Broken Angel: architectural outsider art
September 9, 2011 9:48 AM Subscribe
"Broken Angel isn’t architecture - it’s outsider art." A profile of Arthur Wood, whose lack of formal training did not prevent him from adding six stories of wild additions to the two-story Brooklyn tenement building he bought for $2,000 in 1971.
In the wake of a 2006 fire at the building, the city's DOB cracked down on Broken Angel and evicted Wood and his wife Cynthia; the next year Wood received help from the nearby Pratt School of architecture and a local developer agreed to convert much of the building into condominiums. In 2009 the building, now stripped of most of its additions, was placed on the market; Cynthia Wood succumbed to cancer in 2010.
Here is a flickr set for the house by Arthur Wood's son Christopher.
In the wake of a 2006 fire at the building, the city's DOB cracked down on Broken Angel and evicted Wood and his wife Cynthia; the next year Wood received help from the nearby Pratt School of architecture and a local developer agreed to convert much of the building into condominiums. In 2009 the building, now stripped of most of its additions, was placed on the market; Cynthia Wood succumbed to cancer in 2010.
Here is a flickr set for the house by Arthur Wood's son Christopher.
(The Pratt link seems to be broken.)
This is my neighborhood - I haven't seen any kind of work done on this space yet, but the last time I was near was in early June. I wish I'd been able to see inside.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:10 AM on September 9, 2011
This is my neighborhood - I haven't seen any kind of work done on this space yet, but the last time I was near was in early June. I wish I'd been able to see inside.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:10 AM on September 9, 2011
Edward James in the city! Awesome. Sad it hasn't survived intact.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:12 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:12 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was just reading the Pratt link, but it does seem to have gone away now. Weird.
I wish it had stayed, but at least it's documented. There's not enough good weird in this world.
posted by pupdog at 10:13 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I wish it had stayed, but at least it's documented. There's not enough good weird in this world.
posted by pupdog at 10:13 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I hate the term "Outsider Art." You do not have to have formal training to be an artist, there is no apprenticeship. Either you produce good work or you don't. Either you can make a living at it or you can't. The first point is debatable, the second is a standard, but neither depend on being part of a group.
posted by cjorgensen at 10:30 AM on September 9, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by cjorgensen at 10:30 AM on September 9, 2011 [10 favorites]
Rest in peace Cynthia
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:33 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:33 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
cjorgensen, "outsider art" means art by people who are outside contemporary culture (often 'crazy' people), not people who haven't studied art, or whatever.
posted by Jairus at 10:37 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by Jairus at 10:37 AM on September 9, 2011
Huh. I don't particularly fear earthquakes, probably because I grew up with them. But that building, holy fuck. That's the kind of bullshit I fear, rather than the quakes themselves.
posted by ryanrs at 10:40 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ryanrs at 10:40 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've always felt that the term 'outsider art' is pretty condescending and, ultimately, disingenuous. Is that true or is it just my perception?
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:44 AM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:44 AM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
On review of pts's comment above, I guess what I'm wondering also is whether we really do need a separate term for art that doesn't occur in galleries? That concept is really rubbing me the wrong way...
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:47 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by Doleful Creature at 10:47 AM on September 9, 2011
I've always felt that the term 'outsider art' is pretty condescending and, ultimately, disingenuous. Is that true or is it just my perception?
That's funny, because I've often found art "insiders" to be generally condescending and ultimately disingenuous.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:50 AM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
That's funny, because I've often found art "insiders" to be generally condescending and ultimately disingenuous.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 10:50 AM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
I guess what I'm wondering also is whether we really do need a separate term for art that doesn't occur in galleries?
At the risk of repeating myself, that's not what Outsider Art means. Raw Vision defines it as:
"It is not enough to be untrained, clumsy or naïve. Outsider Art is virtually synonymous with Art Brut in both spirit and meaning, to that rarity of art produced by those who do not know its name."
It's not about art outside of galleries, it's about art outside of culture itself. People in crazy houses. People who live in shacks and shoot at you if you come near them. People that live lives unlike the lives of 99% of other people in their culture.
posted by Jairus at 10:53 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
At the risk of repeating myself, that's not what Outsider Art means. Raw Vision defines it as:
"It is not enough to be untrained, clumsy or naïve. Outsider Art is virtually synonymous with Art Brut in both spirit and meaning, to that rarity of art produced by those who do not know its name."
It's not about art outside of galleries, it's about art outside of culture itself. People in crazy houses. People who live in shacks and shoot at you if you come near them. People that live lives unlike the lives of 99% of other people in their culture.
posted by Jairus at 10:53 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Astrid: Your husband's work is what we call "outsider art." It could be by a mental patient, a hillbilly or a chimpanzee.
