'Jackass' Star Ryan Dunn Dead in Car Crash

June 20, 2011 8:27 AM

'Jackass' star Ryan Dunn has died at age 34 from injuries sustained in a car crash .
posted by Tenacious.Me.Tokyo (252 comments total)

The picture of the tow truck taking away the wreckage is terrible- that doesn't look anything like a car anymore. Hope the passengers didn't suffer too greatly.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:29 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Shit.
posted by Shfishp at 8:32 AM on June 20, 2011

Hope the passengers didn't suffer too greatly

They also died.
posted by ryanrs at 8:33 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Oh man. Tragic.

I don't think a star of Jackass dying in a drunk driving accident rises to the level of tragic.
posted by empath at 8:33 AM on June 20, 2011 [27 favorites]

Oh, my. He was always my favorite. So sad.
posted by obeetaybee at 8:34 AM on June 20, 2011

Ask not for whom the ass jacks.
posted by isopraxis at 8:35 AM on June 20, 2011 [9 favorites]

Anti-eponysterical? He's still survived by family and friends, regardless of how and why he died.
posted by longbaugh at 8:36 AM on June 20, 2011 [10 favorites]

110 mph, man. I can't imagine being so drunk to think that it's not only a good idea to get behind the wheel of a car, but also that it's fine to drive twice the speed limit.
posted by something something at 8:36 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

This post misses one key element: his last tweet linked to his tumblr blog showing him getting super drunk with friends. The photo was taken 2hrs before he died. Drunk driving kills.
posted by mathowie at 8:40 AM on June 20, 2011 [42 favorites]

empath: "I don't think a star of Jackass dying in a drunk driving accident rises to the level of tragic."

I'm no fan of Jackass (like, at all), but I don't see anything here that definitely states (1) this is due to drunk driving and (2) that Ryann Dunn was behind the wheel. Am I missing something?
posted by brundlefly at 8:41 AM on June 20, 2011

It's the second act of Final Destination: Jackass.
posted by localroger at 8:41 AM on June 20, 2011

.
posted by cashman at 8:42 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

.
posted by echolalia67 at 8:43 AM on June 20, 2011

Who would ever have thought that a man-boy best known for his pranks and stunts undertaken with an utter disregard for the safety of himself and those around him would die young in the same manner?
posted by kcds at 8:44 AM on June 20, 2011 [13 favorites]

Just watched 3.5 last night. Thanks for the laughs, dude.
posted by stinkycheese at 8:44 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:47 AM on June 20, 2011

The tweeted photo, and the image of the scrap metal being hauled away should be put on billboards across the country instead of those xADD logotypes. Maybe it will help?
posted by seanmpuckett at 8:49 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

If indeed he was driving drunk, then the only thing tragic in this accident is the death of his passengers. His death is just fine by me, and as it likely wasn't his first time doing it, it's a damn shame it didn't come sooner before he took other people with him.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:49 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

.

Sad, but for some reason I always figured Steve-O would go first. Really, I wanted them all to get old and retire to some nursing home or something.
posted by HostBryan at 8:50 AM on June 20, 2011

He seemed like a good guy underneath all the Jackass stuff.

.
posted by naju at 8:51 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Horselover Phattie: "Well, it seems their bodies are charred beyond any possibility of blood alcohol testing, so we'll have to go on pictures and testimony from others he was with. It's a pretty safe bet that someone out driving at 3:30 AM after posting pictures of drinking was probably driving while impaired."

Yeah, which is a all very circumstantial. He may very well have been drinking and driving, but I don't feel comfortable besmirching his reputation or dismissing his death as "not tragic" without something more solid.
posted by brundlefly at 8:52 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

Anyone dying is sad, but I'm a lot sorrier about the passengers than for the guy driving, if he really was driving drunk. I'm just glad he didn't kill a bus load of people.
posted by Forktine at 8:52 AM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

his last tweet linked to his tumblr blog showing him getting super drunk with friends.

I dunno. Is there anything about that photo that says "super-drunk", as opposed to "drinking"? I think many people could have a drink and then two-hours later be sober enough to drive.
posted by craichead at 8:53 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

And also, honestly, if he drove drunk (presumably he did) it was an idiotic thing to do and we all know it was, but I don't think an obituary thread is the best place for sanctimony.
posted by HostBryan at 8:53 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

Brundlefly is right. Let me reemphasize my "if indeed he was driving drunk" preface.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:53 AM on June 20, 2011

And also, do we know who was driving? I think the article says that it's not clear.
posted by craichead at 8:54 AM on June 20, 2011

(but not wanting other people to suffer the losses I and possibly others here have is not 'sanctimony')
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:55 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

It it was on that day in June that Metafilter officially became a parody of itself.
posted by Optamystic at 8:55 AM on June 20, 2011 [12 favorites]

He was famous for the toy car up the colon x-ray

Some say we cease to exist at death. I say we live on in the lives we touched and the stuff we shoved up our ass. Memento mori.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:56 AM on June 20, 2011 [29 favorites]

John Kenneth Fisher: His death is just fine by me, and as it likely wasn't his first time doing it, it's a damn shame it didn't come sooner before he took other people with him.

Hi there. Did you read either article? Let me quote it for you:

Dunn and an unidentified person both died in the crash which happened around 3 a.m. at Route 322 and New Street in West Goshen Township. It's unclear who was driving the car.

What was the last sentence? How about you hold off on your judgement until there actually is fact?
posted by Mister Fabulous at 8:57 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

Fisher - "Sanctimony" is too strong a word, I apologize and I am sorry for your loss.
posted by HostBryan at 8:58 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

G'night, Dunn. You'll be missed by some, mocked by others, and that is the way things were and are.

Requiescat in pace.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 8:59 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

It sucks when people die, but if this is where the bar is set for Metafilter obituary threads, there will probably need to be a satellite site for them.
posted by Nabubrush at 9:01 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:02 AM on June 20, 2011

But the guy who let the snake bite his balls is OK, right? Right???
posted by orthogonality at 9:02 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Hi there. Did you read my preface? Let me quote it for you:

If indeed he was driving drunk

Did you read my followup?

Brundlefly is right. Let me reemphasize my "if indeed he was driving drunk" preface.

How about you hold off on your judgement until you read what I wrote?

As for hostbryan, I took no offense. I'm too close to this so I'll bow out for a bit, but I don't think obituary threads are required to be hagiographical here on Metafilter. We're not exactly at his wake.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:04 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Excellent! So now two links from TMZ and The Daily Mail are all we need to know every single fact about everything that happens in the world to the point we can pile on a corpse. BOO YA!
posted by spicynuts at 9:04 AM on June 20, 2011

This makes me more sad than I would have anticipated, although Dunn was always my favorite Jackass. Particularly in their younger years, there was something striking about these young men inflicting pain on each other and laughing about it, like indolent shirtless gods testing their immortality.

I suppose it simply was, at the end of the day, pretty damn punk rock.

.
posted by jess at 9:06 AM on June 20, 2011 [11 favorites]

.

Guy make me fucking laugh. A lot.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:07 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

It sounds like a death that was tragic and stupid and preventable. All three.

We do not have to debate for the benefit of collective judgement which one of these it was.
posted by ardgedee at 9:07 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

I went to school around there and the road he is on is pretty dangerous to go that fast on.
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 9:08 AM on June 20, 2011

110 mph, man.

He shall be mist.
posted by hal9k at 9:09 AM on June 20, 2011 [14 favorites]

I don't think obituary threads are required to be hagiographical here on Metafilter.

There has to be some middle ground, though, between hagiography and dancing on someone's corpse because of sins that we only assume they've committed. He may have been drunk, and he may have been driving. But right now the evidence for either is pretty thin. And honestly, I'd think someone's premature death was tragic even if it were their fault.
posted by craichead at 9:09 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

but if this is where the bar is set for Metafilter obituary threads, there will probably need to be a satellite site for them.

This is an extreme obit thread for a young man who lead an extreme life. I seriously wonder how the discussion could go any other way, and whether Ryan Dunn would want it to. A few choice words from the first NWA album come to mind:

"Role model? Do I look like some mothefuckin' role model?"


.
posted by philip-random at 9:10 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Sad, but for some reason I always figured Steve-O would go first. Really, I wanted them all to get old and retire to some nursing home or something.

I think Steve-O is the Keith Richards of Jackass and will outlive all of the rest of the cast and possibly everyone reading this thread right now. Some people are just hard to kill.
posted by Copronymus at 9:11 AM on June 20, 2011 [5 favorites]

HostBryan: Sad, but for some reason I always figured Steve-O would go first. Really, I wanted them all to get old and retire to some nursing home or something.

He's been clean and sober for a while. From an interview last November:

"Initially, my thinking was, 'I'm Steve O! I'm in the position where I can do a lot of good in the world. If I turn my life around I can lead by example,'" Steve-O -- whose real name is Stephen Glover -- told PopEater. "I had a crazy idea that I was going to be doing the rest of the world a big favor if I got clean and sober. That's what gave me the willingness to go to rehab.

And his first quote from the interview is surprising: "I don't think it's terribly surprising. I think it's a barometer of the downward spiral of our society. The more popular 'Jackass' is, the more trouble our society is in."

Young gods turned mortal realize life is serious, it seems.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:12 AM on June 20, 2011 [8 favorites]

Steve-O is not only sober now, but also vegan. Seriously.
posted by something something at 9:12 AM on June 20, 2011

My sympathies to his loved ones.
posted by 8dot3 at 9:12 AM on June 20, 2011

.
posted by ph00dz at 9:12 AM on June 20, 2011

Saying you don't want other people to suffer the loss of a loved one to an accident involving a drunk driver is a strange justification for being glad that someone died in an accident caused by a drunk driver.

Leaving aside the fact that we have no idea if he was a)drunk or b)driving, taking any kind of happiness in the death of another human being is a reprehensible emotion. If this guy was a chronic drunk driver, killed in an accidents caused by his own intoxication (which of course none of you know), he's still a human being.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 9:14 AM on June 20, 2011 [7 favorites]

When I saw this posted, I thought oh dear, this thread can't end well.

Regardless of who was driving, this is an awful thing. It's easy to grab for some cheap and obvious laughs but somewhere, someone is really hurting as a result of this so I have a hard time larking it up.
posted by kinnakeet at 9:14 AM on June 20, 2011

... but I don't feel comfortable besmirching his reputation ... .

i'm confused. how does one besmirch the reputation of one of the jackass guys? wasn't that the whole schtick of jackass?
posted by msconduct at 9:15 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

To those complaining we're not taking this seriously enough, not appreciating the tragedy of it: when did any of the Jackasses ever take anything seriously? Are we really dishonoring Ryan Dunn by not being appropriately somber and maturely adult when discussing his -- you have to admit this -- dramatic yet undignified death?

