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June 12, 2011 6:00 AM Subscribe
David Mamet discusses free-market economists, studying Kaballah, Aristotle's conception of drama, Tennessee William's expensive habit, and his love for Sarah Palin. Oh, and his HBO movie about Phil Spector (whom he believes is innocent). Previously, previously, and previously.
A recent quote/tweet from Jack Shafer: "Somebody should start a Cranky_Mamet Twitter account and quote directly from his new book and interviews."
posted by Fizz at 6:04 AM on June 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 6:04 AM on June 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
Yet another example of swinging from brain-dead fanaticism of the one kind to brain-dead fanaticism of the other. Maybe someday the pendulum will settle at thought.
posted by shivohum at 6:15 AM on June 12, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by shivohum at 6:15 AM on June 12, 2011 [8 favorites]
I find the whole "Phil Spector is innocent!" idea a strange one. However, I find it much much much much more odd that HBO was interested in airing a TV movie based on that premise.
posted by josher71 at 6:17 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by josher71 at 6:17 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
About Sarah Palin:"She has succeeded at everything she has put her mind to."
Is he living in an alternate universe where resigning as governor of a state = success?
posted by wittgenstein at 6:19 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
Is he living in an alternate universe where resigning as governor of a state = success?
posted by wittgenstein at 6:19 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
She successfully quit, didn't she?
posted by stevis23 at 6:21 AM on June 12, 2011 [14 favorites]
posted by stevis23 at 6:21 AM on June 12, 2011 [14 favorites]
I mention Sarah Palin. “I am crazy about her,” he answers immediately. “Would she make a good candidate for president? I don’t know but she seems to have succeeded at everything she put her hand to.”
What is worse than people hating you? Not being the center of attention, I guess.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:21 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
What is worse than people hating you? Not being the center of attention, I guess.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:21 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
“You get rich through luck. You get rich through crime. You get rich through fulfilling the needs of another. You can be as greedy as you like. If you can’t do one of those three things, you ain’t going to get any money.”
posted by BeerFilter at 6:22 AM on June 12, 2011
posted by BeerFilter at 6:22 AM on June 12, 2011
Maybe Phil Spector is innocent of murder, but there should be some kind of punishment for "Let it Be", the John Lennon "Rock and Roll" fiasco, his production of the Ramones' "Rock and Roll High School", and ... sorry about this, "River Deep, Mountain High" (c'mon, it's moosh).
David Mamet is his own man. He's like Zizek, Naomi Wolf and Noam Chomsky -- our culture would be much poorer without these freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries.
posted by Faze at 6:26 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
David Mamet is his own man. He's like Zizek, Naomi Wolf and Noam Chomsky -- our culture would be much poorer without these freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries.
posted by Faze at 6:26 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
Is this New!Mamet really supposed to be the result of an ideological change? I mean, I'm sure we've all seen/read some Mamet...wouldn't you just assume that person was an asshole?
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:47 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:47 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
I mention Sarah Palin. “I am crazy about her,” he answers immediately. “Would she make a good candidate for president? I don’t know but she seems to have succeeded at everything she put her hand to.”
Interesting. The Atlantic Monthly has a really excellent examination of Sarah Palin and her career as governor, I recommend everyone read it. Maybe even David Mamet, if he happens across this thread.
posted by hippybear at 6:56 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Interesting. The Atlantic Monthly has a really excellent examination of Sarah Palin and her career as governor, I recommend everyone read it. Maybe even David Mamet, if he happens across this thread.
posted by hippybear at 6:56 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
SPONSORED BY BRAIN EATER.
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:16 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Interesting. David Mamet is an asshole. We weren't even testing for that.
posted by The Whelk at 7:19 AM on June 12, 2011 [23 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:19 AM on June 12, 2011 [23 favorites]
I think it's odd that Mamet is considered to have been a lefty. I'm not an expert on his work, by a long shot, but I'd put him more simply as a social critic. It just so happens that we tend to assume almost all culture work is "liberal" by default, because it always, to some extent, requires a questioning of What Is. But over the past few decades, the pomo genius of the Right has been to rebrand Liberalism as the establishment (with a ton of help from Liberalism itself), and Rightist thinking as the insurgency.
What I'm getting at is that the younger Mamet mostly was a cynic who didn't like "The Man". Now he's just decided that "The Man" is the Liberal Elites, not surprising if you constantly marinate your psyche in right-wing radio. And with his embrace of Palin, he's gone all the way to magical-thinking fascist.