Homer: In high school I was voted most likely to *be* a mental patient, hillbilly or chimpanzee!
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 11:03 AM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Homer: In high school I was voted most likely to *be* a mental patient, hillbilly or chimpanzee!
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 11:03 AM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
If we thought that art by people outside the culture of making art was uniformly inferior, we wouldn't need the term "outsider art". We would just call it bad art or amateur art. The point in the phrase is to say "OK, they don't come from the mainstream culture and don't know the standard points of reference for their craft, but it is worth looking and talking about".
Look at computer programming for example. Nobody ever talks about "outsider code", they talk about shitty code. Similarly in carpentry or almost any other craft. But with art we are actually more accepting of nonstandard approaches, so much so that we even take the time to make up a neutral term for it that isn't simply a term of derision.
posted by idiopath at 11:03 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Look at computer programming for example. Nobody ever talks about "outsider code", they talk about shitty code. Similarly in carpentry or almost any other craft. But with art we are actually more accepting of nonstandard approaches, so much so that we even take the time to make up a neutral term for it that isn't simply a term of derision.
posted by idiopath at 11:03 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I don't know, Jairus. None of the time I took Howard Finster a watermelon (or whatever I'd brought that day) did he try and shoot at me. Mostly, he just thanked me and talked about the weather and then showed me what he was working on.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:04 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:04 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
In my admittedly limited experience, "outsider art" = "no formal training" + "delusions of grandeur".
posted by nathancaswell at 11:06 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by nathancaswell at 11:06 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Your delusion of grandeur is my charming optimism. We need more people that attempt oversized things they are not qualified for. In art that is. In the real world you get George W. Bush. But in the art world where people are less likely to get hurt a bit of arrogance is a beautiful thing.
posted by idiopath at 11:12 AM on September 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by idiopath at 11:12 AM on September 9, 2011 [9 favorites]
Even if you take the outside the culture, or the nutjob definition, I still don't like the term. At the end of the day you either have something that is good or appreciated and valued or you don't.
You have that guy that did the total crazy cat drawings and he was pretty unbalanced, but as far as I know no one considers his art to be "Outsider," but if you can someone that's worked with clay for 40 years, but didn't bother to take the traditional training they are considered outside.
I guess I think the term is too arbitrary. It is often applied to people as a dismissive term. I don't see it as neutral at all. When I pick up a book that is called "Outsider Art" it is going to be filled with kitsch and grotto-magic, but to me that's not what most people tat make "Outsider" art do.
It's like music to me. We don't make exceptions or judgements based on the individual's training, we only care if the sound is pleasing. (I know this analogy has flaws.)
posted by cjorgensen at 11:12 AM on September 9, 2011
You have that guy that did the total crazy cat drawings and he was pretty unbalanced, but as far as I know no one considers his art to be "Outsider," but if you can someone that's worked with clay for 40 years, but didn't bother to take the traditional training they are considered outside.
I guess I think the term is too arbitrary. It is often applied to people as a dismissive term. I don't see it as neutral at all. When I pick up a book that is called "Outsider Art" it is going to be filled with kitsch and grotto-magic, but to me that's not what most people tat make "Outsider" art do.
It's like music to me. We don't make exceptions or judgements based on the individual's training, we only care if the sound is pleasing. (I know this analogy has flaws.)
posted by cjorgensen at 11:12 AM on September 9, 2011
A very notable outsider artist was Judith Scott, a woman with Down Syndrome who made these fiber wrapped objects. She's definitely worth knowing about and might go a long way to understanding what people mean when they say "outsider".
For me, it's about the unfiltered emotions I can have from experiencing something someone else has made with none of the context I'm familiar with, and usually any of their context is the internal sort that I could never grasp even if I tried. I think the best art is about cracking ourselves open and sharing bits of ourselves with other people. And some of us have a shared language to do that with - an art tradition and culture. But some of us don't, and the people who still make art and share things who don't have that language are outsiders. It's not a disparaging term.
I do, however, kind of feel like the term is on its way out as the various art culture across the world intersect more and more, and people with different modes of communication have ways to get their ideas out there more clearly through technology. Outsider art is kind of a stop-gap, a way of lumping things apart and together, when there's a whole spectrum between that's getting harder to ignore.
