"This country is at a critical crossroads"
September 13, 2011 2:09 PM Subscribe
Massive Evangelical movement spearheaded by right wing activist pastors to affect the 2012 election. There's 'a growing movement of evangelical pastors who are jumping into the electoral fray as never before, preaching political engagement from the pulpit as they mobilize for the 2012 election. This new activism has substantial muscle behind it: a cadre of experienced Christian organizers and some of the conservative movement's most generous donors, who are setting up technologically sophisticated operations to reach pastors and their congregations in battleground states.''"The Christian activist right is the largest, best-organized and, I believe, the most powerful force in American politics today," said Rob Stein, a Democratic strategist who recently provided briefings on the constituency to wealthy donors on the left. "No other political group comes even close."'
'The political engagement of evangelical pastors signals a reawakening of the conservative Christian activism that atrophied in the last decade. This time, organizers say it could be even more powerful, a reflection of the sharp backlash against the current administration.
Dismay about Obama's stances on gay rights and abortion — as well as anxiety about the growing national debt — has overcome the ambivalence of many pastors about speaking out.'Boosting the movement are veteran figures such as Ralph Reed, former head of the Christian Coalition. His new organization, Faith & Freedom Coalition, is developing a list of Christian voters in key states, a tool it used to reach thousands of voters in Wisconsin's recent recall elections.
New players are even more ambitious. United in Purpose, financed by an anonymous group of Silicon Valley venture capitalists, aims to register 5 million conservative Christians to vote. The organization boasts a sophisticated database that identifies millions of unregistered evangelical and born-again Christian voters around the country.
'The passion for politics stems from a collision of historic forces, including heightened local organizing around the issues of abortion and gay marriage and a view of the country's debt as a moral crisis that violates biblical instruction.'
'Jim Garlow of Skyline Church in La Mesa, Calif., rallied fellow pastors to push for the passage of Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage.
"This country is at a critical crossroads," said Garlow, who is now working with several national organizations to encourage their brand of biblically inspired political activism. "Pastors have to understand their unique role."'
In 2010, pastors in Iowa helped lead a successful campaign to force out three state Supreme Court justices who had ruled in favor of gay marriage.
"When I heard about the decision, there was an anger — a feeling of righteous anger that swept over me," said Pastor Kerry Jech of New Hope Christian Church in Marshalltown. "I have no hatred toward people who engage in a homosexual lifestyle. All that I know is that marriage — biblically and morally — is between a man and a woman."'
'As pastors speak out on political matters, they've drawn admonitions from groups such as Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which warns that such activism could jeopardize their churches' nonprofit status. But the religious leaders are bolstered by well-funded Christian legal organizations supporting their cause.
The most prominent — the Alliance Defense Fund, a group based in Scottsdale, Ariz., that spent $32 million in fiscal year 2010 — is challenging a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits pastors, as leaders of tax-exempt organizations, from supporting or opposing candidates from the pulpit. The group sponsors Pulpit Freedom Sunday, in which it offers free legal representation to churches whose pastors preach about political candidates and are then audited by the Internal Revenue Service. (So far, no IRS investigations have been triggered.)'
'The political engagement of evangelical pastors signals a reawakening of the conservative Christian activism that atrophied in the last decade. This time, organizers say it could be even more powerful, a reflection of the sharp backlash against the current administration.
Dismay about Obama's stances on gay rights and abortion — as well as anxiety about the growing national debt — has overcome the ambivalence of many pastors about speaking out.'Boosting the movement are veteran figures such as Ralph Reed, former head of the Christian Coalition. His new organization, Faith & Freedom Coalition, is developing a list of Christian voters in key states, a tool it used to reach thousands of voters in Wisconsin's recent recall elections.
New players are even more ambitious. United in Purpose, financed by an anonymous group of Silicon Valley venture capitalists, aims to register 5 million conservative Christians to vote. The organization boasts a sophisticated database that identifies millions of unregistered evangelical and born-again Christian voters around the country.
'The passion for politics stems from a collision of historic forces, including heightened local organizing around the issues of abortion and gay marriage and a view of the country's debt as a moral crisis that violates biblical instruction.'
'Jim Garlow of Skyline Church in La Mesa, Calif., rallied fellow pastors to push for the passage of Proposition 8, which banned same-sex marriage.
"This country is at a critical crossroads," said Garlow, who is now working with several national organizations to encourage their brand of biblically inspired political activism. "Pastors have to understand their unique role."'
In 2010, pastors in Iowa helped lead a successful campaign to force out three state Supreme Court justices who had ruled in favor of gay marriage.
"When I heard about the decision, there was an anger — a feeling of righteous anger that swept over me," said Pastor Kerry Jech of New Hope Christian Church in Marshalltown. "I have no hatred toward people who engage in a homosexual lifestyle. All that I know is that marriage — biblically and morally — is between a man and a woman."'
