferential representation” in the margins of the Sistine Chapel ceiling.
That was funny; I even huffed milk out my nose, now a marketing opportunity!
posted by chavenet at 2:36 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
That was funny; I even huffed milk out my nose, now a marketing opportunity!
posted by chavenet at 2:36 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
OK, so this has the feel of satire, but I can't tell what it is satirizing.
take your pick, pretty much.
posted by dubold at 2:38 AM on June 9, 2011
take your pick, pretty much.
posted by dubold at 2:38 AM on June 9, 2011
Not to be some sort of contrarian, but I really prefer that my racially enhanced pre-gargled milk ounces come from under-age white girls. 13 or 14 would be ideal.
I mean for the kind of money they're asking, they'd better do it right.
posted by dgaicun at 2:42 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I mean for the kind of money they're asking, they'd better do it right.
posted by dgaicun at 2:42 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
First I looked for something to believe... I found nothing.
Then I looked for something to laugh at... I found nothing.
Then I looked for something to be outraged about... I found nothing.
Then I looked for a "meh"... but by then was too bored to bother.
posted by tomswift at 2:58 AM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
Then I looked for something to laugh at... I found nothing.
Then I looked for something to be outraged about... I found nothing.
Then I looked for a "meh"... but by then was too bored to bother.
posted by tomswift at 2:58 AM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
This just reminded me of the bizarre milk advert I keep seeing on buses. Which leads me to the irrefutable chain of logic: a) Ron is the only pureblood member of the main cast, b) they did call the head of the KKK the Grand Wizard, and c) oh my god Ron's a white supremacist.
posted by emmtee at 3:15 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by emmtee at 3:15 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Not to be some sort of contrarian, but I really prefer that my racially enhanced pre-gargled milk ounces come from under-age white girls. 13 or 14 would be ideal.
Speaking of which, did the "Prussian Blue" girls ever escape? They'd have to be at least 18 by now, wouldn't they?
posted by maxwelton at 3:34 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Speaking of which, did the "Prussian Blue" girls ever escape? They'd have to be at least 18 by now, wouldn't they?
posted by maxwelton at 3:34 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Er, by which I'm implying they could legally skedaddle from their asshole parents, not anything more nefarious than that.
posted by maxwelton at 3:35 AM on June 9, 2011
posted by maxwelton at 3:35 AM on June 9, 2011
Speaking of which, did the "Prussian Blue" girls ever escape? They'd have to be at least 18 by now, wouldn't they?
Wikipedia: As of early 2009, the band's website and MySpace page are no longer operational.
posted by scalefree at 3:40 AM on June 9, 2011
Wikipedia: As of early 2009, the band's website and MySpace page are no longer operational.
posted by scalefree at 3:40 AM on June 9, 2011
Disappointingly, there is also a disclaimer on the website stating: Buyer understands that a portion of the information on this website has been fictionalized. Which, for an artist, must be a bit like writing, “This is not God himself, merely a deferential representation” in the margins of the Sistine Chapel ceiling.I don't understand the problem with these things.
posted by LogicalDash at 3:44 AM on June 9, 2011
Then I looked for a "meh"... but by then was too bored to bother.
thanks for summoning the energy to share your thoughts!
posted by dubold at 3:46 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I guess it is better than Dirty Ears Milk.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:53 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 3:53 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
It looks like Georgie's going to have problems with her wisdom teeth.
posted by scalefree at 3:55 AM on June 9, 2011
posted by scalefree at 3:55 AM on June 9, 2011
Speaking of which, did the "Prussian Blue" girls ever escape? They'd have to be at least 18 by now, wouldn't they?
One of them is expecting her first child with her Ghanaian husband, and the other just came out.
Not really.
posted by acb at 3:59 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
One of them is expecting her first child with her Ghanaian husband, and the other just came out.
Not really.
posted by acb at 3:59 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
acb: One of them is expecting her first child with her Ghanaian husband, and the other just came out.
Oh, I so wanted that to be true!
