Ever upward

April 30, 2012 7:18 PM

Today, the World Trade Center once again became the tallest building in New York City. (Previously.)
posted by twoleftfeet (66 comments total)

That article is also about how antennae do not count toward building height, but spires do. And then proceeds to not tell us what the difference is between the two.
posted by jabberjaw at 7:29 PM on April 30, 2012 [4 favorites]

"The Skyscraper Index is a concept put forward in January 1999 by Andrew Lawrence, research director at Dresdner Kleinwort Wasserstein, which showed that the world's tallest buildings have risen on the eve of economic downturns. Business cycles and skyscraper construction correlate in such a way that investment in skyscrapers peaks when cyclical growth is exhausted and the economy is ready for recession. Mark Thornton's Skyscraper Index Model successfully sent a signal of the Late-2000s financial crisis at the beginning of August 2007."
posted by Blasdelb at 7:37 PM on April 30, 2012 [4 favorites]

4/30. Never forget.
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:38 PM on April 30, 2012 [1 favorite]

I want to reiterate my disdain for the name "freedom tower."
posted by birdherder at 7:42 PM on April 30, 2012 [28 favorites]

4/30. Never forget. always remember.
posted by special-k at 7:48 PM on April 30, 2012

Freedom, freedom, freedom, oy!
posted by barnacles at 7:48 PM on April 30, 2012

I want to reiterate my disdain for the name "freedom tower."

Go ahead, but it's a shitload better than Big Willy.

which will still be taller than 1WTC except for the antenna, so I hope they make Big Willy's Willy Bigger.
posted by eriko at 7:48 PM on April 30, 2012 [2 favorites]

Many decades ago my grandfather built a pair of matching beds for my mother and aunt. They are hand carved mahogany with four posters. Each of the posters is the same shape as the tower. Four triangles pointing up and four triangles offset by 45 degrees pointing down.

I think the tower looks slick and really awesome, you haters can shove it.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 7:50 PM on April 30, 2012 [5 favorites]

I'm going to guess that an antenna actually, you know, conducts shit like radio or microwaves, whereas a spire just...is.
posted by spicynuts at 7:50 PM on April 30, 2012

Constructing a big ass building for people to project their hopes and fears onto: billions of dollars. Constructing a truly free, just and equitable democracy: priceless.
posted by nowhere man at 7:51 PM on April 30, 2012 [7 favorites]

When is the bris?

King Kong is booked so they will have to get a different Moyel. Moil? Mohel? I have no idea how to spell that.
posted by spicynuts at 7:51 PM on April 30, 2012 [1 favorite]

I hate to poop the party, but the NY / NJ Port Authoriy is 4 BILLLION $$$$ over budget on this! And that means if you take the commuter train that they run, then your fare has gone up $1.00. If you take the Holland Tunnel it is up $4.00 and if you take the Verrazano Bridge it is up $5.00!
( I take the PATH every day :()
posted by swooz at 7:52 PM on April 30, 2012

To me, what's interesting about this is how fast they can build such a big building. It took ten years to get all the permits, all the financing, all the politics out of the way. Then they can build the thing in a year or two.
posted by twoleftfeet at 7:53 PM on April 30, 2012 [2 favorites]

I take the PATH every day too. What makes you think the fare increases are due to the WTC as opposed to the piece of shit bottom line of the MTA?
posted by spicynuts at 7:56 PM on April 30, 2012 [3 favorites]

I think the tower looks slick and really awesome, you haters can shove it.

Can we not do that thing where having an opinion that happens to differ with yours makes that person a "hater"?

Can we also not do that thing where we join two complete sentences with a comma?
posted by tapesonthefloor at 7:58 PM on April 30, 2012 [14 favorites]

I think it's safe to conclude that the war on terror has been won.
posted by carfilhiot at 7:59 PM on April 30, 2012 [1 favorite]

Hi Spicy nuts! It is directly related because it's the Port Authority Trans Hudson. I'll search in the meantime for documentation.
posted by swooz at 8:01 PM on April 30, 2012

Construction has been going on for more than five years.

