Hippies Hate Slayer
February 2, 2012 8:28 PM Subscribe
For ages humankind has struggled with the definitive question of existence. To wit, "Can An Intelligent Person Like Phish?" A writer for Parks and Recreation says yes, but upon further field investigation involving large quantities of booze, psychedelics, pot, and "moonrocks" (Earwolf podcast) the answer is, obviously, no.
I used to be a fan of Phish when I was in high school. I found that my musical taste matured and they just don't seem good to me anymore. I knew a few people who followed them around and would listen to them all the time, I never understood following a band around the country. I would rather see several different bands or Steely Dan.
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 8:37 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by Dick Laurent is Dead at 8:37 PM on February 2, 2012
Drugs and alcohol can make good music better, but they can't make bad music good.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:42 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:42 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Someone loaned me a Phish DVD a few years back (some big deal concert they did out east). I knew nothing about them other than ... "jam band much loved by former Deadheads", which was hardly inspiring.
Yet I found myself kind of enjoying it -- some of the jammier parts anyway, when they were just sort of flowing all over the place. These guys could definitely play. I ended up doing a sort of mash-up in GoldWave (audio editor), almost entirely jammy stuff, one chunk flowing into another for about an hour. I didn't label any of the songs. It just called the whole thing IT (I guess that was the name of the DVD).
Now, maybe five years later I still listen to IT quite a bit. But feel no compulsion to hear any other Phish. IT is enough.
Drugs and alcohol can make good music better, but they can't make bad music good.
What did the Deadhead say to the other Deadhead when the drugs wore off?
- These guys suck.
posted by philip-random at 8:46 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Yet I found myself kind of enjoying it -- some of the jammier parts anyway, when they were just sort of flowing all over the place. These guys could definitely play. I ended up doing a sort of mash-up in GoldWave (audio editor), almost entirely jammy stuff, one chunk flowing into another for about an hour. I didn't label any of the songs. It just called the whole thing IT (I guess that was the name of the DVD).
Now, maybe five years later I still listen to IT quite a bit. But feel no compulsion to hear any other Phish. IT is enough.
Drugs and alcohol can make good music better, but they can't make bad music good.
What did the Deadhead say to the other Deadhead when the drugs wore off?
- These guys suck.
posted by philip-random at 8:46 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Drugs and alcohol can make good music better, but they can't make bad music good.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
posted by swift at 8:48 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
That doesn't make any sense at all.
posted by swift at 8:48 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I did enjoy their copycat live performance of Remain in Light ... but that's possibly because nothing can ruin Remain in Light.
posted by mykescipark at 8:49 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mykescipark at 8:49 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Conflict w/ or w/out resolution creates entertainment? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder?
posted by casual observer at 8:53 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by casual observer at 8:53 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
The name "Earwolf" makes me laugh. Some of these comedy podcasts have pretty funny names (thinking of The Pod F. Tomcast and Sklarbro Country right now).
posted by Edgewise at 8:54 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by Edgewise at 8:54 PM on February 2, 2012
Can an intelligent person like Phish?
Yes.
This has been another episode of Very Brief Answers to Silly Questions.
posted by IjonTichy at 8:54 PM on February 2, 2012 [15 favorites]
Yes.
This has been another episode of Very Brief Answers to Silly Questions.
posted by IjonTichy at 8:54 PM on February 2, 2012 [15 favorites]
I listened to them a lot in my 20s/early 30s. At the time it was really intriguing. Their fluid musicianship is to be admired. I don't listen to them much any more, but that has more to with getting older than with them sucking according to any objective measure. There's a bunch of crappier stuff from that era that we aren't debating about at all, because it's been totally forgotten.
posted by Miko at 8:56 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:56 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Everybody's got their thing.
posted by Miko at 8:58 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:58 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
A writer for Parks and Recreation
Also the man behind Harris' Phone Corner and Humblebrag.
posted by eddydamascene at 8:59 PM on February 2, 2012
Also the man behind Harris' Phone Corner and Humblebrag.
posted by eddydamascene at 8:59 PM on February 2, 2012
Maybe I'm biased as a one-time Phish fan, but I nearly passed out from stifling my maniacal laughter listening to this the other night. It's worth listening to even if you hate Phish, just to hear Harris Wittel's reaction to a recording of him and his buddies talking about the band.
posted by Lorin at 9:08 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by Lorin at 9:08 PM on February 2, 2012
Aw dude, you spoiled the end result. I'm a fan of Comedy Bang Bang but haven't gotten around to listening to this yet. Note that the Earwolf page doesn't give away Scott Aukerman's verdict....
posted by painquale at 9:08 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by painquale at 9:08 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
Speaking of Earwolf and Comedy Bang Bang, the recent episode with Paul F. Tomkins as Werner Herzog is one of the funniest things I've experienced in ages. Tomkins is the bomb.
posted by painquale at 9:11 PM on February 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by painquale at 9:11 PM on February 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Harris Wittels has one of the best Comedy Bang Bang appearances ever, Farts and Procreation. It was voted as the best episode of the year by CBB fans.