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:02 AM on June 9, 2011
Oh, I so wanted that to be true!
posted by running order squabble fest at 4:02 AM on June 9, 2011
Die Uberbreakfast
R.I.P. Liquid Television
posted by Eideteker at 4:09 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
R.I.P. Liquid Television
posted by Eideteker at 4:09 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I really prefer that my racially enhanced pre-gargled milk ounces come from under-age white girls
There's an age limit for milk gargling?
posted by londonmark at 4:19 AM on June 9, 2011
There's an age limit for milk gargling?
posted by londonmark at 4:19 AM on June 9, 2011
Doesn't the racial purity processing strip out all micronutrients and fiber?
posted by condour75 at 4:47 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by condour75 at 4:47 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I thought it said "White Powder Milk," and was hoping for Cocaine Quik.
posted by jonmc at 5:00 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 5:00 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
The most recent photographs and information available of Lamb and Lynx for public viewing are the front pages of their "Facebook" profiles. Their profile photos change from time to time, but two of them stand out to me: Lamb's photo is of her with dyed reddish hair. She is looking into the camera holding in front of her face a green tinted glass ball, which magnifies her left eye. One of her favorite quotes is a lyric from an Eagles song. And under her "Likes and Interests" she added Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, an Indian man who "brought Transcendental Meditation to the West."posted by ennui.bz at 5:03 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Lynx's photo is of her outside, gazing upward into the clear Montana sky with a pair of sunglasses on, a dark jacket with the hood up and the snow and Pines in the background. She "likes" Buddha. And according to a page she created on blogger.com back in 2008, she enjoys the music of Jimi Hendrix, among many other things.
I hope Mr Hill accords the proper respect to his his artistic forebears.
posted by Chichibio at 5:04 AM on June 9, 2011
posted by Chichibio at 5:04 AM on June 9, 2011
So I wonder what you get when you buy the milk? Nothing? A piece of paper explaining this is ART? A photograph?
I saw this on Reddit last week. I clicked on the links. Went "Huh." and wondered who had the time to put in creating such web site and what was the purpose. It isn't particularly funny or witty or even thought provoking. I should have guessed the answer was, "an Artist."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:30 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I saw this on Reddit last week. I clicked on the links. Went "Huh." and wondered who had the time to put in creating such web site and what was the purpose. It isn't particularly funny or witty or even thought provoking. I should have guessed the answer was, "an Artist."
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:30 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
"thanks for summoning the energy to share your thoughts!"
You are so very much welcome!
note to self: only post if you are 100% in agreement and just L.O.V.E. the links in the FPP, Dubold has spoken thus.
posted by tomswift at 5:41 AM on June 9, 2011
You are so very much welcome!
note to self: only post if you are 100% in agreement and just L.O.V.E. the links in the FPP, Dubold has spoken thus.
posted by tomswift at 5:41 AM on June 9, 2011
note to self: only post if you are 100% in agreement and just L.O.V.E. the links in the FPP, Dubold has spoken thus.
I just thought anyone who takes the time to point out how little they care is making a joke, because if they truly didn't care at all, they wouldn't say anything.
By acknowledging your teensy-weensy bean of caring hidden in the burrito of disdain, I was letting you know the joke was seen and appreciated. Does that help?
posted by dubold at 5:52 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I just thought anyone who takes the time to point out how little they care is making a joke, because if they truly didn't care at all, they wouldn't say anything.
By acknowledging your teensy-weensy bean of caring hidden in the burrito of disdain, I was letting you know the joke was seen and appreciated. Does that help?
posted by dubold at 5:52 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think they got socio-economically confused, and this blunted any satire. In America, White Power is usually 'poor white trash' (hunh, I don't feel bad using that term in this case). But the graphics are upscale, the kind favored by people who like to pay $450 for a T-shirt. Meanwhile, having someone else gargle your milk appeals to the gnostic hipster crowd, who prefer an edgier look. It's just a socio-economic mess.
posted by benito.strauss at 5:57 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by benito.strauss at 5:57 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
"By acknowledging your teensy-weensy bean of caring hidden in the burrito of disdain..."
Fuck the chicks gargling your milk, man, now we've got burritos made from pure emotion!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:10 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Fuck the chicks gargling your milk, man, now we've got burritos made from pure emotion!
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 6:10 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Heh. One of the models is a close friend of mine. Her "bio" is completely fictional.
posted by oinopaponton at 6:13 AM on June 9, 2011
posted by oinopaponton at 6:13 AM on June 9, 2011
That was a lot more arousing that I was expecting it to be…
posted by public at 6:15 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by public at 6:15 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
First I thought, "I am not in on this joke." Then, I thought, "Is there a joke to be in on?" Then I got bored.
posted by Rudy Gerner at 6:18 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by Rudy Gerner at 6:18 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I saw this on Reddit last week. I clicked on the links. Went "Huh." and wondered who had the time to put in creating such web site and what was the purpose. It isn't particularly funny or witty or even thought provoking. I should have guessed the answer was, "an Artist."