And let's be honest: Ryan and his fellow Jackasses made stupid and irresponsible stuntery a lifestyle; it's silly to admonish us for daring to speculate that -- after he died in a fiery car crash at 110 miles per hour, after a night of self-documented drinking, no less -- that maybe, just maybe, he died as he lived: stupidly and irresponsibly and perhaps involved in a final, fatal, dare or stunt.
posted by orthogonality at 9:16 AM on June 20, 2011 [23 favorites]

( )*( )
posted by louche mustachio at 9:18 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

It's easy to grab for some cheap and obvious laughs but somewhere, someone is really hurting as a result of this so I have a hard time larking it up.

Coincidentally, this is exactly why his videos never made one dime off me.
posted by hal9k at 9:22 AM on June 20, 2011 [7 favorites]

I could be missing it, but I don't see anything in the article to indicate that he was even the one driving. He could have been the passenger, couldn't he?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:23 AM on June 20, 2011

I also don't see where the speed of the car was reported. Where is everyone getting 110 from?
posted by 8dot3 at 9:25 AM on June 20, 2011

Yes, that's entirely possible. We don't know which was drunk driving. And for the record, I never said I was glad he was dead. Just that if someone is going to drive drunk and kill someone else, it would be better, not good, but better, if they had killed themselves first.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:26 AM on June 20, 2011

Live young, die fast. RIP Ryan.
posted by R.Stornoway at 9:27 AM on June 20, 2011

I got 110 mph from the wikipedia link. TMZ is also now reporting that police have confirmed he was driving.
posted by something something at 9:28 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Ah, I didn't look at the wikipedia link, just at the two news articles. Thanks.
posted by 8dot3 at 9:31 AM on June 20, 2011

I believe someone up thread said that they should take the tweet pic taken pre and the pic of what was left of his car afterward and turn it into a billboard and I couldn't agree more. Was he driving? Who knows. Was he drunk? Again, who knows. You have to admit though that the pictures do paint a powerful story. I'm not going to sit here and piss on his memory though; he was a Jackass alum, sure, but he was 34 years old. Some father's day gift to his dad.
posted by Jaymzifer at 9:31 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Aside from the incredible danger It would have posed for other motorists, pedestrians, trees and buildings, which of course makes drunk driving reprehensible. I kind of hope he was drunk as hell, driving 110 and while his buddy and him passed a bottle back and forth laughing the whole time.
posted by Ad hominem at 9:32 AM on June 20, 2011

Young gods turned mortal realize life is serious, it seems.

I remember being young enough to not necessarily think I was immortal but to have little grasp on the concept of my own mortality. I did foolish things, not because I didn't intellectually believe I could be severely injured or killed, but because the concept wasn't deeply real to me.

I sometimes wonder if, for people like the Jackass guys, there isn't an extra level of that. They've made a living of doing things that should fuck them right up or kill them, and they always get back up, battered but still alive.

I've known people like that, who do crazy, dangerous, stupid things all the time. They get knocked down hard on a regular basis as the rest of us watch between our fingers as we cover our faces, but they just brush themselves off and carry on like it's no big deal.

Sometimes, though there's that one last time that they don't get up. And it's always kind of shocking, because you deep down you also started believing it wouldn't happen.
posted by louche mustachio at 9:34 AM on June 20, 2011 [8 favorites]

This is a Jackass star. How do we know anyone was driving?
posted by mazola at 9:39 AM on June 20, 2011 [5 favorites]

.

He always struck me as being the Bill Murray of the Jackass crew.
posted by Lucien Dark at 9:39 AM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

This is an extreme obit thread for a young man who lead an extreme life. I seriously wonder how the discussion could go any other way, and whether Ryan Dunn would want it to.

My point was more that if this is all the more notoriety one needs to be memorialized here then there will be many more obit threads than there used to be. Hell, I posted the Ted Stevens obit and it was more extreme than the "esteemed" Senator was in life.
posted by Nabubrush at 9:40 AM on June 20, 2011

If it turns out that like a camel was driving you guys are going to feel reeeeeeally silly.

A tragedy indeed whether or not anyone (especially the camel) was drunk. I like the Jackass dudes partially because they have been acknowledging more and more that the whole genre they invented is actually quite nihilistic and gratuitous. There's something inherently dark about doing stunts, something that relies on both viewer and performer teasing death. Maybe this accident will cause them to be able to break free and analyze their own careers with ever more clarity, or maybe it will even cause even more insane antics. Either way, Ave, Mssr Dunn, morituri te salutant, and all that biz.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 9:48 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

As a side note, the car he was driving was a 2007 Porsche 911 GT3 (that can do 0-60 in 3.4 seconds with a speedometer that goes up to 225mph!)

To do anything less than triple digit speed in that car would have been silly.
posted by wcfields at 9:53 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm wondering whythe car caught fire. That's not a given in a 'one-car collision' (which I assume means he hit a tree).

I haven't watched the Jackass movies, though of course I know of them through their notoriety. I can't imagine any of the guys from the movies could have gotten life insurance, if it had even occurred to them that, given the risks they often took, it might be a good idea. I just hope this guy didn't leave behind a wife or kids (I doubt it as they aren't mentioned in the obituary).

And it's always sad when someone young dies, no matter how stupidly they may have lived. You just hope they'll realize they're living on borrowed time and straighten up before their lifestyle catches up to them.
posted by misha at 9:55 AM on June 20, 2011

As someone from West Chester, which was where the whole CKY madness started:

322 along that segment is a narrow two-lane highway, and has tons of deer in the area. It's a fairly straight stretch of road where I can see how someone would be TEMPTED to floor it, and it's also claimed its share of lives of people who did exactly that. Two girls from my high school got killed right along there years ago; the driver was sober, the passengers were drunk and horsing around, and she went off to the right and overcorrected right into the path of a Bonneville.

That road + a lead foot + ANY kind of alcohol impairment is a very nasty combination.

Of the CKY Crew, Dunn was always entertaining because he was the everyman of the group -- just a big ol' galoot who could be talked into just about anything, but who was painfully aware before the stunt as to just how bad of an idea it really was.

.
posted by delfin at 9:55 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Yeah, he was without doubt the least dickish of all the CKY / Viva La Bam kids. It's a fucking shame.
posted by dersins at 10:00 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

I was talking to a tow truck driver about what 110 mph does to a vehicle. He told me about a guy who killed himself in an SUV, got up to 110-120 mph and decided to hit a floodgate. The tow truck driver said that the SUV went from being sixteen feet in length to seven and that the front tires were touching the back tires. Teeth were still scattered along the dashboard. He could do nothing to tow, only lift the chunk of metal and deposit it on a truck designed for such occasions. Glass, he said, would not stop raining off of the thing. They later found a lip they had to pass back to someone in charge.

110 miles per hour has four times the kinetic energy of the fifty-five Sammy Hagar cannot drive.
posted by adipocere at 10:03 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Aw, he killed a GT3? Jackass.
posted by ryanrs at 10:04 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

I dunno, by jackass standards isn't dying at 34 in a drunken 110 mph car crash like living a long life and dying of natural cause?

Circle of Life, homies.
posted by dgaicun at 10:07 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

.
posted by Bookhouse at 10:08 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

.
posted by limeonaire at 10:14 AM on June 20, 2011

This makes me sad. Just two days ago I was watching one of the Jackass movies with a friend in a bar, and we were in deep discussion on the merits of the franchise....ahem. At one point she asked me who I thought was going to die first. I said that I didn't think any of them were going to die, because people like that never die. I'm sorry, Dunn. R.I.P.
posted by anoirmarie at 10:17 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

i don't really understand the sympathy for passengers of drunk driving accidents. passengers of other cars, absolutely. kids or people who don't know the driver is drunk - loads of sympathy. but if you're out drinking with your buddy and one of you gets behind the wheel and the other in the passenger seat - you're both drunk assholes and if you die on the way home, that's what i'd call an expected result. i've been that asshole before, letting my way too drunk friend drive me home. the fact we made it there is nothing short of a miracle.

i wish ryan dunn had used any of his wealth to call a cab.
posted by nadawi at 10:17 AM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

A drunk person is, well, drunk, and obviously doesn't have the functioning circuitry to decide against driving.

I've been drunk plenty of times. Never driven at the same time, though. Just one of my many superpowers, I guess.
posted by ryanrs at 10:25 AM on June 20, 2011 [19 favorites]

no other sources for this - but this claims it's a hoax. the link from this page sadly seems borked.
posted by nadawi at 10:26 AM on June 20, 2011

I am in disbelief that none of the Jackass/CKY kids have died before this. It was with shock that I realized Ryan Dunn was the first, and he made it all the way to 34. I remember Bam in the old Big Brother magazines when he was a teenager, convinced he would be dead by 20.
posted by msali at 10:27 AM on June 20, 2011

and now lots of places are saying the article claiming it is fake is a fake. ah, the internet. this is apparently the accident report.
posted by nadawi at 10:32 AM on June 20, 2011

I had a weird feeling we were going to have news of a sudden too-young celebrity death this morning, I don't know why. I'm super bummed to have been right.
posted by sweetkid at 10:43 AM on June 20, 2011

34 is way too young. Ten years later, and that still would have been way too young. Do any of you, so quick so say that this was just something that was in the stars, ever consider your own mortality? or the people who you sound like, those that would not give one shit were you to die?

Jackass was a joke. It turned into a joke that made them money. It became their shitty job that they needed to go to, just like we go to ours and resent it the whole way there. Watching people live out the horrid characters we create for them simply via subscription, and then dancing around when the end we've written is realized, is terrifically disgusting.

I know that a lot of people wind up reading Metafilter for the first time because there is intelligent commentary regarding some Important Thing that occurs. I hope this doesn't sour them.