Aw dude, you spoiled the end result.
Don't worry, it's not a big deal. The whole point of the show is that Scott is firmly against Phish. If he ever decides he likes Phish, the podcast is immediately over and cancelled.
posted by mokin at 9:14 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Aw dude, you spoiled the end result.
Don't worry, it's not a big deal. The whole point of the show is that Scott is firmly against Phish. If he ever decides he likes Phish, the podcast is immediately over and cancelled.
posted by mokin at 9:14 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, as far as spoilers go, this is pretty far down the annoyance list. Still: grumble.
posted by painquale at 9:16 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by painquale at 9:16 PM on February 2, 2012
There is a lot more nuance to that answer on the podcast anyways. Also, Werner Herzog's appearance on the episode with Zach Galfianakis and Yo La Tengo blew me away. He is so funny!
posted by Lorin at 9:18 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by Lorin at 9:18 PM on February 2, 2012
When I found out my super smart near sanity totally handsome philosophy of science teacher liked Phish I was nearly stunned into silence. It had no place in how I thought about him at all. It was like running into my English teacher at a TMBG concert, very upending.
Phish sometimes plays the theatre near me and thier per show crowds mulling outside seem friendly enough.
posted by The Whelk at 9:22 PM on February 2, 2012
Phish sometimes plays the theatre near me and thier per show crowds mulling outside seem friendly enough.
posted by The Whelk at 9:22 PM on February 2, 2012
Fucking hell - 11 minutes in and nothing has happened yet.
posted by awfurby at 9:23 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by awfurby at 9:23 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hah! They made a funny about a Phish fan on tonight's episode of Parks & Rec.
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 9:25 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by Mei's lost sandal at 9:25 PM on February 2, 2012
I never really warmed to Phish's music, but as a long time Deadhead I absolutely get why so many people love their music and obsessively follow their shows. I also understand that trying to make someone appreciate "your favorite band" is a hopeless task that only results in frustration and/or outright misery for both parties.
posted by mosk at 9:35 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by mosk at 9:35 PM on February 2, 2012
What did the Phish fan say when he sobered up? Dude, this band sucks.
That joke brought to you by a guy that bought a Phish album in 1992 after overhearing it at a party while stoned out of his mind. "Dude, that music last night was great, I gotta get that. All right, here we go. Wait, what the fuck? This sounded totally different. Can I get my money back? So I can buy more weed? Because clearly, that was the key thing..."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:46 PM on February 2, 2012
That joke brought to you by a guy that bought a Phish album in 1992 after overhearing it at a party while stoned out of his mind. "Dude, that music last night was great, I gotta get that. All right, here we go. Wait, what the fuck? This sounded totally different. Can I get my money back? So I can buy more weed? Because clearly, that was the key thing..."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:46 PM on February 2, 2012
I never really got the Phish haterz. They're not really my genre, but, as an amateur musician, I think the very, very high quality of their musicianship is undeniable. And that counts for a lot.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 9:48 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ZenMasterThis at 9:48 PM on February 2, 2012 [1 favorite]
I like Phish a lot. I guess other people can decide if I'm intelligent, but I don't think I'm a stupid hippie or whatever it is you people think must listen to Phish. And I'll say that some of the most intelligent people I've met are into this band. They are good musicians, and thoughtful human beings, and by all accounts just nice people.
posted by koeselitz at 9:52 PM on February 2, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by koeselitz at 9:52 PM on February 2, 2012 [7 favorites]
Also, I should mention this:
Historiologically, the amazingly ubiquitous hatred of Phish fans is generally based on herd instinct and a pretty small experience people seem to have of them. Having known a lot of fans and knowing some about the history of the band I think it's fair to say that there was a moment when the fans got to be too much - some time in the late 90s and early 00s, when even the band was pretty much overwhelmed by the onslaught of fame and the unexpected sensation of being surrounded by anonymous partying people all the time - which, contrary to popular belief, was not the band's natural habitat before that time.
A lot of people who actually care about the band - well, devoted fans in general - are aware of this; which creates a funny situation: seasoned fans of Phish will often roll their eyes and sneer about how obnoxious the fans of Phish are.
Or were at one point in time. And I think this was probably true for that moment in the late nineties when Phish and Blues Traveller and Spin Doctors and Mickey Hart and all the rest were on the road, and when it seemed like jam bands were this cultural zeitgeist - though maybe I'm just projecting my inner experience on the world. But I think that time has passed, and my experience with fans is good evidence of that, I think. I mean, they don't have riots before or after shows anymore. They have learned to deal much more smoothly with the way things work in the lots. Their stages are managed much better now. And in general, I think a lot of the hangers-on that caused so many problems back then have chilled out a bit.
