Dup Leppard
July 5, 2012 3:35 PM Subscribe
Rock band Def Leppard has decided upon a unique solution to the problem of making their music available for electronic distribution despite conflicts with Universal Music Group: Re-record their entire back catalog as accurately as possible. They're calling the songs 'forgeries.'
Once again, artists show how obsolete the big music labels are. I think I'll go buy some Def Leppard on iTunes now.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:40 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:40 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
That is brilliant.
posted by scratch at 3:40 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by scratch at 3:40 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not a fan of their music either, but I am tempted to buy one of their forgeries.
posted by perhapses at 3:42 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by perhapses at 3:42 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
This is awesome and I am going to delete all my old mp3s and buy the new ones because if there is one thing on this earth of which I have a full and detailed and rich understanding, it is spite.
posted by elizardbits at 3:42 PM on July 5, 2012 [248 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 3:42 PM on July 5, 2012 [248 favorites]
HAHAHAHA. I swear, it's like record labels have forgotten who actually makes the sweet music.
posted by iamkimiam at 3:44 PM on July 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 3:44 PM on July 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm with elizardbits, and will elaborate to say as shown previously on Kickstarter and similar places the surest way to get the internet to open its wallets is to make them feel they are buying into something and not just buying something.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:45 PM on July 5, 2012 [23 favorites]
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 3:45 PM on July 5, 2012 [23 favorites]
So if I understand this correctly, Universal Music Group is refusing to pay Def Leppard any compensation for music that was recorded with UMG back in the day so Def Leppard has decided to re-record their old hits and sell 'em themselves. Not a fan at all, as a matter of fact I change the station when they come on, but good for them. Here's a question: does the paying public really care how shitty the big labels are to their (former) artists? I guess probably not, which is really too bad. The labels have no incentive to change their evil ways if they're still getting the money...
posted by ashbury at 3:45 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by ashbury at 3:45 PM on July 5, 2012
Pour Some Stevia On Me?
posted by elizardbits at 3:46 PM on July 5, 2012 [25 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 3:46 PM on July 5, 2012 [25 favorites]
This is really interesting. I do know studios will do everything they can to keep the music out of the artists' hands, even if it legally is- Kevin Shields had a hell of a time remastering Loveless because the studio said that only certain tapes belonged to him, and then they hid them from him.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by dunkadunc at 3:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
That said: What has nine arms and sucks?
posted by dunkadunc at 3:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [29 favorites]
posted by dunkadunc at 3:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [29 favorites]
Redoing their entire back catalog is something they should have done years ago. Just kidding.
posted by monospace at 3:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by monospace at 3:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Hmm. People who are really interested music production (like me) will buy both for comparison purposes.
Provided the mastering on the 'forgeries' doesn't suck.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 3:48 PM on July 5, 2012
Provided the mastering on the 'forgeries' doesn't suck.
posted by ZenMasterThis at 3:48 PM on July 5, 2012
I am a (non-ironic) fan of Def Leppard and this makes me love that gang of crazy one-armed vegans even more. (Note: not all members of Def Leppard are actually one-armed, or vegans.)
posted by scody at 3:48 PM on July 5, 2012 [20 favorites]
posted by scody at 3:48 PM on July 5, 2012 [20 favorites]
Didn't Bob Mould re-record "See A Little Light" for that TIAA-CREF ad so he'd get paid instead of the record company?
Anyway, good for Def Leppard. Still not a fan, but more power to 'em.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:49 PM on July 5, 2012
Anyway, good for Def Leppard. Still not a fan, but more power to 'em.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 3:49 PM on July 5, 2012
1. This is great; you gotta, as they say, take the power back.
2. But ... the drums on the new recordings are just awful. Def Leppard records were always a weird mish-mash of live drums and samples, but these new tracks are just so spiky.
3. They definitely modernized the mixes while preserving much of the original feel, which is interesting. These new mixes are much drier than the originals.
posted by uncleozzy at 3:51 PM on July 5, 2012
2. But ... the drums on the new recordings are just awful. Def Leppard records were always a weird mish-mash of live drums and samples, but these new tracks are just so spiky.
3. They definitely modernized the mixes while preserving much of the original feel, which is interesting. These new mixes are much drier than the originals.
posted by uncleozzy at 3:51 PM on July 5, 2012
I'm guessing that what they can't do in the studio, they'll be able to do in post. What they can do with signal processing software these days is basically indistinguishable from magic.
posted by dunkadunc at 3:51 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by dunkadunc at 3:51 PM on July 5, 2012
. Here's a question: does the paying public really care how shitty the big labels are to their (former) artists? I guess probably not, which is really too bad. The labels have no incentive to change their evil ways if they're still getting the money...
Mostly no. But the population of people currently willing to pay for Def Leppard albums is going to be skewed heavily toward Real Fans, who are exactly the people who'd be happiest with the notion of getting to help out the band and fuck over Evil Suits in at the same time.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:52 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Mostly no. But the population of people currently willing to pay for Def Leppard albums is going to be skewed heavily toward Real Fans, who are exactly the people who'd be happiest with the notion of getting to help out the band and fuck over Evil Suits in at the same time.
posted by Tomorrowful at 3:52 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Wow, yeah. I have never purchased (or illegally downloaded) a Def Leppard record in my life and never felt a particular urge to either. Until now.
posted by 256 at 3:55 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by 256 at 3:55 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
"To further their plan, I think they should just ever so slightly change one or two tiny things about each song while they're at it, so we can look forward to tunes like "Sock of Ages," or "Pocket.""
"Take a label, shake it up / Break the bubble, break it up"
Also, F-f-f-forgin' (I'm not forgin' myself - no no no!)
posted by iamkimiam at 3:57 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
"Take a label, shake it up / Break the bubble, break it up"
Also, F-f-f-forgin' (I'm not forgin' myself - no no no!)
posted by iamkimiam at 3:57 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
Three reasons why Def Leppard is actually awesome, embodied by the video for Foolin':
1) That riff
2) Phil Collen's brave, steadfast resistance to '80s hairstyles
3) Joe Elliott's extraordinary white pants
posted by scody at 3:58 PM on July 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
1) That riff
2) Phil Collen's brave, steadfast resistance to '80s hairstyles
3) Joe Elliott's extraordinary white pants
posted by scody at 3:58 PM on July 5, 2012 [7 favorites]
so we can look forward to tunes like "Sock of Ages," or "Pocket."
Oh god, a deeply ironic steampunkish song called "Phonograph" would make me weep with joy. Although I suppose "Daguerrotype" would be more accurate.
posted by elizardbits at 4:00 PM on July 5, 2012 [10 favorites]
Oh god, a deeply ironic steampunkish song called "Phonograph" would make me weep with joy. Although I suppose "Daguerrotype" would be more accurate.
posted by elizardbits at 4:00 PM on July 5, 2012 [10 favorites]
I am friends with a pretty well-known film composer, he's been doing this to release his music on his own compilations. Presumably he uses the same Midi control tracks. The problem, he said, is with virtuoso instrumental tracks. Sometimes he hires the same musician.
posted by StickyCarpet at 4:00 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by StickyCarpet at 4:00 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I love this and wish more bands would do it, if for no other reason than to get cleaner copies of classic songs that no amount of remastering will ever fix. There's a bunch of 80s metal and punk that sounds like it was recorded underwater with the signal routed into a transistor radio attached to a voice recorder in a greeting card that I find completely unlistenable. Great songs with horrid production would be well served by this.
posted by mikesch at 4:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by mikesch at 4:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
I wonder if Alan Moore could get away with writing an exact duplicate of, say, Watchmen and selling it on his own?
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Joey Michaels at 4:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
there was a smallish band called [DARYL] in DFW a few years back who ended up doing exactly this to sidestep a bullshit label move. from the biggest to the smallest, it's heartwarming every time.
posted by radiosilents at 4:04 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by radiosilents at 4:04 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am a Leppard fan as well and think this is a kickass move, although the guitar of Steaming' Steve Clark and Pete Willis will be missed.
*get whiskey, wine, and woman because tonite the lights are going done*
posted by jonmc at 4:05 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
*get whiskey, wine, and woman because tonite the lights are going done*
posted by jonmc at 4:05 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm frankly surprised this isn't illegal. If J Random Band recorded and sold a cover of Hysteria, wouldn't they be sued by UMG?
posted by brokkr at 4:09 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by brokkr at 4:09 PM on July 5, 2012
I'm frankly surprised this isn't illegal. If J Random Band recorded and sold a cover of Hysteria, wouldn't they be sued by UMG?
