ioerror
October 11, 2011 2:10 AM Subscribe
The google and sonic.net emails of Tor developer Jacob Appelbaum (ioerror) have been obtained by the DoJ using a secret court order, which both companies sought to unseal and sonic actually fought in court. Sonic's CEO Dane Jasper said that challenging the order was "rather expensive, but we felt it was the right thing to do." Appelbaum has repeatedly been harassed by boarder agents when entering the U.S. and his twitter account was subpoenaed
Appelbaum recently tweeted that “State Terrorism of our individual lives is the most relevant Terrorism to everyday Americans. We must resist it at every opportunity.” and that riseup.net needs developers.
Appelbaum recently tweeted that “State Terrorism of our individual lives is the most relevant Terrorism to everyday Americans. We must resist it at every opportunity.” and that riseup.net needs developers.
I need to switch back to Sonic from AT&T. AT&T runs specials on DSL for a slightly lower price, but the service at Sonic is light years better. And they're just good people.
posted by ericales at 2:33 AM on October 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ericales at 2:33 AM on October 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
The only threat this man represents is that he is educated in cryptography.
Is it fascism yet?
posted by CautionToTheWind at 2:39 AM on October 11, 2011 [13 favorites]
Is it fascism yet?
posted by CautionToTheWind at 2:39 AM on October 11, 2011 [13 favorites]
Just fyi, a tweet claimed sonic reduced their IP logs to two weeks vs. AT&T's what? seven years? Anyone feel like pricing that reduced risk of being dragged into court over something dumb?
posted by jeffburdges at 2:40 AM on October 11, 2011
posted by jeffburdges at 2:40 AM on October 11, 2011
Considering that the US government will now, based purely on secret evidence and without judicial oversight of any kind, issue death warrants for people it defines as 'bad', spending the time to understand these technologies may be a wise investment.
posted by Malor at 3:19 AM on October 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
posted by Malor at 3:19 AM on October 11, 2011 [9 favorites]
Mod note: Some comments deleted; let's leave "The Wire" out of it, and forego predictions on site reaction.
posted by taz (staff) at 3:30 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by taz (staff) at 3:30 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
it's yet another example of the erosion of civil rights.
No actually. It seems to be an application of existing law onto a new medium.
"On Jan. 26, attorneys for Mr. Appelbaum, Mr. Gonggrijp and Ms. Jonsdottir jointly filed a motion to vacate the court order. They argued, among other things, that because IP addresses can be used to locate a person in "specific geographic destinations," it constituted a search under the Fourth Amendment and thus required a warrant.
The government argued that IP addresses don't reveal precise location and are more akin to phone numbers. At a Feb. 15 hearing, Assistant U.S. Attorney John S. Davis said, "this is a standard… investigative measure that is used in criminal investigations every day of the year all over this country."
On March 11, U.S. Magistrate Judge Theresa Carroll Buchanan denied the WikiLeaks supporters' motion."
The analogy between phone number and IP address appears to be a reasonable one. Whilst an IP address can reveal an exact geographic location, if you are connected wirelessly or via a proxy (by analogy on a cell phone, or using call forwarding) the IP address (phone number) by itself reveals nothing about the location of your person. That is, in fact, one of the services (geographic anonymity) that Mr. Appelbaum offered his customers so it is odd to see his attorneys saying that using the internet must reveal a person't specific location.
posted by three blind mice at 3:31 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
No actually. It seems to be an application of existing law onto a new medium.
"On Jan. 26, attorneys for Mr. Appelbaum, Mr. Gonggrijp and Ms. Jonsdottir jointly filed a motion to vacate the court order. They argued, among other things, that because IP addresses can be used to locate a person in "specific geographic destinations," it constituted a search under the Fourth Amendment and thus required a warrant.
The government argued that IP addresses don't reveal precise location and are more akin to phone numbers. At a Feb. 15 hearing, Assistant U.S. Attorney John S. Davis said, "this is a standard… investigative measure that is used in criminal investigations every day of the year all over this country."
On March 11, U.S. Magistrate Judge Theresa Carroll Buchanan denied the WikiLeaks supporters' motion."
The analogy between phone number and IP address appears to be a reasonable one. Whilst an IP address can reveal an exact geographic location, if you are connected wirelessly or via a proxy (by analogy on a cell phone, or using call forwarding) the IP address (phone number) by itself reveals nothing about the location of your person. That is, in fact, one of the services (geographic anonymity) that Mr. Appelbaum offered his customers so it is odd to see his attorneys saying that using the internet must reveal a person't specific location.
posted by three blind mice at 3:31 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
the IP address (phone number) by itself reveals nothing about the location of your person I presume you have heard of triangulation.