'As pastors speak out on political matters, they've drawn admonitions from groups such as Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which warns that such activism could jeopardize their churches' nonprofit status. But the religious leaders are bolstered by well-funded Christian legal organizations supporting their cause.
The most prominent — the Alliance Defense Fund, a group based in Scottsdale, Ariz., that spent $32 million in fiscal year 2010 — is challenging a 1954 tax code amendment that prohibits pastors, as leaders of tax-exempt organizations, from supporting or opposing candidates from the pulpit. The group sponsors Pulpit Freedom Sunday, in which it offers free legal representation to churches whose pastors preach about political candidates and are then audited by the Internal Revenue Service. (So far, no IRS investigations have been triggered.)'
This was also one of the major themes of Jesus Camp, for the four people left out there who haven't seen it yet.
posted by phunniemee at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by phunniemee at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2011
Fucking great.
posted by darkstar at 2:16 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by darkstar at 2:16 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well, at least they're loaded with cash, don't pay taxes, AND get to directly involve themselves in the political process. That's JESUSOCRACY.
posted by absalom at 2:17 PM on September 13, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by absalom at 2:17 PM on September 13, 2011 [12 favorites]
IE: How the fuck is this legal, beyond - I guess - the optics of going after Churches for tax evasion?
posted by absalom at 2:17 PM on September 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by absalom at 2:17 PM on September 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
"Christ for President" mentions none of this.
I believe "Christ for President."
posted by entropone at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
I believe "Christ for President."
posted by entropone at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
Man, how great would this news be if these churches practiced Christianity in a method even somewhat resembling that which Jesus taught?
posted by entropicamericana at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [31 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [31 favorites]
Any evidence for the "as never before" bit? This is one of the big stories of American politics starting in the '60s or '70s. There's an election coming up, so I expect electioneering to pick up. But is the Christian Right more important than before? Or is this just a bit of predictable alarmism that helps whip everyone up for another season of the great game?
posted by grobstein at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by grobstein at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
I hope all of these churches have their 501(c) status scrutinised very carefully.
posted by Talez at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by Talez at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2011 [11 favorites]
The pastor interviewed at the beginning of the article has a blog, where he recently asked the very important and pressing question: "Can a Christian Vote For A Woman For President?"
posted by Lutoslawski at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Lutoslawski at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
...as well as anxiety about the growing national debt...
Their problem is that they falsely think that money is going towards helping people feed themselves (to which Christians are religiously opposed) rather than killing brown people and enriching defense contractors.
posted by goethean at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2011 [9 favorites]
Their problem is that they falsely think that money is going towards helping people feed themselves (to which Christians are religiously opposed) rather than killing brown people and enriching defense contractors.
posted by goethean at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2011 [9 favorites]
In our lifetimes American intellectuals will flee the U.S. as a failed state. In fact that may already be happening. The optimism around Obama's election delayed the inevitable by a few years, but not forever.
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:21 PM on September 13, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by 2bucksplus at 2:21 PM on September 13, 2011 [13 favorites]
Man, how great would this news be if these churches practiced Christianity in a method even somewhat resembling that which Jesus taught?
Jesus was a socialist. Worse than Obama, even. GIT ME MAH SIGN!
posted by phunniemee at 2:21 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Jesus was a socialist. Worse than Obama, even. GIT ME MAH SIGN!
posted by phunniemee at 2:21 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Lazarus didn't have health insurance; he should have stayed dead. Fucking socialism.
posted by Threeway Handshake at 2:23 PM on September 13, 2011 [26 favorites]
posted by Threeway Handshake at 2:23 PM on September 13, 2011 [26 favorites]
Well, I'll be fleeing Arizona as a failed state as soon as my employment/family situation permits, that's for damn sure. This place is full of these so-called "Christians" who go to church on Sunday and give lip service to Jesus' teachings, but then proudly cheer for executions, torture and letting sick people die if it satisfies their tribal bloodlust.
posted by darkstar at 2:25 PM on September 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 2:25 PM on September 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
In our lifetimes American intellectuals will flee the U.S. as a failed state.
Pfft.
It's expensive to move out of the country. Or are you only talking about the wealthy intellectuals?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:25 PM on September 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
Pfft.
It's expensive to move out of the country. Or are you only talking about the wealthy intellectuals?
posted by Thorzdad at 2:25 PM on September 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
IE: How the fuck is this legal, beyond - I guess - the optics of going after Churches for tax evasion?
There's a fine line at play here.
There's a fine line at play here.
