Leichhardt Cat Curfew
June 9, 2011 11:24 PM Subscribe
Leichhardt, a suburb of Sydney, imposes a cat curfew at night in an effort to protect local wildlife, including ringtail and brushtail possums.
With over 1000 cat and dog attacks on wildlife in the Sydney region during 2010, Leichhardt Council encourages pet owners to keep their pets confined at night time. Leichhardt Municipal Council
A Balmain cat owner, Bec Jones, 22, was not sure she could get one of her two cats, Coco, to stay indoors.
''It's a cat personality thing, really. We've tried to keep her inside but she doesn't want to; she gets really agitated and is likely to have a bowel movement inside, which I guess we will have to sort out if we have to keep her in.'' Sydney Morning Herald
Favorited for the possum picture. And because it's a good idea. Cats fuck up the local environment.
she gets really agitated and is likely to have a bowel movement inside
Hmm. Maybe this is crazy talk, but how about a cat box?
posted by pracowity at 11:38 PM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
she gets really agitated and is likely to have a bowel movement inside
Hmm. Maybe this is crazy talk, but how about a cat box?
posted by pracowity at 11:38 PM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]
Good. Personally, I'd be all for a total ban on cats
Yeah, almost every cat I've met has scratched me. But people seem to like them.
I think this is for the wrong reasons, though. Should animals that are close to humans be given priority over natural animals? This is another prong in the anti-human agenda pushed by Australia's environmentalists.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:43 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, almost every cat I've met has scratched me. But people seem to like them.
I think this is for the wrong reasons, though. Should animals that are close to humans be given priority over natural animals? This is another prong in the anti-human agenda pushed by Australia's environmentalists.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 11:43 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I thought the whole bring-your-cats-in-at-night thing was for the safety of the cats?
Is the nocturnal wildlife at greater risk than the diurnal?
posted by fonetik at 11:48 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is the nocturnal wildlife at greater risk than the diurnal?
posted by fonetik at 11:48 PM on June 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is the nocturnal wildlife at greater risk than the diurnal?
This is particularly aimed at protecting a reintroduced colony of ringtail possums (nocturnal animals) that local cats have been shredding, but it would provide more general protection to other animals. If you bring cats in for the 8 to 12 hours you can't watch them (at night) and you maybe have half an eye on them during the day, they aren't going to kill as many other animals.
posted by pracowity at 11:56 PM on June 9, 2011
This is particularly aimed at protecting a reintroduced colony of ringtail possums (nocturnal animals) that local cats have been shredding, but it would provide more general protection to other animals. If you bring cats in for the 8 to 12 hours you can't watch them (at night) and you maybe have half an eye on them during the day, they aren't going to kill as many other animals.
posted by pracowity at 11:56 PM on June 9, 2011
Yes LiB, I do think native animals should be given priority over introduced & tamed species - it's not like the world is facing a shortage of domestic cats. As for "This is another prong in the anti-human agenda pushed by Australia's environmentalists", LOL.
posted by Wantok at 12:04 AM on June 10, 2011 [17 favorites]
posted by Wantok at 12:04 AM on June 10, 2011 [17 favorites]
My cat would hate that, but he'd just have to get used to it I suppose.
And there is a solution for 'indoor bowel movements'. It's called a litter tray...
posted by mathw at 12:05 AM on June 10, 2011
And there is a solution for 'indoor bowel movements'. It's called a litter tray...
posted by mathw at 12:05 AM on June 10, 2011
AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I tawt I taw a puddy-tat!
- possum
posted by gomichild at 12:06 AM on June 10, 2011
- possum
posted by gomichild at 12:06 AM on June 10, 2011
Many US cities already have leash laws that include cats.
Are you using the word "many" in the sense that there are more than 5, or in the sense that this is even remotely common.?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:06 AM on June 10, 2011
Are you using the word "many" in the sense that there are more than 5, or in the sense that this is even remotely common.?
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:06 AM on June 10, 2011
A cat curfew will never work. We've tried that here in the States with ugly results. Gangs of cats would hang out on street corners openly flaunting the law while wearing their colors on cat bandanas. The cops would drive by and just roll up their windows pretending they weren't there and any unlucky passers-by would be taunted by nasty meows and that's if you were lucky. If you weren't then they'd mark you for their territory.
posted by Poet_Lariat at 12:16 AM on June 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
posted by Poet_Lariat at 12:16 AM on June 10, 2011 [14 favorites]
There are a couple of new suburbs in Canberra where people are not be allowed to have outdoor cats at all. The only exception is if they build a cat-containing chicken wire run or similar. But no cats will be allowed free in the area. These suburbs are known as "cat containment zones", which I think sounds wonderfully sinister.
posted by lollusc at 12:42 AM on June 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 12:42 AM on June 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
That possum looks like a really cute Australian Pokemon creature!
posted by autoclavicle at 12:45 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by autoclavicle at 12:45 AM on June 10, 2011
Up next: "Free Speech Zones" for Siamese and Burmese cats.
posted by MuffinMan at 1:01 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by MuffinMan at 1:01 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't think I'd feel right letting my pet stay out all night like some kind of ASBO thug. I like my balls of fluff where I can see them. Poor cats will just have to get used to it.
posted by londonmark at 1:23 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by londonmark at 1:23 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also: "anti-human agenda". Precious.
posted by londonmark at 1:35 AM on June 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by londonmark at 1:35 AM on June 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
This is another prong in the anti-human agenda pushed by Australia's environmentalists.