.
posted by GooseOnTheLoose at 10:44 AM on June 20, 2011 [7 favorites]

Wow, I can get this thread on Reddit, with more factiness and less sanctimony. What happened to MeFi?
posted by MisterMo at 10:53 AM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

Soldiers, paramedics, cops, sanitation workers, porta-pottie pumpers, and the Jackass crew all do things that I would never have the mindset to do. Most of them have a good chance of dying from what they do. And I am damn grateful they are out there doing it. Of that lot, only the boys of Jackass provided me with many horse laughs and hours of entertainment while doing it. And I hope that, like any of those other jobs, the rest of the crew can carry on with the job that needs doing. Jackass was like Southpark to me at times. I almost hated that it made me laugh so hard. But it did. Sometimes against my will. For that and many other reasons, I salute them, and will mourn the loss of someone I never knew, beyond their work
posted by Redhush at 10:54 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Do any of you, so quick so say that this was just something that was in the stars, ever consider your own mortality?

yep - which is one of the many reasons i stopped getting in cars with drunk drivers. he didn't die helping little old ladies across the street. no one forced him to live his life off screen like he did on screen. he drank, he drove, he went 110mph, and he died. it is certainly sad for those that loved him. but pointing out that driving excessive speeds while drunk is dangerous isn't dancing on anyone's grave. being glad it was a single car crash instead of killing other people doesn't make us monsters.
posted by nadawi at 10:55 AM on June 20, 2011 [5 favorites]

Lots of people who murder themselves and their friends have people who love them. I feel bad for them too. Doesn't mean I'm going to go on mefi and say it's okay 'cause they used to be on a show I liked.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 11:01 AM on June 20, 2011

Oh, man. I've been a big fan of the franchise since I saw the first movie on a rental DVD. I'd have to disagree with a couple of the comments above that talk about the risky stunts being dark inherently -- their pranks on members of the public are widely transgressive and antagonistic, but not needlessly cruel (notice how much more cruel Bam was on his own show than what he got away with in most of the Jackass shows/movies).

Their stunts , while often gross, strike me far more as an attempt at being lighthearted and silly. If they were pointlessly risky, it was born more of a sense of being not entirely grasping the scale of the risk involved rather than dismissing the danger entirely.

Ryan Dunn was one of my favorites on the cast, partly because he struck me as one of the most genial guys in the group. A particular scene from the Jackass 3 era (I believe it was in the movie, but it could've been on one of the DVD extras) where Johnny Knoxville was driving golf balls in a racquetball court (wearing a bucket on his head), and he got nailed almost in the throat when a ball went through the small gap under the bucket, you can see something that usually doesn't make it onto the screen -- Ryan and Steve-O responded very quickly, and something about the tone of Ryan's voice stuck out to me as one of real genuine concern. It was just a couple moments, but there was a glimpse of real compassion and camaraderie that more often would end up on the cutting room floor.

So no, I'm not going to agree with people who say that the Jackass stunts are cruel or dark. It's modern-era Buster Keaton slapstick, where the actors ARE the stuntmen as well. Silliness and outrageousness prevails, and Dunn was one of the more accessible guys in the bunch.

So yeah, it's a shame what happened to Dunn today. He brought a lot of laughs to a lot of people. And he's going to continue bringing laughs from all of what's already been recorded. But those laughs are not going to be entirely unencumbered in the future.
posted by chimaera at 11:08 AM on June 20, 2011 [9 favorites]

The only people I feel bad for about this accident are the families. Dunn is a fucknut and so is his friend for getting in the car, driving blitzed, let alone 110 mph.

Sorry I can't feel pity for the incredibly stupid and selfish.

But I can feel very sad for his family.
posted by stormpooper at 11:16 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

A drunk person is, well, drunk, and obviously doesn't have the functioning circuitry to decide against driving. I strongly disagree. Before you put a drink down your gullet, you know not to drive if drinking. You not to go 110 whether drinking or not. I'm sorry but I don't follow the "wow man I was blitzed and didn't even know it." Bar tender--he's not a baby sitter.
posted by stormpooper at 11:17 AM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

Wow, I can get this thread on Reddit, with more factiness and less sanctimony. What happened to MeFi?

Wait... there was a time when MeFi wasn't excruciatingly sanctimonious? ... 1999-2000?
posted by dgaicun at 11:20 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Even though most of us don't realize it now, I think history will look kindly on the Jackass series. Hidden masterpieces. Not joking. Criterion collection worthy.
posted by naju at 11:23 AM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

People truly somewhere deep down make the decision to drive or not before they start drinking. There are those who would and will, and those who never would. Drunk people who maybe would drive while drunk can't stop themselves, but those of us who never would, don't need our keys taken away because we never would.
posted by haveanicesummer at 11:32 AM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

the tweet and picture from matt's post have both been deleted.

Well that will certainly be effective in making sure that the entire interweb sees both of them by this time tomorrow at the latest.
posted by localroger at 11:49 AM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Drunk people drive drunk not because they don't know they're drunk but because they don't care.

Presumably they don't care when they're sober, either, otherwise they wouldn't have driven to the bar in the first place. Or started drinking while there, knowing that they had driven there (if the plan wasn't originally to go to the bar and get drunk).
posted by antifuse at 11:50 AM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

1. You don't have to be drunk to speed, blow a guard rail, hit a tree, and blow up your car. Plenty of sober people do this.

2. Drunk people get in cars *willingly* with other drunk people all the time. I'm pretty sure Ryan didn't force anybody to go with him.

3. Who's to say a deer didn't jump out in front of him and cause this crash? Falling asleep at the wheel also happens. There are any number of possible circumstances that might have helped cause this crash *even if alcohol was (I believe it was)* involved.

5. NEVERTHELESS, no matter how stupid, deserved, you-should-have-known-better-d a situation is, this was a human being who left behind people who loved him, and surely did not expect to die.
posted by FunkyStar at 12:02 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

(I should note that my comment isn't directed at this situation in particular, of which we know very little details, just the sort-of derail conversation about whether or not drunk drivers know what they're doing - I'm sad that we've lost one of the Jackass guys already, and yet also surprised that this is the first, and that it wasn't during the filming of a Jackass stunt)
posted by antifuse at 12:05 PM on June 20, 2011

Who's to say a deer didn't jump out in front of him and cause this crash? Falling asleep at the wheel also happens. There are any number of possible circumstances that might have helped cause this crash *even if alcohol was (I believe it was)* involved.

Oh, come the freak on. Alternate histories are not necessary here: he drove a very powerful sports car into a tree, going 110 mph at 3:30 AM, after a night of booze consumption. Deer, narcolepsy and/or alien intervention do not need to be imagined as a cause.

Yes, he was too young. Yes, he was a human being who has people who loved him (parents, siblings, lover, friends). And yes, no-one should die in such a pointless, stupid way.

But this doesn't mean that appallingly stupid choices weren't the operative cause of his death.
posted by jrochest at 12:14 PM on June 20, 2011 [6 favorites]

I'm compelled to comment.
posted by _aa_ at 12:23 PM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Oh, dear. Ebert vs. Jackass. What will Metafilter do?
posted by pracowity at 12:30 PM on June 20, 2011

I'm with Jackass all the way. (By which I mean the stunt troupe. Not Ebert. Glad he finally laid off the fatty foods though.)
posted by entropicamericana at 12:35 PM on June 20, 2011

I’m surprised to learn that anyone on Mefi has watched more than ten minutes of Jackass. I checked it out on MTV and I struck me as the worst that that bottom feeding channel had to offer.

But, hey, I’m older than dirt, so pay no mind to me. In the last 10 or 15 years young people have, with stuff like BMX riding, skateboarding, Parkour and freeclimbing, been more and more actively seeking out risk... and the more obvious the risk to bone and blood the better.

Back in the day we didn’t have to go out looking for it. We drove cars with big V8 engines with crappy brakes and tires and no seat belts or airbags, and drunk driving laws were pretty lax. No one had ever heard of a smoke alarm or a ground fault preventer circuit, and kids were free to ride their bikes anywhere as long as they got home in time for dinner. My elementary school showed a yearly cautionary film on the dangers of playing with blasting caps, and for a couple of weeks after that we would all hunt for blasting caps to play with.

Maybe people need risk. Risk voyeurism is another story altogether.
posted by Huplescat at 12:36 PM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

GooseOnTheLoose: "Do any of you, so quick so say that this was just something that was in the stars, ever consider your own mortality?"

Yes, if not daily then at least a couple of times a week. Last time this evening after taking a dump. I just turned 33.

Being under 60 and owning a Porsche is in itself enough to lower your life expectancy significantly.
posted by brokkr at 12:43 PM on June 20, 2011

Deer, narcolepsy and/or alien intervention do not need to be imagined as a cause.

Not even booze, actually. Let's assume he had one and he was completely sober.

He's going down a dark road at 110mph at a time when your body is normally in the deepest phase of the sleep cycle. Damn few people can handle a car at 110mph properly. Add in limited lighting and simple exhaustion, and it's clear he was driving much faster than his reaction time could handle. Alcohol would have only made it worse.

People in this state die at full power. By the time they realize that something might be wrong, it's too late -- there is nothing they can do to save themselves. Indeed, if you're going fast enough and your reaction time is slow enough, you wouldn't know you were going to crash until the impact, and you would die before you realized you had hit something.

Heck, almost everyone reading this, myself included, would have stood a good chance of dying the same way if we tried the same trick. You can't make the bend if you can't see it *and* have time to react to it.

I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't even skid marks.
posted by eriko at 12:52 PM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

The extreme sports stuff was all incidental to me. At its best, Jackass contains some of the best moments of pure, unrestrained glee ever committed to film. Not only is it absolutely hilarious, self-aware in its stupidity, and infectiously fun (the people involved are laughing as hard as the people watching! When does that happen in any other comedy?), but it's also a pretty nuanced examination of the psychology of play and camaraderie (for boys/men/man-children). And a gender and sexuality goldmine (note the constant homosexual undercurrent.) And on the show's take on youth and mortality, Jess put it best: "young men inflicting pain on each other and laughing about it, like indolent shirtless gods testing their immortality." Jackass will go down as one of the great classics of our time!
posted by naju at 12:58 PM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

.
posted by Renoroc at 12:59 PM on June 20, 2011

The Daily Mail article posts a police report that identifies Dunn as the driver. And from this photo in the same article, the second set of burnt rubber looks like he almost took another car with him.

Talented entertainer and stuntman. Young to die. But likely very lucky he didn't kill anyone else except the passenger.
posted by oneironaut at 1:03 PM on June 20, 2011

I just can't muster up much emotion over someone doing something absurdly stupid—110mph on a dark narrow road—and ending up suffering the obvious natural consequence.

I'm glad they killed only themselves. It's when other, innocent people are harmed that I get choked.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:04 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Huplescat, I'm older than dirt as well, and I love Jackass. I agree with you on one point, though, which is that when I watch Jackass and the CKY side of the crew in particular, I think "That could've been me."

Not literally myself, as I have a much lower threshold for pain than they do, but that every group of kids that had access to a video camera recorded themselves horsing around and doing stupid pranks and stunts. That's how CKY started -- a bunch of friends doing stupid shit on camera. Who didn't have friends in high school who'd do just about anything on a dare? These guys happened to be in the right place at the right time, got their videos distributed, and caught the eye of the right production team.