Anyway this Broken Angel place looks magic in a base way to me. I'd be terrified of it if I were to walk past it and I'd never want to go in, but I'd spend half my time making up stories about what goes on inside of it. I'm kind of sad the mystery is ruined by the article.
posted by Mizu at 11:17 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
For me, it's about the unfiltered emotions I can have from experiencing something someone else has made with none of the context I'm familiar with, and usually any of their context is the internal sort that I could never grasp even if I tried. I think the best art is about cracking ourselves open and sharing bits of ourselves with other people. And some of us have a shared language to do that with - an art tradition and culture. But some of us don't, and the people who still make art and share things who don't have that language are outsiders. It's not a disparaging term.
I do, however, kind of feel like the term is on its way out as the various art culture across the world intersect more and more, and people with different modes of communication have ways to get their ideas out there more clearly through technology. Outsider art is kind of a stop-gap, a way of lumping things apart and together, when there's a whole spectrum between that's getting harder to ignore.
Anyway this Broken Angel place looks magic in a base way to me. I'd be terrified of it if I were to walk past it and I'd never want to go in, but I'd spend half my time making up stories about what goes on inside of it. I'm kind of sad the mystery is ruined by the article.
posted by Mizu at 11:17 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I love Broken Angel! When I first moved to Clinton Hill several years ago, some friends told me there was a "scary house" in the neighborhood. They couldn't really describe it and weren't sure exactly where it was. One day I went looking for the scary house, and I swear I walked up and down every block in the neighborhood, for hours, before I gave up.
I was almost home when I saw the very top of this bizarre structure a block or two away. I knew I'd found it, practically around the corner. When I finally got there, I think my jaw literally dropped. Oh my god, it was the most overwhelming, amazing, wonderful thing I'd ever seen. I was heartbroken when it had to be dismantled.
I saw Arthur and Cynthia in the neighborhood shortly after it all happened and told them how much I loved their house and how sad I was that it was gone. Prints of some of their son's beautiful photos were being sold at Artez'n back then and I bought a couple.
I understand the concerns about the structural integrity of the building, but I think it's a tragedy that it couldn't be preserved. It was just magnificent.
(Also, damn you whir, I was just putting together my first FPP about Broken Angel.)
posted by Mavri at 11:18 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I was almost home when I saw the very top of this bizarre structure a block or two away. I knew I'd found it, practically around the corner. When I finally got there, I think my jaw literally dropped. Oh my god, it was the most overwhelming, amazing, wonderful thing I'd ever seen. I was heartbroken when it had to be dismantled.
I saw Arthur and Cynthia in the neighborhood shortly after it all happened and told them how much I loved their house and how sad I was that it was gone. Prints of some of their son's beautiful photos were being sold at Artez'n back then and I bought a couple.
I understand the concerns about the structural integrity of the building, but I think it's a tragedy that it couldn't be preserved. It was just magnificent.
(Also, damn you whir, I was just putting together my first FPP about Broken Angel.)
posted by Mavri at 11:18 AM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
We have country music, rock music, rap music... we have high art, abstract art, and outsider art. It's a further signifier, not an exclusive identifier.
posted by jenkinsEar at 11:18 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by jenkinsEar at 11:18 AM on September 9, 2011
cjorgensen: "It's like music to me. We don't make exceptions or judgements based on the individual's training, we only care if the sound is pleasing."
cjorgenson, that is exactly my point.
I listen to and do outsider music, and it requires an understanding that it is coming from a completely different place in order to be appreciated. If you listen to my music and think I am trying to make rock and roll, yeah it is going to suck. The outsider label is a suggestion that one should give something a second chance. And I actually have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about the double standard, where outsider visual art is well appreciated inside and outside the art world, but outsider music is not nearly as well appreciated. I do understand that music and visual art are completely different kinds of experience where audiences will naturally have different tolerance levels for the unfamiliar etc.
posted by idiopath at 11:18 AM on September 9, 2011
cjorgenson, that is exactly my point.
I listen to and do outsider music, and it requires an understanding that it is coming from a completely different place in order to be appreciated. If you listen to my music and think I am trying to make rock and roll, yeah it is going to suck. The outsider label is a suggestion that one should give something a second chance. And I actually have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about the double standard, where outsider visual art is well appreciated inside and outside the art world, but outsider music is not nearly as well appreciated. I do understand that music and visual art are completely different kinds of experience where audiences will naturally have different tolerance levels for the unfamiliar etc.
posted by idiopath at 11:18 AM on September 9, 2011
Sorry! I was sure somebody would have already scooped me.
posted by whir at 11:19 AM on September 9, 2011
posted by whir at 11:19 AM on September 9, 2011
Look at computer programming for example. Nobody ever talks about "outsider code", they talk about shitty code. Similarly in carpentry or almost any other craft. But with art we are actually more accepting of nonstandard approaches, so much so that we even take the time to make up a neutral term for it that isn't simply a term of derision.