Good question. J Random Band would certainly owe royalties on the covers. My guess is Leppard is going to get a really big bill from UMG, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:12 PM on July 5, 2012
Good question. J Random Band would certainly owe royalties on the covers. My guess is Leppard is going to get a really big bill from UMG, too.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:12 PM on July 5, 2012
So, it turns out "Gunter glieben glauchen globen" translates to 'Universal Music Group can suck it!"
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 4:12 PM on July 5, 2012 [21 favorites]
posted by BigHeartedGuy at 4:12 PM on July 5, 2012 [21 favorites]
Everclear, of all people, actually did this a few years ago too. In that case the lead singer/songwriter Art-whatever-his-name-is never had the publishing rights to his stuff (the label did), but did get a writer's royalty. However, he had to sell that off in one of his divorces or a bankruptcy, so he rerecorded all his hits and rereleased it. I have a lot more sympathy for Def in this case.
posted by boubelium at 4:13 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by boubelium at 4:13 PM on July 5, 2012
I'm frankly surprised this isn't illegal
I'm pretty sure they are credited at the writers / arrangers of the music.
posted by Dark Messiah at 4:14 PM on July 5, 2012
I'm pretty sure they are credited at the writers / arrangers of the music.
posted by Dark Messiah at 4:14 PM on July 5, 2012
Right. They'll owe some hefty royalties to the songwriters — which is to say, themselves — which is to say, they'll come out even on that part.
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:17 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by nebulawindphone at 4:17 PM on July 5, 2012
They did this with Pac-Man Fever, unfortunately losing some of the arcade sounds that were actually recorded in arcades.
posted by jozxyqk at 4:17 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by jozxyqk at 4:17 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
I always thought it was 'unta gleeben glouten globen.
Anyway, I was recently reading a Chuck Eddy collection and in an interview therein Lep do indeed come across as good guys, and the above quoted "Saturday Night (High & Dry)" is the best non-AC/DC AC/DC ever.
posted by jonmc at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012
Anyway, I was recently reading a Chuck Eddy collection and in an interview therein Lep do indeed come across as good guys, and the above quoted "Saturday Night (High & Dry)" is the best non-AC/DC AC/DC ever.
posted by jonmc at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012
I'm frankly surprised this isn't illegal. If J Random Band recorded and sold a cover of Hysteria, wouldn't they be sued by UMG?
Song rights are kind of complicated (I am not a lawyer). There are the rights to the lyrics and music (ie, performing rights), and then there are the rights to the actual recording that is made on the album.
Lots of times, bands maintain the rights to the song while labels get the rights to the recording, but that's not always true. If Def Leppard has the rights to the song, they can re-record it all they want. I guess the question is, is there a certain amount of fidelity in the re-recording that infringes on the original recording rights? That's beyond what I know.
posted by muddgirl at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Song rights are kind of complicated (I am not a lawyer). There are the rights to the lyrics and music (ie, performing rights), and then there are the rights to the actual recording that is made on the album.
Lots of times, bands maintain the rights to the song while labels get the rights to the recording, but that's not always true. If Def Leppard has the rights to the song, they can re-record it all they want. I guess the question is, is there a certain amount of fidelity in the re-recording that infringes on the original recording rights? That's beyond what I know.
posted by muddgirl at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm frankly surprised this isn't illegal. If J Random Band recorded and sold a cover of Hysteria, wouldn't they be sued by UMG?
Nope. The songs-as-music-and-lyrics (publishing) and songs-as-audio-recording are two technically different copyrights.
You can legally re-record and sell any song you like so long as you pay a percentage to whomever owns the publishing of that song. Chances are that Def Leppard own the bulk of the publishing to their own songs, so that would cut UMG out of the picture entirely.
posted by tantrumthecat at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Nope. The songs-as-music-and-lyrics (publishing) and songs-as-audio-recording are two technically different copyrights.
You can legally re-record and sell any song you like so long as you pay a percentage to whomever owns the publishing of that song. Chances are that Def Leppard own the bulk of the publishing to their own songs, so that would cut UMG out of the picture entirely.
posted by tantrumthecat at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm frankly surprised this isn't illegal. If J Random Band recorded and sold a cover of Hysteria, wouldn't they be sued by UMG?
There is a difference between the copyright in the song (probably owned by Def Leppard as the authors/arrangers) and the copyright in the sound recording (probably owned by the studio for reasons that have to do with making sure we still have studios and not much else). As long as you have the former you can cover to your heart's content.
posted by The Bellman at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
There is a difference between the copyright in the song (probably owned by Def Leppard as the authors/arrangers) and the copyright in the sound recording (probably owned by the studio for reasons that have to do with making sure we still have studios and not much else). As long as you have the former you can cover to your heart's content.
posted by The Bellman at 4:18 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Good for them. But this a sort of echo of what a few other artists have done. Roy Orbison and Rick Nelson made soundalike recordings that they owned fully, because their original stuff wasn't even available and/or royalty was too small, and Bob Welch for various reasons he said, but mainly his old royalty was too small.
There is a provision in most major record company contracts that the artist cannot record the same songs for another music company for some period of time. That goes back to the 1910s, when an artist would record something and get paid in full in cash (no future royalties), then walk right down the street and record the same songs for another record company. So the labels agreed or conspired to put a stop to that. That led to a bunch of B level artists using pseudonyms on other labels, but that is another story.
posted by caclwmr4 at 4:27 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
There is a provision in most major record company contracts that the artist cannot record the same songs for another music company for some period of time. That goes back to the 1910s, when an artist would record something and get paid in full in cash (no future royalties), then walk right down the street and record the same songs for another record company. So the labels agreed or conspired to put a stop to that. That led to a bunch of B level artists using pseudonyms on other labels, but that is another story.
posted by caclwmr4 at 4:27 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I am an unrepentant fan of Def Leppard's stuff up to and including (bits of) Hysteria, probably mostly due to nostalgia for cruising around in the back of my buddy's '69 Barracuda with a thermos full of vodka, blowing snowy donuts in the arena parking lot, and I think this is a pretty great fuck you to the record companies. I do wonder how the rerecorded versions will sound, but I'm keen to hear them.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:28 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:28 PM on July 5, 2012 [3 favorites]
Gang Of Four did this as well a few years ago with the album 'Return The Gift.'
posted by lumpenprole at 4:28 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by lumpenprole at 4:28 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Note: 'blowing snowy donuts' sounds vaguely dirty, but it was not. You know, other than spilling booze and dropping cigarette ashes.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:29 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:29 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
They do seem like good guys. Kinda made me sad how flat and lifeless these "forgeries" sound, hard to replicate that hunger of a young hair-metal band, no foolin'.
posted by Cosine at 4:29 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by Cosine at 4:29 PM on July 5, 2012
Didn't Buckner & Garcia have to do the same thing for somewhat similar reasons?
It's fucking stupid that they have to do this. Without the artists there's no goddamn labels!
posted by Redfield at 4:33 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's fucking stupid that they have to do this. Without the artists there's no goddamn labels!
posted by Redfield at 4:33 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Squeeze did this and it sucked.
posted by unSane at 4:33 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by unSane at 4:33 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Blowing snowy donuts. One snowy night at a high school dance my friend blew the transmission on his parent's car doing donuts. I felt so bad for him...I was sure his parents would disown him. I don't remember any Def Leppard but it wouldn't surprise me.
posted by ashbury at 4:36 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by ashbury at 4:36 PM on July 5, 2012
Squeeze and suck sounds pretty awesome, actually! Oh wait, what are we talking about?
posted by ashbury at 4:37 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by ashbury at 4:37 PM on July 5, 2012
Ha! Good for them. I own some of their albums and will buy these for nostalgia's sake. :)
posted by zarq at 4:38 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by zarq at 4:38 PM on July 5, 2012
It was not warmly received.
Yeah but there is a vast difference between the reasoning behind these two situations.
posted by elizardbits at 4:41 PM on July 5, 2012
Yeah but there is a vast difference between the reasoning behind these two situations.
posted by elizardbits at 4:41 PM on July 5, 2012
If I were them, I'd totally use the original recordings and claim they were just really good re-recordings, but I'm lazy that way.
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 4:43 PM on July 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by El Sabor Asiatico at 4:43 PM on July 5, 2012 [8 favorites]
Three reasons why Def Leppard is actually awesome, embodied by the video for Foolin':
4) This is the song that goes through my head whenever anyone makes the "more cowbell" joke.
I'll be surprised if they can resist making "improvements" to the songs that fans don't want improved.
posted by straight at 4:44 PM on July 5, 2012
4) This is the song that goes through my head whenever anyone makes the "more cowbell" joke.