I...what...
Do you have do this every god damn week, LiB? Fucking hell.
posted by Jimbob at 1:36 AM on June 10, 2011 [13 favorites]
I...what...
Do you have do this every god damn week, LiB? Fucking hell.
posted by Jimbob at 1:36 AM on June 10, 2011 [13 favorites]
This is another prong in the anti-human agenda pushed by Australia's environmentalists.
[Citation needed]. Also, a reality check. And probably a hug.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:46 AM on June 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
[Citation needed]. Also, a reality check. And probably a hug.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 1:46 AM on June 10, 2011 [6 favorites]
It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your kitty is tonight?
posted by Sonny Jim at 2:44 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Sonny Jim at 2:44 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
A total ban on cats in Australia would be feasible, if not for the right-wing culture-war aspect of the Australian authoritarian tradition, meaning that it's focussed on spiting the greenies and banning things no bogan would be interested in. Perhaps the trick would be to convince the Liberal Party and the ALP that cat owners are part of the inner-city SBS-watching latte-drinking cultural elite, and that hammering them by taking their pets away would win points with the suburban battlers.
posted by acb at 2:59 AM on June 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by acb at 2:59 AM on June 10, 2011 [4 favorites]
Anyway, here's a modest proposal on how a cat phase-out in Australia could be implemented:
- Immediately: a total ban on the importation of cats into Australia, in federal quarantine regulations.
- In 6 months: all existing cats must be sterilised.
- In 12 months: cat breeding is outlawed. Offering kittens for sale or free becomes a crime.
- In 15 years: cats are designated as vermin, with council officers empowered to exterminate on sight. Keeping or feeding cats becomes a crime. 3-month euthanasia amnesty on surviving cats.
In 1997 my federal MP, Richard Evans, called for "the total eradication of cats in Australia" by 2020. I can't find any local news report on it, but here it is in the NY Times. That report claims he "drew wide support with his proposal to kill all cats", but he lost his seat the following year.
posted by robcorr at 3:12 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by robcorr at 3:12 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
With over 1000 cat and dog attacks on wildlife in the Sydney region during 2010
*gasp* Over 1000 attacks!
In a city with 4.5 million people.
And some of the attacks were by dogs.
And of those that were by cats, most were strays who can't be curfewed.
But blah blah froth cats are bad not humans right-wing culture-war aspect of the Australian authoritarian tradition nobody ever bulldozed a few thousand acres of bush so I could buy fake retro t-shirts at an outlet mall.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:14 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
*gasp* Over 1000 attacks!
In a city with 4.5 million people.
And some of the attacks were by dogs.
And of those that were by cats, most were strays who can't be curfewed.
But blah blah froth cats are bad not humans right-wing culture-war aspect of the Australian authoritarian tradition nobody ever bulldozed a few thousand acres of bush so I could buy fake retro t-shirts at an outlet mall.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:14 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
House cats as predators in the Australian environment: impacts and management
Abstract: This paper provides an overview of the predatory activities of the house cat (Felis catus) in Australia, focusing principally on the interactions of domestic and stray cats with native species of prey. Like their free-living, or feral, counterparts, domestic cats take a broad range of prey, with small mammals, birds, and human-derived foods forming the bulk of the diet. Domestic and stray cats have contributed to declines of suburban populations of eastern barred bandicoots (Perameles gunnii) and superb lyrebirds (Menura novaehollandiae) in Victoria, Australia. The effects of cats on prey communities remain speculative. In Sydney, artificial nests placed in trees in forest remnants suffered less predation where cat activity was high rather than where it was low, indicating that cats beneficially reduced damage by introduced rats and other nest predators. However, high cat activity was associated with reduced bird diversity. Legislation to encourage responsible cat ownership has been passed in Australia; it should have positive outcomes for both wildlife conservation and cat welfare.posted by robcorr at 3:30 AM on June 10, 2011 [5 favorites]
But blah blah froth cats are bad not humans right-wing culture-war aspect of the Australian authoritarian tradition nobody ever bulldozed a few thousand acres of bush so I could buy fake retro t-shirts at an outlet mall.
RTFA. We're talking about a local council that is politely asking (not legislating or otherwise banning or enforcing a damn thing) its residents to keep cats indoors at night, to help protect a local possum colony.
What the hell are you talking about?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:32 AM on June 10, 2011
RTFA. We're talking about a local council that is politely asking (not legislating or otherwise banning or enforcing a damn thing) its residents to keep cats indoors at night, to help protect a local possum colony.
What the hell are you talking about?
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 3:32 AM on June 10, 2011
most were strays who can't be curfewed
My first thought was "Don't tell me they don't have strays and feral cats."
posted by Ardiril at 3:45 AM on June 10, 2011
My first thought was "Don't tell me they don't have strays and feral cats."
posted by Ardiril at 3:45 AM on June 10, 2011
There are estimations that there are 18 million feral cats in Australia.