I think reading the weird code posted to places like The Daily WTF or looking at weird repair jobs on There I Fixed It is actually compelling for a lot of the same reasons that outsider art or naive art is compelling. I think the main difference is that art is always about generating some sort of response by the audience, whereas other crafts have utilitarian purpose that can be judged as "bad" in a functional way. In both cases though there is a sort of novelty in seeing something that doesn't conform to the expected standards in a unique way, without just being on-conformity for the sake of non-conformity. I think it's that aspect that tends to tinge the mainstream acceptance of outsider art as condescending though, because it's inherently a more ironic and detached way of viewing art than viewing something from within the mainstream within the expectations of the mainstream culture.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:25 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I think reading the weird code posted to places like The Daily WTF or looking at weird repair jobs on There I Fixed It is actually compelling for a lot of the same reasons that outsider art or naive art is compelling. I think the main difference is that art is always about generating some sort of response by the audience, whereas other crafts have utilitarian purpose that can be judged as "bad" in a functional way. In both cases though there is a sort of novelty in seeing something that doesn't conform to the expected standards in a unique way, without just being on-conformity for the sake of non-conformity. I think it's that aspect that tends to tinge the mainstream acceptance of outsider art as condescending though, because it's inherently a more ironic and detached way of viewing art than viewing something from within the mainstream within the expectations of the mainstream culture.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:25 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
but as far as I know no one considers his art to be "Outsider,"
That's cause Louis Wain was a successful commercial illustrator and cartoonist.
posted by The Whelk at 11:26 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's cause Louis Wain was a successful commercial illustrator and cartoonist.
posted by The Whelk at 11:26 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
But in the art world where people are less likely to get hurt...
Well sure, if you want to make the boring kind of art.
posted by Hoopo at 11:27 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Well sure, if you want to make the boring kind of art.
posted by Hoopo at 11:27 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
burnmp3s: "it's inherently a more ironic and detached way of viewing art than viewing something from within the mainstream within the expectations of the mainstream culture"
Pop culture is compulsively detached, it loves irony, its face is plastered with a constant knowing smirk, its two dominant gestures are pandering and condescension.
The difference is that this other stuff is unfamiliar.
posted by idiopath at 11:31 AM on September 9, 2011
Pop culture is compulsively detached, it loves irony, its face is plastered with a constant knowing smirk, its two dominant gestures are pandering and condescension.
The difference is that this other stuff is unfamiliar.
posted by idiopath at 11:31 AM on September 9, 2011
One possible definition for "outsider artist" is "just plain doesn't give a crap whether anyone likes or dislikes his work so long as HE likes it."
I saw an interview with Eddie Boros once -- he's the guy who did that huge weird Tower sculpture in one of the East Village's gardens, a tower that went on to be included in the opening credits to NYPD BLUE and to being spotlit in RENT. Eddie had a great comment somewhere in it that I think may sum up the "outsider" mindset:
"So many people talk about wanting an 'original'. They just had someone buy some painting by Van Gogh for millions of dollars just becuase it was an original. Why the hell would you want to spend MONEY for something original? If you want an original so bad, just get some paint and some paper and make your own painting, and you've got an original painting for just a few bucks."
He didn't give one damn whether anyone liked or hated his tower -- HE liked it, and that's all that mattered. If other people liked it, great; if they didn't, well, he wasn't doing it to make them happy anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:32 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
I saw an interview with Eddie Boros once -- he's the guy who did that huge weird Tower sculpture in one of the East Village's gardens, a tower that went on to be included in the opening credits to NYPD BLUE and to being spotlit in RENT. Eddie had a great comment somewhere in it that I think may sum up the "outsider" mindset:
"So many people talk about wanting an 'original'. They just had someone buy some painting by Van Gogh for millions of dollars just becuase it was an original. Why the hell would you want to spend MONEY for something original? If you want an original so bad, just get some paint and some paper and make your own painting, and you've got an original painting for just a few bucks."
He didn't give one damn whether anyone liked or hated his tower -- HE liked it, and that's all that mattered. If other people liked it, great; if they didn't, well, he wasn't doing it to make them happy anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:32 AM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
The term "outsider art" used to mean something, but art students have been making what they call outside art for so long that the term has been drained of meaning. Still, ya know it when you see it...and this, like Watts Towers and that crazy place off of I-80 just before you get into California with all that broken glass and ceramics embedded into concrete and all that Southern Jesus stuff...I like it.
posted by kozad at 11:44 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by kozad at 11:44 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
but as far as I know no one considers his art to be "Outsider,"
That's cause Louis Wain was a successful commercial illustrator and cartoonist.