I'll be surprised if they can resist making "improvements" to the songs that fans don't want improved.
posted by straight at 4:44 PM on July 5, 2012
...blowing snowy donuts...
I heard Stevie Nicks was into that.
posted by The Tensor at 4:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
I heard Stevie Nicks was into that.
posted by The Tensor at 4:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Although I suppose "Daguerrotype" would be more accurate.
I'm outta luck, outta love
Gotta daguerreotype, tintype of
Nicéphore, you're too much
You're the only one I wanna touch
posted by scody at 4:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [10 favorites]
I'm outta luck, outta love
Gotta daguerreotype, tintype of
Nicéphore, you're too much
You're the only one I wanna touch
posted by scody at 4:47 PM on July 5, 2012 [10 favorites]
Not a fan of the music either, but this rules! They took what Sharon Osbourne did (rerecorded the bass and drums on early Ozzy albums to cut guys she didn't like out of royalties), and used it for good!
posted by ignignokt at 4:49 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by ignignokt at 4:49 PM on July 5, 2012
Yeah but there is a vast difference
No argument here. I should've emphasized the 'kinda' more.
"Saturday Night (High & Dry)" is the best non-AC/DC AC/DC ever.
I'd say it's 'Balls to the Wall.' I mean, it's about balls.
posted by box at 4:51 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
No argument here. I should've emphasized the 'kinda' more.
"Saturday Night (High & Dry)" is the best non-AC/DC AC/DC ever.
I'd say it's 'Balls to the Wall.' I mean, it's about balls.
posted by box at 4:51 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
Accept's best song was 'Restless & Wild" actually, but I standby my High & Dry endorsement.
posted by jonmc at 4:53 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by jonmc at 4:53 PM on July 5, 2012
I had a listen to the new Pour Some Sugar and it's a pretty amazing piece of work to be able to recreate that so faithfully, and pretty amazing that they did it without Mutt Lange because I always figured he pretty much caused that sound to happen. But I could tell you which version I was listening to from any two second clip and it does the same thing the Ozzy stuff did, there's something jarring in every single beat that's just not quite what my ears expect to hear.
posted by Wolfdog at 4:55 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by Wolfdog at 4:55 PM on July 5, 2012
Like Prince taking a symbol for his name to dodge a contract, this is brilliant.
They deserve a hand for this.
Well, the drummer at least.
posted by plinth at 4:57 PM on July 5, 2012
They deserve a hand for this.
Well, the drummer at least.
posted by plinth at 4:57 PM on July 5, 2012
They sure do play the shit out of some I, IV, and V even in 2012.
posted by Wolfdog at 4:58 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 4:58 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
Blue Öyster Cult did something similar back in the 1990s, I suspect because of record label problems.
posted by fings at 5:04 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by fings at 5:04 PM on July 5, 2012
Very cool story. Reminds me of Pink Floyd (well, David Gilmour) re-recording Money for A Collection of Great Dance Songs.
Wikipedia:
Wikipedia:
The song was re-recorded for the 1981 Pink Floyd album, A Collection of Great Dance Songs, because Capitol Records refused to license the track to Columbia Records in the US. With the help of producer James Guthrie, Gilmour re-recorded the song, providing vocals and playing all the instruments except saxophone. Dick Parry again contributed the sax solo, reprising his role on the original recording.posted by The Deej at 5:06 PM on July 5, 2012
True story...
As a teen, i loved Def Leppard and we used to write the names of our favourite bands on our pencil cases. So obviously i wrote their name.
However, not having access to any of their albums at the time (this was during Hysteria, when almost the entire A side was playing on the radio), I had no idea how to spell their name.
So for almost a year, my pencil case paid hommage to a hard -of -hearing feline
posted by bitteroldman at 5:09 PM on July 5, 2012 [18 favorites]
As a teen, i loved Def Leppard and we used to write the names of our favourite bands on our pencil cases. So obviously i wrote their name.
However, not having access to any of their albums at the time (this was during Hysteria, when almost the entire A side was playing on the radio), I had no idea how to spell their name.
So for almost a year, my pencil case paid hommage to a hard -of -hearing feline
posted by bitteroldman at 5:09 PM on July 5, 2012 [18 favorites]
Not too long ago, I was bemoaning the fact that I couldn't get copies of Pyromania or Hysteria digitally. PROBLEM SOLVED
posted by Lucinda at 5:09 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by Lucinda at 5:09 PM on July 5, 2012
There's a bunch of 80s metal and punk that sounds like it was recorded underwater with the signal routed into a transistor radio attached to a voice recorder in a greeting card
AND THAT'S HOW WE LIKE IT!
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:11 PM on July 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
AND THAT'S HOW WE LIKE IT!
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:11 PM on July 5, 2012 [9 favorites]
I'm not sure I would say the Squeeze remake album (Spot the Difference) sucked. They did a reasonably good job of mimicking the old stuff. But the differences are still pretty glaring to my ears. It's fine, but I admit I'd rather hear the originals.
posted by litlnemo at 5:15 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by litlnemo at 5:15 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
As others have noted, this is a really old practice and the new recordings are never as good as the originals. (The fact that some of you think this is remotely new makes me feel very old.)
posted by entropicamericana at 5:35 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by entropicamericana at 5:35 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
I tend to side with artists by default. That said, I'd like to know how much exactly they consider "a fair amount of money" before cheering too loudly.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:38 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by IndigoJones at 5:38 PM on July 5, 2012
That said, I'd like to know how much exactly they consider "a fair amount of money" before cheering too loudly.
I'm fine with any amount up to and including all of it.
posted by eyeballkid at 6:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm fine with any amount up to and including all of it.
posted by eyeballkid at 6:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Quite a bit of rerecording and remixing of Pink Floyd's A Collection of Great Dance Songs occurred due to label/artist asshattery, including a version of "Money" in which all of the instruments other than saxophone were played by David Gilmore.
By the way, Pyromania is an awesome album with some of the best AC/DC and Aerosmith songs of the decade. There. I said it.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:06 PM on July 5, 2012
By the way, Pyromania is an awesome album with some of the best AC/DC and Aerosmith songs of the decade. There. I said it.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:06 PM on July 5, 2012
Many years ago, we were wandering through the woods and we heard some some music. We followed the sound and came upon a campfire. We asked them what they were playing on the tape deck, and they said 'Def Leppard; Pyromania'. There was one song with a nice acoustic guitar intro. Which song is that?
posted by ovvl at 6:07 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by ovvl at 6:07 PM on July 5, 2012
Gordon Lightfoot released a Greatest Hits album called Gord's Gold in 1975, for which he re-recorded all the songs because, as stated in the liner notes, "he doesn't like listening to his early work."
posted by chococat at 6:19 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by chococat at 6:19 PM on July 5, 2012
I'm not sure I would say the Squeeze remake album (Spot the Difference) sucked. They did a reasonably good job of mimicking the old stuff. But the differences are still pretty glaring to my ears. It's fine, but I admit I'd rather hear the originals.
It sucked (for me) because for anyone who knows and loves the original recordings, the new recordings are both similar and different enought that you're continually aware that you're listening to the 'wrong' version. It's pretty much impossible to be 'in the moment' with the new versions if you know the old versions. All you hear are the differences.
It's the musical uncanny valley.
posted by unSane at 6:22 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
It sucked (for me) because for anyone who knows and loves the original recordings, the new recordings are both similar and different enought that you're continually aware that you're listening to the 'wrong' version. It's pretty much impossible to be 'in the moment' with the new versions if you know the old versions. All you hear are the differences.
It's the musical uncanny valley.
posted by unSane at 6:22 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Which song is that?
I think it's Foolin'?
If anyone had asked me what the subject of thread of the month that brought all MeFi members together in the spirit of peace and harmony, I would have never in a million years guessed it was Def Leppard.
posted by jessamyn at 6:23 PM on July 5, 2012 [39 favorites]
I think it's Foolin'?
If anyone had asked me what the subject of thread of the month that brought all MeFi members together in the spirit of peace and harmony, I would have never in a million years guessed it was Def Leppard.
posted by jessamyn at 6:23 PM on July 5, 2012 [39 favorites]
Gordon Lightfoot released a Greatest Hits album called Gord's Gold in 1975, for which he re-recorded all the songs because, as stated in the liner notes, "he doesn't like listening to his early work."
I know how he feels. I don't like listening to any of his work.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 6:29 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
I know how he feels. I don't like listening to any of his work.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 6:29 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
By the way, Pyromania is an awesome album with some of the best AC/DC and Aerosmith songs of the decade. There. I said it.