The Leichardt Council is free, in the middle of Sydney, to do as it pleases. It will have almost zero effect on Australia's wildlife. It will anger a lot of cat owners though and they will express themselves at the ballot box.
posted by sien at 4:05 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Leichardt Council is free, in the middle of Sydney, to do as it pleases. It will have almost zero effect on Australia's wildlife. It will anger a lot of cat owners though and they will express themselves at the ballot box.
posted by sien at 4:05 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Perhaps it's time to make domesticating native species as ecologically-sound housepets a priority? We have native houseplants and Easter Bilbies instead of Easter Bunnies, so why not throw some money at CSIRO to create, say, a pet wombat that plays fetch or a strokable, playful possum or something? Granted, it took humanity thousands of years of trial and error to domesticate its existing species, but they didn't have genetic engineering.
posted by acb at 4:23 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by acb at 4:23 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Besides which, the Soviets domesticated foxes within a few decades of intensive breeding. Then again, canids such as foxes may be more suitable starting points than marsupials.
posted by acb at 4:27 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by acb at 4:27 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
I would sell a kid for a pet wombat
posted by londonmark at 4:35 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by londonmark at 4:35 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Here is the Action Statement prepared under the (Vic) Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act, for the Potentially Threatening Process, Predation of native wildlife by the cat, Felis catus [.pdf]
posted by wilful at 4:43 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by wilful at 4:43 AM on June 10, 2011
It probably won't be long until we develop a good method of sterilizing cats (dogs, rats, deer, etc.) just by leaving the right drug in the right bait. Kitty eats it, kitty is sterilized, and eventually kitty dies a natural death without reproducing. You might never wipe out feral cats in Australia, but maybe you could reduce them to some insignificant number without resorting to violent methods.
posted by pracowity at 4:50 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by pracowity at 4:50 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
that poor possum. victim of a cat stick up.
posted by fuzzypantalones at 4:54 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by fuzzypantalones at 4:54 AM on June 10, 2011
I have never understood the notion of an "outdoor cat" - if I have a cat as a pet, I want it to be inside, with me, not outside killing birds and mice and squirrels and leaving them on my pillow as a present. That is, if I have a cat at all, which I never would, because a) I'm allergic and b) cats are jerks, generally.
posted by antifuse at 5:25 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by antifuse at 5:25 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
We don't let our cats go outside just because they'd be out there killing birds and little mammals.
posted by octothorpe at 5:36 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by octothorpe at 5:36 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
We let our cat outside because that's the funnest place a cat can hang out - keeping them inside all the time seems cruel. We do bring her in at night though.
posted by zeoslap at 6:22 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by zeoslap at 6:22 AM on June 10, 2011
We let our cats go to Australia during the day but they seem happy enough in the garden. At night, they sleep on us.
Over about 20 years, our cats have brought home maybe three birds and I never find evidence of mayhem in the garden, so I don't think they're among the cats tearing up the wilderness.
posted by pracowity at 6:37 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Over about 20 years, our cats have brought home maybe three birds and I never find evidence of mayhem in the garden, so I don't think they're among the cats tearing up the wilderness.
posted by pracowity at 6:37 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Granted, it took humanity thousands of years of trial and error to domesticate its existing species, but they didn't have genetic engineering.
Rakunks, here we come!
posted by lydhre at 6:37 AM on June 10, 2011
Rakunks, here we come!
posted by lydhre at 6:37 AM on June 10, 2011
Great idea, but what this country needs is a pet license.
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:38 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by tumid dahlia at 6:38 AM on June 10, 2011
Australians are in denial about their failure to deal with the problem of urbanized drop bears and are focusing on cats/dogs as a useful scapegoat.
posted by permafrost at 6:39 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by permafrost at 6:39 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
There's something half-arsed about this. Not with the concept of bringing your cats in at night, I do that myself, but in the policy.
Is an anecdote from the Mayor's son and a barely relevant figure from WIRES the council's evidence for this policy? That and a 200 word press release is going to convince enough owners to change their behavior that the policy will be effective?
I can't help but think this Mefi thread has put more research and consultation into this issue than Leichhardt Council. Maybe the Telegraph headline should be 'Mayor's son indulged, accidentally makes international news.'
posted by fonetik at 6:43 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is an anecdote from the Mayor's son and a barely relevant figure from WIRES the council's evidence for this policy? That and a 200 word press release is going to convince enough owners to change their behavior that the policy will be effective?
I can't help but think this Mefi thread has put more research and consultation into this issue than Leichhardt Council. Maybe the Telegraph headline should be 'Mayor's son indulged, accidentally makes international news.'
posted by fonetik at 6:43 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
By the way, does anyone know what you call an animal that is inactive in the daytime and the nighttime? Because that's what my cats are.
posted by fonetik at 6:46 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by fonetik at 6:46 AM on June 10, 2011
We let our cat outside because that's the funnest place a cat can hang out - keeping them inside all the time seems cruel.
Seems the funnest place for a dog to be would be free to roam the streets in a pack. Doesn't mean we let them do it. We've got a cat, who is an indoor cat, and who we take outside on a lead to explore the garden a few times a week. He doesn't seem worse-off for it. The things he loves doing include snuggling next to us on the couch, watching the world go by out the window, having play-fights with our puppy, and chasing whims up and down the hallway. He seems happy enough for a cat that's never going to kill wildlife, or get squashed by a car.
posted by Jimbob at 6:49 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Seems the funnest place for a dog to be would be free to roam the streets in a pack. Doesn't mean we let them do it. We've got a cat, who is an indoor cat, and who we take outside on a lead to explore the garden a few times a week. He doesn't seem worse-off for it. The things he loves doing include snuggling next to us on the couch, watching the world go by out the window, having play-fights with our puppy, and chasing whims up and down the hallway. He seems happy enough for a cat that's never going to kill wildlife, or get squashed by a car.
posted by Jimbob at 6:49 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
zeoslap: "We let our cat outside because that's the funnest place a cat can hang out - keeping them inside all the time seems cruel. We do bring her in at night though"
You need to read the primary literature; all your policy means is that daytime animals are the ones predated upon. You're still having a hugely negative impact on our local fauna.