The argument here is
A/. that the law being applied is older than the technology it is trying to control and
B/. that the demand for information is being done clandestinely with the secret court order called a 2703(d) It's not as privacy-protective as a traditional search warrant, and some courts have ruled that such orders are unconstitutional when used to read a suspect's e-mail. Appelbaum has not been charged with a crime. However I am not a USlyer. I just find it interesting and terrifying just how far the US powers that be will go to curtail liberty and freedom of speech.
posted by adamvasco at 4:09 AM on October 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
The argument here is
A/. that the law being applied is older than the technology it is trying to control and
B/. that the demand for information is being done clandestinely with the secret court order called a 2703(d) It's not as privacy-protective as a traditional search warrant, and some courts have ruled that such orders are unconstitutional when used to read a suspect's e-mail. Appelbaum has not been charged with a crime. However I am not a US
posted by adamvasco at 4:09 AM on October 11, 2011 [4 favorites]
three blind mice, he's not even been *accused* of anything, and yet the government routinely confiscates his personal belongings - laptops, cellphones, etc - subjects him to detention every time he enters the country, and now the government is asking for things like the names of everyone he's contacted by email going back years.
Come on. This is a seriously fucked abuse of the U.S. constitution. Greenwald said it better, with links, yesterday:
Speaking of secrecy obssession: U.S. citizen Jacob Appelbaum was identified as a WikiLeaks spokesman last year. Since then, despite being charged with (let alone convicted of) no crime whatsoever, he has — all without any search warrants – had his laptop, cellphone and camera seized at the airport; been repeatedly subjected to detention every time he re-enters the country; had people whose only crime was to appear in his telephone subjected to similar harrassment; had orders issued for information showing his Twitter activities and communications; and now, as The Wall Street Journal reports today, has had a secret Order served by the DOJ on Google and another internet provider for an array of information relating to his email activity (including the list of those with whom he has corresponded by email over the last two years: I’m happy to say I’m one of those correspondents).
The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution guarantees “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures” and that “no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause.” In light of everything the U.S. Government has been able to seize regarding Appelbaum without a single search warrant — laptops, cellphones, cameras, memory sticks, Twitter activity, electronic goods of his friends, interrogation via forcible detention, and now lists of his email correspondents and other information showing his email activity — is there any rational conclusion other than to view that Amendment as an absurd joke?
posted by mediareport at 4:39 AM on October 11, 2011 [25 favorites]
Come on. This is a seriously fucked abuse of the U.S. constitution. Greenwald said it better, with links, yesterday:
Speaking of secrecy obssession: U.S. citizen Jacob Appelbaum was identified as a WikiLeaks spokesman last year. Since then, despite being charged with (let alone convicted of) no crime whatsoever, he has — all without any search warrants – had his laptop, cellphone and camera seized at the airport; been repeatedly subjected to detention every time he re-enters the country; had people whose only crime was to appear in his telephone subjected to similar harrassment; had orders issued for information showing his Twitter activities and communications; and now, as The Wall Street Journal reports today, has had a secret Order served by the DOJ on Google and another internet provider for an array of information relating to his email activity (including the list of those with whom he has corresponded by email over the last two years: I’m happy to say I’m one of those correspondents).
The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution guarantees “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures” and that “no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause.” In light of everything the U.S. Government has been able to seize regarding Appelbaum without a single search warrant — laptops, cellphones, cameras, memory sticks, Twitter activity, electronic goods of his friends, interrogation via forcible detention, and now lists of his email correspondents and other information showing his email activity — is there any rational conclusion other than to view that Amendment as an absurd joke?
posted by mediareport at 4:39 AM on October 11, 2011 [25 favorites]
Too many wrongly characterize the debate as "security versus privacy." The real choice is liberty versus control. Tyranny, whether it arises under threat of foreign physical attack or under constant domestic authoritative scrutiny, is still tyranny. Liberty requires security without intrusion, security plus privacy. Widespread police surveillance is the very definition of a police state. And that's why we should champion privacy even when we have nothing to hide.posted by brokkr at 4:39 AM on October 11, 2011 [8 favorites]
—Bruce Schneier, The Eternal Value of Privacy
Just to be clear: This is the same government we're supposed to gladly give more money to in other MeFi posts?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:06 AM on October 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:06 AM on October 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I've been compelled to use GPG a few times for projects and I always find it a pain in the butt to remember to use, but it's getting to the point where I want to encrypt all my mail. Because if enough of us do it, it's going to create a bigger pain in the ass for whomever has to try to figure out why.
posted by yerfatma at 5:17 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by yerfatma at 5:17 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
I just find it interesting and terrifying just how far the US powers that be will go to curtail liberty and freedom of speech.
That's just how I feel about how far people will go to find excuses for it.
posted by Trurl at 5:37 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
That's just how I feel about how far people will go to find excuses for it.
posted by Trurl at 5:37 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Does the TSA suppose that, if they harass TOR's developers enough, the project will just go away? They're correct to feel threatened by it; but if they think they can merely bother it into submission, then I don't think they actually understand the threat it poses.
posted by LogicalDash at 5:47 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by LogicalDash at 5:47 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Tor, modern as it is, is a relic from a different time. From the About page:
Tor was originally designed, implemented, and deployed as a third-generation onion routing project of the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory. It was originally developed with the U.S. Navy in mind, for the primary purpose of protecting government communications. Today, it is used every day for a wide variety of purposes by normal people, the military, journalists, law enforcement officers, activists, and many others.