But even though things have gotten better, people just remember some one experience they had with a Phish fan years ago, or more likely remember something they heard from a Phish fan about the more annoying fans - and they stick with that archetype as "the typical Phish fan."
posted by koeselitz at 10:09 PM on February 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
Historiologically, the amazingly ubiquitous hatred of Phish fans is generally based on herd instinct and a pretty small experience people seem to have of them. Having known a lot of fans and knowing some about the history of the band I think it's fair to say that there was a moment when the fans got to be too much - some time in the late 90s and early 00s, when even the band was pretty much overwhelmed by the onslaught of fame and the unexpected sensation of being surrounded by anonymous partying people all the time - which, contrary to popular belief, was not the band's natural habitat before that time.
A lot of people who actually care about the band - well, devoted fans in general - are aware of this; which creates a funny situation: seasoned fans of Phish will often roll their eyes and sneer about how obnoxious the fans of Phish are.
Or were at one point in time. And I think this was probably true for that moment in the late nineties when Phish and Blues Traveller and Spin Doctors and Mickey Hart and all the rest were on the road, and when it seemed like jam bands were this cultural zeitgeist - though maybe I'm just projecting my inner experience on the world. But I think that time has passed, and my experience with fans is good evidence of that, I think. I mean, they don't have riots before or after shows anymore. They have learned to deal much more smoothly with the way things work in the lots. Their stages are managed much better now. And in general, I think a lot of the hangers-on that caused so many problems back then have chilled out a bit.
But even though things have gotten better, people just remember some one experience they had with a Phish fan years ago, or more likely remember something they heard from a Phish fan about the more annoying fans - and they stick with that archetype as "the typical Phish fan."
posted by koeselitz at 10:09 PM on February 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
I have to admit, any band that crashes into 'rhapsody in blue' as a sort of in-joke complementing the song's lyrics would get my seal of approval, even if I end up hitting the forward button fifteen minutes into a song pretty often.
posted by winna at 10:11 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by winna at 10:11 PM on February 2, 2012
I really like their cover of Oh Sweet Nuthin.
posted by Ad hominem at 10:12 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by Ad hominem at 10:12 PM on February 2, 2012
weedle deedle doodly doodly doooo, dwee dwee dweeeeeeee, beedle deedle deedle deep, dop, doop
posted by not_on_display at 10:17 PM on February 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by not_on_display at 10:17 PM on February 2, 2012 [6 favorites]
So, bardic, there's this band you don't like, and you linked to two completely vapid articles about how they suck and people who like the band you don't like are stupid for liking them.
I don't like Phish either, but I did know a really, really smart woman who was really into Phish. So, yeah, it's totally possible for somebody I think is smart and admire to like music I don't get at all. I'm pretty sure there's music I like that you don't like and think is stupid (though it's not Phish). I'm pretty sure all of us like some kind of music you think is stupid.
There is something in the guidelines about linking to things other people might find interesting ...
posted by nangar at 10:22 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't like Phish either, but I did know a really, really smart woman who was really into Phish. So, yeah, it's totally possible for somebody I think is smart and admire to like music I don't get at all. I'm pretty sure there's music I like that you don't like and think is stupid (though it's not Phish). I'm pretty sure all of us like some kind of music you think is stupid.
There is something in the guidelines about linking to things other people might find interesting ...
posted by nangar at 10:22 PM on February 2, 2012 [2 favorites]
I love Phish. They are an incredibly silly, fun band that are not afraid to try stupid and new things. A short list of which includes: playing a game of chess against their fans over the course of a tour, inventing a series of "secret" musical cues to interact with their audience, releasing giant beach balls from the stage as a visual aid to improvisation, flying onto the stage in a giant hotdog, Halloween musical "costumes", a 7 hour set to mark Y2K, horrible barber shop singing, trampolines, instrument-trading during songs, extended vacuum cleaner solos which amounted to nothing but a dude in goggles and a dress making mouth noises into the microphone ... and that's just off the top of my head.
Anyways, the podcast is hilarious and there's nothing mean spirited about it at all. Scott Aukerman seemed to have a great time, and I quite enjoyed how much more fucked up he sounded as the show progressed, despite his constant repetition of "I'm not high!"
posted by Lorin at 10:32 PM on February 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
Anyways, the podcast is hilarious and there's nothing mean spirited about it at all. Scott Aukerman seemed to have a great time, and I quite enjoyed how much more fucked up he sounded as the show progressed, despite his constant repetition of "I'm not high!"
posted by Lorin at 10:32 PM on February 2, 2012 [3 favorites]
"... and he's been to at least 200 Phish concerts."
"Psh, try 308."
Hah! They made a funny about a Phish fan on tonight's episode of Parks & Rec.
