Family fude..
September 27, 2001 1:19 AM Subscribe
Family fude.. to fly, or not to fly? That is the question.. mother and daughter have debate over flying the American flag.. sad sad sad world it is today.. well.. at least her daughter has good sense..
and yes.. its sad that someone wouldnt want to.. im not saying shes wrong.. but i think its sad.. and i dont agree with what she said..
posted by KimmishKim at 1:29 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by KimmishKim at 1:29 AM on September 27, 2001
and yes.. its sad that someone wouldnt want to.. im not saying shes wrong.. but i think its sad.. and i dont agree with what she said..
I think it's sad that you feel people need to prove their devotion and loyalty to their nation by flying a flag. A flag is nothing - it's the people who make up the community. I think it's sad when people feel they need to fly a flag just so other people will believe they are a patriot. Conformity gets you nowhere. Just look at North Belfast these days - the worst rioting in 20 years, and they all so proudly fly their flags
posted by twistedonion at 1:56 AM on September 27, 2001
I think it's sad that you feel people need to prove their devotion and loyalty to their nation by flying a flag. A flag is nothing - it's the people who make up the community. I think it's sad when people feel they need to fly a flag just so other people will believe they are a patriot. Conformity gets you nowhere. Just look at North Belfast these days - the worst rioting in 20 years, and they all so proudly fly their flags
posted by twistedonion at 1:56 AM on September 27, 2001
kimmish, i think you're missing the point. the mother is not enforcing anything on the daughter. mum and daughter are both entitled to their own opinions. they both express their opinions, and get on with their lives. that's how it should be.
posted by netsirk at 1:58 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by netsirk at 1:58 AM on September 27, 2001
It's spelled 'feud', not 'fude'. Just fyi...
Kimmish, that's just a crap link. The "article"- such as it is- is full of strawmen and ad hominem attacks and cheap shots and other lousy rhetorical devices of the weak and insipid. These Nationalistic Review yahoos ("Ann Coulter, call your office") are publishing this crap daily- pretty much the whole right-wing cabal from Michael Kelly to the Washington Times (whose Greg Pierce slammed this same Katha Pollitt op-ed in Tuesday's Washington Times- these right-wing jihads are well-organized!) is up in arms over any signs of dissent or debate. It's absolute jingoistic Nationalist bullshit, and unthinking uncritical worship of one's national leadership or cheap symbolism and platitudes is stupid and dangerous. It pisses me off obviously....
and that she'd try to inforce thoes ideas on her
"Inforce thoes [sic] ideas"? She's her freakin' mom, what else is she going to do?
In the end, mercifully, a mother-daughter compromise ensues: "I tell her she can buy a flag with her own money and fly it out her bedroom window, because that's hers, but the living room is off-limits." How's that for tolerance?
Pretty damn good, I'd say. Her mom did say her daughter could buy her own flag, and fly it in her own bedroom (even though of course it's her parents home)- I'd say that's the perfect tack to take with a child whose views differ from your own. Give them the freedom to express those views but you don't have to subsidize it or support it as if you agree or approve, or that something's wrong in the universe if every single person doesn't agree 100%- a good lesson to teach, methinks.
posted by hincandenza at 2:04 AM on September 27, 2001
me, just above: Kimmish, that's just a crap link.
Let me rephrase that: your decision to link it wasn't crap; rather, I mean that the article itself is crap. Re-reading what I just posted, I wanted to clear that up so there are no hurt feelings. Not attacking you, KK, just those doofuses at National Review et al. :)
Completely unrelated aside: has "jingoistic" become the new "gravitas" (that must-have buzzword in favor for the next week or two)?
posted by hincandenza at 2:10 AM on September 27, 2001
has "jingoistic" become the new "gravitas"
hahahaha! i think you are right, hincandenza!
posted by netsirk at 2:23 AM on September 27, 2001
hahahaha! i think you are right, hincandenza!
posted by netsirk at 2:23 AM on September 27, 2001
> Completely unrelated aside: has "jingoistic" become the
> new "gravitas" (that must-have buzzword in favor for
> the next week or two)?