"Outside of express endorsement of or opposition to candidates for political offices, pastors and churches may engage in many other permissible activities. Churches may host voter registration drives, be a host site for balloting, or host a forum where candidates address the congregation or answer questions from a moderator. Candidates visiting the church may be introduced, and political candidates may even preach in the pulpit so long as the pulpit is not used as a political forum to urge the members to vote in favor of the candidate. Churches may also distribute objective voter guides that address the candidates' views on a broad range of issues.posted by ericb at 2:26 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
Pastors can preach on biblical, moral and social issues such as homosexuality and abortion. Pastors can urge the congregation to become involved in the political process, urge them to register and vote. Pastors can acknowledge visiting candidates. Pastors can personally endorse or oppose political candidates, personally work for political candidates, and personally contribute to them. Also, a pastor's name may appear in a published ad or letter signifying the pastor's endorsement of the candidate, and the pastor's title and affiliation with the church can also be listed with the notation, 'Title and affiliation for identification purposes.'
... [T]he IRS states that a pastor may not personally endorse a candidate while in the pulpit ... No pastor has ever been targeted by the IRS for giving a personal endorsement from the pulpit.
... It should also be remembered that the restriction on endorsing candidates does not apply to appointed offices. Cabinet or judicial appointments are not political candidates for public office. Therefore, pastors and churches may expressly oppose or support individuals for appointed office."
time to tax those fuckers
posted by HyperBlue at 2:26 PM on September 13, 2011 [13 favorites]
posted by HyperBlue at 2:26 PM on September 13, 2011 [13 favorites]
One hopes that should the Christian Taliban take power in the US there would be a backlash, and those candidates that support this crap will lose.
Not betting on it, I think most US voters are so apathetic that the squeaky wingnut wheel gets the grease (and the political office)
posted by xetere at 2:29 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not betting on it, I think most US voters are so apathetic that the squeaky wingnut wheel gets the grease (and the political office)
posted by xetere at 2:29 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
IRS: Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organizations [PDF].
posted by ericb at 2:29 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 2:29 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Isn't it interesting that in these same battleground states, the GOP has been making it harder and harder to register, you know, black voters - to the point where some voter registration groups have given up.
Believe me, I'd flee this stupid, selfish, proudly ignorant, self-righteous country if I could possibly get citizenship anywhere else given my qualifications and lack of wealth. Rural Canada would be okay at this point.
posted by Frowner at 2:30 PM on September 13, 2011 [12 favorites]
Believe me, I'd flee this stupid, selfish, proudly ignorant, self-righteous country if I could possibly get citizenship anywhere else given my qualifications and lack of wealth. Rural Canada would be okay at this point.
posted by Frowner at 2:30 PM on September 13, 2011 [12 favorites]
It's a shame that it'd be political suicide to suggest that this type of church doesn't qualify for tax exempt status.
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by thsmchnekllsfascists at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2011
In related news ...
The New Civil Rights Movement || September 13, 2011: Prop 8 Lawyers Push To Remove IRS Rules Prohibiting Churches From Campaigning.
posted by ericb at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
The New Civil Rights Movement || September 13, 2011: Prop 8 Lawyers Push To Remove IRS Rules Prohibiting Churches From Campaigning.
posted by ericb at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Grar, grar, et cetera.
posted by curious nu at 2:34 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by curious nu at 2:34 PM on September 13, 2011
why the hell do churches get tax breaks
seriously
posted by LogicalDash at 2:35 PM on September 13, 2011
seriously
posted by LogicalDash at 2:35 PM on September 13, 2011
We should tax churches regardless of whether they strictly "endorse candidates from the pulpit". Even Jesus fucking rendered unto Caesar.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:36 PM on September 13, 2011 [12 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:36 PM on September 13, 2011 [12 favorites]
Or is this just a bit of predictable alarmism that helps whip everyone up for another season of the great game?
Well I don't know but here's a couple of outfits, both in Pennsylvania, that grind out media pushing Christian political agendas. The first seems to organize front groups, the second is more geared to campaigns for public office.
posted by tommyD at 2:37 PM on September 13, 2011
Well I don't know but here's a couple of outfits, both in Pennsylvania, that grind out media pushing Christian political agendas. The first seems to organize front groups, the second is more geared to campaigns for public office.
posted by tommyD at 2:37 PM on September 13, 2011
Forbes || September 9, 2011: Don't Like Taxes? Form A Church.
posted by ericb at 2:38 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by ericb at 2:38 PM on September 13, 2011
I'm looking forward to paying off the national debt with the tax revenues from formerly tax exempt right wing asshole churches across the U.S.A.
posted by edheil at 2:43 PM on September 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by edheil at 2:43 PM on September 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
"There is a concerted assault on everything that we consider sacred — and we pastors need to move to the forefront of the battle,"
This is a tired old saw. When I was a kid heavy metal was evil. Devil worship and satanic rituals were rampant(turned out to be false) D&D is evil. Now Harry Potter is the new bogeyman. Socialism is worse than heavy metal. Pokemon is luring our kids to the devil. Why do people think the past is so much better?