"Artist," he said with a Goebbelsian sneer.
posted by TheRedArmy at 6:24 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
"Artist," he said with a Goebbelsian sneer.
posted by TheRedArmy at 6:24 AM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
people who like to pay $450 for a T-shirt
I guess I should have expected that such people exist, but really?
posted by notashroom at 6:25 AM on June 9, 2011
I guess I should have expected that such people exist, but really?
posted by notashroom at 6:25 AM on June 9, 2011
Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Oxford...
With a degree from a top-tier school, you too can make your living off the internet gargling milk for strangers!
"Lookit me, ma! I'm paying my student loans back!"
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:26 AM on June 9, 2011
With a degree from a top-tier school, you too can make your living off the internet gargling milk for strangers!
"Lookit me, ma! I'm paying my student loans back!"
posted by Capt. Renault at 6:26 AM on June 9, 2011
Speaking of which, did the "Prussian Blue" girls ever escape? They'd have to be at least 18 by now, wouldn't they?
I found this Jezebel post about them from 2010 that suggests they're out of the white power business:
I found this Jezebel post about them from 2010 that suggests they're out of the white power business:
Although Lynx and Lamb Gaede's horrifying White Power stage-mother (and matchmaker!) April Gaede, won custody of her two daughters, the twins are listed on Facebook under their father's name, Lingelser. This could, of course, not mean anything much, but it should be noted that their father has publicly disowned all White Power sympathies and accused their mother of "brainwashing" the twins with hateful propaganda.posted by Rory Marinich at 6:56 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
...and some quick Googling finds this blog of creation myths and a GoodReads profile (which I'm not linking) that opens with a quote from Andy Warhol: "Being born is like being kidnapped. And then sold into slavery."
posted by Rory Marinich at 6:59 AM on June 9, 2011
posted by Rory Marinich at 6:59 AM on June 9, 2011
Upon reviewing this site, and the associated links, two things come to mind:
1. What is this
2. I don't even
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:08 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
1. What is this
2. I don't even
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 7:08 AM on June 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
I think they got socio-economically confused, and this blunted any satire. In America, White Power is usually 'poor white trash' (hunh, I don't feel bad using that term in this case). But the graphics are upscale...
So, you would rather have your milk gargled by the faces of meth?
posted by ennui.bz at 7:18 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
So, you would rather have your milk gargled by the faces of meth?
posted by ennui.bz at 7:18 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Rory Marinich: " I found this Jezebel post about them from 2010 that suggests they're out of the white power business: "
Thanks for posting that article. Very informative.
posted by zarq at 7:33 AM on June 9, 2011
Thanks for posting that article. Very informative.
posted by zarq at 7:33 AM on June 9, 2011
So I wonder what you get when you buy the milk? Nothing? A piece of paper explaining this is ART? A photograph?
A bottle of milk that's been gargled by a hipster, I assume. There's a disclaimer to the effect that the biographies are fictitious - so you'll get to be part of the art gag, essentially, by getting a plastic bottle of undrinkable spitty milk. The terms and conditions also make clear that the "white power milk" is not for human consumption.
I can see what he's doing, here - it's about the way American society fetishizes youth, wealth and whiteness both sexually and non-sexually - but I don't know if it really needs to be done.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:41 AM on June 9, 2011
A bottle of milk that's been gargled by a hipster, I assume. There's a disclaimer to the effect that the biographies are fictitious - so you'll get to be part of the art gag, essentially, by getting a plastic bottle of undrinkable spitty milk. The terms and conditions also make clear that the "white power milk" is not for human consumption.
I can see what he's doing, here - it's about the way American society fetishizes youth, wealth and whiteness both sexually and non-sexually - but I don't know if it really needs to be done.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:41 AM on June 9, 2011
Oh dear. I had never heard of these Prussian Blue kids before. So I followed the link at work.
My boss is an Orthodox Jewish woman. I'm in for the day because this is a holiday.
Shit.
Metafilter is, indeed, NSFW. The White Power Milk stuff is more vague, and obviously satire. But my day is just....I'm kinda sad that some people really think this way, and more sad that other people think it's funny.
posted by bilabial at 8:29 AM on June 9, 2011
My boss is an Orthodox Jewish woman. I'm in for the day because this is a holiday.
Shit.
Metafilter is, indeed, NSFW. The White Power Milk stuff is more vague, and obviously satire. But my day is just....I'm kinda sad that some people really think this way, and more sad that other people think it's funny.
posted by bilabial at 8:29 AM on June 9, 2011
So, you would rather have your milk gargled by the faces of meth?