Use chauvinistic for spice, and to remind people that male chauvinism is just one kind of chauvinism.
[And buzzword is a buzzword.]
posted by pracowity at 2:24 AM on September 27, 2001
> new "gravitas" (that must-have buzzword in favor for
> the next week or two)?
Use chauvinistic for spice, and to remind people that male chauvinism is just one kind of chauvinism.
[And buzzword is a buzzword.]
posted by pracowity at 2:24 AM on September 27, 2001
[has "jingoistic" become the new "gravitas" ]
It's the new paradigm!
posted by revbrian at 2:30 AM on September 27, 2001
It's the new paradigm!
posted by revbrian at 2:30 AM on September 27, 2001
all our flags are made in China. Let's hear it for the American unemployed worker.
posted by Postroad at 2:45 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by Postroad at 2:45 AM on September 27, 2001
Now, me, I was thinking fude=food and hoping for a nice, juicy all-in-the-family cannibalism link, by jingo!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:39 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:39 AM on September 27, 2001
To me, the fact that a mother and daughter can have that discussion is what's right with this country. And the compromise they arrived at was about the most rational one that could be hoped for.
On another note, I did not at all like the implication in the article that, since the mother wanted to wear a symbol of global unity, there was 'no hope' for her. Sad.
posted by toddshot at 4:15 AM on September 27, 2001
On another note, I did not at all like the implication in the article that, since the mother wanted to wear a symbol of global unity, there was 'no hope' for her. Sad.
posted by toddshot at 4:15 AM on September 27, 2001
Jingoistic is in danger of becoming the new xenophobic
posted by johnnyboy at 4:17 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by johnnyboy at 4:17 AM on September 27, 2001
all our flags are made in China. Let's hear it for the American unemployed worker.
There's a reason for that, Postroad...We can't pay Americans $.10/hour to make flags here.
posted by dogmatic at 4:32 AM on September 27, 2001
There's a reason for that, Postroad...We can't pay Americans $.10/hour to make flags here.
posted by dogmatic at 4:32 AM on September 27, 2001
all our flags are belong to China.
Hmm...I was actually getting tired of all the insipid media attention being spilled out over our own homegrown flag makers.
I had also forgotten that flag sales are usually tax-exempt.
Those interested in more vexillogical discourse can go here.
posted by piskycritters at 6:00 AM on September 27, 2001
Hmm...I was actually getting tired of all the insipid media attention being spilled out over our own homegrown flag makers.
I had also forgotten that flag sales are usually tax-exempt.
Those interested in more vexillogical discourse can go here.
posted by piskycritters at 6:00 AM on September 27, 2001
Is anyone else getting sick of commentators commenting on other commentator's comments, in this case even stretching it into a full column?
posted by espada at 6:05 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by espada at 6:05 AM on September 27, 2001
Is anyone else getting sick of commentators commenting on other commentator's comments
::: looks around and wonders if you realize where you are :::
posted by rushmc at 6:23 AM on September 27, 2001
::: looks around and wonders if you realize where you are :::
posted by rushmc at 6:23 AM on September 27, 2001
we should have been supporting "the forces in the Muslim world who call for education, social justice, women's rights, democracy, civil liberties and secularism." Where, exactly, those forces are to be found in poor, ruined Afghanistan, Pollitt does not deign to say.
Very well, then. I will.
posted by Fenriss at 7:20 AM on September 27, 2001
Very well, then. I will.
posted by Fenriss at 7:20 AM on September 27, 2001
A flag is nothing
Actually, a flag is something. Something huge. It's a symbol - and symbols are all about what people invest in them.
Just think about the bald eagle - is it a noble animal that presents a majestic image for a mighty nation, or is it just a carrion eater that feeds in large part by robbing other birds?
posted by Irontom at 7:41 AM on September 27, 2001
Actually, a flag is something. Something huge. It's a symbol - and symbols are all about what people invest in them.
