why is Guante so angry? it's a rhetorical question
February 11, 2012 11:04 AM Subscribe
10 Responses To The Phrase "Man Up" (transcript here). More spoken word and rap by Guante: Handshakes. Neutral: An Open Letter To Michele Bachmann. Love In The Time Of Zombies. Confessions Of A White Rapper. A Prayer For Indie Rappers.
Spoken Word: Where true things (and other things that *feel* true) are delivered with the ever-so-slightly husky sanctimanliness of Jerry Maguire mixed with Ezekiel 25:17.
posted by belarius at 12:05 PM on February 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by belarius at 12:05 PM on February 11, 2012 [5 favorites]
I’m pretty sure that, of all the beers in the world, Miller Lite… is not the most flavorful brew. It kind of tastes like… whatever insecure jackass wrote these “man up” commercials got rejected by a beautiful, no-nonsense bartender, drank a six pack of REAL beer alone in his apartment, and then Miller bottled his tears
Sounds about right.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:10 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sounds about right.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 12:10 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Sorta seems to me that people who dismiss slam poetry based just on the delivery are doing what they're also usually accusing it of: focusing on form over content.
I mean, yeah, he's totally using Slam Voice (which, if I had my way, would somehow get you an automatic 0.5 deduction). But at least he's using it for good and not evil.
posted by Mike Smith at 12:15 PM on February 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I mean, yeah, he's totally using Slam Voice (which, if I had my way, would somehow get you an automatic 0.5 deduction). But at least he's using it for good and not evil.
posted by Mike Smith at 12:15 PM on February 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
I also don't like when Shakesperean actors use English accents. HAMLET IS DANISH!
Or maybe specific forms of performance have their own presentational tropes.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:18 PM on February 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Or maybe specific forms of performance have their own presentational tropes.
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 12:18 PM on February 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
The phrase for Miller Lite should be Canoe hump.
Because it's fucking close to water.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:21 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Because it's fucking close to water.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:21 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Loved the message in the first linked poem, but (maybe this marks me provincial) poetry with such unpoetic language and no nods to verse just falls dead-flat. Sounds like a rant. And beyond that the imagery is just trite (although it's perhaps the most appropriate treatment of a worthless cliche).
posted by TypographicalError at 12:27 PM on February 11, 2012
posted by TypographicalError at 12:27 PM on February 11, 2012
Then why not "camel hump"?
posted by DU at 12:27 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 12:27 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's labelled "spoken word", not slam poetry or rap (he does other pieces with those labels), so I wasn't expecting more wordplay/verse? Spoken word can get ranty - I'm used to Henry Rollins.
posted by flex at 12:42 PM on February 11, 2012
posted by flex at 12:42 PM on February 11, 2012
Sorta seems to me that people who dismiss slam poetry based just on the delivery...
Yeah, I gotta admit the angry voice thing turns me off a bit, but I guess it goes with the feeling of the words. Maybe I'll just have to harden up and give it another try. : )
posted by orme at 12:45 PM on February 11, 2012
Yeah, I gotta admit the angry voice thing turns me off a bit, but I guess it goes with the feeling of the words. Maybe I'll just have to harden up and give it another try. : )
posted by orme at 12:45 PM on February 11, 2012
FTA.
"You ever notice how nobody ever says “woman up?” They just imply it. Because women and the women's movement figured out a long time ago that being directly ordered around by commercials, magazines and music is dehumanizing. When will men figure that out?"
I figured it out a while ago but was surprised to learn many of my fellow men had not. Case in point, last year here in Australia KFC introduced The Double Burger, a heinous monstrosity that eschewed bread for chicken whilst jamming several pieces of bacon and cheese in-between them. It was the sort of thing you'd try only if curious, and even then, only if suicidal.
KFCs marketing for the burger was aimed directly at men. Although the direct marketing line has been lost to me now, the implication was that if you could eat a Double Burger, you were a man.