Note the both the guy's name and who he was played by...
posted by kmz at 10:54 PM on February 2, 2012
"Psh, try 308."
Hah! They made a funny about a Phish fan on tonight's episode of Parks & Rec.
Note the both the guy's name and who he was played by...
posted by kmz at 10:54 PM on February 2, 2012
God I love Earwolf so darn much.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:06 PM on February 2, 2012
posted by Senor Cardgage at 11:06 PM on February 2, 2012
What did the Phish fan say when he sobered up? Dude, this band sucks.
What do you say to a Phish fan? No, I don't have any spare change.
That used to be a deadhead joke I heard when I lived in Haight-Ashbury.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:01 AM on February 3, 2012
What do you say to a Phish fan? No, I don't have any spare change.
That used to be a deadhead joke I heard when I lived in Haight-Ashbury.
posted by charlie don't surf at 12:01 AM on February 3, 2012
Even if you don't enjoy Phish's music, you have to respect the way they do business. While the RIAA (which encompasses a great deal of the music supposedly "intelligent" people listen to) is busy trying to censor the internet, Phish is putting up each concert they do within a day on LivePhish.com in FLAC and mp3 and donating a portion of the profits to their charitable foundation. They have always been supportive of tapers, and allow virtually every concert they've ever performed to be freely distributed. I would say liking a band which focuses foremost on the live concert experience rather than creating a hit single and operates (at this point) entirely outside of the mainstream music industry is actually a pretty intelligent choice.
posted by Dr. Christ at 12:05 AM on February 3, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Dr. Christ at 12:05 AM on February 3, 2012 [3 favorites]
What did the Phish fan say when he sobered up? Dude, this band sucks.
I'm definitely flashing back, but context seems to have shifted ...
What did the Deadhead say to the other Deadhead when the drugs wore off?
- These guys suck.
... to which I must add, I've had moments when I LOVED THE DEAD, and not always whilst off on some lysergic adventure ... though it's hard to argue with the right version of Dark Star at the Right Time.
posted by philip-random at 12:20 AM on February 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm definitely flashing back, but context seems to have shifted ...
What did the Deadhead say to the other Deadhead when the drugs wore off?
- These guys suck.
... to which I must add, I've had moments when I LOVED THE DEAD, and not always whilst off on some lysergic adventure ... though it's hard to argue with the right version of Dark Star at the Right Time.
posted by philip-random at 12:20 AM on February 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
Man, Phish on Metafilter is always a bust, and it's always the same sad conversation over & over again. God knows I've tried. What I don't get is the mad hate people seem to have for Phish fans. Guess it's a superpowered version of Your favorite band sucks, i.e., if you love it that much, it must really suck. I still allow myself the occasional daydream about the culture at large waking up to how inventive, adventurous, exciting, and satisfying a band Phish is -- but those of us following their every move are almost certainly much better off the way it is.
posted by muckster at 2:17 AM on February 3, 2012
posted by muckster at 2:17 AM on February 3, 2012
Hah! They made a funny about a Phish fan on tonight's episode of Parks & Rec.
That was Harris Wittels himself playing the Phish fan.
posted by aldurtregi at 2:28 AM on February 3, 2012
That was Harris Wittels himself playing the Phish fan.
posted by aldurtregi at 2:28 AM on February 3, 2012
LA Weekly article is weak as fuck. Skipping the podcast for some Coventry glide.
posted by rare_g at 2:48 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rare_g at 2:48 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Remember when Carrie Brownstein tried to get into Phish?
So, in conclusion, do I love Phish? No, or not yet. But I might after seeing the band live. Do I like Phish? Yes, I think I do. Was it was worth it to immerse myself in one band's world for a week? Of course. And I certainly think I was able to let go of a lot of the fan stereotypes. You know, the seaweed-dancing, dogs-on-ropes, acid-in-burrito assumptions that I used to make. Along the way, I met some great people, and I'm the owner of about 30 Phish CDs, some of which I'll continue to listen to after taking a break from Phish's music for a while.posted by muckster at 2:55 AM on February 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
By the creator of Instapaper, an Intro to Phish, if you're interested in reading a little about how to try listening to the band for the first time.
posted by knile at 3:27 AM on February 3, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by knile at 3:27 AM on February 3, 2012 [4 favorites]
Phish is one of those bands where, as a young twentysomething who never heard a thing about Phish growing up, the reputation their fans have is somewhat hilariously juxtaposed with the actual sound of Phish's music. Cos Phish is super cartoony and fun, and always trying to do something new or interesting with their music. They're a bunch of geeks. When Trey Anastasio had that interview in The Believer where he talked about studying Bach and fugues for a year, he sounded like a guy who just loved the heck out of music, and larnin', and was happy to have a band that loved music and new things as much as he did.