Yep, those are the kinds of faces I associate with "White Power". Which is why it's confused.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:52 AM on June 9, 2011
Yep, those are the kinds of faces I associate with "White Power". Which is why it's confused.
posted by benito.strauss at 8:52 AM on June 9, 2011
Oh Brooklyn art collectives, you are so adorable.
posted by Ad hominem at 9:16 AM on June 9, 2011
posted by Ad hominem at 9:16 AM on June 9, 2011
Pointless concept + meaninglessly controversial name = double dumb.
posted by nanojath at 9:18 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by nanojath at 9:18 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
people who like to pay $450 for a T-shirt
I guess I should have expected that such people exist, but really?
Well, I guessed at that number, but you made me curious. Best I could find was this. I'm sure if I lived in NYC I could find one at $450.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:36 AM on June 9, 2011
I guess I should have expected that such people exist, but really?
Well, I guessed at that number, but you made me curious. Best I could find was this. I'm sure if I lived in NYC I could find one at $450.
posted by benito.strauss at 9:36 AM on June 9, 2011
benito.strauss- You don't have to live in New York! Here ya go. It's on sale!
FWIW, Lynx Lingelser has an account on goodreads.com, which includes this quote:
"Being born is like being kidnapped. And then sold into slavery." — Andy Warhol
posted by evidenceofabsence at 10:06 AM on June 9, 2011
FWIW, Lynx Lingelser has an account on goodreads.com, which includes this quote:
"Being born is like being kidnapped. And then sold into slavery." — Andy Warhol
posted by evidenceofabsence at 10:06 AM on June 9, 2011
$600? You know what I could get for that?
Yes! 60cl of milk that a hipster had gargled for 10-15 seconds!
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:23 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes! 60cl of milk that a hipster had gargled for 10-15 seconds!
posted by running order squabble fest at 10:23 AM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I saw this on Reddit last week. I clicked on the links. Went "Huh." and wondered who had the time to put in creating such web site and what was the purpose. It isn't particularly funny or witty or even thought provoking. I should have guessed the answer was, "an Artist."
I saw lots of analogous comments just now. I read them. Went "Huh." and wondered why someone who didn't care in the first place had time to put into talking about something they admit they don't understand. It's particularly boorish to be proud that you're too lazy to extract meaning from someone's work. i should have guessed the answer was, "a MeFite in an art thread."
Seriously, it's not even that obtuse. The interview link leads you by the hand into the overarching, and really pretty interesting idea. What's the difference between racism and the cultural fetishization of beautiful people? Why do we go through such extreme conceptual gymnastics to make one or the other seem okay to ourselves? Are they the same kinds of gymnastics?
Oh wait. No. It was made by a young person in New York. I bet he's a hipster. Must be meaningless.
posted by cmoj at 11:01 AM on June 9, 2011
I saw lots of analogous comments just now. I read them. Went "Huh." and wondered why someone who didn't care in the first place had time to put into talking about something they admit they don't understand. It's particularly boorish to be proud that you're too lazy to extract meaning from someone's work. i should have guessed the answer was, "a MeFite in an art thread."
Seriously, it's not even that obtuse. The interview link leads you by the hand into the overarching, and really pretty interesting idea. What's the difference between racism and the cultural fetishization of beautiful people? Why do we go through such extreme conceptual gymnastics to make one or the other seem okay to ourselves? Are they the same kinds of gymnastics?
Oh wait. No. It was made by a young person in New York. I bet he's a hipster. Must be meaningless.
posted by cmoj at 11:01 AM on June 9, 2011
cmoj, a question. Can art ever fail?
posted by benito.strauss at 11:52 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by benito.strauss at 11:52 AM on June 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
Black Panther Lemonade: A refresher, or the refresherest?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:15 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:15 PM on June 9, 2011
What is there to say about this even? I find it rather funny. It's just bizarre -- offensive on multiple orthogonal levels if it were real. Since it's fake, though, it's funny.
posted by delmoi at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 12:18 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
While this is technically Safe For Work, I really shudder at the thought of having to explain it to coworkers.
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:25 PM on June 9, 2011
posted by Stagger Lee at 12:25 PM on June 9, 2011
My immediate reaction, as I think most people's would be, is, "Yeah, of course." But, then... fail at what? Functionally and personally I say that art can fail if it produces no reaction at all.
But try thinking about it this way: Thomas Kinkade sucks, right? I agree, but I also think that why he sucks and what his success means are really interesting to think about. He's like a non-self-aware Tim & Eric. The interesting thing is what's missing. So, even if you think art has failed, why were you interested enough to announce it? What made it different from the drawings of cat genitalia that you looked at, then made a sandwich and forgot about?
