Such actions simply have no place in our society.
May 15, 2012 11:43 AM Subscribe
In the wake of reactions to Presidential candidate Mitt Romney's prep school bullying incident, the Mormon Church declares an official stance on homosexuality, bullying, and compassion.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Seems like the order of events here is out of whack, the statement in question was from a couple years ago. -- cortex
Sounds like a good policy, but I'm deeply uncomfortable with the idea of a church redefining its policies in an implicit attempt to further a former Bishop's presidential campaign.
posted by mhoye at 11:49 AM on May 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 11:49 AM on May 15, 2012 [10 favorites]
Wisely, the Mormon Church is willing to run interference for Mitt.
posted by darth_tedious at 11:50 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by darth_tedious at 11:50 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is this redefinition? It reads more like clarification.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:50 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by shakespeherian at 11:50 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
"Further, while the Church is strongly on the record as opposing same-sex marriage, it has openly supported other rights for gays and lesbians such as protections in housing or employment.
The Church’s doctrine is based on love."
If you can't see the glaring contradiction here, you've got bigger problems than the gays.
posted by starvingartist at 11:51 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Church’s doctrine is based on love."
If you can't see the glaring contradiction here, you've got bigger problems than the gays.
posted by starvingartist at 11:51 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Crap, never mind. I am dumb. Reading comprehension fail.
posted by starvingartist at 11:51 AM on May 15, 2012
posted by starvingartist at 11:51 AM on May 15, 2012
It's a half-step in the right direction, but, gah.
As a church, our doctrinal position is clear: any sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and we define marriage as between a man and a woman. However, that should never, ever be used as justification for unkindness.
Well then, put your money where your mouth is, Mormons.
Prop 8 was very, very, very unkind. More unkind than a bit of schoolyard name-calling.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:52 AM on May 15, 2012 [11 favorites]
As a church, our doctrinal position is clear: any sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong, and we define marriage as between a man and a woman. However, that should never, ever be used as justification for unkindness.
Well then, put your money where your mouth is, Mormons.
Prop 8 was very, very, very unkind. More unkind than a bit of schoolyard name-calling.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:52 AM on May 15, 2012 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I think this is an important bit of housecleaning that they've probably felt pressured to engage in since before Mitt. And as much as I disagree with their fundamental beliefs, having church leaders come out and say that it is intolerable for Mormons of any age to participate in cruelty toward gays is very impressive to me. It's not everything, but it's something.
posted by hermitosis at 11:52 AM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by hermitosis at 11:52 AM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Those in the Church who are attracted to someone of the same sex but stay faithful to the Church’s teachings can be happy during this life and perform meaningful service in the Church.
Yeah, being sexually frustrated all your life is awesome! But wait, it gets better - after you die, you're going to hell!
posted by desjardins at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Yeah, being sexually frustrated all your life is awesome! But wait, it gets better - after you die, you're going to hell!
posted by desjardins at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
and we define marriage as between a man and a woman.
Just one?
Ok Ok sorry, that was too easy, and I know "the Church" doesn't support polygamy (anymore).
So, uh, guess they stopped short on saying specifically what Romney did was wrong, but be nice to each other.
I know some pretty thoughtful and caring Mormons,
Just wish the Church part wouldn't keep trying to expand their scope from church members to government policy.... course I can say the same thing about many churches and other organizations as well.
posted by edgeways at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just one?
Ok Ok sorry, that was too easy, and I know "the Church" doesn't support polygamy (anymore).
So, uh, guess they stopped short on saying specifically what Romney did was wrong, but be nice to each other.
I know some pretty thoughtful and caring Mormons,
Just wish the Church part wouldn't keep trying to expand their scope from church members to government policy.... course I can say the same thing about many churches and other organizations as well.
posted by edgeways at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
This Church has felt the bitter sting of persecution and marginalization early in our history, when we were too few in numbers to adequately protect ourselves and when society’s leaders often seemed disinclined to help. Our parents, young adults, teens and children should therefore, of all people, be especially sensitive to the vulnerable in society and be willing to speak out against bullying or intimidation whenever it occurs, including unkindness toward those who are attracted to others of the same sex.