Yeah, but that's out of eleven. They should have had a new tower in place after five months. They should have built four towers, the second one towering far above the others, flipping the bird to those who wish to knock down buildings.
posted by twoleftfeet at 8:09 PM on April 30, 2012 [2 favorites]

That article is also about how antennae do not count toward building height, but spires do. And then proceeds to not tell us what the difference is between the two.

I'm going to guess that an antenna actually, you know, conducts shit like radio or microwaves, whereas a spire just...is.

Yeah. Weirdly, the feature that serves a non-decorative purpose is the one that doesn't count.
posted by axiom at 8:11 PM on April 30, 2012

The World Trade Center did not become the world's tallest building today.

it isn't expected to reach its full height for at least another year

Today there was an article that said the tower may be the tallest building, depending on how you measure it.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:15 PM on April 30, 2012

May become the tallest building, that is.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 8:18 PM on April 30, 2012

King Kong is booked so they will have to get a different Moyel. Moil? Mohel? I have no idea how to spell that.

Mohel. Though I love the idea of spelling it "moil," to rhyme with the oldschool Brooklynese pronunciation of "girl" and "curl." Makes the whole thing seem all quaint and lovably old-fashioned.
posted by nebulawindphone at 8:20 PM on April 30, 2012

For a modern skyscraper, it's a really ugly design. I'm sorry.
posted by polymodus at 8:33 PM on April 30, 2012

I take the PATH every day too. What makes you think the fare increases are due to the WTC as opposed to the piece of shit bottom line of the MTA?

Here it is.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/02/port_authority_audit_reveals_n.html

The MTA is not involved, even though it is terrible also.

The big people screw up and everyone else has to pay!

Same as every place in the world now!

Haha! I don't feel so patriotic now! See you tomorrow!
posted by swooz at 8:37 PM on April 30, 2012 [1 favorite]

Then they can build the thing in a year or two.

Most of the big work is in the foundation. Once the base is done, going vertical is pretty straightforward.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:50 PM on April 30, 2012

Even more on this...
http://www.njspotlight.com/stories/11/0808/0206/

Hi to all the PATH riders! 33rd to JSQ FTW !!!!
posted by swooz at 9:07 PM on April 30, 2012 [1 favorite]

Today there was an article that said the tower may be the tallest building, depending on how you measure it.

IF YOU MEASURE FROM THE PERINEUM
posted by indubitable at 9:12 PM on April 30, 2012

Yeah. Weirdly, the feature that serves a non-decorative purpose is the one that doesn't count.

I guess an antenna can always be replaced, but a spire is part of the building and can't be swapped out for a higher one.
posted by Kevin Street at 9:12 PM on April 30, 2012

Tallest building in New York, arguably tallest building in US unless it's the Willis (formerly Sears) Tower in Chicago.

Nowhere near being the tallest building in the world, which is the Burj Khalifa, as it says in the article. Unless you're Saul Steinberging us, ActingtheGoat, in which case I apologize for missing the joke.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:16 PM on April 30, 2012

OOHH it gets better!
posted by swooz at 9:24 PM on April 30, 2012

I want to reiterate my disdain for the name "freedom tower."

It was an easier sell for office space than the "New Biggest Target Ever" or "Not like 1993 or 2001" Tower.
posted by jaduncan at 9:28 PM on April 30, 2012 [3 favorites]

King Kong is booked so they will have to get a different Moyel. Moil? Mohel? I have no idea how to spell that.

מוהל
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 9:32 PM on April 30, 2012 [6 favorites]

carfilhiot: I think it's safe to conclude that the war on terror has been won.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:34 PM on April 30, 2012

I want to reiterate my disdain for the name "freedom tower."