This is a key point. Outsider art is not "art by crazy people" - otherwise, Brian Wilson and Syd Barrett would be considered outsider musicians. Outsider art is about a lack of formal training and a lack of a traditional "art-centric" social circle.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:45 AM on September 9, 2011
That's cause Louis Wain was a successful commercial illustrator and cartoonist.
This is a key point. Outsider art is not "art by crazy people" - otherwise, Brian Wilson and Syd Barrett would be considered outsider musicians. Outsider art is about a lack of formal training and a lack of a traditional "art-centric" social circle.
posted by Sticherbeast at 11:45 AM on September 9, 2011
I listen to and do outsider music, and it requires an understanding that it is coming from a completely different place in order to be appreciated.
...
I actually have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about the double standard, where outsider visual art is well appreciated inside and outside the art world, but outsider music is not nearly as well appreciated.
I think these two points are related though. You could show an average person James Hampton's work and tell them that it was done by a great new artist and they would probably appreciate the aesthetic qualities and would never expect it was done by some unknown and untrained janitor. Whereas if you play The Shaggs for the average person and tell them it's a great new band, they will immediately notice something is off and will probably say that the band sounds terrible. It's at more of a basic level for music than just unfamiliarity I think, although part of the reason could be that music tends to be much less formulaic and have more expectations around structure that normal people notice than visual arts. I think with visual outsider art, the outsider part is not as fundamental to the appreciation of it as it is with outsider music.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:48 AM on September 9, 2011
...
I actually have a bit of a chip on my shoulder about the double standard, where outsider visual art is well appreciated inside and outside the art world, but outsider music is not nearly as well appreciated.
I think these two points are related though. You could show an average person James Hampton's work and tell them that it was done by a great new artist and they would probably appreciate the aesthetic qualities and would never expect it was done by some unknown and untrained janitor. Whereas if you play The Shaggs for the average person and tell them it's a great new band, they will immediately notice something is off and will probably say that the band sounds terrible. It's at more of a basic level for music than just unfamiliarity I think, although part of the reason could be that music tends to be much less formulaic and have more expectations around structure that normal people notice than visual arts. I think with visual outsider art, the outsider part is not as fundamental to the appreciation of it as it is with outsider music.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:48 AM on September 9, 2011
One possible definition for "outsider artist" is "just plain doesn't give a crap whether anyone likes or dislikes his work so long as HE likes it."
Unless you are a commercial artist, that definition is also applicable to art as well.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:49 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Unless you are a commercial artist, that definition is also applicable to art as well.
posted by oneirodynia at 11:49 AM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Unless you are a commercial artist, that definition is also applicable to art as well.
Having floated around the contemporary art world in various capacities, I can't agree. Contemporary/fine/whatever artists often want their work to be known and accepted just as much as anyone else.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:01 PM on September 9, 2011
Having floated around the contemporary art world in various capacities, I can't agree. Contemporary/fine/whatever artists often want their work to be known and accepted just as much as anyone else.
posted by Sticherbeast at 12:01 PM on September 9, 2011
man "good weird" is only a little less grating term than "bad crazy"
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 12:11 PM on September 9, 2011
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 12:11 PM on September 9, 2011
Those paintings are amazing.
posted by rusty at 12:27 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by rusty at 12:27 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
This guy is awesome. I want to be like him when I grow up.
I think I'm well on the path to it already.
posted by egypturnash at 12:34 PM on September 9, 2011
I think I'm well on the path to it already.
posted by egypturnash at 12:34 PM on September 9, 2011
Regardless of what you call it, Broken Angel looks like it was an amazing place. It reminds me of the self-taught architecture that thrived up in the Catskill mountains in the 60s and 70s. Woodstock Handmade Houses type stuff. That he built this in the heart of the city is particularly awesome.
posted by gyusan at 12:37 PM on September 9, 2011
posted by gyusan at 12:37 PM on September 9, 2011
"music tends to be much less formulaic and have more expectations around structure that normal people notice than visual art"
What do you mean by "formulaic" here? People seem very good at detecting departures from the expected formula in music.
posted by idiopath at 12:48 PM on September 9, 2011
What do you mean by "formulaic" here? People seem very good at detecting departures from the expected formula in music.
posted by idiopath at 12:48 PM on September 9, 2011
I just wrote a long response to this and then realized that I have a need to document my years with the American Visionary Art Museum in some sort of detailed way for which this probably isn't the right venue, and I'm feeling a little bound by the fact that I still work peripherally in the arts in Baltimore, so...sheeesh.
