Giuliani honored with Knighthood.
October 15, 2001 10:58 AM Subscribe
Giuliani honored with Knighthood. Queen Elizabeth honored NY Mayor Giuliani with knighthood today. Titles are also being bestowed on police and fire commissioners.
i'd vote for anyone who jousted in the streets regularly.
posted by tolkhan at 11:41 AM on October 15, 2001
posted by tolkhan at 11:41 AM on October 15, 2001
I always wondered about how this works since Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the constitution says:
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
Especially since he's mayor, does Congress get together to make an exception?
Since they have time to have a special vote every year to keep the underground lunchroom in carlsbad caverns open, I guess special things like this are not unusual.
posted by betaray at 11:46 AM on October 15, 2001
No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.
Especially since he's mayor, does Congress get together to make an exception?
Since they have time to have a special vote every year to keep the underground lunchroom in carlsbad caverns open, I guess special things like this are not unusual.
posted by betaray at 11:46 AM on October 15, 2001
lets here it for the rudester. ever since he moved the focus of his attack from jaywalkers to rebuilding the city, he's been an amazing mayor. (I say this as a New Yorker)...
posted by goneill at 11:49 AM on October 15, 2001
posted by goneill at 11:49 AM on October 15, 2001
betaray:
The link to the CNN story goes on to say:
"Giuliani will not be able to use the title "Sir Rudolph" because he is not a UK citizen, but he can put the initials "KBE" (Knight of the British Empire) after his name. "
... and further:
"Giuliani joins a prestigious list of Americans to have been made honorary knights.
They include former presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush, British-born actor Bob Hope, Secretary of State Colin Powell and film director Steven Spielberg."
... so I guess one can accept the honor.
Interesting title: "Commander of the Most Excellent Order"
Sounds like something instituted by Bill and Ted.
posted by jpburns at 11:59 AM on October 15, 2001
The link to the CNN story goes on to say:
"Giuliani will not be able to use the title "Sir Rudolph" because he is not a UK citizen, but he can put the initials "KBE" (Knight of the British Empire) after his name. "
... and further:
"Giuliani joins a prestigious list of Americans to have been made honorary knights.
They include former presidents Ronald Reagan and George Bush, British-born actor Bob Hope, Secretary of State Colin Powell and film director Steven Spielberg."
... so I guess one can accept the honor.
Interesting title: "Commander of the Most Excellent Order"
Sounds like something instituted by Bill and Ted.
posted by jpburns at 11:59 AM on October 15, 2001
'Sblood! Curse that Giuliani! His powers are mickle; ne'er have I seen the like. Very well; let him grow complacent 'neath his Crown of Dubious Utility; all the while I shall be here, in my demesnes, ever plotting the next knots in his fate's Dreary Skein.
'Ware, however! 'Ware his dark army of Yan-Keez! They too shall fall. Soggoth! I beseech thee!
posted by Skot at 12:00 PM on October 15, 2001
'Ware, however! 'Ware his dark army of Yan-Keez! They too shall fall. Soggoth! I beseech thee!
posted by Skot at 12:00 PM on October 15, 2001
He can joust in the streets! Sir Rudy should join the knights of the Crown Province of Ostgardr, of the Kingdom of the East, of the Society for Creative Anachronisms. The Fight & Fence in Whyt Whey is held Tuesdays, 6:30 to dark, at Union Square.
posted by Mo Nickels at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2001
posted by Mo Nickels at 12:08 PM on October 15, 2001
It really is difficult to understand some things in life. I applaud Giuliani for his character and presence during this tragedy but certainly not for many other things during his administration including horrendous acts of police brutality and a disgusting and insulting way of dealing with marital problems. Hooray, viva, whatever...
(Before the flame thrower is turned on, I lived in NYC for 13 years until last June.)
posted by mmarcos at 1:03 PM on October 15, 2001
(Before the flame thrower is turned on, I lived in NYC for 13 years until last June.)
posted by mmarcos at 1:03 PM on October 15, 2001
There's never been any significant legal challenge to an honorary knighthood, so far as I can tell. There's no real case law.
But the US did reject an amendment that would have further punished acceptors of titles etc. from foreign powers by revoking citizenship. And if you poke around on this you get into the notorious Missing Thirteenth Amendment, whose proponents believe not only was that amendment passed and a recognized law of the land through the Civil War, it was obviously elliiptically intended to prevent lawyers from serving in government, and its repeal has compromised the freedoms we all hold dear, and we've been living under an illegal régime for the last 135 years. (In case you were wondering.) What, they didn't teach you about the lawyers' coup in grade school? Oh, and of course, Hillary was involved, along with the Illuminati and Freemasons.
Anyway, it's all arrant nonsense [detailed footnotes and rebuttals, as well as an explanation of why the founders thought this was at all important], of course, and the basic explanation:
Knighthoods, which for Americans carry no obligations or privileges, are not titles of nobility. When General Norman Schwarzkopf accepted a honorary knighthood [one of over sixty given to US citizens since WW2], he was still a serving officer, but no constitutional violation occurred. Apparently, a honorary knighthood does not violate the federal nobility clause, which sweeps more broadly than [the titles of nobility amendment], or it is of "minimal value" and its acceptance consented to by Congress by statute if it is received as a mark of courtesy. Further, although once accepted honorary knighthoods cannot be renounced, they can be revoked.
posted by dhartung at 1:12 AM on October 16, 2001
But the US did reject an amendment that would have further punished acceptors of titles etc. from foreign powers by revoking citizenship. And if you poke around on this you get into the notorious Missing Thirteenth Amendment, whose proponents believe not only was that amendment passed and a recognized law of the land through the Civil War, it was obviously elliiptically intended to prevent lawyers from serving in government, and its repeal has compromised the freedoms we all hold dear, and we've been living under an illegal régime for the last 135 years. (In case you were wondering.) What, they didn't teach you about the lawyers' coup in grade school? Oh, and of course, Hillary was involved, along with the Illuminati and Freemasons.
Anyway, it's all arrant nonsense [detailed footnotes and rebuttals, as well as an explanation of why the founders thought this was at all important], of course, and the basic explanation:
Knighthoods, which for Americans carry no obligations or privileges, are not titles of nobility. When General Norman Schwarzkopf accepted a honorary knighthood [one of over sixty given to US citizens since WW2], he was still a serving officer, but no constitutional violation occurred. Apparently, a honorary knighthood does not violate the federal nobility clause, which sweeps more broadly than [the titles of nobility amendment], or it is of "minimal value" and its acceptance consented to by Congress by statute if it is received as a mark of courtesy. Further, although once accepted honorary knighthoods cannot be renounced, they can be revoked.
posted by dhartung at 1:12 AM on October 16, 2001
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posted by msacheson at 11:24 AM on October 15, 2001