Israeli intelligence agents are alleged to have posed as CIA agents to recruit members of a terrorist group.
January 13, 2012 12:18 PM Subscribe
Foreign Policy is reporting that Israeli intelligence agents posed as CIA officers to recruit members of Jundallah, a designated terrorist group, in its covert fight against the Iranian effort to acquire nuclear capability.
The officials did not know whether the Israeli program to recruit and use Jundallah is ongoing. Nevertheless, they were stunned by the brazenness of the Mossad's efforts.
"It's amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with," the intelligence officer said. "Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought."
So if you don't know if it's an ongoing operation. What's with the "thought they could get away with"? They did get away with it.
posted by Hoopo at 12:26 PM on January 13, 2012
"It's amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with," the intelligence officer said. "Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought."
So if you don't know if it's an ongoing operation. What's with the "thought they could get away with"? They did get away with it.
posted by Hoopo at 12:26 PM on January 13, 2012
What's not to like?
When assholes get the rest of us to shoot at eachother because of their asholery.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:31 PM on January 13, 2012 [3 favorites]
When assholes get the rest of us to shoot at eachother because of their asholery.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 12:31 PM on January 13, 2012 [3 favorites]
"It's amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with," the intelligence officer said. "Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought."
Really? "Amazing"? You're amazed that Israel is carrying out hardcore espionage? You're amazed that they don't give a damn what you think? Because maybe I'm biased by my lifelong interactions with the Israeli community, but doing what they will while not giving a damn about what other people think is a national point of pride. Israelis have turned the concept of brazenness into a fine art. Say what you will about the ethics of what they're doing, but their goddamn flag should have a pair of enormous testicles on it.
"There's no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we're not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians."
Not yet, no. But there's a WMDs-in-Iraq-we-swear situation coming with that country soon enough and I'll put money down on that it's Israel who is going to drag our asses in there.
posted by griphus at 12:35 PM on January 13, 2012 [17 favorites]
Really? "Amazing"? You're amazed that Israel is carrying out hardcore espionage? You're amazed that they don't give a damn what you think? Because maybe I'm biased by my lifelong interactions with the Israeli community, but doing what they will while not giving a damn about what other people think is a national point of pride. Israelis have turned the concept of brazenness into a fine art. Say what you will about the ethics of what they're doing, but their goddamn flag should have a pair of enormous testicles on it.
"There's no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we're not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians."
Not yet, no. But there's a WMDs-in-Iraq-we-swear situation coming with that country soon enough and I'll put money down on that it's Israel who is going to drag our asses in there.
posted by griphus at 12:35 PM on January 13, 2012 [17 favorites]
We've been in a cold war with Iran for ages, now, it seems. Hopefully, we can keep it from becoming another Iraq invasion. Yet another reason to keep the Republicans out of power in Washington. Because you can darn well bet, as soon as the GOP can convince enough folks that it's necessary, we're going to be bombing the heck out of Iran.
Meanwhile, how is any veteran intelligence operative amazed at what the Mossad thought they could get away with?
posted by darkstar at 12:37 PM on January 13, 2012
Meanwhile, how is any veteran intelligence operative amazed at what the Mossad thought they could get away with?
posted by darkstar at 12:37 PM on January 13, 2012
Wouldn't it be funny if the Jundallah guys were actually Iranians pretending to be Russian so they could infiltrate the CIA?
posted by jquinby at 12:39 PM on January 13, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by jquinby at 12:39 PM on January 13, 2012 [9 favorites]
Bob Baer was on Hardball yesterday talking about the recent assassination of an Iranian nuclear scientist, and was saying that the Israelis are trying to provoke the Iranians into starting a war with the U.S.
posted by homunculus at 12:40 PM on January 13, 2012
posted by homunculus at 12:40 PM on January 13, 2012
They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought.