Wake up evangelicals! The secular world will always be at odds to your beliefs. Get over it and embrace your victim-hood.
posted by hot_monster at 2:47 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
This is a tired old saw. When I was a kid heavy metal was evil. Devil worship and satanic rituals were rampant(turned out to be false) D&D is evil. Now Harry Potter is the new bogeyman. Socialism is worse than heavy metal. Pokemon is luring our kids to the devil. Why do people think the past is so much better?
Wake up evangelicals! The secular world will always be at odds to your beliefs. Get over it and embrace your victim-hood.
posted by hot_monster at 2:47 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
IE: How the fuck is this legal, beyond - I guess - the optics of going after Churches for tax evasion?
I read recently that in effect the war crimes committed by Bush, Cheney and Co. were legal because they won't be prosecuted for them. Same thing here, it's legal because the government won't uphold the law.
posted by sineater at 2:48 PM on September 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
I read recently that in effect the war crimes committed by Bush, Cheney and Co. were legal because they won't be prosecuted for them. Same thing here, it's legal because the government won't uphold the law.
posted by sineater at 2:48 PM on September 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
Or is this just a bit of predictable alarmism that helps whip everyone up for another season of the great game?
Evangelicals have the advantage of being able to take numerous different political issues - abortion, gay marriage, teaching creationism - and pull them all together under the singular tent of Christian America. I'd be very reluctant to discount the evangelical right as a group to be ignored.
And yes, churches are definitely overstepping some tax laws. Now imagine Obama sicking the IRS on a bunch of evangelical churches. If it's going to happen, it won't be before November 2012.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:51 PM on September 13, 2011
Evangelicals have the advantage of being able to take numerous different political issues - abortion, gay marriage, teaching creationism - and pull them all together under the singular tent of Christian America. I'd be very reluctant to discount the evangelical right as a group to be ignored.
And yes, churches are definitely overstepping some tax laws. Now imagine Obama sicking the IRS on a bunch of evangelical churches. If it's going to happen, it won't be before November 2012.
posted by Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at 2:51 PM on September 13, 2011
"This country is at a critical crossroads," said Garlow, who is now working with several national organizations to encourage their brand of biblically inspired political activism.
In the last few months, I've moved from depressed and occasionally despairing over US politics to genuinely afraid.
It does feel like we're on the edge of a precipice, and I'm increasingly worried that there will be no place in the country where we will be safe from these lunatics.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:52 PM on September 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
In the last few months, I've moved from depressed and occasionally despairing over US politics to genuinely afraid.
It does feel like we're on the edge of a precipice, and I'm increasingly worried that there will be no place in the country where we will be safe from these lunatics.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:52 PM on September 13, 2011 [10 favorites]
Yup, I'm afraid too. Sometimes it seems like there is nothing that will keep us from going down a very bad road.
SWF in American South seeks SM with EU passport. MeMail pointystick...
posted by pointystick at 2:56 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
SWF in American South seeks SM with EU passport. MeMail pointystick...
posted by pointystick at 2:56 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Most Socialists are content to point out that once Socialism has been established we shall be happier in a material sense, and to assume that all problems lapse when one’s belly is full. The truth is the opposite: when one’s belly is empty, one’s only problem is an empty belly. It is when we have got away from drudgery and exploitation that we shall really start wondering about man’s destiny and the reason for his existence. One cannot have any worthwhile picture of the future unless one realises how much we have lost by the decay of Christianity.--"As I please" / George Orwell. In Tribune, 3 March 1944.posted by No Robots at 2:58 PM on September 13, 2011
Threeway Handshake: "Lazarus didn't have health insurance; he should have stayed dead. Fucking socialism."
He was resurrected out of charity. Magic charity.
posted by brundlefly at 2:59 PM on September 13, 2011
He was resurrected out of charity. Magic charity.
posted by brundlefly at 2:59 PM on September 13, 2011
All we need to do is secretly send up a satellite equipped with huge speakers and that will instantly play an audio stream sent from an undisclosed location on Earth. Come election day, have someone with an authoritative male voice deliver a message from God telling his followers to stay away from the polls.
posted by perhapses at 3:00 PM on September 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by perhapses at 3:00 PM on September 13, 2011 [3 favorites]
After that we could pop a massive JiffyPop in their churches using an airborne laser!
posted by brundlefly at 3:03 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by brundlefly at 3:03 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
Good gravy. Some version of this story comes out at every single election. I have whiplash from the deja vu. I'm just surprised to see that, this year, it's not wearing the predictable Dominionist hat.