Sorry I tend to drip with snark when I react to these things. I'd rather sound like an asshole than a half-baked guru and I don't know how go in-between in text.
posted by cmoj at 12:33 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
But try thinking about it this way: Thomas Kinkade sucks, right? I agree, but I also think that why he sucks and what his success means are really interesting to think about. He's like a non-self-aware Tim & Eric. The interesting thing is what's missing. So, even if you think art has failed, why were you interested enough to announce it? What made it different from the drawings of cat genitalia that you looked at, then made a sandwich and forgot about?
Sorry I tend to drip with snark when I react to these things. I'd rather sound like an asshole than a half-baked guru and I don't know how go in-between in text.
posted by cmoj at 12:33 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
This project really felt like it was trying to say something. Unlike the drawings of cat genitalia, which usually just want to say "I like cat genitalia" and "Hey, look at these nice cat genitalia".
And I think Thomas Kinkade isn't a failure. (Well, if Thomas Kinkade were sincere, which is looking less and less to be the case.) Let's just say his paintings succeed, artistically. (They fail as an investment.) They want to make people think about how nice it is to contemplate going in to the nice warm house of a friend on a cold winter day. And it works for lots of people.
This art project is clearly tendentious. What exactly it is they are contending is not very clear. You say read the interview. I say if I have to read the interview to get what they're saying, then just print the interview.
Is the claim that this work of art dramatizes the points in the interview? They did a really lousy job manipulating signifiers, I claim. I didn't read the interview (often the MeFi discussion is more interesting than the thing posted), but I'm thinking the art work detracts from and confuses any point they wanted to make.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:05 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
And I think Thomas Kinkade isn't a failure. (Well, if Thomas Kinkade were sincere, which is looking less and less to be the case.) Let's just say his paintings succeed, artistically. (They fail as an investment.) They want to make people think about how nice it is to contemplate going in to the nice warm house of a friend on a cold winter day. And it works for lots of people.
This art project is clearly tendentious. What exactly it is they are contending is not very clear. You say read the interview. I say if I have to read the interview to get what they're saying, then just print the interview.
Is the claim that this work of art dramatizes the points in the interview? They did a really lousy job manipulating signifiers, I claim. I didn't read the interview (often the MeFi discussion is more interesting than the thing posted), but I'm thinking the art work detracts from and confuses any point they wanted to make.
posted by benito.strauss at 1:05 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I rather liked one of Nate Hill's previous performances, "Punch Me Panda". He would dress up in a panda suit, wear a chest protector, and provide boxing gloves. You got to punch the bejeezus out of him while he taunted you. I had him come to a friend's house so we could punch him and it was a good (if somewhat bizarre) time. Good workout, too.
posted by Fuego at 1:34 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Fuego at 1:34 PM on June 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
This art project is clearly tendentious. What exactly it is they are contending is not very clear. You say read the interview. I say if I have to read the interview to get what they're saying, then just print the interview.
yes, exactly - it's like last week's "Obeast" thing that way. If an art project is just weird and confusing until the artist explains the concept behind it, then they haven't really accomplished what they set out to do with the art work itself.
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:39 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
yes, exactly - it's like last week's "Obeast" thing that way. If an art project is just weird and confusing until the artist explains the concept behind it, then they haven't really accomplished what they set out to do with the art work itself.
posted by Mars Saxman at 1:39 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
The interview is a video of the artist interviewing one of the models. He asks her questions about race, privilege and beauty, which she's clearly not coached or prepped for. It's about as inconclusive as the website, but verbal if that's your thing. It's not a q&a with the artist if that's what you're thinking. It's definitely tendentious, but this is the kind of thing where the viewer would react even more violently against it if he were to just subtitle this whole thing, "Why Racism, Disgust, and Concepts of Feminine Beauty Are Not Easily Separable."
Kinkade's paintings do indeed do exactly what he intends them to do. In that he succeeds, but so do, say, cover artists for magazines. Deliberate, yes, but "successful art?" probably not. That said, we talk about him all the time.
posted by cmoj at 1:41 PM on June 9, 2011
Kinkade's paintings do indeed do exactly what he intends them to do. In that he succeeds, but so do, say, cover artists for magazines. Deliberate, yes, but "successful art?" probably not. That said, we talk about him all the time.
posted by cmoj at 1:41 PM on June 9, 2011
Typically, the creator of a work of art has some idea of what impact they want it to have. Success or failure of their art project is therefore measured by how well the impact matches their expectations. Failure in this respect is often more interesting than success.
The concept of "failure" only makes sense in a context where there is a purpose. You can make your art have a purpose. There have been lots of good and famous artists who have done so.