I get ya, but I dunno if anybody could've sung "Photograph' better than Joe Elliot did.
posted by jonmc at 6:35 PM on July 5, 2012
I get ya, but I dunno if anybody could've sung "Photograph' better than Joe Elliot did.
posted by jonmc at 6:35 PM on July 5, 2012
That said: What has nine arms and sucks?
I am disappointed to be unable to find online a photo I saw ages ago of a toilet wall on which someone had scrawled that joke, only for someone else to amend it to:
Q: What has 9 arms and sucks cock?
A: Def Leppard
A: Your mom * 4.5
posted by MUD at 6:35 PM on July 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
I am disappointed to be unable to find online a photo I saw ages ago of a toilet wall on which someone had scrawled that joke, only for someone else to amend it to:
Q: What has 9 arms and sucks cock?
A: Your mom * 4.5
posted by MUD at 6:35 PM on July 5, 2012 [6 favorites]
Right after the Squeeze re-do came out, I noticed that one of the streaming services (Pandora I think?) was showing Spot the Difference as the cover art, but was playing the original. I agree with others here who agree that the differences are clear and immediate to a fan.
So did Pandora switch cover art, and pay royalties on the new track, whilst not actually swapping out the track itself? If so, good on them.
posted by easement1 at 6:38 PM on July 5, 2012
So did Pandora switch cover art, and pay royalties on the new track, whilst not actually swapping out the track itself? If so, good on them.
posted by easement1 at 6:38 PM on July 5, 2012
I am not a Def Leppard fan by any stretch of the imagination, but every interview I've seen with them, and now this "forgery" idea they're doing, suggests that they're just a really great group of guys.
I was a huge Def Leppard fan in the early 80s. After Hysteria ('87), though, I thought they were washed up.
But, then in the early 90s, I got a gig working as stage crew for them. It was only a few shows - long story short, I rand out of money to travel, and so, I went home.
Anyway, there wasn't anything about it more notable than that, really except there were a couple of times the band would come out and thanks us and shake our hands and well. I lost most of the memorabilia I did collect in a fire in 96. Some Polaroids and autographs.
They were always really cool and awesome guys. I think they get up every day feeling like they can't believe they get paid for this shit. Maybe they were acting, but, I dunno.... I just can't think so.
I try to see them every time they go by. I wish maybe I'd stuck with the stage crew thing.
I also wish I could still listen to On Through the Night and think it was profound music of our time. They were so amazing.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:43 PM on July 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
I was a huge Def Leppard fan in the early 80s. After Hysteria ('87), though, I thought they were washed up.
But, then in the early 90s, I got a gig working as stage crew for them. It was only a few shows - long story short, I rand out of money to travel, and so, I went home.
Anyway, there wasn't anything about it more notable than that, really except there were a couple of times the band would come out and thanks us and shake our hands and well. I lost most of the memorabilia I did collect in a fire in 96. Some Polaroids and autographs.
They were always really cool and awesome guys. I think they get up every day feeling like they can't believe they get paid for this shit. Maybe they were acting, but, I dunno.... I just can't think so.
I try to see them every time they go by. I wish maybe I'd stuck with the stage crew thing.
I also wish I could still listen to On Through the Night and think it was profound music of our time. They were so amazing.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:43 PM on July 5, 2012 [14 favorites]
Cracker re-recorded their songs for Greatest Hits Redux because their label didn't involve them in making Get on with It: The Best of Cracker; the band released their best-of on the same day.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by kirkaracha at 6:56 PM on July 5, 2012
Came here to tell all the Def Leppard haters to suck it. They put on a much better show than any of you do. :)
Also, good for them. This is awesome.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:02 PM on July 5, 2012
Also, good for them. This is awesome.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 7:02 PM on July 5, 2012
They have always struck me as fundamentally decent guys, too. I mean, they stuck with their drummer after he lost his arm in a car crash, because he was their drummer. That's friggin' awesome.
Love Bites has been one of my biggest guilty pleasures ever since it was on the radio back in the 80's. I'm not a hair metal dude at all, but for some reason, that song gets me. It's a fantastic progression & it's right up there with Don't Stop Belevin' on the list of songs I just shouldn't like, but fuckit, I love 'em, anyway.
Also, they're sticking it to THE MAN. so cool. I will buy the shit out of these forgeries.
Also so glad this thread didn't descend into cheap dismissive snark.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:31 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Love Bites has been one of my biggest guilty pleasures ever since it was on the radio back in the 80's. I'm not a hair metal dude at all, but for some reason, that song gets me. It's a fantastic progression & it's right up there with Don't Stop Belevin' on the list of songs I just shouldn't like, but fuckit, I love 'em, anyway.
Also, they're sticking it to THE MAN. so cool. I will buy the shit out of these forgeries.
Also so glad this thread didn't descend into cheap dismissive snark.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:31 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
True story: in 1983, Def Leppard was on tour, and played El Paso TX one night and Tucson AZ the next night, and during that concert, they said that El Paso was the place with all the "greasy Mexicans".
And, well, the uproar that followed in the greater El Paso area (of which my hometown of Las Cruces is a part, and this was during my high school years) was enormous. No, bigger than that: gigantic. No, maybe even better.
There were album burnings, the band was banned from playing that venue (possibly the city) ever again. I lived in Las Cruces until 1996, and can't remember hearing Def Leppard on any El Paso or Las Cruces radio station after that incident.
Don't believe me? There's an entire website devoted to this incident filled with source material. (Pretty awesome for something which happened back in the early BBS days, if you ask me.)
Anyway, I never cared much for the bombast of DL's music even before that incident, but have basically ignored them since then.
This is an amusing thing, and I wish them well, but yeah... don't need that in my life.
posted by hippybear at 7:35 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
And, well, the uproar that followed in the greater El Paso area (of which my hometown of Las Cruces is a part, and this was during my high school years) was enormous. No, bigger than that: gigantic. No, maybe even better.
There were album burnings, the band was banned from playing that venue (possibly the city) ever again. I lived in Las Cruces until 1996, and can't remember hearing Def Leppard on any El Paso or Las Cruces radio station after that incident.
Don't believe me? There's an entire website devoted to this incident filled with source material. (Pretty awesome for something which happened back in the early BBS days, if you ask me.)
Anyway, I never cared much for the bombast of DL's music even before that incident, but have basically ignored them since then.
This is an amusing thing, and I wish them well, but yeah... don't need that in my life.
posted by hippybear at 7:35 PM on July 5, 2012 [4 favorites]
This is not the first time this has been done, is it?
I've got rough mixes of an abortive attempt by Cheap Trick to re-record In Color that I really wished they'd finished. The version of Oh Caroline in those mixes is amazing. Steve Albini helmed the sessions. sure wish the finished product had seen the light of day.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:40 PM on July 5, 2012
I've got rough mixes of an abortive attempt by Cheap Trick to re-record In Color that I really wished they'd finished. The version of Oh Caroline in those mixes is amazing. Steve Albini helmed the sessions. sure wish the finished product had seen the light of day.
posted by Devils Rancher at 7:40 PM on July 5, 2012
I'm frankly surprised this isn't illegal.
This is why I've come to the conclusion that copyright needs to just go away. People have become conditioned to the idea that a band can't legally record their own material.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:43 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
This is why I've come to the conclusion that copyright needs to just go away. People have become conditioned to the idea that a band can't legally record their own material.
posted by ChurchHatesTucker at 7:43 PM on July 5, 2012 [5 favorites]
I've got rough mixes of an abortive attempt by Cheap Trick to re-record In Color that I really wished they'd finished.
*neck snaps* Wait, WHAT?!!
posted by scody at 7:44 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
*neck snaps* Wait, WHAT?!!
posted by scody at 7:44 PM on July 5, 2012 [1 favorite]
Youtube presents Def Leppard. 37 minute concert. It's kinda low-key. Here's the time index for Pour Some Sugar on Me.
I wonder how the Forgeries will sound, because I hate to say it, but Elliot's voice sounds shot. Listen to him on the original concert video of Armageddon It, and compare it to the Pour Some Sugar section of the video above. He doesn't have the power or intensity he used to. Like Meatloaf, the magic isn't quite there anymore.
posted by zarq at 7:53 PM on July 5, 2012
I wonder how the Forgeries will sound, because I hate to say it, but Elliot's voice sounds shot. Listen to him on the original concert video of Armageddon It, and compare it to the Pour Some Sugar section of the video above. He doesn't have the power or intensity he used to. Like Meatloaf, the magic isn't quite there anymore.
posted by zarq at 7:53 PM on July 5, 2012
Journey fairly recently re-recorded all their big hits with their new lead singer and then put them out with the album the new singer debuted on. I don't think it was an attempt to do an end run around Columbia Records, however; I think it was more of a "hey look how uncannily the new dude sounds like Steve Perry, come see us in concert" thing.