Given that no one in the media understands or can agree upon a single definition for 'evangelical', it's a convenient boogeyman.
It's been sexy for a good 20 years to fear conservative Christians, in the wider culture. They're just people. They go to church, they pray, they gossip, they make bundt cakes, whatever. They live their lives. But it's the comparatively minuscule subset who choose to be politically active -- and who might have money and connections -- that get all the attention.
You know, just like radical Muslims.
posted by gsh at 3:09 PM on September 13, 2011 [4 favorites]
Given that no one in the media understands or can agree upon a single definition for 'evangelical', it's a convenient boogeyman.
It's been sexy for a good 20 years to fear conservative Christians, in the wider culture. They're just people. They go to church, they pray, they gossip, they make bundt cakes, whatever. They live their lives. But it's the comparatively minuscule subset who choose to be politically active -- and who might have money and connections -- that get all the attention.
You know, just like radical Muslims.
posted by gsh at 3:09 PM on September 13, 2011 [4 favorites]
List of documented evangelical Christian scandals.
posted by darkstar at 3:09 PM on September 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by darkstar at 3:09 PM on September 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
All we need to do is secretly send up a satellite equipped with huge speakers and that will instantly play an audio stream sent from an undisclosed location on Earth. Come election day, have someone with an authoritative male voice deliver a message from God telling his followers to stay away from the polls.
...And then we drop that giant satellite on Texas?
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:11 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
...And then we drop that giant satellite on Texas?
posted by 2bucksplus at 3:11 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
The pastor interviewed at the beginning of the article has a blog, where he recently asked the very important and pressing question: "Can a Christian Vote For A Woman For President?"
I like how the answer, while "yes," still leaves no doubt as to wishy-washy, weak-willed women being a poor second to great big manly men with hairy chests and Adam's Apples and striped penises which roll out like the inflating hammers from the climax of Beetlejuice.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:14 PM on September 13, 2011 [9 favorites]
I like how the answer, while "yes," still leaves no doubt as to wishy-washy, weak-willed women being a poor second to great big manly men with hairy chests and Adam's Apples and striped penises which roll out like the inflating hammers from the climax of Beetlejuice.
posted by Sticherbeast at 3:14 PM on September 13, 2011 [9 favorites]
After that we could pop a massive JiffyPop in their churches using an airborne laser!
I know the guy who played the part of the pilot who shot that laser. He might still be available.
posted by perhapses at 3:17 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
I know the guy who played the part of the pilot who shot that laser. He might still be available.
posted by perhapses at 3:17 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
I hope they win, every, fucking one of them. I hope they enact all the laws they want. I hope they legislate death to the poor, throwing children into the river in sacks with rocks (they're useless without education, eh? And, besides, they can just screw and make more.). I hope they eat the environment for breakfast and shit toxins at lunch. I hope they direct all the hot air they spew into the arctic and melt the ice cap, I hope they scrub the world clean of every sect, religion, belief, and acknowledgement of faith that doesn't include the unholy trinity and their white skinned, blue eyed spawn.
I hope they win, and propagate amongst themselves, becoming whiter, dumber, until they are nothing more than drooling piles of bleached skin and blond hair, inhaling with the greed of a protein black hole, until they eventually eat their own children because they don't know any better, and then, as a last act of self destruction, swallow their tales like the snakes they are and disappear..leaving the earth a clean, barren, burnt shell...
and then, somewhere, a cell will divide again and again... perhaps that cell will have learned something and will do better this next time around.
But, personally, I doubt they will have learned anything at all....
other than that, I really don't have an opinion on this.
posted by tomswift at 3:18 PM on September 13, 2011 [16 favorites]
I hope they win, and propagate amongst themselves, becoming whiter, dumber, until they are nothing more than drooling piles of bleached skin and blond hair, inhaling with the greed of a protein black hole, until they eventually eat their own children because they don't know any better, and then, as a last act of self destruction, swallow their tales like the snakes they are and disappear..leaving the earth a clean, barren, burnt shell...
and then, somewhere, a cell will divide again and again... perhaps that cell will have learned something and will do better this next time around.
But, personally, I doubt they will have learned anything at all....
other than that, I really don't have an opinion on this.
posted by tomswift at 3:18 PM on September 13, 2011 [16 favorites]
SWF in American South seeks SM with EU passport. MeMail pointystick...
You know, if you've got a Southern accent too, we should probably talk...
Wasn't there a rash of articles fairly recently explaining how the Religious Right was a spent force politically? I'm pretty sure you guys are being headless-chickened here.
posted by Leon at 3:31 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
You know, if you've got a Southern accent too, we should probably talk...