But the application of the word "art" depends mainly on the reaction of the audience. If you're in the audience, and you haven't heard of the artist before, and you don't intend to do any background research on them... you could try to guess what they were hoping to accomplish, and judge how successful they were based on that guess. But I'd recommend against.
posted by LogicalDash at 2:12 PM on June 9, 2011
The concept of "failure" only makes sense in a context where there is a purpose. You can make your art have a purpose. There have been lots of good and famous artists who have done so.
But the application of the word "art" depends mainly on the reaction of the audience. If you're in the audience, and you haven't heard of the artist before, and you don't intend to do any background research on them... you could try to guess what they were hoping to accomplish, and judge how successful they were based on that guess. But I'd recommend against.
posted by LogicalDash at 2:12 PM on June 9, 2011
... but so do, say, cover artists for magazines. Deliberate, yes, but "successful art?" probably not.
I'm guessing you don't like Andy Warhol, deliberate commercial artist extraordinaire.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:37 PM on June 9, 2011
I'm guessing you don't like Andy Warhol, deliberate commercial artist extraordinaire.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:37 PM on June 9, 2011
... you don't intend to do any background research on them.
There's a lot of art out there. I see art, and of course I'm going to make a judgment as whether or not it's worth my time to go into it further. This art project has left me wondering "Gargling, is that a thing now?".
I get that they want to say something about color, consumerism, and fluids. Interesting idea. But I don't think they combined them at all well. So by me it's pretty much failed art. which probably does make it more interesting.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:46 PM on June 9, 2011
There's a lot of art out there. I see art, and of course I'm going to make a judgment as whether or not it's worth my time to go into it further. This art project has left me wondering "Gargling, is that a thing now?".
I get that they want to say something about color, consumerism, and fluids. Interesting idea. But I don't think they combined them at all well. So by me it's pretty much failed art. which probably does make it more interesting.
posted by benito.strauss at 2:46 PM on June 9, 2011
The concept of "failure" only makes sense in a context where there is a purpose.
I think we're agreeing, but I'd like to add that this doesn't apply to really any of the nearly universally accepted greats. Picasso, Van Gogh, Matisse (okay sometimes), Pollack, Mondrian, etc. were purposeless in the same way that whistling or living is. On the other hand, Caravaggio, DaVinci, Van Eyck, and all those kinds of dudes did have explicit purposes.
I'm guessing you don't like Andy Warhol
First, I do like Warhol. Second, I do not see the connection between Warhol and some layout designer. Third, Warhol was not all soup cans by a long shot. Or all pop art for that matter. My favorites were those crude pornographic line drawings. Those were decidedly not commercial art, and wouldn't be described as pop, though they function as pop at basic level. Cave paintings were pop in the same way.
I'd also argue that the Factory was the piece, not the prints and stuff it made. The Factory was infinitely marketable, but not in itself salable. That's a whole other thing, though.
posted by cmoj at 3:52 PM on June 9, 2011
I think we're agreeing, but I'd like to add that this doesn't apply to really any of the nearly universally accepted greats. Picasso, Van Gogh, Matisse (okay sometimes), Pollack, Mondrian, etc. were purposeless in the same way that whistling or living is. On the other hand, Caravaggio, DaVinci, Van Eyck, and all those kinds of dudes did have explicit purposes.
I'm guessing you don't like Andy Warhol
First, I do like Warhol. Second, I do not see the connection between Warhol and some layout designer. Third, Warhol was not all soup cans by a long shot. Or all pop art for that matter. My favorites were those crude pornographic line drawings. Those were decidedly not commercial art, and wouldn't be described as pop, though they function as pop at basic level. Cave paintings were pop in the same way.
I'd also argue that the Factory was the piece, not the prints and stuff it made. The Factory was infinitely marketable, but not in itself salable. That's a whole other thing, though.
posted by cmoj at 3:52 PM on June 9, 2011
But try thinking about it this way: Thomas Kinkade sucks, right? I agree, but I also think that why he sucks and what his success means are really interesting to think about. He's like a non-self-aware Tim & Eric.
well, "sucks" is really a subjective criticism pretending to be an objective one. For me, art falls into two categories - art that does something for me, and art that doesn't. I don't pretend that the stuff that does something for me will be moving or appealing or thought-provoking for anyone else. When I encounter something that's not really all that moving for me, like this piece, I want to hear from people who DO get something out of it, especially if they can explain themselves well enough for me to get a handle on what's being shown and see it in a new light.