So when I hear that Phish fans have a reputation for doing massive drugs and rioting, I just have to giggle. Who the hell would want to riot after listening to Phish music? Their stuff sounds like something I'd quote Monty Python along with. The only person I occasionally talk to who's a big Phish fan (other than koeselitz, above) is Marco Arment, who programmed Instapaper and is awesomely nerdy.
Is the issue just that some people have no self-control and ruin everything? Maybe that's as true for people who love jam bands as it is for, like, politicians and business majors.
posted by Rory Marinich at 3:33 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
So when I hear that Phish fans have a reputation for doing massive drugs and rioting, I just have to giggle. Who the hell would want to riot after listening to Phish music? Their stuff sounds like something I'd quote Monty Python along with. The only person I occasionally talk to who's a big Phish fan (other than koeselitz, above) is Marco Arment, who programmed Instapaper and is awesomely nerdy.
Is the issue just that some people have no self-control and ruin everything? Maybe that's as true for people who love jam bands as it is for, like, politicians and business majors.
posted by Rory Marinich at 3:33 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, Werner Herzog's appearance on the episode with Zach Galfianakis and Yo La Tengo blew me away. He is so funny!
I have some terrible news.
posted by EmGeeJay at 3:34 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wait, who said anything about riots? Phish lot is a party scene for sure but riots? I don't think that ever happened. The Dead had a couple of gate crashing incidents but that's about it.
posted by muckster at 3:42 AM on February 3, 2012
posted by muckster at 3:42 AM on February 3, 2012
The Dead had their moments, but Phish do nothing for me.
posted by jonmc at 4:49 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 4:49 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Intelligence", however you measure that slippery substance, has very little to do with "taste", however you measure that equally tricky stuff.
Not only are they unrelated to an extreme, both change drastically with respect to a lifetime of exposure to new experiences.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:58 AM on February 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
Not only are they unrelated to an extreme, both change drastically with respect to a lifetime of exposure to new experiences.
posted by clvrmnky at 5:58 AM on February 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
I *want* to like Phish a whole lot more than I can, but I can't get over the whole Mike Gordon incident at Jones Beach, and despite the outward public resolution of the thing, I don't buy the narrative, and even the 'official' explanation leaves me too creeped out to overlook it. That means every time I see Gordon, I go 'ewwwww', and since the band still associates with him, that makes me go 'ewwww' about people who support Gordon.
posted by mikelieman at 6:18 AM on February 3, 2012
posted by mikelieman at 6:18 AM on February 3, 2012
Phish was my first taste of improvised music, and so I loved them for a time, but then I discovered jazz and subsequently stopped listening to Phish. I recently saw them in concert because, hey, they were at Outside Lands and I was gonna be there anyway, so I was like, why not? To my "more mature ears", my impression was that Phish is a truly astronomical band; you absolutely cannot argue with that level of musicianship -- and I say that as someone who has performed both improvisational music and improv comedy. Those guys really really know how to support each other. And that thing they're doing? It's fucking hard -- like really fucking hard. Most of the jambands suck and have zero redeeming value, but Phish, I gotta give it to them, those guys are consummate professionals. HOWEVER, what kinda killed it for me is how little effort they put into their songs. And to me, it's just baffling. I mean, to put that much work into your musicianship, and waste it on lyrics like "says she wants to be a sociologist, but she better first get checked by a neurologist"? Like, WTF? Seriously? This is what happens when your let your college buddy who "always says funny shit when he's on shrooms" write your lyrics. I'm convinced this is the reason that the Dead will always have a place in the rock canon -- even winning respect from some Pitchforkers -- but Phish never will. They couldn't write a song to save their lives. Also, I get kinda tired of Trey's guitar sound that he uses for every song. It's like a mid-70s take on Hendrix or something. But I'm a drummer and not a guitarist, so I can't describe in precise language exactly what it is about it that wears me out.
In the end, I really enjoyed getting to see them again, but I don't find myself pulling them up on Spotify like I do with the Dead on at least a bi-monthly basis. But congrats to Trey on getting clean, the band was really tight when I saw them, truly top-form, one of the best Phish shows I've ever seen.
Actually, I do kinda feel like an alt-rock festival was one of the best places to see Phish, simply because it WASN'T a Phish show. It allowed me to momentarily reconceptiualize the band as a sort of "what if they'd never been cast as an heir apparent to the Dead, and instead were just this sorta weird alt rock band you saw whenever they came through town". And really, I think it's kind of a shame that DIDN'T happen. Because they really are a good band, and don't even deserve 1% of the hate they get because they're loved by collegiate hackeysack players.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:30 AM on February 3, 2012 [16 favorites]
In the end, I really enjoyed getting to see them again, but I don't find myself pulling them up on Spotify like I do with the Dead on at least a bi-monthly basis. But congrats to Trey on getting clean, the band was really tight when I saw them, truly top-form, one of the best Phish shows I've ever seen.