Or they're pretty cocksure that a bunch of morons in US politics are absolutely convinced that they have to be on Israel's side when Jebus comes back and so they can do precisely whatever the hell they want and then demand an apology should it come out and make them look bad.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:44 PM on January 13, 2012 [4 favorites]
Or they're pretty cocksure that a bunch of morons in US politics are absolutely convinced that they have to be on Israel's side when Jebus comes back and so they can do precisely whatever the hell they want and then demand an apology should it come out and make them look bad.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:44 PM on January 13, 2012 [4 favorites]
griphus: " Israelis have turned the concept of brazenness into a fine art. Say what you will about the ethics of what they're doing, but their goddamn flag should have a pair of enormous testicles on it."
That's not a Magen David. It's a cock ring.
posted by zarq at 12:45 PM on January 13, 2012 [3 favorites]
That's not a Magen David. It's a cock ring.
posted by zarq at 12:45 PM on January 13, 2012 [3 favorites]
It does seem like Israel gets away with a lot. What if the Canadians had done this?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:47 PM on January 13, 2012
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:47 PM on January 13, 2012
Bob Baer was on Hardball yesterday talking about the recent assassination of an Iranian nuclear scientist, and was saying that the Israelis are trying to provoke the Iranians into starting a war with the U.S.
Adversaries of Iran Said to Be Stepping Up Covert Actions
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:52 PM on January 13, 2012
Adversaries of Iran Said to Be Stepping Up Covert Actions
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:52 PM on January 13, 2012
It does seem like Israel gets away with a lot. What if the Canadians had done this?
Come on, everybody would have seen right through their plot when they ended every sentence with a question and tried to put gravy on their fries.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:06 PM on January 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
Come on, everybody would have seen right through their plot when they ended every sentence with a question and tried to put gravy on their fries.
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 1:06 PM on January 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
What if the Canadians had done this?
Don Cherry gets away with a lot. Those suits, for one.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:17 PM on January 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
Don Cherry gets away with a lot. Those suits, for one.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:17 PM on January 13, 2012 [2 favorites]
the Israelis are trying to provoke the Iranians into starting a war with the U.S.
Could also be that the US gummint is goading the Israelis into provoking the Iranians into a war with us. Without ol' Saddam and Osama we're going to need a new bogeyman in the region to justify our Gulf & Straights maritime policing policies.
posted by jsavimbi at 1:23 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Could also be that the US gummint is goading the Israelis into provoking the Iranians into a war with us. Without ol' Saddam and Osama we're going to need a new bogeyman in the region to justify our Gulf & Straights maritime policing policies.
posted by jsavimbi at 1:23 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't think the Israelis need goading where Iran is concerned.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:30 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by lesbiassparrow at 1:30 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm amazed at his amazement at what the Israelis thought they could get away with. What did he think the U.S. was going to do if they found out? Cut their military funding? Stop rubber-stamping every other shitty idea the Israeli government comes up with?
Pretty sure the intensity dial for U.S. response to Israel ends at "Indignant Reproach," almost identical to the reaction I get when I mention threesomes to my girlfriend.
posted by Misunderestimated at 1:42 PM on January 13, 2012 [6 favorites]
Pretty sure the intensity dial for U.S. response to Israel ends at "Indignant Reproach," almost identical to the reaction I get when I mention threesomes to my girlfriend.
posted by Misunderestimated at 1:42 PM on January 13, 2012 [6 favorites]
What if the Canadians had done this?
I suppose they'd have been more polite about it, but the little Canadian flag patches on all their backpacks might have been a giveaway.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 1:55 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
I suppose they'd have been more polite about it, but the little Canadian flag patches on all their backpacks might have been a giveaway.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 1:55 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
I really would like to see additional sources for this, not just reposts of the article like on Huffington Post and NPR. So if anyone finds anything, feel free to share.
posted by graxe at 3:10 PM on January 13, 2012
posted by graxe at 3:10 PM on January 13, 2012
"It's amazing what the Israelis thought they could get away with," the intelligence officer said. "Their recruitment activities were nearly in the open. They apparently didn't give a damn what we thought."