I mean, if John Sayles had come out as a corporatist, I'd be shocked. Mamet? Not so much.
posted by mondo dentro at 7:27 AM on June 12, 2011 [20 favorites]
What I'm getting at is that the younger Mamet mostly was a cynic who didn't like "The Man". Now he's just decided that "The Man" is the Liberal Elites, not surprising if you constantly marinate your psyche in right-wing radio. And with his embrace of Palin, he's gone all the way to magical-thinking fascist.
I mean, if John Sayles had come out as a corporatist, I'd be shocked. Mamet? Not so much.
posted by mondo dentro at 7:27 AM on June 12, 2011 [20 favorites]
It was mentioned in the last thread, but DO NOT read Godzilla Vs Bambi expecting it to be fun and informative in the manner of Adventures In the Screentrade.
posted by Artw at 7:33 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:33 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
@Faze ...our culture would be much poorer without these freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries
I agree. And not only that, but great artists almost by definition transcend their own ideological boundaries.
But then, that is a very liberal thing for me to say!
posted by mondo dentro at 7:38 AM on June 12, 2011
I agree. And not only that, but great artists almost by definition transcend their own ideological boundaries.
But then, that is a very liberal thing for me to say!
posted by mondo dentro at 7:38 AM on June 12, 2011
Well there's that, and there's being actually crazy. He seems to have taken a turn towards that in the last decade.
I mean, Phil Spector is innocent? Really?
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on June 12, 2011
I mean, Phil Spector is innocent? Really?
posted by Artw at 7:41 AM on June 12, 2011
Mamet depicts the drama by reducing the two concepts to what he believes is their core, apparently learned from half a semester of high-school political science and a week of talk radio: The right practices logic and believes in individual freedom; the left is a cult which believes in the power of the government.
The chief issue with this fairy-tale presentation of politics is that politics has a certain reality, a paper trail, a collection of evidence, that makes such a simplistic division nothing more than a straw-man argument on an epic scale.
--from the AV Club review of Mamet's new book.
posted by box at 7:43 AM on June 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
The chief issue with this fairy-tale presentation of politics is that politics has a certain reality, a paper trail, a collection of evidence, that makes such a simplistic division nothing more than a straw-man argument on an epic scale.
--from the AV Club review of Mamet's new book.
posted by box at 7:43 AM on June 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
I think it's odd that Mamet is considered to have been a lefty.
Not so odd. He went to progressive school and a progressive college, styled his work after ur-lefty Harold Pinter and called himself a lefty. Plus he succeeded in a very lefty environment and has done work sneering at the Establishment. Pretty strong lefty credentials.
our culture would be much poorer without these freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries.
No accounting for taste, but even things of his that I did not know were things of his when I saw them I have found wanting. Though I did find his comment on the difficulty of plotting to be interesting. Frequently his own work fails miserably on that score.
Here, by the way, the FT review of his book mentioned in the profile.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:53 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Not so odd. He went to progressive school and a progressive college, styled his work after ur-lefty Harold Pinter and called himself a lefty. Plus he succeeded in a very lefty environment and has done work sneering at the Establishment. Pretty strong lefty credentials.
our culture would be much poorer without these freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries.
No accounting for taste, but even things of his that I did not know were things of his when I saw them I have found wanting. Though I did find his comment on the difficulty of plotting to be interesting. Frequently his own work fails miserably on that score.
Here, by the way, the FT review of his book mentioned in the profile.
posted by IndigoJones at 7:53 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
@box (via AV Club) The right practices logic and believes in individual freedom; the left is a cult which believes in the power of the government.
Again demonstrating an absolutely central feature of Rightist thinking: denial of the Self and projection onto the Other.
American leftist thinking is, at its very roots, of the Enlightenment. That's why it's full of wonkish and "boring" stuff. It strives for social justice, equality, and sustainability--and it does it by looking at the numbers and trying to devise bureaucracies with improved functionality. It has frequently failed, but that is its MO.
In contrast, rightism is absolutely cultish and magical: just believe more in God, in the Free Market, in Freedom, in the Traditional Family, in America, in Your Leaders... and your life will be a better. The treatment of Bush II in his Commander Codpiece role comes to mind, and candidates like Palin and Bachmann are the logical outcome of this worldview.
posted by mondo dentro at 7:59 AM on June 12, 2011 [21 favorites]
Again demonstrating an absolutely central feature of Rightist thinking: denial of the Self and projection onto the Other.
American leftist thinking is, at its very roots, of the Enlightenment. That's why it's full of wonkish and "boring" stuff. It strives for social justice, equality, and sustainability--and it does it by looking at the numbers and trying to devise bureaucracies with improved functionality. It has frequently failed, but that is its MO.