To answer a question from earlier in the thread, it's no illegal for a band to cover itself, any more than it's illegal for any band to cover any song; as long as you pay the mechanical royalties, pretty much anyone can cover any song, any time they like. As the band (which if I remember correctly wrote most of their material) own the songwriting copyrights and publishing for their songs, they would essentially be paying themselves for the right to cover the tunes, if they even bothered to break it out like that at all.
posted by jscalzi at 7:54 PM on July 5, 2012
To answer a question from earlier in the thread, it's no illegal for a band to cover itself, any more than it's illegal for any band to cover any song; as long as you pay the mechanical royalties, pretty much anyone can cover any song, any time they like. As the band (which if I remember correctly wrote most of their material) own the songwriting copyrights and publishing for their songs, they would essentially be paying themselves for the right to cover the tunes, if they even bothered to break it out like that at all.
posted by jscalzi at 7:54 PM on July 5, 2012
"Lookin' like a lover with a red iPhone..."
posted by mrbill at 8:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by mrbill at 8:02 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I wonder if they can ever sound as raw as this...
BTW, Overture is one or my favorite songs ever, and really, my introduction into prog rock. From there, it was YES and Genesis and Rush and .....
It's gonna be long night on youtube, I think.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:06 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
J Random Band only has to properly credit the original songwriters when they record a cover version of a song, so that the songwriting royalties that accrue to the writer as a result of any public performances (radio airplay, etc) of the cover version make it back to them.
Once you've published a song, anyone can cover or re-interpret it as they see fit. They just can't claim that they wrote it (see Led Zeppelin v Howlin' Wolf or George Harrison v The Chiffons)
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:09 PM on July 5, 2012
Once you've published a song, anyone can cover or re-interpret it as they see fit. They just can't claim that they wrote it (see Led Zeppelin v Howlin' Wolf or George Harrison v The Chiffons)
posted by Devils Rancher at 8:09 PM on July 5, 2012
I wonder how the Forgeries will sound, because I hate to say it, but Elliot's voice sounds shot.
I just downloaded them and am listening to "Rock of Ages" right now, and Elliot comes pretty close. His range is definitely not entirely what it was in his 20s*; for example, you can hear that his voice is gruffer and less elastic on the parts where he's closer to what is probably his speaking voice, such as at the beginning at the song ("I got somethin' to say"), rather than the where he needs to quickly pull up into his screech ("no serenade, no fire brigade / just pyromania"), but I have to say it sounds a lot closer than I thought it would. Though admittedly I say this as a moderate fan and not a fanatical fan who's listened to every note obsessively for the past 25+ years (beware, Paul Weller: you will NOT be able to fool me with a 21st-century attempted simulacrum of Jam or Style Council songs).
In any case, that's 2 bucks to Def Leppard that Universal won't get, which makes me happy. Bring on the first several albums!
*Speaking of singers in their 50s trying to sing like they did in their 20s, in my opinion (and funnily enough, since Devils Rancher just brought up Cheap Trick) Robin Zander seems to have maintained his range to a pretty astonishing degree. I've seen them live several times recently, and I swear to god that guy made some sort of Dorian Gray deal for his voice.
posted by scody at 8:12 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I just downloaded them and am listening to "Rock of Ages" right now, and Elliot comes pretty close. His range is definitely not entirely what it was in his 20s*; for example, you can hear that his voice is gruffer and less elastic on the parts where he's closer to what is probably his speaking voice, such as at the beginning at the song ("I got somethin' to say"), rather than the where he needs to quickly pull up into his screech ("no serenade, no fire brigade / just pyromania"), but I have to say it sounds a lot closer than I thought it would. Though admittedly I say this as a moderate fan and not a fanatical fan who's listened to every note obsessively for the past 25+ years (beware, Paul Weller: you will NOT be able to fool me with a 21st-century attempted simulacrum of Jam or Style Council songs).
In any case, that's 2 bucks to Def Leppard that Universal won't get, which makes me happy. Bring on the first several albums!
*Speaking of singers in their 50s trying to sing like they did in their 20s, in my opinion (and funnily enough, since Devils Rancher just brought up Cheap Trick) Robin Zander seems to have maintained his range to a pretty astonishing degree. I've seen them live several times recently, and I swear to god that guy made some sort of Dorian Gray deal for his voice.
posted by scody at 8:12 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
scody's quoting of those lyrics woke up my mental DJ in a big way.
It's Friday, and I think I'm going to have to drink some beer and listen to some early Def Leppard tonight.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:24 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's Friday, and I think I'm going to have to drink some beer and listen to some early Def Leppard tonight.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:24 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
Okay, now I'm listening to "Pour Some Sugar On Me," and it's clearer that it's a later vocal, because so much of the song is sung at the bottom of his range, rather than mid-to-high in his range. The chorus sounds really close to the original to me, but the verses make it clear that it's a recent rerecording. It's funny, though, that I was totally expecting that it was his upper range that was going to betray it. (Though I don't know enough about singing to know if this is really counterintuitive or not.)
The guitar sounds fucking great (to my non-technical ears), though.
posted by scody at 8:26 PM on July 5, 2012
The guitar sounds fucking great (to my non-technical ears), though.
posted by scody at 8:26 PM on July 5, 2012
Awesome. Thank you, scody. :)
scody: "Robin Zander seems to have maintained his range to a pretty astonishing degree. I've seen them live several times recently, and I swear to god that guy made some sort of Dorian Gray deal for his voice."
Sold his soul to the devil, eh? :)
I saw Twisted Sister in concert last year... (this was taped at that performance.) Was never a huge fan, but... man, Dee Snider must take very good care of himself because his energy, power and range (well, as much range as a guy who shouts most of his songs can muster,) were very impressive.
It's strange, going to concerts in the age of YouTube, when the audience taping a performance with their cameras is now ignored by most bands. There are at least 6 or 7 videos available of "We're Not Gonna Take It" from that one specific concert. It's unbelievable.
posted by zarq at 8:35 PM on July 5, 2012
scody: "Robin Zander seems to have maintained his range to a pretty astonishing degree. I've seen them live several times recently, and I swear to god that guy made some sort of Dorian Gray deal for his voice."
Sold his soul to the devil, eh? :)
I saw Twisted Sister in concert last year... (this was taped at that performance.) Was never a huge fan, but... man, Dee Snider must take very good care of himself because his energy, power and range (well, as much range as a guy who shouts most of his songs can muster,) were very impressive.
It's strange, going to concerts in the age of YouTube, when the audience taping a performance with their cameras is now ignored by most bands. There are at least 6 or 7 videos available of "We're Not Gonna Take It" from that one specific concert. It's unbelievable.
posted by zarq at 8:35 PM on July 5, 2012
Ah, Hysteria, you got me through so many sixth grade bus rides with my walkman. I'll never forget the time I fashioned crude drum sticks out of the long part of two plastic clothes hangars for air drumming to you. (And how it tore up my young hands since I neglected to notice how sharp and abrasive the seam left by the injection molding process was.)
posted by Rhomboid at 8:45 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by Rhomboid at 8:45 PM on July 5, 2012
Once you've published a song, anyone can cover or re-interpret it as they see fit.
Not quite true. The standard, statutory, license only covers covers (see what I did there??) which use the same lyrics and melody line as the original. If you want to cange the lyrics or the melody then you have to negotiate separately, and the rights holder can say 'no'.
I can't even remember why I know this but it was something to do with a band I was in wanting to record a whacky cover of something for a compilation, only to realize it was too much trouble.
posted by unSane at 9:15 PM on July 5, 2012
Not quite true. The standard, statutory, license only covers covers (see what I did there??) which use the same lyrics and melody line as the original. If you want to cange the lyrics or the melody then you have to negotiate separately, and the rights holder can say 'no'.
I can't even remember why I know this but it was something to do with a band I was in wanting to record a whacky cover of something for a compilation, only to realize it was too much trouble.
posted by unSane at 9:15 PM on July 5, 2012
I was going to crack wise that the band would "accidentally" forget to re-record Slang, but it appears that I'm the fool here as it will be re-released with extra tracks at some point.
posted by stannate at 9:18 PM on July 5, 2012
posted by stannate at 9:18 PM on July 5, 2012
Ah, i knew there was a caveat about the lyrics -- there was a hoopla about Roky Erickson changing the lyrics to Baby Blue back in the 60's, though it was apparently an inadvertant memory lapse.