I don't know that knowing Thomas Kinkade's level of self-awareness would really change my opinion of his work, although if he looked like Jim Varney, wore alligator-skin boots and did all his work in a burned-out warehouse, I'd probably do a bit more contemplating next time I'm in my aunt's bathroom.
posted by dubold at 3:57 PM on June 9, 2011
well, "sucks" is really a subjective criticism pretending to be an objective one. For me, art falls into two categories - art that does something for me, and art that doesn't. I don't pretend that the stuff that does something for me will be moving or appealing or thought-provoking for anyone else. When I encounter something that's not really all that moving for me, like this piece, I want to hear from people who DO get something out of it, especially if they can explain themselves well enough for me to get a handle on what's being shown and see it in a new light.
I don't know that knowing Thomas Kinkade's level of self-awareness would really change my opinion of his work, although if he looked like Jim Varney, wore alligator-skin boots and did all his work in a burned-out warehouse, I'd probably do a bit more contemplating next time I'm in my aunt's bathroom.
posted by dubold at 3:57 PM on June 9, 2011
I'm not particularly for or against the statement(s) (if any) the artist is attempting to make. What I am for is more reasons for pics like the one on the homepage to exist on the internet.
Also, will this make my corn flakes taste better or worse?
posted by R_Kamidees at 4:23 PM on June 9, 2011
Also, will this make my corn flakes taste better or worse?
posted by R_Kamidees at 4:23 PM on June 9, 2011
I mentioned Warhol because he came from commercial art, graphical design. But it sounds like the work of his you enjoy are those that are furthest from commercial design.
I was reacting to your statement about "cover artists for magazines", which I took as dismissive -- "some layout designer". Someone else on the internet has already done the work for me; I'd consider any of these highly successful art. (It's coincidence that two of them involve Warhol. I think.)
posted by benito.strauss at 4:24 PM on June 9, 2011
I was reacting to your statement about "cover artists for magazines", which I took as dismissive -- "some layout designer". Someone else on the internet has already done the work for me; I'd consider any of these highly successful art. (It's coincidence that two of them involve Warhol. I think.)
posted by benito.strauss at 4:24 PM on June 9, 2011
I saw lots of analogous comments just now. I read them. Went "Huh." and wondered why someone who didn't care in the first place had time to put into talking about something they admit they don't understand.
This was big on Reddit last week and now it has a FPP on MetaFilter so I was curious to see what other people made of it. I was simply explaining that I found it to be a well made, beautiful web site that obviously took a lot of time. Now usually when you come across a site advertising a fake item it is humorous, but White Power Milk didn't strike me as particularly funny, nor was it all that thought provoking. Which is why I wondered who put in so much work for something that seems pointless.
Artists often spend lots of time making things that can strike the casual observer as pointless. You notice I said "casual." Had I walked into a gallery or a museum to find this installation, I would probably have spent some time trying to figure out what the artist was trying to convey, but in this case I was pointed to some web site without background and I am supposed to instantly figure out if it is real or satire or ? Sorry if I didn't put enough time and effort into unlocking the mysteries.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:50 PM on June 9, 2011
This was big on Reddit last week and now it has a FPP on MetaFilter so I was curious to see what other people made of it. I was simply explaining that I found it to be a well made, beautiful web site that obviously took a lot of time. Now usually when you come across a site advertising a fake item it is humorous, but White Power Milk didn't strike me as particularly funny, nor was it all that thought provoking. Which is why I wondered who put in so much work for something that seems pointless.
Artists often spend lots of time making things that can strike the casual observer as pointless. You notice I said "casual." Had I walked into a gallery or a museum to find this installation, I would probably have spent some time trying to figure out what the artist was trying to convey, but in this case I was pointed to some web site without background and I am supposed to instantly figure out if it is real or satire or ? Sorry if I didn't put enough time and effort into unlocking the mysteries.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:50 PM on June 9, 2011
well, "sucks" is really a subjective criticism pretending to be an objective one.
True, but in this case, I think "sucks" is as close to objective as it ever gets. I don't know of and seriously doubt the existence of anyone who takes art seriously and academically as part of their lives that thinks Kinkade has anything to say or contribute. On top of that, I should have said "ironic" instead of "self-aware" because I think that Kinkade IS self-aware and in it for the money, making him a cynical douchebag. And that's part of it. As you say, if he were some ultra sincere outsider, suddenly it'd be sort of interesting.
When I encounter something that's not really all that moving for me, like this piece, I want to hear from people who DO get something out of it, especially if they can explain themselves well enough for me to get a handle on what's being shown and see it in a new light.
I feel the same way and think this is the most useful attitude.