I'm honestly embarrassed by that name. "Freedom fries" was stupid and made us the butt of jokes, but it was just a menu item in a cafeteria. "Freedom tower" is a horrible name for this building and evokes the doublespeak of Bush-era warmongering. Let's hope that in a few years we'll name it after a dead guy or Wells Fargo or something.
posted by knave at 9:41 PM on April 30, 2012 [2 favorites]

I want to reiterate my disdain for the name "freedom tower."

No worries... they changed the name about three years ago.
posted by spilon at 9:52 PM on April 30, 2012 [5 favorites]

they changed the name about three years ago.

OMG those people must hate our freedomz too
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 9:54 PM on April 30, 2012

Just in time for Rom-E to show up with Giul-911-iani ! What tomorrow?
posted by edgeways at 10:10 PM on April 30, 2012

"Freedom tower" is a horrible name for this building and evokes the doublespeak of Bush-era warmongering.

It's not doublespeak. It's where they plan to keep all the freedom.
posted by Ritchie at 10:27 PM on April 30, 2012 [13 favorites]

They're going to call it the World Trade Center again?
I'm glad I'm not the person who has to make that call.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:35 PM on April 30, 2012 [1 favorite]

twoleftfeet: They should have had a new tower in place after five months. They should have built four towers, the second one towering far above the others, flipping the bird to those who wish to knock down buildings.

They should have left the entire area devoid of buildings, and put in a park--a green space, maybe with a reflecting pool. A place for dog walkers and frisbee players and maybe a portion sectioned off as a playground, with ice-cream hand-trucks and pretzel vendors. They could have held art and music festivals there.

I say this without any veneer of post-modern hipster irony or faux-smiley-face mockery. They should have let it be beautiful and peaceful--a gathering place for New Yorkers and tourists alike, with the memorial on one side, and a broad swath of LIFE for the rest of it.

It makes me sad.
posted by tzikeh at 10:37 PM on April 30, 2012 [15 favorites]

Nowhere near being the tallest building in the world, which is the Burj Khalifa, as it says in the article. Unless you're Saul Steinberging us, ActingtheGoat, in which case I apologize for missing the joke.

Sorry, that should have read tallest building in New York. My point was that the the post says that the WTC is the tallest building in New York as of today, which is not accurate and this is pointed out in the linked article.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:25 PM on April 30, 2012

I can't find it right now, but a few years ago there was an interview of Philippe Petit where he is asked his opinion on the construction. He was firmly in favor of rebuilding but was sorry the plans called for only one tower.
posted by Violet Hour at 12:32 AM on May 1, 2012 [2 favorites]

I suppose it's thought that calling everything Freedom this and Freedom that makes up for not having any actual civil liberties.
posted by Grangousier at 12:37 AM on May 1, 2012 [3 favorites]

The main article seems focus its comparisons on other structures in the US with only a fleeting mention of the Burj Khalifa. It seems completely blinkered to the fact that, whether through folly or economic dominance, the honor of being the world's tallest cities in this century belongs to Dubai, Mumbai, Shanghai and Shenzhen, not Chicago, Toronto and New York. The list of the world's 25 tallest buildings in 2012 is both wonderful and humbling. It's dominated by Asia and the Middle East and will very likely remain so in 2015.

twoleftfeet: They should have built four towers, the second one towering far above the others, flipping the bird to those who wish to knock down buildings.

The Saudi's have basically already done that with the Mecca Royal Hotel Clock Tower which will clock in around 60 meters taller than One World Trade Center.
posted by rh at 1:12 AM on May 1, 2012

That article is also about how antennae do not count toward building height, but spires do. And then proceeds to not tell us what the difference is between the two.

Antenna: movable object that sits on the tower but is not part of the architectural fabric.
Spire: non-movable protrusion that is part of the building itself.