Someone -- I forget who -- summed up Jackass in all its masochistic glory by saying "I'm watching a scene and thinking 'This may be the worst idea in the history of the world.' And then I watch the next scene and think 'I was wrong. THIS is the worst idea in the history of the world.'" That's the joy of it -- to see human beings engaged in the most juvenile, idiotic stunts and pranks and skits in the name of laughter and the viewer's entertainment, but sometimes just because they CAN.

Dunn himself had what might be the best brief one-line-mission-statement in the second movie. He and Bam are presenting the evidence of Bam's branding-iron-to-the-ass-cheek stunt to Bam's mother April, and she's furious. She looks at Dunn and asks "WHY would you do this?" Without blinking an eye or cracking a smile, he says "Because it was funny."

Sometimes that's enough.

. , you dumb drunken sonofabitch.
posted by delfin at 1:05 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Coincidentally, from a Louis CK interview published today:

"The Jackass movies are honestly some of the best movies I've ever seen. I laugh so hard at them. Those guys are geniuses. If they had grown up with a different group of people, they could've been performance artists at Bard College, and people would be writing papers about them. There's a real beauty in it, and there's a release to watching those movies. But it's because they're doing things to each other as friends. If they were going around and hitting old ladies in the head, it would be horrible""
posted by Adam_S at 1:11 PM on June 20, 2011 [7 favorites]

Best. Youtube. Comment. Ever:

He died like he lived ... with car parts in his anus.

I think the second set of skid marks is from a car driving behind Dunn's Porsche in the same direction, braking when seeing the crash. (Otherwise it would have been someone driving on the wrong side of the road.)
posted by brokkr at 1:11 PM on June 20, 2011

from a car driving behind Dunn's Porsche in the same direction, braking when seeing the crash

Dunno about that. I'd say there's a good chance Mr. Jackass was racing some friends in another vehicle.
posted by ryanrs at 1:24 PM on June 20, 2011

Daaamn some of you are COLD.
posted by Specklet at 1:26 PM on June 20, 2011 [8 favorites]

Dunno about that. I'd say there's a good chance Mr. Jackass was racing some friends in another vehicle.

based on what?
posted by to sir with millipedes at 1:27 PM on June 20, 2011

Based on both drivers panic-braking nearly simultaneously after their cars clipped each other. Dunn's car went off the road, the other car did not. The police need to track down all of Dunn's friends who own fast cars. They are looking for minor damage on the right side.
posted by ryanrs at 1:31 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Gee, who's a good friend of Dunn's who owns a couple of Lamborghinis?

COINCIDENCE... OR CONSPIRACY?
posted by delfin at 1:34 PM on June 20, 2011

I'm going with a narcaleptic deer conspiracy.
posted by stormpooper at 1:42 PM on June 20, 2011

Specklet: "Daaamn some of you are COLD."

Guy I never heard of before dies in fiery drunk driving speeding Porsche crash. Pardon me for being light on the empathy.
posted by brokkr at 1:47 PM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

brokkr -- if you never heard of the guy, then what prompted you to comment upon his death?
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 1:58 PM on June 20, 2011 [13 favorites]

I am curious: what is Barnaby's of America's liability here? Seriously.

'preliminary investigation revealed that speed may have been a contributing factor to the accident.'

Well, duh.

I also don't see where the speed of the car was reported. Where is everyone getting 110 from?

Can't they determine speed from the skid marks? Or the distance from the road?

Based on both drivers panic-braking nearly simultaneously after their cars clipped each other.

Yeah, you can't see where both skidmarks start, but if they start near the same place, that seems like strong evidence of racing and clipping to me. IANAE.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:02 PM on June 20, 2011

brokkr -- if you never heard of the guy, then what prompted you to comment upon his death?

Because it was posted here (as if to say "WTF is this celeb news posted here?").

I may have recognized the guy (probably not - he looks much bigger in recent pics than I remember), but I wouldn't have known him by name.
posted by mrgrimm at 2:03 PM on June 20, 2011

Indeed.

Note I said "I wouldn't be surprised", not "there won't be." However, given how long those are, he wasn't doing 110mph went it all went wrong, given that he basically shattered that GT3 when he hit the tree. He was going faster. He was also at the very least fishtailing -- something that is *completely* unsurprising if he hit the brakes hard on a 911 for some reason.

Yes, the GT3 handles *vastly* better than the early 911s, but it is still a rear-engined, RWD high performance car. Too much braking, esp. if you've turned things like stability control off, and the rear end is going to try to come around and find out what the hell you're doing.
posted by eriko at 2:09 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Notice how the other car was quite sideways, but not in a spin. Four straight skid marks, all neatly between the lines. Modern stability control systems are pretty cool.
posted by ryanrs at 2:14 PM on June 20, 2011

sure is armchair CSI up in here
posted by danny the boy at 3:00 PM on June 20, 2011 [7 favorites]

Don't be silly, there's nothing to suggest an armchair was involved.
posted by cortex at 3:04 PM on June 20, 2011 [6 favorites]

There's nothing to suggest an armchair wasn't.
posted by mazola at 3:08 PM on June 20, 2011

GOOGLE LOOSE ARMREST SHEEPLE
posted by entropicamericana at 3:10 PM on June 20, 2011

Metafilter: CSI meets Judge Judy.
posted by Pants McCracky at 3:17 PM on June 20, 2011 [5 favorites]

The only people I feel bad for about this accident are the families. Dunn is a fucknut and so is his friend for getting in the car, driving blitzed, let alone 110 mph.

Sorry I can't feel pity for the incredibly stupid and selfish.

I'm so glad I can now brag that I've managed to find a eulogy that includes the word "fucknut."
posted by herbplarfegan at 3:23 PM on June 20, 2011

He was my favorite member of the group. What a shame.
posted by codacorolla at 3:31 PM on June 20, 2011

.
posted by howlingmonkey at 3:32 PM on June 20, 2011

Jackass: the rear end is going to try to come around and find out what the hell you're doing.
posted by herbplarfegan at 3:39 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Is it Darwin Awards season already?
posted by signal at 3:53 PM on June 20, 2011

he drank, he drove, he went 110mph, and he died.

Also toss in i also read that he plowed through 40 yards (!) of trees before he hit the one that caused the explosion.

I've lost a lot of classmates to drunk driving/speeding, either from doing it or from others doing it. You know what? If that's what he was doing, fuck him. Good riddance, and glad he only took out those in his car. Would people be responding so nicely if he took out others? I only feel sorry for his family, his friends (that were with him) should have done something to stop this, but they probably provoked it. Those that weren't, probably couldn't, so they are probably hurting too. This showed what he was really like, not any impression we got out of any show he was on.

It does remind me of that joke about a mosquito on a windshield though, "What was the last thing that went through his mind? His ass."
posted by usagizero at 3:57 PM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

EmpressCallipygos: "brokkr -- if you never heard of the guy, then what prompted you to comment upon his death?"

The power of the comment field at the bottom of the page compels me.

Devoting time and attention to a filthy rich entertainer who chose to commit alcohol-fueled vehicular murder/suicide without providing context, backstory or perspective is the job of the tabloid press, not an interesting weblog. This is more MLP, less "something that meets the following criteria: most people haven't seen it before, there is something interesting about the content on the page, and it might warrant discussion from others."

Over 150,000 people die each day; if you devote a MeFi thread per week to an obituary (which is in my opinion still way too many) you can honour the 50 most important people passing away each year. This is a company of heroes I am not ready to admit the late Mr. Dunn to.

signal: "Is it Darwin Awards season already?"

The season never ends.
posted by brokkr at 4:07 PM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

.
posted by Lina Lamont at 4:18 PM on June 20, 2011

If I drove, not just drunk but also over the speed limit, and crashed and killed not only myself but somebody else, I would want the world saying the nastiest things possible about me.
posted by tumid dahlia at 4:23 PM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

Gee, who's a good friend of Dunn's who owns a couple of Lamborghinis?

COINCIDENCE... OR CONSPIRACY?

Bam is in Las Vegas apparently so it couldn't have been him.
posted by burnmp3s at 4:36 PM on June 20, 2011

.
posted by gkhan at 4:38 PM on June 20, 2011

In death as in life, Dunn is an influence on my kids...or a least a good segue into a discussion about drugs and alcohol.

.
posted by snsranch at 4:55 PM on June 20, 2011

item: "Just because everyone around here is used to you being a complete dick ..."

I smell a new TV show.
posted by bwg at 5:51 PM on June 20, 2011

Meta.
posted by smoke at 5:53 PM on June 20, 2011

I love you Metafilter but sometimes you need show some restraint and shut your sanctimonious pie-hole. Between this and the rape derail in a fucking Muppets thread I'm shaking my head at you more and more.

That said- sad Ryan was the first to go. He always struck me as the member of the Jackass team you could hang out with and not be in constant fear for the safety of your balls.

.
posted by AzzaMcKazza at 6:27 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

I love Jackass. I appreciate this man's work and am sorry to hear what happened to him. Unfortunately, Dunn's death is somehow more surprising than the outcome of this thread.
posted by hermitosis at 6:41 PM on June 20, 2011

Even though most of us don't realize it now, I think history will look kindly on the Jackass series. Hidden masterpieces. Not joking. Criterion collection worthy.
posted by naju at 11:23 AM on June 20 [4 favorites −]

I agree. There's an interesting, almost understated aesthetic to the Jackass shows. What I think best represents the aesthetic is some of the "filler" pieces that received no fanfare but take up a few seconds between featured stunts. (I'm thinking, for example, of a little bit where they set up ramps in a neighborhood and ride bikes into big bushes. Nothing fancy, nothing too dangerous, just silly.) There's a certain poetry to the way it is all put together, the childishness, the disregard of scrapes and bruises, the doing these stunts amid people going on with their daily lives, the frolicsomeness for the sake of frolicking. And also the fact that this filler may have taken quite a bit of time to plan, film and edit but gets only seconds of airtime, reflecting a care and deliberateness, a concern with texture and pacing and variety, that is anything but childish.
posted by jayder at 6:59 PM on June 20, 2011 [4 favorites]

Notice how the other car was quite sideways, but not in a spin. Four straight skid marks, all neatly between the lines. Modern stability control systems are pretty cool.

Now way, no how, did a car losing control leave perfectly straight skid marks like that. If the car was going in a straight line, ABS would have prevented rubber being laid. If the car wasn't going in a straight line, the marks would not have been straight. You're claiming that a car slid sideways perfectly straight while at an angle of roughly 30 degrees. That is so far from improbably to heavily leaning on impossible.