In contrast, rightism is absolutely cultish and magical: just believe more in God, in the Free Market, in Freedom, in the Traditional Family, in America, in Your Leaders... and your life will be a better. The treatment of Bush II in his Commander Codpiece role comes to mind, and candidates like Palin and Bachmann are the logical outcome of this worldview.
posted by mondo dentro at 7:59 AM on June 12, 2011 [21 favorites]
@IndigoJones He went to progressive school and a progressive college, styled his work after ur-lefty Harold Pinter and called himself a lefty. Plus he succeeded in a very lefty environment and has done work sneering at the Establishment. Pretty strong lefty credentials.
Yeah, I agree--but that was my point: he's a "lefty by association", not so much from his actual work.
posted by mondo dentro at 8:01 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I agree--but that was my point: he's a "lefty by association", not so much from his actual work.
posted by mondo dentro at 8:01 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
@Faze -- I appreciate your comment. I think you're right.
I am reading Mamet's book right now. I find it very interesting, mainly for exposing myself to opinions I don't generally hold. It's much easier for me to read those things that I agree with. I suppose many others find that true, too.
The book seems very odd to me, though. In all, it seems Mamet is very angry about a lot of things. I keep coming back to the image of Alec Baldwin delivering the mean-spirited speech in Glengarry. The book is a lot like that speech in many places. Listen to me because I am right and you're fucked. It's entertaining to be sure.
What I find disappointing about the book, however, is how superficial it is in some spots. Oh, there are many opinions of his I can get behind. They seemed well-reasoned, at least from his point of view, and I can see how he came to them. But there are other times when he seems to be simply swinging from one ideological stance to another. I don't understand that argument. If the Left is wrong for swallowing an ideology, something he points out often, then how is it any better to swallowing the entire ideology of whatever it is he's swallowing? In the end, you're still choosing one "religion" over another.
Probably the most disappointing section is when he speaks about the housing collapse. In general, he says that the reason many people lost (their home, their livelihood, their money) in that crash is because, by and large, they were greedy and didn't know what they were getting into. He wants to absolve the industry of any wrongdoing. He does not, for instance, bring up any of the criminal act that have been documented and places the problem squarely on people who bought the loans. I can sort of get behind the idea that the buyers should have understood what they were signing but how can you when the papers you sign may be swapped _after_ your signed them? How can you if the loan papers have your forged signatures on it? All documented abuses. He skips over these, anecdotes though they may be.
But in other places, a single anecdote from, say, a class he taught in which the discussion fell apart over whether a particular story's villain should be an Arab terrorist, is an example of how Liberal Arts education is turning young people into unemployable do-nothings.
I get the sense the David Mamet wants the world to be a lot simpler than it is. Don't we all! What I keeping wishing as I read it, though, is that he'll come to the understanding that he's choosing his worldview just like the "Left" and the "Liberals" he criticizes. That other shoe, so far, hasn't dropped.
posted by tcv at 8:08 AM on June 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
I am reading Mamet's book right now. I find it very interesting, mainly for exposing myself to opinions I don't generally hold. It's much easier for me to read those things that I agree with. I suppose many others find that true, too.
The book seems very odd to me, though. In all, it seems Mamet is very angry about a lot of things. I keep coming back to the image of Alec Baldwin delivering the mean-spirited speech in Glengarry. The book is a lot like that speech in many places. Listen to me because I am right and you're fucked. It's entertaining to be sure.
What I find disappointing about the book, however, is how superficial it is in some spots. Oh, there are many opinions of his I can get behind. They seemed well-reasoned, at least from his point of view, and I can see how he came to them. But there are other times when he seems to be simply swinging from one ideological stance to another. I don't understand that argument. If the Left is wrong for swallowing an ideology, something he points out often, then how is it any better to swallowing the entire ideology of whatever it is he's swallowing? In the end, you're still choosing one "religion" over another.
Probably the most disappointing section is when he speaks about the housing collapse. In general, he says that the reason many people lost (their home, their livelihood, their money) in that crash is because, by and large, they were greedy and didn't know what they were getting into. He wants to absolve the industry of any wrongdoing. He does not, for instance, bring up any of the criminal act that have been documented and places the problem squarely on people who bought the loans. I can sort of get behind the idea that the buyers should have understood what they were signing but how can you when the papers you sign may be swapped _after_ your signed them? How can you if the loan papers have your forged signatures on it? All documented abuses. He skips over these, anecdotes though they may be.
But in other places, a single anecdote from, say, a class he taught in which the discussion fell apart over whether a particular story's villain should be an Arab terrorist, is an example of how Liberal Arts education is turning young people into unemployable do-nothings.