Actually, I do kinda feel like an alt-rock festival was one of the best places to see Phish, simply because it WASN'T a Phish show. It allowed me to momentarily reconceptiualize the band as a sort of "what if they'd never been cast as an heir apparent to the Dead, and instead were just this sorta weird alt rock band you saw whenever they came through town". And really, I think it's kind of a shame that DIDN'T happen. Because they really are a good band, and don't even deserve 1% of the hate they get because they're loved by collegiate hackeysack players.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:30 AM on February 3, 2012 [16 favorites]
That was a great analysis, Afroblanco, and I agree 100%.
what kinda killed it for me is how little effort they put into their songs.
I agree and think this was always true. They seemed nerdily jokey and clever when they were new to me and my cohort, but in retrospect, the lyrical content fails to have a longer life because they really weren't serious about it. It's got humor, wordplay, assonance and all that stuff, but there's pretty much zero emotional or narrative content to the songs beyond the mood they set. I think they just were not that interested in the verbal communicative power of songs, only the sounds of the words.
posted by Miko at 8:27 AM on February 3, 2012
what kinda killed it for me is how little effort they put into their songs.
I agree and think this was always true. They seemed nerdily jokey and clever when they were new to me and my cohort, but in retrospect, the lyrical content fails to have a longer life because they really weren't serious about it. It's got humor, wordplay, assonance and all that stuff, but there's pretty much zero emotional or narrative content to the songs beyond the mood they set. I think they just were not that interested in the verbal communicative power of songs, only the sounds of the words.
posted by Miko at 8:27 AM on February 3, 2012
Afroblanco: “... what kinda killed it for me is how little effort they put into their songs. And to me, it's just baffling. I mean, to put that much work into your musicianship, and waste it on lyrics like ‘says she wants to be a sociologist, but she better first get checked by a neurologist’? Like, WTF? Seriously? This is what happens when your let your college buddy who ‘always says funny shit when he's on shrooms’ write your lyrics.”
For what it's worth, that college buddy, who happened to have written the lyric you quote and also many of Phish's other early songs, is Steve Pollak, better known by his ridiculous stage moniker as "The Dude Of Life." There are Phish fans who are annoyed by him, too.
I have to say, though, that as far as rock music goes, the Grateful Dead seem to me to be the exception, not the rule. Lyrics to rock music are usually stupid. Phish is a group that's generally made peace with that fact – maybe too much peace at times, I grant – and have just decided to concentrate on the music, not the lyrics.
And I think on a certain level that's okay. I really like Can, too, but I don't exactly expect some kind of lyrical depth from them.
Personally, I really like Phish, and can listen to them for a long time, but I do feel like their talent is kind of wasted to a certain degree. I don't think this is because of the lyrics, either. They work hard, but there's a certain sense in which they keep their songs silly in order to avoid having to do the seriously difficult stuff I think they know they're capable of. They're almost like this jazz band that plays rock because that happens to be a bit easier, if that makes sense. Still, there's room for a lot of light-heartedness in the world, and there are times when they can touch on some truly ethereal beauty in their light-hearted way, so I am still all for them.
posted by koeselitz at 8:36 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
For what it's worth, that college buddy, who happened to have written the lyric you quote and also many of Phish's other early songs, is Steve Pollak, better known by his ridiculous stage moniker as "The Dude Of Life." There are Phish fans who are annoyed by him, too.
I have to say, though, that as far as rock music goes, the Grateful Dead seem to me to be the exception, not the rule. Lyrics to rock music are usually stupid. Phish is a group that's generally made peace with that fact – maybe too much peace at times, I grant – and have just decided to concentrate on the music, not the lyrics.
And I think on a certain level that's okay. I really like Can, too, but I don't exactly expect some kind of lyrical depth from them.
Personally, I really like Phish, and can listen to them for a long time, but I do feel like their talent is kind of wasted to a certain degree. I don't think this is because of the lyrics, either. They work hard, but there's a certain sense in which they keep their songs silly in order to avoid having to do the seriously difficult stuff I think they know they're capable of. They're almost like this jazz band that plays rock because that happens to be a bit easier, if that makes sense. Still, there's room for a lot of light-heartedness in the world, and there are times when they can touch on some truly ethereal beauty in their light-hearted way, so I am still all for them.
posted by koeselitz at 8:36 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
I meant to say: the Dude of Life is justly reviled because he's done a few things that are well and truly horrifically bad, and even when his songs aren't bad, they're almost always pretty stupid lyrically.
posted by koeselitz at 8:42 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by koeselitz at 8:42 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
The majority of their lyrical output is certainly lacking but there are exceptions. I particularly like Brian and Robert and Wading In The Velvet Sea from the same album.
posted by Sailormom at 8:50 AM on February 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Sailormom at 8:50 AM on February 3, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think the goofiness of much of the early material is probably a direct reaction to the overly lyrical style of Robert Hunter. Phish aren't sixties flower power hippies but knowing kids from the Eighties suburbs, and I suspect that the goofiness was supposed to cover up how serious they were about the music. What matters isn't that lyrically, "Tweezer" is built around a bunch of idiotic rhymes, it's that a great "Tweezer" can be every bit as awesome as a "Dark Star" -- without being called "Dark Star."
