Syria's War Against Medicine
February 17, 2012 11:01 AM Subscribe
Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders) is reporting relentless aggression by Syrian government forces against wounded demonstators and medical personnel and facilities. Although MSF is not operating in the country, they have collected compelling testimonials.
I thought it more why the US didn't do anything in Bahrain.
posted by narcoleptic at 11:41 AM on February 17, 2012
posted by narcoleptic at 11:41 AM on February 17, 2012
Why aren't we (and by we, I mean the US, Canada, EU, etc) bombing Assad to hell and back?
There's no oil in Syria.
Do the Russians and the Chinese seriously have that big of a stake in his regime?
The sell Syria weapons, and they sell Iran weapons - lots of them. Iran and Syria are closely aligned. China's leadership is by far the most toxic leadership on the planet. Russian leadership is a public private mix of ex-Commie goons like Putin, and sophisticated Russian criminal networks.
Nevertheless, we have to "live with them" and compromise with them, because 1) we are dependent on China for so much technology and industrial production, and Russia has enough nuclear firepower to wipe out humanity.
A recent development is that there is a growing wing of Al Qaida in Syria. Many Al Qaida operatives that were jailed and tortured by Assad through cooperative ventures with the West have recently been released. It has become clear that recent car bombings in Syria have all the earmarks of Al Qaida technique.
Last, keep in mind that Syria has a crapload of chemical weapons - really bad shit that they have an ability to transfer to others, or aggressively use on their own.
Assad and those close to him need to die.
posted by Vibrissae at 12:51 PM on February 17, 2012
There's no oil in Syria.
Do the Russians and the Chinese seriously have that big of a stake in his regime?
The sell Syria weapons, and they sell Iran weapons - lots of them. Iran and Syria are closely aligned. China's leadership is by far the most toxic leadership on the planet. Russian leadership is a public private mix of ex-Commie goons like Putin, and sophisticated Russian criminal networks.
Nevertheless, we have to "live with them" and compromise with them, because 1) we are dependent on China for so much technology and industrial production, and Russia has enough nuclear firepower to wipe out humanity.
A recent development is that there is a growing wing of Al Qaida in Syria. Many Al Qaida operatives that were jailed and tortured by Assad through cooperative ventures with the West have recently been released. It has become clear that recent car bombings in Syria have all the earmarks of Al Qaida technique.
Last, keep in mind that Syria has a crapload of chemical weapons - really bad shit that they have an ability to transfer to others, or aggressively use on their own.
Assad and those close to him need to die.
posted by Vibrissae at 12:51 PM on February 17, 2012
Why aren't we (and by we, I mean the US, Canada, EU, etc) bombing Assad to hell and back?
Instead of lamenting the West passing on a chance to make things better, you can take solace that they also passed on a chance to make things worse.
posted by Copronymus at 12:58 PM on February 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
Instead of lamenting the West passing on a chance to make things better, you can take solace that they also passed on a chance to make things worse.
posted by Copronymus at 12:58 PM on February 17, 2012 [5 favorites]
There's no oil in Syria
Big oil pipeline in Homs just blowed up no matter who's side of the story you believe. Big photo of it on fire if folks don't believe the jew-run liberal media or capitalist running dog propaganda.
Moot point regarding black stuff under the ground. Refineries are a strategic interest.
That said, it's not a bad situation of 'let's you and him fight' for the U.S. The downside is that by not taking an active role we lose political points and humanitarian awards.
But the U.S. pretty much gets it's ass kicked in criticism one way or the other. Send humanitarian aid, you're exploiting. Send troops, you're imperialist. Don't send aid or troops, you're heartless and only initiate conflict over 'x' (resources, brown people, whatever).
Sometimes all you can do is take cover, particularly in a shit-storm.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:24 PM on February 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Big oil pipeline in Homs just blowed up no matter who's side of the story you believe. Big photo of it on fire if folks don't believe the jew-run liberal media or capitalist running dog propaganda.
Moot point regarding black stuff under the ground. Refineries are a strategic interest.
That said, it's not a bad situation of 'let's you and him fight' for the U.S. The downside is that by not taking an active role we lose political points and humanitarian awards.
But the U.S. pretty much gets it's ass kicked in criticism one way or the other. Send humanitarian aid, you're exploiting. Send troops, you're imperialist. Don't send aid or troops, you're heartless and only initiate conflict over 'x' (resources, brown people, whatever).
Sometimes all you can do is take cover, particularly in a shit-storm.
posted by Smedleyman at 1:24 PM on February 17, 2012 [3 favorites]
Syria is a client of the Soviet Union-cum-Russia from way back. Russia even sent its (sole) aircraft carrier from Murmansk to the port of Tartus for a show-the-flag-and-to-hell-with-the-atmospherics visit last month. As a (very loose and sloppy) rule, China and Russia tend to stand together in the UNSC, but one would be right to point to China's no innocent in the "selling arms to unsavory folks" game, either.