I get the sense the David Mamet wants the world to be a lot simpler than it is. Don't we all! What I keeping wishing as I read it, though, is that he'll come to the understanding that he's choosing his worldview just like the "Left" and the "Liberals" he criticizes. That other shoe, so far, hasn't dropped.
posted by tcv at 8:08 AM on June 12, 2011 [7 favorites]
RIVER DEEP MOUNTAIN HIGH IS SOME OF TINA'S BEST WORK!
But Phil Spector? Yeah...he's guilty as shit. And batshit crazy too.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
But Phil Spector? Yeah...he's guilty as shit. And batshit crazy too.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
RIVER DEEP MOUNTAIN HIGH IS SOME OF TINA'S BEST WORK!
It's OK. "Proud Mary" and "Fool In Love" are better.
posted by jonmc at 8:20 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's OK. "Proud Mary" and "Fool In Love" are better.
posted by jonmc at 8:20 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I totally agree that Sarah Palin has succeed at everything she put her mind to. I disagree that she put her mind to any task other than the accumulation of attention.Mamet is probably around really stupid, empty headed, liberals pretty often and that has to grate on you. I imagine it would be tempting to define yourself against that. His positions on issues they aren't even particularly conservative. Or even there. He seems to just like the imagined attitude of conservatives. The mythology of it all. The lack of contrition and muscularity of the whole thing. It's a very emotional sort of thing and any interest in policy comes second. It's sort of a highschool Nietzsche thing going on. Yay to strength Nay to weakness.
posted by I Foody at 8:26 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by I Foody at 8:26 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
I'm not sure I'd really describe Glengary Glenn Ross as a ringing endorsement of capitalist values.
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on June 12, 2011
posted by Artw at 8:30 AM on June 12, 2011
I'm not sure I'd really describe Glengary Glenn Ross as a ringing endorsement of capitalist values.
Yeah, but it's not particularly "leftist" either, in that it's just raging. It doesn't suggest that anything different is possible, nor that it needs to be.
(FWIW, I love Glengarry Glenn Ross.)
posted by mondo dentro at 8:36 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but it's not particularly "leftist" either, in that it's just raging. It doesn't suggest that anything different is possible, nor that it needs to be.
(FWIW, I love Glengarry Glenn Ross.)
posted by mondo dentro at 8:36 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
"[Sarah Palin] has succeeded at everything she has put her mind to."
I beat Mamet to a similar observation over two years ago.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:40 AM on June 12, 2011
I beat Mamet to a similar observation over two years ago.
posted by octobersurprise at 8:40 AM on June 12, 2011
People frequently forget that Mamet is so masculine in thought and deportment that he is frequently the subject of night-time fantasias by domesticated ruminants.
posted by The Whelk at 8:59 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 8:59 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
“You get rich through luck. You get rich through crime. You get rich through fulfilling the needs of another. You can be as greedy as you like. If you can’t do one of those three things, you ain’t going to get any money.”
If there is an argument in favour of the unfettered free market in there somewhere, I am totally missing it.
posted by dry white toast at 9:03 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
If there is an argument in favour of the unfettered free market in there somewhere, I am totally missing it.
posted by dry white toast at 9:03 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry I bothered reading that. He doesn't sound like a lone voice in the wilderness crying out unwelcome truths, as Faze would have it; instead, he sounds like an ignoramus who listens to a lot of right-wing talk radio.
posted by facetious at 9:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by facetious at 9:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
SPONSORED BY BRAIN EATER.
Yum, yum, yum.
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 9:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yum, yum, yum.
posted by cristinacristinacristina at 9:11 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
I'm really afraid something like this is going to happen to me when I get older because dementia runs in my family.
posted by fuq at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by fuq at 9:14 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
If there is an argument in favour of the unfettered free market in there somewhere, I am totally missing it.
I think Dave's trying to say that it's hard out there for a pimp.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:19 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think Dave's trying to say that it's hard out there for a pimp.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:19 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
The social safety net is for closers.
posted by gerryblog at 9:25 AM on June 12, 2011 [18 favorites]
posted by gerryblog at 9:25 AM on June 12, 2011 [18 favorites]
He's a North American Baby-Boomer. The most privileged, selfish, spoiled group to have ever had the luck to be born. They don't believe in anything but themselves. Like PJ O'Rourke, Mamet believes what ever is best for him at the time, ultimately though nothing.
I'm guessing most of you aren't Boomers; I am, though of the lower orders. They exhibit the same selfish attitudes and behaviours down here too.
Don't be fooled by their sophisticated rationalizations. They've just had more time than most of you to practice spinning their solipsism.
posted by larry_darrell at 9:29 AM on June 12, 2011 [14 favorites]
I'm guessing most of you aren't Boomers; I am, though of the lower orders. They exhibit the same selfish attitudes and behaviours down here too.