It'd be marginally possible for someone very skilled and very, very fast reacting to hold a car at that angle for that long at that speed, but you can't do it with all four wheels locked as you have no means of countering the rotation with the wheels locked.

That is a (possibly unrelated) tractor trailer, y'all.

Yeah, you can't see where both skidmarks start, but if they start near the same place, that seems like strong evidence of racing and clipping to me. IANAE.

Not if you know anything about vehicle behaviour, which may be why the cops are saying 'single vehicle accident'. I wonder if it was the truck driver that stopped to see what was going on and call the cops when he saw the fire (more likely than the other scenario).
posted by Brockles at 6:59 PM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Got to admit though--terrible way to die. Crash + burning? Forget a decent funeral. Closed if that. People don't even get the pleasure of saying goodbye "face to face". Ugh. What a waste.
posted by stormpooper at 7:05 PM on June 20, 2011

.
posted by tribalspice at 7:07 PM on June 20, 2011

Between this and the rape derail in a fucking Muppets thread

Uh whaaa?
posted by Kloryne at 7:15 PM on June 20, 2011

.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 7:22 PM on June 20, 2011

It sucks when people die, but if this is where the bar is set for Metafilter obituary threads, there will probably need to be a satellite site for them.

I'm not personally a Jackass fan, but many of my friends are. This guy was an entertainer and a stuntman. Show some respect.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 7:26 PM on June 20, 2011

You're claiming that a car slid sideways perfectly straight while at an angle of roughly 30 degrees [..] That is a (possibly unrelated) tractor trailer

I thought the spacing looks wrong for a semi. I suppose it's possible, though.

As for holding a line in a slide, I think it's definitely possible. I have provoked a modern sports car's stability control system at speed. It was one of the spookiest driving experiences I've ever had. It felt like the Hand of God took hold of the car and guided it through the curve.

I was doing 60-70 into a 180° 25 mph hairpin, over broken pavement. I recall braking hard on entry, then clenching my anus. I don't know exactly what the car did, but it was very un-car-like. It sort of drove itself and held the line.

So I could believe the other car slid to a stop under control of the stability program. However, there are two things that argue against that theory:

1. Shouldn't the stability program have straightened out the car while it was sliding?
2. The cops didn't measure the second set of skid marks (note the orange paint on the Porsche's skids).

On preview: rape derail.
posted by ryanrs at 7:35 PM on June 20, 2011

When you live for the lulz, death by misadventure is that omnipresent yawning fate that you fly over with wings made of bravado and blind stupid luck.
Pour out one for the planker who fell to his death. For the girl who got run over by the ghost whip and for Ryan who died doing what he loved. Being a damned fool.
posted by vicx at 7:40 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

I'm not personally a Jackass fan, but many of my friends are. This guy was an entertainer and a stuntman. Show some respect.

I'm not personally a football fan, but many of my friends are. This guy was a quarterback and an actor. And killed some people. Show some respect.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 7:51 PM on June 20, 2011

You sure did get your hate on today, John Kenneth Fisher. Ryan Dunn was no OJ Simpson, but thanks for the hyperbole.
posted by chimaera at 7:58 PM on June 20, 2011 [3 favorites]

They both killed some people.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:09 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Killed by a knife or a 110 mph car, the victim is just. as. dead. And the killer is just as guilty.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:10 PM on June 20, 2011

And the killer is just as guilty.

Well, no. That's why we distinguish between manslaughter and murder. Someone who commits manslaughter is seen as less culpable than a murderer because they lack the intent to kill. I don't think anyone here has suggested that Ryan Dunn intended to kill his passenger.
posted by ryanrs at 8:31 PM on June 20, 2011 [2 favorites]

Killed by a knife or a 110 mph car, the victim is just. as. dead. And the killer is just as guilty.

There's a difference between premeditated murder and a car accident.
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 8:31 PM on June 20, 2011

I bet they'll find measurable skid marks in his pants. If they can find his pants.

(Or maybe the fresh skid marks would act as a fire retardant. Was he found wearing only skid marks? Stay tuned, America!)
posted by pracowity at 9:13 PM on June 20, 2011

Okay, how about if I amend 'guilty' to 'responsible'. He's just as responsible.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:22 PM on June 20, 2011

If he was driving drunk I'm glad he's dead, and grateful he didn't hit another car.
posted by bardic at 9:23 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

To be responsible for a death is not the same as to be culpable. Judging from the surplus punctuation, I assumed you were drawing some kind of moral equivalence. Is that not the case?
posted by ryanrs at 9:30 PM on June 20, 2011

Basically, I'm agreeing that maybe he isn't 'just as guilty'... not exactly at least. But I do say he's definitely just as responsible. And personally I feel he's just as culpable.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 9:31 PM on June 20, 2011 [1 favorite]

Even though most of us don't realize it now, I think history will look kindly on the Jackass series. Hidden masterpieces. Not joking. Criterion collection worthy.
posted by naju at 11:23 AM on June 20 [4 favorites −]

I laughed uncontrollably all the way through the first Jackass movie, but this sequence at the end gave me a weird chill -- sitting in a theater just a couple of months before the invasion of Iraq, with the Bush administration whipping up the war frenzy, this scene felt like a spiritual portrait of our leaders and an eerily prescient image of the black hole into which America was rapidly imploding.
posted by newmoistness at 9:37 PM on June 20, 2011

.
posted by pwally at 9:53 PM on June 20, 2011

And personally I feel he's just as culpable.

As criminally blameworthy as someone who plots and plans and intentionally kills? Ridiculous. Even if he was drunk.
posted by ryanrs at 10:08 PM on June 20, 2011

I don't think a star of Jackass dying in a drunk driving accident rises to the level of tragic.

What an unbelievably shitty thing to say. Jesus Christ. Fuck his family cuz he was on a show you didn't like and made a fatal mistake at the end of his life, huh?
posted by EatTheWeek at 11:59 PM on June 20, 2011

There is no tragedy in idiocy. IMO, the guy was a fucking idiot.

So were the passengers for getting into a high powered sports car with a driver that was obviously fucking drunk.

I only feel bad for his Mum. For raising an idiot.
posted by Duke999R at 12:11 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

There is no tragedy in idiocy. IMO, the guy was a fucking idiot.

You're so much better than us, Duke. Teach us your ways! Always bet on Duke!
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:23 AM on June 21, 2011

Bam Margera responds to Roger Ebert's similar sentiment
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 12:24 AM on June 21, 2011

Guy's a murderer.

I feel sad that he's dead, but if you drink and drive and you kill someone, it's murder. It's not manslaughter. You took your car to a bar, you impaired your ability to drive safely, you got into that car and you drove it. There's a sustained series of decisions that ended up with you taking someone elses life. It's murder.

And if you're railing against the people in these threads that are bluntly and angrily stating this, then you should maybe take into consideration that drink driving kills and maims huge numbers of innocent people, and maybe you're railing against those who have been affected by drunk driving.
posted by seanyboy at 12:30 AM on June 21, 2011 [9 favorites]

There is no tragedy in idiocy. IMO, the guy was a fucking idiot.

God, whatever the fuck. A lot of commenters here are clearly more comfortable sitting in judgment of someone who has died than I ever will be. I'm just gonna go head and assume none of y'all have never done nothing stupid or irresponsible ever in your lives and will continue to never do anything stupid or irresponsible ever, ever, ever. Go head and keep gleefully declaring which people got what they deserved and how you're supercool for saying so.

I'm walking right back out of this thread, as it's rapidly turning out to a prime example of Metafilter at it's worst.
posted by EatTheWeek at 12:38 AM on June 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

Bam Margera may have been crying hysterically for the last day, but around 15,000 people die each year in the States as a consequence of drinking and driving. Ryan Dunn is one of approximately 50 people who were killed today. How about some tears and some dots for them. And how about we continue to push drinking and driving to be morally repugnant and socially unacceptable.

This wasn't an accident. It was a double-murder and it was completely preventable.
posted by seanyboy at 12:39 AM on June 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

And if you're railing against the people in these threads that are bluntly and angrily stating this, then you should maybe take into consideration that drink driving kills and maims huge numbers of innocent people, and maybe you're railing against those who have been affected by drunk driving.

Ugh, I hate this argument. It's like saying, "You're applying your beliefs objectively. Maybe you should be more biased."
posted by mreleganza at 12:40 AM on June 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

And if you're railing against the people in these threads that are bluntly and angrily stating this, then you should maybe take into consideration that drink driving kills and maims huge numbers of innocent people, and maybe you're railing against those who have been affected by drunk driving.

What this thread doesn't need is people who have lost loved ones in drunk driving accidents wishing that people like Ryan Dunn would have died sooner as a result of their alcoholism. That's a fucked up thing to say. Go see a fucking therapist.

What this world doesn't need is a film critic with presumably 32 years of sobriety using his loudspeaker to call a fellow dead drinker a jackass, before he's even had a funeral. You know what, Roger? You're a fuck for even opening your mouth on this one. I bet you got behind a wheel drunk at least once, and I can even more comfortably assume a healthy majority of your sober buddies have in the past. So are they jackasses, too? Where's your worldly condemnation for their actions. Or are you just more comfortable picking on a celebrity stranger.
posted by phaedon at 12:43 AM on June 21, 2011 [4 favorites]

You're so much better than us, Duke. Teach us your ways! Always bet on Duke!

rofl. You'd be on a losing bet there my friend.
posted by Duke999R at 12:51 AM on June 21, 2011

If Ryan Dunn has done this once, he's done it before. He's probably put innumerable other lives at risk.

Yeah, it's a tragedy. Yeah, it's bad for his friends to seem him dragged by Ebert through the mud. But unfortunately, it appears that one of the only ways to win the public argument about drink driving is to wait for moments like this and to publically humiliate a dead celebrity.

Go see a fucking therapist
I suggest that the reason why people may feel strongly about this is because they've been affected, and you confusingly imply that I wish he'd died sooner. Even though I said "I feel sad that he's dead". Fuck you phaedon.

And where did this "Alcoholism" thing come from. "Oooh, he was sick, it wasn't his fault." That is bogus. He's a murderer. He killed himself and one other. There's no reason to be celebrating this man's life or excusing this terrible, terrible act.
posted by seanyboy at 1:12 AM on June 21, 2011 [7 favorites]

murder...murderer

You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:21 AM on June 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Over 150,000 people die each day; if you devote a MeFi thread per week to an obituary (which is in my opinion still way too many) you can honour the 50 most important people passing away each year.

You don't get to decide who people think are important enough to post about.
posted by mippy at 3:34 AM on June 21, 2011

You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
Aren't you the clever one. Hackneyed phrase is hackneyed.