Just think about the bald eagle - is it a noble animal that presents a majestic image for a mighty nation, or is it just a carrion eater that feeds in large part by robbing other birds?
posted by Irontom at 7:41 AM on September 27, 2001
I don't think it's so immoral not to fly your country's flag.. how many people in England fly the English flag? (or, better, the European one?) I don't even know where to buy a proper full sized flag. A British National Party store?
posted by wackybrit at 7:41 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by wackybrit at 7:41 AM on September 27, 2001
I'm not familiar with National Review, is this twisted diatribe by a vitriolic thought policeman the usual standard of writing to be found there?
posted by normy at 7:44 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by normy at 7:44 AM on September 27, 2001
I assumed that "fude" was a clever pun on the "Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt" meme that's been floating around in a whole new context since 9.11. Alas.
posted by chino at 8:06 AM on September 27, 2001
posted by chino at 8:06 AM on September 27, 2001
::: looks around and wonders if you realize where you are :::
We don't get paid for it, though ;)
normy: the National Review exists for lesser right-wing hacks to rehash articles from The Nation in a sarcastic tone of voice. That's all.
posted by holgate at 8:07 AM on September 27, 2001
We don't get paid for it, though ;)
normy: the National Review exists for lesser right-wing hacks to rehash articles from The Nation in a sarcastic tone of voice. That's all.
posted by holgate at 8:07 AM on September 27, 2001
normy, so deadpan.
I can't stand Usenet anymore. I used to frequent a group called alt.true-crime, which had interesting stuff on, well, true crimes, then Chandra/Condit came around, and that brought in a lot of new people who started crossposting to alt.politics.rush-limbaugh and other places, and now it's 60% bloviation on the war -- nothing to do with crime at all. None of the extremists (on either side) seem to care that they've trashed another group and expanded the ditto universe to yet more unwelcome territory.
There was another web forum that seemed to have a good balance of politically savvy people but since the attacks it's become Yet Another Free Republic Outpost and I just got done with a thread trashing Chelsea Clinton -- who never did anything to any one of these f*cks -- with the most obscene commentary about her parentage and sex life (and they call us Bush-haters). The very concept of taking a powder on all this partisan stuff is cast aside -- there's a war on! Salute and shut up with your opposition stuff! The Democrats will be swept away in the upcoming elections now that they've proven how craven and untrustworthy they are! Remember this whole terrorist thing was Clinton's fault! Hey, stop criticizing the US, the US military, or any aspect of our foreign policy, you traitor -- oh, wait, you're blaming Clinton, well have at it!
In other words, it's getting to be a pretty damn ugly world out there.
posted by dhartung at 9:54 AM on September 27, 2001
I can't stand Usenet anymore. I used to frequent a group called alt.true-crime, which had interesting stuff on, well, true crimes, then Chandra/Condit came around, and that brought in a lot of new people who started crossposting to alt.politics.rush-limbaugh and other places, and now it's 60% bloviation on the war -- nothing to do with crime at all. None of the extremists (on either side) seem to care that they've trashed another group and expanded the ditto universe to yet more unwelcome territory.
There was another web forum that seemed to have a good balance of politically savvy people but since the attacks it's become Yet Another Free Republic Outpost and I just got done with a thread trashing Chelsea Clinton -- who never did anything to any one of these f*cks -- with the most obscene commentary about her parentage and sex life (and they call us Bush-haters). The very concept of taking a powder on all this partisan stuff is cast aside -- there's a war on! Salute and shut up with your opposition stuff! The Democrats will be swept away in the upcoming elections now that they've proven how craven and untrustworthy they are! Remember this whole terrorist thing was Clinton's fault! Hey, stop criticizing the US, the US military, or any aspect of our foreign policy, you traitor -- oh, wait, you're blaming Clinton, well have at it!