Don't be fooled by their sophisticated rationalizations. They've just had more time than most of you to practice spinning their solipsism.
posted by larry_darrell at 9:29 AM on June 12, 2011 [14 favorites]
Y'know, what comes to mind is " development of courage" when I read this article - perhaps we've been looking at Mamet's work wrong.
Perhaps the reason why he invested so much time in crafting flinty evil douchebag sociopaths is the same reason that closeted writers write stories with well-rounded, fabulous gay characters. .....congratulations on coming out Dave-O!.
What should we call "coming out" for proto-fascists?
posted by lalochezia at 9:33 AM on June 12, 2011
Perhaps the reason why he invested so much time in crafting flinty evil douchebag sociopaths is the same reason that closeted writers write stories with well-rounded, fabulous gay characters. .....congratulations on coming out Dave-O!.
What should we call "coming out" for proto-fascists?
posted by lalochezia at 9:33 AM on June 12, 2011
What should we call "coming out" for proto-fascists?
Unmasking?
posted by ian1977 at 9:34 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Unmasking?
posted by ian1977 at 9:34 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
"[Sarah Palin] has succeeded at everything she has put her mind to."
That's why she's Vice President right now.
posted by scalefree at 9:51 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
That's why she's Vice President right now.
posted by scalefree at 9:51 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
“Yes!” he exclaims. “Of course! I mean you Brits ... ” He smiles ruefully. “I love the British. Whatever education I have comes from reading your writers and yet, time and time again, for example reading Trollope, there is the stock Jew. Even in George Eliot, God bless her. And the authors of today ... I’m not going to mention names because of your horrendous libel laws but there are famous dramatists and novelists over there whose works are full of anti-Semitic filth. There is a profound and ineradicable taint of anti-Semitism in the British ...
Trollope I'll grant (well, up to a point), but George Eliot? Eliot is usually noted for her philo-semitism, so it's a bit odd to find her featuring in a list of anti-Semitic novelists. If Mamet wants to argue that English literature is profoundly tainted with anti-Semitism, George Eliot is about the worst example he could have chosen.
posted by verstegan at 9:52 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Trollope I'll grant (well, up to a point), but George Eliot? Eliot is usually noted for her philo-semitism, so it's a bit odd to find her featuring in a list of anti-Semitic novelists. If Mamet wants to argue that English literature is profoundly tainted with anti-Semitism, George Eliot is about the worst example he could have chosen.
posted by verstegan at 9:52 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Ricocheting between ideological extremes is not "freewheelin"." It signifies a lack of ethical compass. Mamet is just another entertainer who struck it rich who has decided, in retrospect, that them that's got the gold should make the rules. Ronald Reagan is only the most prominent of this tribe.
I hope Mamet enjoys spending his money after he's dead.
posted by rdone at 9:57 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
I hope Mamet enjoys spending his money after he's dead.
posted by rdone at 9:57 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
I don’t know but she seems to have succeeded at everything she put her hand to.”
Must.Resist.Joke.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:17 AM on June 12, 2011
Must.Resist.Joke.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 10:17 AM on June 12, 2011
Every Mamet interview should be titled 'Get off my lawn'. It would make life so much simpler.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:18 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 10:18 AM on June 12, 2011 [6 favorites]
I just listened to Slate magazine's Culturefest podcast about the Mamet conversion, and Steven Metcalfe said something about how Mamet's gift is in portraying testosterone driven power relationships through dialogue. That is his gift. Outside of that area, Mamet verges on being a simpleton.
Given the lack of intellectual sophistication of his conservativism, and the conservative voices he is being influenced by, I can believe it when Mamet says he was a 'Brain Dead Liberal'. But now, because he's realized HIS liberalism was brain dead, he thinks liberalism itself is brain dead.
Do pop psychologists still talk about "projecting"? Because Mamet sure seems to do a lot of projecting.
I wanted to say one more thing about my experience reading "Bambi Vs Godzilla." At a point while I was reading the book, I started to question not just whether the book was any good, but whether I was dealing with much of a mind.
posted by Trochanter at 10:30 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Given the lack of intellectual sophistication of his conservativism, and the conservative voices he is being influenced by, I can believe it when Mamet says he was a 'Brain Dead Liberal'. But now, because he's realized HIS liberalism was brain dead, he thinks liberalism itself is brain dead.
Do pop psychologists still talk about "projecting"? Because Mamet sure seems to do a lot of projecting.