I know exactly what they mean.
posted by seanyboy at 3:54 AM on June 21, 2011

In New York, a person is guilty of manslaughter when he or she is "aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk" that results in someone's death. Manslaughter is punishable by up to 15 years in prison.

Murder, on the other hand, refers to someone who, with "depraved indifference to human life," engages in conduct that creates a grave risk of death that ultimately kills someone.
(from here)

So not as cut and dried as your little put-down would suggest.
posted by seanyboy at 4:18 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

mippy: "You don't get to decide who people think are important enough to post about."

No, and that's not what I said either. But conversely, you don't get to decide that a dead drunk driver/killer deserves my respect.
posted by brokkr at 4:24 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I bet you got behind a wheel drunk at least once, and I can even more comfortably assume a healthy majority of your sober buddies have in the past. So are they jackasses, too? Where's your worldly condemnation for their actions. Or are you just more comfortable picking on a celebrity stranger.

Not directed at me, but no, many of us have never and would never get behind the wheel drunk, even once. And have been very clear about our views to our friends if they do it too. You're making assumptions without basis here.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 4:29 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Wow, looks like metafilter's dickbag brigade is out in full strength and all hopped up on haterade.

. for Ryan.

Rectum, damn near...oh, wait.
posted by schyler523 at 5:07 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Just a question. I know he and the other burned. How can they do an autopsy (toxicology I'm assuming) on him to find say alcohol. Wouldn't it burn off or have nothing left to autopsy?
posted by stormpooper at 6:39 AM on June 21, 2011

Something something fighting on the internet something something...
posted by antifuse at 7:14 AM on June 21, 2011

Could someone explain how deciding to drive drunk is different than deciding to fire a gun downtown in a random direction?
posted by five fresh fish at 8:02 AM on June 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

As for holding a line in a slide, I think it's definitely possible. I have provoked a modern sports car's stability control system at speed. It was one of the spookiest driving experiences I've ever had. It felt like the Hand of God took hold of the car and guided it through the curve.

I was doing 60-70 into a 180° 25 mph hairpin, over broken pavement. I recall braking hard on entry, then clenching my anus. I don't know exactly what the car did, but it was very un-car-like. It sort of drove itself and held the line.

So I could believe the other car slid to a stop under control of the stability program. However, there are two things that argue against that theory:
Shouldn't the stability program have straightened out the car while it was sliding?
The cops didn't measure the second set of skid marks (note the orange paint on the Porsche's skids).

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of vehicle stability systems based on one anecdotal episode that you admit you are clueless about at the time. Very odd to make such assertions of it's effectiveness under these circumstances, is it not?

So I could believe the other car slid to a stop under control of the stability program

It is not possible. No matter how much you think it is 'definitely possible'. The stability programmes are not magic they are just software and programming that applies differential braking or power reductions to try and induce a rotation in the car that is deemed by the software to be returning the car to travelling in a straight line or on a path consistent with steering input. When all four wheels are locked and sliding, there IS no differential braking available that will make any difference. All pwer is reduced and the wheels are fully locked already (and clearly aren't being released either). In addition, no modern car will produce 4 straight skid marks like that anyway, as ABS precludes it as a possibility so the evidence not only points to no stability system functioning on the vehicle in question, but also no ABS either. Extremely unlikely in any modern car.

Shouldn't the stability program have straightened out the car while it was sliding?

Again, no. If it had, there would have been nowhere near as many black lines. For any car that by definition must have similar front and rear track width, you'd need a car to slide at round 30deg to the road with constant loading on all 4 tyres to make those marks, all with wheels fully locked or locked to the same degree and absolutely no residual moment (yaw) of the car during that time or the car would spin.

Besides which, if the cars had touched, as you suggest, there would most certainly have been a sideways input from Dunn's car that would have produced such a yaw rate. Your theory holds no water at all. If there was a second car (possible) those skid marks are no evidence at all of it's existence or its involvement in the accident. They are irrelevant.
posted by Brockles at 8:08 AM on June 21, 2011

oneironaut writes "The Daily Mail article posts a police report that identifies Dunn as the driver. And from this photo in the same article, the second set of burnt rubber looks like he almost took another car with him. "

brokkr writes "I think the second set of skid marks is from a car driving behind Dunn's Porsche in the same direction, braking when seeing the crash. (Otherwise it would have been someone driving on the wrong side of the road.)"

That second or second and third set of skid marks aren't necessarily contemporaneous with the accident being discussed. They could be weeks old.

Brockles writes "All pwer is reduced and the wheels are fully locked already (and clearly aren't being released either). In addition, no modern car will produce 4 straight skid marks like that anyway, as ABS precludes it as a possibility so the evidence not only points to no stability system functioning on the vehicle in question, but also no ABS either. Extremely unlikely in any modern car."

This isn't snarky I'm interested. How is the computer going to tell if all four wheels are locked and skidding? There is no differential speed input from any wheel for the computer to work with.
posted by Mitheral at 8:32 AM on June 21, 2011

I blame Obama
posted by saucygit at 8:34 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Mitheral: How is the computer going to tell if all four wheels are locked and skidding?

Anti-Lock Brakes.
posted by Duke999R at 8:46 AM on June 21, 2011

ow is the computer going to tell if all four wheels are locked and skidding? There is no differential speed input from any wheel for the computer to work with.

If the wheels are stationary (ie locked) the lack of speed input is the factor it works with. Wheels that are sliding are rarely locked - they usually rotate anywhere between slightly slower than the road surface to stationary or thereabouts (sometimes backwards). Either way, no speed input means the system can effectively treat it as a locked wheel and release brake pressure anyway - if it can rotate, it will and the system gets back into working properly. If it wasn't locked and won't rotate for some other reason, then it won't matter anyway.
posted by Brockles at 8:58 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, even if you are an asshole.
posted by empatterson at 9:03 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Could someone explain how deciding to drive drunk is different than deciding to fire a gun
downtown in a random direction?

You mean like showing off your awesome gun to your friend "hold my beer and watch this" firing it randomly downtown idiocy, that kills someone?

Not sure about the US but here in ole Germany that would very likely be ruled negligent killing/manslaughter (like a deadly drunk driving accident), so no difference.
posted by ZeroAmbition at 9:07 AM on June 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

I had a bit an epiphany last night while I slept that has prompted me to change sides on this one. God came to me in a dream. He bellowed, "YOU SHOULD JUUUUUDGE MOORRRRRRE...."
posted by mreleganza at 9:37 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

mathowie writes "This post misses one key element: his last tweet linked to his tumblr blog showing him getting super drunk with friends. The photo was taken 2hrs before he died. Drunk driving kills."

Interestingly both of those links are now dead. I wonder if that is the companies acting proactively or if lawyers have gotten involved.

Brockles writes "Wheels that are sliding are rarely locked - they usually rotate anywhere between slightly slower than the road surface to stationary or thereabouts (sometimes backwards)."

Ah. Having flat spotted a set of tires on a couple occasions I'd always thought that a locked wheel wasn't turning.
posted by Mitheral at 9:41 AM on June 21, 2011

Having flat spotted a set of tires on a couple occasions I'd always thought that a locked wheel wasn't turning.

A locked wheel isn't turning. A sliding wheel, however, is not necessarily locked.
posted by Brockles at 9:46 AM on June 21, 2011

Gold stars stickers for everyone who didn't drive drunk today and, hey, those of you who did, here's a silver sticker because we don't want you to feel you're judged a failure!

Screw this mollycoddling. Those who recklessly endanger others are not to be pitied or forgiven. Kill yourself with stupidity all you want, but fuck you to eternal damnation when you kill someone else.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:49 AM on June 21, 2011 [5 favorites]

Regardless if he was drunk or not, the dude was driving 110 mph down a two lane road. His death wasn't tragic, it was stupid. Tragic is getting hit by the guy going 110 mph.
posted by jasondigitized at 9:52 AM on June 21, 2011 [7 favorites]

only on metafilter can you have people sanctimoniously complaining about sanctimony.
posted by nadawi at 9:53 AM on June 21, 2011

Those who recklessly endanger others are not to be pitied or forgiven.

five fresh fish, I understand that you and many other feel that way, but this seems to imply that you look down upon (or worse?) those for which it's quite possible to pity or even forgive reckless endangerers. And that's what I don't understand.

And I'm even with jasondigitized and others who say this was pure idiocy (and also tragedy).
posted by ZeroAmbition at 10:14 AM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Brockles, do modern antilock brakes still make dotted skids? My old car (1993) did, but I'm pretty sure my new car (2001) does not.
posted by ryanrs at 10:21 AM on June 21, 2011

"Could someone explain how deciding to drive drunk is different than deciding to fire a gun downtown in a random direction?"

Well, it's less of a binary decision for one thing. Pulling the trigger is pretty much a yes/no, normal/sociopath kind of thing. Deciding if you are too drunk to drive is a more complicated decision, the wrong choice being made by definition with impaired judgement.

To put it another way: what is the difference between sleep-deprived driving and firing the gun? Ever experience a hypnic jerk while driving? Did you immediately pull over? Is everybody who has driven a car with less than adequate sleep a worthless human being?

Ryan brought smiles and moments of laughter to many people. That counts in my book, as does the suffering propagated by his manner of passing. If you want to wish for something and not just have a moment of hate, wish that the realizations he probably had in his final moments came to him much earlier and helped him make better decisions. Wish that our society wasn't set up to promote this sort of behavior.

An accepted definition for tragic is 1. Causing or characterized by extreme distress or sorrow.
posted by Manjusri at 11:15 AM on June 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

ryanrs: Not that I am aware of, no. I think that was the result of low feedback (ie not so smart) early ABS that merely pulsed the brake pressure (one circuit at a time - ie fronts or rears) when it felt locking rather than the more involved method they use now. Multi channel ABS has better control of all 4 wheels.

I remember an early (I think it was Audi, hence Bosch) system that made it really hard to stop on wet snow because it wouldn't let the wheels lock and shovel enough in front of the wheels to fully stop the car. You'd brake normally without locking, but only down to about 3mph and then just drive along with the thing juddering away refusing to let the wheels lock.
posted by Brockles at 11:31 AM on June 21, 2011

The passenger has been identified as 30-year old Zachary Hartwell. US Magazine says he was a recently married Iraq war vet, with production and stunt credits on projects for both Jackass and Bam Margera.

TMZ says the toxicology reports will be released in 4-6 weeks.