It's a fuzzy line though, for sure.
posted by jaduncan at 3:51 AM on May 1, 2012

Definitely count me in as someone who thinks putting ANOTHER ENORMOUS BUILDING where the last one to stand in the same spot came down in horrific ruin is a very bad idea. Unless they plan on naming it the Santayana Future Site of Unspeakable Tragedy Building. A little humility and some quiet, green space would have been far, far better.
posted by Lipstick Thespian at 3:52 AM on May 1, 2012

One hopes that the new technologies that have been used in the construction of the new building will make it moderately harder to knock down.
posted by Difference Engine at 4:33 AM on May 1, 2012

Granted, I was pretty young when the original towers went up, but I have some memory of people thinking they were kind of an eyesore. This feeling seems to have faded once people got used to them, and got retconned out of existence after 2001. I figure we'll get used to this building, too.

The design doesn't strike me as either particularly ugly or innovative. To my non-architect eye it looks like a lot of other contemporary designs. (Shiny shiny shiny, angled/triangular faces)
posted by Karmakaze at 6:04 AM on May 1, 2012

I want to chime in with tzikeh on this.

Back in the late 70s I went down to Canal Street to check out the new (late, lamented) Museum of Holography. I hadn't spent much time at the WTC other than dinners with the family in Windows on the World, which scared the crap out of me when I saw the building swaying.

Anyway, as I strolled alone along Canal I was struck by the way the WTC cast a shadow over that part of Manhattan, and not in a good way. The pedestrial-level feel was stark and unfriendly, all hard surfaces and artificiality. I looked back over my shoulder and had the distinct impression that the towers were going to fall right on top of me.

When they were gone, I felt strongly that the only good replacement would be one that returned the area to the people: green spaces, perhaps a festival venue, things taking advantage of the wonderful setting on the water while gently reminding people of past tragedy. Instead, we now have another stark, cold edifice, another temple to capitalism.

Seems like a huge opportunity wasted, but that pretty much sums up all of 911.
posted by kinnakeet at 6:24 AM on May 1, 2012

--or rather, the response to 9/11. Not the event itself.
posted by kinnakeet at 6:24 AM on May 1, 2012

kinnakeet, surely you know that the new World Trade Center contains acres and acres of green space, right? That the memorial waterfalls are open to the public and have been for months? And that, once finished, Greenwich Street, Fulton Street, Dey Street, and Cortland Street will once again connect, thus eliminating the barren 'superblock' of the original WTC?

I am working on this project, and every time a big landmark comes by, I am reminded that people will generally take a position of negativity and go from there. When work is happening, it's not going fast enough. When work is finished, we built the wrong thing.
posted by weinbot at 6:39 AM on May 1, 2012 [6 favorites]

That is, of course, assuming people even understand what is being built.
posted by weinbot at 6:40 AM on May 1, 2012

The original World Trade Center was a complex of seven buildings (map). The Twin Towers, 1 World Trade Center (North Tower) and 2 World Trade Center (South Tower) were hit by airplanes and collapsed in the 9/11 attacks. Two other buildings, 3 World Trade Center (the Marriott World Trade Center) and 7 World Trade Center, were also destroyed in the attacks. The remaining three buildings (4, 5, and 6 World Trade Center) were damaged in the attacks and were demolished later.

The new World Trade Center complex (map) will include six towers, a transportation hub (scheduled to open in 2013), and the National September 11 Memorial & Museum. The memorial opened in September 2011 and the museum is scheduled to open this September.

One World Trade Center, the building formerly known as the Freedom Tower, will be 104 stories and the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere when it's finished, although the height of its roof will be shorter than the roof of Willis Tower (formerly Sears Tower) in Chicago. Two World Trade Center (88 stories; ETA 2015), Three World Trade Center (80 stories; ETA 2015), Four World Trade Center (72 stories; ETA 2013), and Five World Trade Center (42 stories; ETA 2015/2016) are under construction. 7 World Trade Center, a 52-story skyscraper, opened in 2006. (There isn't a Six World Trade Center in the new complex.)
posted by kirkaracha at 7:35 AM on May 1, 2012 [5 favorites]

I want to reiterate my disdain for the name "freedom tower."

I've been hearing "One World Trade Center" lately, and I'm not sure which is tackier.
posted by Stagger Lee at 7:43 AM on May 1, 2012

Stagger Lee: "I've been hearing "One World Trade Center" lately, and I'm not sure which is tackier."