I did once destroy a Howard Finster piece on my table saw, had to bathe a squirrel, euthanized a duck, was impaled in the scalp by a meditation chapel, disco-danced in a nun's habit, discussed my dream bed with Temple Grandin, put a whoopie cushion under a monk, pedaled a fifteen foot poodle twenty miles in gay biker leathers, got my hand stuck under Helen Thomas, wore a bra made of saw blades, got trapped in a Bergdorf Goodman window under a robot, built a mosaic with delinquents, scooped clown shit up in a bucket, built a theremin out of stained glass, performed a double wedding of robot mates, and otherwise had an adventure or two along the way.
We're all outsiders. We just pretend not to be, and it's our loss.
I think I need to go home and hit the typewriter.
posted by sonascope at 12:49 PM on September 9, 2011 [12 favorites]
I did once destroy a Howard Finster piece on my table saw, had to bathe a squirrel, euthanized a duck, was impaled in the scalp by a meditation chapel, disco-danced in a nun's habit, discussed my dream bed with Temple Grandin, put a whoopie cushion under a monk, pedaled a fifteen foot poodle twenty miles in gay biker leathers, got my hand stuck under Helen Thomas, wore a bra made of saw blades, got trapped in a Bergdorf Goodman window under a robot, built a mosaic with delinquents, scooped clown shit up in a bucket, built a theremin out of stained glass, performed a double wedding of robot mates, and otherwise had an adventure or two along the way.
We're all outsiders. We just pretend not to be, and it's our loss.
I think I need to go home and hit the typewriter.
posted by sonascope at 12:49 PM on September 9, 2011 [12 favorites]
"music tends to be much less formulaic and have more expectations around structure that normal people notice than visual art"
What do you mean by "formulaic" here? People seem very good at detecting departures from the expected formula in music.
Sorry, I meant "more fomulaic".
posted by burnmp3s at 1:00 PM on September 9, 2011
What do you mean by "formulaic" here? People seem very good at detecting departures from the expected formula in music.
Sorry, I meant "more fomulaic".
posted by burnmp3s at 1:00 PM on September 9, 2011
got trapped in a Bergdorf Goodman window under a robot,
YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR CRIMES AGAINST THE METAL MEN
posted by The Whelk at 1:02 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
YOU WILL PAY FOR YOUR CRIMES AGAINST THE METAL MEN
posted by The Whelk at 1:02 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
The term "outsider art" used to mean something, but art students have been making what they call outside art for so long that the term has been drained of meaning. Still, ya know it when you see it...and this, like Watts Towers and that crazy place off of I-80 just before you get into California with all that broken glass and ceramics embedded into concrete and all that Southern Jesus stuff...I like it.
Then I suspect you would enjoy the Heidelberg Project, brainchild of Detroit native Tyree Guyton. I am kinda surprised it has not been mentioned yet in this thread.
posted by joe lisboa at 1:06 PM on September 9, 2011
Then I suspect you would enjoy the Heidelberg Project, brainchild of Detroit native Tyree Guyton. I am kinda surprised it has not been mentioned yet in this thread.
posted by joe lisboa at 1:06 PM on September 9, 2011
I saw an interview with Eddie Boros once -- he's the guy who did that huge weird Tower sculpture in one of the East Village's gardens ... He didn't give one damn whether anyone liked or hated his tower -- HE liked it, and that's all that mattered.
posted by EmpressCallipygos
I met him at an east village BBQ. I said I liked his shirt, and he took it off, and insisted that I take it, and went shirtless for the rest of the afternoon.
posted by StickyCarpet at 1:07 PM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos
I met him at an east village BBQ. I said I liked his shirt, and he took it off, and insisted that I take it, and went shirtless for the rest of the afternoon.
posted by StickyCarpet at 1:07 PM on September 9, 2011 [3 favorites]
I guess "outsider art" is the generalized version of the literary term "sui generis"
posted by LogicalDash at 1:11 PM on September 9, 2011
posted by LogicalDash at 1:11 PM on September 9, 2011
I'm a fan of art and all that, but when a hurricane or earthquake hits this kind of structure and it falls over and kills people on the sidewalk, or it burns down and a bunch of teenagers can't get out because it doesn't have enough fire exits...well, there are reasons for building codes.
posted by Chekhovian at 1:24 PM on September 9, 2011
posted by Chekhovian at 1:24 PM on September 9, 2011
Just five minutes ago I was chatting with Gordon Hatt (context: current artistic director for CAFK+A and has done curation for TO Nuit Blanche) and for him artists are people who do things that normal people don't do anymore. They break through the mental walls that are built when non-artists grow up. In that context, all artists are outsiders -- or, at least, they end up outside; outside those walls.