I couldn't believe that anyone would fall for that shit but one day, as I enjoyed my salad in the food court, a bunch of male teens nearby me where scoffing down a few Double Burgers. And I mean scoffing. It was a race to see who could finish it first. The one who did finish first said "Woohoo! I'm a man!"
Bill Hicks came to mind. If you're in marketing or advertising, kill yourself. Because you're now trying to kill people with your "be a man, eat really bad food" marketing ploy.
Ironically, I did once try a Double Burger. Because my wife bought one and I thought "I might as well have a bite." I thought it was awful. She finished it all. Does that make her more of a man than me?
Probably.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:12 PM on February 11, 2012
"You ever notice how nobody ever says “woman up?” They just imply it. Because women and the women's movement figured out a long time ago that being directly ordered around by commercials, magazines and music is dehumanizing. When will men figure that out?"
I figured it out a while ago but was surprised to learn many of my fellow men had not. Case in point, last year here in Australia KFC introduced The Double Burger, a heinous monstrosity that eschewed bread for chicken whilst jamming several pieces of bacon and cheese in-between them. It was the sort of thing you'd try only if curious, and even then, only if suicidal.
KFCs marketing for the burger was aimed directly at men. Although the direct marketing line has been lost to me now, the implication was that if you could eat a Double Burger, you were a man.
I couldn't believe that anyone would fall for that shit but one day, as I enjoyed my salad in the food court, a bunch of male teens nearby me where scoffing down a few Double Burgers. And I mean scoffing. It was a race to see who could finish it first. The one who did finish first said "Woohoo! I'm a man!"
Bill Hicks came to mind. If you're in marketing or advertising, kill yourself. Because you're now trying to kill people with your "be a man, eat really bad food" marketing ploy.
Ironically, I did once try a Double Burger. Because my wife bought one and I thought "I might as well have a bite." I thought it was awful. She finished it all. Does that make her more of a man than me?
Probably.
posted by Effigy2000 at 1:12 PM on February 11, 2012
It's labelled "spoken word", not slam poetry
For people who slam, the terms can get kind of muddy. And at least two of the pieces posted were performed at slams. So for convenience I went with "slam poetry," because the alternative was a paragraph of competing terms and their disclaimers about which no one except performance poets would give the faintest of shits.
Anyway, I like some of Guante's stuff, but for poets who perform and have works starting with "Love In a Time of..." & ending with a reference to cataclysm, my money's still on Dave Perez.
posted by Mike Smith at 1:37 PM on February 11, 2012
For people who slam, the terms can get kind of muddy. And at least two of the pieces posted were performed at slams. So for convenience I went with "slam poetry," because the alternative was a paragraph of competing terms and their disclaimers about which no one except performance poets would give the faintest of shits.
Anyway, I like some of Guante's stuff, but for poets who perform and have works starting with "Love In a Time of..." & ending with a reference to cataclysm, my money's still on Dave Perez.
posted by Mike Smith at 1:37 PM on February 11, 2012
"You ever notice how nobody ever says “woman up?” They just imply it. Because women and the women's movement figured out a long time ago that being directly ordered around by commercials, magazines and music is dehumanizing. When will men figure that out?"
I hate any of the phrases and ways of saying someone isn't a "real" man or woman, same goes for those silly "real women have curves" that imply thiner women aren't women because of body type. Whenever i hear "man up" i only hear the person speaking as a homophobe or insecure in their own manhood.
posted by usagizero at 1:45 PM on February 11, 2012
I hate any of the phrases and ways of saying someone isn't a "real" man or woman, same goes for those silly "real women have curves" that imply thiner women aren't women because of body type. Whenever i hear "man up" i only hear the person speaking as a homophobe or insecure in their own manhood.
posted by usagizero at 1:45 PM on February 11, 2012
Oh, I wasn't responding to you, Mike Smith - I was responding to TypographicalError; they were clearly expecting something different from the first link and so I was attempting to clarify.
posted by flex at 1:53 PM on February 11, 2012
posted by flex at 1:53 PM on February 11, 2012
In a fight between Miller Light and spoken word, we all lose.
posted by planet at 2:22 PM on February 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by planet at 2:22 PM on February 11, 2012 [2 favorites]
Interestingly, I actually did arm wrestle my way out of chemical depression. Just sayin'.
posted by Decani at 2:40 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Decani at 2:40 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
Then why not "camel hump"?
