Papa Don't Leave: Paternity Leave Infographic
June 7, 2012 1:46 PM Subscribe
Papa Don't Leave: A Paternity Leave Infographic. The allowances for paid paternity leave differ greatly depending on which country you're in. This infographic (flash version; raw image) offers an interesting comparison of the number of days of paid leave offered by country. [via blurbomat]
nadawi: "has a better potential of strengthening families than just making sure gays can't marry each other"
Hey, while we're on the subject, could someone who's more familiar with family law than I comment on what families with two male parents get or don't get in terms of leave when they adopt? In these no-paid-paternity-leave states, is it really true that neither of those parents are legally eligible for paid leave to take care of (in lots fo cases) a newborn infant?
posted by Apropos of Something at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2012
Hey, while we're on the subject, could someone who's more familiar with family law than I comment on what families with two male parents get or don't get in terms of leave when they adopt? In these no-paid-paternity-leave states, is it really true that neither of those parents are legally eligible for paid leave to take care of (in lots fo cases) a newborn infant?
posted by Apropos of Something at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2012
in the US, i've always felt that the whole "PROTECT THE FAMILY" and "FOCUS ON THE FAMILY" and "MILLION MOMS" were disingenuous because they never seemed to fight for things like mandatory parental leave after the birth of a child.
That's because they don't actually give a rat's ass about children or families; they just hate gay people.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2012 [21 favorites]
That's because they don't actually give a rat's ass about children or families; they just hate gay people.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:55 PM on June 7, 2012 [21 favorites]
Some of those graphics are badly misleading. The yellow bar in the bottom right hand corner underneath the question put in Quebec is longer than it should be (value: 85%, yellow bar is at about 97%). It's not just one either, there's a lot of visual misrepresentation. Shame.
posted by stonepharisee at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by stonepharisee at 1:58 PM on June 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
Apropos, i think it would be all up to what the individual companies offer - probably something like FMLA (which is to say under/unpaid). the situation for women would be better, but not by much in most places in the US i don't think.
posted by nadawi at 1:59 PM on June 7, 2012
posted by nadawi at 1:59 PM on June 7, 2012
in the US, i've always felt that the whole "PROTECT THE FAMILY" and "FOCUS ON THE FAMILY" and "MILLION MOMS" were disingenuous because they never seemed to fight for things like mandatory parental leave after the birth of a child.
That's because they don't actually give a rat's ass about children or families; they just hate gay people.
No, it's because they want women to stay at home and never work, thus making parental leave unnecessary.
posted by Melismata at 2:05 PM on June 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
That's because they don't actually give a rat's ass about children or families; they just hate gay people.
No, it's because they want women to stay at home and never work, thus making parental leave unnecessary.
posted by Melismata at 2:05 PM on June 7, 2012 [4 favorites]
A friend of mine took paternity leave when he was a mid-level associate at a Very Large Law Firm. He heard one of the senior partners grumble "I've heard of paternity leave, but I've never heard of paternity return."
He started looking for a new job shortly thereafter.
posted by ambrosia at 2:06 PM on June 7, 2012
He started looking for a new job shortly thereafter.
posted by ambrosia at 2:06 PM on June 7, 2012
even with a dedicated stay at home parent, i still think parental leave should be offered for the other parent. my husband and i are childless by choice, but i i can only see benefits for our society if parents are given the time to really give all their effort to the care of their newly expanded family for a little while.
posted by nadawi at 2:07 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by nadawi at 2:07 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Speaking of private insurance, we explicitely have 3 paid days of "Paternity Leave" for people who are becoming father's or adopting a child. We have no codified maternity leave? I think we're supposed to read between the lines and figure out that we're supposed to use short-term disability.
Hey, while we're on the subject, could someone who's more familiar with family law than I comment on what families with two male parents get or don't get in terms of leave when they adopt? In these no-paid-paternity-leave states, is it really true that neither of those parents are legally eligible for paid leave to take care of (in lots fo cases) a newborn infant?
In the US, women generally aren't entitled to PTO for maternity leave either. The Family Medical Leave act (which requires companies to provide a certain amount of unpaid leave) applies to women giving birth to a child, men who are becoming biological fathers, or anyone who is adopting a child.
posted by muddgirl at 2:09 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Hey, while we're on the subject, could someone who's more familiar with family law than I comment on what families with two male parents get or don't get in terms of leave when they adopt? In these no-paid-paternity-leave states, is it really true that neither of those parents are legally eligible for paid leave to take care of (in lots fo cases) a newborn infant?