Wasn't there a rash of articles fairly recently explaining how the Religious Right was a spent force politically? I'm pretty sure you guys are being headless-chickened here.
posted by Leon at 3:31 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
Jesus wept.
Seriously guys, stop doing this kind of shit in his name, you're making Jesus cry.
posted by quin at 3:36 PM on September 13, 2011
Seriously guys, stop doing this kind of shit in his name, you're making Jesus cry.
posted by quin at 3:36 PM on September 13, 2011
Given that no one in the media understands or can agree upon a single definition for 'evangelical'
I don't get this impression at all. I think the part which may be confusing to those who aren't familiar with the evangelical movement is that there's no centralized authority (unlike, say the Catholic church or even denominational protestant churches like Lutherans or Presbyterians). There's no litmus test for being an evangelical pastor.
Good gravy. Some version of this story comes out at every single election.
Maybe that's because, every single election, it continues to be true.
posted by muddgirl at 3:39 PM on September 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
I don't get this impression at all. I think the part which may be confusing to those who aren't familiar with the evangelical movement is that there's no centralized authority (unlike, say the Catholic church or even denominational protestant churches like Lutherans or Presbyterians). There's no litmus test for being an evangelical pastor.
Good gravy. Some version of this story comes out at every single election.
Maybe that's because, every single election, it continues to be true.
posted by muddgirl at 3:39 PM on September 13, 2011 [8 favorites]
Always remember that they only win because they're organized and motivated. They're still a fucking annoying minority. If the majority of reasonable middle of the road folks got out and voted we wouldn't have to concern ourselves with this type of BS.
So while they really piss me off, they are free to exercise their own free speech, rights to assemble and vote. If they win is only because the rest of us let them through apathy.
Also, I think this article is mostly a scare story to try and shake some of that apathy - is it working?
posted by Long Way To Go at 3:40 PM on September 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
So while they really piss me off, they are free to exercise their own free speech, rights to assemble and vote. If they win is only because the rest of us let them through apathy.
Also, I think this article is mostly a scare story to try and shake some of that apathy - is it working?
posted by Long Way To Go at 3:40 PM on September 13, 2011 [5 favorites]
Wasn't there a rash of articles fairly recently explaining how the Religious Right was a spent force politically?
The right is clearly not a spent force in the US, and the days of clownish, comparatively disorganized Moral Majority buffoonery are over. Groups like United in Purpose are funded and deployed by elites that are ultimately nihilistic, but increasingly adept at using evangelicals politically.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:41 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
The right is clearly not a spent force in the US, and the days of clownish, comparatively disorganized Moral Majority buffoonery are over. Groups like United in Purpose are funded and deployed by elites that are ultimately nihilistic, but increasingly adept at using evangelicals politically.
posted by ryanshepard at 3:41 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Pretty sure the Roberts Supreme Court is champing at the bit to get their hands on a case where the IRS tried to remove tax exempt status from one of these churches. Churches are people.
posted by one_bean at 3:46 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by one_bean at 3:46 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
There's a civil society gap here that nobody's talking about. Churches are among the last big local organizations in America. Gone are the bowling leagues, gone the friendly neighborhood progressive fora that might have fostered political action as a by-product to socializing.
Every week, they hang out with each other. They babysit each others kids, they organize spaghetti dinners and rummage sales, and they all go vote in November (most of them go vote in the Spring, too). This is why they're able to elect insane school boards, and take over all the damn state legislatures.
posted by The White Hat at 3:47 PM on September 13, 2011 [11 favorites]
Every week, they hang out with each other. They babysit each others kids, they organize spaghetti dinners and rummage sales, and they all go vote in November (most of them go vote in the Spring, too). This is why they're able to elect insane school boards, and take over all the damn state legislatures.
posted by The White Hat at 3:47 PM on September 13, 2011 [11 favorites]
Were I an American parent, I'd be encouraging my kids to GTFO of the country ASAP. There is no good future in store for them in America.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:11 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by five fresh fish at 4:11 PM on September 13, 2011
Were I an American parent, I'd be encouraging my kids to GTFO of the country ASAP. There is no good future in store for them in America.
I am one of those kids. I'm in my mid-20s, and finishing up medical school. I love and read Metafilter on a daily basis, and am also continually horrified by the actions of my leaders, my forefathers and our politicians. I believe that we are heading down a road of misery and hatred, fueled by greed and omnipresent religious motives.
I want to run. I want to move to the EU, Canada, or any other supposed first-world democracy that gives a shit about its citizens. I want to move to a country that gives the tiniest fucking flying shit about its homeless, its minorities, its sick and its poor.
But I can't. I cannot abandon the country that gave my grandparents a home from a dying, corrupt country, that gave my parents a chance to meet and to live and love successfully, and which gave me opportunity, and the ability to be rewarded for my hard work, not my last name or the color of my skin.