Pfft, like I'm clever enough to come up with that on the first go.
Interestingly, I actually did arm wrestle my way out of chemical depression. Just sayin'.
Me too. With the help of banjo music and dolphin porn.
Neutral: An Open Letter to Michele Bachmann
Why wouldn't anyone not be pissed off at Michele Bachmann?
...any man who doesn’t eat steak, drive a pickup truck, have lots of sex with women and otherwise conform to gender norms absolutely—are nothing more than, background characters and props in a movie where the strong, stoic, REAL man is the hero.
I eat steak, drive a pickup (and a jeep), have lots of sex, plenty of physical power, can't remember the last time I cried. I get five o'clock shadow at 8 A.M. twenty minutes after I shave. My voice is a deep baritone, I have muscles, I wear a black leather duster on fall days when I ride my thunderous engined motorcycle.
I can't wear skinny jeans because my thighs are too big and I rip the crotch out of all my jeans from testicular friction anyway.
...I do have deep meaningful relationships with other men, we just don't have the words so to outsiders it looks like we're ruefully smirking at each other instead of reaffirming the depth of our connection.
Guys like us exist. I mean, I am just being me, not some caricature. Where it goes off the rails is equating masculinity with some commercial b.s. or people trying to get you to live some way other than how you want. Which, yeah, actually, is everything.
I get how this (and other examples) are from people who feel marginalized. Who want to listen to Lady Gaga, etc. Who are offended by people demanding that masculinity be a certain thing and that their manhood is not genuine because it's not the balls out hard core jacked up version.
But I have to say, as someone who lives on that end of the spectrum - as weird as it is for some of y'all - and I'm not saying it sucks more because plenty of people get handed loads more unnecessary grief and pain, so absolutely not that at all, but - it is even WEIRDER seeing oblique parodies of yourself all over the place.
It's like living in the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Everyone is trying to conform, except it's to you. And worse - it's like an inflated misshapen parody of you.
I read "Sandman" by Neil Gaiman. He creates this creature "The Corinthian" who is a caricature of humanity as seen through a dark mirror. You see your reflection in the mirror. It's you. It's your image - but it's slightly distorted.
Then suddenly it smiles on its own and moves independent of you.
Exactly like that.
Plus they're trying to sell beer and oppress people with it.
Sorta like how Buddhists and American Natives feel about the whole Swastika thing.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:09 PM on February 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
Pfft, like I'm clever enough to come up with that on the first go.
Interestingly, I actually did arm wrestle my way out of chemical depression. Just sayin'.
Me too. With the help of banjo music and dolphin porn.
Neutral: An Open Letter to Michele Bachmann
Why wouldn't anyone not be pissed off at Michele Bachmann?
...any man who doesn’t eat steak, drive a pickup truck, have lots of sex with women and otherwise conform to gender norms absolutely—are nothing more than, background characters and props in a movie where the strong, stoic, REAL man is the hero.
I eat steak, drive a pickup (and a jeep), have lots of sex, plenty of physical power, can't remember the last time I cried. I get five o'clock shadow at 8 A.M. twenty minutes after I shave. My voice is a deep baritone, I have muscles, I wear a black leather duster on fall days when I ride my thunderous engined motorcycle.
I can't wear skinny jeans because my thighs are too big and I rip the crotch out of all my jeans from testicular friction anyway.
...I do have deep meaningful relationships with other men, we just don't have the words so to outsiders it looks like we're ruefully smirking at each other instead of reaffirming the depth of our connection.
Guys like us exist. I mean, I am just being me, not some caricature. Where it goes off the rails is equating masculinity with some commercial b.s. or people trying to get you to live some way other than how you want. Which, yeah, actually, is everything.