In the US, women generally aren't entitled to PTO for maternity leave either. The Family Medical Leave act (which requires companies to provide a certain amount of unpaid leave) applies to women giving birth to a child, men who are becoming biological fathers, or anyone who is adopting a child.
posted by muddgirl at 2:09 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Apologies for my bad wording, which implies that a man who adopts a child isn't 'becoming a father.'
posted by muddgirl at 2:10 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 2:10 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
The Canadian example is a little misleading. It's true that that is the max for Paternal leave, but in reality, Parental leave is 52 weeks, shared. The mother must take the first 12 weeks (I think, it may be a little less). Payout is the same as EI, so 55% up to a max of around $500 / week.
I was lucky enough to work for a company that offered 2 weeks paid leave for dads when they had a baby, outside of any government action.
posted by sauril at 2:20 PM on June 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
I was lucky enough to work for a company that offered 2 weeks paid leave for dads when they had a baby, outside of any government action.
posted by sauril at 2:20 PM on June 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
Parental leave is 52 weeks, shared. The mother must take the first 12 weeks (I think, it may be a little less). Payout is the same as EI, so 55% up to a max of around $500 / week
Yep, was just looking into this recently with a little one on the way. They are quite clear about it, even going so far as to say you can divide the time between the parents if the mother wants to go back to work early for whatever reason. And getting 55% I think is just a base minimum--a lot of companies opt to pay significantly more in "top-up payments" and such.
posted by Hoopo at 2:30 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yep, was just looking into this recently with a little one on the way. They are quite clear about it, even going so far as to say you can divide the time between the parents if the mother wants to go back to work early for whatever reason. And getting 55% I think is just a base minimum--a lot of companies opt to pay significantly more in "top-up payments" and such.
posted by Hoopo at 2:30 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
It should be noted that paternity leave (and a significant deal of maternity leave) in the United Kingdom is paid at a statutory rate. This is a little over half minimum wage, but it is borne by the state and not individual businesses. Although the rate is low it at least means that the poorest benefit most by receiving a higher percentage of their normal income. I also understand that fatherhood leave is not a straight fortnight, but rather a time limited allowance that can be used a few days at a time.
posted by Jehan at 2:34 PM on June 7, 2012
posted by Jehan at 2:34 PM on June 7, 2012
One other factor (of minimal importance): Europe has a minimum 20 days (four weeks) paid vacation, with some countries granting more. So while it sucks that you have to take personal holiday time when you become a dad, it doesn't mean that if you want to stay home for two weeks, you are now out of vacation for the rest of the year like you are in the US.
Maternity cover in Ireland: you're entitled to 26 weeks of paid maternity leave, plus an optional additional 16 weeks unpaid. If your employer doesn't grant maternity pay, you're guaranteed a minimum €217.80 per week for 26 weeks in government benefit. The same is true for Adoption Benefit, which goes to women or in the case of a single male adopting, the male parent.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2012
Maternity cover in Ireland: you're entitled to 26 weeks of paid maternity leave, plus an optional additional 16 weeks unpaid. If your employer doesn't grant maternity pay, you're guaranteed a minimum €217.80 per week for 26 weeks in government benefit. The same is true for Adoption Benefit, which goes to women or in the case of a single male adopting, the male parent.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:39 PM on June 7, 2012
The UK example is wrong as well. There is a statutory entitlement to two weeks leave, but paid at only £135.45/week, or 90% of your normal pay, and that can overlap with maternity leave. Most employers offer two weeks at full pay, but that's not enshrined in law. If, however, the mother returns to work before the end of her 39 week maternity leave entitlement, since April last year that father can now use the remaining maternity leave, up to 26 weeks, at £135.45/week.
posted by roofus at 2:46 PM on June 7, 2012
posted by roofus at 2:46 PM on June 7, 2012
When our son was born in December, my wife considered herself lucky that her company allowed her to take short term disability, which was something like 60% pay for six weeks. She got eight weeks' pay because she had a caesarean.
I took three days off work. We couldn't afford for me to take off any more, and I wasn't eligible for FMLA, since I had only been with the company 7 months.
posted by Fleebnork at 2:58 PM on June 7, 2012
I took three days off work. We couldn't afford for me to take off any more, and I wasn't eligible for FMLA, since I had only been with the company 7 months.
posted by Fleebnork at 2:58 PM on June 7, 2012
That's because they don't actually give a rat's ass about children or families; they just hate gay people.
...and...
No, it's because they want women to stay at home and never work, thus making parental leave unnecessary.
Can't it be both?
posted by aramaic at 3:05 PM on June 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
...and...