Australia is so unique in its fauna, and even after 250+ years of European domesticate introduction there are still problems and microextinctions. I don't understand the blinkered and self-centred attitudes most cat owners take.
If you don't want to have an indoor cat, you have a semi-feral. And if you have a semi-feral, you're a major part of the problems facing remaining decent Australia ecosystems.
posted by barnacles at 6:53 AM on June 10, 2011
You need to read the primary literature; all your policy means is that daytime animals are the ones predated upon. You're still having a hugely negative impact on our local fauna.
Australia is so unique in its fauna, and even after 250+ years of European domesticate introduction there are still problems and microextinctions. I don't understand the blinkered and self-centred attitudes most cat owners take.
If you don't want to have an indoor cat, you have a semi-feral. And if you have a semi-feral, you're a major part of the problems facing remaining decent Australia ecosystems.
posted by barnacles at 6:53 AM on June 10, 2011
- Immediately: a total ban on the importation of cats into Australia, in federal quarantine regulations.
- In 6 months: all existing cats must be sterilised.
- In 12 months: cat breeding is outlawed. Offering kittens for sale or free becomes a crime.
- In 15 years: cats are designated as vermin, with council officers empowered to exterminate on sight. Keeping or feeding cats becomes a crime. 3-month euthanasia amnesty on surviving cats.
- In 30 years, CatNet becomes self-aware and forms alliances with anti-human environmentalists, dogs, and pet rabbits.
- The Leichhardt Council is finally defeated. Sydney lies in ruins.
"Are you using the word "many" in the sense that there are more than 5, or in the sense that this is even remotely common.?"
In the U.S.? Everywhere I personally have lived. Which is more than five places. They're quite common. Are they widely obeyed? Not necessarily. But it's quite common.
My neighborhood actually had an incident earlier this year where an uncontained, uncontrolled cat was roaming the neighborhood. We have probably about five cats in the neighborhood whose owners don't abide by the law (cats must be indoors, contained in a fenced yard, or on a leash, same as dogs). This one woman owned a totally unsocialized cat that she couldn't really be bothered to deal with, and there had been repeated complaints about it attacking neighbors' dogs. Then it attacked a school child walking home (just scratches and scariness, and the kid ran), and she was ticketed and warned. THEN it attacked an elderly lady from a nearby retirement home out for a walk, who fell and broke something (probably a hip, I don't recall) and the cat kept attacking her when she couldn't run away. At which point the cat was euthanized, the woman's homeowner's insurance rates shot through the roof, and the woman screamed the entire time about how it was unfair and unjust and cats were meant to be outside and it wasn't her fault her cat kept attacking people and blah blah blah. (Even AFTER being warned and specifically informed of the law after the schoolchild attack.) Anyway, the upshot was, she got convicted of violating the leash law, is now paying through the nose for her homeowner's insurance, and has multiple lawsuits pending for medical bills, all of which she will lose because she's already been convicted of the leash-law violation and was responsible for control of the animal.
The moral of the story is, they may not bother to enforce the cat leash laws that often, but if your cat is off-leash and attacks a person or pet, you're pretty screwed.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:01 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
In the U.S.? Everywhere I personally have lived. Which is more than five places. They're quite common. Are they widely obeyed? Not necessarily. But it's quite common.
My neighborhood actually had an incident earlier this year where an uncontained, uncontrolled cat was roaming the neighborhood. We have probably about five cats in the neighborhood whose owners don't abide by the law (cats must be indoors, contained in a fenced yard, or on a leash, same as dogs). This one woman owned a totally unsocialized cat that she couldn't really be bothered to deal with, and there had been repeated complaints about it attacking neighbors' dogs. Then it attacked a school child walking home (just scratches and scariness, and the kid ran), and she was ticketed and warned. THEN it attacked an elderly lady from a nearby retirement home out for a walk, who fell and broke something (probably a hip, I don't recall) and the cat kept attacking her when she couldn't run away. At which point the cat was euthanized, the woman's homeowner's insurance rates shot through the roof, and the woman screamed the entire time about how it was unfair and unjust and cats were meant to be outside and it wasn't her fault her cat kept attacking people and blah blah blah. (Even AFTER being warned and specifically informed of the law after the schoolchild attack.) Anyway, the upshot was, she got convicted of violating the leash law, is now paying through the nose for her homeowner's insurance, and has multiple lawsuits pending for medical bills, all of which she will lose because she's already been convicted of the leash-law violation and was responsible for control of the animal.
The moral of the story is, they may not bother to enforce the cat leash laws that often, but if your cat is off-leash and attacks a person or pet, you're pretty screwed.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:01 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
By the way, does anyone know what you call an animal that is inactive in the daytime and the nighttime?