I hate to sound like a J Street flack, but for Israel this is survival. For the US it's largely a game.
posted by dhartung at 5:00 PM on January 13, 2012
I hate to sound like a J Street flack, but for Israel this is survival. For the US it's largely a game.
posted by dhartung at 5:00 PM on January 13, 2012
I don't know. The defense/intelligence establishment seems to be the one organization that swings as much pipe as the Israel lobby.
If they turn against Israel then I really wouldn't want to place a bet on who'd win the ensuing policy dogfight.
posted by Grimgrin at 5:18 PM on January 13, 2012
If they turn against Israel then I really wouldn't want to place a bet on who'd win the ensuing policy dogfight.
posted by Grimgrin at 5:18 PM on January 13, 2012
>for Israel this is survival.
Is it really?
I always thought the "imminent destruction" trope was the Israeli brand of They Hate Our Freedoms® -- sensationalist racist propaganda.
If Israel is so worried about its survival, it might try ending the Palestinian apartheid first and see how that goes.
posted by Misunderestimated at 5:21 PM on January 13, 2012 [9 favorites]
Is it really?
I always thought the "imminent destruction" trope was the Israeli brand of They Hate Our Freedoms® -- sensationalist racist propaganda.
If Israel is so worried about its survival, it might try ending the Palestinian apartheid first and see how that goes.
posted by Misunderestimated at 5:21 PM on January 13, 2012 [9 favorites]
>sensationalist racist propaganda.
Right. Because Israel isn't surrounded by countries and groups that loudly and constantly advocate the destruction of the state and murder of its inhabitants. And because those groups aren't engaged in regular bombings of cafes, restaurants, and public buses.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:38 PM on January 13, 2012
Right. Because Israel isn't surrounded by countries and groups that loudly and constantly advocate the destruction of the state and murder of its inhabitants. And because those groups aren't engaged in regular bombings of cafes, restaurants, and public buses.
posted by 1adam12 at 5:38 PM on January 13, 2012
And because those groups aren't engaged in regular bombings of cafes, restaurants, and public buses.
2005 called. They want their talking points back.
posted by andoatnp at 5:46 PM on January 13, 2012 [10 favorites]
2005 called. They want their talking points back.
posted by andoatnp at 5:46 PM on January 13, 2012 [10 favorites]
Know what that sounds like? That sounds a lot like what happens when you unjustifiably and brutally invade a country with superior military power, subjugate its people, and destroy their livelihood. (See also: Iraq.) Weird, the similarities. I'm not defending the murder of civilians (unlike the IDF) but I am saying what the fuck do you think people will do when you take their country away from them.
Poor Israel. Just can't catch a break.
posted by Misunderestimated at 6:18 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Poor Israel. Just can't catch a break.
posted by Misunderestimated at 6:18 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
The feud between Israel and Iran only tangentially relates to the Palestinian issue, however much both Israeli and Iranian propaganda benefit from tying the two together.
posted by AdamCSnider at 8:44 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by AdamCSnider at 8:44 PM on January 13, 2012 [1 favorite]
Assholes posing as assholes to entice assholes into being assholes to assholes.The part where Iranian civilians get blown up? Or maybe the part where this gets blamed on the U.S?
What's not to like?
And because those groups aren't engaged in regular bombings of cafes, restaurants, and public buses.So, does that mean not defending the Israelis who sent hard-core Sunni Muslim terrorists into Iran to do the exact same thing? Or that having civilians blown up means it's now OK to go blowing up civilians? Or what?
Yeah, the Israelis subjugated those Persians!!Hmm, are you following the thread? One guy said something about how Israel is fighting for "survival", someone else said not really, then another guy said well look how everyone around them hates them. Then it got back to, well, they hate them because they trampled all over their lives, kicked them out of their houses, and so on.
But basically the Palestinian aspect isn't really that relevant. The Palestinians are mostly Sunni, not Shia, like Iran. In fact I think 20% or so are actually Christians.