No, it's because they want women to stay at home and never work, thus making parental leave unnecessary.
Can't it be both?
posted by aramaic at 3:05 PM on June 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
I think a more interesting infographic might compare paternity leave to maternity leave - the fact that the US requires only unpaid paternity leave shouldn't be surprising, considering they only require unpaid maternity leave. Meanwhile, it would be interesting to see which countries have different policies for men and women, or which prioritize maternity leave over paternity leave.
posted by muddgirl at 3:18 PM on June 7, 2012
posted by muddgirl at 3:18 PM on June 7, 2012
Australia's paternity leave is paid at minimum wage by the government. Sweden's is also combined with the mother's maternity leave. It's not as cut and dry as the infographic makes it out to be.
posted by Talez at 3:19 PM on June 7, 2012
posted by Talez at 3:19 PM on June 7, 2012
I also understand that fatherhood leave is not a straight fortnight, but rather a time limited allowance that can be used a few days at a time.
I think you're getting confused between paternity leave and parental leave. What is now called "Ordinary Paternity Leave" must be taken in one continuous period of either one or two weeks. Mothers of children born after the 3rd of April last year can transfer up to 26 weeks of their maternity leave to the father, after she has returned to work. This is called "Additional Paternity Leave", and has to end within 12 months of the birth of the child. However, to add more confusion to this heady brew, the government have said the the Addition Paternity Leave Regulation 2010 are only an interim measure.
There is also parental leave, which is the right to up to 13 weeks unpaid leave to be taken by each eligible employee in respect of each child. This must be taken before the child is 5 years old, but may be taken at any time in blocks of one week or multiples thereof. That's the statutory scheme, anyway. Employers are allowed to construct their own schemes as long as they don't provide less than the rights that are statutorily guaranteed.
It's a bit of a pig's breakfast for employees and employers alike, if I'm honest.
posted by howfar at 3:36 PM on June 7, 2012
I think you're getting confused between paternity leave and parental leave. What is now called "Ordinary Paternity Leave" must be taken in one continuous period of either one or two weeks. Mothers of children born after the 3rd of April last year can transfer up to 26 weeks of their maternity leave to the father, after she has returned to work. This is called "Additional Paternity Leave", and has to end within 12 months of the birth of the child. However, to add more confusion to this heady brew, the government have said the the Addition Paternity Leave Regulation 2010 are only an interim measure.
There is also parental leave, which is the right to up to 13 weeks unpaid leave to be taken by each eligible employee in respect of each child. This must be taken before the child is 5 years old, but may be taken at any time in blocks of one week or multiples thereof. That's the statutory scheme, anyway. Employers are allowed to construct their own schemes as long as they don't provide less than the rights that are statutorily guaranteed.
It's a bit of a pig's breakfast for employees and employers alike, if I'm honest.
posted by howfar at 3:36 PM on June 7, 2012
The one for Norway is not totally correct either, from the wikipedia:
[Parental leave] 56 weeks (13 months) (at 80% salary) or 46 weeks (10.5 months) (at 100% salary) - mother must take at least 3 weeks immediately before birth and 6 weeks immediately after birth, father must take at least 12 weeks (the so-called daddy quota) - the rest can be shared between mother and father.
posted by palbo at 4:15 PM on June 7, 2012
[Parental leave] 56 weeks (13 months) (at 80% salary) or 46 weeks (10.5 months) (at 100% salary) - mother must take at least 3 weeks immediately before birth and 6 weeks immediately after birth, father must take at least 12 weeks (the so-called daddy quota) - the rest can be shared between mother and father.
posted by palbo at 4:15 PM on June 7, 2012
In the US, women generally aren't entitled to PTO for maternity leave either.
The U.S., Swaziland, and Papua New Guinea are the only 3 countries (out of the counted 178) that do not guarantee paid maternity leave.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:05 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
The U.S., Swaziland, and Papua New Guinea are the only 3 countries (out of the counted 178) that do not guarantee paid maternity leave.
posted by mrgrimm at 5:05 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
3 Reasons Why Card-Carrying Capitalists Should Support Paid Family Leave
posted by mrgrimm at 5:06 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mrgrimm at 5:06 PM on June 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
I've taken parental leave (as a father) for my daughter, and I will soon for my son. In Canada, parents can take a maximum of 35 weeks, after the initial 17 weeks for mothers. Employment Insurance is paid to a maximum of $456 per week.