Besides, their catalog is so large at this point -- about 800 songs, counting covers -- that you can find absolutely anything. There's plenty of original tunes with "emotional and narrative content," especially the more recent material. For instance, just looking at the official video feed, I don't think there's anything silly about "Back on the Train" or "Joy," which is about Trey's late sister.
posted by muckster at 9:02 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Besides, their catalog is so large at this point -- about 800 songs, counting covers -- that you can find absolutely anything. There's plenty of original tunes with "emotional and narrative content," especially the more recent material. For instance, just looking at the official video feed, I don't think there's anything silly about "Back on the Train" or "Joy," which is about Trey's late sister.
posted by muckster at 9:02 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
I really like Can , too, but I don't exactly expect some kind of lyrical depth from them.
Please don't compare Phish to Can, because ... ummm, Can are better ... in every conceivable way (although I did love that moment muckster linked to). And Damo Suzuki's lyrics may be incomprehensible but they're not DUMB. He was after all (when in Can) a Japanese man in an extreme German counterculture crowd trying to communicate in English. The result was a sort of elevated, psychedelic Esperanto that, in many cases, makes the songs because it deepens their mystery ... amplifies their beautiful strangeness.
But I am enjoying this thread, so much so that I dug up some of that IT stuff I was referring to earlier.
The Famous Tower Jam
posted by philip-random at 9:17 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Please don't compare Phish to Can, because ... ummm, Can are better ... in every conceivable way (although I did love that moment muckster linked to). And Damo Suzuki's lyrics may be incomprehensible but they're not DUMB. He was after all (when in Can) a Japanese man in an extreme German counterculture crowd trying to communicate in English. The result was a sort of elevated, psychedelic Esperanto that, in many cases, makes the songs because it deepens their mystery ... amplifies their beautiful strangeness.
But I am enjoying this thread, so much so that I dug up some of that IT stuff I was referring to earlier.
The Famous Tower Jam
posted by philip-random at 9:17 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Phish is the Ayn Rand of bands -- they actually appeal to a certain type of young brainiac, but hopefully you outgrow them.
posted by msalt at 9:19 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by msalt at 9:19 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Where does that put Rush?
posted by philip-random at 9:21 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 9:21 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Tower Jam is still one of the greatest things I've ever seen. There's a video of the whole thing on YouTube as well. This was what, 2am on an abandoned military airport in Maine, and a complete surprise.
posted by muckster at 9:24 AM on February 3, 2012
posted by muckster at 9:24 AM on February 3, 2012
The Grateful Dead comparison is interesting. Both played up the sobriety-free-zone thing while the band itself had drug problems, and developed hateful missionary fans.
Phish adds a lot of show-off musicianship and stagecraft, they really know how to put on a show in a non-cliched way, but as Miko and Afroblanco noted, they are terrible songwriters. They also lack heart or empathy, in any way I can see, compared to, say, Garcia singing "Wharf Rat."
The other thing is that, for all their chops, I don't see Phish doing anything new with their music. The Dead were very experimental in 68-70, and moved the ball forward in country-rock from 70-72, and did that great collective improv thing 68-72 (some would say through 77). But I have never heard a musician say, check out this new thing Phish is doing, let's explore that.
posted by msalt at 9:30 AM on February 3, 2012
Phish adds a lot of show-off musicianship and stagecraft, they really know how to put on a show in a non-cliched way, but as Miko and Afroblanco noted, they are terrible songwriters. They also lack heart or empathy, in any way I can see, compared to, say, Garcia singing "Wharf Rat."
The other thing is that, for all their chops, I don't see Phish doing anything new with their music. The Dead were very experimental in 68-70, and moved the ball forward in country-rock from 70-72, and did that great collective improv thing 68-72 (some would say through 77). But I have never heard a musician say, check out this new thing Phish is doing, let's explore that.
posted by msalt at 9:30 AM on February 3, 2012
Ah, see, I wish I'd left the thread before the wholesale Dead comparisons, but here we are. For my money, a good "Slave" or "Hood" carries just as much emotion as "Wharf Rat" or "Stella Blue" -- and I love Garcia. And I don't know/care what "musicians" say, but Phish always keeps reinventing the music. For instance, 2011 saw the emergence of "plinko" and "storage" jamming; there hasn't been anything that sounded like the MSG "Piper" until this year.