I get how this (and other examples) are from people who feel marginalized. Who want to listen to Lady Gaga, etc. Who are offended by people demanding that masculinity be a certain thing and that their manhood is not genuine because it's not the balls out hard core jacked up version.
But I have to say, as someone who lives on that end of the spectrum - as weird as it is for some of y'all - and I'm not saying it sucks more because plenty of people get handed loads more unnecessary grief and pain, so absolutely not that at all, but - it is even WEIRDER seeing oblique parodies of yourself all over the place.
It's like living in the Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Everyone is trying to conform, except it's to you. And worse - it's like an inflated misshapen parody of you.
I read "Sandman" by Neil Gaiman. He creates this creature "The Corinthian" who is a caricature of humanity as seen through a dark mirror. You see your reflection in the mirror. It's you. It's your image - but it's slightly distorted.
Then suddenly it smiles on its own and moves independent of you.
Exactly like that.
Plus they're trying to sell beer and oppress people with it.
Sorta like how Buddhists and American Natives feel about the whole Swastika thing.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:09 PM on February 11, 2012 [3 favorites]
When I'm watchin' my T.V.
And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a Man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me
I can't get no...
posted by WhackyparseThis at 3:36 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
And that man comes on to tell me
How white my shirts can be
But he can't be a Man 'cause he doesn't smoke
The same cigarettes as me
I can't get no...
posted by WhackyparseThis at 3:36 PM on February 11, 2012 [1 favorite]
When's a man a man?
What makes a man a man?
Am I a man?
Yes. Technically I am.
posted by scose at 3:40 PM on February 11, 2012
(That link was supposed to point here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLEK0UZH4cs&t=1m14s)
posted by scose at 3:42 PM on February 11, 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLEK0UZH4cs&t=1m14s)
posted by scose at 3:42 PM on February 11, 2012
My sister and I tell each other to man up. Non-ironically, when something has to be faced and courage is needed. But we've never said it to anyone else, and certainly not to men. Guess it's a dysfunctional family affair. (Hit it, Sly.)
posted by likeso at 4:22 PM on February 11, 2012
posted by likeso at 4:22 PM on February 11, 2012
The only time that I watch live TV is during sports events so most of the only TV commercials that I actually see are for light beer and monster trucks and the only way that they seem to be able to market that shit is to try to insult my manhood. I'm not sure how insulting me is an effective marketing strategy but I'm not going to buy Miller Lite or an F350 either so I guess that they know their markets.
posted by octothorpe at 4:33 PM on February 11, 2012
posted by octothorpe at 4:33 PM on February 11, 2012
I've never verbalized my response to those ads, but I think it would be along the lines of,
"It's 'man up', not 'insecure twelve-year-old boy up'"
I mean, they're selling a version of manhood that's so pathetically juvenile it's hard to take seriously. I put it in the same bucket as the truck doing snowboard tricks in awful CGI, or the anti-gay screed about how gay sex needs to be illegal because otherwise that's all anybody would want to do -- it's a hilarious self-parody right up to the point you realize that maybe it's not.
posted by bjrubble at 4:58 PM on February 11, 2012
"It's 'man up', not 'insecure twelve-year-old boy up'"
I mean, they're selling a version of manhood that's so pathetically juvenile it's hard to take seriously. I put it in the same bucket as the truck doing snowboard tricks in awful CGI, or the anti-gay screed about how gay sex needs to be illegal because otherwise that's all anybody would want to do -- it's a hilarious self-parody right up to the point you realize that maybe it's not.
posted by bjrubble at 4:58 PM on February 11, 2012
I'm not sure how insulting me is an effective marketing strategy
They're negging you.
posted by LogicalDash at 5:23 PM on February 11, 2012
They're negging you.
posted by LogicalDash at 5:23 PM on February 11, 2012
Miserable little pile of secrets up.
posted by LogicalDash at 5:18 AM on February 12, 2012
posted by LogicalDash at 5:18 AM on February 12, 2012
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posted by jiawen at 12:05 PM on February 11, 2012