Also there is a good reason why they don't understand the threat it poses. It is because they assume it can be controlled, and there is an endless line of security specialists that will tell them that yes it can be controlled, traced, tracked and beaten into submission, and with a few million dollars they will get started in it right now.
If you have enough money, it becomes very hard to learn simple truths.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 5:55 AM on October 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
Tor was originally designed, implemented, and deployed as a third-generation onion routing project of the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory. It was originally developed with the U.S. Navy in mind, for the primary purpose of protecting government communications. Today, it is used every day for a wide variety of purposes by normal people, the military, journalists, law enforcement officers, activists, and many others.
Also there is a good reason why they don't understand the threat it poses. It is because they assume it can be controlled, and there is an endless line of security specialists that will tell them that yes it can be controlled, traced, tracked and beaten into submission, and with a few million dollars they will get started in it right now.
If you have enough money, it becomes very hard to learn simple truths.
posted by CautionToTheWind at 5:55 AM on October 11, 2011 [7 favorites]
Another way to frame it is Applebaum is a leading technical expert and spokesperson for Wikileaks. The US government suspects members of Wikileaks of participating in a conspiracy to steal and expose classified materials with Bradley Manning. US customs has the right to search and confiscate items when you cross an international border. Data provided to a 3rd party like gmail and ip logs are not protected.
On the plus side he isn't getting the Jose Padilla treatment. That's progress.
posted by humanfont at 6:11 AM on October 11, 2011
On the plus side he isn't getting the Jose Padilla treatment. That's progress.
posted by humanfont at 6:11 AM on October 11, 2011
The US government suspects members of Wikileaks of participating in a conspiracy to steal and expose classified materials with Bradley Manning.
To frame this another way, the federal government went on a ten-year secrecy bender as a result of which everything they knew (to a first approximation) was classified, a ten-year hiring bender behind that veil of secrecy as a result of which they granted clearances to a number of people equal to the population of New York City west of the East River in order for those people to even pretend to be able to get anything done, failed to distinguish things that were really secret from things that weren't really secret, fucked up their access control (by relying on Executive Order 13526 and 18 USC 793 penalties instead of actual control before the fact), and got the royal screwing inevitable as a result thereof.
And all they got out of it was one guy to prosecute. Hell, I'd call anyone he talked to a conspirator, too, under the circumstances. Especially if I had courts that had been proven to be pliable anytime I looked at them with my big, frightened eyes and said, "but, national security."
If you have enough to nail the guy as a conspirator, do it already. Fucking with him at the border and reading his email via dodgy subpoenas is not the action of a state looking for the truth, it's the action of a state abusing its power to harass an embarrassment, in apparent violation of its own laws.
posted by Vetinari at 6:26 AM on October 11, 2011 [24 favorites]
To frame this another way, the federal government went on a ten-year secrecy bender as a result of which everything they knew (to a first approximation) was classified, a ten-year hiring bender behind that veil of secrecy as a result of which they granted clearances to a number of people equal to the population of New York City west of the East River in order for those people to even pretend to be able to get anything done, failed to distinguish things that were really secret from things that weren't really secret, fucked up their access control (by relying on Executive Order 13526 and 18 USC 793 penalties instead of actual control before the fact), and got the royal screwing inevitable as a result thereof.
And all they got out of it was one guy to prosecute. Hell, I'd call anyone he talked to a conspirator, too, under the circumstances. Especially if I had courts that had been proven to be pliable anytime I looked at them with my big, frightened eyes and said, "but, national security."
If you have enough to nail the guy as a conspirator, do it already. Fucking with him at the border and reading his email via dodgy subpoenas is not the action of a state looking for the truth, it's the action of a state abusing its power to harass an embarrassment, in apparent violation of its own laws.
posted by Vetinari at 6:26 AM on October 11, 2011 [24 favorites]
Does the TSA suppose that, if they harass TOR's developers enough, the project will just go away? They're correct to feel threatened by it; but if they think they can merely bother it into submission, then I don't think they actually understand the threat it poses.
I don't think that's their plan. It's a fishing trip; they hope that eventually they will find evidence that Appelbaum has actually done something illegal, and they can then go all-out on him and his colleagues. If they don't find anything like that, look for something to be manufactured.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:49 AM on October 11, 2011
I don't think that's their plan. It's a fishing trip; they hope that eventually they will find evidence that Appelbaum has actually done something illegal, and they can then go all-out on him and his colleagues. If they don't find anything like that, look for something to be manufactured.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:49 AM on October 11, 2011
Jessamyn, I missed whatever you deleted; by "site reaction" do you mean us jackals, or mod action in the event of a similar request from the feds for Metafilter mail and activity?