Keep in mind, in the West bank, you have a land mass dotted with Israeli settlements, you have roadblocks, you have restrictions on where Palestinians can travel, and so on. Since the troops are there to protect the settlers, they're allowed pretty free rein to seize people's homes and so on. How would you not expect people treated this way not to be angry? If Israel was so worried about their survival, why don't they remove the settlers? Even if you make the argument that they need the borders where they are for security reasons, there's no reason why they need the settlements there. There's no reason why they need to kick Palestinians out of their homes and replace them with settlers.
So, why not just stop doing that? They could leave military basis there, the same way we have bases all over the world. The Germans aren't unhappy about the bases we've had there for decades. A lot of countries don't even want us to leave, due to budget cuts or whatever.
In some countries, there's more tension (South Korea, for example) but simply having bases isn't nearly antagonizing as what's going on in the west bank.
But instead of stopping settlement activity, the Israelis are actually increasing it. If they're so worried about their "survival" why is that happening?
---
With the Iran thing (which is the topic of the thread), that's actually almost completely separate anyway. But think about it from Iran's perspective. You have two countries, closely allied, where public figures are constantly talking about wanting to invade Iran or bomb it. If you were Iranian, wouldn't you want a nuclear deterrent?
posted by delmoi at 9:49 PM on January 13, 2012
I really would like to see additional sources for this, not just reposts of the article like on Huffington Post and NPR. So if anyone finds anything, feel free to share.
What's the problem? If you can't trust anonymous "former intelligence officers" then who can you trust?
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 1:35 AM on January 14, 2012
What's the problem? If you can't trust anonymous "former intelligence officers" then who can you trust?
posted by GalaxieFiveHundred at 1:35 AM on January 14, 2012
Every country in the region, including Saudi Arabia, wants the USA to attack Iran. The reason I single out Saudi Arabia is that the USA has never gone to war to protect Israel - but it has gone to war twice to protect Saudi Arabia. So yes, given that the Kingdom wants a war, and given that Iran has threatened to block a waterway carrying 20% of the world's oil supplies, I find it very easy to imagine that the USA will be at war before the next election.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:24 AM on January 14, 2012
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:24 AM on January 14, 2012
I hate to sound like a J Street flack, but for Israel this is survival.
Are you able to type that with a straight face? Any pointers on how to do it -- pretend Israel's nuclear weapons arsenal doesn't exist, etc.?
posted by indubitable at 6:15 AM on January 14, 2012
Are you able to type that with a straight face? Any pointers on how to do it -- pretend Israel's nuclear weapons arsenal doesn't exist, etc.?
posted by indubitable at 6:15 AM on January 14, 2012
Funnily enough, Israel's first nuclear test came just a few years after the country was surprise-attacked on a national religous holiday.
posted by rosswald at 6:40 AM on January 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rosswald at 6:40 AM on January 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Apparently Iran is actually blaming the USA for the assassination.
And after reading his Wikipedia entry I'm pretty sceptical about his claims allegedly based on what unnamed officials told him.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:44 AM on January 14, 2012
And after reading his Wikipedia entry I'm pretty sceptical about his claims allegedly based on what unnamed officials told him.
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:44 AM on January 14, 2012
Oops, forgot the main link. Iran: We have evidence US behind scientist slaying
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:49 AM on January 14, 2012
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:49 AM on January 14, 2012
Mossad agents have previously posed as Australians, Canadians, Irish, New Zealanders and British with falisified passports.
It's a sufficiently common tactic that "Mossad false flag" yields over 900,000 results on the Google and has every conspiracy theorist from Damascus to Des Moines earnestly analyzing attacks on the US for signs that Israel is using false flag operations as a way of getting the US to bomb or sanction recalcitrant Arab countries.
posted by MuffinMan at 6:08 AM on January 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's a sufficiently common tactic that "Mossad false flag" yields over 900,000 results on the Google and has every conspiracy theorist from Damascus to Des Moines earnestly analyzing attacks on the US for signs that Israel is using false flag operations as a way of getting the US to bomb or sanction recalcitrant Arab countries.
posted by MuffinMan at 6:08 AM on January 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
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What's not to like?
posted by -harlequin- at 12:20 PM on January 13, 2012 [8 favorites]