The future is hard, shitty and looking worse everyday. I cannot abandon this company because I am not a coward. I have to fight the religious right, the GOP, and the corporate masters who stoke them. Despite the monumental debt I'm definitely going to have coming out of medical school, I definitely want to If I have children in the future, I'd tell them to fight. And if push comes to shove, and we're up against the wall...
When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
posted by kurosawa's pal at 4:22 PM on September 13, 2011 [9 favorites]
I am one of those kids. I'm in my mid-20s, and finishing up medical school. I love and read Metafilter on a daily basis, and am also continually horrified by the actions of my leaders, my forefathers and our politicians. I believe that we are heading down a road of misery and hatred, fueled by greed and omnipresent religious motives.
I want to run. I want to move to the EU, Canada, or any other supposed first-world democracy that gives a shit about its citizens. I want to move to a country that gives the tiniest fucking flying shit about its homeless, its minorities, its sick and its poor.
But I can't. I cannot abandon the country that gave my grandparents a home from a dying, corrupt country, that gave my parents a chance to meet and to live and love successfully, and which gave me opportunity, and the ability to be rewarded for my hard work, not my last name or the color of my skin.
The future is hard, shitty and looking worse everyday. I cannot abandon this company because I am not a coward. I have to fight the religious right, the GOP, and the corporate masters who stoke them. Despite the monumental debt I'm definitely going to have coming out of medical school, I definitely want to If I have children in the future, I'd tell them to fight. And if push comes to shove, and we're up against the wall...
When they kick out your front door
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head
Or on the trigger of your gun
posted by kurosawa's pal at 4:22 PM on September 13, 2011 [9 favorites]
I seem to remember a documentary about "Freedom" buses that were making the church rounds during the Bush campaign. They parked in the parking lot by invitation and inside church goers, urged on their pastors, were shown stirring, emotional videos about how Bush was a godfearing, Patriotic American and the other guy was a commie atheist who would eat America's soul. I don't know how much they contributed to Bush's reelection, but they kept the actual campaigning out of the church itself.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 4:24 PM on September 13, 2011
Christian leaders will continue to organize to influence government, because their position will soon be lost due to public disinterest. They may even hope to get the government to force people to attend, or at least pay for the church to continue to exist as empty.
Yes, it's a debate on how many Americans actually attend church each week (estimates range from 22 to 41 percent). And nothing in the attendance statistics explains people's waning devotion to it anyway. But we know this: The most dedicated churchgoers, according to the Gallup organization, are conservatives, non-hispanic blacks, and Republicans. Those least likely to attend church at least once a week or almost every week are liberals, Asians, and those aged 18 to 29 years.
If I were a preacher I would be writing my congressmen about my job problem too.
posted by Brian B. at 4:28 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yes, it's a debate on how many Americans actually attend church each week (estimates range from 22 to 41 percent). And nothing in the attendance statistics explains people's waning devotion to it anyway. But we know this: The most dedicated churchgoers, according to the Gallup organization, are conservatives, non-hispanic blacks, and Republicans. Those least likely to attend church at least once a week or almost every week are liberals, Asians, and those aged 18 to 29 years.
If I were a preacher I would be writing my congressmen about my job problem too.
posted by Brian B. at 4:28 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
SWF in American South seeks SM with EU passport. MeMail pointystick...
My wife married me and I have an AU passport. So we have somewhere to go if/when the batshit insanity starts.
posted by Talez at 4:28 PM on September 13, 2011
My wife married me and I have an AU passport. So we have somewhere to go if/when the batshit insanity starts.
posted by Talez at 4:28 PM on September 13, 2011
It will all be okay.
posted by glaucon at 4:38 PM on September 13, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by glaucon at 4:38 PM on September 13, 2011 [6 favorites]
"This is the congregational version of the 'tea party,'" says Richard Land, president of the conservative Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission. "Pastors who in the past would dodge my calls are calling me saying, 'How can we be involved?' "
What I Learned in Two Years at the Tea Party
The Tea Party Folks Are Mostly Just Christian Soldiers
posted by homunculus at 4:51 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
What I Learned in Two Years at the Tea Party
The Tea Party Folks Are Mostly Just Christian Soldiers
posted by homunculus at 4:51 PM on September 13, 2011 [2 favorites]
Democrats cannot afford to pursue Evangelical churches for political activism in support of Republican candidates, because any precedent they establish in so doing would be enforced against African American churches' political activism in support of Democrats. That trade-off would hardly be favorable to the chances of Democratic candidates.
posted by MattD at 5:30 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by MattD at 5:30 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
That trade-off would hardly be favorable to the chances of Democratic candidates.