I don't know if I've ever sent Jacob email. Should probably check before my next trip through Customs and Immigration.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:06 AM on October 11, 2011
I don't know if I've ever sent Jacob email. Should probably check before my next trip through Customs and Immigration.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:06 AM on October 11, 2011
Boarder agents: the force tasked with keeping the thresholds to your rented rooms secure.
posted by clvrmnky at 7:09 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by clvrmnky at 7:09 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
And the other side of this story not mentioned in the post is the history between Tor and US Embassy staff. "Unencrypted traffic is unencrypted", and all.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:10 AM on October 11, 2011
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 7:10 AM on October 11, 2011
It seems to be an application of existing law onto a new medium.
Watching Prohibition on PBS i was reminded of this. They wiretapped phones of the bootlegging mobsters, who at first didn't have a clue it could be done (and at first it was just a transcription, not even a recording.), and that it would be illegal. It was interesting seeing the smugness of the gangsters, assuming it would be struck as not legal, but to their surprise it was considered valid. The point that reminded me of this was that they mentioned that when a new communication form comes about, the government will use it as much as possible and push the limits until it gets validated as legal by higher courts. There were other parallels with the war on terror, country in disarray, government spending on things most people didn't feel it should be, etc.
posted by usagizero at 7:27 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Watching Prohibition on PBS i was reminded of this. They wiretapped phones of the bootlegging mobsters, who at first didn't have a clue it could be done (and at first it was just a transcription, not even a recording.), and that it would be illegal. It was interesting seeing the smugness of the gangsters, assuming it would be struck as not legal, but to their surprise it was considered valid. The point that reminded me of this was that they mentioned that when a new communication form comes about, the government will use it as much as possible and push the limits until it gets validated as legal by higher courts. There were other parallels with the war on terror, country in disarray, government spending on things most people didn't feel it should be, etc.
posted by usagizero at 7:27 AM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
And the other side of this story not mentioned in the post is the history between Tor and US Embassy staff.
To be clear, that "history" involved an independent Tor node operator demonstrating that some Tor users were using the software in an insecure fashion. Nothing to do with Jake Appelbaum or the Tor Project.
posted by twirlip at 7:57 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
To be clear, that "history" involved an independent Tor node operator demonstrating that some Tor users were using the software in an insecure fashion. Nothing to do with Jake Appelbaum or the Tor Project.
posted by twirlip at 7:57 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Nothing to do with Jake Appelbaum or the Tor Project.
Embassy folks were using a tool built (in part) by ioerror without understanding all the implications therein. Although I agree the inadvertent disclosures were in no way the fault of Jacob or the Tor Project, to say they had 'nothing to do' with it goes too far. The users had a false sense of security from using Tor, and the user-friendliness and messaging from the Tor team has improved since then.
The tools provided by Tor have been improved as a result of attacks like those against the embassy traffic. I'm certain the tool developers understood those attacks prior to 2007, but research like Egerstad's helped improve Tor by bringing them to light.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 8:18 AM on October 11, 2011
Embassy folks were using a tool built (in part) by ioerror without understanding all the implications therein. Although I agree the inadvertent disclosures were in no way the fault of Jacob or the Tor Project, to say they had 'nothing to do' with it goes too far. The users had a false sense of security from using Tor, and the user-friendliness and messaging from the Tor team has improved since then.
The tools provided by Tor have been improved as a result of attacks like those against the embassy traffic. I'm certain the tool developers understood those attacks prior to 2007, but research like Egerstad's helped improve Tor by bringing them to light.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 8:18 AM on October 11, 2011
Yeah, we're on the same page. I just wouldn't want anyone to get the impression that that incident is a reason for the harassment ioerror is getting.
posted by twirlip at 8:34 AM on October 11, 2011
posted by twirlip at 8:34 AM on October 11, 2011
Scary behaviour like this is why I refuse to be routed through the states when I fly.
I remember just after 9-11 a canadian citizen of Syrian origin travelling through the states was seized at the airport as a suspected terrorist and was deported without trial to a Syrian prison for a year of torture and abuse. He was eventually released and able to return to Canada because he had done nothing wrong but he will never be the same after that experience.
posted by Gwynarra at 8:39 AM on October 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
I remember just after 9-11 a canadian citizen of Syrian origin travelling through the states was seized at the airport as a suspected terrorist and was deported without trial to a Syrian prison for a year of torture and abuse. He was eventually released and able to return to Canada because he had done nothing wrong but he will never be the same after that experience.
posted by Gwynarra at 8:39 AM on October 11, 2011 [2 favorites]
Can we stop this and get some more financial industry correspondence instead?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:40 AM on October 11, 2011
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:40 AM on October 11, 2011
Improved improved improved improved. Need thesaurus.
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 8:45 AM on October 11, 2011
posted by These Premises Are Alarmed at 8:45 AM on October 11, 2011
Scary behaviour like this is why I refuse to be routed through the states when I fly.