Which is why I wondered who put in so much work for something that seems pointless... Had I walked into a gallery or a museum to find this installation, I would probably have spent some time trying to figure out what the artist was trying to convey, but in this case I was pointed to some web site without background and I am supposed to instantly figure out if it is real or satire or ? Sorry if I didn't put enough time and effort into unlocking the mysteries.
It's not that someone doesn't get something or doesn't care to spend the time needed to unravel some particular piece that sets me off, it's the flippancy with which you say, "Oh it's by an artist. No wonder it's pointless."
There are lots of times where I look at something for a while and leave it, thinking, "I can tell there's something going on in there, but I can't tell what it is." Maybe it's just too dense, maybe I'm not the target or just plain not smart enough. It's not an indication that the artist is some charlatan and it's definitely not an indication that an entire population of creative individuals are worthy of dismissal.
posted by cmoj at 11:18 AM on June 10, 2011
True, but in this case, I think "sucks" is as close to objective as it ever gets. I don't know of and seriously doubt the existence of anyone who takes art seriously and academically as part of their lives that thinks Kinkade has anything to say or contribute. On top of that, I should have said "ironic" instead of "self-aware" because I think that Kinkade IS self-aware and in it for the money, making him a cynical douchebag. And that's part of it. As you say, if he were some ultra sincere outsider, suddenly it'd be sort of interesting.
When I encounter something that's not really all that moving for me, like this piece, I want to hear from people who DO get something out of it, especially if they can explain themselves well enough for me to get a handle on what's being shown and see it in a new light.
I feel the same way and think this is the most useful attitude.
Which is why I wondered who put in so much work for something that seems pointless... Had I walked into a gallery or a museum to find this installation, I would probably have spent some time trying to figure out what the artist was trying to convey, but in this case I was pointed to some web site without background and I am supposed to instantly figure out if it is real or satire or ? Sorry if I didn't put enough time and effort into unlocking the mysteries.
It's not that someone doesn't get something or doesn't care to spend the time needed to unravel some particular piece that sets me off, it's the flippancy with which you say, "Oh it's by an artist. No wonder it's pointless."
There are lots of times where I look at something for a while and leave it, thinking, "I can tell there's something going on in there, but I can't tell what it is." Maybe it's just too dense, maybe I'm not the target or just plain not smart enough. It's not an indication that the artist is some charlatan and it's definitely not an indication that an entire population of creative individuals are worthy of dismissal.
posted by cmoj at 11:18 AM on June 10, 2011
It's not that someone doesn't get something or doesn't care to spend the time needed to unravel some particular piece that sets me off, it's the flippancy with which you say, "Oh it's by an artist. No wonder it's pointless."
No. You have got it backwards. I most definitely did not say "It's by an artist. No wonder it is pointless." I would never say that because I have known some very good artists whose outpoint is far from pointless. I said I could not figure out who had the time and energy to make something that appeared pointless, and I should have guessed it was an artist.
I love art. I love the history of art. I spend a fair amount of time looking at art and thinking about art. I have known many artists. I have known many artists who throw something together and then sell it as conceptual art by using their personality and charm. I have also known many artists who labor mightily to produce something which seems inconsequential to the average person. Who else do you know who would spend hundreds of hours building a great big pile of rubble-- endlessly adding and subtracting-- and in the end try to convince people that it was more than just a pile of rubble, it was a STATEMENT, a STATEMENT that could have just as easily been made by upending the trashcan, but then they would have not been making ART.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:38 PM on June 10, 2011
No. You have got it backwards. I most definitely did not say "It's by an artist. No wonder it is pointless." I would never say that because I have known some very good artists whose outpoint is far from pointless. I said I could not figure out who had the time and energy to make something that appeared pointless, and I should have guessed it was an artist.
I love art. I love the history of art. I spend a fair amount of time looking at art and thinking about art. I have known many artists. I have known many artists who throw something together and then sell it as conceptual art by using their personality and charm. I have also known many artists who labor mightily to produce something which seems inconsequential to the average person. Who else do you know who would spend hundreds of hours building a great big pile of rubble-- endlessly adding and subtracting-- and in the end try to convince people that it was more than just a pile of rubble, it was a STATEMENT, a STATEMENT that could have just as easily been made by upending the trashcan, but then they would have not been making ART.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 1:38 PM on June 10, 2011
Since trying it, White Power Milk is the only thing I drink now.
posted by doomtop at 8:55 AM on June 11, 2011
posted by doomtop at 8:55 AM on June 11, 2011
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posted by dubold at 1:18 AM on June 9, 2011