In other words, it's getting to be a pretty damn ugly world out there.
posted by dhartung at 9:54 AM on September 27, 2001
Strange, today's New York Times has an article entitled " Deciding Whether to Fly," in which a mother and daughter agonize over a different type of decision. (Note, link requires free registration.)
posted by Fofer at 12:09 PM on September 27, 2001
posted by Fofer at 12:09 PM on September 27, 2001
Argh. OK, I dearly love and enjoy Metafilter, and now I have to de-lurk to comment on this article. I know Ross Douthat, the author of the piece, and while I didn't know he wrote for the superconservative National Review, the fact doesn't surprise me in the least. Ross is a nice enough guy in his own right, but I promise you, God gave him the most patronizing-sounding voice of all time, and he's somehow managed to hone his literary voice to a pitch-perfect imitation of the original. The utter, almost pungent cockiness of his tone, on display in this article, drives me absolutely up the wall. I've long gotten over people who like to say anything for the pure edginess of the act. But Ross is special. He knows he creates fresh enemies at every clause and punctuation mark and he keeps writing, not because he wants to awaken the world to something revolutionary, but because he enjoys hearing the sound of that hackneyed, backward-thinking, God-forsaken, patronizing voice of his!!! It's like the tell-tale heart or something.
posted by grrarrgh00 at 2:11 PM on September 27, 2001
posted by grrarrgh00 at 2:11 PM on September 27, 2001
hincandenza, dhartung and grrarrrgh00 all get props from me. That whole Kumbaya title features elite and effete old money Republicans tilting at windmills of their own device ala Wm F Buckley..
Like half the country, I saw it all live and have been glued to the TV, radio and the Net ever since. The way the rightwingers have all crawled out from under a FreeRepublican rock to slag the Clintons and the liberalsis just repulsive. Ann Coulter--the last word in Republibimbo Feminazi--couldn't eulogize Barbara Olson without taking another cheap shot at Hillary. I have no love for Wm. J Clinton, the previous (Eisenhower) Republican incumbent, but, please...
I checked out the Smudge Report right after the attack and all the Bush bashing sites had gone down or were flying the flag--while over at Free Republic they were still obsessing about the Clintonian weiner. Cri-yi...
And you ought to see how they're howling about Susan Sontag's piece over at The New Yorker forum.
And on Art Bell, the insomniac trucker/trailer trash verdict is in: it's them Ay-rabs...While Mr. Paranormal Doomsday Du Jour lines up the year's supply of food and batteryless radio. ads...again...America: love it or lump it, by Jingo!
posted by y2karl at 9:39 PM on September 27, 2001
Like half the country, I saw it all live and have been glued to the TV, radio and the Net ever since. The way the rightwingers have all crawled out from under a FreeRepublican rock to slag the Clintons and the liberalsis just repulsive. Ann Coulter--the last word in Republibimbo Feminazi--couldn't eulogize Barbara Olson without taking another cheap shot at Hillary. I have no love for Wm. J Clinton, the previous (Eisenhower) Republican incumbent, but, please...
I checked out the Smudge Report right after the attack and all the Bush bashing sites had gone down or were flying the flag--while over at Free Republic they were still obsessing about the Clintonian weiner. Cri-yi...
And you ought to see how they're howling about Susan Sontag's piece over at The New Yorker forum.
And on Art Bell, the insomniac trucker/trailer trash verdict is in: it's them Ay-rabs...While Mr. Paranormal Doomsday Du Jour lines up the year's supply of food and batteryless radio. ads...again...America: love it or lump it, by Jingo!
posted by y2karl at 9:39 PM on September 27, 2001
the National Review exists for lesser right-wing hacks to rehash articles from The Nation in a sarcastic tone of voice. That's all.
Okay, I'll bite. Where do the quality right-wing writers go?
posted by aaron at 12:59 AM on September 28, 2001
> Okay, I'll bite. Where do the quality right-wing writers go?
Name some.
posted by pracowity at 1:11 AM on September 28, 2001
Name some.
posted by pracowity at 1:11 AM on September 28, 2001
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posted by KimmishKim at 1:28 AM on September 27, 2001