How did The Butthole Surfers get away with their cover of American Woman, I wonder? Can you use some but not all of the lyrics, so long as you don't alter the ones you do use? (Just curiosity, as demolition/reconstruction covers are some of my favorite things)
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:20 PM on July 5, 2012
How did The Butthole Surfers get away with their cover of American Woman, I wonder? Can you use some but not all of the lyrics, so long as you don't alter the ones you do use? (Just curiosity, as demolition/reconstruction covers are some of my favorite things)
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:20 PM on July 5, 2012
How did The Butthole Surfers get away with their cover of American Woman, I wonder? Can you use some but not all of the lyrics, so long as you don't alter the ones you do use?
There is a bit of a loophole for parody/satire. Weird Al could claim pretty much universal license under this clause, but generally doesn't. (With rare exception, he gets permission, and frequently when he doesn't he posts the parody track for free so he can't be accused of making money off of it. I think the only artist he's never dared to push the line with is Prince.)
There also is an issue of "transformation" of the original material, or something. And also taking into consideration whether the new version is going to somehow be mistaken for the source material.
This was well established in the 2 Live Crew SCOTUS case.
posted by hippybear at 9:26 PM on July 5, 2012
There is a bit of a loophole for parody/satire. Weird Al could claim pretty much universal license under this clause, but generally doesn't. (With rare exception, he gets permission, and frequently when he doesn't he posts the parody track for free so he can't be accused of making money off of it. I think the only artist he's never dared to push the line with is Prince.)
There also is an issue of "transformation" of the original material, or something. And also taking into consideration whether the new version is going to somehow be mistaken for the source material.
This was well established in the 2 Live Crew SCOTUS case.
posted by hippybear at 9:26 PM on July 5, 2012
I read that Zeppeli's contract was written so that Atlantic was "leasing" the band's songs and thus the band controlled EVERYTHING. Which is why they went for years without having to mess with iTunes or even a greatest hits collection. Anytime the label wants to do anything they still have to submit it to three guys who are too rich to care about this shit. AC/DC exercises similar control and Angus is a lot shrewder than that schoolboy outfit might suggest.
posted by Ber at 9:29 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Ber at 9:29 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure I would say the Squeeze remake album (Spot the Difference) sucked. They did a reasonably good job of mimicking the old stuff. But the differences are still pretty glaring to my ears. It's fine, but I admit I'd rather hear the originals.
I prefer the Chris Difford solo versions on South East Side Story myself.
Styx is currently doing (or maybe has just finished doing) a project called Regenerations, which is them recording their classic hits with their current lineup, featuring a guy named Lawrence Gowan in the role formerly played by Dennis DeYoung, and IMO doing a fantastic job of it. As I understand it, their project has more to do with making sure the fans have the current lineup recordings/the royalties go to the current lineup (i.e., to Gowan and not to DeYoung) and not to a record company dispute. They're not exactly the same, but I've enjoyed the new versions.
posted by immlass at 10:31 PM on July 5, 2012
I prefer the Chris Difford solo versions on South East Side Story myself.
Styx is currently doing (or maybe has just finished doing) a project called Regenerations, which is them recording their classic hits with their current lineup, featuring a guy named Lawrence Gowan in the role formerly played by Dennis DeYoung, and IMO doing a fantastic job of it. As I understand it, their project has more to do with making sure the fans have the current lineup recordings/the royalties go to the current lineup (i.e., to Gowan and not to DeYoung) and not to a record company dispute. They're not exactly the same, but I've enjoyed the new versions.
posted by immlass at 10:31 PM on July 5, 2012
pretty amazing that they did it without Mutt Lange because I always figured he pretty much caused that sound to happen
From what I understand, Mutt Lange influenced the songwriting, the piece-by-piece recording process, and generally, the process of getting from demos to finished products. What the band has done is re-create the finished product with the same blueprints, but with older (and in Steve/Vivian's case, different) musicians. Maybe these re-recordings include takes that Mutt would've rejected. But otherwise, the forgeries are arguably another result of the work Mutt already did with the band.
posted by germdisco at 10:53 PM on July 5, 2012
From what I understand, Mutt Lange influenced the songwriting, the piece-by-piece recording process, and generally, the process of getting from demos to finished products. What the band has done is re-create the finished product with the same blueprints, but with older (and in Steve/Vivian's case, different) musicians. Maybe these re-recordings include takes that Mutt would've rejected. But otherwise, the forgeries are arguably another result of the work Mutt already did with the band.
posted by germdisco at 10:53 PM on July 5, 2012
Gowan's a strange animal.
posted by salishsea at 11:48 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by salishsea at 11:48 PM on July 5, 2012 [2 favorites]
/throws credit card at screen
take the money
all of the money
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:52 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
take the money
all of the money
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:52 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
They better get Thomas Dolby back to do the keyboard parts on the re-recording of _Pyromania_, is all.
posted by SansPoint at 4:45 AM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 4:45 AM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just stick it to the Man? What, without having heard the Man's side of the story? Kind of prejudicial, wouldn't you say? I mean, without the Man, these guys would probably be just another garage band you've never heard of. However evil the Man may be (and that's unproven in this case), he was instrumental in getting these guys to where they are today.
What this kind of reminds me of is Mr and Mrs Osbourne re-dubbing bits of Black Sabbath albums so they didn't have to deal with pesky old band members. And incidentally make a lot more money for themselves. Legal, apparently, but it still reeked.
Perhaps the circs here are different, but until we've heard from the other side, can we at least reserve judgement? At the very least they could have taken this to arbitration.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:24 AM on July 6, 2012
What this kind of reminds me of is Mr and Mrs Osbourne re-dubbing bits of Black Sabbath albums so they didn't have to deal with pesky old band members. And incidentally make a lot more money for themselves. Legal, apparently, but it still reeked.
Perhaps the circs here are different, but until we've heard from the other side, can we at least reserve judgement? At the very least they could have taken this to arbitration.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:24 AM on July 6, 2012
I'm going to have to step in here and defend "Slang" a little. As a long-time Def Leppard fan I'm not going to argue that it's one of their better works, but I'd like to argue that it gets the same kind of undeserved scorn Van Halen III does. In both cases, the bands were trying to move away from their signature sound and break some new musical ground. I think it's quite reasonable to say that neither album really worked as coherent entities, and that both could be considered failures, but I kind of hate to criticize artists who made an effort to change with the times instead of just recording "Hysteria II" (I'm looking at you, "Adrenalize") or "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge 12". Both albums may have been conceived and recorded in an attempt to stay relevant, and maybe that's one reason they didn't really gel, but I think that it's good for musicians to push themselves in different directions. If nothing else, those albums gave us "Slang" (as catchy a song as Def Leppard ever recorded) and "From Afar" (Sting wishes "Every Breath You Take" was that creepy).
I saw Def Leppard years ago in Baton Rouge, probably on the "Adrenalize" tour, and they were about 1,000 times better than I expected given how...processed..."Hysteria" and "Adrenalize" are. Really a great show.
posted by wintermind at 5:36 AM on July 6, 2012
I saw Def Leppard years ago in Baton Rouge, probably on the "Adrenalize" tour, and they were about 1,000 times better than I expected given how...processed..."Hysteria" and "Adrenalize" are. Really a great show.
posted by wintermind at 5:36 AM on July 6, 2012
Styx is currently doing (or maybe has just finished doing) a project called Regenerations, which is them recording their classic hits with their current lineup, featuring a guy named Lawrence Gowan in the role formerly played by Dennis DeYoung, and IMO doing a fantastic job of it.
I actually saw Styx in concert a couple of summers ago, and have only entirely good things to say about the experience. Far from being a jukebox of greatest hits, they performed deep cuts and lengthy extended versions and generally completely rocked. It was a free show when I saw them, but I'd happily part with a not insubstantial amount of money to see them again. I highly recommend catching them live for anyone who is a fan of their music, because I think you will be the complete opposite of disappointed.
posted by hippybear at 5:46 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I actually saw Styx in concert a couple of summers ago, and have only entirely good things to say about the experience. Far from being a jukebox of greatest hits, they performed deep cuts and lengthy extended versions and generally completely rocked. It was a free show when I saw them, but I'd happily part with a not insubstantial amount of money to see them again. I highly recommend catching them live for anyone who is a fan of their music, because I think you will be the complete opposite of disappointed.
posted by hippybear at 5:46 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Oh man, Dennis DeYoung is playing a free concert as part of our town's summer "music under the stars" series. I am so going to be there.
posted by uncleozzy at 6:00 AM on July 6, 2012
posted by uncleozzy at 6:00 AM on July 6, 2012
I love the idea, but am ambivalent about Def Leppard and this generally.