There are more African American evangelicals voting Democratic, than there are all evangelicals (of any color) voting Republican? News to me. In other words, if you took evangelicals out of the equation, you'd have a net voting gain for the Republicans? Riiight.
posted by VikingSword at 5:33 PM on September 13, 2011
There are more African American evangelicals voting Democratic, than there are all evangelicals (of any color) voting Republican? News to me. In other words, if you took evangelicals out of the equation, you'd have a net voting gain for the Republicans? Riiight.
posted by VikingSword at 5:33 PM on September 13, 2011
I am thinking of a comment on MetaFilter a while back describing Jesus standing on a mountain in the desert while Satan tempts him to take control of the temporal world.
posted by ovvl at 5:54 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by ovvl at 5:54 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have a Southern accent. And I can cook!
Seriously, I thought the religious right was done. Then came the Tea Party which is scarier. UGH.
posted by pointystick at 6:49 PM on September 13, 2011
Seriously, I thought the religious right was done. Then came the Tea Party which is scarier. UGH.
posted by pointystick at 6:49 PM on September 13, 2011
Render unto Caesar has become Rend Caesar. Or worse yet, Rent Caesar.
posted by joe lisboa at 7:15 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by joe lisboa at 7:15 PM on September 13, 2011
Good. I'm a moderate myself, and disagree with some of their methods and ideas, but all in all, I hope they have a powerful influence and effect. God bless America. That is all.
posted by Seekerofsplendor at 8:29 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by Seekerofsplendor at 8:29 PM on September 13, 2011
Even though they work directly against my personal best interests, politically involved Evangelicals don't frighten me. But combine them with the whole New Apostolic Reformation "annointed to be elected" bullshit which accompanies Perry and Bachmann, and it's just too creepy for words.
posted by hippybear at 8:38 PM on September 13, 2011
posted by hippybear at 8:38 PM on September 13, 2011
" I hope they have a powerful influence and effect."
Please tell us more. Exactly how would they have this effect, and to what end would they wield their influence?
posted by sneebler at 8:39 PM on September 13, 2011
Please tell us more. Exactly how would they have this effect, and to what end would they wield their influence?
posted by sneebler at 8:39 PM on September 13, 2011
Massive Evangelical movement spearheaded by right wing activist pastors to affect the 1996 1998 2000 2002 2004 2006 2008 2012 election.
posted by mkultra at 9:01 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by mkultra at 9:01 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
>I want to run…<
I can’t decide, it’s sounds like a good idea to stay and fight, but I never think that people were bad for getting out of (insert bad country/government here) before the downfall.
But I don’t have much of a choice. It’s not easy to move, and where do you go? Seriously, where does everyone think are the best places to go?
posted by bongo_x at 10:04 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
I can’t decide, it’s sounds like a good idea to stay and fight, but I never think that people were bad for getting out of (insert bad country/government here) before the downfall.
But I don’t have much of a choice. It’s not easy to move, and where do you go? Seriously, where does everyone think are the best places to go?
posted by bongo_x at 10:04 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
When they kick out your front door
Please don't quote The Clash. I love The Clash, but for Christ's sake, don't make some tossed-off lyrics by Paul Simonon your mantra. Not to mention they clash quite clearly with the Hippocratic Oath you'll be taking in whatever grass-is-greener place you never run off to.
God save me from Christians and twenty-somethings. Christ, there must be twenty-something Christians out there. This is why I never leave the house.
posted by yerfatma at 6:33 AM on September 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Please don't quote The Clash. I love The Clash, but for Christ's sake, don't make some tossed-off lyrics by Paul Simonon your mantra. Not to mention they clash quite clearly with the Hippocratic Oath you'll be taking in whatever grass-is-greener place you never run off to.
God save me from Christians and twenty-somethings. Christ, there must be twenty-something Christians out there. This is why I never leave the house.
posted by yerfatma at 6:33 AM on September 14, 2011 [1 favorite]
Politics + religion = dangerous.
posted by estherhaza at 7:29 AM on September 14, 2011
posted by estherhaza at 7:29 AM on September 14, 2011
Oh Lord, please hasten the Rapture, so that we might be left behind to live our lives as we wish. Srsly, hoover them the eff out of here.
posted by wowbobwow at 1:39 PM on September 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by wowbobwow at 1:39 PM on September 14, 2011 [2 favorites]
Rick Perry, Supernatural Events, and Freedom in Texas
posted by homunculus at 1:28 PM on September 15, 2011
posted by homunculus at 1:28 PM on September 15, 2011
That was vapid.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:20 AM on September 16, 2011
posted by five fresh fish at 12:20 AM on September 16, 2011
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posted by DU at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2011 [1 favorite]