I think you'd be okay if you were strongly encrypted.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:50 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think you'd be okay if you were strongly encrypted.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 8:50 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
A guy in an ICE uniform who crashes on your couch without an invitation in possible violation of the third amendment?
posted by Vetinari at 8:58 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Vetinari at 8:58 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I have much love for sonic.net as my ISP. That they'd also take the time, effort, and expense to resist an invasion of their customers' privacy makes me very happy. If you're in the SF Bay Area consider them: great service, too.
Google comes out looking bad in some versions of this story, but historically they've been pretty good at resisting government encroachment. They comply with US law, they have to, but (at least in the past) have been thorough in requiring proper documentation. One example was in 2006, when Google held up giving search logs when AOL, Microsoft, and Yahoo just handed them over.
posted by Nelson at 9:01 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Google comes out looking bad in some versions of this story, but historically they've been pretty good at resisting government encroachment. They comply with US law, they have to, but (at least in the past) have been thorough in requiring proper documentation. One example was in 2006, when Google held up giving search logs when AOL, Microsoft, and Yahoo just handed them over.
posted by Nelson at 9:01 AM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've expanded upon that first comment over in metatalk, proposing an kind of pledge drive to use more encryption.
We should all use more encryption anyways and doing so make an extremely painless protest against the treatment of Jacob Appelbaum. In particular, you might consider running a Tor relay or I2P router, but simply using HTTPS Everywhere or IM client's off-the-record messaging makes it harder for "big brother" too.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:26 PM on October 11, 2011
We should all use more encryption anyways and doing so make an extremely painless protest against the treatment of Jacob Appelbaum. In particular, you might consider running a Tor relay or I2P router, but simply using HTTPS Everywhere or IM client's off-the-record messaging makes it harder for "big brother" too.
posted by jeffburdges at 12:26 PM on October 11, 2011
I just find it interesting and terrifying just how far the US powers that be will go to curtail liberty and freedom of speech.
That's just how I feel about how far people will go to find excuses for it.
Jonathan Turley says it's almost as if they have Stockholm syndrome: President Obama has been a disaster for civil liberties
posted by homunculus at 12:26 PM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
That's just how I feel about how far people will go to find excuses for it.
Jonathan Turley says it's almost as if they have Stockholm syndrome: President Obama has been a disaster for civil liberties
posted by homunculus at 12:26 PM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
President Obama has been a disaster for civil liberties
Still, around here it's either vote for him or die. That kind of thinking is just about as responsible for Appelbaum's treatment.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:50 PM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
Still, around here it's either vote for him or die. That kind of thinking is just about as responsible for Appelbaum's treatment.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:50 PM on October 11, 2011 [3 favorites]
ZenMasterThis: "Just to be clear: This is the same government we're supposed to gladly give more money to in other MeFi posts?"
The government has a budget. Some of it which, yes, goes towards horrible things like this. A good portion of it, though, goes towards public services that would either be impossible or horribly expensive for the private sector to provide for all citizens. What is happening is that these necessary services are being curtailed because of a concerted effort to keep money in the hands of the wealthy by keeping their tax burden relatively low.
It's almost as if there are really two governments: there is the government that provides necessary services and resources to the general public. This is the government that is being downsized, reduced, and hobbled. Then there is the government that protects corporate interests and wealthy interests by stifling dissent, encroaching on civil liberties, and keeps its citizens in an unnecessary state of fear and distrust so that they're unlikely to pay close attention to the fact that they are seeing increasingly less representation in their government.
This is why I really hate the very bizarre treatment of the Occupy movement in the media. They're a political movement just as much as the Tea Party was. And indeed the Tea Party was equally amorphous with equally fringe and mainstream participants, with a decidedly murky position short of "We hate Obama." The Occupy movement is meant to send a signal that people are upset with the way things are and want something to be done about it. The real problem is that all the Tea Party had to do to show its legitimacy was to push conservative candidates forward during the primary and vote Republican in the general election. Who can the 99% movement put forward? How can their voting make a mark? Neither the Democrats nor Republicans represent their views.
It kind of pisses me off how we never can seem to get a genuinely progressive President elected. I have to think that, by their very nature, Democrats are going to skew moderate by the time they get to the top. They're too measured, too willing to see things in terms of shades of gray rather than in absolutes (this used to be true for conservatives, too, by the way, but not since before Reagan). I'm going to shrug my shoulders and vote for Obama next year. He's been a huge disappointment in many ways and part of that is reflected in the fact that it's very nearly election year and it feels like nothing has happened. This is both a legislative failure, in the sense that he has failed to get many things passed, but more importantly a message failure. He was so great during the election in making speeches that energized people. But I know little to nothing of his accomplishments during office because he just hasn't made an effort to make them present and known. Has he done anything? The general public will never know.
I know, this isn't really a politics thread. But everything's politics, isn't it?
posted by Deathalicious at 12:57 PM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
The government has a budget. Some of it which, yes, goes towards horrible things like this. A good portion of it, though, goes towards public services that would either be impossible or horribly expensive for the private sector to provide for all citizens. What is happening is that these necessary services are being curtailed because of a concerted effort to keep money in the hands of the wealthy by keeping their tax burden relatively low.