For some reason I love hearing live recordings of a band doing straight versions of 10-20 year old songs (usually with a much different line-up) in their current sound/aesthetic. But I am almost always underwhelmed (at best, and sometimes/often disgusted) by the results when they do the same in the studio. I can only think of two occasions (two songs) where I thought the re-recorded/updated version was as good or superior.
posted by K.P. at 6:14 AM on July 6, 2012
For some reason I love hearing live recordings of a band doing straight versions of 10-20 year old songs (usually with a much different line-up) in their current sound/aesthetic. But I am almost always underwhelmed (at best, and sometimes/often disgusted) by the results when they do the same in the studio. I can only think of two occasions (two songs) where I thought the re-recorded/updated version was as good or superior.
posted by K.P. at 6:14 AM on July 6, 2012
I've got rough mixes of an abortive attempt by Cheap Trick to re-record In Color that I really wished they'd finished. The version of Oh Caroline in those mixes is amazing. Steve Albini helmed the sessions. sure wish the finished product had seen the light of day.
WHAT
Holy Cow, how did I not know such a thing existed ??!!?? Well, there goes the rest of my day while I look for it.
And yeah, it's not at all uncommon for a band to re-record their own songs. I've worked with a bunch of 50's - 60's acts who have done that. In those cases, though, they're not all that interested in sonically "cloning" the originals, and I suspect their financial incentives are: 1) to have some product to push at their live shows and on the website; 2) their mechanical royalty situation is such a tangled mess of labels bought, sold and absorbed that it's virtually impossible for them to collect royalties from the originals; 3) even if all of that could be sorted out, whichever label would be paying them royalties has little interest in promoting 50-year-old acts, so for all that they had Number 1 hits, at this point they're on their own.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:17 AM on July 6, 2012
WHAT
Holy Cow, how did I not know such a thing existed ??!!?? Well, there goes the rest of my day while I look for it.
And yeah, it's not at all uncommon for a band to re-record their own songs. I've worked with a bunch of 50's - 60's acts who have done that. In those cases, though, they're not all that interested in sonically "cloning" the originals, and I suspect their financial incentives are: 1) to have some product to push at their live shows and on the website; 2) their mechanical royalty situation is such a tangled mess of labels bought, sold and absorbed that it's virtually impossible for them to collect royalties from the originals; 3) even if all of that could be sorted out, whichever label would be paying them royalties has little interest in promoting 50-year-old acts, so for all that they had Number 1 hits, at this point they're on their own.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:17 AM on July 6, 2012
Holy Cow, how did I not know such a thing ( an abortive attempt by Cheap Trick to re-record In Color) existed ??!!?? Well, there goes the rest of my day while I look for it.
Found in 10 seconds with SoulSeek.
posted by K.P. at 6:24 AM on July 6, 2012
Found in 10 seconds with SoulSeek.
posted by K.P. at 6:24 AM on July 6, 2012
Phil Collen's brave, steadfast resistance to '80s hairstyles
I have a very small list of guys who look better now than they did back in the 80's, and he's on it.
posted by Lucinda at 6:27 AM on July 6, 2012
I have a very small list of guys who look better now than they did back in the 80's, and he's on it.
posted by Lucinda at 6:27 AM on July 6, 2012
Cheers, K.P.
Also, just out of curiosity, what're the 2 songs where you think the re-recorded version is better?
posted by soundguy99 at 6:38 AM on July 6, 2012
Also, just out of curiosity, what're the 2 songs where you think the re-recorded version is better?
posted by soundguy99 at 6:38 AM on July 6, 2012
Every single human being on earth looks better now than they did back in the 80s. Everyone. Even the dead people. The 80s were a heinously fugly decade.
posted by elizardbits at 8:22 AM on July 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 8:22 AM on July 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
Except Cyndi Lauper. She looks EXACTLY THE SAME (albeit with less insane hair and makeup). Bless her.
posted by Edison Carter at 8:28 AM on July 6, 2012
posted by Edison Carter at 8:28 AM on July 6, 2012
Unless, right now, you have frosted blond feathered hair and are wearing acid wash ripped jorts and an acid wash blazer with huge shoulder pads and leather slip-on keds, you look better now than anyone did in the 80s. I PROMISE YOU.
posted by elizardbits at 9:00 AM on July 6, 2012
posted by elizardbits at 9:00 AM on July 6, 2012
Unless, right now, you have frosted blond feathered hair and are wearing acid wash ripped jorts and an acid wash blazer with huge shoulder pads and leather slip-on keds, you look better now than anyone did in the 80s. I PROMISE YOU.
Well, no. I don't have slip-on keds.
posted by Edison Carter at 9:02 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Well, no. I don't have slip-on keds.
posted by Edison Carter at 9:02 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
What about fluorescent green/pink/yellow fingerless gloves?
posted by elizardbits at 9:05 AM on July 6, 2012
posted by elizardbits at 9:05 AM on July 6, 2012
That's moving the goalposts, elizardbits! OFF-LIMITS!
posted by Edison Carter at 9:10 AM on July 6, 2012
posted by Edison Carter at 9:10 AM on July 6, 2012
Brian Setzer hair and Joe Strummer-as-gay-activist bandana? Check. (Not pictured: plaid ankle jeans, with zippers at the ankles.)
posted by scody at 9:13 AM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by scody at 9:13 AM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I suppose if you wanted to be really specific, I should've said "aged well" rather than "look better now than they did back in the 80's".
I know *I* looked horrible back in in the 80's
am I using the "small" tag correctly?
making sure I close everything right
posted by Lucinda at 9:26 AM on July 6, 2012
I know *I* looked horrible back in in the 80's
am I using the "small" tag correctly?
making sure I close everything right
posted by Lucinda at 9:26 AM on July 6, 2012
Not pictured: plaid ankle jeans, with zippers at the ankles.
*swoon*
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:33 AM on July 6, 2012
*swoon*
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:33 AM on July 6, 2012
Oh, and back when I had hair, I had frosted spikes, a rat tail & a green smoking jacket.
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:36 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Devils Rancher at 9:36 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Accept's best song was 'Restless & Wild" actually,
Fast as a Shark.
posted by bongo_x at 9:41 AM on July 6, 2012
Fast as a Shark.
posted by bongo_x at 9:41 AM on July 6, 2012
I've got rough mixes of an abortive attempt by Cheap Trick to re-record In Color that I really wished they'd finished.
I think that was more about the fact that they thought the original was too wimpy, and it still bothered them. I thought the same when I were a lad, turns out we were all wrong. I thought they were redoing Heaven Tonight too, but I guess I made that up.
Robin Zander seems to have maintained his range to a pretty astonishing degree. I've seen them live several times recently, and I swear to god that guy made some sort of Dorian Gray deal for his voice.
He’s a freak of nature. I’ve seen them many times over the last 30 years or so, in arenas and small clubs were hardly anyone showed up. Every show was fantastic.
posted by bongo_x at 9:48 AM on July 6, 2012
I think that was more about the fact that they thought the original was too wimpy, and it still bothered them. I thought the same when I were a lad, turns out we were all wrong. I thought they were redoing Heaven Tonight too, but I guess I made that up.
Robin Zander seems to have maintained his range to a pretty astonishing degree. I've seen them live several times recently, and I swear to god that guy made some sort of Dorian Gray deal for his voice.
He’s a freak of nature. I’ve seen them many times over the last 30 years or so, in arenas and small clubs were hardly anyone showed up. Every show was fantastic.
posted by bongo_x at 9:48 AM on July 6, 2012
I've seen Cheap Trick twice, & the first time Tom Petersson kept a lit cigarette dangling from his lips the entire show. My Hero!
The last time I saw them, Rick Neilsen's son was drumming instead of Bun E. Carlos, but he was damn good, anyway. Also, Roger Joseph Manning, Jr. was playing keyboards, which was doubly awesome.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:00 AM on July 6, 2012
The last time I saw them, Rick Neilsen's son was drumming instead of Bun E. Carlos, but he was damn good, anyway. Also, Roger Joseph Manning, Jr. was playing keyboards, which was doubly awesome.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:00 AM on July 6, 2012
And yeah, it's not at all uncommon for a band to re-record their own songs. I've worked with a bunch of 50's - 60's acts who have done that. In those cases, though, they're not all that interested in sonically "cloning" the originals
There's an entire industry of re-recordings of this nature. I used to work for a label who sometimes made those kinds of records. The artists usually wanted to take the opportunity to "improve" upon the originals, and the producer was paid to recreate the original as precisely as possible. It never works right, and the fans usually regarded the records as disappointing at best and rip-offs at worst. The lion's share of returns (after defective merchandise) were by customers who were pissed that the CD they bought contained re-recordings instead of the originals.