Hmm. Seems like y'all should be a little, like, more directly pissed at Mitt assaulting a kid 'cause he looked like he could be gay. And then leading a blind teacher smack into the door.
posted by angrycat at 11:54 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hmm. Seems like y'all should be a little, like, more directly pissed at Mitt assaulting a kid 'cause he looked like he could be gay. And then leading a blind teacher smack into the door.
posted by angrycat at 11:54 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think this thread will go a whole shitton better if we say the things that we mean instead of pretending to say the things that we imagine other people mean.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:54 AM on May 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by shakespeherian at 11:54 AM on May 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
Jesus Christ, whom we follow, was clear in His condemnation of sexual immorality
I would really like to see them back this one up with some quotes. Jesus said only a handful of things about sex, and they are anything but clear.
posted by jbickers at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
I would really like to see them back this one up with some quotes. Jesus said only a handful of things about sex, and they are anything but clear.
posted by jbickers at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012 [4 favorites]
Is this the same LDS organization that funded Prop 8 and took over the Boy Scouts of America? If so, I'd like to point out some implementation issues they're having with these assertions...
posted by trackofalljades at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012
posted by trackofalljades at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012
after you die, you're going to hell!
Yea, but only until they perform a post-death baptism, then you're good. All better!
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yea, but only until they perform a post-death baptism, then you're good. All better!
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ok, so this clearly seems politically motivated and obviously I strongly disagree with the whole 'just don't have sex ever' stance... but so many churches ignore 'love the sin and hate the sinner' whenever it comes to gay people, that I can't help but feel that this is, at least, a tiny step forward. If more gay Mormon kids survive to adulthood rather than killing themselves, then, hey, they can leave the church!
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
What's lacking in this debate are churches that believe that marriage can only be defined as between two men or two women, and that all heterosexual feelings should be controlled, and people with those feelings should give their lives in service to the normal people.
posted by cell divide at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2012
posted by cell divide at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2012
We join our voice with others in unreserved condemnation of acts of cruelty or attempts to belittle or mock any group or individual that is different – whether those differences arise from race, religion, mental challenges, social status, sexual orientation or for any other reason.
You know how a Mormon spokesperson is lying? Their lips move.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2012
You know how a Mormon spokesperson is lying? Their lips move.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2012
From an excellent piece today from Grantland.com about an unrelated story:
In his invaluable What Jesus Meant, historian and author Garry Wills reminds us that, during his time as a thoroughgoing Galilean religious nuisance, Himself did not take the time to make priests, create a "Church," or, certainly, devise in his own memory an inflated medieval anachronism like the modern papacy. I have found this helpful to remember whenever "faith" is used as an excuse by elements of organized religion to treat other members of the human race as inferior. Find another excuse. The Gospels are not your alibi.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
In his invaluable What Jesus Meant, historian and author Garry Wills reminds us that, during his time as a thoroughgoing Galilean religious nuisance, Himself did not take the time to make priests, create a "Church," or, certainly, devise in his own memory an inflated medieval anachronism like the modern papacy. I have found this helpful to remember whenever "faith" is used as an excuse by elements of organized religion to treat other members of the human race as inferior. Find another excuse. The Gospels are not your alibi.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2012 [6 favorites]
In the wake of reactions to Presidential candidate Mitt Romney's prep school bullying incident, the Mormon Church declares an official stance on homosexuality, bullying, and compassion.
Against?
*rim shot*
posted by infinitywaltz at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Against?
*rim shot*
posted by infinitywaltz at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Jesus said only a handful of things about sex, and they are anything but clear.
Yeah, but Paul said a lot about sex. And if Paul said it, Jesus was probably thinking it.
posted by asnider at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, but Paul said a lot about sex. And if Paul said it, Jesus was probably thinking it.
posted by asnider at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
How is this "in the wake of"? This news release came out in 2010, judging by the date on the piece and the references to recent bullying/suicides.
posted by leesh at 11:58 AM on May 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by leesh at 11:58 AM on May 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
It's fine to be gay as long as you're cool with denying yourself sexual intimacy or meaningful romantic relationships for the rest of your life. You can keep coming to church and everything!