It's almost as if there are really two governments: there is the government that provides necessary services and resources to the general public. This is the government that is being downsized, reduced, and hobbled. Then there is the government that protects corporate interests and wealthy interests by stifling dissent, encroaching on civil liberties, and keeps its citizens in an unnecessary state of fear and distrust so that they're unlikely to pay close attention to the fact that they are seeing increasingly less representation in their government.
This is why I really hate the very bizarre treatment of the Occupy movement in the media. They're a political movement just as much as the Tea Party was. And indeed the Tea Party was equally amorphous with equally fringe and mainstream participants, with a decidedly murky position short of "We hate Obama." The Occupy movement is meant to send a signal that people are upset with the way things are and want something to be done about it. The real problem is that all the Tea Party had to do to show its legitimacy was to push conservative candidates forward during the primary and vote Republican in the general election. Who can the 99% movement put forward? How can their voting make a mark? Neither the Democrats nor Republicans represent their views.
It kind of pisses me off how we never can seem to get a genuinely progressive President elected. I have to think that, by their very nature, Democrats are going to skew moderate by the time they get to the top. They're too measured, too willing to see things in terms of shades of gray rather than in absolutes (this used to be true for conservatives, too, by the way, but not since before Reagan). I'm going to shrug my shoulders and vote for Obama next year. He's been a huge disappointment in many ways and part of that is reflected in the fact that it's very nearly election year and it feels like nothing has happened. This is both a legislative failure, in the sense that he has failed to get many things passed, but more importantly a message failure. He was so great during the election in making speeches that energized people. But I know little to nothing of his accomplishments during office because he just hasn't made an effort to make them present and known. Has he done anything? The general public will never know.
I know, this isn't really a politics thread. But everything's politics, isn't it?
posted by Deathalicious at 12:57 PM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
Blazecock Pileon: "President Obama has been a disaster for civil liberties
Still, around here it's either vote for him or die. That kind of thinking is just about as responsible for Appelbaum's treatment."
Yeah, sometimes I think a best-case scenario might be Obama losing to a politically weak Republican candidate who gets close to nothing done for 4 years except keep the crappy status quo going. Hopefully by then people will be ready for real change, we might see a shift back to a progressive Congress in 2014 and then in 2016 elect someone who actually holds progressive positions. Two things need to happen, though: 1) 99% needs to shift to a more organized movement ala MoveOn that, apart from pushing candidates, also holds their feet to the fire after election 2) We need to pay really close attention to the policies that the candidates are putting first and foremost and how they say they're going to push them through the legislative process. I'd say the most urgent positions would be address income inequality, then the curtailment of civil liberties (including reproductive rights), and then the environment.
I put income inequality before civil liberties because if you have an entire generation and class of people who are working 60+ hours a week and barely have the energy to take care of their families, they're not exactly going to have the capacity to exercise those rights.
Problems like the one Applebaum is going through are flying under the radar because people just don't have the energy or will to care.
posted by Deathalicious at 1:09 PM on October 11, 2011
Still, around here it's either vote for him or die. That kind of thinking is just about as responsible for Appelbaum's treatment."
Yeah, sometimes I think a best-case scenario might be Obama losing to a politically weak Republican candidate who gets close to nothing done for 4 years except keep the crappy status quo going. Hopefully by then people will be ready for real change, we might see a shift back to a progressive Congress in 2014 and then in 2016 elect someone who actually holds progressive positions. Two things need to happen, though: 1) 99% needs to shift to a more organized movement ala MoveOn that, apart from pushing candidates, also holds their feet to the fire after election 2) We need to pay really close attention to the policies that the candidates are putting first and foremost and how they say they're going to push them through the legislative process. I'd say the most urgent positions would be address income inequality, then the curtailment of civil liberties (including reproductive rights), and then the environment.
I put income inequality before civil liberties because if you have an entire generation and class of people who are working 60+ hours a week and barely have the energy to take care of their families, they're not exactly going to have the capacity to exercise those rights.
Problems like the one Applebaum is going through are flying under the radar because people just don't have the energy or will to care.
posted by Deathalicious at 1:09 PM on October 11, 2011
It's almost as if there are really two governments: there is the government that provides necessary services and resources to the general public. This is the government that is being downsized, reduced, and hobbled.
That's certainly one way of looking at it. Another way might be that smaller governments never reach the critical mass to do anything BUT provide critical services.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:52 PM on October 11, 2011
That's certainly one way of looking at it. Another way might be that smaller governments never reach the critical mass to do anything BUT provide critical services.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 1:52 PM on October 11, 2011
I disagree that income inequality matter more than civil liberties, deathalicious. There is an enormous potential for erosion of authorities in technological innovation. Yet, if you lack civil liberties traditions, then authoritarians dedicate enormous efforts towards turning advancements against the masses, ala the Great Firewall of China. And serious enough income inequality inherently creates many people with time on their hands anyways.