Here's a great original recording. Here's a re-recording that's about as lame as these guys are able to be (which isn't very). The keyboardist actually wanted to use his new digital synth, but the producer forced him to use a real organ. As usual, the guitarist fought to be louder than he was in the original mix. As usual, that was a bad idea. They did get to put out their new & "improved version" as a bonus track, and it was awful.
posted by snottydick at 10:20 AM on July 6, 2012
There's an entire industry of re-recordings of this nature. I used to work for a label who sometimes made those kinds of records. The artists usually wanted to take the opportunity to "improve" upon the originals, and the producer was paid to recreate the original as precisely as possible. It never works right, and the fans usually regarded the records as disappointing at best and rip-offs at worst. The lion's share of returns (after defective merchandise) were by customers who were pissed that the CD they bought contained re-recordings instead of the originals.
Here's a great original recording. Here's a re-recording that's about as lame as these guys are able to be (which isn't very). The keyboardist actually wanted to use his new digital synth, but the producer forced him to use a real organ. As usual, the guitarist fought to be louder than he was in the original mix. As usual, that was a bad idea. They did get to put out their new & "improved version" as a bonus track, and it was awful.
posted by snottydick at 10:20 AM on July 6, 2012
That Mysterians track's a classic example of how hard it is to dupe even a very simple arrangement. You can hear the original has tons of room sound on the bass and the drums, and the organ has some thick amp distortion on it, plus the whole things has a big tape vibe going on as well. It was probably all recorded live, so there's kit spilling into the vocal mic which might be why the cymbals are so prominent, sizzling away. Plus, there's a catch in the singer's voice which isn't there on the redo, which sounds like everyone was recorded very politely in a separate, very dry, room.
Making recordings is a very strange and contingent process. One day you have it, the next you don't. It's extremely difficult to catch the vibe of an old recording, even if you played everything on it. You can play the same notes at the same speed in the same order using the same equipment and it's still different.
posted by unSane at 10:34 AM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Making recordings is a very strange and contingent process. One day you have it, the next you don't. It's extremely difficult to catch the vibe of an old recording, even if you played everything on it. You can play the same notes at the same speed in the same order using the same equipment and it's still different.
posted by unSane at 10:34 AM on July 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
That's really a great example. I find it hard to believe that you could sit anyone down for an A/B test and they'd pick the re-recording, it's so limp and frail.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:42 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Rhomboid at 10:42 AM on July 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
The artists usually wanted to take the opportunity to "improve" upon the originals
Probably the most egregious example of this I've heard is ZZ Top's butchery of Tres Hombres. I think they kept the original bass & guitar tracks, & re-recorded drums & vocals, then covered the whole mess in 80's-era gated digital reverb. Truly horrific.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:44 AM on July 6, 2012
Probably the most egregious example of this I've heard is ZZ Top's butchery of Tres Hombres. I think they kept the original bass & guitar tracks, & re-recorded drums & vocals, then covered the whole mess in 80's-era gated digital reverb. Truly horrific.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:44 AM on July 6, 2012
OK, the "re-recording" part is lame, but that second video is TOTALLY HILARIOUSLY AWESOME !!! as a video.
Also, I'm pretty sure that Question Mark is not actually from Planet Earth. Really nice guy, just . . . . . . . . .
posted by soundguy99 at 11:12 AM on July 6, 2012
Also, I'm pretty sure that Question Mark is not actually from Planet Earth. Really nice guy, just . . . . . . . . .
posted by soundguy99 at 11:12 AM on July 6, 2012
You can hear the original has tons of room sound
That "room" was a front porch of a private home. True story. It was a DIY recording that was picked up and released by increasingly bigger labels until it became a national hit.
posted by snottydick at 11:37 AM on July 6, 2012
That "room" was a front porch of a private home. True story. It was a DIY recording that was picked up and released by increasingly bigger labels until it became a national hit.
posted by snottydick at 11:37 AM on July 6, 2012
("I got somethin' to say")
That always makes me think of this guy.
posted by homunculus at 1:57 PM on July 6, 2012
That always makes me think of this guy.
posted by homunculus at 1:57 PM on July 6, 2012
Cheers, K.P.
Also, just out of curiosity, what're the 2 songs where you think the re-recorded version is better?
Ha, now I can't remember. Rather, one I just realized wasn't officially released in its original form and I'd mistaken a demo for an official, small-label release...and another...and another was an album so dramatically remixed it sounded like a ground-up re-recording (but wasn't). I think Nick Cave recycled/rerecorded an old NS or BP B-side and the second version turned out better....
posted by K.P. at 4:20 AM on July 7, 2012
Also, just out of curiosity, what're the 2 songs where you think the re-recorded version is better?
Ha, now I can't remember. Rather, one I just realized wasn't officially released in its original form and I'd mistaken a demo for an official, small-label release...and another...and another was an album so dramatically remixed it sounded like a ground-up re-recording (but wasn't). I think Nick Cave recycled/rerecorded an old NS or BP B-side and the second version turned out better....
posted by K.P. at 4:20 AM on July 7, 2012
stavrosthewonderchicken: "Note: 'blowing snowy donuts' sounds vaguely dirty, but it was not. You know, other than spilling booze and dropping cigarette ashes."
Whipping shitties?
posted by notsnot at 6:08 AM on July 7, 2012
Whipping shitties?
posted by notsnot at 6:08 AM on July 7, 2012
Note: 'blowing snowy donuts' sounds vaguely dirty, but it was not.
Reminds me of the one Letterman Top Ten list I can remember from when I was watching him 25-odd years ago... Top Ten Phrases That Sound Dirty But Aren't. #1: Wind surfing on Mount Baldy.
posted by hippybear at 10:05 AM on July 7, 2012
Reminds me of the one Letterman Top Ten list I can remember from when I was watching him 25-odd years ago... Top Ten Phrases That Sound Dirty But Aren't. #1: Wind surfing on Mount Baldy.
posted by hippybear at 10:05 AM on July 7, 2012
Apropos of nothing I realized this the other day: The Oingo Boingo album "Boingo Alive" (which is not live, just stripped down semi-live rehearsal run-throughs of their catalog) is somewhere between inexplicable and worthless as an actual musical album (though I did cherish it back in the day, when I couldn't afford to buy, like more than one album by a given band) but it must have totally been this kind of contractual dodge - they recorded it right after moving from IRS to MCA, and it heavily features their pre-MCA catalog - it was a way of exporting that catalog of tunes to their MCA deal, presumably to allow licensing without needing to access their IRS masters. Sure enough those songs did appear on hits compilations and the like in their "Alive" versions.
posted by anazgnos at 12:39 PM on July 16, 2012
posted by anazgnos at 12:39 PM on July 16, 2012
Oh man. Count me as another unrepentant Lep fan. I *really* got into them around the time Adrenalize was released (when I was... 14? Huh. Guess that's right). Something about the Adrenalize and Hysteria albums just hit me right in my musical sweet spot. It's funny, when I think back about listening to those albums before going to bed every night on my fancy portable discman, the one song that TRULY stands out in my head is White Lightning. Even listening to it now I still get a little shiver. WTF is up with that? It's not a fantastic song by any means, but when I hear that opening guitar lick, boom - I'm an introverted gawky 14 year old that is just learning about the power of sarcasm, all over again.
posted by antifuse at 8:18 AM on July 20, 2012
posted by antifuse at 8:18 AM on July 20, 2012
Oh man! And Stand Up (Kick Love Into Motion)! Totally forgot about that song. Yes, I was very much into the rock ballads back in those days.
posted by antifuse at 8:19 AM on July 20, 2012
posted by antifuse at 8:19 AM on July 20, 2012
Ack! And one last thing - when I lived in Dublin for a couple years, we lived around the corner from (what my wife said was) Joe Elliott's house. It thrilled me to no end, every time I drove past it.
posted by antifuse at 8:20 AM on July 20, 2012
posted by antifuse at 8:20 AM on July 20, 2012
« Older Maple Seed Drones are coming to a sky near you. | Disciples Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by infinitywaltz at 3:39 PM on July 5, 2012 [39 favorites]