.
posted by juliplease at 11:36 AM on June 21, 2011

Also, he is apparently the person in the far right of the photo that Ryan Dunn tweeted hours before the crash.
posted by juliplease at 11:37 AM on June 21, 2011

Could someone explain how deciding to drive drunk is different than deciding to fire a gun
downtown in a random direction?


Biggest difference I can think of is you rarely hit yourself!
posted by Redhush at 12:42 PM on June 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

> Gee, who's a good friend of Dunn's who owns a couple of Lamborghinis?

It was Dietrich!
posted by morganw at 12:50 PM on June 21, 2011

Manjusri: " If you want to wish for something and not just have a moment of hate, wish that the realizations he probably had in his final moments came to him much earlier and helped him make better decisions. Wish that our society wasn't set up to promote this sort of behavior."

Seriously, wishing? Fat lot of good that will do us.
posted by brokkr at 2:18 PM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

Okay. Time for everyone snarking about the drunk driving to get off their high horses:

The coroner also told the site that toxicology results for both men — which would help determine whether alcohol was involved in the crash — would be released in four to six weeks. In the hours before the crash, Dunn was photographed drinking at Barnaby's of America, a bar in West Chester, Pennsylvania, leading some to speculate that he was drunk before the accident occurred. But an employee of the bar told MTV News that he "didn't seem intoxicated."

"He seemed like he was having a good time, hanging out with friends," the employee said. "[He] only had a couple beers here. As far as we're concerned, the biggest thing, our hearts go out to the family and friends, and his loss is a big loss to our community. The biggest thing we're worried about is his friends and family."

That last paragraph has the idea just about right. Some respect to the friends and family would be really nice right about now.

Didn't any of your moms tell you that if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all?
posted by empatterson at 6:40 PM on June 21, 2011 [3 favorites]

Empatterson, that is just...it proves nothing. You think the bar that served him is going to admit he left visibly intoxicated?

Not saying that gives people reason to snark, though.
posted by misha at 6:50 PM on June 21, 2011

Okay. Time for everyone snarking about the drunk driving to get off their high horses:

I'm against drugged up horses too!
posted by mazola at 6:57 PM on June 21, 2011 [2 favorites]

The skid marks on the left show diminishing ground contact on one wheel. The skid marks on the right show one wheel that starts with ABS interruptions, then gradually fades out. And the second right wheel doesn’t show anything much at all. It looks like Dunn somehow managed to make a state of the art Porsche get up on two wheels and come close to rolling on a fairly straight stretch of road.

It would take a seasoned jackass to do that.

I searched high and low to see if there was even the slightest evidence that Dunn had invested anything at all into learning how to drive a high performance car, or any car, at its limits... and came up empty. As near as I could find the only thing he did was to buy a sexy set of after market wheel rims to make the car “look better”.

His death is a much a product of not learning, or caring, how to handle a street legal race car as it is of drunk driving.

I’m embarrassed to admit that I know what I’m talking about, due to having done a 360 in a Porsche 914 at 85 mph while a bit intoxicated. I caught it and straightened it out and went on my way... after I got it out of the ditch.
posted by Huplescat at 7:29 PM on June 21, 2011

I’m embarrassed to admit that I know what I’m talking about

You should be more embarrassed to admit you are talking out of your backside, as your comment is patent rubbish. Your 'conclusions' from the tyre marks are the worst kind of armchair detective nonsense and proof positive that there really is a justification for professional accident investigators (because it's easy to make ridiculous assertions that look/sound convincing to people from a photo).

Nothing about those marks suggests anything of the sort that the car came close to rolling on those skid marks. The fact that there are marks from both sides of the car right up until it flattens (relatively evenly) the barrier pretty much makes your suggestion that one side was up in the air laughable, does it not? Tyres still make marks when in the air now, do they?

You have invented a scenario and tried to suggest the evidence supports it when it does nothing of the sort.

His death is a much a product of not learning, or caring, how to handle a street legal race car as it is of drunk driving.

Lack of internet evidence of a performance driving school completion that you are able to find does not in any way allow you to make this conclusion. I'm not even going to address the daft 'street legal race car' nonsense. A car with one deflated tyre will produce 3 skid marks, too, as well as swerve to one side as shown with the marks. That is a far more reasonable conclusion from the photograph but you don't see me trying to pretend that the OBVIOUS scenario was that he got a high speed puncture.

I don't necessarily suggest that is what happened at all, but the conclusions of the people 'analysing' that photograph here are about as likely to be correct as someone saying a Pink elephant that was taking LSD got in his path. You don't have anywhere near enough information (least of all a full shot of the tyre marks and final positon of the car) to make these kind of assertions.
posted by Brockles at 7:52 PM on June 21, 2011 [1 favorite]

I searched high and low to see if there was even the slightest evidence that Dunn had invested anything at all into learning how to drive a high performance car, or any car, at its limits... and came up empty.

The current first Google result for "Ryan Dunn racing school" (no quotes) states:

What most of you don't know, is that Ryan has a love affair with cars and racing, has his SCCA license and has been competing for over 6 years with Bimmerworks racing BMW’s. (Motorsports Journal, Jan 2007)

I don't know anything about racing or licenses, but it seems unfair to say he never made any investment. I guess it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things since even the most highly trained drivers can crash, but I'm sort of surprised this detail hasn't been dug up more by news outlets. I heard it on a morning radio show of all places. Someone called in and mentioned that Dunn was a licensed racecar driver. He mentioned the school, too, but I can't recall it.
posted by juliplease at 8:36 PM on June 21, 2011

Ryan Dunn was driving 130 mph when the car slammed into the guardrail, crashed into the woods, and burst into flames.

also, TMZ comments make my head hurt.
posted by nadawi at 9:24 PM on June 21, 2011

Julie Please... Your link is over 4 years old and there is nothing in it to suggest that he ever had any involvement with any kind of legitimate road racing. Furthermore, there is no such thing, regardless of what the article says, as an Ultra High Purity welding certification, and I have no idea where this bullshit came from. I was a master welder with over 20 years in the trade and multiple 6G pipe certifications and an unlimited thickness all position certification at a nuke plant. The only way you can do better than 6G pipe is to certify for boiler tubes.

I know the guy was a welder, but he went on to better things before he had a need to master the trade.

And his reputed dilettante ”racing background” doesn’t pass muster. Those drift guys are a bunch of clowns and, anyway, all he did was to rub shoulders with them.

I never took an interest in anything he did on TV, and never will because I find it disheartening. But I was a welder and I drove drunk in a Porsche. So I can’t help being all over this thing.
posted by Huplescat at 10:34 PM on June 21, 2011

I'm not personally a Jackass fan, but many of my friends are. This guy was an entertainer and a stuntman. Show some respect.

Um, I really don't think I'm being disrespectful. I said only that it sucks when people die, and at no time did I make a judgement about this young man or the way that he died. I merely commented on how noteworthy he was in terms of being memorialized here. Are you saying that everyone who has fans will get Metafilter obit threads when they die?
posted by Nabubrush at 10:53 PM on June 21, 2011

Tragic Jackass star Ryan Dunn was charged with DUI six years before he drove his car off the road and died RadarOnline.com can exclusively reveal.
posted by andoatnp at 11:20 PM on June 21, 2011

It's silly to speculate about exactly what happened at the moment. We don't know if he was drunk, if he was racing someone, if something unexpected happened. We don't even know if the 2nd skid marks even occurred on the same day. All I know is that at 130mph, small mistakes have much more tragic consequences. It's sad that he's gone and perhaps he was being incredibly stupid at the time, but he still deserves respect/compassion. Everyone does.
posted by Soupisgoodfood at 11:56 PM on June 21, 2011

Huplescat writes "Furthermore, there is no such thing, regardless of what the article says, as an Ultra High Purity welding certification"

UHP certification seems to be a thing, though one that seems to be made up to sell courses and not one that seems to be all that hard to get.

Huplescat writes "The skid marks on the left show diminishing ground contact on one wheel. The skid marks on the right show one wheel that starts with ABS interruptions, then gradually fades out. And the second right wheel doesn’t show anything much at all. It looks like Dunn somehow managed to make a state of the art Porsche get up on two wheels and come close to rolling on a fairly straight stretch of road."

You are reading way to much into a set of skid marks that may not have even been made by the car Ryan was driving.
posted by Mitheral at 12:00 AM on June 22, 2011

I know exactly what they mean.

So you're just thick, then? Got it.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 12:54 AM on June 22, 2011

He died as he lived: bearded.
posted by foursentences at 5:11 AM on June 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

Your link is over 4 years old and there is nothing in it to suggest that he ever had any involvement with any kind of legitimate road racing.

Yes there is. As stated, he has an extensive shifter kart background (those things are bloody quick and THE initial step for any serious race driver) and has his SCCA license, for which you need to complete an officially recognised race car driving course (Skip Barber or Jim Russell or similar).

So basically, despite you dismissing it, it is precisely the proof of a background you attacked the guy for not having. Perhaps admitting your poor googling made you jump to a conclusion that isn't valid may be a better option than continuing to flail at your original point.
posted by Brockles at 5:26 AM on June 22, 2011 [2 favorites]

Julie Please... Your link is over 4 years old and there is nothing in it to suggest that he ever had any involvement with any kind of legitimate road racing

An SCCA license is prima facia evidence that he was in fact involved with some kind of legitimate road racing organization and was allowed to drive in competition.
posted by eriko at 6:19 AM on June 22, 2011

... and you guys are arguing about his racing licensing?

Speeding is the culprit here. I'd rather have a drunk driver going 15-25 mph than somebody going 130 almost anywhere.

I have only read a few reports, but it sounds like he had about 5-6 drinks over 4 hours. He probably wasn't that drunk, possibly not even over the legal limit.

Driving 130 is just too fast by any sort of measure. Who knows why; racing would be the most obvious guess.

Could someone explain how deciding to drive drunk is different than deciding to fire a gun downtown in a random direction?

Driving drunk is less dangerous.

There are levels of "driving drunk" (i.e. tipsy vs. smashed). Some guns are deadlier than others, but they are all deadly.

Driving drunk serves (or can serve) a reasonable purpose--getting home. Firing a gun downtown in a random direction serves little purpose.

I'd say a better analogy would be ... driving sleepy.

I'm not condoning drunk driving. I don't think it's comparable to random violence, however. It is extreme carelessness.
posted by mrgrimm at 7:50 AM on June 22, 2011 [2 favorites]

... and you guys are arguing about his racing licensing?

No, we're (or at least I am) rebutting the daft conclusions and assertions that people are making with little, no or erroneous information.