I'd vaguely considered doing some volunteer work for Obama's campaign, maybe statistical work or software or something. I ultimately decided against doing so after considering his civil liberties record. I felt his record on inequality issues was good enough however that his campaign deserved an email explaining why. I'll send them another email next year explaining that I cannot vote for him either, for the same reasons. I donno if I'd feel differently if I lived in a swing state.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:24 PM on October 11, 2011
I'd vaguely considered doing some volunteer work for Obama's campaign, maybe statistical work or software or something. I ultimately decided against doing so after considering his civil liberties record. I felt his record on inequality issues was good enough however that his campaign deserved an email explaining why. I'll send them another email next year explaining that I cannot vote for him either, for the same reasons. I donno if I'd feel differently if I lived in a swing state.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:24 PM on October 11, 2011
had his laptop, cellphone and camera seized at the airport
Can this be anything but mean-spirited harassment? Can anyone in the government be dumb enough to think a guy like this who knows how to use the internet would carry incriminating data into the country on his person?
posted by straight at 7:02 PM on October 11, 2011
Can this be anything but mean-spirited harassment? Can anyone in the government be dumb enough to think a guy like this who knows how to use the internet would carry incriminating data into the country on his person?
posted by straight at 7:02 PM on October 11, 2011
Progress is he's still alive. No random hit and run, or troubled hacker takes his own life obit. Progress is he hasn't been detained as an enemy combatant or agent. That's the way things worked recently. As bad as you think it is now, more is in the open. There are limits again.
posted by humanfont at 8:48 PM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by humanfont at 8:48 PM on October 11, 2011 [1 favorite]
NY Times sues government to learn the DoJ's classified interpretation of the PATRIOT Act
posted by jeffburdges at 11:29 PM on October 11, 2011
posted by jeffburdges at 11:29 PM on October 11, 2011
That's certainly one way of looking at it. Another way might be that smaller governments never reach the critical mass to do anything BUT provide critical services.
Who defines what's a critical service? I think many on the right, in the USA, would believe that spying and assassinations are much more essential than any kind of social services.
posted by Iax at 6:34 PM on October 12, 2011
Who defines what's a critical service? I think many on the right, in the USA, would believe that spying and assassinations are much more essential than any kind of social services.
posted by Iax at 6:34 PM on October 12, 2011
Can this be anything but mean-spirited harassment?
Yes, it could just be highly motivated prosecutors who are using every tool in their arsenal to try to demonstrate that there was a broad criminal conspiracy coordinated by members of Wikileaks agains the United States. If only their zealousness could be turned to look at things such as the criminal conspiracy to take us to war in Iraq through deliberate disinformation and manipulation of intelligence reports and the whole torture thing. I'm told though that this would be looking backwards. Apparently we only look backwards when some mentally unstable and bored private is allowed to plug an unsecured laptop into our classified networks and download our national security secrets while mouthing the words to Lady Gaga. Then by god we look backwards. This will not stand. Just like Lynndie England and her photographs.
posted by humanfont at 6:48 PM on October 12, 2011
Yes, it could just be highly motivated prosecutors who are using every tool in their arsenal to try to demonstrate that there was a broad criminal conspiracy coordinated by members of Wikileaks agains the United States. If only their zealousness could be turned to look at things such as the criminal conspiracy to take us to war in Iraq through deliberate disinformation and manipulation of intelligence reports and the whole torture thing. I'm told though that this would be looking backwards. Apparently we only look backwards when some mentally unstable and bored private is allowed to plug an unsecured laptop into our classified networks and download our national security secrets while mouthing the words to Lady Gaga. Then by god we look backwards. This will not stand. Just like Lynndie England and her photographs.
posted by humanfont at 6:48 PM on October 12, 2011
Yes, it could just be highly motivated prosecutors who are using every tool in their arsenal to try to demonstrate that there was a broad criminal conspiracy coordinated by members of Wikileaks agains the United States.
But it's such a ridiculous "tool". It's essentially the same thing as calling Appelbaum and asking him to drop by the police station sometime, "and please bring a laptop with any incriminating data you happen to have so we could check that out."
posted by straight at 8:50 AM on October 13, 2011
But it's such a ridiculous "tool". It's essentially the same thing as calling Appelbaum and asking him to drop by the police station sometime, "and please bring a laptop with any incriminating data you happen to have so we could check that out."
posted by straight at 8:50 AM on October 13, 2011
Catching the Next WikiLeaker: A year after the most expansive leak of classified information in U.S. history, the intelligence community is deploying refined big-brother software to monitor the spies’ lifeblood: their computer networks.
posted by homunculus at 4:37 PM on October 21, 2011
posted by homunculus at 4:37 PM on October 21, 2011
NY Times sues government to learn the DoJ's classified interpretation of the PATRIOT Act
Ten Years After the Patriot Act, a Look at Three of the Most Dangerous Provisions Affecting Ordinary Americans
posted by homunculus at 9:55 AM on October 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Ten Years After the Patriot Act, a Look at Three of the Most Dangerous Provisions Affecting Ordinary Americans
posted by homunculus at 9:55 AM on October 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
Patriot Act Turns 10, With No Signs of Retirement
posted by homunculus at 10:38 AM on October 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 10:38 AM on October 27, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'd just like to comment and tell you that I'm not actually free to comment on the issues in this post.