I wanted to say one more thing about my experience reading "Bambi Vs Godzilla." At a point while I was reading the book, I started to question not just whether the book was any good, but whether I was dealing with much of a mind.
posted by Trochanter at 10:30 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
his production of the Ramones' "Rock and Roll High School"
One of my favorite parts of the doc End of the Century is various band members detailing how Specter held a gun on them until they got it "right".
posted by Roman Graves at 10:46 AM on June 12, 2011
One of my favorite parts of the doc End of the Century is various band members detailing how Specter held a gun on them until they got it "right".
posted by Roman Graves at 10:46 AM on June 12, 2011
Given the lack of intellectual sophistication of his conservativism, and the conservative voices he is being influenced by, I can believe it when Mamet says he was a 'Brain Dead Liberal'. But now, because he's realized HIS liberalism was brain dead, he thinks liberalism itself is brain dead.
Yes! This is exactly what I am experiencing while reading his book. His writing (and speaking, apparently) lacks a precision I suppose I expected from a writer of his calibre.
It's just like the "succeeded at everything" comment. Certainly he doesn't mean that Palin has succeeded at everything, because that's demonstrably false.
But I do think that, yes, he does mean literally everything.
posted by tcv at 10:47 AM on June 12, 2011
Yes! This is exactly what I am experiencing while reading his book. His writing (and speaking, apparently) lacks a precision I suppose I expected from a writer of his calibre.
It's just like the "succeeded at everything" comment. Certainly he doesn't mean that Palin has succeeded at everything, because that's demonstrably false.
But I do think that, yes, he does mean literally everything.
posted by tcv at 10:47 AM on June 12, 2011
Yeah, I agree--but that was my point: he's a "lefty by association", not so much from his actual work.
Okay, claro. Mind you, I'm not sure I see it in the work, though I haven't seen it all. Nothing Ayn Rand like in it, I mean. Did anyone else think his work suggested a righty spirit? Again, I'm not up enough on his work to know one way or the other.
posted by IndigoJones at 10:50 AM on June 12, 2011
Mamet's gift is in portraying testosterone driven power relationships through dialogue...
Right. But isn't that precisely one of the main irrational hooks into the human psyche of right-wing extremism?
...Outside of that area, Mamet verges on being a simpleton. Given the lack of intellectual sophistication of his conservativism...
Which is, by no coincidence, the character of the dominant "conservatism" in the US, Andrew Sullivan's efforts notwithstanding.
posted by mondo dentro at 10:57 AM on June 12, 2011
Right. But isn't that precisely one of the main irrational hooks into the human psyche of right-wing extremism?
...Outside of that area, Mamet verges on being a simpleton. Given the lack of intellectual sophistication of his conservativism...
Which is, by no coincidence, the character of the dominant "conservatism" in the US, Andrew Sullivan's efforts notwithstanding.
posted by mondo dentro at 10:57 AM on June 12, 2011
I was going to type out a long defense of Mamet, but then I read someone describing "River Deep Mountain High" as merely "OK" and now I realize we live in a meaningless and cold universe and everyone dies alone.
posted by Bookhouse at 11:01 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Bookhouse at 11:01 AM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Talented writer becomes paranoid, mean-spirited, and shallow asshole in old age. Why does this trope play itself out over and over again? It may not happen to all or most writers, but when it does, it's like they're following a script to the letter.
posted by treepour at 11:01 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by treepour at 11:01 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
If Mamet wants to argue that English literature is profoundly tainted with anti-Semitism, George Eliot is about the worst example he could have chosen.
Did she support the state of Israel's right to exist and defend itself?
No?
QED.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:04 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
Did she support the state of Israel's right to exist and defend itself?
No?
QED.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:04 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
Did anyone else think his work suggested a righty spirit?
I would say not so much ideologically, as temperamentally. Machismo, impatience for fancy thinking, cynical belief that all that matters in the world is raw power... that sort of thing.
The extreme right (fascism and variants) is not about sophisticated argumentation--it's all about grabbing the id of the masses by the balls.
So this sort of "you kids, get off my lawn" ranting, when mapped into the political sphere, is very right-wing.
posted by mondo dentro at 11:05 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would say not so much ideologically, as temperamentally. Machismo, impatience for fancy thinking, cynical belief that all that matters in the world is raw power... that sort of thing.
The extreme right (fascism and variants) is not about sophisticated argumentation--it's all about grabbing the id of the masses by the balls.
So this sort of "you kids, get off my lawn" ranting, when mapped into the political sphere, is very right-wing.
posted by mondo dentro at 11:05 AM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Mamet is an asshole?
Yes, asshole.
Did you say asshole?
Asshole, as in the hole of an ass, an ass with a hole in it.
Yes.
posted by telstar at 11:06 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
Yes, asshole.