Oh, and Trey played and recorded with The National, which is an odd indie crossover thing. Apparently, he's one of their heroes. I'm very curious to see how the collaboration will turn out.
posted by muckster at 10:00 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh, and Trey played and recorded with The National, which is an odd indie crossover thing. Apparently, he's one of their heroes. I'm very curious to see how the collaboration will turn out.
posted by muckster at 10:00 AM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
Phish is the Ayn Rand of bands -- they actually appeal to a certain type of young brainiac, but hopefully you outgrow them.
phillip-random: Where does that put Rush?
Same thing, very different demographic.
posted by msalt at 12:50 PM on February 3, 2012
phillip-random: Where does that put Rush?
Same thing, very different demographic.
posted by msalt at 12:50 PM on February 3, 2012
muckster: “I think the goofiness of much of the early material is probably a direct reaction to the overly lyrical style of Robert Hunter.”
I disagree, but only because I don't think the early years of Phish had anything whatsoever to do with the Grateful Dead. That connection has been played up a lot, I know, but it really didn't occur to anybody until around 1990, I don't think.
posted by koeselitz at 2:38 PM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
I disagree, but only because I don't think the early years of Phish had anything whatsoever to do with the Grateful Dead. That connection has been played up a lot, I know, but it really didn't occur to anybody until around 1990, I don't think.
posted by koeselitz at 2:38 PM on February 3, 2012 [1 favorite]
recently saw them in concert because, hey, they were at Outside Lands and I was gonna be there anyway
I was going to say, "Yeah well the Shins were playing at the same time and you missed out!" but then I thought for a second and actually you didn't miss out on anything, what with the entire crowd at that stage chattering loudly and bro-ishly the whole time with a brief few minutes of interruption from squealing girls announcing that "OMG YOU GUYS THIS IS THE GARDEN STATE SONG." Should have faced the hippie hordes and seen Phish instead.
Anyway... I know a group of Phishheads (my sister's boyfriend and his friends). They are educated and successful professionals (but of decidedly varying levels of what I would consider intellect) who also spend a whole lot of money on concert tickets and drugs (of all varieties). I don't think it's really my scene, but I do sort of like Wading in the Velvet Sea and a few other songs.
posted by naoko at 2:45 PM on February 3, 2012
I was going to say, "Yeah well the Shins were playing at the same time and you missed out!" but then I thought for a second and actually you didn't miss out on anything, what with the entire crowd at that stage chattering loudly and bro-ishly the whole time with a brief few minutes of interruption from squealing girls announcing that "OMG YOU GUYS THIS IS THE GARDEN STATE SONG." Should have faced the hippie hordes and seen Phish instead.
Anyway... I know a group of Phishheads (my sister's boyfriend and his friends). They are educated and successful professionals (but of decidedly varying levels of what I would consider intellect) who also spend a whole lot of money on concert tickets and drugs (of all varieties). I don't think it's really my scene, but I do sort of like Wading in the Velvet Sea and a few other songs.
posted by naoko at 2:45 PM on February 3, 2012
koeselitz: I don't think the early years of Phish had anything whatsoever to do with the Grateful Dead.
In the very early days, they actually used to play Dead songs. For instance, Eyes of the World in 1984: "Phish debuted this cover at one of their first shows billed as “Phish,” performing a passable version that segued interestingly into the Allman Brothers’ “Whipping Post.” ... Then at Page’s first show on 5/3/85, the song segued out of the Dead’s “Scarlet Begonias.”" There's also Bertha in 84, The Other One in 85, and Help on the Way > Slipknot! and St. Stephen in 86.
I figure at some point early on they made a conscious decision to distance themselves from the Dead and didn't touch any of that material or pay overt tribute until the "Terrapin Station" bustout on Jerry's birthday in 98. Since then, sit-ins with Bobby, Phil, and Billy as well as Trey and Page playing regularly with Phil and Friends have made the connection very much explicit.
posted by muckster at 1:30 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
In the very early days, they actually used to play Dead songs. For instance, Eyes of the World in 1984: "Phish debuted this cover at one of their first shows billed as “Phish,” performing a passable version that segued interestingly into the Allman Brothers’ “Whipping Post.” ... Then at Page’s first show on 5/3/85, the song segued out of the Dead’s “Scarlet Begonias.”" There's also Bertha in 84, The Other One in 85, and Help on the Way > Slipknot! and St. Stephen in 86.
I figure at some point early on they made a conscious decision to distance themselves from the Dead and didn't touch any of that material or pay overt tribute until the "Terrapin Station" bustout on Jerry's birthday in 98. Since then, sit-ins with Bobby, Phil, and Billy as well as Trey and Page playing regularly with Phil and Friends have made the connection very much explicit.
posted by muckster at 1:30 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
Great bit on Portlandia last night, on the subject of your favorite band sucking.
posted by msalt at 11:48 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by msalt at 11:48 AM on February 4, 2012 [1 favorite]
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