If they live on the margins
between night and day,
they could be crepuscular,
matutinal, or vespertine.
posted by pracowity at 7:38 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
If they live on the margins
between night and day,
they could be crepuscular,
matutinal, or vespertine.
posted by pracowity at 7:38 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
We have had many wonderful cats, which we keep almost exclusively inside. They tend to live very long lives; one made it to 21. They don't have fleas and enjoy a house with many windows and perches for them to enjoy the view. We also have friends who let their cats roam outdoors. Their cats usually don't last more than 3 or 4 years, when they invariably vanish or are run over and fleas are a chronic problem.
Never mind the wildlife--free outdoor roaming isn't always good for the cats, either.
posted by kinnakeet at 7:54 AM on June 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
Never mind the wildlife--free outdoor roaming isn't always good for the cats, either.
posted by kinnakeet at 7:54 AM on June 10, 2011 [3 favorites]
A couple years ago Sydney also instituted a dog curfew in the area around one beach after the deaths of several faerie penguins.
posted by scalefree at 8:19 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by scalefree at 8:19 AM on June 10, 2011
In the U.S.? Everywhere I personally have lived. Which is more than five places.
Do you suppose you could name a place? I'm trying to google up some local leash laws pertaining to cats. So far, no luck.
posted by pracowity at 8:22 AM on June 10, 2011
Do you suppose you could name a place? I'm trying to google up some local leash laws pertaining to cats. So far, no luck.
posted by pracowity at 8:22 AM on June 10, 2011
This is another prong in the anti-human agenda pushed by Australia's environmentalists.
What? Keeping your cat in a night is anti-human? That's gotta be a troll.
You need to read the primary literature; all your policy means is that daytime animals are the ones predated upon. You're still having a hugely negative impact on our local fauna.
Ah, you're familiar with their cat and its predation habits? What if it only kills green parrakeets and other non-native animals?
I'm not saying cats can't be a problem, but the hand waviness of this thread from both sides is pretty goofy. We've had outdoor cats that never killed anything, and ones that spent all day hunting. Not every cat has a 'hugely negative impact on the local fauna'. Probably not anywhere near the impact of new roads, or new development.
In the U.S.? Everywhere I personally have lived. Which is more than five places. They're quite common. Are they widely obeyed? Not necessarily. But it's quite common.
I've never even heard of this, let alone considered it "quite common". Quite common where?
Anyway, for this specific community, under these circumstances, this request makes sense. However cats aren't nearly the problems for native fauna and ecosystems that humans are. Not even close.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:30 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
What? Keeping your cat in a night is anti-human? That's gotta be a troll.
You need to read the primary literature; all your policy means is that daytime animals are the ones predated upon. You're still having a hugely negative impact on our local fauna.
Ah, you're familiar with their cat and its predation habits? What if it only kills green parrakeets and other non-native animals?
I'm not saying cats can't be a problem, but the hand waviness of this thread from both sides is pretty goofy. We've had outdoor cats that never killed anything, and ones that spent all day hunting. Not every cat has a 'hugely negative impact on the local fauna'. Probably not anywhere near the impact of new roads, or new development.
In the U.S.? Everywhere I personally have lived. Which is more than five places. They're quite common. Are they widely obeyed? Not necessarily. But it's quite common.
I've never even heard of this, let alone considered it "quite common". Quite common where?
Anyway, for this specific community, under these circumstances, this request makes sense. However cats aren't nearly the problems for native fauna and ecosystems that humans are. Not even close.
posted by oneirodynia at 8:30 AM on June 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
Completely reasonable request, but it would awfully tough to enforce. Kitties have the nighttime advantage. Finding one in the dark is pretty tough. Also, the pictured possum is pretty much the greatest thing. My cats are indoor, but I'd be pissed as shit if they killed something that awesome.
posted by troublewithwolves at 8:34 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by troublewithwolves at 8:34 AM on June 10, 2011
This is a good move and I would support it going Australia wide. Our native animals are in danger from loss of habitat, cat and dog attacks, traffic, pollution and stress in built up areas.
I don't think enough Aussies have the opportunity to learn about, understand and appreciate our native fauna and thus don't feel a real need to protect them. I love our local possums, native birds, and seeing the occasional Koala that visits my suburban garden, but many people think that possums are a pest because they don't know much about them, don't realise they are endangered here, and don't understand that a possum box or two in the garden will prevent them trying to live in your roof.
You can enjoy Australian animals and birds from your garden, balcony and nearby parks and wilderness areas. Put up a possum box in your garden, leave out some water for the wild animals, plant some wildlife-friendly plants and trees if you have the space and go bushwalking.
posted by lucien at 8:47 AM on June 10, 2011
I don't think enough Aussies have the opportunity to learn about, understand and appreciate our native fauna and thus don't feel a real need to protect them. I love our local possums, native birds, and seeing the occasional Koala that visits my suburban garden, but many people think that possums are a pest because they don't know much about them, don't realise they are endangered here, and don't understand that a possum box or two in the garden will prevent them trying to live in your roof.
You can enjoy Australian animals and birds from your garden, balcony and nearby parks and wilderness areas. Put up a possum box in your garden, leave out some water for the wild animals, plant some wildlife-friendly plants and trees if you have the space and go bushwalking.
posted by lucien at 8:47 AM on June 10, 2011
I hate outdoor cats because they leave piles of crap all over my lawn. I don't own any cats. It's nice that someone else gets all the cute, cuddly time and I get to pick up the poop. Sorry for the brief rant.
posted by Buck Eschaton at 9:00 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by Buck Eschaton at 9:00 AM on June 10, 2011
This is a good move and I would support it going Australia wide.