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 1:28 PM on February 17, 2012
posted by Emperor SnooKloze at 1:28 PM on February 17, 2012
Volunteers treat wounded Syria protesters: With inadequate facilities and limited supplies, they help those who fear arrest if they go to hospitals.
posted by homunculus at 2:19 PM on February 17, 2012
posted by homunculus at 2:19 PM on February 17, 2012
Syrians in affected regions cut off from aid as violence escalates
posted by homunculus at 2:26 PM on February 17, 2012
posted by homunculus at 2:26 PM on February 17, 2012
this report on homs (map) was chilling...
also see: West offers words, only, as Syria killing rages, Would Arming The Syrians Even Help?, Ctd, Can Anyone Help?
mefi previously: Responsibility to protect?
Anthony Shadid RIP (reminded of tim herrington)
posted by kliuless at 3:24 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
also see: West offers words, only, as Syria killing rages, Would Arming The Syrians Even Help?, Ctd, Can Anyone Help?
mefi previously: Responsibility to protect?
Anthony Shadid RIP (reminded of tim herrington)
posted by kliuless at 3:24 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Why aren't we (and by we, I mean the US, Canada, EU, etc) bombing Assad to hell and back?
I'm hardly defending the Syrian regime, but is it possible that the best solution sometimes might involve not bombing the ever-loving shit out of things? For once?
Heresy, I know. But America has been bombing the ever-loving shit out of countries for like 60 years now, and the track record is looking kinda terrible, you know? It's almost like, when you blow a country's already pretty tattered infrastructure to individual atoms, then expect a withered civil service and totally inchoate democratic element to fill up a decades long-vacuum with next to no resources or money, dozens of sectarian interests, and a host of problems the most stable and democratic government would struggle to cope with, you're pretty much just making different problems not better problems. Or something.
posted by smoke at 4:04 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm hardly defending the Syrian regime, but is it possible that the best solution sometimes might involve not bombing the ever-loving shit out of things? For once?
Heresy, I know. But America has been bombing the ever-loving shit out of countries for like 60 years now, and the track record is looking kinda terrible, you know? It's almost like, when you blow a country's already pretty tattered infrastructure to individual atoms, then expect a withered civil service and totally inchoate democratic element to fill up a decades long-vacuum with next to no resources or money, dozens of sectarian interests, and a host of problems the most stable and democratic government would struggle to cope with, you're pretty much just making different problems not better problems. Or something.
posted by smoke at 4:04 PM on February 17, 2012 [2 favorites]
Well, it's not like Russia and China want the international community to cast a critical eye towards their own abuses of human rights, either.
posted by mollweide at 7:18 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mollweide at 7:18 PM on February 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
What is the strategy here? The Syrian government is horrible. Bombing them will not make them less horrible. There is no alternative government waiting in the wings, no Syrian diaspora full of liberals waiting to free their homeland. If and when the government falls there will be another bloodbath, but this one will be run by the rebels. Each side already portrays the other as Zionist lackeys of the US so they're unlikely to accept an offer of occupation, even if the West were in a position to offer it.
You know how Libya has been out of the news for a while? Have you wondered what things are like now that Gaddafi has gone? From what I hear they're pretty grim. Would we do any better in Syria?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:46 AM on February 18, 2012
You know how Libya has been out of the news for a while? Have you wondered what things are like now that Gaddafi has gone? From what I hear they're pretty grim. Would we do any better in Syria?
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:46 AM on February 18, 2012
Doctors struggle to save wounded children in Homs
posted by homunculus at 7:18 PM on February 21, 2012
posted by homunculus at 7:18 PM on February 21, 2012
er, hetherington...
also see:
Inside the torture chamber of Assad's inquisition squads
The Alawites' Non-Violent Move In Syria
and btw, just to broaden the scope out a bit:
Turkey sticks with Iran oil after Saudi talks (infographic)
The New Kremlinology, Ctd
posted by kliuless at 7:19 PM on February 21, 2012
also see:
Inside the torture chamber of Assad's inquisition squads
The Alawites' Non-Violent Move In Syria
and btw, just to broaden the scope out a bit:
Turkey sticks with Iran oil after Saudi talks (infographic)
The New Kremlinology, Ctd
posted by kliuless at 7:19 PM on February 21, 2012
Iran defiant as U.N. nuclear talks fail - "The U.N. nuclear watchdog ended its latest mission to Iran after talks on Tehran's suspected secret atomic weapons research failed, a setback likely to increase the risk of confrontation with the West."
Assad seeks to bomb Homs into submission, alarms world - "Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces, trying to hammer the city of Homs into submission, on Wednesday killed 19 more people including two Western journalists in an onslaught that has caused an international outcry for intervention to end the bloodshed."
U.S., French journalists killed in Syria - "American correspondent Marie Colvin and French photographer Remi Ochlik were killed in the besieged Syrian city of Homs on Wednesday when rockets fired by government forces hit the house they were staying in, opposition activists and witnesses said."
posted by kliuless at 8:08 AM on February 22, 2012
Assad seeks to bomb Homs into submission, alarms world - "Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces, trying to hammer the city of Homs into submission, on Wednesday killed 19 more people including two Western journalists in an onslaught that has caused an international outcry for intervention to end the bloodshed."
U.S., French journalists killed in Syria - "American correspondent Marie Colvin and French photographer Remi Ochlik were killed in the besieged Syrian city of Homs on Wednesday when rockets fired by government forces hit the house they were staying in, opposition activists and witnesses said."
posted by kliuless at 8:08 AM on February 22, 2012
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posted by Slackermagee at 11:33 AM on February 17, 2012