Did you say asshole?
Asshole, as in the hole of an ass, an ass with a hole in it.
Yes.
posted by telstar at 11:06 AM on June 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
As we eat our salads—I have ordered beetroot salad with goat cheese, chives, and shallots—I take the opportunity of having this master craftsman in front of me to ask about writing.
Hilarious.
posted by ovvl at 11:32 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
Hilarious.
posted by ovvl at 11:32 AM on June 12, 2011 [4 favorites]
David Mamet is his own man.
If he held onto that harder, less would leak out.
posted by Twang at 11:41 AM on June 12, 2011
If he held onto that harder, less would leak out.
posted by Twang at 11:41 AM on June 12, 2011
That picture in the FT strangely reminds me of someone...
posted by aeshnid at 11:42 AM on June 12, 2011
posted by aeshnid at 11:42 AM on June 12, 2011
Yeah, I wish he would put all his energy into films like Spartan instead of crap like that book.
posted by e40 at 12:27 PM on June 12, 2011
posted by e40 at 12:27 PM on June 12, 2011
People frequently forget that Mamet is so masculine in thought and deportment that he is frequently the subject of night-time fantasias by domesticated ruminants.
His look is a parody of butch. Or a real extreme submissive.
posted by Trochanter at 1:53 PM on June 12, 2011
His look is a parody of butch. Or a real extreme submissive.
posted by Trochanter at 1:53 PM on June 12, 2011
I mention Sarah Palin. “I am crazy about her,” he answers immediately. “Would she make a good candidate for president? I don’t know but she seems to have succeeded at everything she put her hand to.”
Yes, we all have to be grateful to her for giving us our first black President.
posted by jamjam at 2:18 PM on June 12, 2011
Yes, we all have to be grateful to her for giving us our first black President.
posted by jamjam at 2:18 PM on June 12, 2011
Trochanter, I wish I could favorite your comment again.
I have always wondered what people see in Mamet. Every time I bothered to watch something he wrote, I finished wondering what the big deal is. The best example of that would be Red Belt. I've trained Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for 10 years, and I was so excited, so excited!, to hear that this famous playwright had written a movie about jiu-jitsu. Surely, I thought, this will be The Shit.
Man, the plot of that movie gargled herpetic goat asshole. The plot completely failed at (in Mamet's own words) being "surprising and yet inevitable." The only redeeming point in the whole goddamn film was that it featured a virtual hall of fame of real martial artists cast in bit parts.
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 3:16 PM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
I have always wondered what people see in Mamet. Every time I bothered to watch something he wrote, I finished wondering what the big deal is. The best example of that would be Red Belt. I've trained Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu for 10 years, and I was so excited, so excited!, to hear that this famous playwright had written a movie about jiu-jitsu. Surely, I thought, this will be The Shit.
Man, the plot of that movie gargled herpetic goat asshole. The plot completely failed at (in Mamet's own words) being "surprising and yet inevitable." The only redeeming point in the whole goddamn film was that it featured a virtual hall of fame of real martial artists cast in bit parts.
posted by HighTechUnderpants at 3:16 PM on June 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
...the plot of that movie gargled herpetic goat asshole...
Wow. I do not believe it is possible to disincentivize me from watching that movie any more than you just did...
posted by mondo dentro at 3:26 PM on June 12, 2011
Wow. I do not believe it is possible to disincentivize me from watching that movie any more than you just did...
posted by mondo dentro at 3:26 PM on June 12, 2011
Look, the guy who wrote Glengarry Glen Ross, House of Games, The Spanish Prisoner, Oleanna and State and Main gets a free pass to say and write whatever he wants for the rest of his life and I will continue to pay to read it.
posted by eugenen at 3:49 PM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by eugenen at 3:49 PM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
It's true, eugenen. I agree. But he's still a dick.
posted by mondo dentro at 3:59 PM on June 12, 2011
posted by mondo dentro at 3:59 PM on June 12, 2011
I have always wondered what people see in Mamet. Every time I bothered to watch something he wrote, I finished wondering what the big deal is. The best example of that would be Red Belt.