Coming soon: council pest-eradication officers armed with rifles with nightvision scopes and RFID readers. The RFID readers are for billing the owners of illegally roaming cats for the bullets used to neutralise them.
posted by acb at 9:36 AM on June 10, 2011
Coming soon: council pest-eradication officers armed with rifles with nightvision scopes and RFID readers. The RFID readers are for billing the owners of illegally roaming cats for the bullets used to neutralise them.
posted by acb at 9:36 AM on June 10, 2011
have you watched the cats shit on your lawn? i've had cats my entire life, indoor/outdoor cats, and i've never seen my cats, neighbors cats, or strays, shit on the lawn. under your shrubs in the dirt, yeah ok. lawn where they can't try to cover it? no.
eyebrows mcgee: i want to see newspaper articles about this cat brutally attacking dogs and people. sounds like that old lady was nearly killed!
i don't think it's horrible that you may have to keep your cat inside to keep them from *maybe* driving some endangered animal extinct. i do always find it interesting that cats get blamed for being the cause of loss of songbirds or cute australian possums or whatever, when building massive cities and suburban sprawl and 10 lane freeways and on and on do far more damage than any cat ever could.
posted by rainperimeter at 9:38 AM on June 10, 2011
eyebrows mcgee: i want to see newspaper articles about this cat brutally attacking dogs and people. sounds like that old lady was nearly killed!
i don't think it's horrible that you may have to keep your cat inside to keep them from *maybe* driving some endangered animal extinct. i do always find it interesting that cats get blamed for being the cause of loss of songbirds or cute australian possums or whatever, when building massive cities and suburban sprawl and 10 lane freeways and on and on do far more damage than any cat ever could.
posted by rainperimeter at 9:38 AM on June 10, 2011
have you watched the cats shit on your lawn? i've had cats my entire life, indoor/outdoor cats, and i've never seen my cats, neighbors cats, or strays, shit on the lawn. under your shrubs in the dirt, yeah ok. lawn where they can't try to cover it? no.
Lot's of stuff happens that we don't personally see. How do I know cats shit on my lawn? Because I have to tell my dog not to eat the cat shit that is in the middle of my lawn.
posted by nulledge at 10:06 AM on June 10, 2011
Lot's of stuff happens that we don't personally see. How do I know cats shit on my lawn? Because I have to tell my dog not to eat the cat shit that is in the middle of my lawn.
posted by nulledge at 10:06 AM on June 10, 2011
@pracowity: "Do you suppose you could name a place?"
Happily, although I see Horselover beat me to it.
Peoria Municipal Code, Section 4-2: "The owner of any animal shall keep such animal confined or under restraint at all times when it is off the premises of the owner's real property and shall not permit such animal to be at large. Dogs trained for law enforcement under the control of a peace officer in the performance of duty shall not be required to be confined or under restraint." (Under the "dogs and cats" specific section, you'll also learn your cat must be registered, rabies vaccinated, and have a collar when outside it's house.)
Municipal Code of Chicago, 7-12-030:
Anyway, there's a couple. You can usually find them under "animals" under whatever city's municipal code you're looking at. Sometimes they're in a county code instead. There may be different sections for livestock and pets.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:27 AM on June 10, 2011
Happily, although I see Horselover beat me to it.
Peoria Municipal Code, Section 4-2: "The owner of any animal shall keep such animal confined or under restraint at all times when it is off the premises of the owner's real property and shall not permit such animal to be at large. Dogs trained for law enforcement under the control of a peace officer in the performance of duty shall not be required to be confined or under restraint." (Under the "dogs and cats" specific section, you'll also learn your cat must be registered, rabies vaccinated, and have a collar when outside it's house.)
Municipal Code of Chicago, 7-12-030:
"Each owner shall keep and maintain his animal under restraint; provided, however, that this section shall not apply to any dog being used for rescue or law enforcement work. It shall be unlawful for any owner to allow his or her animal to cross outside the property line of its owner to any extent, including reaching through, over or under a fence, or to keep or allow his or her animal to be outdoors on an unfenced portion of the owner’s property, unless the animal is leashed and under the control of its owner or another responsible person [...] The provisions of this section shall be a positive duty of the owner and the offenses described herein shall be strict liability offenses.(Actually, I was wrong -- I lived in Durham, NC, where there's no actual "leash law" for cats (just dogs), but a cat roaming on anyone else's property or a public right-of-way is considered a nuisance animal, which means you get 72 hours to fix it before they ticket you, but I guess it works out about the same.)
Any owner who violates any provision of this section shall be subject to a fine of $300.00, if the violation does not result in severe injury or death to any person or damage to another person’s property. If the violation results in severe injury or death to any person, the owner shall be subject to a fine of not less than $1,000.00 and not more than $10,000.00. In addition to a fine, the owner may be required to submit full restitution to the victim or may be incarcerated for a period not to exceed six months, or may be required to perform up to 100 hours of community service, or any combination thereof. If the violation results in damage to another person’s property, the owner shall be subject to a fine of not less than $300.00 and not more than $1,000.00. In addition to a fine, the owner may be required to submit full restitution to the victim.