It's the same name the building had before. If it's tacky, then it's been tacky since 1971.
posted by Karmakaze at 8:03 AM on May 1, 2012 [3 favorites]

I honestly don't understand the big woopteedoo about the height. Is it sound to withstand another bombing or attack? Can people safely get out who are above the impact zone?

To me the taller the building, the longer it takes a bunch of slow pokes to get down the stairs. Ever been in a corporate high rise fire drill? Yea....people need to move their ass a little faster.
posted by stormpooper at 8:28 AM on May 1, 2012

When work is happening, it's not going fast enough. When work is finished, we built the wrong thing.

I used to work at an architectural firm -- SBRA in Boston -- and this is kind of par for the course in that business. :7)

I worked in IT there, so we got it in turn from our users, "turtles all the way down."
posted by wenestvedt at 9:03 AM on May 1, 2012

I honestly don't understand the big woopteedoo about the height.

1776 feet. Geddit?

Is it sound to withstand another bombing or attack?

They say so. Of course, they said that about the first towers as well. Technology and industry won't stop advancing, and that means new and exciting ways to destroy shit that we thought couldn't be destroyed.

Note -- I'm not saying this building is going to be destroyed. I'm just pointing out that a lot of this kind of engineering (and, related, the TSA), is closing the barn door after the horses have fled and the rest of the barn has burned down.
posted by tzikeh at 10:26 AM on May 1, 2012

tzikeh, are you actually comparing the work of structural engineering - my work - to the work of the TSA? Are you an engineer yourself or are you just blustering?
posted by weinbot at 10:46 AM on May 1, 2012

weinbot: "tzikeh, are you actually comparing the work of structural engineering - my work - to the work of the TSA? Are you an engineer yourself or are you just blustering?"

I don't think tzikeh is saying that structural engineering is itself security theater, but the publicity claims of "and these buildings are extra extra bomb-proof, so there" are.
posted by Karmakaze at 1:11 PM on May 1, 2012

Structural design for blast loading is very real, it is based on scientific principles, and it can be demonstrated in laboratory settings. It is more than just hand-waving. Please know that designing a building with redundant load paths in order to avoid global collapse is very different than making you throw out your shampoo when walk through airport security. The media/press/PR people will always inflate and exaggerate, but do not think it is nearly all huff and puff.
posted by weinbot at 1:28 PM on May 1, 2012

I took it that tzikeh was complaining about paying too much attention to avoiding specific previous attack methods.

I.e., that the building designers were saying they are designing it to withstand a previous kind of attack (getting hit with a plane full of fuel) is like when TSA tries to forestall a shoe bomber, (a specific previous kind of attack), and that future attacks wouldn't necessarily take that form.

But I don't know how valid a criticism that is, since presumably they're designing the building to handle a wide range of insults.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:11 PM on May 1, 2012

(There isn't a Six World Trade Center in the new complex.)

Are you sure? It seems like rather an elementary arithmetical error. I'm sure they're just keeping it secret. Perhaps they've concealed it in some way. David Copperfield is, no doubt, involved.
posted by Grangousier at 12:47 PM on May 2, 2012

Stagger Lee: It's buildin number 1, at the World Trade Centre, and not the One-World Trade Center, if that helps. (I did a double take on that reading too.)
posted by mendel at 7:42 PM on May 2, 2012

I suppose it's thought that calling everything Freedom this and Freedom that makes up for not having any actual civil liberties.

It's humorous in an ironic Orwellian/Soviet sort of way along with the drive to slap Reagan on anything that'll hold still. Is there anything that combines Reagan and Freedom in the same name? The Reagan Freedom Covert Ops school maybe?
posted by Mitheral at 7:44 PM on May 5, 2012

Is there anything that combines Reagan and Freedom in the same name?

Freegan. I know, I was suprised too!
posted by jaduncan at 6:27 AM on May 7, 2012 [2 favorites]