No-one is arguing that he wasn't drunk, wasn't speeding (nor was safe while he was going at that speed) nor that any of the above were responsible acts.
posted by Brockles at 7:54 AM on June 22, 2011

I haven't had much of an opinion on this, but this video of an interview with a sobbing Bam Margera brought me to tears.
posted by desjardins at 8:22 AM on June 22, 2011

In BC his six drinks on four hours would almost certainly put him over our 0.05 limit. BC has the best drink driving laws.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:36 AM on June 22, 2011

So you're just thick, then? Got it.

1. What have I said that's so objectionable to you?
2. Why did this degrade into childish name calling?

I'm tempted to respond with "I know you are, but what am I", because - well - it appears that's the level we've sunk to.
posted by seanyboy at 9:42 AM on June 22, 2011

Police say "Jackass" star Ryan Dunn's blood-alcohol level was more than twice the legal limit when he crashed his Porsche and killed himself and a passenger on Monday in West Chester, Pa.
posted by 26.2 at 11:56 AM on June 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

five fresh fish writes "BC has the best drink driving laws."

Well we have the strictest limits and draconian punishment that has completely tossed the concept of innocent until proven guilty out the window. Enforcement techniques that are now wedging their way into lesser crimes infractions to boot. It's arguable whether they are the best.
posted by Mitheral at 11:58 AM on June 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

How much is too much, anyway?
posted by mazola at 11:59 AM on June 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

BC's drunk driving death rate has been halved because of our new hard laws.

I think it's pretty tough to argue that this isn't best.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:33 PM on June 22, 2011

The Westboro Baptist Church is going to protest Dunn's funeral.

His Jackass costars are bound to be there.

If we can get Anonymous, Karlk Pilkington, Glenn Beck, Julian Assange, Justin Bieber, and Sarah Palin involved somehow, it could be this decade's Wrestlemania.
posted by idiopath at 1:37 PM on June 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

Toxicology testing by the coroner indicated Dunn's blood alcohol concentration was 0.196%...
posted by mrgrimm at 2:19 PM on June 22, 2011

He died as he lived: bearded.

Not unless that was a fireproof beard.

(OK, he was bearded upon impact, and 130-140 mph into a ravine a la Toonces is some impact, so I guess he died bearded, but then his beard would have burst into flames...)
posted by pracowity at 2:38 PM on June 22, 2011

Reports confirm his BAC was .196.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 5:07 PM on June 22, 2011

five fresh fish writes "I think it's pretty tough to argue that this isn't best."

1) I didn't say it wasn't effective. Totalitarian societies often have very low crime rates.
2) I notice they compare a single period to a five year average. I wonder what the rolling minimums and maximums over that five year period are.
3) If death rates rise again are they going to blame the enforcement technique or proclaim that they aren't working? I'm guessing no. Instead they'll call for even harsher penalties and lower limits.

As I see it the perceived success has emboldened the government to go after other targets with the same tactics. Targets that aren't even committing criminal code crimes (excessive speed for example is a motor vehicle act infraction). So not only is the expansion of discretionary punishment handed out police officers where they act as complainant, prosecutor, judge and enforcement bad when applied to impaired driving. It is also oozing out into other areas. Shouldn't be much longer before driving with a dirty plate (an infraction the same as speeding in BC) will result in a seven day impoundment with associated fees and penalties. If it wasn't such a thankless job fraught with hair pulling interference from bylaw officers I'd be getting into the towing business with an eye to servicing the RCMP.
posted by Mitheral at 6:50 PM on June 22, 2011

Yes, I'm sure we're going to plummet down that slippery slope.

0.05 is not unreasonably low. Hard consequences are not inappropriate. And when youve driven in a manner that attracts the cop's attention, it's not unreasonable for them to investigate the cause — and drink driving is a major cause of bad driving.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:29 PM on June 22, 2011 [1 favorite]

He probably wasn't that drunk, possibly not even over the legal limit.
Apparently his blood alcohol level was 0.196.
To put that in perspective: that is a level where you're beyond the range where impairment starts of reflexes, reaction time, gross motor control, staggering and slurred speech and where the possibility of loss of consciousness and memory blackout starts. #
I have no respect for someone who drives 210 km/h (130 mph) while that drunk.
posted by joost de vries at 11:36 PM on June 22, 2011

Turns out Ebert was right. Dunn pulled off the ultimate jackass stunt and killed himself and another human being. There is no sugar coating what an awful thing this was to do. I can find empathy for him, his passenger and the loved ones they leave behind, but this was a jackass maneuver with all too predictable results.
posted by caddis at 7:17 AM on June 23, 2011

Estimates indicate that people pulled over for DUI have driven while impaired something like 87 times before and gotten away with it. Every one of those times, they could have injured or killed someone else on the road, even pedestrians. Every time you get behind the whel, you're at risk because some asshat went out and got drunk without even bothering to make arrangements to get home safe afterward.

And there are people out there who have not one, not two, but many DUI convictions. And they can do that because they just get their license taken away for a little while, pay a fine, and then go right back out and drive.

So I really don't think the drunk driving laws of BC are draconian. Germany has the same (.05) limit for DUI, and some other countries are even lower (Japan's is .03). The idea is not, "Drinking is bad, mmmkay?" It's not a sanctimonious law, but one based on the actual evidence that accidents are not only more likely to happen if you drive when impaired, but that, when they do, they will be more severe. Injuries and fatalities are much more likely to result. Drink all you want, just don't drive impaired.

And yes, driving while half-asleep is also driving impaired, but that's a strawman here. We can't test for 'blood tiredness levels'. We can test for alcohol.

Mitheral, you are doing a lot of slippery slope theorizing. Don't people still have legal options to contest charges against them, appeal them and so forth, in BC? If so, the police are not judge and prosecutor, etc. Conflating tougher DUI laws to totalitarian regimes is just absurd hyperbole that has no place in a reasonable debate over the issue.

Dunn had at least one prior DUI, but that didn't stop him from getting behind the wheel that night.The only positive in all this is that he didn't hit another car and take more lives along with them. Be afan of his movies all you want, but he was absolutely being a jackass the night he died.
posted by misha at 9:43 AM on June 23, 2011

I thought the show was funny most of the time (except for Steve-O and all his gross milk-drinking). I don't get people expecting high class sophistication from a show with that title.
posted by FunkyStar at 9:44 AM on June 23, 2011

Lowering the BAC limits doesn't really get at the heart of the problem. True social drinkers who get in their car after two beers are not the primary killers in DUI accidents. It is major drinkers who get their BAC up into the teens or higher who cause the crashes. The risks rise dramatically after about .10. As misha points out, most people who get caught for DUI have done it many times before and even after they get caught many will continue drunk driving. Lots of heavy drinkers and alcoholics routinely hit the road drunk. Lowering the BAC limit is not going to make it more likely to remove these folks from the road. They aren't driving at .05; they are more like .15 or higher. Higher penalties also do not provide much deterrence when problem drinkers are involved. Politicians love to enact draconian laws to show that they are doing something about a difficult problem, but to me it seems more show than anything, much like the anti-drug laws. Most of the people who endanger the rest of us are problem drinkers. Address the alcoholics, educate the binge drinkers, and provide alternative transportation to make a real difference. If you are to enact a really low BAC limit perhaps it is best used to get drinkers into the system where they can be monitored rather than to dole out some harsh penalty to a mild offender. BAC interlocks also seem like a good idea and perhaps those mild offenders are targeted for that.
posted by caddis at 10:43 AM on June 23, 2011

I bet I don't know one single adult IRL who hasn't driven while drunk at least once. Only a few were ever caught, and the harshest penalty I've heard of was 30 days in jail with work release. I just generally don't drive late at night because it's so pervasive. Even after all the education and enforcement, it's still not perceived as that big of a deal around here.

Compare that to smoking, which will make you a social pariah in a lot of the same circles.

The only way I can think of to further cut down on it is to offer 1) free cab rides home, no questions asked, 2) free parking for wherever you left your car 3) a free cab ride to your car in the morning.
posted by desjardins at 10:55 AM on June 23, 2011

Madison has (or at least it used to have) just such a program. Tavern owners would have cards which would get you a ride home and then a ride back to your car the next morning, courtesy of the local tavern owners association or some such organization. I don't know about the parking though. Unfortunately, it was not widely used.
posted by caddis at 11:15 AM on June 23, 2011

misha writes "Mitheral, you are doing a lot of slippery slope theorizing. Don't people still have legal options to contest charges against them, appeal them and so forth, in BC? If so, the police are not judge and prosecutor, etc."

Short answer: No. Not in some of the cases we're talking about.

I have no problem with .08 limit or even BC's .05 semi limit. I'd even favour a Swedish .02BAC limit in BC though I'd oppose a zero limit because of people being legally impaired after a slice of rum cake or whatever. However as currently implemented in BC the Police have the power to seize your car at the roadside for up to seven days (and longer for repeat offenders) without you blowing even a .05. The officer can decide you are impaired and here comes the tow truck and you are walking home and to and from work for the next week. This happens immediately and not after any chance to present your case to a judge. And that worked so well for DUIs they've extended those penalties to speeding and other infractions like tailgating and stunting or being improperly licensed (which can be as minor as not displaying the proper N for new drivers under the graduated licensing program). The owner is responsible for all towing and inpoundment fees (say $300) and the impoundment is not able to be appealed unless it's for 30 days or more.

I know a lot of people think cops never make mistakes but I believe that there is good reason to have prosecution separated from enforcement instead of an all in one Judge Dread type solution.

I was a lot more laise faire about this kind of thing until after 15 years of driving (and two speeding tickets for less than 15km/h over during that period) I made the mistake of buy a car that looked fast. The harassment (but never a ticket) I received from cops driving the 95hp "sports car" vs the complete invisibility I had driving a 400 horse car that happened to look like something grandma drove was a real eye opener. Many traffic cops are power tripping twits who appear to be angry anyone else dares drive their roads. They shouldn't have the power to impose penalties without judicial review.
posted by Mitheral at 12:37 PM on June 23, 2011

However as currently implemented in BC the Police have the power to seize your car at the roadside for up to seven days (and longer for repeat offenders) without you blowing even a .05

Under the new laws, drivers caught with a blood alcohol level in the warning range — between 0.05 and 0.08 per cent — face immediate seizure of their vehicle, a three-day driving ban and a $200 fine

That's the applicable law, so if you are saying that police are ACTUALLY impounding cars for 7 days when they test <.05, then I guess there is a reason to be angry. Do you have any sources whatsoever to back up that claim?

Anyway, BC is planning a review of the policies which should make you happier.

They're aren't reviewing because it's not working, but because bars have seen alcohol sales drop 10-15% since the new laws.
posted by misha at 9:25 PM on June 23, 2011 [1 favorite]