Well, that's your problem right there. I'm a huge Mamet fan and Red Belt is 100% a piece of shit. I don't know anyone who thought that was a masterpiece. Now, if you see Glengarry Glen Ross, American Buffalo, Sexual Perversity in Chicago, House of Games, The Spanish Prisoner, and/or State and Main and still don't get why other people like him, then I don't know what to tell you.
posted by Bookhouse at 4:23 PM on June 12, 2011
Well, that's your problem right there. I'm a huge Mamet fan and Red Belt is 100% a piece of shit. I don't know anyone who thought that was a masterpiece. Now, if you see Glengarry Glen Ross, American Buffalo, Sexual Perversity in Chicago, House of Games, The Spanish Prisoner, and/or State and Main and still don't get why other people like him, then I don't know what to tell you.
posted by Bookhouse at 4:23 PM on June 12, 2011
That's so strange to read. I mean, I thought David Mamet was one of the smart ones. Brainy. Genius. I looked up to him as a kind of epitome of the intellectual who wrote and directed cerebral yet highly entertaining films. But Jesus, now the man sounds like Glen Beck. Sarah Palin?? For real, David, you like Sarah Palin? The genius likes the idiot. That's enough cognitive dissonance for one day.
posted by zardoz at 5:16 PM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 5:16 PM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
David Mamet is his own man. He's like Zizek, Naomi Wolf and Noam Chomsky -- our culture would be much poorer without these freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries.
I don't think David Mamet is his own man in the way these other people are. When some annoying left wing kid says some cliche, it's probably because he read it or heard it from Chomsky. But David Mamet is that annoying kid saying some cliche he heard from some right wing thinker somewhere.
It's not that putting David Mamet in the same category as Chomsky, Zizek, and Wolf is an insult to any of those four people. It's an insult to the conservatives who are actual freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries but have to face the fact that a cliche-repeating shallow annoying guy like Mamet is getting all the attention.
posted by deanc at 8:25 PM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I don't think David Mamet is his own man in the way these other people are. When some annoying left wing kid says some cliche, it's probably because he read it or heard it from Chomsky. But David Mamet is that annoying kid saying some cliche he heard from some right wing thinker somewhere.
It's not that putting David Mamet in the same category as Chomsky, Zizek, and Wolf is an insult to any of those four people. It's an insult to the conservatives who are actual freewheelin' writers who don't respect your or my ideological boundaries but have to face the fact that a cliche-repeating shallow annoying guy like Mamet is getting all the attention.
posted by deanc at 8:25 PM on June 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
This has been another episode of "You Can Enjoy the Art Even if the Artist is an Asshole."
posted by Splunge at 11:14 PM on June 12, 2011
posted by Splunge at 11:14 PM on June 12, 2011
David Mamet is just living out one of his movies, layering con games atop more con games. This time, Ricky Jay gets both stabbed and shot. The camera will fade out on Mamet smirking just over the audience's collective shoulders, right after his murderous double-crossers exeunt the stage empty-handed.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:55 AM on June 13, 2011
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:55 AM on June 13, 2011
This has been another episode of "You Can Enjoy the Art Even if the Artist is an Asshole."
Sure, except in Mamet's case he hasn't been doing anything interesting in more than a decade, so it's more an episode of: "Irrelevant artist has become obnoxious, you can freely ignore him now."
posted by Omon Ra at 4:52 AM on June 13, 2011
Sure, except in Mamet's case he hasn't been doing anything interesting in more than a decade, so it's more an episode of: "Irrelevant artist has become obnoxious, you can freely ignore him now."
posted by Omon Ra at 4:52 AM on June 13, 2011
Almost exactly a decade, in my opinion. Heist has some flaws but it also has spectacular performances from Danny DeVito and Gene Hackman and some really top-notch dialog.
posted by Bookhouse at 8:24 AM on June 13, 2011
posted by Bookhouse at 8:24 AM on June 13, 2011
David Mamet discusses free-market economists, studying Kaballah, Aristotle's conception of drama, Tennessee William's expensive habit, and his love for Sarah Palin.
*tiny lightbulb flickers over head*
Ohmigaw. I just realized what rubs me the wrong way about Sarah Palin.
She comes across JUST LIKE a David Mamet character.
David Mamet may get a certain type of dialogue and character type well, but...he's pretty two-note when it comes to women characters -- they're either really weak and clingy, or they're ballbusters. Sarah Palin is so much like a David Mamet character.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:45 AM on June 13, 2011
*tiny lightbulb flickers over head*
Ohmigaw. I just realized what rubs me the wrong way about Sarah Palin.
She comes across JUST LIKE a David Mamet character.
David Mamet may get a certain type of dialogue and character type well, but...he's pretty two-note when it comes to women characters -- they're either really weak and clingy, or they're ballbusters. Sarah Palin is so much like a David Mamet character.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:45 AM on June 13, 2011
I look forward to watching Glengarry Glenn Beck.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:56 AM on June 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:56 AM on June 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
Christopher Hitchens reviews David Mamet for the NYT Book Review. LOL.
posted by R. Mutt at 6:26 AM on June 18, 2011
posted by R. Mutt at 6:26 AM on June 18, 2011
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