I took 6 months for my daughter, and will take 2 months for my son. It's wonderful time, and I am so privileged to take it. I know of families where the mother will not give up the time to the father, which I find a bit sad.
posted by Amity at 6:15 PM on June 7, 2012
I took 6 months for my daughter, and will take 2 months for my son. It's wonderful time, and I am so privileged to take it. I know of families where the mother will not give up the time to the father, which I find a bit sad.
posted by Amity at 6:15 PM on June 7, 2012
FWIW, here in Malaysia, women get three months at full pay (increased in the last year or two from two months) for their first 5 children, men get two weeks.
posted by BinGregory at 12:22 AM on June 8, 2012
posted by BinGregory at 12:22 AM on June 8, 2012
126 days paternity leave in Australia? Try two weeks.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:40 AM on June 8, 2012
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:40 AM on June 8, 2012
I'M ON PAID PATERNITY LEAVE RIGHT NOW! (And it rocks. I live in Norway, FWIW.)
posted by Harald74 at 2:03 AM on June 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Harald74 at 2:03 AM on June 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
The information for France is also misleading. All fathers are entitled to 11 days PAID paternity leave. The mother or the father can also take up to 3 years unpaid parental leave.
posted by Lezzles at 2:45 AM on June 8, 2012
posted by Lezzles at 2:45 AM on June 8, 2012
126 days paternity leave in Australia? Try two weeks.
I assume that the 126 days is referring to the Paid Parental Leave scheme, which can be paid to either the mother or the father, depending on which one is the primary caregiver. The other parent receives the two weeks.
Potentially misleading, but correct.
posted by PercyByssheShelley at 3:48 AM on June 8, 2012
I assume that the 126 days is referring to the Paid Parental Leave scheme, which can be paid to either the mother or the father, depending on which one is the primary caregiver. The other parent receives the two weeks.
Potentially misleading, but correct.
posted by PercyByssheShelley at 3:48 AM on June 8, 2012
Talez was uncharacteristically unclear in describing Australia's (very recently won) parental leave scheme.
The infograph is a bit misleading as the 'paternity' leave is only available and paid if the father is the main care giver. In such a circumstance, the main care giver is entitled to 18 weeks of leave paid at the minimum wage (by the gov), extending to up to 12 months unpaid leave with job protection.
In reality, this is almost always claimed by the mother (except in same sex male adoptions, I guess), as culturally, like in the UK and America it is assumed the Dad will trundle off back to work and leave Mum at home for any PND.
When we lived in the UK, I had 5 days paternity leave as part of my (executive, i guess) contract,and back in Oz, I have the same as "non-primary carer" leave.
It was instructive when in Australia I asked my boss about taking some unpaid parental leave (the primary carer can have up to 12 months off unpaid with job (somewhat) protection).
He said, hmmm, I'll get back to you. and never did.
I think I could have pressed my rights and taken 3 months unpaid leave (after my wife returned to work after 9 months off) but it was clear it certainly would have counted against me, whatever my rights were.
posted by bystander at 7:29 AM on June 8, 2012
The infograph is a bit misleading as the 'paternity' leave is only available and paid if the father is the main care giver. In such a circumstance, the main care giver is entitled to 18 weeks of leave paid at the minimum wage (by the gov), extending to up to 12 months unpaid leave with job protection.
In reality, this is almost always claimed by the mother (except in same sex male adoptions, I guess), as culturally, like in the UK and America it is assumed the Dad will trundle off back to work and leave Mum at home for any PND.
When we lived in the UK, I had 5 days paternity leave as part of my (executive, i guess) contract,and back in Oz, I have the same as "non-primary carer" leave.
It was instructive when in Australia I asked my boss about taking some unpaid parental leave (the primary carer can have up to 12 months off unpaid with job (somewhat) protection).
He said, hmmm, I'll get back to you. and never did.
I think I could have pressed my rights and taken 3 months unpaid leave (after my wife returned to work after 9 months off) but it was clear it certainly would have counted against me, whatever my rights were.
posted by bystander at 7:29 AM on June 8, 2012
Oops, I see my countrypeople have jumped on this - my comment was written after reading an earlier version of this thread, and I foolishly relied on the javascript new comment update to tell me if there was any updates, instead of previewing properly.
Anyway, can I recommend Australians head out to see Graveyard Train, Australia's only horror country ensemble, who are touring at the moment? Or at least youtube them.
posted by bystander at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2012
Anyway, can I recommend Australians head out to see Graveyard Train, Australia's only horror country ensemble, who are touring at the moment? Or at least youtube them.
posted by bystander at 7:37 AM on June 8, 2012
« Older The Joe Beats Experiment presents Indie Rock... | Blue will speak for the trees Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by nadawi at 1:51 PM on June 7, 2012 [20 favorites]