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:32 PM on September 9, 2011
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:32 PM on September 9, 2011
I'm a fan of art and all that, but when a hurricane or earthquake hits this kind of structure and it falls over and kills people on the sidewalk
GUYS IF WE STOP BUILDING OUR GIANT TEMPLES TO OURSELVES MADE OUT OF CRAP THEN IRENE WINS
posted by nathancaswell at 1:51 PM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
GUYS IF WE STOP BUILDING OUR GIANT TEMPLES TO OURSELVES MADE OUT OF CRAP THEN IRENE WINS
posted by nathancaswell at 1:51 PM on September 9, 2011 [2 favorites]
Innercity architecture is perhaps a bad medium for outsider art.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:02 PM on September 9, 2011
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:02 PM on September 9, 2011
Jairus
People who live in shacks and shoot at you if you come near them. People that live lives unlike the lives of 99% of other people in their culture.
You mean like Hasil Adkins..?
Also, Arthur Wood reminds me so much of my Dad it's scary. Really really scary.
The inventions, the painting, the building, the attitude... (the level of crazy)
My Dad's only around 60, so he has time to catch up. When you read a building like this has popped up in London, remember where you heard it first.
posted by Zorsha at 2:05 PM on September 9, 2011
People who live in shacks and shoot at you if you come near them. People that live lives unlike the lives of 99% of other people in their culture.
You mean like Hasil Adkins..?
Also, Arthur Wood reminds me so much of my Dad it's scary. Really really scary.
The inventions, the painting, the building, the attitude... (the level of crazy)
My Dad's only around 60, so he has time to catch up. When you read a building like this has popped up in London, remember where you heard it first.
posted by Zorsha at 2:05 PM on September 9, 2011
I did once destroy a Howard Finster piece on my table saw, had to bathe a squirrel, euthanized a duck, was impaled in the scalp by a meditation chapel, disco-danced in a nun's habit, discussed my dream bed with Temple Grandin, put a whoopie cushion under a monk, pedaled a fifteen foot poodle twenty miles in gay biker leathers, got my hand stuck under Helen Thomas, wore a bra made of saw blades, got trapped in a Bergdorf Goodman window under a robot, built a mosaic with delinquents, scooped clown shit up in a bucket, built a theremin out of stained glass, performed a double wedding of robot mates, and otherwise had an adventure or two along the way.
*blink*
I have, like, ten stories I want to ask you to tell and I can't decide which one I want first.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:19 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
*blink*
I have, like, ten stories I want to ask you to tell and I can't decide which one I want first.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:19 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I hate the term "Outsider Art." You do not have to have formal training to be an artist, there is no apprenticeship. Either you produce good work or you don't. Either you can make a living at it or you can't. The first point is debatable, the second is a standard, but neither depend on being part of a group.
Jesus, it isn't a term used by people who want to denigrate it -- almost by definition it's a term used by people who want to include it and bring it to the attention of those who would normally only consider "insider" art. It's a term for art that would otherwise be ignored. Often outsider art only gets that label after a single advocate's toil to get them recognition. Fans of outsider art are exactly the sort of people you would prefer to spend time with. They don't use the term to slight the artists.
That said, I find this building's former appearance charming, but probably structurally dangerous.
posted by dhartung at 2:21 PM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
Jesus, it isn't a term used by people who want to denigrate it -- almost by definition it's a term used by people who want to include it and bring it to the attention of those who would normally only consider "insider" art. It's a term for art that would otherwise be ignored. Often outsider art only gets that label after a single advocate's toil to get them recognition. Fans of outsider art are exactly the sort of people you would prefer to spend time with. They don't use the term to slight the artists.
That said, I find this building's former appearance charming, but probably structurally dangerous.
posted by dhartung at 2:21 PM on September 9, 2011 [4 favorites]
"Innercity architecture is perhaps a bad medium for outsider art."
I guess outsider art is hidden away most of the time, but this guy is right out there in the middle of civilization, doing his thing in the most public way possible. It's like he's daring all the people who live in ordinary buildings, asking them "Why doesn't your house look like this?" Other buildings must look a little drab in comparison.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:21 PM on September 9, 2011
I guess outsider art is hidden away most of the time, but this guy is right out there in the middle of civilization, doing his thing in the most public way possible. It's like he's daring all the people who live in ordinary buildings, asking them "Why doesn't your house look like this?" Other buildings must look a little drab in comparison.
posted by Kevin Street at 2:21 PM on September 9, 2011
I have, like, ten stories I want to ask you to tell and I can't decide which one I want first.