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the message of "don't hurt people" over the message of "break your son's wrist" but not advocating violence against people strikes me as very much the bare minimum of social acceptability. It's not some kind of out there, ultra-humanitarian position.
posted by nanojath at 11:58 AM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Don't get me wrong, I prefer the message of "don't hurt people" over the message of "break your son's wrist" but not advocating violence against people strikes me as very much the bare minimum of social acceptability. It's not some kind of out there, ultra-humanitarian position.
posted by nanojath at 11:58 AM on May 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
We join our voice with others in unreserved condemnation of acts of cruelty or attempts to belittle or mock any group or individual that is different – whether those differences arise from race, religion, mental challenges, social status, sexual orientation or for any other reason. Such actions simply have no place in our society.
Despite the other oddities of their position, that's actually a helpful and constructive statement. Now to see if they follow it up with proactive work to reduce discrimination against the GLBT population, and expand their own minimal efforts to reduce the spread of hateful stereotypes against gays from the pulpit and in their own communities.
posted by zarq at 12:02 PM on May 15, 2012
Despite the other oddities of their position, that's actually a helpful and constructive statement. Now to see if they follow it up with proactive work to reduce discrimination against the GLBT population, and expand their own minimal efforts to reduce the spread of hateful stereotypes against gays from the pulpit and in their own communities.
posted by zarq at 12:02 PM on May 15, 2012
How is this "in the wake of"? This news release came out in 2010, judging by the date on the piece and the references to recent bullying/suicides.
Holy crap, you're right. This is not new, it just happened to be presented to me as new.
I officially invite the mods to delete the post, it's probably not worth the hassle.
posted by hermitosis at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2012
Holy crap, you're right. This is not new, it just happened to be presented to me as new.
I officially invite the mods to delete the post, it's probably not worth the hassle.
posted by hermitosis at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2012
How is this "in the wake of"? This news release came out in 2010, judging by the date on the piece and the references to recent bullying/suicides.
No doubt, this post is wildly misleading.
posted by IvoShandor at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2012
No doubt, this post is wildly misleading.
posted by IvoShandor at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2012
desjardins: "Yeah, being sexually frustrated all your life is awesome! But wait, it gets better - after you die, you're going to hell!"
You didn't actually finish reading the article did you?
posted by Blasdelb at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2012
You didn't actually finish reading the article did you?
posted by Blasdelb at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2012
IvoShandor: " No doubt, this post is wildly misleading."
It is pretty amazing how the whole thread just went with it though, don't you think?
posted by Blasdelb at 12:05 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
It is pretty amazing how the whole thread just went with it though, don't you think?
posted by Blasdelb at 12:05 PM on May 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I thought it would be worth sharing this video to create some more dialogue. These students are Mormons, identify under the queer umbrella, and attend a Mormon based university.
I hope that people become more accepting of others rather than simply tolerant of others.
posted by livinglearning at 12:06 PM on May 15, 2012
I hope that people become more accepting of others rather than simply tolerant of others.
posted by livinglearning at 12:06 PM on May 15, 2012
declares an official stance on homosexuality, bullying, and compassion.
Reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition "Comfy Chair" sketch.
posted by stormpooper at 12:13 PM on May 15, 2012
Reminds me of the Spanish Inquisition "Comfy Chair" sketch.
posted by stormpooper at 12:13 PM on May 15, 2012
Blasdelb: " It is pretty amazing how the whole thread just went with it though, don't you think?"
Though perhaps we should read links more carefully, given that 99.3% of threads are not written with factual errors, I'm pretty sure we can cut people some slack when one doesn't and not make it a referendum on Metafilter at large.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:14 PM on May 15, 2012
Though perhaps we should read links more carefully, given that 99.3% of threads are not written with factual errors, I'm pretty sure we can cut people some slack when one doesn't and not make it a referendum on Metafilter at large.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 12:14 PM on May 15, 2012
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