Anyway, there's a couple. You can usually find them under "animals" under whatever city's municipal code you're looking at. Sometimes they're in a county code instead. There may be different sections for livestock and pets.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:27 AM on June 10, 2011
Trust me it's steaming piles of cat poo on the grass right in the middle of the lawn where the kids play and then they can track into home or car. Luckily I have warned the kids to scan the yard before any serious playing begins. My son even remarked last weekend that the yard smelled like poop. Believe me I've searched for solutions and this is a very common problem. Cat vomit is nice too.
posted by Buck Eschaton at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2011
posted by Buck Eschaton at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2011
I support this. My garden/yard is the equivalent of a NJ Turnpike rest stop for the kitties traveling through my 'hood.
posted by medeine at 10:52 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by medeine at 10:52 AM on June 10, 2011 [2 favorites]
Really wish this would work. There really isn't any excuse for an outside cat in Australia, they have far shorter average lifespans and kill so many native animals.
I new someone north of Sydney who considered any cat more than 50 m from a house to be feral and did his best to kill any he could. I was never sure about his conclusion but was sympathetic to his ideas...
posted by N-stoff at 12:06 PM on June 10, 2011
I new someone north of Sydney who considered any cat more than 50 m from a house to be feral and did his best to kill any he could. I was never sure about his conclusion but was sympathetic to his ideas...
posted by N-stoff at 12:06 PM on June 10, 2011
rainperimeter writes "have you watched the cats shit on your lawn? i've had cats my entire life, indoor/outdoor cats, and i've never seen my cats, neighbors cats, or strays, shit on the lawn. under your shrubs in the dirt, yeah ok. lawn where they can't try to cover it? no. "
Sure, all the time. But only in the winter. In the summer they prefer the nice tilled soil of my vegetable garden. The seedling digging bastards.
posted by Mitheral at 1:32 PM on June 10, 2011
Sure, all the time. But only in the winter. In the summer they prefer the nice tilled soil of my vegetable garden. The seedling digging bastards.
posted by Mitheral at 1:32 PM on June 10, 2011
If they live on the margins
between night and day,
they could be crepuscular,
matutinal, or vespertine.
Thanks Pracowity.
posted by fonetik at 4:12 PM on June 10, 2011
between night and day,
they could be crepuscular,
matutinal, or vespertine.
Thanks Pracowity.
posted by fonetik at 4:12 PM on June 10, 2011
Great idea. House cats devastate wildlife wherever they are allowed to roam, songbirds included. Only a few birds sing in the morning in my neighborhood. I'm quite sure the local cats killed most of them off a long time ago. It's really sad. I like cats but, unchecked, they are extremely destructive.
posted by chance at 6:26 PM on June 10, 2011
posted by chance at 6:26 PM on June 10, 2011
We have had many wonderful cats, which we keep almost exclusively inside. They tend to live very long lives; one made it to 21. They don't have fleas and enjoy a house with many windows and perches for them to enjoy the view. We also have friends who let their cats roam outdoors. Their cats usually don't last more than 3 or 4 years, when they invariably vanish or are run over and fleas are a chronic problem.
I can't speak to Australia's issues living here in the US, but I've had cats as pets most of my life. I've always had outdoor cats, and they've all lived long lives, 17 years or more. In fact my neighbor where I grew up had a few Siamese which roamed outside at will (she adopted one of our cats as well, a tortoise shell). All of her cats lived to be over 20, including the one she adopted from us.
My current cat is a Maine Coon who was OK with being indoors when we lived out in the country and lots of dogs were roaming around, but we're in town now and staying inside is torture for her - she howls constantly. I close the door when the sun goes down, although if I were the owner here I'd probably install a cat door. The traffic is not bad here at all, where I live is set back from the road and is in a low-traffic residential area, and she stays away from the road anyway. She's an excellent mouser and always eats her prey, so she brings them to me but eats them quickly. I could keep her confined, but honestly she's just not happy being stuck inside all the time and enjoys her life much more when she can roam a bit. My experience says she'll live a good, long life.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:40 PM on June 11, 2011
I can't speak to Australia's issues living here in the US, but I've had cats as pets most of my life. I've always had outdoor cats, and they've all lived long lives, 17 years or more. In fact my neighbor where I grew up had a few Siamese which roamed outside at will (she adopted one of our cats as well, a tortoise shell). All of her cats lived to be over 20, including the one she adopted from us.
My current cat is a Maine Coon who was OK with being indoors when we lived out in the country and lots of dogs were roaming around, but we're in town now and staying inside is torture for her - she howls constantly. I close the door when the sun goes down, although if I were the owner here I'd probably install a cat door. The traffic is not bad here at all, where I live is set back from the road and is in a low-traffic residential area, and she stays away from the road anyway. She's an excellent mouser and always eats her prey, so she brings them to me but eats them quickly. I could keep her confined, but honestly she's just not happy being stuck inside all the time and enjoys her life much more when she can roam a bit. My experience says she'll live a good, long life.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:40 PM on June 11, 2011
Oh, and my cats have never had fleas, FTR.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:41 PM on June 11, 2011
posted by krinklyfig at 5:41 PM on June 11, 2011
House cats devastate wildlife wherever they are allowed to roam, songbirds included.