Oh tell the one about when you were at the grocery store and you kept changing checkout lines because it looked like you were in the longer one but you weren't.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:22 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Oh tell the one about when you were at the grocery store and you kept changing checkout lines because it looked like you were in the longer one but you weren't.
posted by shakespeherian at 2:22 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Anyone in NYC who is a fan of outsider art should go to the Living Museum on the grounds of Creedmoor Psychiatric Center. You have to call before you go, and it's quite a schlep, but it's amazing.
posted by Mavri at 2:36 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Mavri at 2:36 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sonascope's reply renews my desire to visit the AVAM. I wish my friends in Baltimore weren't so boring.
posted by codacorolla at 3:01 PM on September 9, 2011
posted by codacorolla at 3:01 PM on September 9, 2011
that crazy place off of I-80 just before you get into California
Do you mean Thunder Mountain? It's a good 150 miles from California, pretty far out in the weird empty center of Nevada, but definitely an example of outsider art.
posted by Mars Saxman at 3:13 PM on September 9, 2011
Do you mean Thunder Mountain? It's a good 150 miles from California, pretty far out in the weird empty center of Nevada, but definitely an example of outsider art.
posted by Mars Saxman at 3:13 PM on September 9, 2011
I wish my friends in Baltimore weren't so boring.
That may be the first time that sentence has ever been written.
posted by nathancaswell at 3:17 PM on September 9, 2011
That may be the first time that sentence has ever been written.
posted by nathancaswell at 3:17 PM on September 9, 2011
This guy is why I love living in cities. I dream of stumbling on something like this. The closest thing I've seen is some odd graffitti and the Eternity man.
This guy is also an Unknown Armies adept...
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:45 PM on September 9, 2011
This guy is also an Unknown Armies adept...
posted by Lovecraft In Brooklyn at 5:45 PM on September 9, 2011
I don't particularly fear earthquakes, probably because I grew up with them. But that building, holy fuck. That's the kind of bullshit I fear, rather than the quakes themselves.
This photo and this one, and this one too make me believe that Wood knew something about structures and construction. It may not have survived an earthquake, but there are a few "engineered" buildings out there that won't either. The building code will not save your building from collapse. It will however, give some detail-oriented, conventional-thinking bureaucrat a way to earn a healthy salary.
posted by kneecapped at 8:31 PM on September 9, 2011
This photo and this one, and this one too make me believe that Wood knew something about structures and construction. It may not have survived an earthquake, but there are a few "engineered" buildings out there that won't either. The building code will not save your building from collapse. It will however, give some detail-oriented, conventional-thinking bureaucrat a way to earn a healthy salary.
posted by kneecapped at 8:31 PM on September 9, 2011
oh wait you meant broken angel
never mind
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 9:01 PM on September 9, 2011
never mind
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 9:01 PM on September 9, 2011
The building looked insane and half finished, like rain from the west would pour right in and only a good stiff updraft would dry it out. Sun was paramount and proportion a sham. I was sad to hear it go because it was a wild thing tucked into a forgotten wrinkle of Brooklyn - seriously, until about 2000 that street and area was kind of wild fuckedup and forgotten - like the Lubavitcher's gaudy marriage halls next to the cardboardbox factory. If the building's land hadn't become so valuable no one would have continued to care until eventually... who knows. You chimp.
Sweet thing but fuck the real estate market for rushing it's demise, the DOB can be bought fer chrissake, the only thing lacking in saving it was some creepy/skeevy developer looking to barf up a brick pile that will collapse in a stiff breeze...
posted by From Bklyn at 9:24 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
Sweet thing but fuck the real estate market for rushing it's demise, the DOB can be bought fer chrissake, the only thing lacking in saving it was some creepy/skeevy developer looking to barf up a brick pile that will collapse in a stiff breeze...
posted by From Bklyn at 9:24 PM on September 9, 2011 [1 favorite]
I was just coming in to recommend AVAM when I saw sonascope's comment. While I haven't been involved in the same way, my wife and I are members. It's an amazing museum which embraces the term "outsider art" in a loving and respectful way.
codacorolla I think if you go to AVAM you'll have more interesting friends. Maybe we should have a meetup there?
posted by postel's law at 1:35 PM on September 10, 2011
codacorolla I think if you go to AVAM you'll have more interesting friends. Maybe we should have a meetup there?
posted by postel's law at 1:35 PM on September 10, 2011
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