To state a few facts:
I can't really answer any questions, I'm sorry.
I appreciate that many of you support me.
I am not charged with a crime or indicted in anyway.
My airport detentions by CBP/US Army/TSA/various DHS people are only a small part of the government's overall tactics.
I am the target of egregious political harassment and there is no question about it. I have been told as much to my face by the very people who refused me access to legal council, a bathroom and who then proceeded to steal my property.
I am not the only person in the United States that is subject to this kind of harassment. There are thousands of people in the exact same situation and if you support me, I hope that you also support them. We have to make it better for everyone, we're all in this together.
posted by ioerror at 6:22 PM on November 3, 2011 [9 favorites]
To state a few facts:
I can't really answer any questions, I'm sorry.
I appreciate that many of you support me.
I am not charged with a crime or indicted in anyway.
My airport detentions by CBP/US Army/TSA/various DHS people are only a small part of the government's overall tactics.
I am the target of egregious political harassment and there is no question about it. I have been told as much to my face by the very people who refused me access to legal council, a bathroom and who then proceeded to steal my property.
I am not the only person in the United States that is subject to this kind of harassment. There are thousands of people in the exact same situation and if you support me, I hope that you also support them. We have to make it better for everyone, we're all in this together.
posted by ioerror at 6:22 PM on November 3, 2011 [9 favorites]
I can't really answer any questions, I'm sorry.
No problem. Thanks for checking in.
posted by homunculus at 1:31 PM on November 4, 2011
No problem. Thanks for checking in.
posted by homunculus at 1:31 PM on November 4, 2011
When the government decided I was a terrorist: While I was living in Norway, a shadowy branch of the U.S. Treasury Department put a block on my bank account
posted by homunculus at 1:32 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by homunculus at 1:32 PM on November 4, 2011
Darpa’s Plan to Trap the Next WikiLeaker: Decoy Documents
posted by homunculus at 1:33 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 1:33 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
We support you in dealing with this political harassment, and support your work more broadly. Thanks man!
I'll point out both the GlobaLeaks software, which I discovered from ioerror's github profile, as well as the leakdirectory.org wiki linked there, which maintains a listing of leaks sites with occasional warnings about insecure leaks sites.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:06 AM on November 5, 2011
I'll point out both the GlobaLeaks software, which I discovered from ioerror's github profile, as well as the leakdirectory.org wiki linked there, which maintains a listing of leaks sites with occasional warnings about insecure leaks sites.
posted by jeffburdges at 9:06 AM on November 5, 2011
I'd missed ioerror's recently posted boingboing article Air Space somehow.
Judge rules feds can have WikiLeaks associates’ Twitter data
U.S. District Court Judge Liam O’Grady in Alexandria, Virginia upheld a magistrate’s decision earlier this year allowing prosecutors to obtain information on the accounts, including records showing when they sent direct messages to one another, and from what internet IP addresses. The ruling does not expose the content of the messages, nor information on other Twitter users who follow the accounts.
Did they really not get the content of the twitter messages?
posted by jeffburdges at 1:42 PM on November 10, 2011
Judge rules feds can have WikiLeaks associates’ Twitter data
U.S. District Court Judge Liam O’Grady in Alexandria, Virginia upheld a magistrate’s decision earlier this year allowing prosecutors to obtain information on the accounts, including records showing when they sent direct messages to one another, and from what internet IP addresses. The ruling does not expose the content of the messages, nor information on other Twitter users who follow the accounts.
Did they really not get the content of the twitter messages?
posted by jeffburdges at 1:42 PM on November 10, 2011
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Email : PGP and GPG are venerable tools that provide solid encryption for email, or any messages the users wish to handle manually, like mefi mails. Imho, everyone should have themselves a public-private key pair with the public key distributed via both webpages and key servers. There are plugins for most mail readers that simplify sending and receiving encrypted emails.
IM : Off-the-record messaging works seamlessly enough unless you use SMS gateways, except for possibly moving keys between systems. Adium offers built-in OTR for Mac OS X users. Pidgin has a plugin for everyone else.
Voice : Zfone adds encryption to SIP connections. Skype has encryption by default, but you shouldn't really trust close source cryptography software.
There are many very different tools for web and other traffic, but everyone should be aware of HTTPS Everywhere. Onion routing networks like Tor and I2P provide reasonably solid anonymity if used correctly, i.e. read the directions.
VPN services let you buy acceptable bandwidth with fair anonymity, but such services lack the resources to fight court orders, as anonymous/lulzsec recently learned when Hide My Ass rolled on them.
And the ubiquitous secure shell acts as the swiss army knife of cryptography tools, offering simple VPNs, tunneling, etc.
posted by jeffburdges at 2:12 AM on October 11, 2011 [58 favorites]