I live in a rural area with a lot of small-scale agriculture. Although plenty of people have cats as pets, they've always been considered working animals and are kept semi-feral and live mostly in barns and similar places as pest control. They don't live to be 20 and are easy targets for the working dogs which roam around at will (as well as a few large predator bird species - yes birds eat cats, too), but they've been here for centuries alongside the farmers. Since they kill vermin they are pretty important for keeping disease in check around farms, which can otherwise be devastating.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:50 PM on June 11, 2011
I live in a rural area with a lot of small-scale agriculture. Although plenty of people have cats as pets, they've always been considered working animals and are kept semi-feral and live mostly in barns and similar places as pest control. They don't live to be 20 and are easy targets for the working dogs which roam around at will (as well as a few large predator bird species - yes birds eat cats, too), but they've been here for centuries alongside the farmers. Since they kill vermin they are pretty important for keeping disease in check around farms, which can otherwise be devastating.
posted by krinklyfig at 5:50 PM on June 11, 2011
I'd love a cat but our area has a lot of native birds and frogs which spend time in our small yard. Apart from the cat enclosures, how do people keep them inside? Don't they try to run out the door when you go somewhere?
posted by harriet vane at 9:01 PM on June 11, 2011
posted by harriet vane at 9:01 PM on June 11, 2011
"Apart from the cat enclosures, how do people keep them inside? Don't they try to run out the door when you go somewhere?"
Well, first, you train them. One of mine, as a kitten, imagined he wanted to go outside. We would pitch a ball away from the door for him to chase before we opened it and slid out. Eventually he lost interest in the door.
But all three of the cats I've had had been abandoned outdoors to fend for themselves, and two of them wanted to NEVER LEAVE THE NICE WARM HOUSE WITH THE PREDICTABLE FOOD SCHEDULE AGAIN. One of them actually ran AWAY from opening doors until he finally decided we weren't going to make him go out there. The third one (the kitten who needed training) sometimes THINKS he wants to go outdoors but is never happy if he achieves it, because outside still scares him. On the rare occasions he has gotten out the door, he has totally freaked out until we rescued him.
We can actually leave the door propped open -- to bring in groceries or whatever -- and it's not a problem.
My parents have had one cat in 30 years of cat ownership that's an inveterate door-dasher, but none of the others were particularly interested in leaving the house. You use your foot to lift the door-dasher and scoot him back, and engage in various door and body blocks.
We've always made sure to provide at least one "cat window" with a cat perch (you can even buy ones that attach to narrow windowsills non-permanently, for renters), a screen, and some interesting wildlife to watch -- overlooking a popular tree for squirrels, or a birdfeeder, or something. Mine do like to WATCH the outdoors, and smell it through the screen, but they really don't want to BE out there where they might have to follow through on their threats to the squirrels. They're all talk.
Indoor cats are more common in the U.S. than other parts of the world (see here for some reasons why), and really, if you raise them as indoor cats, most aren't particularly interested in going outdoors. (If they've always gone outdoors, most won't adjust as well to all-indoor life, but most will adjust.) Cats can be perfectly happy with an all-indoor life, though you have to be a bit more diligent about exercise.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:30 PM on June 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well, first, you train them. One of mine, as a kitten, imagined he wanted to go outside. We would pitch a ball away from the door for him to chase before we opened it and slid out. Eventually he lost interest in the door.
But all three of the cats I've had had been abandoned outdoors to fend for themselves, and two of them wanted to NEVER LEAVE THE NICE WARM HOUSE WITH THE PREDICTABLE FOOD SCHEDULE AGAIN. One of them actually ran AWAY from opening doors until he finally decided we weren't going to make him go out there. The third one (the kitten who needed training) sometimes THINKS he wants to go outdoors but is never happy if he achieves it, because outside still scares him. On the rare occasions he has gotten out the door, he has totally freaked out until we rescued him.
We can actually leave the door propped open -- to bring in groceries or whatever -- and it's not a problem.
My parents have had one cat in 30 years of cat ownership that's an inveterate door-dasher, but none of the others were particularly interested in leaving the house. You use your foot to lift the door-dasher and scoot him back, and engage in various door and body blocks.
We've always made sure to provide at least one "cat window" with a cat perch (you can even buy ones that attach to narrow windowsills non-permanently, for renters), a screen, and some interesting wildlife to watch -- overlooking a popular tree for squirrels, or a birdfeeder, or something. Mine do like to WATCH the outdoors, and smell it through the screen, but they really don't want to BE out there where they might have to follow through on their threats to the squirrels. They're all talk.
Indoor cats are more common in the U.S. than other parts of the world (see here for some reasons why), and really, if you raise them as indoor cats, most aren't particularly interested in going outdoors. (If they've always gone outdoors, most won't adjust as well to all-indoor life, but most will adjust.) Cats can be perfectly happy with an all-indoor life, though you have to be a bit more diligent about exercise.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 9:30 PM on June 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Thanks, Eyebrows, that's good to know. We've definitely got suitable windows that could have perches set up.
posted by harriet vane at 10:10 PM on June 11, 2011
posted by harriet vane at 10:10 PM on June 11, 2011
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in Australia, or some kind of enforced pet sterilisation & registration program. At least until we can train them to love the taste of India Mynahs and cane toads exclusively .
posted by Wantok at 11:36 PM on June 9, 2011 [5 favorites]